Job Security In The Corporate World—The Writing Is On The Wall

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek with their favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and I always get a little intimidated, but I'm always really excited when our guest is like the smartest guy in the room. But before we talk about our guests, I would be remiss if I didn't properly introduce my co host, Six Sigma. Making the world a better place, one land listing at a time@landmodo.com and then also making the world a much better place because he's saving so much time. And time is money@postdomination.com TheLandGeek if you really want to see what this guy is all about, go to scott todd.net Scott Todd. How are you, Mark?

I'm great. How are you?

I'm great, I'm great. I just want to remind everybody, today's podcast is sponsored by hosting Domination.com TheLandgeek because when you can make, when you create 124 listings on Craigslist for the touch of a button and Facebook postings, there's nothing better. Postingdomnation.com land geek let's talk about our guest today. Should I put on my anchorman voice, John?

Yeah, go for it.

John Lim, Esquire, mba.

Oh, geez.

Is an entrepreneur specializing in public speaking, high impact presentations, and social digital media marketing for small businesses. John, you're a big deal. Oh, I don't know about that.

You make me sound like a bigger deal than I am, so. I love that.

I mean, you know, you're, you know, you're in the Ivy League, University of Pennsylvania. You get your JD from Georgetown Law, MBA from John Hopkins University. I mean, you're dropping the mic academically every, every second you get. And then you're like, oh, by the way, I've got a podcast moving forward. And, and you know, you happen to be a huge Star Trek fan, which is also very geeky.

Yeah, I am a big Star Trek fan. Yeah.

So tell us about, you know, your, your transformation from, you know, academia and I would assume, the corporate world into kind of doing your own thing.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you both Mark and Scott for having me. This is what I call a who me? Moment. You know, when Mark, when you invited me to be on the show, I was like, who me? And so it's an honor and a pleasure. But my background, I mean, I followed a very traditional path. I went to school, I went to law school, as you mentioned, and then I went into legal practice and, and I remember stepping into those doors thinking, oh, my gosh, am I going to do this for the next 50 years until I retire? Am I going to be doing document reviews and, you know, basically dotting I's and crossing T's for the next 50 years? And I wasn't terribly happy doing that. I think the low point for me in legal practice, when I kid you not, I had a partner call me into her office and say, I'm going to show you the best thing that's going to be the most amazing thing for your career. And she showed me how to use banker's wax so I could rifle through about 40 boxes of documents. And that's when I said to myself, okay, there's gotta be a better use of all of this schooling and all of this time that I did not.

Go through all of this just to.

Be learning how to use banker's wax. So I transitioned out of law into corporate America. I worked for a major Fortune 500 company for over a decade. And actually, I was doing a lot of fun things. I was doing sales, I was doing account management and presentations, and I had a really good time. In fact, there was a time where I could picture myself basically riding off into the sunset, collecting a pension and the 401k. And then of course, you know, there was a point, I think about four years ago where my company actually decimated about 40% of my department. I was actually one of the survivors. But I saw the writing on the wall and I said to myself, you know what? I don't know that this is. I don't want to roll the dice with this. I don't want to play musical. And so I decided to leave. I finished my mba, I was going part time, and I thought to myself, well, you know what, if I'm getting a business degree, why not take this thing out for a test drive? You know, why not become an entrepreneur? And I'd had, I think it was a professor in one of my classes who actually took time out of the class to say, I just want to take a few minutes to say this. I know a lot of you are in here, your companies are paying for you to get this degree. A lot of you are thinking of just moving up the corporate ladder. But I'm going to suggest that you really think about doing something on your own. And that's, I think, where the seed was planted in my head to think about. Well, I have all these skills that I've developed over the years, and I also love to learn. So I basically decided, all right, you know, now is the time to do it. So spring of 2014 is when I decided to make that break, and it's been a fun, bumpy ride all along the way. And as you mentioned, Mark, I mean, moving forward, the podcast has been my continuing education. I mean, you know, as incredible as the education that I've had already in school, I am learning every single week. And I just had you on, Mark, not that long ago, and I just. I'm amazed at all the wonderful people that I've connected with, and I'm continuing to learn every single day.

Yeah, I mean, it was great being on your show, and. And the questions you asked were fantastic. Scott. Todd smiling, by the way, as you're telling that story, because, I mean, he can really relate to Scott. You want to. Like, I think John might be your doppelganger. Corporate doppelganger.

He might.

Yeah.

I mean, like, you know, John, like, I spent 10 years working for a Fortune 300 company, and in my last role, I served as a VP in that company. And I was smiling as you were talking because, like, I survived a number of layoffs, Right. Like, there was a number of rounds of layoffs. And it's crazy because, like, you.

You what are.

Like, I was just, like, thinking about the emotions. Right. Like, it's always emotional when that happens because you see coworkers and you see friends that you work with on a daily basis. They're gone.

Yeah.

Riding off in the sunset to go do whatever, and then you get stuck with one more work. But two, you also get stuck with survivor's guilt because, like, man, I survived. You know, like, it literally just drains all your energy out. And, you know, I just. I was kind of, like, rethinking, rehashing, like, all of that survivor's guilt that I ever experienced in my career, and then also thinking about, like, my last day, because I, too, saw the. Right on the wall.

Yeah.

What I started doing is ice. I basically started investing like Mark does and investing in land. And so literally on my last day that I walked out, I was kind of, like, I was scared, but I was also, like, laughing because I had replaced my income through passive income.

Yeah.

You know, like, I was walking out, like, okay, it's a scary new world out there for me. It's the next chapter. But at the same time, I had replaced my income through land investing. Yeah, you bring up a lot of, like, your story brings up a lot of emotion, because I still remember, like, all those things, and I don't want to go back.

Yeah. I don't either. It feels like a lot longer ago than it was, so. Yeah.

All right. So, John, you got all this education, though. You've got this career. You know, I've got a probably amazing resume. Are you. Are you married?

No. No, I know I'm not. Not yet.

All right. All right. So.

All right.

Now, in 2014, were your parents kind of involved in your life at that time?

Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm. You know, my. My. My. My mom actually, unfortunately passed away a couple of years ago. But both of my parents were entrepreneurs, and my dad is still a really fantastic entrepreneur. He's actually one of my mentors. You know, you know, obviously he was a great dad, but he's now become something of a. To me, and he's been a serial entrepreneur for many, many years. And I've learned so much, actually, just, you know, working with him and spending time with him in addition to all the other things that I'm doing. So he's been great. And he was the one who's, all along the way, was saying, you know what? Think about doing something on your own. You know, I know you've got a great career, you've got a great education. And he was someone who, you know, basically has been on his own since he was a teenager, and. And to see what he's been able to do, you know, what my parents were able to do. They came to this country in 1970 and to basically less than $200 and to build up a really successful business that, you know, that gave me an incredible life. That's something that I take to heart every single day now.

Wow. I mean, can you describe that conversation when you first mentioned your dad, that you wanted to drop this potentially very lucrative career and start your own thing?

Yeah. Well, you know, it's funny, Mark, that conversation happened over a series of conversations long before I actually turned in my notice. So he had known all along that that was part of the plan for me. And so one of the things that he did was he actually worked with me to make sure that I had systems in place so that I could actually make that leap. So, you know, he worked with me and made sure that I had some investments in place so that when I did make that leap, I wasn't simply just leaving without a plan. So that's one of the things I credit him with, actually. He's the type of guy who always does something with a plan. And for me, I'm a little more impulsive. I'm the guy who wants to go. I just want to leave now. And he's like, no, no, think about this. Make sure you do this smartly. And we actually had many different conversations and meetings and stuff over a period of a year and a half. So he knew it was coming. And by the time I made the decision, it was already actually in the plan.

I love it.

I love it. Best advice your dad has given you since you started your entrepreneurial journey.

Yes. One of the things that my dad has instilled in me throughout is to live below your means, you know, no matter what you're, you know. And this, this held true when I was making the high six figure salary in the Fortune 500. He said, Live below your means. And really I learned from him the difference between a want and a need. Do you really? I mean, is this something that you really need or is this something that you want? And it's something that has definitely carried me through over the last couple of years, but I think that's probably the most valuable lesson that I've learned from him. And I remember from a young age he always taught me, it's not how much you make, it's how much you spend. And that was probably the most. I mean, he just kind of drilled that into my head over and over and over. So no matter what job I've had, no matter what place I've been in my career, he's always reminded me of that, and that has been incredibly valuable for me.

Yeah. Scott. Todd, what about, what do you think of that? I mean, you know, as far as, you know, amazing advice.

Yeah, I mean, I think it is good advice because, I mean, Mark, like you and I, we had, in a prior podcast, we had somebody on that's like living like their, their cost of living is like really, really low. Like, I don't know, twelve hundred dollars a month or something. Right, right. And so the lower that cost of living, the lower it is or the easier it is for you to find the freedom that you want. I mean, like, you know, there's not necessarily this number that defines wealth. Right. You know, because as we all know, you know, you can make a million dollars a year, and your expenses could be like, you know, $950,000 a year. You're not, you're not wealthy, you can't, sir, you can't survive that way, but you can take and lower the expenses to create a quality life that you want, and then you can easily get to the freedom that you want.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, John, don't you feel like in our world, the podcast world, and Entrepreneurial journeys and, you know, these people that have done amazing things and successful, that the part about living below your means kind of doesn't get talked about enough. Right. And I think it's really important because, I mean, I'm going to ask you if we, if you know, as far as, like, everything in your life, what do you think is it that makes you the most happy?

Yeah, no, that's a great question, Mark. I think, you know, I'm not going to. I'm not going to shy away from this. I think having very little debt has definitely been a factor in being happy. You know, obviously I am fulfilled by what a lot of people are fulfilled, by having meaningful relationships, family. But I don't discount the fact that having very little debt is huge. I mean, not having that burden. And I know a lot of people who make a lot of money but carry a lot of debt. They have a lifestyle that they can't bankroll or that they're constantly living paycheck to paycheck, and it's stressful. And I see that. And I say to myself, I really don't want to have that kind of stress. So for me, just having a level of freedom, I think is very much synonymous with being happy or at least being on the path to being happy.

Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think for me it's about working when I want, where I want, with whom I want. So this total freedom and this total feel, I mean, I don't always have total control. I mean, you know, I can tell you right now, like, just this morning getting my kids off to camp, I had very little control, right? So that, you know, that kind of ebbs and flows. But as far as, like, in my work life, that feeling of total control is amazing. But I agree, like, not having the stress of, you know, financial debt or, you know, creating this huge treadmill I think is really, really can increase a lot of people's happiness. Scott Todd, what about you?

You know, Mark, yesterday, yesterday was Monday. And I'm trying to be like you and take Mondays and Fridays off.

Right?

Like, and so yesterday, literally I spent the entire day not working on my business. And I did have a little bit of guilt associated with that, right? Like, I had a little bit of a guilt, but I was able to come back in the evening and spend a few hours to satisfy my own guilt. Right. I think beyond that, you know, I think that being, being able to do the work that you want, when you work, want without having to necessarily answer to people, you know, and deadlines and Demands is really a good feeling. You know, like if I was an attorney, yeah, I could be self employed and you know, I could be an attorney and I could be doing my own work. But the reality is, is that I'm going to be having clients call me. I never know when they're going to call me. I've got to respond back to them. I got to email them. I got to. I have all of these people controlling my time. And I think that you can literally create a lifestyle where you can control your own time, you know, like, I don't. I still have people email me, I still have people calling me. It doesn't mean that I have to respond to them when they call. You know, Mark, you always like to say there's no land emergencies and there's not.

Right.

You know, so literally nothing is as important right now that commands attention and drop everything. In my corporate world, that was not the case, man. Like, because, you know, like the computer systems would break down. It was a, it was an emergency, right? Like, you know, it was all hands on deck and it could come, could come at any time, day or night. So you didn't know when it was going to come. It's like being a firefighter. Forget it, I'm out.

That's another thing, Scott, I don't miss about the corporate world are all the cliches. Like I would literally get emails that say all hands on deck. And I decided to like, resist. Is this the impulse to type? When were you in the Navy?

John? John. Okay, Mark, I'm steal the show for a minute because one of the things that absolutely drives me insane and always did was when, when someone new would show up to work and they'd say, welcome aboard. And I'm like, I wish this was a ship. This is not a ship. If it is, it's like a slave ship. But it's not. It is not. You know, this is not a, this is not a cruise liner. Welcome aboard. Forget it, man.

Yeah.

What are they doing with it?

You know, this conversation kind of reminds me of one of the best personal finance books I've ever read. It's called you'd money or your life. Have you read that, John?

No, I haven't.

Oh my gosh. I mean, he was like, sort of like one of the pioneers of the minimalist movement and saying, get to the point where your passive income exceeds your fixed expenses. So you're working because you want to, not because you have to. And kind of walks everybody through that and you know, the perils of debt and you know, really asking the really three critical value based questions about stuff.

Right.

I mean, is this really going to make me happy or is this ultimately going to make me miserable? Right. Because of all the stress involved and really kind of, you know, figuring out your hourly rate and it's just really interesting book. Great book.

I'll have to check that out. I'm always looking for good ones to add, so I'll definitely put that on the list.

Yeah, I mean, speaking of books, John, this is a very, you know, Tim Ferriss like question, most gifted or recommended books.

Okay. I just, I have to say this one, I just recently read Jab Jab Jab Right Hook by Gary Vaynerchuk. I loved that book because I have, you know, as an entrepreneur, it's inevitable. You have to have some social media presence. And, and when I was in the corporate world, I didn't really. I was a very casual Facebook user. I had a LinkedIn profile. But as an entrepreneur, I'm on these platforms every single day. And over the past year I've been learning Twitter, which is a whole different language if you're a Gen Xer. It's not one you take to naturally. And Gary V's book was really great about just kind of breaking down the language of each social media platform. I really like that one. And he gives great examples, lots of pictures, which is also helpful, you know, just showing like successful examples of effective uses of social media. So that one I definitely recommend.

Okay, great. What are some of the worst advice that you, you kind of, you know, see or hear given in your digital marketing expertise?

The worst advice that I think I see, and it's not even so much advice, it's just what I see people doing is that I see people pushing a little too hard, you know, when they're trying to sell a product, when they're trying to sell a platform. And I think it's just the nature of someone just being very passionate about their product or platform. I even have friends who, who I know that they give a great service where they have a great product, but when they're posting on social media, it's always here, check out this product, or here, check out my service. As opposed to learning the art of like anything else, you know, you have to develop a relationship, get into conversations and really get to know people. I mean, that's, that's kind of the thing about social media. It's, it's no different than the way business used to be, where you would have to get to know someone before you would Talk about. And having worked in sales, you don't go for the. You don't go for the pitch right away. There's a lot of. There's an art to building that relationship, having that conversation, getting to know the person. And social media, it's one of those things where you feel like, well, I should just promote myself or I should just pitch my product or service. But social media really is all about getting to know people and being transparent yourself. So I think that's probably the biggest mistake that I see a lot of people make.

Yeah, I have to correct Scott Todd every day because all he does is post posting domination.com landgeek list your properties on Land Moto.

I don't do that.

Nothing educational, nothing helpful. I'm being completely facetious because I think. I think Scott does it completely the way you should do it. Where he leads with, how can I help you? How can I help you? How can I help you? Did you know this? Here's a great tip. Oh, and by the way, you know, check this out. This is what I'm doing. Yeah, yeah.

There's a way to do it. There's a way to do it so that you can lead people back to your website, so you can lead them to sign up for your mail list. It's just, it's. It's an art, you know, it's. And someone actually explained it to me this way. If you're going out on a date and a first date and all you do is talk about yourself and you don't talk about the girl you're with and you don't ask her questions, she's going to be turned off pretty quickly. So, you know, I kind of like. And I love that analogy. And it just kind of makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

John, you got that from posting Domination? Because that's in one of my modules.

Oh, is it? I actually got that from one of my recent guests. It just kind of stuck with me from posting. Yeah, they probably did.

Who that is. That is a module where I talk about the fact that, you know, like when. If you're trying to go on a first date or if you've been on a first date, you know, like, you can't. You can't tell your whole life story and expect a second date. I mean, like, you could tell your whole life story and then that's the end. Because, I mean, you could. You know, that's it. No one does that.

You leave.

You leave mystery. You leave mystique. You know, you. You leave Reason for engagement. And that's the way that, like, I approach my marketing, too, is I will, like, you know, like, I'll put something there, but I'll leave stuff out so that I get the person asking me questions.

Right.

And, you know, Mark, we haven't really talked about this, but a great, you know, a great thing is, like, the 12 steps of intimacy. Anybody can Google that. Right. And you can try to. You can try to shorten that intimacy cycle and go from, like, you know, eye to eye, you know, all the way to, you know, intercourse, if you will. You can. You can compress and compress that all into, like, one event, but the relationship probably isn't going to last. Like. Right, okay. But if you. If you do it over time, if you drip it over time and then you. You build to that piece, well, then you're gonna have a much more solid relationship. And that's the way that. That's like my take on marketing and sales, too. Right. It's the same thing, what you're saying.

You know, I just googled it because I've never heard that. Scott. The 12 Stages of Business Intimacy. Dan Bradbury, 12 Stages of Intimacy. Noble choices. Which one do I want to look at?

Look at, look at the. Okay, so the history of this is James Dobson. I think it's James. No, no, no, it's not James Dobson. It's.

Oh, Dr. James Dobson's 12 Steps of Intimacy.

Well, there was a. Hold on. Let me look it up, because zoom.

All right, let's get back to John.

Go ahead. I'll research it.

All right.

John's like, by the way, am I on this podcast?

I'm interested in this, too. I'll probably take a look at that after the interview. So.

All right, so, John, before we get to your tip of the week, I'm going to ask you one more question.

Sure.

I mean, I've got one more question, but one more. What one thing would you most like to change about yourself or improve on as of today?

Oh, wow. I would probably say, I think Scott touched on this earlier, and I think this is just a habit that is hard to break when you come from corporate America, is not answering those emails when they first pop up. I'm just naturally tied to my phone anyway. And so when those messages pop up, I am inclined to want to reply. And I've gotten better at this and just prioritizing my time so that I'm not always being reactive. I'm being more proactive about what I need to do and then allocating the Time as I need to, to respond to messages. So I think when you're in corporate America, you're just so used to that Pavlovian reaction, as soon as you hear that email ding, you just respond right away. And that's. That's a habit I'm still trying to break.

I mean, I have the same problem. I'm like a drug addict with my phone.

It's.

I mean. And actually I, you know, I read that book Deep Work by Cal Newport. And then at the end, like, he's like, Like, I would do this. I'd be like, at 5 o', clock, he's like, okay, commencing shutdown. And for a few weeks, this worked. And then suddenly I. Like an alcoholic. I regressed or, you know, and now I'm back to, like, you know, constantly checking email. But I'm actually, you know what? As of today, I am getting a little bit better. I'm trying to get back to, like, just checking it. 10 and 4.

Right.

But, you know, I get excited sometimes with my emails.

Yeah, I do too. You know, there's that.

Yeah, you know, it's like, it's like a, like, you know, pulling a slot machine, like, oh, good one. You know, so, yeah, Scott, what's. What's on your mind there? I could see you're about to say something. Well, you're on mute.

I wish I could commence shutdown and. But I can't. Like, I'd love to say that I only check email twice a day. I can't do that. Like, I try, I try, but the only way I do it, Mark, is to, like, get rid of my glasses and go on the boat train them for sunglasses.

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think we gotta. You know what, Scott? You and I need to, like, actually motivate each other to do this. And, you know, I'll tell you what, we're gonna make like a, Like a little side thing to make each other stick to it. So if I don't. If I check email more than twice a day. Okay, I've got to buy you the latest drone from Matic. Right? Thousand dollars. Okay. If you check email more than twice a day for the next week, you've got to buy me that mini drone you just got, which is like a thousand dollars. Okay, you're not saying. Okay, I know for sure you're not.

Body language. I guess. I guess it's like a gentleman's agreement, right? Like, oh, no, I only checked it twice a day. But, you know.

Well, I would be completely honest about it. I would too.

Absolutely.

I mean, I might as well write you the check right now because I'm just not mentally there. John, could you do it?

No.

But for $1,000, John, you might be able to maybe. I don't know, maybe. 5,000. John, you want to get in on this action? 5,000. If you check twice a day. Twice a day.

Wow. Wow.

I would just delete it from my phone is what I would do.

Yeah, I'd have to turn off the notifications.

Well, I've got notifications turned off. I still like a habit. I still check it. I hit my mail, I hit it. I hit the app, and I still find it. I look for it and I do it.

Wow.

I've done all of it. Yeah, that's a. John, would you. We want to do it. Five grand.

I. For how long? How long are we talking about here?

Well, you know, it'd have to be like, I think it takes 30 days to develop a habit, right?

Yeah, it really does.

So let's do 30 days. 30 days, Scott, you want to do it for 30 days? I have a huge advantage, by the way, because I'm going on vacation.

Oh, geez.

Oh, man.

All right, we'll talk about this later. All right, John, let's get into your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go right now. Improve their businesses, improve their lives, improve. What have you got?

I've got two, if you don't mind my sharing.

Two. You can even go three.

One is a website housekeeping practice that I'm surprised I see a lot of big websites aren't even doing this yet is to make sure that you update your website to SSL protocol HTTPs. Google has started flagging with a scarlet I, a scarlet letter I on websites that don't have that. That's letting people know that it's unsecured. So having that HTTPs protoc will not only make it more secure and give that peace of mind to your user, but Google will also, I think, rank it higher for SEO purposes. So it's worth doing just. And almost every website host provider, whether it's Bluehost, GoDaddy, Weebly, Wix, whatever, they will have that option. It's either free or low cost to upgrade it to HTTPs protocol. The other one I have is a social media share. We were talking earlier about just building relationships, showing value. And I do this every time I share out a PODC episode where a blog is that I use a service called sniply. Oh, I love Ly. Yeah. And what's great about it is that you can create call to action tags on your posts and things, and you can even use it on some news websites and articles. Not all of them, but some of them. If you're posting an article of interest, you can post a call to action, such as, hey, check out this blog post if you're interested in learning more or listen to this podcast. So I love Sniply. I think it's. It's really great. It's a great way to kind of draw in your users and your. Your user base or whoever's looking at your content and engage and further develop that relationship.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Great. Tips of the week, Scott. Todd, what's your tip of the week question?

Does the sniply. Does that. Just add them to my mike. My email list, too.

You can. You can actually. I mean, what it does is it just creates a call to action button, and a little flag will pop up at the bottom where you can have them actually go to your website and then. Or you can have them go to a landing page. So if you have a landing page for something. So it's one of those things, it's just an invitation or like your Facebook page or your follow you on Twitter. So basically you just create a call to action button and you can lead them anywhere you need to.

Nice.

Nice.

All right, Mark, my tip of the week is very simple. Look, do yourself a favor and just Google 12 stages of intimacy. You don't have to buy a book. Just. Just Google it. And you want to look for any reference to Desmond Moore. Okay? Morris. Desmond Morris. He's the guy that actually created it. He was a. Or is.

I don't know.

I think he was a zoologist. And the cool thing about him is that, like, instead of studying, like, regular animals, he decided to study humans. I think this was back in the 70s. And he basically came up with the 12 stages of intimacy. And if you did read the book, I think the book's name is Intimate Behavior. Yeah, it's Intimate to behavior from 1971. If you did read the book, he would basically say exactly what I kind of said earlier, which is you can compress time and move through these 12 stages very quickly. And the first stage is like, eye to body. Basically, you notice the person that you're interested in. You can compress all of these things into, like, literally, like, you know, hours, which probably is not a good thing to do, or you can build it over time, but every solid relationship has all 12 of these and you can skip. So, like, you don't have to go from, like, you know, I think one of them is hand to hand to hand and then, like, hand to shoulder. You don't necessarily have to go from, like, hand to hand to hand to shoulder. You could go from hand to hand to hand away. So you could skip the hand to shoulder and still be okay.

But.

But if you tried to go from number one to number 12, you might be. Might be successful, but it won't be a successful relationship.

All right, I love it. I love it. My tip of the week is learn more about john lim@be movingforward.com be.

Moving.

Forward.Com the podcast is phenomenal. We haven't even gotten to what the coloring book is.

Yeah, well, the coloring book, actually calling back to those corporate cliches, we decided, my partners and I, we decided to take our most annoying corporate cliches and turn them into a coloring book. So we've done that, and that's available on the website where you can go straight to Amazon.

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Thank you.