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Okay, we are back. We are live with Russ and Joey. Russ Morgan, Joey Murray, Wealth Without Wall street, the infinite banking concept. For those of you that were just on, my apologies. I figured out the mic issue, so don't be shy. Come on back on Leave a comment. Remember, if you do leave a comment, you are in the drawing for the $1,997 investors toolkit. Already have the toolkit. You can gift it to a friend. Don't have a friend to gift it to. Bank it. Use it for flight school. Already in flight school. Use it for coaching. In coaching. Use it for software. Either way, you're going to get that $1,997 value. Either way. So everybody says it's much better. Thank you, Racine. Bill Dickens. Thank you, Don. Thank you, Derek Hoffman. Thank you. We fixed it. We appreciate you guys being on live. And let's learn how infinite banking and that concept can be used for our land investing business. So take two with wealthwithoutwallstreet.com Russ and Joey.

Thank you. Thank you, Mark, for not taking a shower during the call today. That was. That was not good. Okay, Mark, I hope you're going to play quarterback with questions because we're not going to be able to see them on our end. At least I can't see him. Joey, you may be able to.

Nope.

But I totally, I totally want to, like, make this as interactive as possible, but considering I can't see questions and I can't hear you, it's going to be hard. It's just going to be kind of like my average day where I talk all the time and Joey listens.

Business as usual. Got it.

Business as usual. All right. So one of the things I love about what we're, what we're talking about, Dave, Mark, is the. Your community loves processes. They love real assets, they love efficiency. And that's just lines right up with what we do. I mean, we are totally in line when it comes to being weird, right? Because we talk about using dividend paying life insurance contracts as our place that we store cash. But also at the same time, it's. We're doing it not because of how sexy and attractive it is, because if everything had to be sexy and attractive, we wouldn't be on this call. Right. We wouldn't be talking about land flipping or dividend paying life insurance. Neither one of those are something that's going to usually draw a crowd on the surface. But I do think there's a lot that we do together that are really similar. And it's going to help us. So, Stallion, one of the things that you and I share a little bit at the boot camp I think is worthwhile for us to talk about today is cash is inefficient. Now, Mark, when I say cash is inefficient, before you and I had that discussion at boot camp, did you believe that I. That that term or that was accurate?

I mean, you know, I did believe it in the sense that I personally don't want cash sitting in my bank account at 0%. So I want, I want to use, I want to have my cash working for me, making higher interest. But when you said. But that's how I thought of it, as inefficient. But I think you think of it as a different way.

Well, so there. You know, Joey and I commonly asked this question, when would you ever want to stop compounding interest on your money?

Never.

Never. All right. But I'm going to make a definitive statement right now. As you're listening to us talk about this, you are violating that on a daily basis. There's very few things that you can be definitive about, but this is one of them.

Yeah, no, I know. And that's why it was so depressing at boot camp.

Well, so if you weren't at boot camp and you didn't get to hear us kind of go through this, Joey, showing you kind of a compounding curve, right? It's this slow, methodical approach to ultimately a hockey stick type result where we're growing money steadily over time and it continues to just compound on itself. But when I say that cash is inefficient and you violate the premise of compounding interest on your money, we love to show it very simply as no matter what it was, whether it was to buy the first piece of land that you bought, the first car you saved up to pay cash for, if it was lunch today, we stored cash somewhere in our checking accounts. We got enough in there, and then what do we do? We spent it. And a visual of that, Joey, is if you own that little compounding curve there, if you showed somebody saving and then all of a sudden stopping the growth on that curve, now they have to start a new compounding curve on that money, Whether it was a dollar 100, 100,000, a million dollars. And when you think of the way we go about in life is that every time we postpone that curve, it's impacting our ability to buy one more piece of land that much further from us getting to our ultimate goal. Because really, the reason that we're even on this call is because we have a same mission in mind is that we want to be financially free.

That's right.

I mean it's all about creating financial freedom, which is when we have more passive income than when we have monthly expenses. So I know, Mark, you have lots of land flippers and they all come from different objectives. You have some that are just retirees that man, this is just a fulfilling way to spend their time. They just enjoy it. You have some people who are doing it just to create a little bit of side cash and you have some that are doing it because we've talked to them at your boot camps and in flight school and they said I got to get out of my soul crushing job and this is my way out.

Yeah, absolutely.

When I think about why we're talking about, you know, compounding interest and why we're talking about how cash is inefficient is that every, every misstep we have or every mistake we make is prolonging us from getting to our ultimate objective, our ultimate destination. What do you say to that, Stallion?

I concur. I concur with that. Yeah. I mean, basically, here's the thing about it. Infinite banking, if it wasn't helping you to enhance what you're already doing, you shouldn't do it. Bottom line, who wants to talk about savings? Unless the savings allows you to do more of what you need to do so that you can move that date from sometime in the future to sometime closer to today. That's really what this is all about.

Alright, so let's kind of start, you know, getting closer. I always like to use the word diving in. Joey makes fun of me, Mark, for, for saying that. So I'm going to try to avoid ever saying that again. Today.

You got your diving in quota taken care of.

I'm on the lake, right. So I mean, I'm always thinking about diving in. Yeah, Speaking of that, like entrepreneurs, we are great at coming up with ideas, following a process, you know, like going after something hard. We're great at making money, but there's a couple of the things we're bad at and one of them that comes to mind is keeping money. Would you agree with that, Mark, as you have been around entrepreneurs the last 20 years, that typically people are great at making money, but not so great at keeping it?

I mean, sadly, I had to write a whole part of my book about my journey of having literally Parkinson's Law of money where the more I made, the more I spent. So nothing better than being able to rewind the tape and think about licking those wounds again, Russ.

Well, I mean, I don't really want to take you back to 2010, but you had gotten to a point where you were really successful in your land business, had lots of lifestyle, you know, to lots of things you had accumulated. Right, Right. But when the income stopped coming things. And you've been very transparent in that there was some trouble, right?

Yeah, no, absolutely. I had to systematically cut, cut, cut, cut. And going through was very, very difficult on me, on my family, my very fragile ego.

But what was the. What do you think outside of obviously accumulating lots of things that was sucking up a lot of that income. But what was one big fatal flaw, I've heard you tell us before, big fatal flaw that you didn't do, that ultimately created that demise?

I didn't save. I didn't save.

And I think that's a very common flaw that we have as entrepreneurs, is that we're great at making money, but we're terrible at. At keeping it. And I. I think that this is, you know, when we. When we can conquer Parkinson's law, when we can conquer the ability to not spend every dollar we make, and we say, okay, I'm going to make tons of money in this land business. I mean, we. You know, we were interviewing one of your students, a client of ours, Sid Christensen, the other day, and he was talking about a 72% yield. That's what every deal he does. That's. If he can't get that, he moves on. And he's been very successful over the last 12 months of getting a 72% yield. Well, if you can get 72% on your money, all you need to have is a very safe place to take your emergency money, your opportunity money. We had a guy that we worked with, called it his Armageddon fund. Right. You just need a very safe place to stick money. And so what people do is they say, okay, once they get to that point, they start to stick their safe cash. Where?

In the bank.

In the bank. And they think that makes sense. And I'm going to tell you, unfortunately, that's a terrible place to put your money. I mean, think about it. Where do banks put their money, Mark?

Do you know? Insurance contracts.

Now, you know that answer, but nobody else knows that. So we put our money in banks, and banks put their money in insurance contracts. Now, don't take my word for it. Stallion and I took a little liberty right before the show to go to the Bank's websites, to fdic.gov and you can do.

Can everybody see this, by the way?

Yeah, I, I have it so that you're full screen, Joey.

Okay, perfect. So when you scroll down and you see where did the banks put their cash, you're going to see what it's like, line 41 or something like that. You're going to get to see their cash. And who are we looking at, Joy? Is this Wells Fargo?

Wells Fargo, this is.

Well, I can't see your number, so you're gonna have to call.

It's 18, 9. 99. So $19 billion.

Yeah, that. That's billion with a B. Now, we looked up another big bank.

Who was that?

Bank of America.

That's right.

Yep.

How much money, how much money did they put in having cash and life insurance?

Same line is 22.5.

So, yeah, there's $2.22.5 billion. So we take our cash and we stick it in banks. Banks take their cash and they put it in life insurance contracts. Like, if that doesn't right now grab you and say, okay, attention, I understand. Now, while we're talking about life insurance, you can, you can turn off the Facebook Live because get. Get you excited to say, I need to know more. I can promise you the Stallion and I are not going to wow you any more than that. And that's what got my attention, Mark, is that when somebody showed me those numbers and they said, you can't outsmart the smartest institutions right? Now, we may hate banks as a whole, but we know that they are pretty successful when it comes to money and how we should probably emulate some of those things. So we look at that and we say, can our dollars, can we create some of those same efficiencies? Because ultimately if we don't, inflation is going to eat us up. Now, I use that word, inflation, and I don't know, not everybody thinks about inflation the way I do. So I come from Alabama, and I got a lot of sayings that were passed down, and one of those was, inflation is like termites in your wallet. It is literally just eroding the purchasing power on a daily basis. But the true economic definition of inflation is the increase of the money supply. Now, Mark, we're in the middle of 2020, COVID 19. And over the last month and a half, do you have any idea how much money the government has injected into the system that didn't exist before?

I want to say it's in the trillions.

Yeah, it's like $5 trillion.

Yeah. It's insane.

So. And that boggles the mind of a lot of people, they don't even understand what that means. But I do this exercise with my kids sometimes and I will say, let me just pretend, Mark, that I came and gave you a million dollars today. That'd be one of your better days, wouldn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

But if you called Scott, Todd, you called Tate, you called Boss, me, called Zaino, Mimi, dawn, and, and all sudden you realized that in the world got a million dollar check, what's happened?

The value of that million isn't a million anymore.

Well, one, nothing's happened. Right. Except the value of the million dollars is worth a lot less.

Right.

And the reason that's important is because we're talking about entrepreneurs. We, we got to find a way to save money. Because if, if we don't, we're going to run into these crisis. We had one in 2001, we had one in 2008, we're having one now. We're going to run into one in seven to ten years from now. I don't know what it's going to be, but we're going to have one. We better have some emergency money. We better have an Armageddon fund, whatever it is, to fall back on when our land payments are not coming in to, to wait till, you know, we go back through and sell them to somebody else who can make the payments. So we better have some, some funds of dollars to make that happen. But if we're sticking it in a checking account or a savings account, that inflation that we were just talking about is going to start eating away. Stallion, you got a calculator? I want to share with everybody. So if you think about it like this, Mark, if I, if I'm putting money in a, in a, in a checking account, Sally, just. We do a new one of these. I want to just show what is, I don't care what if it's 25,000, 50,000, 100,000, whatever, however much money we have and just do 30 years from now you can do 25,000 is fine.

Present value.

Yeah, just put 25,000 in account. And let's just say we could earn 1% on our savings account. So this is money that we're just sticking away for the future.

Right?

I can't see the numbers. You can, you can see the numbers. It's $33,000. Right. But Mark, what do you think inflation is going up at or is going to be going up over the next 30 years, given the fact that our country just injected another $5 trillion that didn't exist Before, I honestly can't even.

Speculate what I don't know. I know Ray Dalio, the billionaire hedge fund manager at Bridgewater, is very worried about it.

All right, but give us a percentage.

Let's say. Let's say 5%.

Okay, 5%. All right, so, Joey, what is one minus 5%?

I'm gonna go with negative four.

Okay, so if we were earning 1% of our savings account, but inflation, inflation is going up at 5, then this is the picture of what's happening to the 25 grand you just put in that account.

Wow, that's 7346. Yeah.

If you put money in account, a savings account and you saw the value start going down every single day, what would that do to your thought process, Mark?

Yeah, I'd get, you know, on some type of antidepressant right away and stop putting money in the bank.

But see, that's the thing, is that here's the thing most people don't understand about the reason the federal government prints money is they truly are trying to get us not to save. Because it shows right here. For us who see these numbers, they realize our money is losing value and putting in the bank is not a good idea. But yet we're using land flipping to create income streams that are earning us 10, 20, 30, 72%. But we still need to put it somewhere. So I hope you're following where we're going here. It's that we need to have savings. Savings is vital. But at the same time, the way that we have been taught to save in the banks is an inefficient process. Cash is inefficient. Saving in banks is even less efficient. And we showed you a second ago, if you follow the money, because that's all I always say, follow the money. You follow where the banks put it. They put it in life insurance. And so that's what led us to this whole discussion today was to talk about infinite banking. And infinite banking is nothing more than the process of using life insurance as a tool to not only be a savings place for us, but also be a place that can enhance our return. All right, so I'm going to take a breath here. I'm gonna let you catch up, man.

Thank you. Everybody's just really begging for it. So I appreciate you doing that. So, but here's the thing, Russ. Everybody that hears this, they say, man, I've heard of life insurance. I have a brother in law that sells life insurance. I have a cousin that sold it for 30 minutes. I mean, the bottom Line is life insurance on the outs. Like what everybody knows about life insurance. This, this doesn't make sense. Why would a bank be money in the life insurance that I've seen before? And that begs the question of they must be doing something different. So I think we need to dive into that. Not to say dive in, but yeah.

See, now we can make that. So I think that that's really interesting because Mark, when Joey and I were talking, you know, after we had heard you go through land flipping for the second time and it caught our attention the first time it just kind of blew through. The second time we did the interview with you, it was like, okay, we got it, we got to get into this. Like there's a lot more to this story. And I, and I started kind of thinking though, my, my seven year old son plays baseball with a kid whose dad is a land broker. He buys and sells land. The guy that I used to buy the property. So my family owns 30 acres here outside of Birmingham. That guy was a land broker. Another mutual friend of Joey and I is a land broker. Now I've known people who buy and sell land for a long, long time, but I never got interested in land flipping until we had a conversation with you. Now why do you think I didn't get interested in land flipping and already having personal relationships with people who bought.

And sold land, you probably had some preconceived notion about raw land.

Well, I had preconceived notions. But do you think that they bought and sold land the same way you do it?

Yeah. No. No, they don't.

Yeah, not a chance. Right. And so I think that's a good point that you bring up Stallion, is that we all know someone who is in the financial industry. We all know someone who sells life insurance. And so when you say why is it that the banks are doing something differently than what we have been exposed to? It's no different than you probably have met somebody before in your, in your walk, you know, around is that you probably met somebody who was a land broker. But they didn't know what Mark knows. They didn't know what bossman knows. They were doing it differently. And that's kind of what we figured out is when we started, you know, digging into this, almost said dive, we started digging into this, is that the insurance companies sell what they sell, a death benefit. But as investors, as someone who wants to create savings, what do we want? Do we want cash or do we want death benefit? What's more important to you, Mark?

Well, cash, it's Cash.

It's cash. Every day that you walk this earth is cash, right? Because until the last day, you will still have a need for cash in some fashion or another. And so what we have found is that everybody else, the other land brokers, if you will, the other insurance groups out there, what are they doing? They're selling a death benefit. And so they literally go out the Walmart shopper in them and they spend as little money as they possibly can to get the largest death benefit they possibly can. And that's the way they operate. So when we have heard about life insurance, we've seen life insurance, we wondered why, you know, anybody would ever talk about putting money in life insurance. We go, that's stupid, because this is the way we've always been taught to think about it. But yet the banks, they don't do that. The banks don't put $22 billion in life insurance. They're trying to buy cash. And so what they do is they literally. There's a max, I don't know, most people don't know this, but there's actually a maximum amount of cash that you can put in a life insurance policy without the government treating it as a taxable event. So the government knows that this stuff's too good, so they put a cap on it. And that's kind of what that line is up there. And if you can imagine drawing a line from the very bottom, the minimum, all the way to the top, and saying, I want to put as much cash into this insurance policy as I possibly can while having the smallest death benefit that the government will allow me to have and it not be a taxable event, that's exactly what the banking institutions, the large corporations, the wealthy. And then Joey and I, right, I mean, that's what we're doing, right? We are literally saving money as just a savings tool. And it's nothing sexy. Our cash value life insurance policies go up every single day. They've gone up every day during this pandemic, and they continue to go up. Joey, I want to share something. Will you share? So I bought a policy, my first policy, Mark, in 2010, January 2010. And I think this is relevant for our discussion today. And I don't want anybody to laugh at my little insurance policy, right? Because 10 years ago I didn't have near the foresight I have today. And I bought this insurance policy and I was initially putting $25,000 a year into it. And that was a lot of money. 10 years ago, 25 grand. I'm telling you, I took A deep swallow when I signed that first check. But here's the deal. I look at this policy 10 years past and this is the statement. 10 years into this policy, my 25,000, I no longer, unfortunately. And we can. This is a whole new discussion for a whole nother day. But I can only put in $6,7195 into this policy because when I was short.

Did you see that on here, by the way?

Yeah.

Let me move this under the premium.

Yeah.

Okay.

I was short sighted and I thought I only want to put the 25 grand in for six years and then I want to put in as little as I can after that. I didn't understand what I know today. Right. So make fun of me, that's fine. But I'm putting in 71, 95. That's what my premium was every year since the sixth year. Now look over there at what my cash value increase was, Mark, for this past 12 months. Can you see it?

14,800, 209.

Okay, so how did I do in relationship to inflation? I put it. I put 71. And let's just simplify it. I put a dollar into my savings account. How much did my dollar grow by that year?

Seven times. Wait, double?

Yeah, double.

You.

Yeah, right. I didn't realize there'd be math involved today.

Well, I just thought you could do the 7 and 14. In the south we get 7 and 14, 21, 28, 35. I mean we're in the football, you know, capital here. So like I can count my seventh all day long. Now I am an Auburn fan, so once you get past 56, we quit counting because that doesn't exist. But, but you get the point, right? Yeah, so, but, but when you look at this, all I did is I put a dollar in a savings account. But did I use that dollar to go do things with. Do I have a loan on their stallion?

Yeah. Outstanding loan is 110,575.

I have $110,000 loan against that. Now that, that loan is for all different types of businesses, real estate, some in the land flipping business, I mean, you name it. And those dollars are doing whatever those dollars are doing, whether they're earning 5% or 50% or that one cattle deal Joey and I did is still losing money. But I'll digress out of that. But the return of those things does not impact my cash values growth. Because inside of this insurance policy, if we go back, Joey, to your. To the original hockey stick compounding interest curve, is that my money in this Insurance policy continues to grow every single day as long as I live, no matter what I do with it. So instead of doing what we showed here, taking money out and having to start the compounding curve again, Joey, show what really is happening with an insurance policy. All right, I'm giving Joey all the hard jobs, right?

Yeah, I wish you gave Joey the math.

Well, so there's my insurance policy, the green line. And as I take a loan against it to go, you know, say, buy a piece of property, and as the cash flow starts coming back, I put it back in. I take a loan out against it again, as the cash flow comes back, I put it back in. I just continue to use the money. But does it impact the compounding on my money?

No, it's continuous.

And that's important because when you look at what the cost of what using your own cash does. Mark, and we did this the other day, so Joe, you can go back to the calculator. This is something we did at the boot camp and we showed this really basic example that we all would resonate with is that.

Watch this again.

This. I'm just going to say you've been successful, you're in your land business. You've been doing it for four or five years. Let's just assume you started with 25,000. Add a zero, subtract a zero, doesn't matter, right? But okay, we're years, say six. We've been in the business for a while. I can't see how much money we got year six. We got 62,000. 62,000. Okay. We got some money, some value built up in our land business. And I'm only using a 20% return. I'm not using SID, 72% returns here. But okay, I'm at a point now where it's worth, it's worth, you know, taking care of myself, you know, helping myself, you know, feel validated and all this hard work. So I go buy a car and, you know, I'm not going to buy, you know, Mark or Joey's cars because I can't afford those cars. I'm going to, I'm going to buy, you know, I'm going to buy an average everyday, you know, Honda Accord here, 30. What do we number? We use 20,000.

20,000? Yeah.

Okay, that's not 100 core. That's more like a Civic or a Civic, a small Civic.

Cloth. Cloth seats.

Yeah. Well, $20,000. I did buy a Honda Accord in 2005 for 20,000. But as we talked about that inflation, it's called up to it, right? Yeah, it's a little higher. But If I take $20,000 out of my account, Joey, how much money was I going to have before I took it out if I just kept going in my land business for 30 years?

All right, you can see that on the screen. 2.384905. That's before we took the loan or we took the ca for the car.

Okay. Before I took cash out, if I just kept building up my business, I would have $2.3 million. All right, Mark, so I buy a $20,000 car with cash. It's pretty easy, right? And at the end of 30 years, my investment in my land business no longer has 2.3 million. How much cash do I have?

You see that down there?

1.2. 1.1 million. Is that what it says? 1.123 at the very bottom.

You might not be able to see it.

Scroll down on that. On your. On your thing, Joe, because he's only seeing line 23.

Sorry.

Oh, 1.6 million.

Eight.

Yeah. 1.618.

1.618.

All right, so I was going to have 2.3 million. I bought one Honda Civic along the way and took that money out of my land business. So I couldn't go buy properties with that 20 grand ever again. And that over just the 25 year period of time, cost me how much money, Joey? 766,000 bucks. A $20,000 car.

Yeah. So I had to watch this, you guys, at boot camp, and realize how much I was losing.

Well, but think about that. How have we been taught to pay for things? We've been taught to pay cash for things. Like Dave Ramsey has slapped us all against the head for years, telling us we're morons if we go get a car loan.

He said, cash is king.

Yeah. And the billionaire Ray Dalios is king. Cash is trash.

There you go.

And you can see it. If we took this money out of our land business, cost us $766,000, do you think we could go get a loan from somebody for the $20,000 car and save just a few dollars?

Absolutely. Yeah.

Because when have you ever made a $700,000 mistake and felt good about it?

Never.

Never. And you're not going to. And I think what made you sick is when you thought about how many $20,000 deals you've done over the last 20 years.

Yeah, I really. You know what? I can't do this, you guys, without, like, a bucket near me. I'm nauseous. I'm not doing Well, I ate lunch, like, late. It's, like, sticking in my throat here.

But this is so. I mean, this is the thing, though. We come back to we know we need to have savings. We know as entrepreneurs we are bad at keeping money. We know there's going to be another crisis at some point in the future. We better have fallback cash. We better be in a position like we are today to take advantage for the next two years when people are trying to dump land. And if we have cash, we can buy, we can buy it at even deeper discounts. But if we're sticking it in accounts that are losing value, as we saw a second ago, or if we start paying cash for deals and we see what impact that has on our future, we're not going to get to financial freedom as quickly as we want to. So that's where we found this concept of using these life insurance policies as a tool. So I'm just going to go through a quick demonstration here. This is kind of us looking at land flipping, right? I want to just kind of bring it to, you know, a full circle and then we can go to some questions. But Joey and I said, all right, let's just say they listen to you, Mark, and they say, okay, I saw Mark, what he went through in 2010, I'm not going to go through that. I'm going to take 25,000, 250,000 or 2500 again, add a zero, subtract a zero. Wherever you're at, just follow the map. So I'm going to take some money. I'm going to stick it away for the rainy day. And if I do that for the next four years, then I'm going to have some rainy day cash that'll help me through the next crisis so that I'm not, you know, I'm not in bad panic mode if, if my, if my notes quit performing and here, here's, you know, 25,000, and I'm going to stick it in this 1% account. Now, I'm not going to go back through the math of how that loses interest, you know, with inflation. Right. But I want to think of it as let's. Let's compare us buying some land. So you said the other day when we were interviewing you that kind of a bread and butter deal is you pay $1,500 for it and you sell it for seven grand. Is that right? Right. Okay. All right. So, Joey, let's look at an example of buying, you know, start, say, year two, we buy 10 of those $1,500, properties. So 10 times 1500 is 15,000. You got the math?

Yeah. You with us?

And if we, if we can sell those on terms for $100 a month and we had 10 of them, that would be $1,000 a month or 12,000 a year. You following the math there?

I got it.

All right, so I'm gonna keep doing that. Just gonna put that on, rinse and repeat. I'm gonna buy 10 properties every year on terms, $100 a month.

And they're gonna pay you over six years, by the way.

Yeah.

Okay.

And it would just over and over and over, rinse and repeat. And ultimately it's going to just level out because we're going to have some properties now that are rolling off that six year note and new properties. Come on. So ultimately, I'll kind of level out at 6,000amonth, 72 grand a year. All right, so, Joey, how much cash again? We just have to have a number to look at the bottom, scroll down to the bottom. And how much cash do we have in this account?

1.821.

We have $1.8 million. So this is how infinite banking plays into this thing. Because this is, this is the part that is where we just simplify the process. There's a lot of little bitty tools in here. But I want to, I want to just show Joey what if we just. Over the next 30 years, in our insurance policy, if it only earned 3%, right. It may earn 5%, it may earn 4% may. Or 7%, but I'm just going to show 3% as a compared to the 1%. And instead of paying cash, I'm going to take a loan, aren't I?

Yep.

And so it's, you know, and the insurance companies, Mark, they don't do this for free. This is not out of goodness of their heart. They actually have to put this money to work somewhere. They're going to have to lend it either to you or to a finance company who then is going to turn around and lend you the money for the cars, right?

Yeah.

They got to put the money to work somewhere. And you stand as a policyholder first in line to the access of that cash. Now, if I look at this, instead of having the $1,800,000, I end up with 2.3 million. That's a half a million dollars for doing exactly the same thing. But the only difference was is that I use an insurance policy. Do you see that?

Yeah. Yeah.

It's the exact same thing. Now here's the thing, is that I'M not a cpa, but yet we have tax attorneys that we work with who help us and CPAs. And they tell me, Russ, if you take this money against your life insurance policy and you go buy an investment or you go buy any use it in your business for any deductible expense like that, you're going to create investment interest expense and you can deduct that interest expense against your investment interest income. So if I'm in a. Just. I'm just gonna round and say I'm in a 30% bracket. I wish I was in 30% bracket, but let's assume I was in just a 30% bracket. 5. 5% is not my cost.

Right, right.

It's 5 less than 30%. So really it's 3.5.

Right.

So now I got 2.4 million instead of 1 point or 1 point, whatever the number. 1.8, I think it was. So the whole point to this is I'm doing the same thing. Am I working any harder, Mark?

No. No.

Am I taking on any more risk?

No.

Changing the way that I do stuff other than I'm just using a different account for the money to come from?

No.

I don't know how other way to say this then. This is why we use life insurance contracts not only for land business, for other real estate deals, for business deals. Because all we're trying to do is get to that point of financial freedom quicker. And I don't care what it looks like. You know, again, the reason we're using land flipping is because this an inefficient market out there. It is. Is low competition and it's effective when we put a process in place. And it's exactly the same for me with these life insurance contracts. There's just more efficiencies when we follow this process to add on to everything we do. So it's not one minus one is one plus one.

I gotta tell you, now that I'm hearing it again, I think the first time I heard it I was just so nauseous I couldn't hear much. Like now, now, like I'm a little less nauseous. And like, this is sexy, you guys. Now, now I'm seeing like the sexiness of it.

Well, you're just singing close up of Joey there and.

No, no, I'm seeing Chewy's. Joey's whiteboard is sexy. The closet is sexy.

I was a little short sighted on selling my house last year and renting a house without an office.

Yeah, you should have seen that. Yeah. Being. Being locked in your house with five kids for two months. See that thing through. But so here, here's, here's the question I have, Mark though. Why is it I want to like have you start the question? I don't know if people are asking questions in the chat or not yet. But why is it you. You said if I hear one more person say infinite banking today, but you've heard it so many times. Why have you not started your own policy? What's your hang up in this?

Well, for me it's just procrastination. Why do we procrastinate anything? There's some kind of fear and that's it. I'm afraid of something. I don't know exactly what it is. I think before it was the unknown, but now that I'm hearing it again, now I'm definitely doing this. But Andy Chen has an interesting question. He wants to know what would happen to your policy if the insurance company went belly up?

That's an awesome question. So if the insurance company went out of business, then in each state that these insurance companies have to do business in, they have what's called a guarantee fund. Not tee, but ty. So the insurance companies actually have to put money in a fund in every single state that they do business in to protect the policyholder from a loss. Now every state's a little bit different. In the state of Alabama, that would protect us up to 100,000 of cash value and 300,000 of death benefit. Now Mark, the better question is how many times has one of these mutual life insurance companies ever gone belly up?

That is a good question. How many donut? Zero. Wow.

Zero. Now again, people say, well, 200 years isn't long enough time frame for us to track that.

We've seen some economic calamities the last 200 years.

So the real thing is to this is that the financial institutions that we typically deal with are working on quarterly dividend statements. And so they're constantly beholden to what it looks like on a daily quarterly basis. An insurance company operates over 100 year time frame. So they literally are storing money and putting money in interest, creating income, creating accounts. They're really doing what we're trying to do, create cash flow. That's where they put their Money. Less than 0.02% Typically in the average insurance company has ever invested in a speculative place, a place that they hope just will appreciate. Right. I know you hate people buying land just for the hope that it's going to appreciate. You buy land, you turn around, you create income with it. That's the way to do it. Well, that's all insurance companies do. They literally put, put their money in places that create income streams, and it's looked out over a long period of time. So because of that, yes, they've gone through the Civil War, they've gone through the Great Depression, all the issues that we dealt with in the 70s and 80s, the 2001-2008. And every single year, every one of these companies that we do business with has paid a dividend every single year. And so that, to me.

Wait a minute. Dividend? You got to clarify. Dividend just means that there's a surplus.

So just extra capital.

So you just, I mean, clarify that. That, that means that they're not hurting. They're not barely squeaking by. They, they're always working off of a surplus.

If you, if you want to be on camera, by the way, you have to stop sharing your screen.

You know, I, I'm cool. I don't want people to get, you know, I don't want to overshadow Russia.

You know, it would cause anybody to slip. I get it. I appreciate that. Well, that's a. But that is a great question. And my, you know, I always go through those little things because that's the way we're trained to think. And I appreciate you thinking from that perspective. And I always say, hey, look, if everything's going to fail, the insurance companies will fail, too. But it will be, it will be the last person standing on the Titanic right at the point in which they're the everything fails, they'll be the last one standing. So I don't, you know, pretend that they can withstand every single thing, but they have withstand everything to this point.

Crazy. Okay, here's a question. Do you have to open one in the state you live in, or can you pick a state that is more beneficial towards your goals?

No, that's a good question. So, yeah, you will you. When you buy an insurance policy, really the state is not an issue. I know that I mentioned a second ago, there's, there's reserve funds for, you know, if a insurance company were to go out of business. But considering the fact that none of them have gone out of business, I don't think we should make our decisions based upon that. So, yeah, our company does business and every state in the union, so we have the ability to help somebody buy an insurance policy wherever they are. That doesn't matter. And really, it goes back to finding, you know, whether we should be insuring ourselves, our spouses, our business partners down the Road we started ensuring our kids, our employees. I mean, I own 20 policies, Mark, so they're on a lots of different people. And if I could get the stallion approved one more time, I'm going to have 21 here shortly.

Yeah, I mean I want to have like 22 policies like now. I want to be competitive so lutely should compete.

That's a race that I want you to be in.

Okay, so. So I think, I think one of it says unknown on my end. But here's the question. If I had a guess, it's. It's probably one of Joey's daughters. Don't forget to mention that this is also the best way to pay debt down as well. Oh yeah, see they're, they're drinking from the Kool Aid.

Well, it's just that our cash has to reside somewhere. No matter what we're going to use it to do. Right. We always have a decision of what to do with our money and that's common. Like, hey Russ, what's the first thing I should do? Should I use it to buy a piece of land? Should I use it to pay down a debt? Should I use it to buy a car, whatever it may be. And those are those opportunity cost decisions. And we make our best decision at the time with information at hand. And for some people, getting out of some really bad types of debt, you know, the debt that 20% that cost us large payments and things like that, because we're always playing the financial freedom formula, which is our passive income needs to be greater than our monthly expenses. So when we make a decision with a dollar, are we going to buy an asset that's going to give us passive income? Are we going to take the dollar and pay down a debt that's going to reduce our expenses? And whichever one has the greatest impact is what we decide to do.

Yeah, it makes sense. So Natalie Mino and Andrew Mino are the ones chiming in. So Natalie said. Made me sick to my stomach when I first heard this too. Thank you, Natalie. Had to wrap my mind around this, but best decision we've ever made, switching our policies besides investing in land flipping, of course. Natalie Mino, thank you so much. You guys are getting some more love. Warehouse of wealth how privatized banking really works in the case for IBC or three. Oh, here's some IBC books. So we want to know what books. But here's a question from somebody who has a whole policy. I think they gotta get on a call with you guys because he says, I had a salesman convince Me to get a whole life policy with an incident indexing strategy. I've had my policy since 2012. I honestly don't understand it fully. Similar to what you are preaching. Minimum death benefit, maximum cash. I pay a $200 per month premium. How do the premiums play into this model? You determine how much you want to quote, unquote, save, and you contribute that amount monthly as your premium.

Yeah, so that's a typical way that people will start, Mark, is they go through. Through like in our, our community and we're. We want. If, if you are not already a member, we're going to give you access to our community. And one of the first things in the community we kind of recommend people do is understand what their cash flow is. So we. They go through an automated budget course and stuff like that. And ultimately at the end, they know how much cash flow they have. Right. Whatever their, their mandatory expenses, variable and fixed, are minus their income. And that tells them how much they have. And so if it was $200 a month or 2,000amonth or 200,000amonth, whatever the number is, that's a lot of times where people start. But what they start to find out, usually when they're working with our coaches, is that there's a lot of money that they're allowing to go out the door unknowingly and unnecessarily. And I don't mean in like Starbucks payments. Right. I know. I'm not talking about like, you know, Joey's, you know, smoothie king run that he goes on. I'm talking about dollars that we pay in interest on debt, dollars we pay into qualified plans, dollars that we, that we send off on, you know, taxes that we don't have to pay. And so what we typically do, our coaches will work with people to help them find their dollars. And usually it's 2, 3, 5, 10 times as much as what they thought. And that's usually where people, somewhere between that number and where we find is where they start putting their money. And then as Natalie was saying a second ago is that if you then take those dollars and you can reduce a debt or you can increase, buy an asset, increase your income, now there's more dollars. Right? So the more, you know, when I first started that policy, you know, 10 years ago, I started with $25,000. Now, please hear me that when I give you numbers, there's so many people that just, you know, they use my money as toilet paper, Mark. You're. You're one included. So I'm not I'm only giving numbers because I try to be as transparent as I possibly can be. But when, you know, when I first started with $25,000. Right. That's all I could see that it was, you know, about two grand a month. That's what I could see initially. But as time has gone on, as I started to, you know, increase my income, both from a passive perspective and an active perspective, and I started to understand how to manage my lifestyle in a different way. Not in a like scarcity way, because I think we live a wonderful lifestyle. But I have been able to over 10x that 25,000 that I'm putting into life insurance policies on an annual basis. And I want to continue to increase it because when I look back at that insurance policy, Mark and I put in $7,100 and it grew by 14,000. You know what really hacks me off about that? What? Is that I'm not putting in $71,000 in that policy because the growth on that would have been how much this year?

I don't want to know.

Just double. Just double it.

140,000.

140.

I'm sick. Let's stop talking your numbers.

You get the point.

Until I have a policy, I don't want to hear any more about doubling opportunity cost.

The whole point is, is that that compounding curve started 10 years ago. And unfortunately, I only got $7,100 going into it. So, yes, people was usually like, I did start with a specific amount of money, but as time goes, we start finding other ways to get it in. And ultimately, because all we're trying to do is flow it through to do other things that are going to create income. Just like land flipping.

Yeah. I think the Minos and I need to start a support group, honestly, for people that are late to the IBC game, but at least they're doing it, which is better than what I can say. Okay, so Jason Mendoza, not sure if it has been mentioned, but the asset protection of these policies is one of the biggest overall benefits as well. Passive benefits. What does he mean by that, you guys?

Yeah, so the life insurance policies. And again, this is state specific, so I'm only going to speak to Alabama, but in the state of Alabama, they're 100% creditor proof to us owning them personally. So if, if I'm out here on the lake, driving my kids around and I run over somebody, they cannot sue me and get access to any of my cash values. Those are 100% credit approved now. And that's. I think there's a handful of states that have small limitations to that. But as a whole, I found in just my limited research on this that most states have that same creditor protection, which is huge. I mean, you know, I mean, we talk about that with buying land, and if somebody goes out there and does something stupid and tries to sue us for it, then the last thing we want is them to come back and get our Armageddon fund.

Right, right.

We don't want them coming and attacking those things. So it is important for us to own these insurance policies individually, not in a corporation, own them as individuals and be granted all the protection that comes along with that. And there's a lot of cases out there that support this. I don't know. You know, you guys may know the Ken Lamb, I think the guy, the Enron guy, right?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I mean, that. A lot of famous case study there where he, he, he owned a lot of insurance policies and obviously defrauded, you know, tons of people, you know, tens of millions of dollars, but those dollars are not accessible because those policies were owned. O.J. simpson as an example, his pension from the NFL is an annuity. Before, you know, after the first issue, but had the civil case where he owed all the money, people were wondering, well, if he owes all this money that he can't afford, how in the world, world is he living in South Florida playing golf all the time? Because his pension from the NFL was an annuity, which is just an insurance contract, is not, was not subject to that, that, that lawsuit.

So basically what you're saying is O.J. simpson is even savvier financially than me. That's, that's great. This is really devolving. Let's, let's get to a better subject here. Dan DiVicenzo. Could this concept be applied to borrowing against a stock portfolio? Less borrowing capacity in down markets, but over time, potentially higher compounding return.

Yeah, so that, that would be the, a very frequently asked question that we get. And that's a lot of times I don't. I thought I heard you say that somebody was asking about using an indexing formula.

Most people. That's what.

Yeah, yeah, most people are. You know, we are trained to think interest rates and the financial world gets us caught up in this noise, and it then makes us say, oh, well, then if I could only earn more, then that more is better. And so that's a very common thought process initially. And by the way, just so I don't know if we talked about this early on, but I come from an investment background. So in 2004, I started with a traditional typical financial firm. That's all I did was investments. And for the first four and a half years of my career, I was an investment manager, money manager, certified financial planner. I believe stock market was the only way to make money. And by the way, for the first four years, I was doing great. I mean, I was a genius. I really was. Now, the golden touch. Yeah, a rising market. You know, I think Warren Buffett said rising tide raises all boats, but when the tide goes out, you find out who's wearing a bathing suit and who's not. And I was among a lot of people who weren't wearing a bathing suit when it went out. And so what I would say to that is that this is not about trying to make return in something that is speculative. Because the stock market is speculation. There's a difference between investment and speculation. Investment is taking our capital, having a very specific use of it, with a safe expectation that it's going to be returned to me with friends, with friends. That's what we do with land flipping, right? We're wanting our goal to multiply. Going back to the old George Clayson book, the Richest man of Babylon, right? But when we invest in the stock market, it's not investing, it is literally speculation. Because we are hoping that the money we put in there will appreciate. And I think just the way you talk about it in land, that we should not buy land, hold on to it for 20 years and hope to sell it for a higher price? That's inefficient because the volume of what we do. I mean, think about this. In grocery stores, does a grocery store owner buy a case of toilet paper and hope to sell it 20 years for a higher price? Or do they put it on the shelf and hope to see how quick it can be taken off so they can buy a new case of toilet paper, put it on there and on and on and on. It's about the volume, the velocity. And that's the way money really works. That's the way banks, banks do not care to charge you the highest interest rate. They literally make more money in low interest rate environments because of velocity. And that's, that's something I learned through this process. So, yes, a stock account, you can get a margin account against it. Like you said, they don't give you the highest percentage. They're giving you 40, 50%. The reason is because the volatility of it. There's margin calls on it. There's the potential, obviously for you not to be able to make those margin calls and then having to sell those assets. So for us, this is not an investment. This is literally a savings to hedge against inflation that's going to give us a place to borrow against. And here's a really interesting part about this, is that, Mark, when I take a policy loan at the insurance company, do you know what my required payback is?

What? Zero. How is that possible?

I have no monthly payment because all it is, is a return of capital. It is literally a repayment of the death benefit or a prepayment of the death benefit. So when I take a policy loan, for simplicity, if I have a million dollar death benefit, I took $100,000 loan against my insurance policy. If I die tomorrow, my wife Megan gets a $900,000 check because they immediately stroke a check to cover the $100,000 loan I had. So it's just a prepayment of the death benefit. So they're. Remember we talked about this early on. Insurance companies are interested in one thing and it's the death benefit that's the liability on their books, not the cash. And my cash is guaranteed to grow to equal the death benefit at a future age. So they are literally reducing their liability every time I take a policy loan. And they don't have to manage it, they don't have to go buy a piece of real estate, they don't have to buy a bond. They have no management structure if they lend it to me. So I don't have a payment versus if I go get a margin loan and gets a stock portfolio, I have a monthly payment. And also I have a potential margin call. I can never have that in my insurance contract. So again, lots of reasons why I would not go that route. It's not about rate of return, it's about a guaranteed growth straight strategy. Because our return should come from the things that we're investing in, not speculating on.

Yeah, Jason Mendoza. And this is like reading French for me, but I think you guys will understand what he's saying. He says for my policies, for the cash inputs, the max before MEC modified endowment contract is hit is about five times the minimum. There's a lot of extra cash that can be pushed into it and it can be adjusted annually at least. What the heck is he talking about?

Well, what he's saying is that early on, Joey drew kind of a minimum line and a maximum line of how we design insurance policies. And the minimum is the least amount you could put in an insurance policy. And that maximum is what he's saying is that MEC line. MEC is just a fancy way of saying a taxable event. So think of your 401k or IRA, and hopefully you don't have any of those things. But if you did, think of how they act. If you try to take money out of one of those, you're subject to whatever the taxes are at that point in time, as well as you're subject to any penalties if you're taking it out pre 59 and a half. Unless you're in the middle of this Covid crisis, which is we got a lot of people taking money out of 401ks and IRAs and doing things differently because of the opportunity that exists today. Yeah.

So that. That leads me to another question, which I asked it at boot camp and Joey had a really interesting answer to it because when I hear contract, I think, well, okay, I'm contractibly obligated to make this monthly premium payment on my contract. But, like, you know, things happen. Like, you know, what if I lost my job because of COVID 19 or who knows what, and now I'm going through a cash flow crisis, but I've gotta make this premium payment. And Joey had a really interesting answer about that.

Yeah. So I actually am the biggest, I should say the worst case study that I've ever seen. And so I. I mean, at the time it was a little difficult. Now, I'm grateful for, to have an actual case study to share with you, but at the time, at 2014, I decided to leave the mortgage business. I was making well over $300,000 a year, and I was putting in excess of $60,000 a year in premiums into policies. I had three policies at the time, and I said, so I went literally from 300,000 to zero and had to build up a business over the next. I mean, now it's been six years and tried to get back to that income or beyond, but it took a long time to do that and I still had to pay the premiums. So I actually borrowed from the policy to pay the policy and created loans against the policy that now I've been able to repay with the excess income that I have now. Now that's a difficult thing to go through. But what I'm saying is there's definitely options to keep the policy in force and there's flexibility in how you pay it and so on and so forth. But it's definitely worth it to keep the asset because now those dollars have continued to compound over the last 10 years, even though I personally made the choice six years ago, I could have easily interrupted that.

Right.

By just canceling them out like most people would have done.

I think, I think a good question for you on that is, would you have ever left your job to pursue a new, like a business that you got into if you had not been doing this?

No. No, no, no. So, yeah, after four years of having put in the $60,000 into these premiums, I had a significant well over $200,000 of available cash in policies that I could use to leverage to pay for my lifestyle, to pay for food. I mean, I mean, I had to literally start from scratch in this business, and I was able to do that. And oh, by the way, I actually did some private lending because I had excess cash laying around in the policy. And I said, well, somebody came up and wanted a private mortgage. I was like, wait a minute, I know a little bit about mortgages. You want to pay me 10% on a 15 year note? Okay, so I did that. But my point is, I never would have left if I didn't have access to capital. And if I had just continued to do what I'd done before, I'd have been stuck in a 401k with no access to capital, and I would have never even thought it was possible to leave.

Yeah.

See, now it's starting to make sense to me in the sense, like, I can kind of see why Russ has 21 policies.

Yeah.

Because I'm like, as you're telling the story, Joe, I'm thinking, well, gosh, I got three kids, I could get policies on all three kids. I've got my wife, I get a policy on my wife, I get a policy on me. Scott, Todd, let's go. Right.

That's right.

It's starting to make a lot of sense. And then let's say that for whatever reason, we go through some kind of land slump. I'm fine, I can borrow against whatever my own cash.

It's just a big savings account.

Right.

I mean, if, if I take all the just like slickness, if there is any slickness to it, I don't think. I think hopefully we tried to make this as dull as possible because sometimes it frustrates me when I see people that try to make this so fancy and they use all these like, marketing terms to try to talk about this.

12 levers of leverage. Yeah.

The 770 account, you know, or whatever. I mean, it's life insurance. It's a life insurance policy that when in the hands of experts, can be used expertly. You know, that's the Thing is that it's just another tool, right? Land is not good or bad, it's how you use it.

Right?

I mean, we have learned now how to use land thanks to you, thanks to Scott Tate and Mimi and Scott Bossman and everybody. I want to, like, give credit to a lot of. Lot of the clients that we have, dawn and Noah and Sid. I mean, there's so many people that are teaching us about land. Like, we see now that land could be used in a much better way. And it's just the same thing that we learned with this is that this is literally just a big savings account. And just like you've been able to go into your savings account before when there was times of need, this is what it's for. And there are some, you know, again, we don't need to go through all the safety provisions, but know that we have so many engineer clients and airplane pilots, people who need five safety checks. You know, every single one of them have figured out that this has so many levers that can protect them in the worst case black swan scenario that they're like, oh, okay, now how much more can I buy? This?

Yeah, now, yeah, you are living in a Black swan scenario. So a question came up. Could tax laws ever change.

Do you think?

I mean, today, I think, honestly, I think Joey's like, he's got his daughter in another room. He's like a whiteboard. Ask this question, like, just like, just lobbing this up for us. So could tax laws ever change?

I don't know. We only got 10,000 pages in the tax law, right? I mean, I think there's like 7 or 8 to define income, and the other 10,000 that are all the exceptions to the rules. So can tax laws change? They will change. They change daily. I mean, right now we have people asking us, how much money can I take out of my 401k? When will I have to pay tax on it? All these things we got tax attorneys that are looking at us going, who knows? I mean, they haven't even figured out the answers to all this stuff yet because it's going to change between now and the end of the year. I think what the question is for some people who don't probably know what we're talking about is that these life insurance policies are not only can they grow without taxes, so as the money's accumulating in that policy I was showing you earlier, the 14,000 that grew, that one policy, I didn't have a 1099 that was sent to me that year, nor did I get a 1099 for the $110,000 that I'd taken a loan against. Now why? Because a loan is not a taxable event. You've never taken a loan out and had to pay tax on it. So that's how we get around the tax laws. These insurance policies were created 200 years ago. The tax code was created in 1913. So there was a lot of things that were built in, obviously as the tax code would create in 1913 that said these insurance contracts have certain provisions that we're not going to tax. One of the big ones. The government does not want to be in the business of having to pay def claims to people. Right. They've sort of stepped their foot in there with Social Security. They know that that's getting ready to be a huge collapse. They don't want that. So they want to keep tax provisions. But also back in the early 80s and a lot of people don't know this, that the insurance companies and the government got together and they said, hey, we've got to work together. We got to create a way for these insurance policies to grow and as not to have tax on it. And so that's where in the tax code, it's literally a section, the 7702 in the tax code. That's where, if you ever see the 770 account, that's where they're coming up with that mysterious information. But it's just a section in the tax code that says, yes, the insurance policies need to have a guaranteed growth rate inside of them. And because of that, then we give them special tax favor and we won't have taxes as long as they meet that criteria. Stay below that MEC line. And that's why it's important obviously to work with somebody who understands how this should be set up and they monitor it. But for the most part, I mean, will taxes change? Probably, but always go back to the government's going to need more money. I mean this $5 trillion they're handing out isn't for free. They're going to come back and get it. And the first places they're going to get it is the things that they created. And the thing that they created is every tax qualified plan on the planet right now. 401ks IRA, SEP IRAs, Roth IRAs, you name it, if they created it, that's the easiest money, that's the easiest money for them to go after and get. And when you see them going after it, and they will at some point, then yes, maybe down the road they Come back and they go after life insurance money. But what we've seen in the past, they did this in the early 80s, is that they did change how much money we could put in life insurance because there used not to be a limit, but they changed that limit and then they just grandfathered in. Everybody who was over that limit up to that point said, everybody going forward, if you go over that limit now, we're going to subject to tax.

Well, and the other point about that that I'll make is that those things are contracts, right? Life insurance policies are contracts. So in order for anything to affected an old contract, it would have to change contract law, which would be a tremendous, I mean, hurdle. Whereas the tax code can be changed literally in minutes. So the fact that we're not subject to the tax code as much as we are the contract law, that to me tells me, hey, I've got mine in place. They're more than likely not going to be able to affect me going forward on those. So anyways, hopefully that helps.

It totally does. And someone, I think it was Ken. This is an interesting little tactic I think you guys would like. He said he pulled his money out of his 401k under the CARES act and dumped it right into his IBC policy.

Yeah, yeah, we have a lot of people that are looking at that approach. Obviously we've been given a window and people are calling us and saying, hey, can I start another policy? Can I put it in the existing one? I got an email just on that today.

Well, here's another question. If you guys have time, I don't know, how are you guys doing time wise?

We're good.

I'm doing good. I haven't been overrun by the kids yet.

Okay, as an example, when using these policies for your land businesses, what revenue can be used to fund the policies? Is it only the money taken out of the business? I assume.

No. I mean, assuming it's all legal money, right? I mean, you can put any money you want to in it.

Yeah. Okay, now here I'm going to get real with you guys for a second, okay? And Joey, don't judge because I can't see your face. And it's not just me. I mean, I think, I think, you know, put in the comments. If you're an entrepreneur, like, tell me if this is like one of your morning rituals, because I can tell you this is one of my morning rituals. I wake up and I probably brush my teeth first. But then second is I grab my phone and I don't check email. I go to my bank account. And I do. And as an entrepreneur, like, I do kind of like bank balance kind of accounting. And I get. It's like a little financial woobie. And I just kind of look at the numbers. Did they go up? Is everything okay? Nothing. There's nothing suspect in there. Let me check all these accounts. Profit first, profits going up. Good, good. Did my wife spend any money in the personal account? Oh, no.

It's okay.

We're okay. Life is meant to be lived and I go through all this. Right. So am I going to lose my financial wobby?

No.

Be able to check on this with an IBC.

Yeah, you said bank. Bank balance accounting. Mike McAllister. I'd be happy with you for doing it. Big balance accounting.

Oh, no, I used to do that. Now I do the profit first.

Yeah, well, yeah, we talked to him about. We interviewed him on our podcast. And actually Joey and I use profit first as well in our business. And we use the tax hold account, the profit account, as is your policy. So we love profit first and think that's great. No, I mean, obviously, we're living in the 21st century, right? So every one of these insurance companies, it's taken them a while, but they've come along online and you can go online and check your balances. And Joey and I actually have bought this third party kind of financial aggregating tool. And for most insurance companies, we actually have been able to get them to sink into it. It's sort of like a mint.com, the pro version, if you will. And you can just. On my phone, I can click a button and I can see the balances in my insurance policies. Now with all the new security rules and stuff like that, some of that stuff is being delayed and they're having to fix some of the glitches. But for most insurance companies, I can click a button, see the balance pretty quickly. So, no, that's not an issue.

Okay. Do you do that, Russ? Do you check?

Do I do it? I do it probably once every month or two. I mean, I got to a point where, you know, like, early on, sure, I checked it a lot, right. Because I wanted to make sure it. Is it really growing? You know, did it go up? And I love it when we get messages in the community like, hey, I just, you know, I looked at my. My insurance contract and I realized it grew yesterday. It grew. You know, all my friends, they're talking about their 401k or their stock account. It went down 5%. Mine went up. It's like yeah, we said it was going to. It literally contractually has to go up. I mean, that's the best part about this, Mark, is that there's very few things other than Joey's waistline that grows every single day. These insurance policies, not all insurance policies, but dividend paying, a whole life insurance policy policies contractually must grow every single day. Like that is an amazing tool. When you are trying to put money into a safe place, you want to know you can get to it, but you want to know it's not going down in value. The fact that it is going up every single day is awesome. And our mentor, we're blessed that we got to spend probably the last 11 years of his life on a fairly regular basis meeting with Nelson Nash, the author of the book Becoming youg Own Banker, where this whole infinite banking idea arose. He lived in our backyard. I mean that was pretty amazing that God created that opportunity for us to meet him. And so we got to spend a lot of time with him. But he had policies that went back into the 40s and 50s. And so we got to see history of policy. I remember Joey and I were at lunch one day with him. Joe, you probably remember this. We're sitting there and we sit, sit down at this little hamburger restaurant around the corner from his house in our office. And he goes, you guys want to see something? I'm like, yeah, absolutely. He starts, unbutton his shirt, Mark. And I'm like, this is about to get weird. You know, an 85 year old man unbutton his shirt in a hamburger restaurant in Birmingham. That's just not going to go over well. And he reaches out and he pulls out this statement and he has a statement in his hand and he's like, you know what this is? Like, no. He goes, this is my first insurance policy that I had and I just wanted you guys to be the first one to see it. It's a statement just came in the mail and he wanted to show us the growth, just like I showed you that, that policy statement a second ago. Now his was a lot more impressive than mine because his was like 60 years old. I mean it was just really cool to like see something. He's like, it gets better every year. He would tell us stories of things that he'd done with money. And that's just one of those things that we love about this. And that financial planner in me, because I always have to check those boxes. I'm always trying to do risk management. And when I knew that this is something that could never go down in value unless I reached in, took a loan and never paid it back. Right. It was always going to grow no matter what. I was like this, this meets those boxes. Kind of like Bland did for you when you're trying to figure out what was the best investment. It met all of those boxes. So then when I pair these two together, I think I said this on a Facebook post. It's like peanut butter and jelly, man. It's great.

Yeah, no, it really is. I, I'm trying to think of a better combo than peanut butter and jelly, but nothing is coming to mind.

Maple bacon donuts and, and bacon maybe.

Yeah.

Donuts. That's one of my favorites.

Yeah. I'm just waiting for, for Joey to make some kind of, like, pretentious comment like, you know, caviar in a, in a Russian cracker with Baltic Sea salt with some truffle. Those two things just go together like IBC and land investor thing. So Racine. So it says. So would it be best to have your business buy the policy so the premium is deductible?

Man, if. I've been asked once a million times. So if the, if the government would allow us to deduct the premium and be able to get the money out without having to pay tax, it'd be jackpot. I mean, right now we're already busy enough. We couldn't hire enough people to help us if that was available. So, no, they're going to make you pay the tax one way or another. You have to pay it on the front end or you'll pay it on the back end. And that's why we tell people, hey, look, you know, get, get, get the tax in a known bracket today because we know it's never going to be lower than it is today. We, we typically tell people in most situations, you don't want to own it in a corporation because then it becomes an asset of the corporation and then it potentially could be subject to creditors of the business. So typically speaking, we want to own it personally. So we keep all those creditor protection and we will pay the tax today, but we will get all the benefits of the growth and access to money future without having to pay tax.

No, that's, that's really helpful. So I got another question. How do IBCs compare to life insurance annuities?

Well, they're just two different things. So an annuity is a life insurance product that is set to create an income stream. So people are trying to hedge against running out of money in the future. And so they put a lump sum of money into an account and then the insurance company will pay them out as long as they live, typically. But obviously some of them could be set up on a monthly payment and life insurance policy. Like what we're talking about is where we're putting a stream of income in and it's going to pay a death benefit at some point in the future. It's one of the reasons why, kind of going back to the question way back when, when somebody said, what happens if an insurance company fails? Insurance companies have actually hedged through those two different tools. As you can see, a risk to an insurance company is that somebody dies too early. So the way they offset that risk is they go and they set up an annuity. Right. Because the opposite is true. Annuity. If someone dies too early, then the insurance company keeps the excess cash and vice versa. Right. Somebody lives forever. That would be an expense to somebody on the annuity side. But if on the annuities, if they kept it forever, the insurance company obviously has recouped the, the payments and so forth and so on. So they're perfect hedges is why insurance companies are probably a lot smarter than most financial institutions, why the banks put their money there.

So just to be clear, so Jason Mendoza wants to know, so in all caps, all income from an entity can be run through the policy, personally owned, without tax impacts or concerns.

So when you earn income, however you earn that income, and whatever tax implications are subject to that income are paid, you put that money in the insurance policy. From that point forward, you cannot be taxed on that money. So as I make income, I pay tax, however I'm taxed. Obviously, I use lots of tax attorneys and strategy. I try to use those 10,000 pages to my fullest to minimize my tax. But when I put it in my insurance contract from that point forward, I can eliminate any future tax on it Unless I take it out and do a land deal. Right. I do a land deal, then whatever that income is would be subject to tax. Now, maybe I can offset some of it, like I said before, against the interest that the insurance company has charged me. But the insurance company is not charging me as much money as I'm making, so I'm going to pay tax there. So I don't know if that answered your question. You would only pay tax on where you're making income, but not inside the insurance policy itself.

So another statement was, so we are actually borrowing against the future death benefit, Is that correct?

Yes, yes. Which is a beautiful thing. And so you know that policy I bought 10 years ago the death benefit is almost twice what it was when I first got it.

Wow.

Yeah.

So is that policy loan is collateralized by the death benefit. Okay. So yeah, this has been great. Somebody want to know what I'm going to do with this video? So basically this is going to be living on the interwebs. It's on YouTube, it's on Facebook, it's on Periscope. But I'm techie, so I'm going to take the dominant, download the video. I'm going to put it into my own little secret spot and I'm going to put this in a place where you can watch it at any point in time. We'll probably put this, throw this in the investors toolkit, but we'll also have it as a free training that will go along with maybe like an ancillary thing with the podcast. And we'll just constantly kind of keep running it so that I can constantly prove grade my ignorance to lots and lots of people online, which is great for me.

Hey, no worries. Thank you for teaching us about land. We're happy to teach you about ibc.

No, I, I really appreciate it and I honestly, like, we're gonna have to come back because I'm gonna get my first policy and I'm gonna have like a freaking, you know, big six pack of beer here, celebrating, dousing myself. You know, I'm gonna be popping champagne. The Minos are gonna be on like live. Like they'll come into like, they'll be like virtually high fiving me. So it's gonna be me and the Minos. You guys, we're gonna have a big IBC party and I'll take like, I have like no longer financially ignorant and I just rip it off.

Well, Mark, thank you for giving us opportunity to share. This is again, we. Joey says this best. We're just beggars showing other beggars where the bread is. It's not like we got it all figured out either. We continue to learn daily. We're on the same journey that you are as it relates to getting to financial freedom. And this is just a tool. It's not the end. Neither is land, by the way. Land is just a means to the end. And this is not the magic pill. It's just one of the tools that we can use to help us get to what we really want. And for most of us, that's just time, freedom, more time to spend with family and enjoy the things that the pleasures of life. So thank you for having us.

And Mark, we set up this landing page Here for anybody that's watching that they can go there and actually on the page, you can actually specifically set a time with us and so you get the access to the calendar right here. And also if they haven't joined our community by now, I don't know why they haven't, but here's all the great news about that. They can join the land flipping group that is newly launched within the in the community and be with like minded people who are doing land flipping. So, yeah, and I do want to encourage this right here as far as scheduling a call with us, you know, people that sell life insurance. But again, I don't want to overemphasize the fact that you have to work with people that know how to set these up. We have unraveled issue upon issue upon issue of people who started a policy thinking that they were getting what we're talking about. And I literally got an email today with a guy said, I bought this two years ago. I still don't have any cash in it. Why don't I have any cash in my policy? And I'm like, ooh, this is a problem. It wasn't set up properly. And so anyways, we want to specifically have a place for you guys to come and work with us with our coaches. So anyway, I just want to point that out.

Yeah, no, this is great. This is great. Thank you guys so much for adding so much value to the lanky community. It's, you know, as much as I joke, it's really, it's been literally life changing for me. So many people in our community, it's just every day I feel tremendous amount of gratitude for both of you guys and all the value you provide. So thank you so much for everything you do and all the time you spend. I mean, it really means everything to me. Hopefully one day very soon you guys will come back to a boot camp and I won't be nauseous because I'll have my policy. But we'll be all together and you will just be continuing educating our land investing folks more and more on this because it's, you know, it is one of those things. And Rush, you said to me too, in the airport, like, you gotta hear it a few times before you get it. And so, so this is great. Thank you so much.

All right, thank you, everybody. Have a great night and be safe.

All right, you guys be safe, everybody. Let's do this together. 1, 2, 3. Let freedom ring ring. And of course, wash your hands. Thanks, everybody.

All right, have a great day.