Learning To Grow—How Failure Can Make You Succeed

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com and today's podcast guest is. I'm gonna put on my my anchorman voice. He's a big deal. He's got a TED Talk. He's done a lot of stuff. But before we talk to our guest, I'd be remiss I didn't properly introduce my co host, Six Sigma Scott Todd from Scott todd.net landmodo.com and most importantly, if not automating your Craigslist and your Facebook postings posting Domination.com TheLand Geek Scott Todd how are you, Mark?

I'm great.

How are you? Pulse is still normal, respiration is fine. I'm drinking your Kona coffee by the way. I am fully caffeinated. I love it. Scott was in Hawaii and was kind enough to send me some goodies from the island and I am fully enjoying it. So let's talk to our guest, Jim Harshaw Jr. From jimharshawjr.com failure, struggle and setbacks are not only an inevitable part of life, but but a necessary step on the path to success. Jim Harshaw has learned many life lessons on the wrestling mat. Having been a Division 1 All American and won three ACC championships for the University of Virginia, trained at the Olympic Training center and competed overseas for Team usa, he has experienced significant triumph and devastating defeat. He relates those powerful lessons of failure, struggle and setback to empower his audiences to overcome their own challenges and achieve success despite their inevitable failures. Jim is a speaker, executive coach and host of the Success Through Failure podcast. You can find his TED Talk on failure as well. So we'll have links to all that. Jim Harshaw, how are you?

I'm great, Mark. Great Scott. Good to see you guys. And I appreciate you saying I'm kind of a big deal because I'm going to try and tell my wife that because she doesn't, she doesn't think so. So we'll see my kids.

If you want, I'll show the link to the TEDx talk.

Yeah, tell her I got a TEDx talk and she'll show. Maybe she'll think I'm a big deal again. So.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So Jim, why failure? There's so many things to sort of discuss as far as coaching and mentoring and motivating. Why failure?

You know, it's interesting how this all came about. I'm kind of now known as, quote, the failure guy, right? And this all started with a failure that I experienced. I mean, Really, I was, I had to speak in front of a group and I got really nervous and I was stumbling over my words. I'm like, man, this is just not okay. So, so I went, I signed up for Toastmasters, started going to Toastmasters meetings, speaking in front of groups. And then I had an opportunity. I heard about the Charlottesville TEDx event, which is one of the largest TEDx events in the world and top 1% of the largest of TEDx events in the world. And there was an open spot for a community speaker. And so I applied and basically they said, you know, I heard the commercial on the radio driving to work one morning and it said, you know, tonight, today's the deadline. You got to have your application in by 5 o' clock if you want to try to speak at the main TEDx event in Charlottesville. And it was one of those days where I had like 20 hours of work to do in a 10 hour day, you know, and I just, I was like, man, I'd love to send a two minute sort of sample video, but I just don't have time to get to it today. Well, about 4 o' clock I'm like, you know what, I need to do this. So I ran out to my car, held my phone in front of my face and I was like, what am I going to talk about? I was like, what is a message that's really going to resonate with people that I feel like I've experienced, that I can speak from experience on? And I said, failure and failure as it relates to success and the necessity of failure is a stepping stone on the path to success. And I shot this short video and submitted it along with 60 some other people who also wanted that one spot. 25 of us got chosen to speak at an open mic night. And at the open mic night there, an audience of 500 people chose me, voted for me to get the main spot, to get the spot on the main stage a month later. So that's how it came about. So I got to share my message. The title of my TEDx talk was why I Teach My Children to Fail. And so to get back to your question, why? It was a message that was on my heart. It's a message that failure is something that really held me back for a lot of years. I failed a lot as an athlete. That's just sort of a normal process and part of it. But those failures created a lot of self doubt in me. Those failures created a lot of self doubt in me as an athlete. And once I finally got over Those and realized that. That my failures don't define me. That's when I finally broke through. That's when I finally reached my dream. Getting on the podium at the national championships in front of 15,000 people. And. And then, you know, you fast forward through life and, you know, I became the youngest Division 1 head wrestling coach in the country. And now I trained at the Olympic Training center and had all these successes. I got out of coaching, got into business. First business was a home run. Started that, sold that, and then I started my next business, and that one was a failure. And I remember being at a point, Mark, where when that business was sort of on its last legs and I was kind of just about to shut things down, I was on Craigslist looking for a job, scrolling past the jobs for unpaid internships and paper boys, you know, and I'm thinking, like, I've got two degrees from the number one public university in the country. You know, I was a Division 1 All American. I'm an achiever. Like, how did I get. How did I get here? You know, my. I was. We had dead up to our eyeballs because of this business. I was in the worst physical condition of my life. My wife and I, we were just. Our relationship was at its lowest point. I wasn't spending enough quality time with my four kids, and everything was a mess. And I said, how did I get here? How did I get to this point? And that was sort of the low watermark in my life and in my career, for sure, in business, in my relationship as well, and financially. And whenever I gave this talk about failure, it was about three or four years after that low point. And I had recovered significantly since then. And there was a process that I used to recover, but that failure was a necessary step in my path to success as an athlete and as a business person and as a human being. So that's where that came from. I know it's something that would touch a lot of people, and it was something that was important to me.

So you're in this dark period of your life and, you know, how did you come out of it and what did you learn from it?

Yeah, so I was sitting there, I'm sitting there on my computer and looking. Looking on Craigslist, like I said. And I remember closing the lid on, just closing my computer, and my wife was. Ally was already in bed upstairs, and I just kind of set my computer down. I walked upstairs thinking, like, you know, still kind of in this. This low point thing, like, how did I get here? Like, this wasn't supposed to happen to Jim Harshaw, right? And so I laid down in bed next door, and the room's dark, and she's asleep, and I'm staring at the ceiling. And this is just kind of racing through my mind. And I hit on the fact of this. I said, you know, Jim, you were an athlete, right? And you were a successful athlete, and you had endured a lot of failure, a lot of failure to get to the point where you were a success, you know, and to be a Division 1 All American, it's actually statistically easier for a high school football player to be. To make it to the pros than a high school wrestler to become a Division 1 All American. It's a really hard thing to do. And I said, you. You dealt with all this failure, but you eventually turned that into success. Like, what was in place in your life then, that's not in place in your life now? Like, how do you take this failure, Jim, and turn it into success? Like, what were the things that were in place in your life that allowed you to turn failure into success? And it was. Honestly, Mark, it was like a camera lens just slowly coming into focus. I'm staring at the ceiling, and it all just kind of came to me in that moment laying there. And it was this. There were four things that I had in my life that allowed me to not only deal with failure, but deal with it in a successful way that allowed me to learn from it and propel me forward. And it was this. There was four steps. So, number one, I knew what was important to me when I was competing. I knew what I valued most. And what I valued most was getting onto the podium, was winning the championship, was being like the people that were my mentors and my heroes and my coaches, like these all Americans, these natural champions, these Olympians. That's who I wanted to be like. They were respected people. They lived disciplined lives, and they were just amazing people. And they were tough, right? And so I wanted to be like them. So that's what I valued, right? Those are my values. That was step one. Step two was I had goals that actually aligned with my values. My goals were directly in alignment with what my values were. So my goal was to become a Division 1 All American. That was in alignment with what was most important to me. So now. But if. But if you look in the real world, like most people, like, what's important to them, which most people really have never even truly defined. They don't really know, but they kind of have a general idea, and then their goals are in alignment with something else. They're in alignment with, like what the media is telling us that we should want. Most people's goals are in alignment with what they see on Facebook or what's parked in their neighbor's driveway. These things aren't truly what they value, though, right? So when I was competing, my values and my goals were in alignment, right? And then the third step was this. The third piece was this. I had when I was competing, I had this environment that I created around me, this environment. I call it the environment of excellence. I had coaches to kick me in the ass when I needed a kick or lift me up when I needed lifted up or to kind of help me course, correct, right? I had coaches, I had teammates who held me accountable, and I held them accountable, right? So we were in this together. Wrestling is an individual sport, but we still. I saw these people. I was in this together. We shared this shared experience. And I had nutritionists, I had strength and conditioning coaches, I had sports psychologists, I had athletic trainers. I had all these people in my life, right? And it wasn't just that. It was also, the media is part of my environment of excellence. The media that I allowed into my life. At the time, like, I didn't watch much tv, but when I did, I was watching wrestling, I was watching film of the world championships. I was watching film with myself, I was breaking down film with my opponents. That's the kind of stuff that I allowed into my head. And when I was reading books, I would read sports books, I'd read motivation books, I'd read wrestling books. Like, this was my environment, right? And then the fourth and final piece was I had a plan for follow through. Like, if I lost the match on Saturday, coach is going, hey, Jim, I'll see you tomorrow morning at the team lift at seven o'clock in the morning. Like, all right, there's my. I got to be there, right? This accountability built in. I was also on scholarship, so I, you know, if I wanted to keep my scholarship, I had. This was my plan for follow through. I had to be there. I had to keep going, right? So I couldn't just quit and give up and walk away. And so those were the four pieces. And when you recreate those four pieces into your life in the real world, which I did, like, everything, everything changed. Everything changed. So now I'm making more money now than I've ever made in my life. My relationship is, you know, I joked at the beginning of the show, my wife's not thinking I'm a big deal. Actually, my wife came down this morning. She gave me a big hug, and it was like, just. Just sort of like gratitude. Expressing gratitude. Like, we have this great relationship now, and my kids. Everything's great with my kids. And I'm like, I have planned quality time, intentional quality time with my kids. So my life is back in balance. And that's what most people talk about. Like, their life is not in balance, and therefore they feel they're not focused. They don't know what the right thing is for them. They're easily distracted. They don't have clarity on what's next for them. But this whole process helped me. That I discovered that night, laying in bed, looking at my ceiling helped me get through that dark time. And now that's what I teach people.

Yeah. Really profound, Scott. Todd, what are your thoughts?

You know, I think that, Jim, I mean, to hear your story is really kind of incredible. I mean, like, my own story was that, you know, I kind of grew up in kind of a corporate 300 company and, you know, found my success there. But before, I only worked there for, like, nine years. Nine years before I left. The thing is, is that before that, I, you know, like, I was successful, but I wasn't as successful as I thought I could be. I had some of those, like, dark days, too, where I was like, man, what. What is missing here? What's not connecting? Why. Why can't I be. I didn't know Mark at the time, but why can't I have a life like Mark Podolsky, right? Like, you know, essentially, you know, what.

What.

What was missing? And I think that you really have to dig down and really, I think that one of the first things I see in people sometimes is a lack of self confidence, right? Like, they. They don't, you know, like, for me, I had a master's degree, okay? I had a bachelor's degree in accounting, master's degree in business. And I was working for this small little company, and I hated every single day. I hated it, right? Like, it was. It was. It was painful just to get up and go to work. And I thought, well, what's wrong with me? Why can't I. Why can't I find the success? And one day my wife says to me, she says, you know, you've got this. You've got a great education. Go and use it. And I'm like, what? And she's like, go and use it. Like, you're not. You believe that you can do it. And I'm like, huh? That's a very, you know, Insightful thing from. It was kind of hard to hear from your wife because, you know, you want your wife to think like that, you know, you've got it all together. And I really took to heart what she was saying. I'm like, I, I gotta go, I gotta, I gotta do this right? Like it's time. And that's when I went and got my job in my Fortune 300 company. And you know, one of the things that was kind of hard for me was like, I always felt like people that were higher up or had success, that they had something on me, like that they were something that was different. And then I started putting together some small successes and I started realizing that, hey, if they can do that, then I can do it. I started to build my self confidence just by looking at like, oh, if they can do it, I can do it. And from that point, you know, 12, 15 years later, you start to realize like, man, that's really the secret is one, you got to have some self confidence. You got to build a team of people that you can trust to kind of guide you. But at the same time, you really have to take action and just believe that you can do it. And you know, to hear your story, it's really kind of takes me back to kind of some of the thoughts that I had in the past too.

Yeah. And I would imagine a lot of the listeners have had or experiencing similar thoughts right now. You know, when you, when you create this environment and you identify what's important to you and you create these goals, Scott, I mean, you experience it, it becomes not just action and drudgery and drudgery action. It becomes inspired action. That's what you want, right? I am so not a morning. My entire life, I've not been a morning person. I actually, I remember fearing graduating from college because that meant I had to wake up early every morning and go to a. I look back and go, I woke up at six o' clock in the morning most mornings in college to go do extra workouts. I go grab a 45 pound plate and run up and down the stadium stairs and put myself through voluntary pain and suffering, you know, but I would wake up early and do it because it was inspired action. Right now I wake up at 5am every day and I work on my podcast and my coaching. It's inspired action. It's different than the drudgery and the things that we don't want to do. When it becomes inspired action, that's when it becomes really fun. And that's where the self confidence comes from. And that's where success comes from.

Yeah, I mean, so if we flip this, Jim, a lot of times what happens is that people need a crisis to really get to a point where they're going to make a big change in their life. Right. How do we shortcut that? Why do we have to wait for a crisis? Why can't we just not be in so much pain and have this change that we want?

Yeah, it's a great question. Because most people are experiencing some level of, of that pain. Most people that I talk to are experiencing some like, it's like a dull pain. Right. It's like a dull ache. Right. It's just underlying anxiety of I'm not quite living out my full potential. I'm not doing what I know I could be doing or I should be doing. I'm not living to my fullest. And I'm slowly letting that dream, that hope, that vision I have inside of my head. I'm slowly letting that go. And so it's this dull, underlying, subtle pain and anxiety. And until it becomes acute, you're not going to most likely do anything about it. And so what does it take to have that lightning bolt or that, you know, short of having that rock bottom moment is this. So, you know, I have a podcast as you know as well, Mark, and you've been on there, success through failure. And I've interviewed tons of amazing and successful people like yourself and you know, astronauts and billionaires and professional athletes, et cetera, et cetera, New York Times best selling authors. And I always ask them, what's a habit that you do that you feel sets you apart? And what I've learned is they all tell me some form of pause. It's some form of getting off of the treadmill of life and actually evaluating thinking. They stop doing and they do thinking instead. Right? It's either meditation, it's coaching, they get a coach, or they prayer journaling. These are all like regular habits, not something that they did once, but like regular habits of highly, highly successful people. And I've kind of grouped these activities into something that I define as a productive pause. I call it a productive pause. And the definition is of a productive pause is a short period of focus reflection around specific questions that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind. So a short period of focused reflection that leads to clarity of action and peace of mind. And when you do that, you go, okay, so I'm experiencing this, this, this subtle pain, I'm experiencing this anxiety when you, when you have, when there's this whole mindfulness movement out there now. Right. And everybody thinks it's just meditation. It's not. It's. It's all these things. It's all these forms of a productive pause. And when you, when you stop, get off the treadmill, and you identify and you sense and you feel this pain, whether it's through journaling, whether it's through meditation, whether it's through H, a coach or a prayer or whatever the case might be, when you feel this pain, you can go, okay, wait a second, let me zoom out here. I'm headed this trajectory. I want to go on that trajectory. Something needs to change here. And it's usually, you have to identify what's important to you, then create goals that align with what's important to you, and then create that environment of excellence and then a plan for follow through. Does that make sense?

Totally makes sense. Scott. Todd, what do you do for your productive pause?

I like to, literally, I like to.

Write down my goals every day.

Right.

Like that's, that's my way of connecting with them and thinking them through. And thinking through what. What I'm trying to achieve on a, on a bigger scale. Not just like today.

Yeah, I, you know, it's so funny. I rotate my productive pauses where I'll go into mindfulness meditation, and then I'll go into sort of stoic principles, and then I'll also, when I work out, I'll have like an audiobook and I'll kind of be listening and then I'll start thinking again. You know, I read a lot. I take Mondays and Fridays off just to take that productive pause and really sort of meditate on other things that are important to me in life. But you know, I'm not watching Netflix all day. Right. It's more a productive sort of thoughtful. Am I, am I living my best life? And those types of things. So, Jim, what do you do for your productive pause?

Yeah, I do. Gosh, all the things I mentioned and more. So meditation, journaling, prayer. I have a coach. I do visualization, a lot of it. A lot of times when I'm driving, I will turn off the radio, turn everything off, and I would just think out loud and I will ask myself questions as if I was coaching myself. Right. I asked myself what I call these productive pause questions, and I challenge myself and I make myself answer those questions. So any of those forms of a productive pause, and I think about 5% of our total lives should be a productive pause, or at least 5% of our waking time should be in pause. And the other 95 should be in action. At least 5%. You should be, you know, 30 minutes a day can really set your day up for amazing results. You know, whether you're doing the prayer, the meditation, etc. The pause in the morning before you walk into a meeting, you should spend 30 seconds saying, what do I want to get out of this meeting? Right. Everybody hates meetings, right? But if you go, wait a second, productive pause. What do I want to get out of this meeting? What are the three things I want to leave this meeting with? And then you walk out of that meeting instead of saying, gosh, I forgot to ask this question, or we never clarified that, or we don't have these action items.

Know, you.

You walk out of the meeting and happens to be. Instead of an hour long, it's 45 minutes long. And you know. Exactly. Everybody has their action items. Everybody knows what gets out of the meeting, what they need to get out of it. So. So, yeah, those are all. Those are all different ways that I use a productive pause.

Is it okay to ask you what your, your three questions are that you like to ask yourself?

Yeah, I have a bunch. The one that I ask myself most is what's holding you back? What's holding you back? And it's such a powerful question that sort of starts the. Just starts a conversation, you know, what's holding me back? And it's U.S. internal. If it's something, if you're saying it's my boss or it's my. My spouse or something like that, then you need to kind of look in the mirror and figure out what. What is your role in that? Another good one is what would fill in the blank do? What would Jesus do? What would Tony Robbins do? What would Richard Branson. What would Elon Musk do? Richard Branson, Elon Musk. Those guys, those are big ones, great ones, because those are huge, huge thinkers. Another one is, what am I not doing that if I was, would most move me towards my goals? What am I not doing? Or what am I afraid of? What am I afraid of that I'm. And that I'm not doing? And if I was. If I was actually doing that thing, picking up the phone, calling that person, networking with that group, or launching that website or taking that first step or having that conversation with my spouse or whoever, what is the one thing that I'm not doing that if I were, would most move me towards my goals?

Yeah, those are great. Those are great. Jim, when you hear the word successful, what do you think of?

Yeah, you know, interestingly or I should say ironically. The thing that I think of is what I would imagine that the world planted into my mind initially, it's guys like people like Steve Jobs. But that's not how I define success. I think that's what most people think of, like somebody who just changed the world, right? And it's amazing. But when you look at what his goals were and what he based his values like, his values were nothing like mine. I mean, he stepped on people. He denied his own daughter. Right? I mean, just I wouldn't want his. Have wanted his life for. In a million years, you know, for $10 million, I wouldn't take his life. You know what I think of as successful as somebody who is living out their values, living their life the way that they define however they define success.

Great answer, great answer. We're at that point now in the podcast now, Jim, where we're going to put you on the spot, ask you for a tip of the week, a website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go improve their businesses, improve their lives. I think your mentorship, this podcast has been invaluable. And this is going to be the kind of podcast that people should bookmark and listen to probably quarterly, to get them really thinking and engaged in their own lives and have those productive pauses and really not sort of have this shame about failure. Because I think that culturally speaking, other cultures don't have shame about failure. You go to places like Israel, they love it, they embrace it. They're like, great, good for you. Your startup failed. Great. No big deal. What are you gonna do next? Like, they're excited about the next thing. So, Jim, what do you got in.

Terms of a tip of the week?

Tip of the week?

Yeah. It would be to do that productive pause. And you can do this for listener. You can do this right now. I mean, you can hit pause on this podcast right now, or as soon as this podcast is over, you can do this. But ask yourself that question out loud. What's holding me back? Just ask. Just ask yourself that question right now. I would suggest you answer that out loud to yourself. If you're in a group of people, you might want to journal on it, you know, write it down instead. That's another great way to sort of flesh this out. But I would encourage people. You will get so much value out of that, I promise you. I guarantee you, if you finish that conversation with yourself, because it's not one answer, you go, okay, what is holding me back? You say, well, you know, it's my doubt around, I don't know, starting that business right. You go, okay. And then the fictitious coach sitting next to you or me, imagine me or Mark or Scott sitting next to you and says, okay, well, what are you going to do about it? Or what can you do about it? Well, I guess I could call the Small Business Development center, or I could reach out to a good friend of mine who's already succeeded at that. Or I could create a business plan. There's all kinds of things. Okay, so one of you, the next question might be, okay, when are you going to do it? Well, right now, I guess, you know, I can, I can Google it on my phone. The SBDC Small Business Development Center. And you know, so you don't stop with the line of questioning until you come to action. Until an action. One thing that you can do right now. So that's, that's my tip of the week.

Phenomenal. Scott. Todd, what's your tip of the week? Wait, let me unmute you here. Here we go.

I'm good. Okay, I want everybody to check this book out. It's kind of an older book, but it's called the Magic of Thinking Big. David Schwartz wrote the book some time ago and really it kind of ties into what we were talking about today. And I can tell you that when I was kind of in that, the down and out period, man, this book really got me thinking, like, seeing how important it is to think big. Not little things, but big things. Check it out.

I just had lunch with a guy a couple of days ago and he brought up that book. It's just, this is a very, very successful man. Great book. I read that years ago. Love it. Great recommendation, Scott.

Thanks.

Yeah, I remember when I was in my dark period in 2010 and had to sell the house and, and really just cut down on my personal overhead and sort of at that crossroads like, you know, look what I've done to my family and making all these bad choices. One of the books that I read that really kind of helped me through it was the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. And so I don't know, check that out. Have you read that book? It's kind of woo, woo.

But I've not read it. You know, that's been recommended. I need to read that book because I've heard a lot of people, very successful people recommend it. So I need to add that to my list.

Yeah. But also my tip of the week is. Learn more about Jim Harshaw@jimharshawjr.com and watch the TEDx talk and just, you know, give you, like, a daily motivational practice. Just going to that website every single day and checking out the blog, going on the podcast and just engaging in the the wisdom of a Jim Harshaw Jr. So, Jim, thanks so much. I want to remind all the listeners, today's podcast is sponsored by TLFolio.com which stands for tax lien, folio, not Tate Litchfield T L Folio the land.

The landfolio.

Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, the landfolio.com. because if you want unlimited funds, it's a great place to put your note up and get it cashed out and then have that passive income revert back to you in 12 to 18 months and then just redeploy the capital. Learn more@tlfolio.com and also, please, the only way we're going to get the quality of guests like a Jim Harshaw from jimharshawjr.com is if you do us three little favors. You got to subscribe, you got to rate, and you got to review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of your view to supportlandgeek.com we're going to send you for free the $97 passive income launch kit. So please do that. Jim, are we good?

We're good. That was fantastic. Mark, Scott, thanks for having me on.

Thank you so much.

We're good, Mark.

All right, I'll let you lead us out of here.

You know what we got to do, Mark? We have to make sure that we let freedom ring.

Pretty good. Pretty good. Jim's like, okay, these guys are geeky, but not too bad.

You should have seen the old days, man.

Yeah, we've really refined it, you know, just another. Another story, you know? Kaizen. Continuous improvement. All right, thanks, everybody.