Overcoming Growing Pains To Scale Your Land Business

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek, with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and on this week's Roundtable podcast, we've got the technician, Eric Peterson. Eric, how are you doing?

Good. Happy to be here.

Awesome, awesome. We've got Bearland. Aaron Bearland. How are you doing?

Hey, I'm doing good this week. Thanks for having me.

Great, great. We've got the most feared woman in the country, the terrorist hunter, Mimi Schmidt. Mimi, how are you?

I'm doing great. How are you, Mark?

Great, great. Good to see you. And of course, I love it when you call me Big Papa Tate Litchfield. Tate, how are you doing?

Good. Happy to be on the show again.

Great, great. And, and of course, you know him, you love him. The Land Geek Flight School Sherpa, Scott Todd from scotttodd.net landmodo.com and most importantly, if not automating your Craigslist and your Facebook postings, postingdomination.com thelandgeek Scott Todd. How are you, Mark? I'm great.

How are you?

I'm good, I'm good. Today's episode is sponsored by lots of. So if you don't know what lot stands for, it means looking over Tate's shoulder. We're really excited about this new segment that is coming to a iPhone or Android phone or, you know, screen. It's going to be a series. Tate, do you want to describe what lots is?

Yeah, absolutely. So lots is it's basically the opportunity to sit on my shoulder or be a fly on the wall as I walk you through certain aspects of the business in my day to day life. So we might cover anything from a deal review to opening the mail, to meeting with an intake manager. You get to see how I handle situations, what the numbers are for this week, and just kind of get a real life view of what my land business looks like, how it's running, and hopefully you can learn from it. So it's, it's a fun concept. I think there's a lot to be learned, but, you know, it's, it'll be coming, like Mark said to a phone near you. I think we'll be ready, Mark, in about five or six days. So by the time this comes out, it should be available.

Wow. Wow. If you want to learn how to get it for free, just go to landgeek.com training it is included with our new flight school, so that's a little bonus. So learn about flight school and flight school live. Just go to Langeek.com training. Alright, so this week's topic is a really interesting one. Mimi, you want to kind of walk us through it?

Well, I'm starting to feel some pain points in my business and I know I need to automate or delegate and so things like I need to stop using a free version of my CRM and start paying for one that can handle more templates. I need to find a way to collect payments on my website, I need to increase my mailings, I probably need to pay for another marketing platform. So I have all these outflows. I have to decide if I want to spend the money and it's painful. I've been doing okay without them and so I'm having a hard time making the plunge and spending more money, I guess. I know it should be a short term pain, right, because there'll be a better long term gain, but I'm having a hard time jumping off the cliff, I guess.

Yeah, no, this is an entrepreneurial dilemma. Absolutely. So I think it's really worth sort of unpacking and kind of looking at it from some different angles. Bareland Aaron, what are your thoughts?

There are a lot of places that you can experience this and of course at all levels of the business, you know, there becomes that point at which, you know, maybe you're using Google Voice and it starts to become cumbersome once you, you know, start to get some volume, you always have to press one, you know, it may, may not sound as professional on the customer side of the call, that sort of thing. So then you need to make that decision. Is it time for me to switch to, you know, like one of the paid services? That's just an example of it and it's actually something I'm working on right now. Probably used Google Voice for as long as I, you know, as much as I could get out of it, you know, so, you know, but there's a cost there and is that particular service going to increase my revenue or is it a service that is going to increase the perception of my business in a way that's meaningful to me even if it doesn't increase revenue? So those are kind of two things you can look at is like, you know, as you reach certain growing pains areas, are you going to receive a financial benefit from this or is it simply is your customer going to receive a benefit that has an intrinsic value, that sort of thing? So there's two different kind of things that I look at when I'm looking at those things and it is a tough decision because hey, you're going to be spending more money. And in the short term, at least your balance sheet might show that, you know, you went the wrong way. But, you know, sometimes you can do some calculations, sometimes you just have to try things because nothing's permanent. You can always reverse that decision if it doesn't work out like you like. So, you know, the growing pains are always a good thing, even when they don't feel like it. So at all levels of the business, we all experience it, but, you know, you can look at it from as many ways as possible and make the best informed decision for your particular business.

I like it. I like it. Eric Peterson, how would you help Mimi with her growing pains?

So, I mean, I always enjoy. Well, I don't know about enjoy, but like, it's easy for me to make a decision to, you know, say, add a subscription or increase the subscription level when I know it's going to affect productivity. In other words, it's going to make a process easier, or maybe it's going to allow me to automate something that I couldn't otherwise, etc. So in those scenarios, it's almost like a no brainer for me. I mean, obviously there's dollar value associated with it, but oftentimes I move past that pretty quickly. But I think the marketing side of the business is a little bit different because you don't necessarily see that kind of reward in terms of freeing up your time depending on what you're doing, right? If you're hiring a va, of course that might free up some time, but if you're maybe purchasing some other subscription or service, you know, that's an effect really, as Aaron was describing, more for your customer. And you may not see a result right away, but sometimes, you know, I've spent money to test different services in kind of the marketing field as well. And, you know, you do kind of evaluate it for a while and determine, you know, do I want to spend this extra $50 or $80 a month or whatever it is and, you know, kind of track the results over time. But I think, you know, it's a tough thing always, right? Because if you're paying yourself from your business or, you know, it's your livelihood, or you just want to be able to buy more land and you're spending this money elsewhere, but you've got to kind of balance that out and say, well, you know, is the reward going to help me have more money to spend on land or to pay myself or whatever it may be.

Okay, all right, I like it. Big Papa Tate, Litchfield. How do you think about it.

You know, I kind of agree with what everybody said up to this point. It's hard to commit to spending more money. I mean, especially when you could use that money immediately to maybe generate an extra sale. But I'm a big believer in growth and I think you always need to be working or striving to hit that next milestone. And you'll get to a point in this business where you hit a glass ceiling and you can't grow anymore without bringing on more expenses. It's just inevitable. And it takes a lot of guts and a lot of courage and a lot of evaluation to make the decision to pay the extra money for these services that make our life easier. I remember years ago, Mark, you actually told me, if it makes your life easier, then it's worth the money. And that kind of stood out to me. If it helps me become more productive or efficient, then yes, hire the intake manager, pay for the extra marketing platform, send out more offers, do whatever you need to to increase your quality of life. Because if your quality of life is good, then your business will be good.

No, absolutely. Absolutely. Scott. Todd, what's your thoughts on this?

I mean, there's a lot of good advice on here and it's hard to argue with any of it. In fact, you can't. But I would just say this is the way that I've always seen, especially outsourced labor. I'm not going to talk about softwares because, well, I mean, you're going to ultimately have to decide what's the right software platforms for you. And you mentioned marketing platform. I hope that you're including Lanmoto in that because of course, you know, it's a community effort. But that said, here's the deal. Whenever I think about adding people to the equation first, I always think about adding people over outsourcing, so. Or automation. I'm sorry. So I'd rather outsource over automate first because I can put someone in place now, like I can have someone tomorrow doing work for me. Whereas automation always takes up two weeks to kind of get perfected. So people first and then automation second. Consideration is the way that I look at it is the people that are working for me, well, they're not really working for me unless I have the deal flow there to support them. Okay, so I'm not just gonna go hire an employee for 40 hours a week and say, well, I don't know if I have work or not. I'm not gonna try to fill their schedule with 40 hours. They're going to have A specific task. And what's going to happen is that workload is going to be paid for by the deal flow. Think about it like, you know, due diligence. My due diligence team, well, they don't work unless I have property for them to do due diligence on. And then over a long period of time, I've determined that it's about A$16 per property investment. So look, I'm spending hundreds, if not thousands of dollars on a property. What's another $16? Hmm. Closing and having an intake manager. That intake manager can probably do one, you know, one transaction an hour, basically on the. On the closing side with all of the miscellaneous follow ups, et cetera. If I pay them, I mean, $18 an hour or $20 an hour, that's 18 or 20 again on the property. So, you know, they're not necessarily working unless I have properties and I'm buying. Now, the downside of that is that you could come across properties that go through due diligence or go through the intake manager, and then you decide not to buy them for whatever reason, or the person freezes and doesn't do it. So if that's your concern, maybe there's ways that you can negotiate instead of an hourly rate, a per unit rate, and that might help you to keep your cost down. But the last thing to consider, and Tate kind of mentioned this, is whatever volume you have today, you're going to be limited to that volume. And if you want to scale, well, then you can't scale. You can't scale by cutting expenses. Right. You know, that's the thing is I've seen businesses where they try to grow, but at the same time, they try to cut their expenses. And you cannot grow while cutting expenses. The two do not go hand in hand. So the thing I would challenge you with, Mimi, is this. Sit down, write out what that goal is. What is your big, massive goal? The big hairy, audacious goal. What is that thing? And then when you look at it, you'll be like, man, I'm about. My goal is to make a million dollars a year.

Perfect.

Well, you're not going to make a million dollars a year by not paying anybody. Okay? You're going to have to pay people. And then when you look at it from the different perspective, the larger goal, you realize, well, man, for me to get to a million, I'm going to have to spend this amount of money. It becomes peanuts.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think it's also really interesting to see, Mimi, what is your effective Hourly rate. So we kind of like want to approach it just by like a spock logic. I can't tell you how many times when I, when I first started and I would have to go through this emotional, you know, roller coaster ride with myself because I fell in love with like my own bank account. I checked the bank every day and I just wanted to see, keep going up and up, right? And then there'd be like this, like this, this emotional ping of, oh, wait a second. It's okay to buy land, but you know, to invest in that software, invest in upgrading my computer or, you know, you know, my first va, like, I'm like, well, you know, I could keep that money, right? And it wasn't until I went and really, you know, had a mentor who just said, you know, just logically looked at it, he's like, you're just, you know, you're applying an emotional issue to a logical issue. You'll always lose. And that's when I was kind of got to that next level where I started delegating first and then outsourcing and then automating just like Scott said. And that way that was the only way I got to the next level. Otherwise I was just kind of stuck and kind of sucking the joy out of my own business. In a way.

I'll see the new, the higher reach a new high in my bank account and I'll print screen it because I'm still so excited, right? But then I don't want to spend the money and I have all these pain points because I can't move faster, so. Yeah, exactly.

Hey, Mark, I just want to say something. Like, every month, there's not a month that goes by where I don't look at how much money I pay out to my sales team and like, do a double take. Like, literally the money that, like, there's so many months, the money that I give them, that I pay them is well beyond the money that I took out of my business and into my bank account. Sometimes I'm wondering, like, are they making more money than me? And it's just because of the way I do my accounting. I just take a set salary out, right? They're not because they're driving me forward. And I can tell you that when you have a good team, that team pays for itself. If that team or that software is not paying for itself, you, you should get rid of it and move on. But if they're good, they will pay for themselves and they should pay for them with a 10x multiplier.

Yeah, absolutely. I had an argument with the guy the other day about what he was paying for somebody in his business and what I was paying for someone in my business, and I was paying double. And he's like, mark, you could. You know, you're way overpaying. I'm like, yeah, exactly. I'm like, I want to overpay. Because if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. Right. And this way I don't have to deal with turnover. I'd actually. I want it to be at the point where, like, they would never want to leave. Right. Because they're never gonna get a better situation than this. And then on the opposite side of the coin is that they're gonna feel an ownership aspect to the business as well, to want to see it grow because they don't want to disappoint someone that's, you know, compensating them so well. So, you know, it's. It's sort of a different. Yeah, monkeys do like bananas. I know. Elephants, you pay or whatever. Anyways, you don't want to pay peanuts. So, you know, so it is. It is. You know, you get to a point. And, Mimi, I've gotten to this point now where you hate cash, right? The cash in your bank is terrible because it's earning nothing. So every time you can reinvest, that is going to be a better return on capital than just kind of sitting in the bank. Now, the issue, you can make the argument, well, that capital I'm going to buy more land with. And I would make a counter argument and say, that's great, but why are you using your own money? Use someone else's money then, because that's going to fuel your growth as well. And I don't know. Does that help?

Definitely it does. We spending a lot of money this afternoon. It sounds like.

Maryland. Aaron said, if it doesn't work out, if you don't get a return on it, you can reverse it. Right. You know, Eric Peterson just signed up for his second account in Geek Pay, his third account, Geek Pay. Right. So I'm sure there's, like, a little sting in his heart to do that, but look how much time he's saving automating, you know, collecting that money. So it was probably a simple decision.

It was very easy.

Yeah. Yeah.

So even.

Even as.

As much as you tortured Eric last year, he still likes you. I don't get it.

No, I. You know, Scott, I personally apologize to his mom. I think a lot of it was just the repair. You gotta look in these relationships. You gotta put in the time.

Okay. Yeah, you gotta harass him to like, to where his mom gets involved. And then you gotta apologize like you woke the mama bear. You know, we won't go on the Mark apology tour again.

I remain. But I. But I took the time and I went on the apology tour. And I think it's paid off. Dividends.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

I'm just a better person.

No.

Okay.

Sounds good to me.

Yeah. And it's less awkward. Cause there's always that point in time where like, you're at boot camp with Eric and I, you know, I always kind of think, like, is he just gonna sucker punch me at some point and like. And just have like, on his knuckles. Jot not pro spelled out like it could happen.

I mean, listen, as much. As much publicity as we have given. Jot not pro.

Right.

Like John. I mean, like, I don't even really remember what they do anymore. Oh, it's a scanner app. Look, it's a five star, 4.9 rated. 5, 4.9 rating app.

For Pete's sake, Scott, this is not about jot not. You know, this is about when it was early on and it was Scott or team Mark. And we know which team he went to. Yeah, yeah.

He chose the better team. John not pro. I think they owe us because they've got like 13,000 reviews. It has nothing to do, I'm sure, with the quality of their app. I think it has to do with all the publicity that we've given them. That you've given them and Eric have given them. I mean, maybe you guys are on the shape for that. I don't know. We might need an ethics investigation.

Yeah, I don't know. You know, the molar Jot not pro investigation is coming for sure thing ever. Yeah. So, Mimi, was this helpful?

Yes, very much so. Thank you. Give me the little push I need.

So what was your biggest takeaway, though?

Well, I usually hire first before I go with the software, so that was useful. And 10x right. That the person ought to pay for themselves by 10 times. Both of those were helpful. Yeah, I guess those are it. And that just if it makes my life easier, then I ought to do it.

Yeah, there you go. You can always make more money, Mimi, but you can't get more time. Which is really the, you know, the fundamental reason to do this business. Really. Right. Because we got it 90% automated. And it's just. It's passive income without headaches, no renters, no rehabs, no renovations or rodents. And that kind of segues into our tip of the week. Mimi, what's our tip of the week?

Okay, I put it in the chat. Now I just need to press. So there we go. So last week I gave a Colorado hint. So this week I'm giving a hint for those of us that have property near water. So it's the FEMA flood zone GIS map. So if you're doing due diligence or, you know, your due diligence team is doing due diligence on a particular property, the map isn't as sharp as some of the other GIS services, but you can definitely put the address in there without a house number, of course, you know, and then see where the flood zone is. I use it for. I have the due diligence team make pictures for properties that I sell in Florida that I have added to the pictures I use to advertise.

Oh, this is cool.

You'll see how it's not. I don't know why it's not as sharp as some of the others, but it's still lets me know if it's in the flood zone or not. There are a lot of different GIS sites that are coming out. They're called the rage now.

Huh? Very cool. I love it. I love it. Great. Tip of the week. I have another tip. If you want to meet all of us in Scottsdale, come to boot camp, go to the landgeek.combootcamp and, you know, two and a half days of land investing, immersion and Mimi, are you going to be there?

It's my three year anniversary. I wouldn't miss it.

Yeah.

So number 10.

It'll be number 10 for me.

Number 10, you can meet Mimi and she can actually show you all these geeky things, which is pretty cool. Do so anyways, learn more. Go to landgeek.combootcamp I thought this was a great podcast and I want to thank all the listeners. Please support the podcast. It really, really helps. It really makes a difference. All you have to do is subscribe, rate, and review the podcast. Send us a screenshot of that review to supportlandgeek.com we're going to send you for free the $97 passive income launch kit course. And yeah, Scott, are we good?

We're great.

Mark Fairland.

Fabulous.

Eric.

Good.

Good. Mimi?

Yeah, great. Thanks.

Tate. Yep.

Good podcast.

All right, so everybody be on the lookout for lots and certainly schedule your call with the zen master Mike Zano or the nightcap meister Scott Bossman to see how you can get it for free. Thelangeek.com training all right, are we doing this.

Let's go, Mark. One, two, three.

Let freedom ring. Oh, my God.

That was the best one ever.

It was good.

It's always really good.

Ring. That was bear land, by the way.

Joke's never gonna get old.

It really doesn't, does it? All right, well, well, thanks, everyone. So I assume that Tate, you've already cycled today.

I'm actually going to go this afternoon.

It was.

It's going to be 80 degrees out here in Vegas, so. Going to go out, work on my tan, have a nice ride in the afternoon, get some lunch.

Nice, nice. Eric, what about you?

I already had lunch. Just be working the rest of the afternoon. Picking up the kids from school maybe.

Nice. Very nice. Mimi, what about you?

Working out. Working out at 4. 15 and then I'm taking a beekeeping class with a friend of mine.

Nice.

That's cool.

Yeah. Now, you know, now that I work from home, I can do some cool things like that where I couldn't have ever done that before.

I can imagine. Just being your life insurance agent.

My neighbors are gonna love me.

I just got a. I just got an advertisement. You can order bees now through tractor supply company and they'll deliver them right to your doorstep.

Are you doing because you're interested in bees or interested in the honey?

Yes, yes. It's a way to give back too, right?

Because they're dying. You got to protect the honeybees. This is a big deal.

It is.

And I love them.

They all die.

That's still a thing now the honeybees are still dying.

Oh, yeah.

They become endangered.

Yeah.

Scott, are you flying today on the boat?

No, it's kind of rainy, cold, miserable here today. So basically I'm playing with some new technology today. This afternoon. Gotta work out. And then see this little white box right there?

Right there.

Oh, that thing is a dream box come true, man.

What is it now? How, like, there's lots, like, looking over Tate's shoulder. This is called toe toys of envy for me.

Yes, yes.

So this little white box right here, what it does is it creates its own WI FI network. And then I can take my phone, for example, and I can connect my phone to that white device over there. And that white device will take the video signal from my phone or my camera that's up there or the new camera that's right there. It will take the signal and it will overlay the track and I can do either streaming Facebook or YouTube streaming live, or it will record all of the video segments. I can produce it right there from an iPad, drag drop, do, boop boop. Play with it, create it beautifully. Or it will take all of the video tracks, record them into one file, and I can go in, I can edit and slice. So think about boot camp, man. Like, literally, we could set up. We're not going to do this, but we could. We could set up cameras throughout, like the VIP room and record all of the sessions and then go back and slice them and with the transitions. And it will be beautiful.

Did anybody catch that, by the way, while he's telling that story that he mentioned? IPad. Eric did.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Unfortunately, they haven't caught to the surface yet. They're. They're coming, though. I know they are. I've already complained. They will do it. PC sales are continue to rise. People are leaving Apple, and luckily I had an iPad, so I didn't have to go buy one because otherwise I'd be like, that system's out.

All right, great. Well, thanks, everybody. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna eat a salad. I'm gonna keep it light. Go eat a salad. I don't know. I'm sure there's a Panera joke in there somewhere.

I never have salads, Mark.

That's true. That's true. All right, thanks, everybody.

Bye.

Bye.