The Best Of Roundtable - All Things Marketing

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That is, if you aren't working, you aren't making money. The art of passive income podcast is the solution. Discover passive income models so you can enjoy life on your own terms. Let freedom ring Land. Geek Nation. Hey, it's Mark Podolski. I'm really excited about our Best of roundtable series for the month of July. As you know, myself, the other lanky coaches, we take the entire month of July off. And so Rossi, our chief problem officer, had a brilliant idea. Instead of just doing a podcast episode, a best of, we're doing a best of compilation theme. This week's theme is marketing. Because at the end of the day, it's all about The M&M's mailing and marketing in our land business. But the mailing is really just another way of marketing for us to buy land. And then, of course, the marketing on the back end is to sell land. So please enjoy. How do we know how many ads to put up or will always vary depending on the results we get, or lack thereof, for that matter? And because I've always been, for years picking on Eric to go first, Tate, how many ads to put up and then will it vary depending on the results we get? Or lack thereof, for that matter?

All right, well, the answer is yes to that question. Now, the answer is you need a lot of ads. I guess there's some scaling topics that we could go into more detail on. But I always tell people, if you are unsure of what to do in the land business, like if you sit down to work and you think, what do I do today? The answer should always be market. So how many ads should you put up? As many as you can get away with. And certain platforms are going to kind of prevent you from going wild or going nuts with the amount of ads that you could post. And your job as a land investor or somebody who is selling an item is to kind of toe that line. We constantly run into issues, and that's because we are figuring out what the limits are for posting ads. I want to know how many ads I can get away with without getting slapped on the wrist. And the only way to figure that out is trial and error. So when we have a certain type of property, we know exactly where to post it. We know what to say in the headline. We know how to price it. And that's because we kept our data and our metrics on all of this. But when it comes to how many ads, the answer is more than you think. And you can never have enough more than you think.

You can never have enough. Push the limits.

Right?

And I like that. I like that.

I mean, Mark, I was talking to a guy just this morning, and we were looking at his. His metrics from his marketing, and the one thing that we took away was, wow, you've got an amazing amount of property. They're great parcels. They're in the right area. They're priced appropriately. Why aren't these selling? So we did a deep dive into where he's posting, how many views he's getting, those kind of things. And what we learned is it's as simple. The solution is very simple. You simply need to double down on what you're doing. And I guarantee that if he does this, he's going to sell way more property in the coming two or three weeks than he ever thought possible. And it's all because he's pushing the boundaries of what is technically allowed or acceptable.

Yeah, yeah, no, no, absolutely. Absolutely. It's interesting because, you know, it's kind of beyond the scope of the question, but I personally want to know, in this current market, if I said to you, Tate, you can pick only one platform to market on and focus on.

That.

Excluding the buyers list, because I know that's always. That is the platform excluding the buyers list, where would you say you would market?

I, you know, each one of the platforms that I work heavy, which would be like Lanmoto, Craigslist, Facebook, you know, some of the other listing websites, they all kind of serve a different purpose. So to just pick one is. You're putting me in a pinch here, Mark. This is uncomfortable territory right now.

All right, let's pick. Pick three. Your top three.

It's easy.

It's easy. I'm going to go with. I'm gonna go with my boy Scott Todd in Land Moto, because I made some money off him last week. So. Thank you, Scott. I appreciate you selling my land. It's always a pleasure when you're. When you put your hard money into my pocket. So I appreciate that. I also would say Facebook, and then I like. I'm starting to play around on Craigslist again. And Craigslist has kind of been this area that has always been good to me, but recently it went through an overhaul, and now I'm back on the Craigslist train.

Okay, and when you say Facebook, do you say Marketplace or groups?

Marketplace.

Marketplace. Okay. Taria, putting in the reps. Harris, how many ads you put up or will always depend on the results you get, or lack thereof, for that matter.

So Tate said all. Most of the great Things that I thought I was going to say, but I remember going through flight school and Scott Todd, people, that was a common question. How many ads should I put up? How much? How much? And his whole thing is more than you think. And you. That doesn't really ring true until you start actually doing the marketing and you think you have enough ads out there. But what helps us drive the amount of ads we want is the number of leads that we're actually generating.

So.

So if we notice we have tons of ads out there, but they're not generating enough leads, we will look at the ads and see exactly if there's something wrong with them. But then we also may just start plastering with more ads. We try to get around some of the limitations on some of the platforms. Like some may limit you. For this particular account, you can only post X amount of ads. So we try to get more accounts. So we try to get around the limitations of just one account by adding multiple accounts to the picture just so we can plaster with as many ads as we possibly can.

Yeah, but Tree, how do you define. How do you define a good ad? How many leads in your mind would you determine, okay, this is a good ad, or this ad's not producing enough leads. I need to change the headline or maybe the pricing or something.

A good ad for us is one that has helped us sell a property. So if that ad was posted and it could generate thousands of leads, but if we don't actually get to sell the property, we would consider that a decent ad. But a good ad for us is one that was posted. We got, I don't know, whatever amount of leads we have to sell a property. I had to go back and look at our metrics for last month, but however many leads we need to sell a property, if that ad produced it and we sold the property, we'd say that was a great ad.

Okay. And then back at you, the same question that I asked Tate, your top three marketing platforms.

Right now, our top three would be Facebook Marketplace, Lamoto, and Land Flip.

And Land Flip. Okay, look at Land Flip getting Anomaly action. I haven't heard that name in years.

Yeah.

Wow.

That one. That one's those top. Those three produce for us on a regular basis.

Okay. And have you been playing at all in Craigslist at all?

So we backed off when it kind of tanked and we kind of diverted our marketing dollars to other platforms. So we're not opposed to going back on Craigslist. You know, we hear from the wonderful people who are on it that it's actually working again.

So, Tate, are you recommending it or are you still dabbling? You're not fully making a recommendation.

Let me see what Eric says, because I know he's playing around on there, too.

All right, Eric, what do you think? Same question to you. How many ads to put up?

Okay.

Okay, so we'll start from the beginning. I love the answer. More ads than you think. I think that's really important in marketing. Marketing is all about getting in front of people's eyes. In our case, since we're talking about digital mediums, right, Having them see your ad. So if we put two ads out, what are our chances of people seeing those two ads? If we put 20 ads out, our chances are better. So the more ads we can put out, the better off we're going to be. I think that we do have to take into consideration the platforms that we're on, because, as has been already mentioned, you know, I mean, certain platforms, it only makes sense to put one ad per property, right? If you're going to put an ad on Land Moto or Land Flip or one of the land selling websites, more or less, you're going to put one ad for that. That particular property. But on a place like Facebook or Craigslist or some other kind of classified ad website, you can put multiple ads for a single property, and that's how we're going to reach a bigger audience. I think another important thing to keep in mind when we start talking about this idea of more ads than you think is you can't just take the same ad and plaster it everywhere. We're not achieving our highest potential that way. If we write a generic ad for a certain type of property and we broadcast across all the platforms the same.

Ad.

We'Re limiting who we're reaching. So we start to think about our audience and targeting ads for each. Each audience we want to reach. So if we want to talk to truck drivers, we should be writing ads that connect with truck drivers or ads that connect with people that want to do recreational activities on the property, like riding four wheelers or dirt bikes or something like that. So we think through these different audiences, and that can come from what we learn in talking to leads. We can begin to understand these different types of audiences and who they are. And writing ads that speak to them and putting them on these platforms is where we're going to get the best reach and the widest reach to bring in those leads and convert to sales.

I love that. That makes me think of one of Scott Todd's Favorite websites, which is Reddit.com youm can go on one of these subreddits and you can just eavesdrop on one of these passionate subjects. Let's say it's RVs and you can really see how they're talking the language that market is using and apply that to your ad. Now, you can't be salesy or marketing on the actual Reddit because they'll knock, they'll kick you out. But you can certainly join the conversation if you have anything to add a value to it. But you can certainly then use that in your ads. So then, Eric, back to you, your top three marketing platforms.

I think Facebook, everybody's seen good results there. So that's up there in the top. I'm also going to say landflip, it's been extremely strong for us over the past probably 12 months. So that's. It's a great place. And of course, Land Moto is also another excellent place to be listing your properties. So those would be my top three. Kind of like Tate said, we have begun to kind of dabble back in the Craigslist world. Results are, you know, we'll see where it all goes, but we're starting to be able to get some ads to stick and we're seeing a little bit of success. But I would say at this point, it's too early, at least in my business, to know really where that's going to go. It used to be an excellent source of leads and sales for us, but it definitely has kind of fallen back, and I'm hoping we can turn that around here in the coming months.

All right, so you're going to dabble, then you're going to get back on based on Tate's recommendation?

Yeah, we have been, actually.

Oh, you have been. Okay, great, Scott. Todd, how many ads do you put up?

We put up quite a bit because we're also supporting Lanmoto. We're supporting other things. I think that one of the mistakes that people make when it comes to ads is, as has been said, you need a lot of ads, but really more than what you need than a lot of ads is you need a lot of eyes on those ads. Okay, so one of the mistakes that I think people make is, and I'm just going to use this as a hypothetical, may not apply to you, but let's say that you are marketing land in Elko County, Nevada. Well, Elko has its own Craigslist, for example, and it has its own, you know, Facebook marketplace. I mean, you can put Facebook marketplaces anywhere the Reality is, is there's like, I don't know, 20,000 people in Elko, Nevada, right? Like, there's 20,000 people. That's not a lot of eyes. You might say, well, it's close. Yeah, it's close to the land, but it's not a lot of eyes. So where do I want to go? I want to go to the big cities. I want to go to the top 60 cities in America. I want to go to salt lake city, for example, or Reno or Vegas or Sacramento, Modesto. I want to go where there's lots of people, lots of eyes searching for things, because it's a numbers game. And so I don't necessarily always need 150 ads a day going out. I mean, people used to think that way. I need 150 ads a day. That's not the reality. The reality is that you need more ads than what you think you need, but you also need more eyes on it. So now when you place these ads in these bigger cities, you have to think through some key things. Your headline and also that image that goes along with it. And if you really think about. If you're really getting, you know, deep into the woods here and you think about it, so everybody's listening. Their ads in these platforms, you have to stand out. What's going to stand out? The picture and the headline. Those two things alone. And I see so many times people say, you know, one acre land in Elko, that's boring. Okay. Like that there's nothing there. Okay, well, what if I'm looking for one and a half acre? You know, like, I need to. I need to be able to get a chance to. To connect with somebody. And the headline and the picture do do that. So I have noticed, even through land moto, that people are. Are using or deliberately putting better thought behind their headlines, and they're also putting better thought between about their pictures. There's a lot of EAs out there that will put, you know, 3D graphics on the image or on the images on the satellite maps. All of those things help and to tell the story. But that's really what you're doing, is you're telling a story about the land, not to sell the land, but to get someone's attention so that they reach out to you. And one of the things that terea said that I thought I thought was interesting, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but she defined a good ad as one that led to a sale. And I would say, look, if you have a thousand leads, come in on one ad, and you don't sell the property. That's not the ad. That's the salesperson. That's what I would say, because I would be like, I'm capturing the lead. I'm still winning. I'm winning because I got someone's email address. Now, it didn't mean led to a sale. Maybe there was a disconnect between my marketing message of what I was putting out there and what people thought that that is real. You know, like. And I've had that happen. I had a va. They posted an ad mark where they. They said, you know, mobile home lot. And they posted it the ad in Tampa, Florida. But guess what? The land wasn't anywhere near Tampa, Florida. The land was like in a completely different spot. So we had all these leads come in. But guess what I got. I got leads of people who want to buy land. So now is that a winner? Winning ad depends on how you judge success. Is success by the sale or is it by the lead? I like the leads. I also like the sales, but leads turn into sales.

Yeah, I mean, I agree with you. I think it's really interesting, you know, if you're going to go on. Well, first of all, you know, to give Scott Todd some props about Land Moto Land Moto is a spike store because all the land sites jacked up their prices. And Scott's like, well, I can do this too. He makes no money on Land Moto. That being said, it's like his charitable contribution to the lanky community. But that being said, if you think. And I don't care what lan platform it is, Lanmoto. If you're on land, Flip lands of America, any of them. If you're getting the free account, you might as well have no account because it makes no sense. It's like saying, hey, you know what? I'm going to put a billboard up in rural Elko because it's free. And maybe someone will drive by and see it. Maybe I'll get a call versus I'll put a billboard up in Manhattan and millions of people will see it.

Yeah.

Which one's the better investment? So marketing is an investment. You cannot penny pinch your way to wealth. It's one of my biggest pet peeves when people won't invest their own success. And marketing is an investment. If you're looking at it as an expense, you're looking at it wrong. You've got the wrong mindset. At the end of the day, those leads convert to sales. And if you're not getting enough eyeballs you won't get enough leads. Don't sell yourself short out of fear or doubt. If you bought the asset, 25, 30 cents, a dollar, you owe it to the world and yourself. Get it out there and let people see it. The free counts. No one's going to see it. You're just a needle in the haystack.

I mean, Mark, there's a lot of value in what you just said there. And one of the things that I would also say is that it is amazing to me that one of the biggest complaints that I hear from people, from buyers, land buyers, is that they'll say, well, I reached out to this person. They never contacted me back. And there are so many missed opportunities because maybe you didn't take them seriously or this one seems too easy. I'm scared to sell it to them. What do you have to sell? Like, I've never once been scared to sell to somebody because the worst case scenario is I just get them, give them a refund and get them out of my life, which we just did. I, I gave someone a refund just to get them out of my life a couple weeks ago just because I, I'm like, this guy's already a pain. Can we have the relationship with Noel, please? So, bless you. So, you know, basically you can get him out of your life, but don't, don't judge people. And I see that happening quite a bit is, oh, well, this guy seems too easy or too eager. I'm not going to even respond to him. Respond to everybody. I'm serious. Respond to everybody. And then, you know, don't, don't. It, it's, it, it's kind of eye opening to me too is when you're thinking about advertising and you're, you're putting your property out there, you really do you really have to stop and think about even the down payment in the message that sends, you know, I was looking at a property today and you know, some, someone I see all the time, people, they try to get, you know, 10% of the purchase price down. And okay, if it's a lower, if it's a lower transaction, that makes sense. But I'm looking at this property that was almost into six figures. They're trying to get 10% down. That's not the market. Okay, Like, I know you want it to be the market, but that's not the market. And so it's not always about getting that $4,000 down payment so that you can get your money back out of the land. That's very greedy and selfish. And the customers, they see it and they laugh it off, and they are not even going to respond to you. They are speaking. If you're not getting leads, it's oftentimes it's not the platform. What it is is the market telling you, we don't like what you're putting out there.

Yeah, that's really great advice. But back to you, Scott. Top three marketing platforms.

I never left Craigslist. I've been on Craigslist leads of leads. The ads have been slow, like, stick rate's been lower. But we never left it. We've stayed true to it. So their land Landmoto, obviously, because I'm driving traffic there. I'd say those are the two. I don't really do much with Facebook, and we drive most of our traffic through those two platforms.

Okay, yeah. That is the topic today. And I think it'd be great to just start with the Zen master. Mike Zano. What are the biggest mistakes you see in marketing? I can imagine when you're on a coaching or consulting call, like, you know, I'll just do it in a Boston accent, because I just assume they always try to do that when they talk to you. Mike, My property's not selling. I'm wicked smart. I'm putting it out on Land Moto. How come no one's buying it, Mike?

Well, oh, my gosh, that was great.

You're getting better.

So.

Well, I'm going to. Yes, I do run into that in the calls, but I want to go back to something that happens a lot of boot camp. When we would do the pricing. Remember, we would give them a property that they would buy, and then they would work together to sell it. Inevitably, it would be like, okay, the purchase price is like $2,000 or 3,000, but they'd be like, okay, we're going to get $500 down. We're going to have $500 a month. We're going to have a $500 dog fee. And they get all excited because they look it. You get all our money out in the first payment in the first month, and they get all excited. And what they don't take into account is the reality of what's going on in the market. Right? So it's their expectations of what should. What would be a great return. Right. What would, you know, what they want versus what will sell. So I think the biggest benefit about, you know, we buy these properties 25 cents on the dollar. That's great. But the real reason they sell is because we give these crazy payments that people can't they're like, what, $100 a month? What $150, $200 a month? That's all. No credit check. That's crazy. And so it's like, how low can you make that but still have a great return or a great yield or whatever metric you use? And that's what you got to look at. Not at like, hey, let me just get it all out on the first payment. I mean, that does happen to all of us at times, but it's not the normal thing, I wouldn't say. Right. I think that normally we're just plug and play. We have simple model of we buy at one price, we get a nice down payment, we get a nice dog fee, and boom, we roll it. But we don't expect to get it all at once. And I think that that could be something that hinders somebody in the beginning with marketing as their expectations.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I can imagine if you've been listening to the podcast, but you've never gone out, marketed your own property, and you hear my voice saying, 300 to 1000% returns, and it's not moving. Well, is anyone going to get mad if it's 150% return, 200% return? Something has to change to move that property. Tate Litchfield, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see in coaching clients when they're doing their marketing?

Yeah, I mean, Mike talked about making it irresistible, Right. You got to make these irresistible. I think the other one that he talked about was the numbers. It's the same reason your mailing doesn't work. Your numbers are wrong. If it's not selling well, your numbers are wrong. The market's telling you that your numbers are wrong. The other thing that prevents people from having good success is just they think that one is going to be enough. Oh, I sent it out to my buyers list one time, and nobody wanted it. So, what, only once? And how many times did you have to, you know, go test drive a vehicle before you pulled the trigger and bought it? I'm guessing more than once. Right. These things are expensive purchases for a lot of people, and most people need time to think on it. They want to talk it over. They want to make sure it's right for them, fits their needs. And so the other reason property doesn't sell is you don't give the buyer sufficient time to make that decision. Right. You got to follow up with them. There is a little bit of stocking that goes into the process of sales, and that's a big deal. So marketing can Fail on a lot of different levels. But if it's not irresistible and your numbers aren't right, you've just become a land collector.

There you go. There you go. Technician Eric Peterson. What are some of the biggest mistakes you see your clients making on these coaching calls?

I want to talk about the deal of the week for a minute. So we talk about the power of the buyers list and owning those email addresses. And I think that the mistakes I see in the deal of the week, first and foremost is your subject line or your headline of that deal. If you're not being creative, if you're not interrupting the email box with something different, it's going to get ignored, you know, and if it gets ignored, that means it's not going to get opened and you've lost the chance to sell that property. So that's the number one part of your deal of the week is having a very strong and powerful subject line. After that, you know, I mean, it's, it's all those common things we talk about in marketing.

Right.

It's the urgency. So are you going to put a countdown timer on your deal of the week? I certainly think you should. And you should probably have it on that page more than once. You know, is the offer irresistible as everyone else was already talking about? So, you know, is that because it's a low down payment or you're cutting a doc fee or you're doing something to make it attractive? Are you anchoring it to something else? Whether it's your previous pricing or something else out there on the market so that people can quickly see without having to do a ton of research, hey, this is a great deal. I better take action because that countdown timer is ticking away. Right. And another common thing I see is, you know, our students will just, they'll put just a single down payment button in that deal of the week. And I like to see it multiple places. If you think about, you know, a landing page that's maybe selling some kind of product, you're going to see that purchase button like 10 times through the page as you're scrolling through. And I think we need to follow the same model in our deal of the week, especially if we're using landing pages. So those are some of the common things that I see in the deal of the week that can get overlooked.

Yeah, I mean, you really hit like all the salient points that I think all of us see. As far as what makes marketing effective or what makes it ineffective, you've got to have a really great headline. There needs to be Scarcity. And like you said in the deal of the week, that timer there needs to be urgency, first come, first served. But we don't talk enough about that anchor. Showing them taking a screenshot of this is what other people are selling that property for, or even just anchoring it from your own discount, crossing a line out of it. They can't unsee it. Two of my favorite words in market, instant equity. Instant equity. That's how good the deal is that you're getting. All those points are really good. And the reason I am going on and on about this, Eric, is I literally think that you've left nothing else for Scott Todd to touch upon with mistakes in marketing. The challenge now for Scott to try to formulate something is just going to be phenomenal for me. Scott Todd, do you have anything else to add?

Do we have to add anything else? I mean, you know, like, can't we just call it.

We could. But you know, in all seriousness, though, like, what you did bring up in the beginning, I think is really, really critical, where you have to be flexible with your marketing. Like, I can't rigidly think just because I say WWW every single time that's going to be effective. Because if I look at my analytics on the podcast and see we're losing listeners, something has to change, the format has to change. Right? And so I do like that point of just flexibility with marketing. So I even took another one of your points. Now, what else do you have to add?

Yeah, so, like, here's a. Here's the thing is, as you're going through your marketing, one of the mistakes I think people make is that they think, okay, well, I have to do a deal of the week, okay? Like, we talk about the deal of the week all the time. There's nothing saying there can't be a deal of the day. Think about that one for a minute, right? Like, we put these artificial time horizons or these expectations, and you might say, well, Scott, that's fantastic, man. The deal of the day. I have one property. How am I supposed to do this? I got two properties. How am I supposed to do this? Well, guess what? You see, the thing is, the reality is that you're making assumptions, just like Mark is making assumptions that everybody needs the WWW without any evidence of it. So essentially, you're making an assumption that people are reading your email and they're like, virtually just hitting delete, delete, and then they're deleting it. And that is not always the case. Right. If you have, it's cool to me, like, if you have an email service provider that allows you to look at the clicks, go back and look at how many times someone clicks on an email, they might click on it five, six, seven, eight, nine times. Okay, so now let's tie in what Tate said. A little bit of stalking there. If you see someone that is clicking on an email 5, 6, 7, 8 plus times, there's something there, they have some sort. It's not a fluke. So now could you email them directly and say, hey, I just wanted to send you a note. If you have questions about this property, call me or text me. Now you're stalking them in a way, using the analytics and you're doing what Tate said, but now you're driving the conversation. Now you're pushing them a little bit. So you're using that piece. Let's also talk about go down the same path, the deal of the day, or deal every other day, whatever it is. Just because you have the same property doesn't mean that you have to. Now give them. We're going to tile Eric's thing with the countdown timer, right? There's nothing saying that the account down time has to be multiple days. It can be one day, can be till midnight tonight, and then tomorrow, it's no doc fee. Tomorrow, the next day it could be, name your down payment the next day. It could be, name your total purchase price, name your terms, half doc fee. There's so many variations in there. And again, if you're thinking this through every time you're hitting them with that message, it should change. Okay, now let's go back to the subject line. Eric talked about the subject line. So what should change in the subject line? Well, who are you writing this ad to? Remember, there's four reasons why people buy land. Which of the four are you targeting right now? And then change it tomorrow. Change it to the next group. Go after horseback riders the next day. Go after ATV riders the next day. Go after hunters. Someone that wants to build their dream property. You can rotate the message through the subject line to get a different deal of the week, a different deal of the day on the exact same property. And my favorite, just kind of clinching. This is Larry Overstreet. Larry Overstreet, when he started coaching, he's telling me, I got this one property and I don't know what to do with it. I'm like, have you sent to your list yet, your buyers list? He's like, well, I got one guy on my buyers list and you know, he's already seen the property. He wasn't interested in it. I'm like, send it anyway. He doesn't know he's the only one on the list. So he sends the deal of the week again. Guess what? They buy it. Okay? They buy it. So all of a sudden, when you can create urgency or when you kind of admit this deal might not have been there or what Mike said, I'm asking too much on the down payment or the total purchase price. Every day you can tweak something and you know you can do it in a way that you can change the down payment and still sell it for a good amount of money. Just tweak the down payment a little bit. If you need to tweak the months, tweak things every day to start tweaking if you want to do a deal today. How's that?

Yeah, that was amazing. That was amazing. And the thing I want to bring up as well is, you know, you're not the market. And, you know, just to Mike's point, just because you might need cash doesn't mean that property is going to sell for cash. You've got to be flexible. You've got to give the market what it wants and take all these things into account with your marketing and then have that Eric Peterson intensity. Think of yourself as a little mini Geico. They're showing up all the time. 15 minutes can what? We can all finish that sentence because they show up so consistently and so creatively, we don't have to have a billion dollar marketing budget to do the same thing. To Scott Todd's point, you could email them three times a day and when they're ready, you are there. The marketing needs to be consistent. It needs to be irresistible. You've got to be just showing up. What's that, Groucho Marx quote? 80% of success is just showing up. Is that right? You've got to show up, but do it consistently. And if you're going to show up consistently, take a little bit of time and do it effectively. Have all those elements in your marketing that make it an effective ad, like what Eric talked about. A strong headline, a strong call to action, scarcity, urgency, put in those countdown timers. I know Tate said some very important things too. I just don't remember them because I'm getting old. So, Tate, don't think I'm ignoring your points. It's all right.

It's okay.

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