The Land Geek Podcast #27

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Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek. And this morning I am pleased, privileged and honored to get the tax lien lady, Joanne Musa, the world's most trusted tax lien investing authority. And let me tell you, it was not easy to get her on this podcast. I had to plead, I had to beg, I had to email her assistant a thousand times. One of the most busy people ever, Joanne Musa. Thanks so much for taking time out of your extremely crazy schedule to podcast with me this morning. How are you?

Hi, Mark. I'm great. Thanks. Thanks for having me. It wasn't that bad. Was.

Wasn'T that bad. It really wasn't that bad. But I'm so thrilled to have you. So I know, I know you've been really busy and we want to talk about the what is it like investing seminar or what's going on in the next. It's like next week, isn't it?

Yes, it's next week. Next Monday. I have been really busy because two things. I've been doing my live training classes, updating one of my courses because all of my courses, I update them on some kind of regular basis. This particular course about every other year, every two to three years, I update this course with live trainings. And then my, my customers, anybody who purchases any of my courses, they get updates for life. So. Or as for. At least for as long as they stay on my subscriber list. And the other thing is that I'm getting ready to do my third workshop and conference this year, and this will be the first one on the west coast. And it is a workshop and conference. I usually speak in the morning and give a workshop, do some training on tax lien investing. And then we have other speakers and we actually have somebody that's going to be providing lunch for this seminar and an attorney who's going to be talking about asset protection and entities, which entities are the best ones to set up for real estate investing and for tax lien and tax deed investing. So I'm excited about this conference.

Okay, so yeah, before we start getting into the conference, because I do want to talk about that just for my listeners that haven't heard our previous podcast about tax lien investing, tax Lien investing is very different than what I preach, which is tax deed investing. So can you just kind of give a primer on tax lien investing and why you like tax lien investing so much?

Right. There's two reasons why I like tax lien investing. It's more of a passive investment than tax deed investing. Because you purchase the lien, you're not actually purchasing the property like you are with deeds. You're, you're actually buying the taxes. Let's say you're really giving somebody a high interest loan that can't pay their taxes. Because some states, the tax deed states will just sell your property, their tax deed states, but other states will instead give the owner more time to pay the taxes. They will sell a lien on the property. And the reason as an investor, you want to buy that lien is because most of these taxing jurisdictions, counties and municipalities will charge the homeowner very high amounts, very high interest and sometimes interest and penalties when they're laid on their taxes. And as the investor, you're the one who gets that interest or those penalties. Now sometimes that's bid down at the tax sale. You know, just like the property is bid up at the tax deed sale and you don't always get the property for back taxes. In fact, that doesn't very often happen unless you're like you, Mark, unless you specialize in land. That doesn't happen at all really. It gets hit up at the sale. And even for land, the last tax deed sale I went to, I was interested in some building lots, and there were three builders at the sale that bid these lots up. None of them went for under $5,000 and most of them went for around 10 or more. And there was actually one house, actually that was a knockdown. So this was something that was a building lot also. But it was a seven house, was on a seven acre piece of property that was all wooded, it was all overgrown, the house was falling down, the roof was caving, and it was just a total knockdown. And that went for $30,000. So these things typically get bid up at the sale. Well, in the tax lien sales, what happens is sometimes that happens because at some of these sales they pay premium for the lien.

Right.

But at some of the sales, the interest rate is bid down. So the interest rate might start at 18% or 16% and get bid down. In Arizona, where you are, it typically gets bid down to high single digits.

Okay, so you don't come out here then because you typically make what, 12 to 16%, is that right? On average?

Well, the average that I've made in the last few years on my own personal port that I personally invest in because I have different portfolios. I have one that I use my money for that is after tax money. And then I also have money in my self directed IRA that I actually invest within a different way because I don't personally do that investing, somebody else does. But the personal investing that I do for myself, I averaged about 14% over the last few years.

Yeah, I mean, that's unbelievable. It's unbelievable because I mean I'm, you know, I've got money in a bank account and I think I'm smart because I'm doing like one of these high interest savings accounts just for safety. I'm getting 0.75%, 75% sitting in cash. So I mean, it's nuts. But I have to have some money in cash because I've got to park it there for my tax deed stuff. But yeah, I mean, it's crazy. I'd rather. But I couldn't be liquid if I did a tax lien, right?

No, it's not liquid. You get paid and it's not like a CD where you get paid monthly and it's put into your account on a regular basis. You get paid when the property owner decides to pay those taxes when they decide to redeem the lien. And different states have different redemption periods. So an owner could wait the entire redemption period. In some states that could be only six months and in others it could be like in Arizona where you live, it could be three years. So you could go anywhere in that time with having to let your money sit there without getting paid. But when you do get paid, it's a nice payoff. So the thing to do is to invest your money every year. And after the first couple of years, two or three years, you'll have money coming back at a regular basis each year. So to get started, it's not a fast cash method like some other investments. And that's why I like to use the money in my self directed IRA too, to invest, because I'm not concerned about getting that money back. I can let that money sit there, make more money for me. When the money does come back, it goes right back into my self directed IRA and I have more money to use for investments.

Yeah, that's. See, that's brilliant. See the. I can't do self directed IRA investing on tax deeds because of the fees involved because it's just so much turnover, you know what I mean? Like I might do a hundred deals a year and then isn't there, there's like a fee for every deal. That was my big problem with self directed IRA for what I do. But I'd love.

Okay, I'll tell you how to get around that problem. One thing that I do in my self directed IRA when I invest in tax liens, I invest in a tax lien fund. And this is something that I tell my members about because it's a private fund that only. They only open a new fund once a year and I let my members know about it first. And you can just invest one lump sum into the fund and the fund does all the investing and all the different tax liens. So you're actually buying shares of this LLC that the fund owns. You're buying shares in an LLC and then the fund manager does all the work and they invest in different states. And that's the tough part about investing in tax liens is that every state is different and you really have to know what you're doing.

Right, right, right.

And, and it's easier for an expert to go out and do it for you than it is for you to learn yourself how it works in all the different states. And not only that, some of these states do not have online tax sales. You'd have to actually travel there. And of course, as you know, with investing in land, it's always good to look at it first.

Yeah, absolutely.

Before you purchase. And it's the same thing. Even though you're not buying the property, you're buying a lien on the property. You still want to make sure the property is valuable. Because what could happen is now you're leveraged with a tax lien. The reason why an investor would want to buy a tax lien because you might think, well, why would the property owner pay their taxes? They didn't pay the taxes to the county or the municipality. Why should they pay you? And what they're essentially doing is paying the county or the municipality. But why would they want to do that is because if they don't pay in a certain amount of time, that's a redemption period. The tax lienholder can foreclose on the property. So that is your leverage. And that leverage only works if the property is valuable. Because there are reasons that people don't pay their taxes. As you know, Mark, one of them is that they can't pay. They might have a situation where they just don't have the money. But another reason is that they've been paying taxes on a Property that they can't do anything with for a long time and they're tired of doing that. They realize the property is not valuable, so they stop paying their taxes. And. And then if you buy that lien on that property, they're not going to redeem it. And then after the redemption period, yes, you can foreclose on it. But then what are you going to do with it?

Right, right. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's so. I mean, it's really. What if we're going to boil it all down to like a sound bite. This is about due diligence, right. And you're going to get an amazing return if you just know how to do your due diligence. Which is what you teach, correct?

Yes, that is what I teach.

Yeah. So I mean, so if I'm interested in getting 14, 16, 18% through a self directed IRA, I want to go, I want to learn from you. But I could also be, I mean, do you have a fund? I mean, I could be lazy about it and just give you $100,000 and be like, okay, go crazy.

Joanne, I don't personally do that. If I did, that would be my full time job.

Okay.

But what I do is, I do have agents and funds I've gotten to know over the years, the people that do this. And I'll tell you, there is. There are not a lot of people that I recommend. There are very few.

Really? Really?

Yes, there are very few that I recommend. Only those who have a track record and who I know personally. But there are, there are a handful of people that I recommend that I can recommend, both agents and funds. And together there's only a handful of those that I would recommend. And I let my. That's what my members have privy to. And, and the people that go to my conferences.

Okay, so let's talk. Well, let's talk about this conference because. Okay, I went, I went to a conference in LA a couple weeks ago. I was, I was an exhibitor. I was by far the worst exhibitor. The most. Because I've never done it. I like, I didn't, you know, everyone has their stuff. I was next to it. Was it Equity Trust? The self directed.

Oh, yes.

Yeah. So I, I met Kent. Is that Kent?

Yes, Kent. Ken Kinser.

Ken Kinser. So, yeah, so Kent's like, oh, yeah. I mean, I'm like dropping your name. I'm like, I know Joanne. He's like, oh yeah, I love Joanne. And. But he's like, he's like, I haven't been home in three weeks. I'm like, what? This is what he does. He goes to all these conferences and I was amazed by that. But they're doing lead generation. But you're going to the conference and you're actually teaching, correct?

Right. This is our conference and it's a little bit different than those type of conferences. Our conference is going to follow the REI Expo which will be, you know, just like that. There'll be a lot of speakers and they'll all have booths. But our conference is different because it's compared to that, it's small, it's intimate. And the only vendors we have at our conference are those that have a service to offer tax lien investors. So they're not selling courses or anything like that. And actually, Kent, I don't think personally will be there, but there will be someone from equity Trust there. Because what we're going to have as part of this conference that we're doing is we're going to have a panel of self directed IRA company that are going to kind of debate and so that the people that are attending our conference can choose the best self directed IRA company for them. We're going to have them answer questions about how to invest in tax liens and taxes within your self directed ira. So, you know, that's a little different than just having somebody speak at, as a vendor at one of these conferences or having. They will have a booth there, but our vendors will also be providing a service to taxing investors and they'll also be speaking for just a few minutes at our, at the, in the afternoon of our conference to let everybody know what their service is, what service they provide for investors for tax lien and tax deed investors specifically.

Wow, that's, that's great. That's great. So it's going to be. So you get there in the morning and then is it. So you just start with teaching, is that right?

Or how does it work in the morning? I'll do a training, I'll introduce tax lien investing what it is. I'll do a training about tax lien and how to start with tax lien investing. And I do, my training is a little bit different. At each of the conferences that we do, I usually have a main theme. Our theme is kind of the same and we will talk about three best states to invest in and I will talk about how to get started on your own. That's my part. I teach people how to do it on their own. And then I'll introduce my partners who are a tax lien investing agent that can actually do it for you. So they'll talk about done for you investing, how to get it done for you. But see, the thing is, you need a certain amount of money to get it done for you. You need at least 25,000 for liens and 50,000 for deeds. I see to have an expert do it for you. But, so that's why I teach people how to do it on their own because not everybody has that much money to start.

Right, right. So you've got $10,000 just sitting there and you're tired of being like me, making nothing. And this is a great opportunity for you really, because let's face it. Yeah, go ahead.

You're not making nothing because you're used to, you're keeping that money to use for your deed investing. So it's, you know, you're not doing that bad. I would like to be able to have some money just in cash. And my money right now is invest, all invested. So I would like to have somebody just in cash around. That's a good idea to have an emergency fund like that in cash that you have ready access to. That is something that most financial advisors recommend.

Right, right. But yeah, I mean, I'm being, you know, a little facetious, but obviously for my business. But you know, if I, if I separate out my business and actually other investments, I mean, let's face it, I mean the market's done well. Right. And I've got, you know, money and I, I actually do a lot of exchange traded funds. You know, I like to diversify outside of just real estate. But most, most of my money, I mean, 90% in real estate, but you know, I, I want to diversify. And the last, you know, the last, what, two years have been pretty good with the market, but still, you know, I'm putting it into an exchange traded fund. I have no idea how it's being managed. It's be much, I don't know, I just think it'd be, I like the sense of control, you know what I mean? Like the whole idea of the stock market is like this big casino that, you know, let's face it, I'm the last person on that rung. The retail investors, like the least important person in that whole game. Right. They're the last to know. I mean, it's, the whole thing's kind of rigged. And we all know it's rigged, but you know, but you know, it's like, okay, where else are we going to put our money? That's why I think that tax lien investing is such a It's like the secret alternative investment that so few people even know is out there. Right. I mean, it's not.

Yes.

It's not a mainstream thing. You don't, you don't pick up Forbes or Fortune and on the COVID is, you know, the greatest tax lien investor in the world.

Yeah. It used to be the secret of the wealthy.

Yeah.

And thanks to the way I found out about it is in books that I read. And they only mentioned it. They didn't really tell you how to do it, because quite frankly, I don't really think these people knew personally how to do it. I think that they hired people that did it for them. And that's one of the problems and one of the secrets that I. A couple of the secrets I talk about at my conference. But the books that I read where I got this information was Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And that's the book that a lot of people. He just mentioned it. Robert Kiyosaki just made a mention of tax lien investing. And then also Robert Allen, Multiple Streams of Income, he mentions it also, but they really don't tell you anything about it. And I had a hard time when I got started in 2002 because the only book. There was one book in print at the time, the 16% solution, which was kind of. Anything that you read about tax lien investing is usually general and vague because it's so different in every state. And there was nothing about how to do it in my state, New Jersey, which is very different from Arizona, for example. First of all, in New Jersey, everything is done on the municipal level. All the towns have their own tax sales. So if you called the county clerk to find out what was going on, they would not have a clue. Everything is done by the municipal tax collector. So I just started going to tax sales. That's the way I found out about it. And later on I realized that there were people, you know, all over that wanted this information because they were getting little glimmers about it. They were. They were reading these books too. And then these guys were doing seminars and talking about tax lien investing but not really telling people anything about it, specific about it. So there were a lot of people that wanted this information. So I started interviewing experts from around the country. And I learned how to do this in different. In a lot of the different states. I gotta be quite honest with you. Some states are just not worth learning about.

Is that right? Which states are just, you know, avoid.

Well, they don't really have good laws for the tax lien investor Ohio is one of them. It's a deed state. But the way they bid the properties there is they bid on the percent ownership of the property.

Okay, that's.

So it's not. Yeah, yeah. And then there are other states there, there are other states that will sell deeds also. But they will, they will sell it instead of with the bid price starting at the back taxes, they'll start at a, the market value or a percentage of the assessed value. You know, they'll start at much higher.

Yeah, that's crazy values.

So really, really doesn't make sense to invest in those states offhand. I don't know. I have a state guide where I list what happens in every state, but I don't go around with all that information in my head now.

Joanne, is there a secondary market for tax lien investing?

Oh, yes, there is. As a matter of fact, I just purchased myself, purchased a secondary lien, and I've sold one of my liens in the past as a secondary lien. And one of the questions that I get from investors is, is there a way to get my money if I don't want to wait the redemption period and I don't want to foreclose, don't want to wait for to foreclose on the property, what if it doesn't redeem? Can I get my money out? And yet you can sell your lien. Now, here's the clue. The trick is, as we were talking about before, you have to do your due diligence when you purchase it to make sure that you buy a lien on a good property. But if you do that, you can sell your lien to another investor. Most states will allow what they call assignment of the lien, just like with deeds.

Right, right. So that's interesting. But now you're typically not going after land. Correct. You're going more after houses.

Actually, I like investing in land because with tax liens, it's very competitive. And if you go after the pretty houses, just like with deeds, at the sale, everything's going to get bid on very competitively.

So.

So in the past what I've done, one of my strategies was to bid on land also, the liens will be smaller because the taxes on land is less. You know, if it's a. Not a huge plot of land, taxes on land are going to be less than if there's a building on there and improved land is going to be. Have more taxes. So the big institutions kind of stay away from the smaller liens and they stay away from land for the most part. Now, recently in New Jersey, where I invest, there's been investors that have come in that just bid on everything and they bid all the land. They're making it tough for the individual investors in New Jersey. I don't know what it is in other areas of the country right now, but it just depends on where you are. There are some places where you can still get. I know in Arizona, for instance, you could still get liens on land at decent rates at 16 to 18. Well, not 18. They start at 16 in Arizona, but I'd say 14 to 16% in Arizona you could get on land. And you also have a better chance of foreclosing on the property if you're. Now, I. Even though I specialized in building lots in New Jersey, I've never had a chance to foreclose on a building lot. They're just too valuable.

Oh, it's great. That's great. So. So you look more for building lots then. What about something like an hoa? Would you do that?

Something like what?

Like in a. Like in a. Like a development. Like a community.

Oh, yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, because in Pennsylvania, I bought like a thousand lots in this overdeveloped community called Treasure Lake. It was gated and had, you know, PGA rated golf courses, you know, lakes and, you know, maybe 250 homes in there. But the developer just originally over developed it, so it's got power and utilities.

Well, I've. With leans. That's great. But with deeds. Yeah, yeah. Joanne, I lost you there with deeds, though. I. Oh, sorry about that.

No, now you're back. Okay, so you're saying with deeds.

Yeah, with deeds Here in Pennsylvania we do have a lot of those gated communities. And the problem is that I bought a deed a while back here in one of those gated communities, and, and the association fee was quite high even on land there. So I actually let it go back to tax sale because I was tired of paying that. And I really have to learn from you, Mark. And the problem with having land in a gated community like that is you're not allowed to put a sign up. There's things that you're not allowed to do with it. You're only allowed to do certain things with it, and they're very strict and stringent about certain rules. So I just got tired of it. I could have just filled it because it's in an area where it was very rocky and it would. I did hire a soil expert to look at it and he said, well, it would. It might perk, but it's so rocky, you can't even do a soil test. You'd have to fill it and let it sit for four years, and then you could do it. And, you know, this was years ago. I could have had that done by now. I could have had procrastinated about it.

Was this in the Poconos?

Yeah, this is in the Poconos. And right now, it's not easy to sell land here in the Poconos. It's not easy to sell anything here right now in this area of the country. So it really depends on where you are, and you have to do your due diligence ahead of time. What I teach my coaching clients to do is to look at the demographics of the area before they even invest there. And to invest in places that people are moving into, not where people are moving out of or not that aren't growing and blooming. You really want to invest in a place where people are moving in?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You know what I'll do is I'll cheat. And this is like, one of my secret tricks that I teach is before I'll actually go in and make a big investment, I'll start advertising that property on Craigslist and just gauge like, okay, how much interest am I getting? If it's, you know, if it's 30 days and I haven't gotten any emails or any offers on that property, then that gives me feedback right away for nothing. Free market research. And so then I kind of know, okay, I'm not going to go in big on this on this area. So, you know, I'll do that on certain marketing platforms and just test it and engage. Okay, I'm onto something here, or. Holy cow, I'm really off. There's no demand for that property, which, you know, like, for Treasure Lake. I was really surprised, though. The reason I did well on that deal and is because I actually negotiated directly with the property owners association. Said, look, if I'm going to help you out, you know, you're gonna waive your fees to me. I'm not gonna sit here with, you know, a thousand lots and start paying you guys off. And I did the same thing with the county. I said, look, I'm doing you a favor. Anything I sell is free money to you. So I'm not gonna pay taxes. I'm not gonna pay any fees.

Oh, wow. Yeah. We're gonna have to talk some more about how you negotiate that.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was. But, you know, it was a hard negotiation. I mean, it wasn't like. It wasn't A quick negotiation. It took a while, but, you know, I had to convince them, like, look, you're not getting anything right now. There's no taxes being paid on these lots. You're getting no HOA fees on these lots. They're just sitting here every month. You're losing money. I'm providing a solution for you. And they still didn't see it. They're like, oh, you know, this and that. We'll do it ourselves. Like, okay, do it yourself and let me know how that goes. I'm like, I'm built to do this.

We have some beautiful places up here in beautiful communities, really, that are vacant, a lot of vacant places. So that. I mean, it is a really good time here to pick up property if you know how to negotiate things like that. Mark. So I would love to have you come out. We could talk more about this another time, but I'd love to have you come out here. I'm going to be doing it another conference, workshop and conference out here in January. And I think the people out here would really, myself included, would really benefit from hearing you talk about what you do.

Great. Yeah. You're going to coach me how to do a conference. Like, do you just go out there with a laptop and do a keynote presentation?

Yes.

I don't know, like, the logistics of it. Is that what you like? Is that what you do?

Yes, I do. Yeah.

Okay, that's. That's interesting. Now, do you give out handouts to everybody or is it just.

I don't. I don't. I really. I give them places to go online where they can get more information, where they can get the information that I give. I don't really give handouts, and I'm hoping also to have them recorded. We haven't been able to do that in the past, but I'm hoping, starting with our conference in Anaheim, to have recordings to be able to give the attendees as well of the conference, if they can review that and get the information. But, you know, everybody takes plenty of notes and I give the resources and where to go online to get more information. I give a lot of resources. I don't give handouts because I don't want to really waste time giving out handouts and having people look at the handouts. I want them to pay attention to the presentations. There's a lot of good stuff there.

Right, right. How long is your Q and A typically? I mean, do you just get bombarded?

We do. We do a Q and A at the end of the conference. Sometimes I have time. Sometimes I go through my presentation quickly and I have time at the end of my presentation, but we do a Q and A at the end of the day also and we make sure that we answer all the questions that we get.

That's great. That's great. That's really generous now. So, okay, so let's talk more about the conference because I know we need to start wrapping up soon. So the conference is in Anaheim and then, so how does, like logistically, how does it work if we want to come to the conference?

All right, well, the conference is at the Hilton anaheim in Anaheim, California. Okay. It's all day Monday from 8:30 to 5:00 clock. And normally we start registration at 8:00 clock in the morning, but we're starting a little bit later because of the traffic in la. So we want to give people more time to get there. And normally we provide breakfast. We're not providing breakfast at this one. We'll have coffee in the morning, but we're not providing breakfast again because we want to give more people time. We don't have that much time in the morning. So we want to give time, we want to give more time for people to get there, for the local people to get there in the traffic in the morning. And we want to start right in at nine o' clock with the workshop. But we will be providing lunch, as I mentioned before, we have an attorney that's going to be speaking right before lunch and during lunch on asset protection and on entities, which entity is good for tax lien investing and tax deed investing and how to set that up. So, so I'm excited about that. And we will also be doing that panel, that self directed IRA panel that I told you about and our conference now, this is the third one that we've done this year. And my partners in this conference are Platinum Investment Properties Group and they are an agent for tax lien investing. They're going to talk about what they do as well and how to have them do the investing for you. We also have other people that have a service, as I mentioned before, for tax lien investors that will talk about what services they provide specifically for tax lien investors. And most of it all morning will be training on tax lien investing in general, the basics of tax lien investing, how to get a tax lien information, what places are the best place to invest in. I'll be talking about that. And how to do it online. I'll be talking about that as well. And we, we've been doing this, this is our third one this year along with the REI Expo. Because my partners do have a booth at the REI Expo and they. They do speak at the REI Expo. Now, in the past, we've done it on the Friday before. This is the first time we're doing it the Monday after, because the REI Expo is on Saturday and Sunday, and it will be at the same place at the Hilton Anaheim.

Okay.

And so this is the first time we're doing it on Monday afterwards, and this is the first time we're doing it on the West Coast. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm also looking forward to going to California this time of year.

Yeah, yeah. Seriously, it's going to be amazing. It's going to be amazing. I got off that plane a couple of weeks ago and I. I called my wife and I said, oh, the weather's delicious. Just that nice breeze. Because, you know, it's still like 90s out here. It's still hot. So. But would you say, like, the. What's like the biggest advantage of going to a conference versus because I'm lazy. I could just go to your website. I could just sign up for your training online.

Yeah. And I do have webinars. As a matter of fact, I have a webinar tonight. And I know people will be listening to this after the fact that they can still go to my website. Taxleanlady.com webinar training and webinar. The W for webinar and the T for training are capitalized.

Okay.

So if they just capitalize all the words and go to tax. Leanlady.com webinar training and when I say capitalize all the words, I mean just the first letter in each word.

Okay.

Not the whole thing.

Well, I'll link to it in the show notes, so no worries.

Okay. And they'll be able to get the reply for that training that I'm doing tonight. But the benefit of going to the conference is the people that you meet, because you get to meet the experts that are doing it. You get to meet them and talk to them and get a feel. You kind of get a feel for whether this is the right person to use for what you want to do, or this is the right thing you want to do, or you get to meet me to find out do you really want to learn from me? So that's one benefit. The other benefit is that you get to meet the other conference attendees and maybe you get to meet people that are from your state. State, and you can network with people and find out. As a matter of fact, the first conference that I had in 2012, two people met there and actually started a business together. So there is a benefit to actually going. And not only that, but sometimes you get deals at the conference that you don't get online. That's another benefit to actually going to these conferences. I know even with the Internet marketing conferences I go to, I like to go to them because they always give good deals at the conference and I don't go to too many of them. But that's one of the benefits. And then the people you meet is the other benefit. And actually meeting the presenters and getting a feel for is this somebody that I really want to work with or not? You know, that's the other benefit.

That's great. That's great. All right, well, I'm going to put you on the spot. What is your tip of the week?

Oh, I have so many tips, Mark, and if your subscribers want to get them all, they can go to my website, my blog, tax lien investing tips.com and on that site they can sign up for my Tax Lien Investing kit, where they're going to get my monthly newsletter. They're going to get a 10 lesson video course and a special report that I have. And they'll get all the tips that are on the blog. There's a search box there. If there's something specific they want to know about, they can just put it in the search box and it'll bring up all the posts about that topic. Oh, and the other tip that I could give them is to go to the conference page if they want want to find out more about the conference or they want to register. It's not too late to register.

Wait, Joanne, you're stealing my thunder here. That was going to be my tip of the week. Now I got to think of a new tip.

Oh, okay. All right, I'll let you know.

You can have it. You can have it. I'm, I'm generous like that. Go ahead.

All right, all right. So they go to my website. It's tax lien investing conference.com. tax lien investinginvestingconference. Com. They will find the speaker information, the speaker agenda and travel information. And I know it's kind of late for people from other areas of the country to travel there by plane, but it does give the airports that service the area. Sometimes they give you these last minute deals for flights too, so you might want to check that out. And it gives you all the travel information from the airport to the hotel. And also what airports? There's three different airports in the area, probably the best one to fly into is the John Wayne.

Okay.

I'm flying into lax. I use my points to go, so I didn't really have much of a choice, but John Wayne is closer. And, and, and if you know people on the east coast that it's, it might be too, too late for you to make arrangements to fly there for next week, for Monday. We will be having a conference here in January here in Pennsylvania at the end of January 2014. And you know, Mark might be there, so.

Yeah, that's right. I'm going to try to be a speaker there. And yeah, I'm definitely going to be there if I can.

Okay.

Yeah, we got to get on the docket.

I have a different partner for that conference, so I'm going to talk to him about that, about our vendors there. So, yeah, I really didn't worry too much about scheduling that one yet until. Till I come back from doing this one next week. So.

All right, great, Great. Well, this is fantastic. So my tip of the week. And I don't know if you. Joanne, do you know about deeds.com deeds.com.

I think I've heard about them, but I haven't been there lately. Every once in a while I do some research and go around and see what's on the web, but I haven't done that lately. I've been so busy.

So in my weekly mastermind group, we always are talking about our deals and resources, this and that. And then Jeff gave me this great tip which I've been keeping in my pocket, deeds.com and if you go there, you can literally get, I believe, for free, you can see all the deeds, the state deed forms for every state, as well as all the common real estate forms, warranty deed, grant deed, easement, deed correction deed for every state. And it's all free. Unless of course, you want to, you know, download the form and actually use it. Then I think they charge you, but it's a lot cheaper than going to an attorney. Oh, yeah, and creating your own, having them do the deed for you. So deeds.com is going to be my tip of the week. And what's also great about that is that you get the recorder information and e recording information if you want to digitally record your real estate documents as well on this site. So check out deeds.com and of course check out Joanne's tips as well. And of course go to taxlean80.com and then I'm also going to link as well to all the other sites, the webinar training as well as the conference site as well. So everyone listening, you typically one click away from there. But if you want to learn more about Joann, go to taxleanlady.com and of course leave us some feedback. Give us a comment and hopefully you're going to register as soon as possible and meet Joanne face to face at the conference in Anaheim. And of course, give me some love. Go to www.thelandgeek.com download for free the passive income blueprint register to get the three fatal land buy mistakes and go on to the get the podcast delivered each week to your mailbox as well. Look, buy some wholesale land. Go to frontierpropertiesusa.com Give me some love over there as well. Joanne, thanks again. I really appreciate you taking the time and are we good? Any last comments?

Oh yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me, Mark. That's a great tip that deeds.com site.

Thanks. Thanks. And so hopefully we'll be able to do another podcast because I want to talk more about secondary.

Oh yes, great topic.

You know, we could really go deep into, don't you think?

Yes. Yeah, we could talk more about secondary liens. That is one of the things that we'll be talking about at the conference.

Okay, great. So this is Mark Podolski, the Land Geek with Joanne Musa, taxleanlady.com and make it a profitable week. Hopefully we'll see you guys in Anaheim. Thanks a lot.

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Land Geek. Join us next time for more tips, secrets and information that will help you succeed. Stay connected with the Land Geek on Facebook at facebook. Com thelandgeek.