The Land Geek Podcast #28

Welcome to the Land Geek podcast, your resource for information and tips to making money by buying and selling land. Let the Land Geek show you how to make a passive income by working smart, not working hard. Learn strategies and tricks to make money buying and selling raw land today. And here's the man that's gonna help you do that. The Land Geek.

Hey, it's Mark podolski with the thelanegeek.com and I am thrilled and honored and privileged to get one of my star coaching students with me this week. From tamiland.com Jeff Axton is on the podcast. Jeff, how are you?

Good, thank you, Mark. Nice to be here.

I'm so glad you could take time out of your busy schedule to grace us with your land investing knowledge and especially as you know, as a coaching student, because I know a lot of prospective students or new students always want to get someone else's perspective on this business besides mine because coming for me, it always sounds self serving. So let me just ask you, how is it going?

Great.

Great.

I know I've gotten a couple emails over the last few weeks, people asking me how the, the mastermind sessions are going. Is it helping me? Is it helping my business? And, and yes, it is forces you to work on this business because you know, you know, whenever you go over the week before, you have to work on the following week and it just, and it grows. So yeah, it does help. It does help to be always active with it.

Yeah, I love mastermind sessions personally. I get so much out of them.

Yeah.

Not only does it make you think critically about your own business, but you learn so much more from the room and the other people, what they're doing than just what you're doing in your own little world. And even when it's just three of us or the four of us, it's just great. So I think it's really, really valuable and hopefully we'll continue to grow it from a platinum basis and getting more people on the calls instead of just listening in. And I'll be working on that. So. So even if you've only done a couple deals, I'll get you on a couple platinum calls and work on that. So I think the biggest barrier right now with platinum is just the cost of it, but that's just a problem to solve. But we were talking before the podcast and I don't know if everybody knows your story. Maybe I just want to tell everybody just a little bit about yourself and your background because it's, it's pretty unique.

Yeah, yeah. From city north of Boston, Haverhill, Massachusetts. And it's about a half hour north. And I'm a firefighter there. And I've been on for about 20 years. I've. On the rescue truck. And my dad did it. My, you know, my. My grandfather's policeman, my brother's a state policeman, so my uncle's a. Was a firefighter as well. So it's been kind of in the family all our lives.

Civil service, I guess. Right, right. So. And I did a coffee talk episode about this, about. Have you heard of Chris Hadfield?

No, I haven't.

So he's. He's. His. One of his YouTube videos went viral. He's an astronaut, and he did this crazy Major Tom song in space. And you see him floating, singing and playing guitar in space and all the different, you know, he's in the International Space Station while he's doing it, and it's incredible. And so he was interviewed on npr. And, you know, he's talking about the very real possibility of death and how they prepare themselves for all the things that can go wrong when you do a spacewalk or space flight. And he just said, he's no braver than anybody else. They just prepare more like thousands upon thousands of hours of preparation so that in any scenario, they're prepared for it. And that really helps calm his fear. So I wanted to ask you, what do you do? Because you're in that same kind of field where it's a very real possibility of death when you're fighting a fire. So how do you handle that fear?

Yeah, same as. Same, I guess, as the astronauts. We train constantly. Every shift we train. Right. When you get on the job, you're learning and you're always training. So for whenever we get fires and other emergencies. But yeah, it just. You get used to going to the same calls, doing the same things. Every call is a little different, but you kind of fall into, okay, this is, you know, step one, I gotta follow this. Step two, I gotta do this. Step three, and then you're always aware of your surroundings and probabilities. You know, where is the safest place in a burning building? Is it in the stairwell? Is it in the, you know, in the back of a room? You know, is it.

Is it.

How do you. Where do you. When you go in, you got to figure out, okay, how am I going to get out of this way? You know, is my bringing a rope bag in with me? Am I going to go up a ladder? So you're always, constantly looking in, knowing your surroundings. We use thermal image of Cameras. So when we go in a burning building, you can't see. It's not like the TV where you, you know, where backdrop and all those shows show the fire and everybody running in. And it's not like that. It's usually pitch black. And you have these cameras that you use and use ropes to go in and out and follow in, follow out. And yeah, it's a lot of preparation and it's an experience that, you know, it's just different. It's different than anything you've ever done. You know, it's funny, you take the exam to become a firefighter, you go to the academy, you know, and you go through these fake fires at the academy and they have pallets burning and all this stuff. Really, you don't really know if you, if you're fit for that job until you actually get on a truck and start going to calls. And then about two years in, you're like, okay, yeah, I love doing this. Or no, you know, this isn't for me. I've seen many people just get on the job and say, you know what? It's just not for me, you know, and they leave.

That's really interesting because I think we can apply those same principles to getting involved in the land business. Right. I mean, which provokes more. Yeah. Anxiety in you buying a 96 acre piece of land or, you know, fighting a fire.

Right. There's anxiety and fear in, I guess, in both, you know, just different levels. But.

Right. Yeah, yeah. You're not going to die if, you know, if you buy the wrong parcel. But I'll tell you what, the idea of losing money for some people feels like a death. Or that fear of failure or that fear of humiliation or that fear of making a wrong move can feel like a death because in that sense, like, you're paralyzed. You don't take action. Right, right.

So having a positive attitude, I think is the most important thing in this business. Life in general. I think for me, I always try to look at good things.

Yeah. Okay, well, let me ask you, I mean, why did you buy a piece of property? Like, how did you get over that first fear of, okay, I'm gonna buy this guy's course and then I'm gonna buy a piece of property? Like, why did you even do that? Like, it's a big step.

Yeah. I think everybody, everybody wants, you know, wants to be wealthy and liked and have something that they can be proud of. And owning a business is one of those things, I think. And for me, I've always enjoyed real estate and it's the thrill of getting that piece of property and actually selling and making a profit or getting a good deal. I don't know. It's just a good feeling I get. Just like in my other job as a firefighter, I get a good feeling of helping people. And so. So I always surround myself with good things. So for me doing the land business, I love it because it's, you know, I send out my. Send out my mailings. I get a. An offer accepted, I get excited about it, and then I sell it and I get excited again about it.

It's.

I'm helping people, so it all kind of works together, and that's why I do it. And, and, you know, these days, you know, just a job, you need to do more than one job.

Right.

The way expenses are, you know, my wife works. I'm a firefighter. I do the land business. You know, recently I'm gutting into teaching. Yeah, sorry about that. That's a land. Land call, which I'm not going to answer. But, yeah. So I try to surround myself with good things. And this is. This is one good thing. And I know you mentioned before, you know, what's that. Taking that first step and not being afraid. And it's, you know, I take those steps all the time with this business and with firefighting. And just for example, when I met you, Mark, you know, I had to pay when I met you for advice and everything else, and that's a risk. I took money out of my pocket and I. And it was. I was nervous. I'm like, all right, well, am I just wasting my money? And instead of thinking like that, I just kept thinking positive, like, no, this will work. I know it works. And he's doing it. You know, other people are doing it, so why can't I do it?

Yeah, yeah. You know, you know, it's interesting is. And I'm kind of like that, too, in that I skeptical, but I'm also like, okay, well, you know, I've run like, these mental stimulations. Okay. Let's say, for example, you know, this just doesn't work. Like, what's the worst case that's going to happen? Right. I'll run these mental simulations. Well, number one, I'm going to own property or I'm going to buy an asset, or I'm, you know, it's not gonna all be terrible. You know, even if I lose money, which in, you know, since 2001, I've never lost money on a deal. It's just unbelievable to me. But. But even if, you know, I didn't, you know, when I first started, I was really scared, but I always thought to myself, well, you know, the worst case scenario is I'm gonna own land. And I knew, you know, another guy doing it, and he was doing well, and I thought, well, he's no smarter than me. He doesn't have some kind of secret out there. He's just buying it really cheaply and selling it for more than he paid. There's no magic formula here. Like, why can't I do the same thing now? Then I started doing it. I realized, oh, there is a lot more to it than that. But again, it's not brain surgery, right?

No, it's. It's just like everything else. You prepare. Prepared for that property, you know?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, you've got to prepare. So, yeah, just like in your, in the firefighting. It's. It's. So what do you do then to prepare before you. You pay money for a property?

Well, before I prepare, I think I've said this before. I, you know, of course, I find out what properties are selling for in certain areas, and I find out where people are buying and selling land. And I think we had this discussion once before. You know, geez, do I, do I go venture into some other area where no one else is? That'll be the greatest thing. There'll be tons of deals. No one else is there. And I think you said, no, no, buy where, you know, where people are successful right now. Stay with those areas. So, so that's what I do. I go on ebay. I go. I use Terapeak. I use other, other Software, Land Watch, realtor.com. i find out what people are buying and selling land, and I get my hands dirty. I get right into that area and do it just like they. And I don't worry about the competition.

Yeah, exactly.

Just so much. So many deals out there. It's, It's. There's not enough people doing this. And it's, you know, it's. It's work. It's not, hey, you know, you know, a couple people that I work with see me doing this and they, geez, Jeff, how do I get into it? And I said, well, you know, you can get into it. It's just, it's not, hey, I'll buy a land piece of land tomorrow and sell it in two days. It's just not like that. It's. It's a business. Right. You have to treat it like one. Yeah.

So. Yeah. So tell me about your brother in Law like you helped himself. Property. What did you do and how that.

It's my brother.

Oh, your brother. Okay. Your brother.

Yeah, yeah, my real brother. You know, we always. We've always done deals together, real estate in the past, and the land, he hasn't really ventured into. I don't know if he just doesn't understand it or doesn't really. And he came to me recently and said, jeff, I want to learn what you're doing. And so. So I gave him. I basically gave him a piece of land that I bought, and he paid the same amount. You know, I didn't make any money. I just gave him the piece of land and. And I said, here you go. I said, do whatever you want with it, Phil. This is what I paid for it. You pay the same. So he took it and went on Facebook, Craigslist, and ended up selling it. Geez. In about three or four days on Facebook, to one of his friends that loves land in Colorado. Just happened to be. I don't know if it was a coincidence, but anyways, he sold it, and we're working out the deal now, and he's getting ready to buy another one.

So, you know, he's getting ready to buy another one. Is he gonna. Is he gonna go to you, or is he gonna go and make offers?

He will be making offers. I'm gonna help him out just because he's my brother and I take care of him, so. My older brother, by the way, so. But yeah, no, I. I'll give him a couple. Just get him rolling and then. And then once he's rolling, then we'll, you know, we'll get into the mailings next. Just doing step by step, you know, and it's nice because this business, if you want to bring a partner in or another friend, what's great about it is, okay, you buy a piece of land over here, and I'll buy a piece of land over here or the same area, and you sell yours, I sell mine, and you can do it almost together, but not with each other. And there's no financial, you know, I mean, there's no financial friction, you know.

Right, right. And that's how Duran and I started.

Right.

It was like a coopetition. Like we weren't really competing. We were kind of cooperating and we were buying the same area. Me, he had his reserve land and I had Frontier properties. And we would, you know, we had separate deeds for each deal, so we didn't co. Mingle any funds, but we were still buying in the same area. We were still selling in the same areas. There was just no competition. There was tons for both of us.

Yeah.

So it was great. But so you don't, I mean, do you ever have like your, your buddy say here, Jeff, I'll give you $50,000, go invest it for me. You know, you do the work and just give me a 10% return.

I do. With my, my mom and dad, they, they give me money and they. We've done this for almost two years now. They've been giving me money and they've been. And it's nice. I've been able to build up a little nest egg for them. And they use it for. They have horses. So they use that money that, you know, I have month income coming in for them now and so they use that for all their horses. And I just recently sold a piece for them and I gave them a few thousand. So it's a great feeling being able to do that for them, you know.

That's great.

Yeah. So I don't, I do take money from them. That's about it. I do not, I don't like taking money from friends. I would offer that to them maybe, you know, some, someone very, very close. But I just not, I don't need to yet. You know, I can do this myself. I built up enough that now I can do this on my own without anyone's help. So in that and that, and that does happen. It just takes a little time.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, getting back to fear. When I first started, I didn't want to take anybody's money because I was afraid I'd lose their money. And you know, looking back on it, my compass competitors that were bringing investors, they were doing 10 times the volume because they had so much more capital than me. But when things went south in 2008, they completely went out because they were over leveraged. And so, you know, here I am still, still doing it. So, you know, that's not here or there, but I don't know, I kind of go back and forth. I've got an investor on one deal we just started together. I think it's going to go well. It's a different sense of responsibility. I've gotten my parents into deals and they were super happy. And again, I wouldn't ever do a deal with my parents unless I knew I was buying it so inexpensively that there's no way. And you know, truth be told, you know, I've never lost, so. But I'm still always kind of in the back of my mind is my Luck going to run out, you know, am I going to make a mistake? But the way that we buy, it's hard to kind of envision it.

Yeah, same here. I've only, I think, one deal. I did break even or lost maybe 100 or $200, I think, out of all the deals I've done. And it was. It was. It was when I just started, and it was. I. I didn't do my due diligence. I just went by the assessor, said it was worth 50,000, and I. And I bought it for a thousand. And I was like, wow, this is unbelievable. And then I went and looked at it in a swamp land in New Hampshire, and. And then I wasn't even that bad. I was like, all right, well, so what? I go, it's right beside a late. I can make lake. I can build a storage on stilts. That's what I was thinking. I'm like, all right, great. Someone will build this, you know, place for storing their snowmobile, a boat, and then that. It had an association. So I was like, oh, boy, what am I going to do now? And so I ended up selling it to a neighbor, you know, But I think that was my only deal the rest of them have. Like you said, I've never lost.

Yeah, it's. It's a great feeling. It's a great feeling. So. So getting back to fear, though, why. Why do you think that so many people don't want to take that first step? I mean, do you think. What do you think the big reason is? Am I off? Do you think it's fear or do you think it's something else?

I think it's between fear and they might think it's a scam. You get a lot of those people out there, they ask me, they go, you're selling this land so cheap. But what is this a scam? You know, I get that all the time. And I said, no, you know, my pictures right there, my videos right there, my testimony, all better business. Beer or whatever, you know, you want to come over my house, whatever you want to do it. It's. I think in this day and age, I think people think it's not real. They're like, no, no, it's not real. You know, it's. There's no way he's making money doing this. You know, it's just too easy, you know, no one sell. No one sells properties. I get that all the time. No one sells properties for $800. You know, no one sells. I get, you know, you just send out A purchase and sale and people sign it. No. No way. I don't believe it. You know, so you get a lot of non believers and that's where it comes back to positive attitude. And you can't. You just get to do it. And I mean, that's with, you know, I, I've, I. Same for the fire department, same for all my life. I love challenges and, and you know, you're not going to win at everything. Failure is a good thing sometimes. You know, you learn from the mistakes, so.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Even if you started doing this and, you know, your first few deals went sideways, you'd learn a ton more than if they were just home runs.

Right, right, exactly. And you're going to realize after a few deals, you know, I'd say, geez, three or four deals is this business for me, you know, you're gonna know right there.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, I'm always talking about, you know, total market analysis. Right. You know, is the market big enough for everybody? And it's huge. There's just this huge, huge market. There's so many deals out there, and yet there's really no major, you know, billion dollar hedge funds coming in or private equity groups coming in and trying to buy up all this raw land. Right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's like this incredible niche that people just kind of don't really consider in the big leagues of real estate. You know, if you're a real estate developer, it's a different story because you're investing, you know, tens of millions of dollars going vertical on a project. So, you know, your first step is the land, but we're not buying that kind of land. Right, right. So it's, it's a very interesting niche. It's almost hard to describe unless you've actually done it. And, you know, you bought a piece of property for 100, $200 and sold it for $2,000. It's hard to kind of wrap your head around.

Yeah. And I mean, I have friends that we've bought in the same exact counties and I've asked people why, you know, why did you sign my agreement? Why'd you buy from me? Oh, I don't know. I liked your letter better. That was the reason why. Or, you know, you might hit them at a certain time in the year that's different that they feel about their land than the first time or maybe so it's just, even if this, even if you had the same list and you had five different investors just sending the same letters or mix of letters to Those same people, you know, you just never know when they're going to accept that offer. So it's not, you know, so you can have tons of people doing this business.

Right? Yeah, no, I know.

You know, in so many lists and so much land out there, especially, you know, especially out west is. Geez.

Yeah. Do people think you're crazy? Like you live in, in outside of Boston, yet you're buying on the wet on the west coast all the time?

I know that's. Yeah, that's been. That is my major business. I was buying in Florida actually. I started New England and then it's, it's just, it's. It's a little more difficult here. The lands a little more expensive and it's not squared off and a lot of it's not on roads. There's a lot of wetland. It's challenging to buy here. And not saying I don't once in a while, I do. And then I got into Florida and that was just very, very competitive and, and I was doing it and I still do it here and there, but I like out west better. I have people going out for me to the land, taking pictures, looking at it, feeling it, making sure it's real before I buy it. And then I just pass it on to the new buyer, all the information that I got.

It's crazy, isn't it? So, I mean, of all the pieces of property you've bought, how many did you think you've actually gone out personally looked at.

You know, I think I went and visited one in Hampshire, which is a half hour from me out of probably, I'm guessing, I don't know, a few hundred. I probably bought a couple hundred pieces so far. And one piece I've seen, that's in New Hampshire. The rest I've done with other people. And yeah, it just shows that you can, you know, you picture that guy sitting on the beach and working his land business, you know, buying land out in Colorado, wherever, you know.

Yeah. I mean, you are that guy though, because. How many hours a week are you really working?

What's that?

How many hours a week are you really working?

I really enjoy this business, so I spend probably two hours a day on this business. I usually do it in the morning. I get my cup of coffee, I sit out here, I do my, my little bit of business and then I. Here and there I'll answer phone calls and yeah, a couple out. But I don't. You don't have to, you don't have to spend a couple hours. You can. I just Enjoy it. So I just look at. The more I put into it, the more money I'm gonna make. So I was like, all right, well, if I want to make more money this week, I'll send out more offers, you know, so. Yeah. So it's controllable. It's controllable. How much money do you want to make? How business do you want to get?

Right, Right. It. Was there ever a point in time, you're like, I'm too busy.

Am I too busy on this business? Yeah, yeah.

You're like, oh, this is overwhelming. Now. What do I do?

No, no, I just know I just stack them up in the inbox, and then I get to them, you know, so, you know, you can get. You can. You could definitely get to that point, you know, if. I guess you could get to that point. I just couldn't. I control it at the level that I like, so.

Right, right. Well, yeah. I mean, me personally, I'm too busy. I've got literally more deals than I can handle.

Yeah.

I have stats of accepted offers now that I'm trying to get processed with my va and she's overwhelmed, and I'm overwhelmed, and it's terrible. You know, it's a good problem to have, don't get me wrong. But it's like. I feel badly. It's like. It's like poor customer service because these sellers are waiting on me. Yeah. But, you know, I'll get to them.

Yeah, I scale it. I scale it back a little bit. So, I mean, I send out my office every week, but some weeks, I might send out 200. Some weeks I might send out 150, you know, so I really. I scale it to where I want to be because. Yeah, because I do coaching. You know, I have a job. My wife has a job. This. You know, my kids are 9 and 6, so I want to be around them all the time, so. So, yeah, so I see a lot. But I tell you, when I. When the kids get older, I'll. I'm definitely gonna get it even, you know, definitely get some more volume going.

Yeah. Do you think you'll teach your kids this business?

Oh, yeah, definitely. I'm already slowly teaching them now. My son, you know, especially. I'm, like, explaining. Just explaining him how, you know, geez, Chase, if you give me, you know, out of. Out of your Money, you have $20 in your. In your bank, your little coin jar here. If you give me five, maybe if we buy a piece of land together, you'll get a dollar, you know, every month. For the rest of. For next 10 years or something like that, you know. So I am teaching him slowly how it's going to work, you know, but, yeah, they're interested in it. You know, it's going to help me. Well, it's going to help me pay for their. All their college and their school and you name it, you know, that's. And give us extra money. So. But yeah, you know, who knows if it pans out for them?

Yeah, I try to teach my kids time value of money, and their eyes start to glaze over. You know, I've got 12, 10, and 8. I'm like, okay, maybe we're not ready for that yet. But I'm definitely talking to them all the time about what I do and how I do it and why I like it, what excites me about it so that, you know, they're enthusiastic about it. I'm like, look, you realize one day, you guys, all three of you are gonna have to run this, right? It's gonna be all in that my state. So get ready. All right, so, all right, we're at that point now. Time put you on the spot. What is your tip of the week? Let's see.

I have just two tips, I think on one of your other podcasts, we talked about symbology.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah.

How's that going for you?

That's going great. I'm in my 18th day. I almost have my white belt. And simpleology, what it is, it just helps you with your daily tasks, getting your life organized, and it talks, and it's great because they send you emails about staying positive. It gives you different articles and, you know, close your door, shut your cell phone off. It gives you great tips on just staying positive and keeping the flow of your daily routine going. Because I know if I didn't have this, it's just messy. My life's messy. But this, this helps organize it a little bit. So, yeah, it's been great. I like it.

That's great. You know, I keep saying I'm going to get into it, and I haven't yet because. Because you know what I mean? Before I go to bed, I just literally chunk my day and my big wigs, my wildly important goals, those three big things I do in the morning. And so I say, okay, from 8 to 9, I'll do this. From 9 to 10, I'll do this. From 10 to 11, I'll do this. And then in between there or after that, then I have a couple tertiary things. And then usually I try to do all the mindless activities in the afternoon up until 5 and get as much stuff as I can get done and then go on there. So everything's kind of time based for me. Simpleology isn't like that, is it?

No, it's not. It's more like task oriented. So it'll give you a list of tasks for the day, but I make it a little bit different. I work on the business first and I work on, I try to get marketing done first and mailings done and then I go to this list, you know, then that's my regular, like you said, the whirlwind of all the rest of the stuff. So that's what I do. But I always spend a little bit of time on my business first because you can get distracted through all the other stuff. And then I, then I try to do stuff that takes a couple minutes quickly. I do those first, get those over with and then I see how I'm doing the rest of the day and kind of plan it. But so yeah, it's been, it's been going pretty well with me. I like it. And then my, my second tip was carbonite.com and I know people must have heard of that on the. Either on the radio or an ad somewhere. And basically it backs all your files on your computer. I had a friend doing this business, he lost everything. His computer crashed, he lost everything. And he had a couple years worth of work so he had to start over again and he didn't have anything protecting his software or all his files. And that's when I, that's when I really thought about it. Like, oh geez, I better get that because yeah, I'd be in trouble if I lost everything.

Yeah, yeah. I use something similar to Carbonite. I use Mozy, which is also off site backup. And then I put all my really, really important stuff into Dropbox as well. So in case Mozy fails, I have Dropbox. I love Dropbox because it's on every computer and it's my phone. I just have access everywhere. And then I have two external hard drives. So in case one external hard drive fails, I have the other external hard drive and then I'm good there. Now back in the day before the cloud, once a month I would put everything on a couple DVDs and go to the safe deposit box. But you've got to do that. Every business says look at your points of failure and what can go wrong. And sure enough, it will eventually go wrong in your system. So prepare for it. Because once it happens, you can't go back if you don't have a first aid kit in your car and your car breaks down, you can't go out and buy your first aid kit. Spend the money now and just be prepared.

SkyDrive as well. I use those for the cloud for me. And that's great. I can bring this business everywhere.

Yeah, it's fantastic. Okay, great. So my tip of the week is Wordoid for looking up domain names W o r d oid.com check out wordoid.com so Jeff, how do you feel about this podcast? You gonna do it again?

Yeah, absolutely. It was great.

All right, well, I really appreciate you taking the time. And for those of you listening, listen, Jeff Shariel, go to tamiland.comt a M E E L A N D.com and buy some wholesale land from Jeff. Give him some love. Honestly, he probably has, you know, better property than me right now. So, you know, check out tammieland.com and of course, if you can't find anything@tamieland.com go to frontierpropertiesusa.com check out my site there. Acquire some wholesale land. Leave us a comment, let us know what you like, what you don't like, what you'd like to hear for future podcasts. And of course, please give me some love. Go to www.thelandgeek.com and download for free the Passive Income blueprint. Get the 3 fatal land buying Mistakes ebook as well. And of course, you'll get these podcasts sent to your inbox each week. So this is Mark Podolski with Jeff Axton from Tamieland.com saying thanks a lot. We'll see you next week. Thanks, Jeff.

Later, Mike. Thanks.

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Land.

You.

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