The Land Geek Podcast #41

Welcome to the Land Geek Podcast, your resource for information and tips to making money by buying and selling land. Let the Land Geek show you how to make a passive income by working smart, not working hard. Learn strategies and tricks to make money buying and selling raw land today. And here is the man that's gonna help you do that. The Land Geek.

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the land Geek from thelandgeek.com your favorite website, which I know you're going to almost every other day because it's that phenomenal site. And today, big treat. I hope you're sitting down, I hope you're not doing anything that is going to. It's going to be like a roller coaster today because my special guest is the one, the only. You know him, you love him. Joanne Frazier, landhub.com How many domains did you buy today, Duran?

Oh man, I think about 13 this morning.

13. See? And 13 more domains.

That is. Actually, I'm just lying. I'm lying. I have to be honest with you, Mark, that I've sort of been out of that realm lately because I'm trying to use that four letter word, focus. I'm sorry, five letter word focus. See, I can't even focus.

First of all, why would focus even be a four letter word?

That's true. It should be a four letter word. It starts with an F. I don't know. Anyway, yeah, I haven't been. I actually did. I will tell you a funny story real quick, Mark, and I'm sure the listeners could care less, but it's for you, I came up with a little business concept on Saturday morning at like 7 and it's viable to one of the things that I'm sort of working on on the side. And I put up a website. I bought a really cool domain name, put up a website and it literally was up and running in like four or five hours. And my wife walks up to me and she goes, there's something wrong with you. She goes, how do you do that? And I said, I don't know, but I love it. So anyway, I created a really cool little concept here for. I'm not going to get into it, but it was just pretty cool because I like to do that once in a blue moon. I'll just kind of. I like to just go off on a tangent for a few hours and I did on the weekend. It was. I should have been playing with my kids, but they were out in the backyard going crazy.

So nice. Hey, I bought some, some domains last week. What do you think? Of the book title, Dirt Rich.

I like it. I like it.

Do you like it? So I'm writing that. I'm working on that.

That's cool.

And so I, you know, there is an actual another book called dirt rich. So dirtrich.com was taken, but I worked on. I got dirtrich.net and dirtrich.co or something like that.

I like it. I like it.

And then I got Dirt Rich Coaching and Dirt Rich investing dot com.

Dude, you're getting sued for sure.

Really?

I'm just kidding. You better check. Do you ever check just. And this is actually great for the listeners. Do you ever check trademarks when you do something?

Never.

See, there's a website if you type in tess, T S S or trademark. Just trademark search, right. There's a US Government search platform that allows you to search for trademark, like trademark or trademark infringements. If you have an idea so that you don't get yourself into trouble before you come up with a concept.

Ah, okay. I mean, but this is my own thing. Like, no one can trademark my way of buying land, can they?

Well, you have to look at trademark, right? The domain name doesn't mean you've trademarked anything, Right? Somebody may have trademarked. And the reason why I know this is because there was a clothing line that a couple of us wanted to get started. Of course, me and my projects wanted to get started. And we love this one name. And I went on trademark and I can get the domain name, but I went online and I could not get. I mean, I found out the name was already taken for the clothing line. It was trademarked six years ago, and it may come up in a year. I think it's every seven years. They have to file.

Okay.

And they have to basically show that they're actually doing something with that trademark. So it's something that you guys, you know, for listeners, if you're ever thinking about starting a business name or doing something, just always check that trademark, you know, registry, just to see if potentially it's already taken, you know, or if you're doing like, you know, obviously, same thing goes for. If you're doing like a. If you're incorporating an estate, you would check the records to make sure you're not incorporating a similar name.

So. All right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna check it out. Yeah, definitely check it out. So what's going on with you? How was your week?

Week's been good. Just super busy preparing for another trip. Heading up to Canada again soon and I've got another trip coming up which may be going to the Middle East. So I've just been staying really busy.

Okay. Now the Middle east thing has nothing to do with land.

It may, it may. We'll see how it plays out. But again, those are the secrets. We don't talk to the readers, we don't talk to listeners about.

That's right, that's right. This is sand. This is sand. Go to where the food is.

Exactly. So, yeah, I had a good week. I had a couple of interesting things happen. I had one buyer come back to me on a property he bought, loved it, but he wanted to see if I, or he asked me, he said, do you have anything else just out of curiosity? And I said, you know, I've got a great property just up the way here. Sent him all the details and the buyer loved it. So he's, we're looking to move into, into a, into a little more expensive contract for him and he was pretty excited about that.

So, yeah, you know, let's talk about that for a second. Let's break down that transaction because it's really important. It's really, really important. Right? Let's, let's slow it down. Let's rewind the tape. What, what exactly happens? So you've got a current customer with that, you're owner financing, right? They got a note on a land contract.

That's correct. So got a property. You know, if we want to start the basics and just chat, you know, numbers wise, the margins are, you know, the margins are good. It's a, it's actually a great property. So it's one of those properties that I sort of held in my portfolio for, gosh, I think I had this one for seven or eight years. And I know people may go, well, you're crazy. I mean, the holding costs aren't, are pretty minimal, but it's one of those things, one of those properties where you kind of like don't want to sell, but you want to sell and you think you're going to utilize at some point, but you've got another 40 properties just like it. And so I decided, I put on the market, I, I sold it.

Now how did you sell it? On which platform?

This one was eBay.

EBay, okay.

And so we closed, we closed that deal a couple months ago. Buyer loved it and contacted me, you know, contact me, told me, love the property. I actually, I actually upsold him. He didn't ask me for more property. I'm just trying to think how the, how it, how it down in the emails, I actually said, hey, I'VE got some other stuff just to the north, but it's mountainous. You know, you're kind of off the beaten path a little bit, but you've got paved road access. Sent the details to him. Loved it. So now it's sort of the transition to the upsell and to make the numbers work for him. And then, and then, you know, that's. And to me, that's sort of the strategy. And something you've talked about, Mark, is sort of that upsell. You know, how do you move them into a different property? Maybe, maybe they've almost paid off a property you can utilize. You know, one of the ideas is maybe, hey, there's. There's three grand left in your contract. Are you looking for other property? We can. It's, you know, when you, when you take a car and you have, you have your negative 3,000 equity in a car, right? You can take that same negative three grand equity and you can move it into another. Into another property.

Right. Right. Now, you know, I had something similar happen. So I had, I had a nice couple, Pennsylvania, and they bought property, 10 acres in Colorado. Right. So they have 90 days to go out and investigate the property. Well, it took them like six months to get out there. They get out there and it's not exactly what they wanted. And so I said, look, we can do an exchange. And so I'm going to upsell them into something that's going to be, you know, a win win in the sense that I'm going to get my 10 acres back. All the money that they've paid towards that 10 acres is going to get applied to another property. But then I get another sale and actually it's going to be a better note and everyone's happy. So even when things look like, oh, you've got an unhappy customer, you can convert them into a happy customer.

Exactly. Exactly.

Yeah, but. Okay, so. But getting back to the upsell concept, we talked about this before, man. You've always, always got to be asking your customers for more. You know, it's the. If you ever saw that, that movie, dude, where's my Car? Have you ever seen that movie? It's old. You're probably too young.

Is it that old?

It's not that old. Ashton Kutcher's in it. It's a dumb movie.

It's the most insane movie ever. I love that.

So there's a scene where he's going through the Chinese drive through, and he orders in the Chinese drive through, and then they say. And then he's like, okay. And Then I'll have the lo mein and then. And an egg roll and then in Kung Pao chicken. And then. And he gives no more. And then. But that's kind of like what you need to say. Okay, and then what else can I do for you? Okay, you just bought 40 acres. But, you know, I've got two and a half acres in this area, Humboldt River Ranch. It's different, but it's beautiful. And then, you know, I also have this other like. And what about your friends? And then. And then, you know, never just sell one property to somebody, ever. If not them, if they've run out of money, hit up their friends, hit up their family. Like, don't be shy about it because it's a great deal. And you should be, you know, you should be selling something that you believe in your heart is best for your customer. Yeah. Why be shy about it?

I agree. Going back to that dude, where's my car? There's a guy in that movie, his name is Sean Williams Scott. You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I used to get that. I was like, the way he is. He's kind of funny and silly, makes really funny faces. People used to relate just me and my personality to him. His personality and his character in movies, because he's such a character. I don't think I'm that funny. I just think that I probably do weird, odd stuff sometimes that relates to his character in the movie. So it's pretty funny. But anyway, I agree with you. I think the hardest part is too. I think people go, well, I only have one property here. How can I sell on the property? I don't have the next door property.

Well, yeah, but that's where your CRM comes in, your customer relationship management software. And you put a note in their file saying they're interested in Southern Arizona or East Texas. And when. And then you go, you know, you go through your customer list when you get a property there and say, oh, look here's. And then, boom, you pre sell that property even before you close on it, because you already have a customer database where you know what they want. Yeah.

And, you know, I think one of the things, it's really interesting, and here's a really interesting dynamic between real estate and cars is when you go and buy a car, you go to a dealership and you talk to them and you want to deal with an honest car salesman or an honest car dealership. And there are a lot of them out there, right? I mean, they're a lot better than they Used to be. And when you go to one, you buy a car, their goal is to get referrals. They want your business. Right. They want your family's business and they want to keep you coming back. And how do they do that? They sell you a decent car and they stay in touch. And if you have a problem, you help them out. That kind of stuff. Same thing with land. And it's all a referral based business. You're selling land, but your goal is to get the friends, the sisters, the brothers, the family. You know, if you're a fireman, you know, your fire, your fire, the guys in your, I don't know what you call it, your battalion that are all buying land and making investments together. And that's happened. I think you had that happen. I've had that happen where like, you know, four, five, six, eight guys in a group of people, you know, some ethnicities, they like to do things together and they all buy land. So it's just a really interesting concept and getting that kind of solving that equation of retention with not just your clients but also referrals as well.

Right. And staying up to date with your list. Right. Anytime someone buys something from you, that's a list in something like a constant contact or aweber. Right. And then constantly giving them information so that you're staying top of mind awareness and. And then hit them up with a promotion. I'm doing a Valentine's Day promotion this week and I guarantee I'm going to get a couple sales out of it, guaranteed. Jeff is killing it with his. Jeff Axton in Massachusetts is killing it with his list and he doesn't have a big list, but it's like a slow drip. So I think that's so important that you have a couple segmented lists where you have prospects, you have current customers, you have your VIP customers whom have bought big properties and they spent a lot of money with you and you want to treat them like the VIP they are and give them something special. At least those three segmented lists. I think I've got like 20 different lists in aweber right now and it's been great. Have you set up anything like that yet?

I sure have. I use mailchimp though.

You're using mailchimp. So how's that going for you?

It's going okay. I mean, you know, I'm still kind of, like I said, for me, I'm kind of more of an email, direct email guy. So I kind of go after the sales by just kind of building the rapport and relationship directly and emailing back and forth because. And I do, I have a customer database of thousands of people from the past, you know, whatever, 12, 13, 14 years. And I really need to dig into that because. And I'm sure half those emails are going to get bounced back over the years. But I have inquiries, I have, you know, people that have inquired on particular parcels. So what I'm trying to do now is have somebody come into my email box and sort of sit through and help me build the list. And that's sort of my dilemma now. And I'm sure Mark would go, just hire your virtual assistant. And I, and I'm, and I'm in the process of trying to figure that one out right now.

Where'd you get your virtual assistant from?

Well, I had a real assistant and she went virtual on me. Okay. She virtually disappeared.

She virtually disappeared. Nice.

She got pregnant. She got pregnant, she's having a baby and she's no longer working for me. So that's the situation and that's the challenge too. We talk about getting a virtual assistant or having someone live, I mean it's kind of a toss up. You end up training somebody to do this, to run things for you and they end up doing it for you for six months or a year. And then all of a sudden you realize that either one, they want to go or they want more money or it just doesn't make. The ROI is not there and all of a sudden you got to go train someone else. So there's a system that I'm still trying to solve again, hence my idea with Land Hub and we'll see where it goes. But things are progressing over there as well.

Right? Right now how's Craigslist marketing going for you? Are you doing anything on Craigslist?

Mark? We didn't talk about this, I don't think last week or maybe we did. I don't know if people know this, but Craigslist basically shut down in November 2013. They shut down HTML marketing for vehicles and for part of real estate. Now it looks like it's going to be all of real estate. So no longer can you save, can you have an HTML ad in real estate? It has to be a listing with the pictures and it's really cut and dry.

What about General for sale by owner? General for sale, not real estate.

I don't know if you're allowed to still use HTML. I don't think you are. I think HTML is gone. So what they're doing. So if you guys know the world of Craigslist, Postlets Zillow.com, padmapper, all these different. So there are people that Craigslist is very simple, obviously, and they've built this very simple platform. And they're worth a lot of money, I think billions they've been offered. They wouldn't take it. The owner doesn't care. The guy monetizes jobs, he monetizes now, he monetizes vehicles. Now car dealers pay five bucks to list. I think that's going to happen with real estate shortly. So it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out. I don't know if they're going to end up charging or not because I don't know how the auto site is doing. I don't think it's doing very well for them. I'm sure they're making money because dealers feel like they still have to post there. But if private parties. There's an interesting dynamic happening right now as we speak with Craigslist. And I think what it is is basically they sort of want to position themselves in the market whether they're redoing their platform. I'm sure that at some point that's been a thought to them to completely revamp a platform and come out with something a little more robust so they can sort of monetize a little bit better.

Right, so you don't think Craigslist is going to be free anymore?

Exactly, exactly.

Oh, you're killing me. That's so depressing.

Yeah, No, I think that their goal and they have to be very careful. Now, they may be free for people like you and I who are for sale by owner, but they may cost money for brokers.

So really that's not nice.

Well, that's what they did with vehicles and I'm assuming that's gonna happen with real estate.

So if you're a vehicle dealer, you.

Have to pay to list five bucks a car.

But if I just go on there and sell my own car.

$0.

Oh, my gosh.

That's a very interesting dynamic. So anyways, that's happening now. So what? There's gonna be a transition with some of these big things that are going to happen. It's happening in front of our eyes as we speak. And it's hard to tell what's going to happen because the guys behind closed doors are making the big decisions. But what happened is Craigslist got really upset because I think Zillow acquired Postlets and Postlets, you could put something on with HTML and it would automatically post to Craigslist. Well, Craigslist Has a terms of service, terms of use that basically says you can do this and you can't do that. And it's really in depth. And they send out cease and desist quite often. And I think they want postlets to sort of cease and desist at some level. But what they've done is they just said, okay, we don't have to worry about it. We just won't have HTML ads anymore. So there's just a really interesting shakeup going on in the markets right now. I mean, they put out a lot of people out of business. Because think about how many companies were building flyers for Craigslist. I mean, I've heard of hundreds of people being affected by or thousands and being affected by this because their business was building HTML ads and services for Craigslist.

Right, Right. Yeah. I mean, I did a whole thing on Craigslist marketing with Jim Lewis. It's now completely obsolete. I was so mad.

Exactly. And that's, yeah, it's interesting where the market's going. But that said doesn't mean that it's gonna change in terms of being charged. So you just have to create a simple ad now. So you can't. And that's what, you know, you talk about that mark. And going back to Craigslist, you know, that's the problem is that you had all these people kind of cheating the system. Right. And when I say cheating the system, look, you're creative. You're finding ways to get your listing to the top. You know, people are now utilizing a website called backpage.com, another classified website.

Right now, Backpage is not free.

Backpage? Are you sure?

I'm sure.

Interesting. Okay. I thought Backpage was free.

No, it's not.

So they probably charge for real estate.

They do charge real estate. It's not much. Okay.

They don't. I don't think they charge for cars, which is funny, I think. I think. So they may be exactly opposite of what Craigslist does. So anyway, and I'm learning all this right now because I'm in the middle of building the software. So I've been doing a lot of research and it threw a huge, you know, kind of a kink in my plans of building this software because the idea was to build something allowing people to right click HTML and build it in a template, right click your copy and then paste into to Craigslist and post your ad for real estate. That doesn't happen anymore. Now I have to actually take the thought of building something around Craigslist. What's called an API and then sending XML feeds to Craigslist. So, and that's all technical jargon. That's not, you know, it's not here, neither here nor there in the conversation. But what I'm trying to get at is that right now is a lot of changes happening in the market, but it's good for people to stay up and know what's going on.

Well, that's the thing, and I think that's the, the big takeaway from all of this is that you've got to constantly, constantly be working on your marketing and you can't rely on one or two platforms. Right?

Correct.

I mean, because it's, you know, if Craigslist goes to, you know, a paid model and it's going to ruin your margins, I mean, obviously it probably wouldn't, but, you know, it could. If you're, if you're running 100 ads for free now, you can't run 100 ads because it's just going to be too expensive to do. You've got to always be looking at different ways to market different platforms. I think we talked about this with. Even email marketing could go away because Gmail now isn't going to deliver your email if they think you're a promoter. It's just going to go into the promotions box.

I still read all my promotions.

Yeah, you might, but maybe someone else wouldn't. Yeah, they might be like, oh, I don't want this promotion. So, you know, there's always, you've always got to be trying new things. Always. It's just, it never, ever ends. And that's just business in that, you know, you can never get real comfortable with any one marketing strategy. Would you agree?

100%? Again, that's why for me, you know, I'm looking at building this robust platform from, you know, from a marketing standpoint, realizing that everybody in the land, business has a job. And it's not an easy job, but if you perfect that job, you can do very well. And we don't have the tools currently. If Mark and I had the tools that I'm thinking about creating and that our team is currently creating as we speak, you and I would have retired seven years ago. Maybe. When I say retire, I mean we're always going to be working and we've all done, we've both done very well. But, but I mean, we wouldn't have had to work as hard now because we would have been able to sell a lot more land, you know, five, six, seven years ago.

Is that right?

So, you know, I mean, that kind.

Of, that kind of depresses me.

Well, just, just part of life, you know. And, you know, so, so that again, I think it's really important for people to understand and know where, where platforms are going. You know, one of the one, you know, we've talked about it before. One, one of my tips of the week was TechCrunch, I think. Dot com.

Yeah, yeah, TechCrunch I love.

And it's a great place to go for people to understand like, kind of what's happening in the market. You just type in real estate, type in whatever your genre is, whatever, you know.

You know, you say that, but let me give a caveat to TechCrunch. Yeah, right. They're always, they're always, you know, this is for like those guys who are the, the people that jump on every new technology. Right. What's that word I'm calling. I'm looking for, you know, the first, you know, early adopters. TechCrunches for early adopters.

So not necessarily. It'll talk about.

It can make you crazy. Like, you'll read about this great company and they're out of business in six months because they ran out of money.

Yeah, but, but what it does is it opens your eyes to what is changing in the markets. Like, it talks about Trulia, it talks about Zillow, it talks about the mls. If you type in there something. If you type in the search bar like MLS or Zillow, you'll get 15 articles on Trulia or Zillow or real estate or, you know, what's happening.

I'm just, I'm just reading their blog and they're always, they're always talking about VC stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don't, if you go on their main site, I mean, you look, there's articles every day, like, you know, 20, 30, 40, 50 articles every day about. You're right. About raising capital about. And you know, I hope that in the next, you know, three months as I start rolling out and actually raising some real money, that, that we get featured on there because I believe that we could be a, you know, a real estate game changer when we focusing on land and no one's done it. So at the same time, I think if you are, if you stay apprised of information like that and you can, you can just go on there for two seconds and just search anything come up for real estate last week, you know, and so it's one of those places that I like to go. But it's always good to know. I'm sure it talks about Craigslist. I'm sure it talks about any new classified platforms that may be raising 40, 30, 40, 50 million just so that you're kind of ahead of the game a little bit.

Right, right. Where do you typically go to read about real estate?

What do you like? What?

Like, like, do you like. Do you have a favorite site? Like, there's, you know, there's land. Think.com. there's BiggerPockets.com. they always have articles.

You know, Mark, I'm going to be honest.

There's costar.

There's really no sites that I go on to that are focused on primarily just land. On the land market?

No, no, not land. Real estate in general. Oh.

You know, I kind of. I kind of take a little bit of, you know, a little. A little bit. Everywhere I go to some, like, I like. I actually get a lot of information. Bigger pockets.

Okay.

I just like to hear what people say because to me, to me, kind of the engagement, the conversation that goes back and forth in a forum kind of gives me a little bit more information than what someone just posts an article which talks about some company that they're probably getting paid to talk about.

Yeah. Bigger Pockets is like the Wikipedia of real estate because, you know, anyone can go on there. You don't know if they've done a million deals or they just started. You know what I mean? Like, you don't know who they really are. And they're talking about stuff and like, oh, wait, you can't really do that legally. There's this new law called Dodd Frank.

Yeah.

You know, and you get called out or they. Sometimes they get called out, but. Yeah, but, you know, anything you read online, you got to take with a grain of salt, right?

Totally, totally. So anyway. But. So do you have a. Do you have a tip of the week, Mark?

I do have a good tip of the week. What about you? You start. Are you looking.

Don't do that to me. Don't you dare do that to me, Mark.

You know, first of all, like, this is my podcast. I just don't like the fact that you're leading me into the tip of the week. I always want to say to you, Duran, I love putting you on the spot. What's your tip of the week? Now you're flipping on me. You see how you flipped it?

Yeah. I play psychological games only because I like to.

That was like a judo podcast move.

You just did on me, and I karate chop. Both your legs are down. Okay, so you guys all know I'm Kind of a tech technical dork. And when I say that, I actually am kind of clueless when it comes to technology. But I like to dabble in a lot of different aspects of it. One of the things that I like to, you know, that I like to utilize in terms of building platforms and when I have an idea I can take to a certain place to have it built. There's a website called topcoder.com topcoder? Yeah.

T o p c o-e r.com topcoder.com I'm going to check it out.

And topcoder basically is a website that allows you to take either one, have a design concept and have it created by crowdsourcing, which something that I'm very, very familiar with. And then the same aspect goes for the development side. You'll have 20, 30, 40 people working on it and then you have prizes and you award prizes for certain aspect aspects of the project. So you can either whether it's a full build out for a site or it's aspects of the site. You pay prizes like 300 bucks to the guy who wins the project and then second place gets 200 bucks. But basically you're having your design and it's similar to 99designs.com in the sense that they design. I don't think they do coding, but anyway, so topcoder is a really cool crowd sourcing concept. So that's my. I know there are some tech geeks that listen on here, but topcoders are pretty neat. Neat website.

That's neat. That's neat. All right, I'm going to give a due diligence tip. I don't think I've done this one in the past, but some people don't sleep well unless they know for sure their property is not in a flood zone. Not in a flood zone. So how do you know? You go to M as in Mark, S as in Sam, C is in Charlie. Msc.fema.gov go there and see if your property's in a flood zone. What do you think? Have we talked about this before?

I'm getting old, you know, Mark, you are getting old, but I'm okay with that.

I don't think we have the maps. MSC Map Service Center.

No, we haven't talked about FEMA and the maps, but I think we brought up floodplain before. But I don't think we talked about the due diligence aspect of that.

All right, great, great. All right, cool. So msc.fema.gov topcoder.com for outsourced or Crowd. Is it crowdfunded?

No, it's crowdsourcing, development and design for websites.

Got it. Got it. So if I wanted to build my landing page or my website, that's a good place to go.

Correct. Correct design. You can go to a website. 99designs or topcoder.com 99designs are top.

Now, I know you've talked about 99designs before, especially for logos.

Correct.

That's where you got your Land Hub logo done.

Just be quiet. No, of course not.

I'm not hazing you.

I spent 50,000 on a branding campaign for Land Hub.

Did you really?

Yes. I'm just teasing. Yes, we did. We actually did. We got real property Finders logo on there and we're actually going to have a company, Brett, a real company coming to brand us for Land Hub, so.

All right. Great. All right. Are we good? Anything else on your mind?

Nothing. I mean, I've got a lot of my mind, Mark, but I'd rather not talk about it.

Let's talk about it next week.

Perfect.

All right, Duran, from landhub.com, reserveland.com Give Duran some love. Buy some wholesale land from him. If you are interested in investing, by the way, send us an email and Duran's got a beautiful pitch deck about his latest venture. If you are one of those brave souls that likes to invest in private deals, do you need to be an accredited investor, Duran, to invest with you?

I'm not going to comment because I need to talk to my attorney about that.

Send us an email if you're interested in investing. I think you do need to be an accredited investor, so that's okay. And look, if Duran doesn't have any wholesale land, go to frontierpropertiesusa.com and invest with me. Or look, give me some love. Go to landgeek.com, download for free the passive income blueprint and get the ebook how to Avoid the three Fatal Land Buying Mistakes. And get this always entertaining podcasts delivered each week to your email inbox. So, Duran, thanks again. This is Mark Podolsky, the Land Geek. We'll see you next week. Thanks.

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