The Land Geek Podcast #55

Welcome to the Land Geek Podcast, your resource for information and tips to making money by buying and selling land. Let the Land Geek show you how to make a passive income by working smart, not working hard. Learn strategies and tricks to make money buying and selling raw land today. And here's the man that's gonna help you do that. The Land Geek.

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek from your field favorite niche land real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and today I'm really excited because this guy is really big. And when I say big, I'm talking hundred million dollar company big. So I'm going to introduce Lee Arnold. Lee Arnold has reshaped the private money in real estate industries. He's been involved in thousands of real estate transactions worth more than $1 billion. B as in boy, a billion dollars worth of real estate deals nationwide. He's an author, he's an expert, he's been quoted in Forbes Market Watch, he's been a guest on multiple well known stages. And yet none as prestigious as the Lane Geek Podcast. Really excited to introduce Lee Arnold. Lee, how are you?

I'm doing fantastic, Mark. You'll have to forgive me though, there's no way I can match your enthusiasm.

Well, you don't need to. You don't need to because you're you. So let's talk about you. How did you, how did you get started? And tell us a little bit about how you got started, what you're doing, how you're doing such a big business.

Well, you know, I got started in a pretty unorthodox fashion and many of your viewers probably might be able to attest to this. I was working at a grocery store, I was making $3.90 an hour, which was the then minimum wage. And my shift was interesting. I worked from 3 to midnight and so when I would get home, it's midnight. What do you do when you get off of work at 5 o'? Clock? You know, you play in the yard, you eat, you play with the kids. I wasn't tired. So from midnight till about 2:30 in the morning, I found myself either doing homework, I was going to college at the time, or sitting up watching tv. Well, in those days the only thing on TV after midnight was infomercials. And I saw one of these infomercials that said if you come down to the Doubletree Hotel, we're going to teach you how to be a real estate investor. So I was young, dumb and naive enough to believe that that would actually work. Sure. So I went down there and, you know, lo and behold, I got the sales pitch. Fast talking speaker said, I'm going to teach you. Just give me all your money. Again, young and dumb enough to believe that it would work. So I did give him all of my money. And I'm happy to report that it did work. House I did, with no money down, brought in a partner, bought a house for 35,000, fixed it up for 15, and sold it for 79. And from that moment on, I was hooked up to the point where I was in my sophomore year at community college and I was making more money in real estate than my instructors were making. I had read Robert Kiyosaki's book Rich Dad, Poor dad that says if you want to be rich and successful, you got to hang out with rich and successful people. Well, there's not a lot of rich and successful people at the grocery store or at community college. So I figured, you know, if I'm already making more money than my professors, I don't know what they can possibly teach me about wealth creation. So I did something that made my parents very proud. I dropped out of college and made real estate my career path.

No kidding. Wow. So now how did you transition from. I guess you were doing fix and flips.

I was, yeah.

So how long did you do fix and flips?

I did my first fix and flip in 96, and I currently have my. I don't even know what number it is in the chain. 1891 or whatever it is on the market right now for sale. So I actually never quit. It's just no longer my main business.

I mean, how is the fix and flip market these days? Aren't these tight?

No, the fix and flip business is an incredible opportunity right now. There's so many amazing deals nationwide, and we're blessed with knowing that because we provide most of the capital to many of the real estate investors across the country.

Okay, so when you say you provide the capital to most of the real estate investors throughout the country, let's talk about that. How does that work and what do you do?

Well, we are a private money lender. Our platform is predominantly peer to peer, meaning that the money that we lend to people comes from other clients that have capital, but don't have the desire, the interest, the skill set, the expertise or the time to. To be going out there and finding, fixing and flipping real estate. Now, the converse of that is you've got a whole army of people that absolutely love watching these fix and flip shows on A and E. They desperately want to go out and try it, give it a shot, but they lack the capital to do it. So not only do we train them through our educational systems, the Lee Arnold system of real estate investing, which is our education and our seminar division. Through that, we teach people how to invest in real estate. We show them what to find, how to write the offers, and once they have it under contract, they bring that to us. We then package it, we underwrite it, and then we present it to one of our wealthy investors that would like to lend on that particular loan. So we are a facilitator of private money financing to investors through other private investors. And we've created the conduit and we are currently the largest peer to peer secured lender in the nation.

The largest peer to peer secured lender in the nation.

You got it.

Now, are you worried about some of these crowdfunding sites like realtymogul.com or the technology of. It doesn't really bother you.

You know, the private money space and private money as it relates to real estate investing on an annual basis is a $400 billion A. And my firm is on track to control about a billion of that annually. So when you really stop and look at the economics, I'm going after 1 400th market share. It's so vast and it's so wide and there's so many different types of real estate and different markets and different marketing. I've just always been a. I've never had a scarcity mentality. I'm very much about an abundance mentality. And I think there's enough for everybody.

Yeah, I agree. That's interesting. You know, it's so funny because I talked about this in the past. You can just kind of see somebody and see what they're doing and they're struggling. And it all just starts with the playground they're playing in. And you kind of mentioned it like if you're working at a grocery store, you're never going to achieve what you need to achieve. But if you're playing at a market that's 400 billion, you don't need a small, little tiny slice of it is huge.

Yeah. Foster Hibbard was quoted as saying, go to the ocean with any size ladle you choose and extract from it as much as you desire because the ocean doesn't care.

I love that.

It's really fascinating because some people walk down to the ocean and they've got a little teaspoon and that represents the amount of money that they are extracting from the free market system. The Ocean, however, doesn't care. If you go down there with a tanker truck and fill it up, the ocean's not going to get smaller. The thing to consider, you got guys like Warren Buffett and Bill Gates and some of these top industry leaders. I'll put you on the spot with this question mark.

Sure.

Did you see any reduction in your income or your opportunities as these guys were making billions of dollars?

No, I didn't.

So, like the ocean, the economy, the market doesn't care. Extract from it as much as you want.

That's. Wow, that's poetic. Can I steal that? Do you care? Do I have to quote you?

Hey, no, you got to quote Foster Hibbert. I stole it from him.

I got to steal. All right, I'm going to say Foster Hibbert. Lee Arnold. So that's great. I mean, it's so true. Do you ever watch the show Shark Tank?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I mean, these guys get skewered because they're playing in such a small market, right.

And you notice the things that don't get financing or those that don't get capital from the sharks, they're usually too small. There's no scalability. The niche that they're going after is just too limited. And investors are looking for upside, they're looking for opportunity. They want growth and they want scale. So my experience has been that those that are struggling, it's usually because the vision that they have for themselves, for their business, for their bank account, is too small. And small visions attract small people. Big visions attract big people. So if you want to surround yourself with really big people, you've got to have a massive vision. So when I put out there that my vision is to create the largest and best growing private money lending company in the nation. And we went out now and franchised it, and we're now opening up franchises around the country. We will have 100 facilities in the next seven years. We will deploy $2.7 billion, and we will write over 55,000 loans in the next seven years. Well, that size, now we're attracting Wall street, we're attracting big investors, we're attracting sovereign funds from the Middle East. There's just a lot of opportunity there. And as a result, it attracts big players.

And now these are always hard assets, correct? Or do you look at. Do you look at residential, obviously residential homes, but do you do commercial deals? Industrial, retail? I mean, are you on the full spectrum in the real estate space? I'm going to ask you, do you finance land?

We provide access through various portals that We've created. So we have many relationships across the country with where if you can prove to us that it's going to make money, there's a very good chance we can get it funded for you. Now, it doesn't mean that we will be writing the checks personally in every instance. There are some deals that we may broker off to another relationship that we have. So we bring us the deal. If you look at our underwriting guidelines and says, what types of properties do you lend on? And the answer is non owner occupied. If you're going to live there, we can't touch it. But beyond that, bring us the deal. If you can prove to us that this thing's going to put money in your pocket, we can probably get it funded. But you, the investor, have to make money as it relates to land. The answer to your question mark is do we lend on land? The answer is sometimes the land play requires a strong exit strategy. If you're buying land to land bank it, meaning you're just going to sit there and pray that economic development eventually comes to the corner of your dirt. That's something we're not going to do. It's too slow. We need faster exit. So if you're going to develop it out and section it off and sell lots to builders, or if you're going to do the horizontal construction and then sell the project, somebody else is going to take it vertical, or you've got a shopping center plan, we can certainly get involved in that. But we're not only going to fund the land, we would want to fund the construction of the item that you're building as well.

Yeah, I mean, you know, Lee, no one finances land anymore except private money. A traditional bank won't do it.

No, they won't touch it.

They won't touch it.

Because the problem with land is if we have to foreclose and take it back, which sometimes happen, I mean, we have a 9% default rate on our portfolio, which in the world of private money is actually pretty strong considering the national average is about 28%. So ours is significantly lower. And that simply tells you that we are aggressively cautious.

So, 9% default rate.

9% default rate. So foreclosure does happen. And the problem with land is if we have to take land back, there's no way for us to generate income from the land. There's no rental income on it. There's probably no utilities that are sub to the lot. It's probably not zoned to put a mobile on there. So it's very difficult to Monetize land. And you probably know the answer to this question mark, but I'll ask it anyway. What is the highest and best use of a vacant piece of dirt?

Sure. It's to take it vertical.

Well, okay, my, my opinion is different.

Well, I mean it depends on the, on where it's at.

But yeah, the highest, the highest and best use of a piece of dirt is to keep it as a piece of dirt.

Keep it, keep it as a piece of dirt. Right.

Until you identify who your end user is going to be and then you do a build to suit and you develop it out for your 10. Right. So those are the types of projects related to land that we would absolutely want to be involved in where there's a clearly defined exit strategy.

Sure. Now our niche is very different in the sense that, you know, we're buying land pennies on the dollar and we may improve it, we may not even need to improve it and we're just going to flip it and you know, make our 300% to a thousand percent return. So it's, you know, my system is very simplistic in the world of real estate. I mean it's really like the long tail, if you will, of real estate, which is kind of outside the, you know, what most bigger players do, which I love. I mean it's a great niche, it's a huge market and no one on A and E is talking about flipping land especially, you know, these ways. So yeah, that's what I love. So let's talk about Lee Arnold Enterprises and all the different facets of your, of your business. So we've got the private money arm, we've got the. You're the, you're a private investor that does, specializes in fix and flips. And then we've got the education side of it.

Yeah. Let me give you the, the family of companies just so you kind of, kind of understand the umbrella and the structure and the nature. Our parent company is called Secured Investment Corp. Secured Investment Corp. Is the parent and under it it has subsidiaries. So one of those subsidiaries is a company called Cogo Capital. Cogo Capital. C O G O. Cogo is a Greek word that means to bring together, because that's what we do. We bring together people who have money with people who need money and then we just structure the deal and we get our cut in the center of that. So Cocoa Capital is the lending arm. Now we also have a private money affiliate program where we will actually pay to bring us deals and that's called private money exchange. Now also the Education arm that I mentioned, the Leonard System of Real Estate is the entity that we travel around the country and we literally put on real estate investment seminars around the country. And under that brand, we actually train people how to go out and find the types of loans, the types of properties that we absolutely want to lend money on. So in many senses, we are training our constituents to go out and find the very pieces of real estate that we absolutely want to put money into. So it's kind of a cool niche product because not only do we train you, but we give you the money to buy the properties that we train you to find. And then, of course, when you're deploying and managing that much capital, you've got to have a servicing company. We used to outsource it, but we just grew too large and we needed better service, better customer service. So we created our own servicing entity called Lake City Servicing. So those are the brands and the companies that really make everything function and work together. Wow.

Very cool. Very cool. And I love that, you know, every piece of it, there's synergy involved. It's these separate entities. These aren't separate operating entities that don't feed each other. They all feed each other. Correct?

That's correct. Yep. They all make money from the other.

Yeah, it's brilliant. It's brilliant. So how did you go from, you know, being, let's say, a typical fix and flipper to this hundred million dollar company? Like, what were the steps involved?

Well, you know, fixing and flipping, you can make a lot of money doing it. And my only complaint about the fix and flip market is that once I buy a house, fix it up and flip it, I get my 20 or $30,000 windfall of cash, and now I've got no income. So I've got this massive income in one month, and now I got to go start the process all over again. So I, I was looking for more of a steady, consistent monthly income, that continuity revenue that we want. Well, typically in the real estate space, the only way that they teach us to get that continuity element or component is to buy rental property. Right. Well, I don't know how many rentals you've owned, but at one point I was managing 89 rentals myself. And I got so sick and tired of the tenants and the toilets and the problems and, you know, sure, just overwhelming the amount of personal issues that I was dealing with. And I said, you know what, this is not what I want to be doing when I'm 65 years old. And I started looking at where was I Getting my money. And it was clear I was getting my money from private money lenders. Well, what was the difference between them and me? Well, the difference was not that they had money. The difference was that they had access to money.

They had access to access to money.

So being a lender does not require you to have any money. It simply requires you to know people who do. Now, because of the Leonardo system of real estate and our educational arm over the last 18 years, we've developed a database now of over 400,000 real estate investors nationwide. Some who want to buy, fix, and sell real estate, and others that have been very successful in that space but no longer want to do it.

Sure.

Well, what's the natural progression in both of these people's careers? Well, the one wants passive and the other wants active. So we created conduit so the passive investor could get their money deployed into these deals that we've underwritten. Appraisals have been ordered. Title insurance has been ordered. The lender gets a nice monthly income from the loan. The investor gets the cash they need to buy it, to fix it when it resells, they make a windfall of profit. The investor gets all of their principal back, and we make money on the spread.

Win, win, win, win.

Everyone wins. And I don't believe that business can be successful if there's a loser.

I love it. I love it. It's brilliant. So when did you start that part of the business?

You know, I started lending back in 2002, 2003, and I just started out small, doing some second mortgages. Actually, one of my first private money loans was not even on real estate. I had bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I had paid it off, and my receptionist, of all people, asked if she could buy it. And I said, well, how much are you looking to spend a month? She said, well, I'm looking to pay $400 a month. And I said, okay, well, why don't you pay me $400 a month for 60 months? Well, when I looked at $400 a month for 60 months, I mean, if we do the math, 400 times 60 is 24,000.

Right.

I was only asking 16,000 for the car. I'm getting 16,000 for the car, and I'm making another $8,000 in interest over five years. So my yield on that loan was somewhere near 18, 19%. And I thought, hey, you know, this is not a bad business. But I didn't want to be a used car dealer either. So the natural progression, of course, was to go out and start sourcing capital and creating this infrastructure. So in 2004, 2005, the bulk of the money that I identified that was private. Much of it I used for my own acquisitions. I was doing a lot of development. I was buying raw land and converting it into buildable lots and selling them to builders. During the boom years of 04, 05, and 06, coming into 07, I saw the market changing. Building was slowing down. So I got out of that as quickly as I could, started lending it out. And then 2008 came. Lehman Brothers collapsed. The whole financial system went, tanked. I'm not telling anybody here something new. Everybody knows this. We all have our bruises, scrapes, and bumps from that experience.

Sure. The whole world took a crap.

Yeah. So I spent 2008, 2009, 2010, just kind of cleaning out a lot of these loans, loans that at the time were great loans. But after 2008, the market drops dramatically. Now I'm underwater in loans. So I spent several years just getting out of some of that bad inventory. And then 2010 came. Now, 2010 was an interesting year because it was the perfect storm. Most markets across the country had hit bottom. I mean, we saw record prices in Phoenix, in Nevada, Louisiana, San Diego. There were actually homes and condos selling in San Diego for under $100,000, which hadn't been seen since, like, 1986. So you've got this amazing perfect storm of opportunity. And I now have two groups of people coming to me at my event saying, lee, I'm finding better deals in the market than I have ever seen in my lifetime. Where do I get the money? And I had another group coming to my event saying, you know, Lee, this. This real estate education stuff is really cool, but I just. I'm past tenants and toilets. I don't want to do that. I want something more passive. So it was at that moment that we decided to really take this model to the next level. And we started doing a lot of volume in late 2010, more in 2011. And then late in 2012, I flew out to Wall Street. So I managed to secure some appointments with Fortress, which is a $59 billion a year private equity firm Credit Suisse. I met with them a group out of Greenwich, Connecticut, called Ellington, Big, massive private equity firms. And I showed them what we were doing, and they said, lee, we love what you're doing. We think it's great. It's a good, good business. They said, call us when you're moving. $40 million a month.

40 million a month.

40 million a Month. So I Came back from that trip, not so much feeling defeated, because they all told me no. But they also gave me kind of a lighthouse on the land, saying, look, once you hit this pinnacle, call us, because we'll be interested. So I came back to my office, and I sat down with my executives. I said, guys, how are we going to grow a company that moves $40 million a month? So I called one of my mentors, and I said, hey, how are we going to do this? He said, well, you know, Lee, my company. And unfortunately, I can't disclose his company, but they had just recently bought American General Finance. You know, the general.

Sure, sure.

I said, why did you buy American General Finance? He said, lee, it's simple. They've got 1300 brick and mortar facilities around the country. And through that company, I can deploy over a billion dollars a month, earning yields north of 15 and 18%. That's. I said, wow, that's powerful. I said, well, what's the fatal flaw? Because all businesses have a fatal flaw. I said, what am I missing here? He said, lee, the operational overhead is killing us. We've got 80,000 employees. We got 1300 light bills, gas bills, heating bills, you name it. And I said, well, if you were to build it again from scratch, what would you do differently? And he said, simple. I would franchise it. In said franchise, kind of that light bulb moment went off, and we immediately went in the direction of franchising, hired a big consulting firm out of Chicago, spent the last two years putting our franchise documents together, getting it filed with the ftc, putting just everything. And as of February of this year, we were cleared to start selling franchises in 36 states and are now working on the registration in the other 14. So with our franchise model now, this is the COGO capital arm. We will be opening 100 facilities around the country. Each facility will be required to deploy a minimum of $10 million a year every year. So when you look at. And you crunch the numbers, 100 locations at 10 million per year, That's a billion dollars annually, right? So now we managed to get to a place where Wall street suddenly was starting to take notice. And right now, even as we speak, we're in the process of closing on a new credit facility with another firm for 100 million that will be used for lending operations. And once we deploy that, we'll go get another 100 million and another 100 million and another 100 million. So what I've learned through all of this is that when you build a business that scales, that has growth potential, upside, and the ability to move massive amounts of capital. That's when you're going to attract big players. So if I could say anything to the listening audience here, I would say, why do one house? Why not do 100? Why hundred? Why not do a thousand? The bigger it gets, the better the talent of the people that you're going to attract to you and your company.

Exactly, exactly. I love it. I love it. So I wanted to bring up a sensitive topic because I googled you and you know, the first three or four things were, you know, private money exchange and Lee Arnold. And it was great. And then all of a sudden the ripoff report came up.

Okay.

And there were like, you know, 13 or 14 complaints.

Sure.

So what's going on with that, Lee? Are you a bad guy? Why are you on the ripoff report, Lee? What's wrong with you?

Well, you know, let me see. I'm looking at one. It says, Lee Arnold, private exchange. Lie, Distant dishonesty, big scam. Never call back when they say they will. You know what? Last month I have a phone system that tracks every single call. Last month I had over 18 calls come into my building. Wow. And with 45 employees, I mean, look at the volume of calls per body. So unfortunately, the business is actually growing and scaling faster than I can build infrastructure to support. So I would love to tell you that our customer service is, bar none, but we are a massively and aggressively growing company and unfortunately, some things fall through the cracks. So it is unfortunate and I can tell all of your listeners that we are working feverishly to fix that. But unfortunately we are going to make mistakes. I mean, I am human, our company is human, and unfortunately, stuff happens. Now, some of these other complaints that you're going to see are related to our educational program. We sell high level, high price point consulting packages. We have one that's $50,000. And the reason that we charge $50,000 for consulting is it's the equivalent of a four year degree at a state college. Well, when you get a four year degree at a state college, you're probably going to go get a job utilizing your degree. But statistically only 30% of the people who have a degree are actually using it in the capacity of the study they got at university. So we wanted a price point that would be painful for people to walk away from now after we have trained them, you know, and I'll send some of my best people out to their market to work with them directly and show them, take them to the foreclosure auction, take them to the real estate agents write offers with them, give them the proof of funds letters, provide them all the capital they need to buy real estate. But at the end of the day, success requires you, the individual, to actually implement the training. So if you're not going to do the work, if you're not going to, if you're not going to market your business, if you're not going to go out and meet with prospective sellers, if you're not going to write offers on real estate, I can't help you. I'm a lender, and if you don't have anything for me to lend on, I can't help you. So, unfortunately, people make the mistake of thinking that if I give you $50,000, that suddenly money is just going to start pouring into my bank account. And that's not how it works at all. The $50,000, we deliver to you a system, and through that system, you can make millions upon millions of dollars. Unfortunately, when people don't work the system, they want to make it our fault. And that's what you see on ripoff reports. So this is people who want to make their inability to be successful our fault. And it's not. One of the reasons we went into franchising is franchising has a greater statistical average of success than starting your own company. Sure, McDonald's has like a 9% failure rate, which means if you buy a McDonald's franchise, which is a quarter of a million dollars, and you got a million dollar net worth to do it, that you have a 91% chance of succeeding. But what would your chances be if you never showed up to your store, you never ordered hamburger buns, and you never had anybody there cooking burgers? Are you going to be successful?

No, you're not. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter what you do, and you've got to put effort in. I mean, real estate's a hustling business, isn't it?

Oh, man, you cannot rest on your laurels and be successful in real estate. You've got to be a mover and a shaker.

Yeah. So. Well, I'm glad that you, you cleared all that up. So if anyone emails me and says, hey, you know, Lee Arnold this or that on the ripoff report, I know you didn't listen to the podcast because when you do the kind of volume and the type of business that Lee's doing, I mean, if you Google Walmart, the same thing's going to come up. I mean, this is a very, very 0.01% of customers that are unhappy and that's just the way it is. I mean, you can't make everybody happy, especially if you don't do anything and you want to project your failures onto someone else. There's nothing you can do about it.

Well, and, you know, I don't want to fight fire with fire, but, you know, ripoff report in itself is a pretty interesting business model because they make their money by selling advertisements because of the volume of traffic coming to their site. And there's a button, I'm actually looking on it right now, and it says, is there a ripoff report about you? SEO, Reputation management. Click here now. Right. They're selling now. Consulting on how people like me can get their items removed from ripoff reports. So, I mean, it's borderline blackmail. And I can tell you that some representative from the ripoff report called me several years ago and said for $50,000, they could make of the negativity disappear.

Sure, sure.

So, you know, but let's. Let's not dwell in the negative.

Yeah, let's not dwell in the negative. I think you're doing pretty well. You know what? I wouldn't worry about it if I were you.

Well, I don't. But, you know, I worry that people will miss out on opportunity believing lies.

Right, right. Yeah, exactly. And that's the. You know, that's the sad part about it, is that people have to understand that when you have a big business, you can't make everybody happy. It's just. And if you're actually not on the ripoff report, you're probably not big enough.

Well, you know, we've been in business for over 15 years. I've got over 400,000 customers, and we do millions and millions of dollars worth of volume each and every month. And so to only have 14 on here, I'm actually pretty, pretty proud of that.

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. Well, I'm glad. I'm glad I brought it up because I know, you know, one or two people are going to email me about that.

Sure.

You know, thanks for kind of clearing that up. All right, so this is the part of the podcast where I love putting my guests on the spot, and I'd love for you to give us a tip of the week. It can be a website. It can be, you know, a book you've read. It could be anything that's going to help us, you know, succeed in life.

Okay.

Or do better in our real estate businesses.

Okay, let me. Let me give you this one. And it's not a book. It's not a Website. It's simply a real estate fundamental. And that, that is two questions. What is it worth? What can we get it for? Those are the only two questions. You know, people are like, well, what do you think about location, location, location. No, what is it worth? What can we get it for? Well, what do you think about style and construction and rancher versus bun, Bungalow versus commercial versus land versus strip mall versus industrial? What is it worth? What can we get it for? You know, if you will incorporate those two questions into every aspect of your business, you're going to make money no matter what it is. What is it worth? What can I get it for? And if the answers to those two questions, there's margin in the middle, you can make money. And so as a lender, guys, what we're looking for from you is to bring us loans where it's worth 200 and you're getting it for 80 and we're going to lend you $80,000 to buy it. We're going to lend you $30,000 to fix it up. So not only do we give you money for fix up, we also give you money for repair. Because you did the proper what is it worth? What can I get it for? Analysis. You wrote the offer, you took action, you sent us a loan application. So I know that my wisdom is somewhat dual purpose here, Mark, but I truly believe that I can probably best help your listeners by letting them know there is no shortage of capital, there is no shortage of funding available to them if they will simply invest time, energy and effort in going out and finding great deals.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, I say that all the time. At the end of the day, the real value in real estate is the deal. That's it. Yeah, I love it. So I'm going to steal that too from you.

You've heard the statement before. In real estate, you make money when you buy, you realize your investment when you sell. Right. It's just another way of saying, what is it worth? What can I get it for? Because if you don't buy it. Right, you can't sell it. Right?

Exactly. Exactly. Well, this has been great. I'm gonna give a tip of the week and I'm gonna tell everybody, go to Kogo Capital. C O G O C A P I t a l.com co goc capital. Learn more about Lee and what he's doing. And man, this has been a phenomenal, phenomenal podcast. And I can't thank you enough, Lee, for taking, you know, your very valuable time and sharing your wisdom with my listeners. I really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

It's been my pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity and I look forward to doing some business with you and your clients.

Yeah, same here. I'm really excited about it. So if you guys want to learn more tips, tricks, techniques on making money, buying, selling land, of course, go to www.thelanegeek.com. and if you want to acquire some wholesale land, check out frontierpropertiesusa.com and again, if you want to learn the beautiful, sophisticated, incredible world of Lee arnold, go to cogocapital.com this has been one of my favorite podcasts and again, I really appreciate Lee. So by the time everyone hears this, I will be in Vegas next week. Vegas for the two day Lane Geek Boot camp. But I will be back. And Lee, I hope we can do a webinar on this too.

Hey, that'd be great.

So this would be great. So this is Mark Podolski, the Lane Geek with Lee Arnold. And we'll see everybody next week. Thanks a lot.

Thank you for listening to another episode of the Land Geek. Join us next time for more tips, secrets and information that will help you succeed. Stay connected with the Land Geek on Facebook at facebook. Com thelandgeek.