The Land Geek's Podcast #86

Welcome to the Land Geek Podcast, your resource for information and tips to making money by buying and selling land. Let the Land Geek show you how to make a passive income by working smart, not working hard. Learn strategies and tricks to make money buying and selling raw land today. And here is the man that's gonna help you do that. The Land Geek.

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek, with your favorite niche real estate land website, www.thelandgeek.com. and today I'm excited to learn about something kind of new, kind of different, kind of cool in the sense that I've really never delved very deep into the subject. And my guest today is truly an expert. Scott Maurer. Am I pronouncing that right, Scott?

Yeah, that's exactly correct, Mark. Good job.

Scott Maurer is the director of the Business Development for Advanta IRA Services. Advanta specializes in administering self directed IRA and retirement accounts. You can, of course, invest in raw land with a self directed IRA. Scott has worked for Advanta since 2006 and is a frequent speaker and lecturer on the topic of self directed IRAs and using retirement funds to invest in real estate and other alternative assets. Let's talk about some of those alternative assets.

Sure.

Scott is also an attorney. Don't get mad at him. It's okay. A member of the Florida Bar, although he does not give legal advice to advance the clients. You know, it's always fun to hate the attorneys. Scott Maurer, how are you?

I'm very good, Mark. How are you doing? Thanks for having me today.

Yeah, no, my pleasure. So this is great. Let's get into it. I think I talked to you about this before you came on. I've never invested in a self directed IRA. Not because our returns are huge. We're talking about 300% to 1000% margins. But I've never done it through a self directed ira, simply because I thought the fees were too high and would eat up my margins. So can you kind of walk me through that? First of all, how does this thing get set up? Why do people do it? What are the advantages? What are the disadvantages? What's going on with these self directed IRAs?

Sure. Well, I'll start off number one, Mark, a lot of people just, it's not uncommon that a lot of people. This is something that is very new to them. It's only about 90, about, I should say 95% of IRAs or retirement accounts in this country are not invested in alternative investments. They're in CDs. They're in money markets, they're in mutual funds, stocks, etc. So it's not something that's very common just because I think a lot of people don't know about it, but it is allowable. And that's kind of surprising when people say real estate can't be held in an IRA because I can't do that through Schwab or I can't do it through Fidelity. But the IRS rules when it comes to investing with your IRA funds do allow for you to invest in real estate, invest in private notes and a lot of other things we can talk about as well. And any type of real estate, whether it's a piece of rental property, rehab or a piece of raw land, as you're very familiar with, all can be held within an IRA account. You just have to have the right custodian and administrator who's willing to hold that type of asset. And that's the niche we serve in the market, is that we are not a broker, dealer. We don't sell any mutual funds, we don't sell stocks. We just allow people to use their retirement funds and invest in these different assets. And the process, Mark, you asked, is very simple. It's a matter of establishing an IRA account with a firm like ourselves and then just transferring money from your current ira, whether it's Fidelity, Schwab, Smith Barney, it doesn't matter, just moving that account over. It's a non taxable, non reportable event to move money from one IRA to another. And then once we have the funds in the account, you direct us to buy that particular piece of land in the ira. And we work with you and work with the title company all the way through the process to make sure that when you ultimately purchase that lot or that piece of property, that the owner's name, rather than being, say, Mark Podolsky as the owner, it would be advance IRA for benefit of Mark Podolski's IRA as the purchaser. So that demonstrates to the IRS that you have used your IRA to invest in real estate as opposed to investing in mutual funds. Now, the huge benefit of investing through your IRA is that whatever gains you make, you said you're making 300% or type margins and returns on the account, that money all comes back into the IRA completely tax free or tax deferred, depending on the type of ira. So as you are investing and reinvesting in land, you are not going to pay any taxes as you go, which allows you to build your account much more quickly and not have to suffer the capital gains or the income taxes due. Ordinarily, IRAs do not pay taxes on their gains.

Right, right. But Scott, you know, like our land niche, we might buy 500 properties a year. So it's, you know, we're talking about big volume. We're not talking about maybe five to 10 houses. So what are the fees per transaction? Or can I, can I buy 500 and sell 500 in a year? And how would that work? How would that look?

Well, here's kind of the two ways you could do it. We do have clients who buy each asset within each IRA and have us handling the closings. And that would get expensive. Not going to lie or sugarcoated. If you are paying us for each transaction, we charge a transaction fee of 95 or $145 per transaction to buy each piece of real estate. And we have an annual record keeping fee that is based on the total value of the account. So for each property you purchase, that certainly could get expensive. But one way I have seen people, when you're looking to making multiple investments is they have created essentially an LLC or maybe a private trust that is owned by their ira. And so instead of having us send money for each closing, they instead have us send their IRA funds. Let's say they have 100,000 in an IRA, just send all 100,000 into an LLC that they control or have somebody else control. And they can then use that LLC to buy and sell all of the property in and out of that llc. And so that would save on your transaction costs because we are only going to be involved one time with one investment into that LLC and your annual fee would just be capped at a flat $295 a year.

Well, that's the way to do it. Holy cow. So why aren't I doing this?

I don't know that I can't answer why someone may not be doing it, but it certainly is available. As far as what accounts could be self directed, Any type of Iraq, whether it's a traditional tax deferred kind of quote, regular ira, a Roth ira, which is a tax free account, which is even better. Obviously when you're talking about the returns that you're mentioning, having that money come back completely tax free forever within a Roth and any old 401, any old employer plan, somebody who worked for a company for a number of years, no longer employed there, those monies can always be rolled over and moved into a self directed IRA to invest in real estate.

Okay, so now I have a SEP ira, I have a Roth ira, I have a Regular ira, all those I could use, correct?

You could, you could. Your SEP and your traditional could be combined into the same account because they are both tax deferred accounts. You will pay tax on that money down the road at some point when you retire or decide to take distributions. The Roth IRA money would be kept separate because it is again, tax free. Which means the money that's in there, whatever you grow it to, by the time you reach the age when you want to pull it out, that's all growing completely tax free. That's why a Roth IRA is extremely popular among investors who are getting big returns, because every return they get is tax free.

Well, I should definitely do this through the Roth. And the great thing about our niche is we don't need to have a lot of money. Right. So that part is fantastic. I set up my Roth. What's the minimum amount I can keep adding to it each year? I said a maximum amount.

There's a maximum contribution. That's the only thing the IRS limits with IRAs in a given year is how much money you can contribute out of your pocket. There is no limitation on the earnings, but you can only contribute. For instance, for a traditional or a Roth IRA, you can contribute up to $5,500 a year, or 6,500 if someone was over the age of 50.

Okay, that's good.

Have a SEP IRA, you can actually contribute up to 25% of your annual earned income in a given year. So your W2 or your schedule C income, you can contribute up to 25% of that amount to a maximum of $52,000 a year. So the SEP, you can obviously get a lot more money in there in a given year to give you more to work with initially.

Right, right. So now the transfer process. Can I transfer a percentage of funds?

You certainly can.

I can. Okay.

Yes. We have a lot of clients. In fact, most of our client base. It's not an all or nothing approach with them with the self direction. They have accounts with a bank or with a brokerage firm and they just move over a portion of what they need for the deal they wish to get started. So if someone was saying, Well, I have 100,000 in my IRA and I really only want to use 50 of it to start towards these land purchases. They only need to move over the $50,000 and leave the other amount where it's at, then use that $50,000 within the self directed IRA to buy property and grow that portion of the account from there. If they sell all the land and don't want to purchase any more, they can always transfer it right back. Or hopefully in a different sense, maybe you say, hey, I would like to use actually more of this money and move more money at a later date. So you are allowed to transfer between IRAs as often and whenever you'd like.

Even a Roth. I could transfer a Roth to a.

You could transfer Roth to Roth. It just has to go to the same account. So you could move from Roth to Roth or traditional to traditional. Now, one kind of maybe what you're getting out there, if you're looking to say, I have some money in traditional ira, and Scott just said a Roth IRA that was tax free. So that sounds better than tax deferred. You can move money from a traditional to a Roth by way of what they call a conversion, and that is moving the money from the tax deferred traditional to the tax free Roth. You have to pay the taxes though now on the amount of money that you move over. So if you were to convert 50,000 from your traditional to the Roth, you will pay taxes this year on that 50,000 that you move into the Roth.

Could I put that much in?

You can do a conversion for as much as you want. Kind of, let's say a slightly sarcastic way of looking at it, but the government's not going to complain. If you convert your traditional IRA to a Roth whole amount and pay taxes.

Now on that whole thing, wouldn't that be advantageous to do it? I mean, I guess it depends on the amount and how long you're going to be able to invest.

It's definitely an individual circumstance to decide. How much of a tax hit are you willing to take this year to do that? Because it's going to be a tax hit to you personally, but then going forward it's going to be completely tax free. Whenever I talk to a client about a conversion, always want to get your tax advisor involved so you know what tax bracket you're at, how much you're looking at in actual tax that you might pay before you do that conversion. But once you do it and you pay the tax, that money is now growing tax free forever.

Okay, unbelievable. So let's say, for example, I'm investing in land. But then I see, oh, here's a great note deal that I could buy that's also, let's say, attached to land. Because if I have to foreclosing the note, I know how to sell the land. Can I mix assets, asset classes in that ira?

You certainly can. Just as if you were mixing different type of mutual Funds or different types of stocks, you can hold any type of asset within a self directed ira. Now, there's only a few restrictions the IRS has when it comes to self directed investing. The two types of assets you can't purchase are either collectibles or life insurance. Now, collectibles would include your antiques, your artwork, things of that nature. And the other restriction is on who your IRA can transact with. Your IRA is prohibited from transacting with yourself, your spouse, your parents and grandparents, your kids and grandkids, in any entity that is owned or controlled by one of those individuals. So if you already owned a piece of land personally, the laws do not allow you to sell it to your ira. Likewise, if you had money in your ira, you cannot lend it to yourself or a disqualified person. But if you're dealing with anyone that's unrelated to you, there's really no limitation on if you're buying real estate from them, whether it's raw land or rental property. If you are looking at doing a loan to them and simply having them make their loan payments instead of paying a bank, they pay your IRA, whatever terms and interest that you have established with them.

Okay, so I can't take my current note portfolio and then transfer that or a portion of that to an ira. Right now I'd be starting from scratch with those assets.

Correct. You'd have basically cash in the IRA that you're starting and wanting to buy new notes or new property. Anything you already own is not eligible to be put inside your ira.

Okay. So the market drops for whatever reason. You know, we go back down to 2008. And I need cash, Scott, I need cash. I can't, I can't take it out. Correct. Without being. What would be the penalty? I mean, you know, say, let's say, you know, I started with $8,000 and I built that up to over a hundred thousand dollars. But now all of a sudden, you know, I, I want to be able to take a little bit of some of my chips off the table for something else. Right. What happens?

Well, I guess you're talking about the IRA in general. If you have the money in the IRA and you sell, let's say you sold the properties, now you're sitting, you would just be sitting in cash. You can do whatever you want with that. You could go buy more property. You could put the money in a savings account at a bank. You could put it in mutual funds or stock. You're not going to have any limitation on what you wanted to do there. If you ever wanted to pull Money out though for yourself. And this is kind of one of the questions you were asking, said, hey, I'm a little light on cash. Personally, I need some of that money in the IRA. If you take money out of an IRA prior to age 59 and a half, you were hit with a 10% penalty.

Okay.

And if it's a regular IRA, you also are going to pay income tax on the money that comes out.

So typically not a smart financial move.

Yeah. When you talk to any financial advisor, cpa, if someone is in somewhat of financial Difficulty, usually a 401 or an IRA is the last place that someone would look because obviously you want to try not to touch your retirement until you need it. Also because of the taxes and penalties that would then be due.

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so why isn't everyone doing this? Because if you look at the statistics, wouldn't our returns be higher in real estate over the long term than stocks and bonds and mutual funds? Where, let's face it, most people have absolutely no control? Unless you're some kind of insider, you really don't know what's going on with any company. What was that book? Was it Flash Traders or Flash Boys?

Sure, yeah. You know, I could tell you the answer question on why the people that don't do it. I think there's a couple reasons. One simply is they don't know about it, that it's possible because a lot of people, again go to their financial advisor who doesn't tell them. If you have an advisor with a Raymond James, they're not going to tell you that if you'd like, you can invest in real estate because they don't hold that asset. So they're not going to advertise that as a possibility. Another reason would be someone just not feeling comfortable with that investment. If you brought someone off the street who knew nothing about real estate, they're probably not going to do as well as you or the people listening to the podcast are going to do because they don't have the background or the knowledge in that industry to make those types of investments. So that might be why other people do it. But if you have a background in real estate and you know how to make money in real estate and make a very good and consistent return, then I think you definitely should be taking a look at the IRA and what could you do there? What is your IRA doing now where it's sitting? Could you be doing much better with it by self directing it and investing in real estate?

I see. What if somebody wanted to invest just With a professional, they got $100,000 in the IRA. They don't really want to do it themselves, but they'd like a professional to go out and maybe buy them a single family home with a renter in it or get returns with me with raw land, something like that. Is that a viable strategy?

It certainly is. And again, it depends on the individual, what they're looking at doing. You could structure me in what you just described. An investor could come to you, Mark, and say, hey, I'll just. How about I just lend you money and you go use that cash to buy real estate and all I want you to do is pay me 10% or 8% or whatever you agree on. So they would just simply have a loan or a mortgage inside their ira. They could also though have you go out and help them find the property and maybe they pay you a finder's fee or some type of commission for finding these properties for them as well. That is certainly possible and legal to do as well. Interesting.

Okay, now, are there any paperwork issues as far as the deed and the transfers like we talked about in the beginning? Is there going to be anything that's going to slow up my transactions because I'm doing this through a self directed ira?

There shouldn't be. And again, it's going to depend on how ultimately someone's structured if they were simply holding the ira. Having the IRA hold title to the real estate, there is a closing process. We actually sign off on the closing documents and send money from the ira. But this can all be certainly accomplished through email and fax. It's really just a matter of making sure that the closing agent understands that the buyer is an IRA accountant. We send them all of the instructions on how the deed and the closing documents need to read. And at closing time, we simply issue the cash from their IRA account. It's a very simple transaction. It's a cash purchase. So there's no complications. It's just a different titling that goes on the deed. Now, if you're using an LLC rather than having the IRA on the title, you're going to have your LLC on title to that particular asset and you're going to be handling and signing off on the closing documents and holding everything within the llc. Now, if you do decide to use an llc, you just have to make sure again that you don't commingle any personal money in there. You want to keep it all IRA funds. You can't pay yourself any type of compensation for acting as a manager. It has to be simply Just you signing checks and making decisions. But all of the income and expenses related to the investment must come into or be paid out of the IRA account. So the annual, if you have any tax bills, the IRA has to pay that tax bill. If you lease the property for any reason, any income received goes back into the IRA as well.

Okay, so you would recommend then setting up a separate LLC just for making these real estate transactions through your self directed ira. Nothing gets commingled. You don't do anything except work within that LLC for your land investments and paying your property taxes and you know, managing your notes, etc.

Etc. That's, that's correct. I mean it's, and again, it's up to an individual. If they didn't feel comfortable with the LLC and wanted to have us hold on to everything, we can certainly do that. But if you do decide to go the LLC route, it would have to be a brand new LLC entity. You could not use an existing LLC that you had. It would have to be a kind of brand new startup from scratch LLC that is owned strictly by your ira and that's the only money that goes into that account.

Okay, so I want to do that. Now do I go to you and say, okay Scott, help me set up this LLC strictly for investing through IRA funds or do I go and go to like a legal zoom, set up an IRA and then come to you?

Well, you could certainly go to. We don't set up the. Again, even though I'm an attorney and you can hopefully keep the jokes at bay here for a second. But I don't do any of the LLC setups and our company can't do any of the legal paperwork. So we don't handle the real estate closings, we don't handle setting up an llc. You could certainly go to a legal zoom or I know of a few attorneys that we work with that can work and know what a self directed IRA is and know the process. And they might charge four or five hundred dollars or so to get that LLC established and set up and give you the appropriate paperwork to get started.

Okay, is that the way to go then? Someone who already knows about the self directed ira?

We strongly suggest it, we don't require it. So there's plenty of individuals out there who don't have formal legal training who are perfectly capable and knowledgeable to set up an LLC on their own and draft an operating agreement. That's the document that we would want to see. We suggest though, an attorney, someone who's familiar with self directed IRAs, just so they can give you the proper guidance on what you should or shouldn't be doing and answer your questions within that aspect. But again, we're not going to require it.

Okay. So I could be kind of frugal about it and go to a legal zoom and spend half the money, Correct, Sure. Okay. So there wouldn't be any repercussions of that?

No, we're not going to. I mean we're basically going to look whenever we make an investment, whether it's into a piece of property or we're making an investment into an llc, we're just looking at the documentation to make sure that the IRA is properly listed as the owner. So on a deed it would be Advance IRA services for benefit of Mark Podolski's ira. That would be on a deed if you're buying property, if you're investing in the llc, we just want to see that the member, the owner in the LLC is listed as Advance IRA Services for benefit of Mark Podolski's IRA.

I see. Now what about a 529 plan? Like I've got my kids, you know, every month I'm investing my kids 529. I could get so much better returns if I could just invest the raw land into that 529.

You could. And unfortunately though, the rules for 529 plans don't allow for self directing of a 529 because that's each state kind of sets up the different investment possibilities. And generally I don't think the states allow for that. What is possible though is that you can set up and self direct what's called the old Coverdell. They were called Coverdell IRAs but they're now called Education Savings Accounts. You can contribute up to $2,000 per year for a child into an ESA account and then self direct that and use that ESA account to invest in real estate. And the gains that come back in come back into the ESA. Tax deferred.

Tax deferred. Okay. Initially just like the 529. Correct.

Right. But then when you take the money out of the ESA account for qualified education expenses, it does come out tax free.

Okay, so it's tax free. Right. Okay, great.

So yeah, it functions a little bit like a 529, but it's the ESA and you can only put in a maximum of $2,000 per year per child into an ESA. But then again, you certainly can self direct it. There's no limitation on the earnings. And whatever you pull out for education does come out tax free down the line. Wow.

After this podcast, we're going to have to have a serious talk.

That's fine. You know how to reach me.

Yeah. So now for the esa again, can I do it through that same LLC or now do I need to create a separate llc?

You would probably. To make things. I can tell you the easiest thing to do is to create a separate LLC for that ESA account. Just to keep the ESA and keep the IRA separate. It's permissible and possible to combine them, but it would have to be done all at the same time. Having basically your regular ira own maybe 90% of the LLC and have the ESA for instance, own 10%. But you have to then keep those percentages static. And that's kind of where it can get tricky down the line if you want to make additional contributions from your own pocket. So that part I kind of do recommend in a sense to keep maybe two LLCs and keep them separate.

I see. And the fees, are they going to be the same?

Roughly, yes. Our annual fee? Well, just a quick. It's a $50 one time fee to open an account and a one time $95 fee to move the money into an LLC. Then our annual fee for an LLC tops out at $295 a year.

I see.

If you're just starting out with an ESA and your account is say under 15,000 total, our minimum fee is $195 a year. But again, you're going to cap out though at 295 if you're investing with an LLC.

I see. Now I'm going to put you on the spot here and I don't want to make you uncomfortable, but why go to Advanta versus your competition? Because I know there's a couple other big players out there in self directed IRAs. What is, besides dealing with Iraq, obviously you. What's your competitive advantage?

I think our competitive advantage is simply our service. There's a lot of companies out there that are maybe larger in a sense, they have more accounts, they have bigger operations. But I think when that happens, as we've heard from their clients, is you get lost in the shuffle. With Advanta, you get assigned an account manager. So if you establish an account, you get the same person to ask any question you need regarding your account. And I think that gives us a definite customer service advantage that people who work with us, either whether they're local and they can walk in our office and sit down, or even if they're not, there's someone out there just simply calling, they really Feel like they get to know us because they're dealing with the same person every time. They're not calling an 800 number and kind of getting someone who looks their account up in the system and sees who the last person they talked to was and try to help them out. You're going to get somebody on the phone who knows exactly what they need from you. They're still waiting on a form, maybe you're waiting on something else. So you call them and they know, oh, nice to talk to you, Mr. Podolski. If you have that form or what question did you have on your account today or with your llc, they're going to know exactly what it is that you're talking about. I really think that's our main competitive advantage, our fees as well. When you get into with some of the competitors, they charge their fees simply based on the account value. So as your account continues to grow, you're going to pay more and more. If you do use an LLC with us, the fee is simply capped at 295 a year. Whether it's a $50,000 account or $500,000 account, the fee is the same.

Oh, that's fantastic. Okay, well, that's a good answer, Scott.

I practice it, so that's fine. I've been asked before.

All right, fantastic. Okay, so I'm going to put you on the spot again, as I always do with all my guests. What is your tip of the week? It could be a resource, a book, a website, something to help us. Something actionable to help us make money in real estate.

Well, they asked me about that and I thought about it and there's a gentleman local here in our temp area that we have partnered up with on seminars before. I know he does seminars all over the country as well. His name is John Schaub and that's last name is spelled S C H A U B. He wrote a book years ago called Building Wealth One House at a Time. It's more for buying rental properties, but that's kind of his philosophy and his theory that he teaches a class every year on this class on this topic. People come from all over the country, but the book again is titled Building Wealth One House at a Time by John Schaub. It's a great read, especially for someone just getting started, even just to take things slowly and how to slowly build your wealth and not taking on too much at one given time possible. I think it's a great read. It's a pretty easy read and you can even go to John's Website and look him up on the Internet and he's got great resources there. He's a great speaker. He's a friend of mine. I've been fortunate enough to be able to call him a friend because I've met him and worked with him many times. Building Wealth One house at a Time with John Schaub. That's definitely my tip of the week.

I'm going to have to get John Schaub on the podcast, then email him. I just was on the Land Geek podcast and this guy wants to interview you.

I'm sure he'd be happy to do it.

Yeah, that'd be great. That'd be great. That's fantastic. Although I'm making the argument that land investing is so much better. No tenants, no toilets, no termites, no trash.

Very true. But his book, I mean, his book talks about rental, but I know that John, he's a real estate investor. He invests in notes, he invests in land, he invests in a lot of different things. His book is just titled that. I just thought I'd throw that out there. But he's, he's quite knowledgeable. He's been doing it for years. So I'll definitely forward your name and number and his name to you as well. Look him up and I'll definitely make the recommendation he come on your podcast.

Actually, I like the title. I'm going to write a book called Building Wealth One parcel.

There you go.

Through your self directed ira.

Perfect. And I'll write the forward.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. With Scott Maurer, Advanta IRA Services. All right, well, my tip of the week, obviously if you're in that position where you need to start building up your retirement funds, which I would think everyone who's listening to this podcast would be, it only makes sense to grow that self directed IRA tax free or tax deferred. And since majority of the people that are listening to this podcast know how to do this through investing in raw land, it only makes sense to set up that separate LLC and contact Scott and go to Advantage. They've got educational webinars and look, call Scott directly and he'll give you the lowdown just like he did today. Scott, how do we get in touch with you today?

Sure, you can reach me. 800 number is 800-425-0653 and my extension is 1123. I'd certainly be happy to talk to anyone, especially when you get into the nitty gritty with. I mean, obviously the people that are listening here, they got the investment side down. They probably need a little bit more questions and help with the nitty gritty of which type of IRA possibly or how does the process work? And that's something where you're certainly able and willing and want to help people through that process. That is what we are. Again, our service is paramount to us and how we help our clients. Please, again, 800-425-0653 and my name is Scott Maurer.

All right, Scott. Well, I'm going to put that in the show notes as well so if anyone's listening, they don't have to get in a car accident and try to write it down.

All right.

Well, Scott, I really appreciate you taking time today to, you know, really educate myself and the Lange community on self directed IRAs. You know, we didn't get into the topic of what other alternative assets there are besides real estate and notes, but.

That'S, that's primarily our business. But just quickly we see people invest in physical gold and silver, people doing futures and forex trading, people investing in private companies. It could be a private insurance company raising capital. Can't do that same investment through a Schwab account, but you could certainly do it through a self directed account. A lot of very interesting things as well that we see.

That's great. That's great. I want to thank you again and I'd love to have you back.

I'd be happy to, anytime, Mark. I really appreciate you. I want to thank you for inviting me on.

My pleasure. All right, well, Scott Maurer from Advanta, Ira, thanks again and I want to remind all the listeners, look, Learn more. Go to www.thelanegeek.com download for free the Passive Income Blueprint. Get the ebook how to Avoid the three Fatal Land Buying Mistakes. And of course, get this always informative and educational land geek podcast delivered each week to your email inbox. And look, do me a favor. Scott and I aren't doing this just for the fun of it. We want to get some feedback. Leave us a comment on itunes and if you do it, I'm going to bribe you. I'm going to send you out the passive income launch kit as well for free. Just send me or supporthelandgeek.com a little email saying, hey, I left you a comment on itunes. We'll go ahead and get out that passive income launch kit out to you for free. And of course, if you want to acquire some wholesale land, give me some love. Go to frontierpropertiesusa.com and learn more there. So, Scott, thanks again and thank you, Mark. I want to thank everybody from the Land Geek community listening and we'll see everybody next week.

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