We Helped a Stranger Flip Land Profitably

This is Roberto Chavez. Eight years ago he was a stressed out attorney, working late hours, missing his family's milestones. Today he works from his home office, just a few steps away from his kids playroom, making more money than he ever did as a lawyer. What changed? We taught him the simple strategy to flip land profitably in our flight school program that transformed his life. In today's episode, we'll show exactly how he did it and how he's doing now. Welcome to Nightcap.

Looks good. Love it.

It's good.

Mark, very welcome.

Thank you to see everybody.

So on today's podcast, I think it's just tradition to go around and say hello. We've got dude buddy, the Nightcap og Scott Bossman. Scott, how are you doing?

Great, Mark, glad to be here. Good to see you.

Got Handsome Rob, John Burnett. John, how are you?

I'm doing great. I've got kids like on the other side of the door. I'm just listening to all the happy noises. It's great.

Yeah.

John has six kids. So for those of you that tell me, oh, I don't have time for land investing, Boohoo. If John can make time, you can. The Zen master breathe in the mailing without the marketing. Mike Zano. Mike, how are you?

Great and getting better, sir. Nice to be here.

It's good to see you.

And Roberto, I, I don't. What was your nickname?

You. You had a drink nickname for me.

Chavez. Roberto, how are you?

I'm doing great, Mark. I'm, I'm happy to be here and yeah, it's great to, to see familiar faces.

Yeah, I love this new Nightcap podcast format. It's gonna be the new podcast. So Roberto, let's just rewind the tape and, and talk about your story. Like how did you get into land investing?

Yeah, I mean it's, I wish there was this amazing story of how I found you guys and something that can be really captivating, but it's really pretty straightforward. I mean, I went to school, followed kind of the traditional path. My parents always told me, go to school, get a job, you know, know the typical. And I graduated undergrad in 09 when the financial crisis was at its peak. And so I figured I wasn't going to be able to find a job as, as an economist, which was my undergrad degree. And so I went off to law school and worked at a. Graduated from law school, found a job at a law firm and great learning experience. But after, what was it, five, six years, I realized that that lifestyle really wasn't what I envisioned my life to be. And I admired and respected the senior attorneys at the firm, but I really didn't envy their lifestyle in terms of work hours. And so I just started looking for something else. And thank God for podcasts. And so I just started listening to different real estate podcasts because I got into single family homes and figured that that wasn't really scalable. And so in one of those podcasts, you were there. I honestly can't remember which one it was, because it wasn't long into my podcasting journey that I stumbled onto you. And then I just started listening to your podcast. And from there, you know, I remember, like, it was yesterday I jumped on a call with Scott Bossman, talked about flight school, what I could expect, and then went through that process. Then I jumped on a call with you after I finished flight school, and you taught. You told me about coaching and what I could expect about coaching, and I really just haven't looked back ever since. I just stepped on the accelerator back in 2018 when I started one on one coaching with Tate, and it's just been looking forward since then, and it's been an amazing journey. It's been life changing, to be honest.

Amazing. Amazing. Do you remember, like, what the turning point was that made you realize land investing could be your path to freedom and you could. You could quit your. Your corporate job?

Yeah. When I did that, when. When I proved the model, it was crazy. I mean, because my return was like 500 bucks, and I turned that into maybe $10,000. And. And that was crazy money, like, still is, but even back then, it was like, what, $10,000 I was making. I don't know if it was 80 or $90,000 as an attorney a year. And I did like one eighth of that or whatever. The math comes out there in one transaction. And I had the money in my hand, I was like, this is crazy. Like, if I did this only eight times, I'd already be making what I make as an attorney. And so, like, that was really. I. Because I'd never seen, well, personally been part or made possible a transaction of that size and really seeing the fruits of flipping land. So that first deal was like, okay, I'm sold, and I'm gonna do this as many times as humanly possible, because this is awesome. Yeah.

You know, it makes me think of family. So we might as well go to. To John, who's got 27 kids. And, like, imagine John, you know, it's your dream to have an. An attorney in the family, and then they tell you, oh, you know, dad, I'm flipping dirt and I'm making more money doing that. So I think I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna do that full time. What would you say?

Yeah, I mean, I think that it, it sounds like you just be incredulous, right? You're like, wait, what? You're, you're leaving this thing? Like, are you, like, are you joining something crazy? Is this multi level marketing? Like, what is it like that's going on? And I mean, I got similar reactions for sure, you know, jumping into my own business too. Like, because you're leaving something that feels stable into something else and you prove the model yourself and then eventually you prove it to everybody else, you know?

Yeah, yeah. And I was in Mexico with Roberto and his family. So I met his family. They're all really nice and supportive, but I'm just curious. Roberto, like, was it was, did you have to have like this difficult conversation with your parents?

Not, I mean, it wasn't difficult because I, I was, I was 100 set. So it was more of an informing rather than asking for permission or anything like that. But, but my dad was, was kind of, yeah, he, he had his reservations and he didn't tell me directly, but he told my sister after I had the conversation with him. So that, that for him to actually speak up about it meant that he really had reservations about it. But I think he trusted me enough to know that if I was making that decision, it was because I had already kind of factored everything into the equation. So he was, he was really nice. And, and now he's asking me about like, the land deals that I'm doing and, and he's curious and, and he wants to know. So like, I, I can see his excitement about it now, and I, I think he's come around it. I, I guess it's not as cool for him to say that his son is a land flipper rather than an attorney, but, but he sees that I'm happier, so I, I, I don't think he cares that much. Really.

Yeah, yeah. You know, you know, what's cool is being able to work when you want, where you want, with whom you want.

Right, Right.

So that, that I think that freedom's cool. Dude, Buddy, what questions do you have for Roberto before, you know, you're no longer sober?

Nice. Oh, man. For years now you're portraying me as this drunk. No, I'm just kidding.

Not at all.

I, I think you're, you're, you're a fun late night nightcap drinker.

Okay.

But there's been many an episode where by the end words have been slurred.

Never falling asleep. I've never fallen asleep on a nightcap like Zano. So I guess what I'd say is this. A lot of people are tuning in for the first time. They've never heard of us before. They're like, what the heck is land investing? I believe you only need a few things in order to do this business right. You need, you need a little bit of time, a little bit of money. You need a drive, right. Some type of internal drive. You need the ability to follow a recipe. But like, what are, what are some other things that come to mind that helped you in your journey? Like what characteristics does somebody need to have in order to push through and in just a few years time, quit their job and realize time freedom.

Yeah, no, I mean, you mentioned some of the main attributes and, and things that people need to have. I think the only thing that I would add to that list would be like all of those things plus like focus. And because it's very easy to get shiny optic syndrome. And there's other forms of generating money and flipping other things and doing whatever, but like really focusing in and saying, okay, I'm not looking at anything else for the next three years, four years, whatever, whatever it takes. That to me marked a difference because before land investing, I was looking at single family homes, maybe other types of real estate investments. And I was, I don't want to say spread thin, but I was just kind of dabbling in different things. But when I found the land business, it was like everything else evaporated and I was laser focused on making this work. And so I, I think it's sometimes very easy for people to get into this business as just one of those things that they're dabbling in. And I don't think that's the way to make it work. You might be able to make some money, but it's not really going to become your thing unless you're hyper focused and just set on making this work and not, not looking at other forms of flipping whatever else is out there.

Yeah, I mean like literally, I, I take that so literally for me personally that I won't even flip a burger. Like I'm that laser focused on just land. Zen Master, what about you? What are your questions you have for Roberto?

Two quick ones. The first one, Roberto, you mentioned focus several times when you just answered that question. I think a lot of people have difficulty getting into deep focus, doing deep work. Do you have any tips or tricks or Tactics that help you, you know, if you want to, you know, get something done in the business and getting into some deep focus with family, kids, whatnot.

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I guess, I mean big picture wise, you have to have kind of that drive to feed the focus, but kind of more low level ideas that come to mind. I, I started about a year and a half or two years ago, really looking at my week and, and planning out what I do each day and kind of, because we all follow, because of the language program, I follow the 12 week year. And so every 12 weeks I have set goals and then I just reverse engineer what those goals are into what I need to do every week. And it goes to the granular point where it's like, okay, Wednesdays from 12 to 1, I'm going to be focusing on X, Y and Z. And so it's writing those things down and, and really sticking to it as much as possible. It's not bulletproof and it's not, you're not always going to follow through to the dot, but to the extent you have the practice of, of scheduling in the blocks of time to do specific things that really kind of move the business forward, I think, I think you're in good shape.

It's really interesting too, you know, just hearing some of the principles you're using and how they're those, some of the principles we teach in flight school and how they're still carrying through all these years later with you and your business. You know, you're talking about, in one way or another, you're reverse engineering maybe there's probably some swim lanes in there. All these things that are fundamental to the process of building your business in flight school. But here they are carrying you forward all these years later. I think that's pretty cool.

Yeah, no, I mean, good principles, they're, they're solid and they, they live that. They survive the test of time, I mean, because they work. Right? So, yeah, I mean it's, I can tell you I've heard about the 12 week year. I heard about swim lanes in 2017, 2018, and today, to this day, they still kind of keep me in check. So they work. They work for sure.

The second part of my question real quick was, you know, you escaped, you know, from this circumstance that many people are in corporate life or work life. Yeah, I gotta imagine somebody came looking for you from the old life. Like, what happened, Roberto? How'd you get out? Like, does anybody come looking for you and looking for breadcrumbs?

No, I've kind of Been hiding from that world. I don't know. I don't let myself be found by anymore. But no, I mean, it's more kind of closer friends that are curious and, and ask me like, what do you, what did you do? Like, how's it going? And, and they're, they're curious but, but I guess they don't really understand kind of the, the holistic approach we have to. It to them is just kind of like, just a different job. Maybe they don't see it like the lifestyle really that we're pursuing, which is kind of that time freedom aspect, which to me is kind of center and it's, it's in, it's in front of everything else. It's kind of shaping my life around a business model that, that allows me to have that freedom. So yeah, I mean people ask and, and we chat about it, but, but yeah, I, I think unless you start doing it and you're immersed in the community and other people who do this full time, it's really hard to grasp and really appreciate the beauty of, of what the land business offers.

Sounds like the Matrix, Mark, doesn't it? Like you escape the Matrix. This is so. This is going to be like the Matrix 5 land investing.

No, I, I love it. I love it.

Oh, here we go.

So, Handsome Rob, what are your thoughts?

Oh my God.

What questions do you have for Roberto?

Yeah, I'm curious, kind of what, what your schedule looked like. So when you first jumped into this, like, was it easy or hard to commit the time to this? Like, how did you fit it around your job and your life?

Yeah, I mean, I mean flight school was at night, so that was great. It was back, back in the day when it was with, with Scott. So that worked out and so it was really, it was just after hours. It was from 5:36 on and then throughout the day wherever, like I could fit answering calls from sellers and responding and creating marketing material here and there as I could. I, that, that'd be, that'd be where I would fit it in. At the time I was dating my now wife Maria and we talk about this because when, when I told her about the land business and that I was buying this toolkit and I, I was kind of jumping into it that when I first saw that it worked with that first land flip, I told her, okay, this is, this is legit and I think this can really be a, a path to, to something pretty amazing. So we both agreed that like Monday, what was it? Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, we wouldn't See each other like in the afternoon after work because I was going to be working in the land business and then Tuesdays and the weekend. Yeah, I mean, I would like fit in maybe a little bit of land work, but. But it was also time to spend with her. But we kind of talk about how those, that period was really important because, I mean, there was sacrifice and spending time with each other, but it was for a greater good. We didn't know how good it was going to be, but definitely worth it. So. Yeah, I mean, at first when I had a full time job, it, it required some more planning and strategy on, on where I could fit in the time to work the land business, but totally worth it. I mean, I do it again in a heartbeat.

I love it. I love it. You know, in those, in those early days when things are tough and there's uncertainty, there's doubt, there's fear, what was your mindset? How did you get through those, those darker days of embracing the suck? Because let's face it, whenever you start anything new, you just suck. And you have to kind of get your reps in and you get through it.

Yeah, I mean, there were plenty of those. I, I think I, I kind of saw like there wasn't really an alternative, but just to keep pushing through again. I think having done it, having gone through the, the, the buying and the selling of land once was kind of that, that anchor that when it was tough, I knew it could be done. And the alternative to not keep pushing to get it done was never ending. 8 to 5. That was really not an option. And so I, I think going back to like that time that it did work kind of kept feeding me like, okay, you can, you can push through it because the alternative isn't much better. So you need to, you need to make it work.

So good. So good. Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's like burning the boats, right? Just that.

Yeah.

The power of commitment. So, dude, buddy, what questions do you have for Roberto? I'm so sick of my own voice already.

Yeah, yeah, we're not sick of your voice, Mark. Never. We, we, we hear your voice throughout the night, in our dreams for sure. So I think that, I think everything we're getting at here is like, what does it take to be a land investor? And I think another really important thing that it takes is you need to give yourself some permission to make some mistakes. Right. And you also need to commit to maybe a pathway or a journey that's a little bit intimidating to you. Right. Because that's where Growth is going to occur.

So.

So, Roberto, can you talk about, you know, can you talk about that a little bit? Like, you made mistakes and, and you hit dips along the way. Like, how did you push through during the really difficult times?

I mean, I went through coaching twice, and so when I had my, my biggest dips in learning how to, how to grow a business, how to hire people, how to automate things, I was very fortunate that I had somebody to reach out to. And so I had a mentor, I had a coach. Tate was there. I mean, you guys, I mean, everybody in the community, they were open to give a helping hand. And so I think it does mark a huge difference when you're out there doing it alone. And I mean, let's say I stumbled upon land business through my real estate attorney career. I think the experience would have been much different because that was. That would have been just me with my legal brain trying to figure out how to flip land. Whereas here I was talking to people who had 10 years of experience living and doing what I was driving, dreaming of being able to. To do so whenever those hard times came by, I mean, I was just a boxer, a text away, a base camp message away from trying to get some type of resolution. And, and, and, and sometimes there isn't a straight answer, and then it's just more of, of moral support, like, hey, I mean, that happens, you know, sometimes you miss, sometimes you lose a sale that you thought was there. Sometimes people stop paying for your land. Sometimes you didn't do the due diligence the way you should have done it. Like, sometimes it's just hearing from somebody else that has a lot more experience that they've gone through that and it's okay. And, and you just keep going forward. And so, yeah, I mean, the community was, Was priceless.

I love that. I love that. Handsome Rob, what questions do you have?

So if you were to, like, if you were to go back in time and talk to 2017, 2018, Roberto, what would you tell him, knowing what you know now?

Buy more land.

It's never going to be as cheap.

Like, I would have taken so many loans. Like, you have no idea what. Like, I would have taken everybody's money left and right and bought, like, just as much land as physically possible. I mean, I say that jokingly but kind of seriously because, yeah, I mean, I feel like every time. Well, at least since I've been in the land business, land keeps getting more expensive and more expensive. And so it's. It's always a good time to, to buy land. And 2017, 2018 was an amazing time to, to buy land. So I, I mean, I would, I would say that and on a more serious note, I would like, I wish I would have. I mean, I think I did enjoy the ride, but I was really focused on growing and everything and, and I, I feel like those were the good old times when you're just kind of bootstrapping everything and, and starting your business. And I mean, now I, I look back at it with a little bit of nostalgia and I mean those days aren't coming back in, in a way. So I would, I would just try, I would tell myself to savor those hardships a little bit more and those struggles that kind of lead to, to the promised land a little bit more.

So good Zen master, what are your thoughts?

Curious. Roberto, when you left your job as an attorney, how old were you?

20, 21. That makes me what, 30? Fight? 34, 35.

And so if you had not done that, how many more years would you have worked in that role?

What, so what do you mean?

How many more years would you have been an attorney? Like you'd be an attorney now? And how to your 60 to you? Like how, what would you be in your retirement?

Oh, yeah, I mean, I mean there were, there's attorneys there who are in their 70s, close to 80s. And I mean, I don't, I, I, I suppose many of them keep working because they like it and, and it's kind of, it's, it's what they want to do. I would have retired probably as, as soon as I could financially. But, but yeah, I mean there's, there's.

People that 25 years, 30 years, possibly that you.

30 more years.

That's a lot of time.

Yeah, yeah. I mean it's, you think of it that way, different type of. At least for now. It's a different four years of a lifestyle that would have been much different, I mean, just now, I mean that some of you know that are listening and, and you guys know I have a one and a half year old and so many days I'm in the morning I wake up and I'll be with him and Maria will go to the gym and I'll stay with him until 9, 30, 10, and then she comes back and then I'll start working in the land business. And then I get off at 4, 4:30, and, and I'm back to helping out with the kid and we shower them together. And so it's a lot of time that I dictate that I spend with him. Whereas at the firm, I mean I really didn't, I wasn't, I didn't dictate my time. You know, I, I would have to go on Saturdays, sometimes Sundays. The, the times they expected me to be There were from 8 to 5:36 on the Conservative side. So if I had aspirations of growing within that law firm or really any law firm, because those are the expectations in, in the corporate world, I would have been expected to work many, many more hours. And so yeah, it's, I, I mean I've already won four years of much better lifestyle thanks to, to the land business for sure.

How about a real quick tip for somebody that's out there? I know there are people out that they bought their first few properties. They might be struggling selling them. Any advice, any thoughts? You know, just, it can be frustrating to get that first sale, you know, which creates moment. Just curious, you know, people listening right now. Any, any suggestions, any tidbits, motivation to sell?

Yeah, I mean that, that is a, that that's probably the most frustrating thing I think when, when something is taking a while to sell. And I guess the, to the extent this helps is I have properties on inventory that haven't sold in more than a year, year and a half. I mean, of course I'm at a different stage in the business, but to the degree they can buy more land if they're completely vested in the business, the more land you have, the easier it is to sell. But if they're wanting to make that one sell, I mean we always talk about it, there's, there's other avenues. There's wholesaling, there's land arbing the property and, and, and really it's having conversations with buyers. I mean every no is one closer to a yes. And, and that's just the reality of things. And, and so don't get discouraged by all of those no's because those are getting you closer to a yes because everything does sell eventually. So keep pushing.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah, I love it.

I love it. So Roberto, how has life changed for you? Like, like walk us through a daily life. Like we know Maria works out.

Yeah.

What's your day look like?

Yeah, yeah. So typically we'll. Well our, our alarm wakes up at around 6 or 6:30 and so that's the time that, that he likes to wake up. So we usually wake up with him. And so we'll have breakfast. Maria usually goes to the gym in the morning and so she'll go and I'll play with him, just be with him. And, and and look after him until maybe around 9:30 or 10ish. Then I'll. I'll go to my office and I'll work there from 10:30 to around 3:30, more or less. So that's 11:12, about five hours maybe. And then I'll go to the gym and then I'll come back home and I'm around here around 5, 5:30. And we have dinner together and play around with Santino a little bit more, shower him, put him to bed. And then we put him to bed around this time. So it's 7:30 our time. And then it's just kind of our time for. For Marianne and myself.

Does that include a carajillo?

That always includes. Well, on Fridays includes a carajillo.

Okay.

I think you should be like nightcap traditional for you, Maria, to come on, drink. You know, his and hers carillos.

Tell us what. What are we missing here?

You're so white.

What's the cardio? Roberto, just tell them.

So I, I need to, to look it up to see how, what. I mean, it's a liquor and coffee. So. So the liquor is liquor. 43. And so it's a sweet. Like. Like a digestive licorice drink. I'm not sure. I think it derives from.

Sounds healthy.

From brandy. I'm not sure where it, like the derivative. What's that?

Kind of like sambuca, that black licorice flavoring?

I don't know. No, this one's a little bit more kind of on the sweeter side. And so basically you combine that with a shot of espresso of just coffee.

It's fantastic.

Sounds like a Z drink.

Sip it.

You throw it.

No, no, no, you sip it. You sip it. It's like after dinner. So it, it kind of. Yeah, it's. It's for. Supposed to help it. I think it originated in Spain. And so it's for your digestive system.

To kind of all about health, Roberto. So how do you spell that? I need to look up this healthy drink.

So it's L I, c o r.43.

All right. Thank you.

Yeah.

I think the drink itself is C, A, R, A, J, I, L, L, O.

Is that right? Yes. Carajillo is the, the name of the drink, which is basically combining those two things. Wow.

Good tip of the week.

Yeah, it's really good.

It's right there. That'll be my next nightcap drink. Digesting. That's all I'm doing is digesting.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's way better than, you know, what's that the hot drink right now for your gut?

Not. Not good.

Yeah, I like a little kombucha mark. You a kombucha guy?

I've had it. I wouldn't say I'm a kombucha guy.

Dabbled in it.

I've dabbled.

I'm not afraid. I've dabbled, you know. So before this goes off the rails, dude, buddy, what land question do you have for Roberto?

What land question or just what question.

Do you have about him, his business?

I mean we, I think we covered so much. Oh well, we have a question from the audience. I'm gonna cheat. How about I do that?

That's great.

So, so we have a question from Chris Merklein for you, Roberto. Chris, my feather, my fellow Wisconsinite. The snow's coming, buddy. Did you build out your tech stack, Roberto, and, and the automations yourself or did you hire, hire that stuff out?

Oh no, I hired that stuff out. I'm like, I'm young but unfortunately the tech side avoids me or evades me or whatever the word is. So I most, I mean I've been learning a little bit on like Zapier. I've been having some fun with that but, but like connecting air tables and doing all of that. I've hired people to do that because it's not the best use of my time. I'm not going to do it fast enough to justify me spending time on that. And I mean we have access to the entire world at this point with the Internet. So it's really a no brainer to hire somebody for 15, 15 bucks an hour to, to, to do that. Something that will take them maybe an hour or two to do. So, so yeah, most of, most of my tech stuff, I've, I've hired it out.

I love it. I, I can't wait until like we all have C3POs in our home and it's just going to do everything. Like it's just going to be like, oh yeah, you know, C3PO, create my tech stack and automate this and it'll like be, you know, have an API to like all the LLMs. It'll just do it and that, you know, it's like, okay, make me a car. He. Oh.

That'S a dangerous game to have somebody to make them on. On demand.

Yeah, I mean I, my, my prediction is 10 years from now I'll be unrecognizable. I'll be like, I'll be looking like one of those people from what was that movie where it's like, the robots do everything for you and all the humans just get fat. They're sick. They're sipping everything through a straw.

Wally.

Wally. Yeah, I'm one of those Wally people. Yeah, I just can't be bothered. My own personal dystopia.

Answer.

Rob, any. What questions do you have for Roberto?

I guess, did you have any points that felt like a make it or break it point for your, for lane investing?

A make it or break it?

Were you down to your, like, last dollar? Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

Or like, I don't know, I'll give, I guess I'll give an example. Valerie and I, we had this point where we were in this super busy season of life, and we came this close to hitting the pause button on our land investing business for like a month. And I think that that probably would have been the end of it if we had. And so, yeah, I'm just curious if there were, if there was anything like that, that, that you kind of went through.

No, but I did. I mean, I don't think I had anything where, where I came close to, to pausing the land business. I did make the mistake of pausing my mailers for a while, and it's a rookie mistake because you hear it all the time through flight school. Don't stop mailing. But I was running low on funds, and instead of kind of scaling back, I just stopped. And so there was like a huge void of like, two, three months where there wasn't any intake or, or much action. And I had sold, like, all the land that I had at that point in time. So it was like, I, I wasn't like, I, I, I, I made that mistake, which I have never done again. But that's kind of the closest I came to like, really making a land mistake in terms of, okay, this made me lose time and opportunities, but nothing that ever made me kind of think, like, okay, this might be the end of my land business. Fortunately, unfortunately, that never happens.

Yeah, I just saw that, that question pop up. And I get this all the time. People ask me on the podcast, like, what are the downsides of land investing? And I, I struggle. And I'm sort of always embarrassed because in every other business or every other real estate niche, it's so obvious what are the downsides? But in our niche, I always kind of say what Roberto said, which is like, well, people just stop their deal, flow out of fear. And that's not really a great answer. Zen Master. What, what's the downside?

Well, you know, that's, yeah, that's not the downside. They stop mailing. I mean, that's the business is going to stop flowing. But the overall downside of liniments, it's kind of a loaded question mark. I don't really see a negative.

I mean, could it be.

Could it be like, people think it's taxes sometimes, but then I tell them most of us follow a profit first mentality where we allocate the money as soon as it's received. Right. It goes into a certain account. So, yeah, you have to pay taxes, but, you know, the money is sitting there ready to be paid if you follow that mentality. So I don't think that's a huge downside. It's just something we have to account for. I don't know.

What are the gotchas in this business? The gotchas like screwing up and due diligence. I bought.