What You Need To Know To Turn Your Passion Into A Successful Business

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek, with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and on today's Art of Passive Income podcast, we're gonna get super geeky. But before we get super geeky, let's talk to the Six Sigma land geek himself, Scott Todd, from scotttodd.net, landmodo.com and look, if you're not automating your Craigslist postings@postingdomination.com TheLandGeek, you're working way too hard. Networking smart. Working hard. Automate it. Scott Todd. How are you?

Mark?

I'm great. How are you?

I'm great. I'm great.

I'm excited.

I'm.

We're taking this podcast to, like, the geekiest level I think it's ever been.

Yeah, let's just kind of, let's just kind of like, let them know how geeky this could be. Okay. If you don't know what Ruby on rails is or JavaScript, then you can probably, you know. No, I'm just kidding. We're not going to go technical. We're not going to get into. But if you're a coder or a dev, you're going to love our guests.

Yeah.

And I think that really, anybody, anybody that has a vision, anybody that has a dream, I think will love, love today's guest. But I got to know, like, in this podcast, am I going to learn how to create a hello world app in like, Ruby on Rails or something?

I don't know.

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think this is about taking a, you know what we're going to find out. I mean, but I think this is going to be a really interesting podcast. And before we talk to our guest, chuck wood from Devchat TV, Scott, you got anything you want to plug away?

Postingdomination.com thelandgeek I love it. We can't say it enough because.

If.

You are, if you are posting, if you're sitting there today dreading posting your Craigslist ads, knowing that half of them or more are going to get flagged, deleted, you are doing it the hard way. And I have to tell you, just learn this system at the post or postingdomination.com thelandgeek learn the system, execute on it, and then kick your feet up and listen to, you know, this podcast even further.

Yeah. And speaking of kicking your feet up, if you are manually logging in your payments on your notes, I don't know why you're doing that. And if you're paying Too much at another provider, like 2% plus a dollar, plus a monthly fee, plus other fees for ACH. And you can't take credit cards. Go to Loan Geek IO and start getting paid the automated, easy way. Today's podcast sponsored by Lone Geek. All right, let's talk to devchat TV founder creator, Chuck Wood. Chuck, how are you?

Doing great. How are you?

I'm doing great. I'm doing great. Let's. Let's kind of get into your superhero story, Chuck.

Superhero? I don't know about that. You. You're.

You're a developer, right?

Yep.

Tell us exactly what you're developing, what you're doing before you became the. The big dev chat, you know, guy that you are today.

So I started programming when I was in junior high, actually, just fiddling around. I had a TI85 calculator. I thought all programming was. Was toys until I graduated with a computer engineering degree, which is focused more on the hardware end. But my first job, I was doing tech support over the phone, primarily on Windows for backup software. Mozy. And they got featured in the Wall Street Journal. And to make a long story short, they wouldn't spring for tech support software. So we built our own Ruby on Rails. And all of a sudden, it wasn't just toys anymore. And it got real serious. Started listening to podcasts there and started a couple of podcasts. I also had a Screencast series up until I got laid off from my third or fourth dev job in 2010. And, yeah, so in 2011, one of my friends, I'd been podcasting for a few years at that point got on Twitter and said, hey, we. We should have a panel discussion podcast, Ruby. And I've been thinking the same thing. So I jumped in, we put our heads together, and we started a show called Ruby Rogues. And that's. That's how the podcast thing got started. But yeah, I mean, it was Ruby on Rails. When I got laid off from that last job, I went freelance. So I'd been consulting for companies, building software solutions for them in Ruby on Rails and doing a little bit of JavaScript on the front end. But, yeah, that's kind of my programming journey, so to speak, was just. I found a solution that needed to be solved and figured out that programming wasn't just for dumb little projects I did for my computer science classes.

So, I mean, it's pretty cool. I like to think I'm a techie kind of a guy, you know, I get it. I. Not a developer by any means. But I got to tell you like, is there a big demand for like podcasts for developers? I mean, it sounds kind of like, I mean, what, what, what is a typical podcast? Like, you know, hey, check out what I did with this code. Or how is it?

Right. Well, there are different formats, I think, just like in any other, in any other space, you know, you have the business podcast, for example, you have a couple of co hosts chatting about it. You have one guy that's given weekly in depth tips, you have people doing interviews, you've got people you know, and that. You've got the same thing in programming. Now, programming is kind of a different field just in the sense that there's, there's a physics or a visual. Visual. Sorry, I can't talk today. There's a visual aspect to it, so people see what's on the screen. You can't really read code on audio only, you know, it makes sense if you're video and people can see it. But yeah, so we're usually talking more conceptually about code than we are about directly about code. So we may say if we're talking about a library, use this function or this method to get this thing done. Yeah, but yeah, podcasts about code, especially if they're audio only, we're not going to be like def method name, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. It just doesn't make any sense because people can't visualize it as you read it and so it doesn't do them any good.

I can just imagine sitting there with my pen and paper trying to write it out manually. Wait, what do you say again? I gotta go back.

Yeah, it doesn't work. So, yeah, and all of my shows are panel discussions, so we have a bunch of experts on each show that we wind up discussing, you know, the various merits of a way of doing things in a particular language.

Wow, okay, that's pretty cool. So you have this podcast, this one podcast, and. And then like, then what happens?

Like you add another one kind of. So it was May of 2011 when we started Ruby Rogues. And in November of 2011, I got an email from a friend of mine from the local Ruby community because the show was about Ruby and he wanted to start a show about JavaScript. And so he was asking me how to get it started and I was coaching him along a little bit. And finally I said, do you want me to just do this for you? And he goes, sure. And at the same time, I'd been talking to my other friends who were freelancers about starting a show about freelancing. So both of Those shows started in January, and at that point, I started thinking, okay, maybe we should pull together a network. And it took me a few years to get to that point, but at that point, I had three shows, and I knew other people had three shows, and they had. They had some cohesive brand that kind of sat on top of it so that people knew that they were affiliated shows. And so that's. That's how that happened. About a year and a half later, I decided I wanted to learn how to program iPhone apps. And so I started the ifreak show, and I reached out to a whole bunch of people, and again, you know, just pulled in some experts, reached out to the. My existing community. At that point, we got a show started. And about a year after that, two of my co hosts from JavaScript Jabber, which is the JavaScript podcast that started that January, came to me and said, we want to start a show on Angular, which is a framework for building apps in the browser. And so we started that show about two years ago. And, yeah, it's now the second most popular show on the. On the podcast network after JavaScript jabber.

Wow. I love it. I love it. And what I love about it is that you basically took a skill set, right? And you're like, okay, have some problems within this skill set. I'm sure other people, you know, are having some of the same issues that I am having. Why do I share it with the world? And now it's not just Chuck Wood. It becomes a mission, right? Bigger than you. And now you have a tribe. And what's great about that is I'm sure there, you know, there are devs and programmers out there that when they get stuck, right, they come to you as a resource, and you're like, you know, you're like the Mick Jagger in this programming world, right? Is that a fair assessment?

Maybe. I always squirm a little bit when people compare me to a celebrity, because I don't feel like that. For me, it was. It started out just, hey, it'd be cool to talk to somebody about code every week, because I was working for myself, by myself. I mean, I'd have to talk to my clients, but they're not my colleagues, and they're not the conversations that I necessarily would have wanted to have around a water cooler. And these shows sort of provided that. And then it turned out that a whole bunch of other people wanted that too, and they wanted that with some of the people that we had on the show. And so it was less of a, hey, let's all go out and share what we're learning, or let's go out there and be rock stars for the community. It was more of let's go out there and have the conversations that everybody wishes they could have.

It's fantastic. So now you've got a business, right?

Yeah, that was kind of an accident, but yes.

All right, so now you're taking it like, you know what this is? This is a business now. You've got webinars and you've got conferences. Right. You've got podcasts where people are, you know, sponsoring you. So, Chuck, from. From an entrepreneurial standpoint, you're doing it. You're in it, right?

Yes.

What have you.

What.

What have you learned from it? What would have been in some of your. Your biggest takeaways from that journey?

Well, one of the biggest takeaways, turning points for me was back in May, and essentially what happened was I had taken on three new clients as a contractor, and at the same time I was working, at that point, five podcasts. The podcasts, I guess, aren't really work because, you know, I show up and have a conversation and enjoy it. But I realized pretty quickly that with all the work I was doing in lining up sponsors and lining up guests and doing. Doing all that work, plus everything else, I didn't have time to do the contracting. And so at that point, I had to make a decision, okay, do I switch or do I cut back or what do I do? And ultimately, I think the safe bet would have been to cut back on the podcast and go with the consulting, because finding clients is easy. But I really took a deep look at what I really wanted and realized that the podcast really where my heart was. And so I went for it. I looked at it, I did some thinking, I did some, you know, back of the napkin math. I figured out that I probably could make it if I found a few more sponsors, and that would allow me to work full time on the podcasts. And, you know, that's not to say that everybody can just go out and follow your dreams. I mean, you have to have a dream that will actually support you, but mine would. And so I went for it, even though it was risky. And, yeah, I mean, you know, I ran into some issues along the way where the money didn't come in at the same time the expenses did, and I had to figure that out. But for the most part, yeah, I mean, you figure out where you need to be, and then you go for it.

How's your life different now? So.

So that at this point, yeah, I'm full time into the podcasts, which is different, and I really get to focus on helping people, which is the big deal for me. It's interesting, we were talking about whether or not this is passive income, and to some degree it is just from the sense that I can put the podcast together, record the podcast, and the sponsors keep paying. I have a few sponsors that will keep paying me anyway, and then it's just lining up the rest of those. But the other thing is that this is another lesson I learned was that if you can really figure out what you're offering is worth, then you can make that difference up. So this year, I made twice as much as I made last year, or the business grossed twice as much as it last year. And the reason for that is, is because I figured out that the sponsorships I had, I was just making numbers up for the prices, and it turned out that the prices were way too low. And so I ran across somebody who sells podcast sponsorships for a living. We had a long talk. I rejiggered everything according to my download numbers. And, yeah, so now I have a pool of pot of podcast sponsors that I go to, and whenever I have a spot open up, I just ask. And that's all I have to do to line that up. So last year I think I made about a hundred or the business brought in about $120,000 in podcast sponsorships. And this year, we've brought in over $320,000 in podcast sponsorships. Wow. And the other difference is, is that I had to go chase sponsors for every single episode last year. And this year, I find that it's much easier to get people to sign up for several or perpetual sponsorships. And so I don't have to work as hard to sell them. I'm still reaching out to people and talking to them. But my primary goal at this point is to do the podcast and make sure that the quality is there for my listeners, and that makes it worth it to my sponsors. And so it's all almost automatic. I mean, I still have to show up for the sponsors or for the podcast, and I still have to show up and make sure that we have something to talk about every week, but that stuff I want to do anyway. And so the rest of it just kind of works as far as being able to reach out and grab what I want and do what I want. And, yeah, I mean, there's been some other tough things that I've had to deal with. I wound up firing somebody that had worked for me, for a long time in August, you know, I had a few other hiccups here or there, but I'm telling you, this, this is so awesome. Just, just having the opportunity to feel like, okay, I get to help people out, I get to talk to my friends every week on the shows, and I reach out to people and say, hey, do you want to sponsor the shows? And they go, okay. And it all just kind of flows. And it's, It's, It's. It's just nice. It's nice to be able to. I mean, sure, it's been five or six long, hard years of work to get here, but it's a beautiful thing now that it just kind of all comes together in a way that allows me to help my sponsors, help my listeners, help my co hosts, and make a difference in the programming community.

Yeah, I think it's a pretty incredible transformation when you look at it, you know, and we were talking before the show, that I think that really what you're doing right now, in terms of building your own network per se, really the way of the future, I mean, there's literally nothing stopping each of us from having our own network. It's not as easy as, here, let me just record some shows and go to it. But, you know, once you get enough of the shows behind you, I mean, you have this perpetual library that people can keep downloading and listening to that benefits your subscribe, your sponsors, because, you know, they are, you know, years from now, they might still get you know, plugged into that one one podcast. So it's a perpetual thing. It's not like a radio ad that once it's gone, it's gone. So, I mean, you have, you've created like this win, win relationship for everybody. I think that's phenomenal.

Yeah. It's also interesting just looking at that from the standpoint of, I mean, 10 years ago, if I'd wanted to do a radio program on programming computers, nobody would have picked it up because, I mean, am I going to start in the Salt Lake market because I live near Salt Lake City or maybe the San Francisco market, where things were kind of hot back then. But the thing is, it doesn't have enough general appeal for people to want to listen to it. But podcasting has allowed us to build a network on computer programming and reach out to developers and directly serve them. And then, as you said, Scott, that's exactly what allows us to then help people like the sponsors and like the listeners in particular, and just the communities in general.

Yeah. And what I really loved about the way you started was your why, right, you wanted to help people. Right. You know, it would have been a different feel. And I think your, your growth would not have been as dramatic if you said, you know, I want to make, I want to make a lot of money. And so I studied the market and I thought, oh, here's an unserved niche. And you started from that point of view versus, hey, I just want to help people. And almost in a sort of a selfish way. You want to talk to some fun, you know, cool people you want to talk to. Right? Like, oh, I get to, I get to be a fly on the wall and listen to Chuck talk. No Ruby on Rails with some other cool people and benefit from it.

I think that's true. I think it's also, I mean, if somebody went out, found a market that was underserved and, you know, served them properly, I, you know, I think you can make it that way, but it's much easier, much more enjoyable if you have that passion behind it.

Yeah, absolutely. Because when things get tough, as inevitably they will, you've got that behind you versus someone saying, well, things got tough, I have to pivot here. Maybe I'll go to a different niche.

Yeah, exactly. And things think, I mean, things got tough here. I mean, I've mentioned that sometimes the income didn't always match up with the out, you know, what I had to pay. And, you know, so things get, get tight sometimes. And that happens to people. But yeah, I mean, that's what pulled me through was, oh, crap, things are tight. You know, I go to my wife and I say, you know, well, what if I went and got a full time job because I could go get a full time job making six figures really easy. And she's like, no, you're happy where you are. And that's not worth it to her for me to be unhappy at work, even though maybe we're a little bit financially strapped, which happened earlier this year. But at the same time, it's also the emails I get from people that say, hey, I listened to this episode and it really encouraged me that I could do this, and I went and I got a better job or the episode we did. I still get emails about an episode we did on developers and depression where we encourage people to go get help. And I've gotten numerous emails about that where it was, hey, I listened to the episode you did with Greg. I hadn't really identified that I had a problem, but I went and got help. And now my relationship with my wife and my kids are better. I mean, hello, payoff, right? It's those things, you know, it makes me realize that we're having an impact out there. We're making a difference. I've gone to conferences and had people come up and say, hey, I listened to the show. It encouraged me to stick it, stick with it when I was going through the boot camp or learning online. And then I went in for the job interview, and it turned out all their questions were things that you had talked about on your show. And so I went from making $20,000 a year to making $50,000 a year. And this is how it's changed my life. And it's. I mean, that's the payoff for me. The fact that I can pay my bills is kind of a necessity. But being able to have people come and say, hey, look, something you did made a difference personally for me, that's the win right there. And that's. That's what makes me stick through it is I like having the conversations, and I love getting the feedback from people saying that we had. Had an impact.

You're talking about, you know, conferences, and I see that you guys are doing conferences online now. So, like, how does that work? I mean, how do your conferences, you know, work? And how have you built that. That part of the business?

So a couple of guys that I know run Podcast Movement, which is a podcasting conference, and they decided one year that they were going to do an online conference. I think it was like two talks, three nights a week for two weeks. And so I just copied their format because I was like, this is cool. Programmers all over the world can come. So I did1 on JavaScript and it was a success. And then I put on a couple more that year, and they worked out. So the next year I put on a few more. The JavaScript one was a rousing success. The next year, which was last year, and then the Angular Conference last year was also a huge success. And so just financially as well as, you know, just having a lot of attendees really enjoyed it. So, yeah, so essentially the way that they work is people buy a ticket and then they get the link to join the live stream. And then our speakers all over the world, from wherever they are, they get on. Right now we're using Webinar Jam and Google Hangouts, YouTube Live, so they just join from wherever they are. We get the talk started, they give their talk, people join the chat channel, and we have. So we just had community slacks for those, and it works out really nicely for people to be Able to connect with each other to get content about whatever their chosen area of development is. And the thing that's nice about it too is that I've had a few people say, you know, I have a child or a spouse that has some kind of health or other problem that makes it so that I can't travel and so I can't go to regular conferences, but I can come to yours, you know, because they can just sit in front of their desk. I've had companies pay for it as just sort of online training. And so there are a lot of benefits to that where they don't have to pay, pay for airline tickets and have to pay for the hotel. They don't have to figure out how to get their people to and from the conference venue or any of that stuff. They just get to show up. And the speakers like it too because they can show up and give their talk. They can sit through the other talks if they want, but if they don't want to, they're just done. And so there's a big payoff. The things that I'm changing this next year because I've reached out to past attendees and speakers for feedback. The talks are going to go from an hour long each to about a half hour long each. I'll have some 45 minute slots in there, but most will be half hour. I'm gonna go to two days instead of three days, so it'll be a little longer during those two days. But then the other thing is, is I'm gonna do some out of band or not during the regular conference schedule. Events where we just have a couple of Google hangouts where people come on, we just chat about technology or work or whatever and just kind of have a water cooler chat for an hour, you know, so everybody can bring whatever they're having for dinner and we'll have dinner together. Everybody can bring a mug of coffee, we have coffee together or whatever and you know, just kind of have that live sort of kind of in person talking, face to face event and help people connect that way as well.

That's very cool.

I love it. I love it. Scott, why don't we do that like a land geek water cooler case study chat. If you close the deal in the last 30 days, you come on and you talk in depth about your deal.

Yeah, yeah, that's, you know, Mark, it's, it's, that's not a bad idea. And I mean it's kind of like what we're doing in a way with office hours for coaching students too. We're kind of using that same thing as. Here we are. We're just going to gather around and let's. Let's chat.

Yeah. And the feedback's been fantastic.

Maybe we need.

Maybe we need a case study. Bring your deal and let's talk.

Yeah, yeah.

So, Chuck, people love it. It's. It's amazing. But people absolutely enjoy it. And we get the same thing there where people demo their code projects.

Very cool. Very cool. So we're at that point now, Chuck. We're going to put you on the spot.

Oh.

Ask you for your tip of the week.

My tip of the week. All right, so there's this book, and it's called Procrastinate On Purpose by Rory Vaden. You've probably heard of it. You're nodding like you've heard of it. Okay. So it's this terrific book. And essentially what this changed for me was that I would just kind of shove everything over to my virtual assistant. And I started to realize, you know what, there's more stuff I'm shoving her way than she can actually do. And so I need to figure out another way. And then I ran across this book. And the thing that's really cool about this book is it talks about the different steps that you should go through in order to get stuff off your plate. So I started automating stuff, and then I started, you know, I started changing what I was delegating, so more of the important stuff was getting done. And, you know, I just kind of went through his list. He has five steps that you go through with any task to get it off your plate. So you're doing what's most important. And then I was also doing this for my virtual assistant, so she was doing what was most important. And it. Anyway, it just totally changed the way that I operate, and it made some things really easy. So just to give you an example of something that came out of this, when people come on my show, I email them. Sometimes I talk to them first on Skype to make sure that they're a good fit for the show. But most of the time, I already know who they are. I know what they've done. So I just send them a link to schedule once so they get. They get on schedule once. We have a regular recording time, so they just pick what day they want to talk. And then Zapier picks that up and emails them. It sets up a Google Doc and asks them a couple of questions to kind of get things flowing so that we can be well prepared, myself and my co host for the show. So then they type in, here are my talking points and here are the videos you should watch. Whatever. And it emails us that same document so we can ask questions. Okay, I read your blog post, but I still have these questions. And then, yeah, it goes through all the other steps. It emails them at the right time, reminds them how to get connected and all that stuff. So it's really cool. And that was just an automation thing that came out of it. I was doing it all manually before, and so, yeah, now getting somebody onboarded for a podcast takes me all, like, two minutes to write an email.

Man, you spoke our language right there.

Yeah. When you say Zapier, like, we all get real. We get real hot, Bob.

Yeah, we just took this to a whole nother level.

Yeah, I'm an addict. I don't know what I do without at this point.

Yeah, I mean, between iftt Zapier, I know Microsoft came out with their own sort of automation suite. I forget the name of it, but yeah, we're huge fans of automation. Yeah. In fact, now, I mean, we're 90% automated in our business. It's, you know, with software, it's. It's the greatest thing ever.

Well, it's. It's so nice because it gets done. You specify how to do it the right way, so you don't have to worry about any of that stuff. I mean, the only thing you really have to worry about is a breakdown of Zapier or something. But other than that, I mean, yeah, it just. It just happens. It's like magic.

Yeah.

So.

So Procrastinate on purpose Audiobook or regular book?

I listen to it. All right now. There have been some books that I've listened to, and I get halfway through and I'm like, I gotta read this. You know, I can't. I'm listening to it and I'm trying to pick it all up, and there's just too much there or there's something that's rather, you know, process heavy or, you know, I'm gonna have to, like, draw a diagram or something. Those. I have to go pick up the actual book and read it on the Kindle app on my iPad. But, yeah, yeah, this. This was one of those where I could listen to it and then listen to it again, and then I was golden.

Yeah, I just. I just bought it, so I. I'm gonna go back and listen to it.

I have another one if you want it.

Oh, let's go.

Because this one. So procrastinate on purpose. And then this other book are Two books where I listened to them and as soon as I was done on audible, I stopped. I went back to the beginning and listened to them again because I was just like, this is mind blowing game changing. The other one's called the 12 week year and you're nodding like you've heard of this one too.

That's like our favorite book.

Yes. So definitely go do that. Somebody in my mastermind actually created a spreadsheet for it so that you know, you can track all your goals and what you're working on for the week and it tells you what percentage you got done and all the stuff that they talk about there. If you want to get hyper organized and get crap done, I can't recommend this book highly enough.

Please send the spreadsheet when we're done.

Because I think I do that.

We live by the 12 week year. All our coaching clients have to do the 12 week year. It's great. Scott. Todd.

All right, Mark. Okay, so here's what I've got. I've gotten lost now because I had to go chase this down. Hold on. I got to go back to it.

Hold on.

All right, so check this out. I know that you and I, we both use automation to help with kind of some of our social media stuff and that the one app that we use is kind of expensive. So check out status brew.com status and then brew like you're going to brew.

A cup of coffee.

And what that will do is it will recycle your post. It will keep them going and it's very affordable. It's not like 50 bucks a month. You can do it for free or I think the top plan is like 20 bucks a month. So it's pretty cheap.

Wow. Yeah, I'm using meet Edgar for 50 bucks a month.

That's what I'm using.

And yeah, this is a great tip. Where'd you find this?

Addis Brewing? Check it out. Well, you know you're always looking for new, new stuff, right?

I use Status Brew as well, actually.

Oh, you do?

Oh, you do. Okay. So are you, Are you happy?

Yes. So the thing I use Status Brew for is I have a virtual assistant that goes in and does a search for whatever conference is coming up. So it'd be JavaScript right now. And he just goes in and there's kind of a click to follow. It gives you a list of people to follow. I think that's in there. I know I get a bill from every month and I'm using the Voyager plan. But anyway, yeah, so he follows them and then I get follow back. And then what happens is I have an automatic tweet set up to go or DM set up to go out to them and it direct messages them and says, hey, are you a listener to the show and have you checked out the latest conference? And I get responses back all the time. Yes. I love Ruby Rogues, or I love JavaScript Jabber, or I love Adventures and Angular. I love the Freelancer show or whatever. And then I get to have these conversations with the people that my virtual assistant is fighting for me on Twitter. And I get to find out what they like and I get to find out what their favorite episodes were and what they wish we'd do better and what would you know, what they like. And it's really awesome.

That's genius, Genius, genius. Well, I love it. I love it. So my tip of the week is if you are dev, right, and we have a lot of you or a programmer, check out Chuck's whole community at devchat tv. Devchat tv. And for those of you that aren't devs, I have another little tip. It's called Clearbit. Clearbit. It is actually a Gmail extension and it's free. And what it does is it gives you the background information, like report of. Right. But free of the person that you know you might be emailing with. So it's just kind of cool as far as giving you that background information. What's the. What's that site? Let me see. Account settings. It's connect.clearbit.com and it's free. So check that out. Chuck, are we good?

I think so. I just want to quickly point out that we. We currently have shows on Ruby, JavaScript, Angular freelancing and iOS development. I am talking to people currently about starting shows about React and Python. So if you're interested in any of those, go check us out at Dev Chat tv.

Fantastic. I know those words.

When you say Python, I assume you're not talking about the snake.

In the same way that I know the word Mandarin. I couldn't speak it.

Yeah.

Very, very cool. So, Chuck, thanks so much. Scott, Todd, Mark, this has been really interesting.

I've had a good time.

Yeah, yeah. So this is great. I do want to remind the listeners, the only way, the only way we're gonna get the quality of guests like a Chuck would from devchat TV is if you do us a favor as you subscribe, you rate, and you review the podcast. And if you do so, we're gonna give you a gift. The passive income launch kit for free. So please do that. Look, Scott, Todd needs some love. Go to landatmodo.com wholesale. Check out how to automate your craigslist postings@postingdomination.com thelandgeek and don't forget about me. Go to thelandgeek.com download for free the Passive Income Blueprint and get the ebook how to Avoid the Three Fatal Land Buying Mistakes. And of course, get this always informative, engaging podcast delivered each week to your email inbox. Thank you to listeners and let freedom ring.

See? Checks.

He's excited. Wait, Scott, we lost you there. Lost your what? There it is.

I love the hollering at the end. That's awesome.

Yeah, exactly. All right, thanks everybody.

Yep.