Why Is Real Estate The Best Option For Passive Income?

Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Land Geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and before we talk about today's guest, which is really going to be geeky and cool and interesting, I'm really excited about it. I do want to formally introduce my Six Sigma Co host, Scott Todd from Scott Todd.netlandmodo.com and most importantly, if you are not, I don't know why anyone would not be. But if you were not automating your Craigslist postings, hosting Domination.com TheLandgeek Scott Todd. How are you, Mark?

I am awesome. How are you?

I'm in a geeky mood.

You know, our guest is easy to tie our two, two biggest interests, right? You know, like your, your two favorite words are automation and free, right? I think that the most, most people listen this podcast, their, their two favorite words might be, you know, real estate and development or programming maybe.

We have a lot of software engineers. We do, and I think the reason we attract so many engineers is, is because the systems and the processes and we apply it to real estate. So today's guest is going to really help us fill in some of those geeky gaps. But before we talk to john sonmez@simpleprogrammer.com and formally introduce him, it's time to plug away. Today's podcast is sponsored by Loan Geek Automate. Getting paid via ACH and credit card using Loan Geek. No Note setup fees $0.50 flat for ACH, 2.75% for credit cards. Set it and forget it. There's no better solution out there. Loan Geek. I remember when I used to manually have to put in my loans and now I just have to put in a little software and it's done for me. Loan Geek Just email support@thelangeek.com for more information to get into the next beta wave.

God, Mark, can, can we like get someone to really record that for you? Because I don't know, I think like someone a little bit more peppier or something. You know, someone excited, like manage your loans this way.

I think John Sonmez liked it.

I think so.

I did.

It was, it was, it was definitely interesting. So, so, yeah.

All right, all right, let's talk about John. John Sonmez is the founder of Simple Programmer.com and author of Soft Skills Software Developers Life Manual. He created Simple Programmer with the goal of making the complex simple. As a software developer, he often finds that people tend to have a way of making things appear more complex than they really Are he discovered that often the simplest solutions were the best ones, although not always the easiest to derive. And he also retired early in real estate, which. John, tell us about that. What were you doing in real estate?

So, you know, I sort of stumbled into it. I wasn't a genius, I didn't have a super master plan. All I know is that when I was 18 or I guess about 19 and I moved out of my parents house, was looking for somewhere to live and I didn't want to pay rent because I felt like, I just felt instinctively like paying rent would be a waste of money. So I said I gotta buy a house. So I basically ended up, I mean at 19 or so, you know, trying to buy a house. It's not exactly easy. No credit history, right? Not even a lot of money. Didn't really, really have a down payment. But I found this shack for like $68,000 in Boise, Idaho. And I figured I could get some roommates or something. And I couldn't get a loan, right? Finally, finally I got this loan at like a 13% interest rate with a two year prepayment penalty. And I had to dig a ditch to connect the water line to the house with the sewer line in order to seal the deal. But I did it, I got the property and I still own that property to this day. It's worth a lot more than what I paid for it. I'm out of that 13% interest rate. But that was really what got me started into real estate investment. And I didn't really think about the long term effects. I just knew that this was maybe like a smart move to do. But what really got me pushed into it was when I got this opportunity as a software developer. I got this job very shortly after when I was 19, pinks like $75 an hour right in LA. And I went down there, went down to LA and I thought, oh man, I'm rich. I'm just like, you know, I'm rolling in it, I'm gonna, I calculated my income is like $160,000 a year. And I had like per diem. So I was like, it was mostly tax free. And then, you know, so I'm running the math, I'm doing the calculations, I'm like, okay, how long will it be before I'm a millionaire? And so I thought, okay, well let's see, 160,000, take out taxes that are out of there. So maybe I'll leave me with like maybe 120, 110. I gotta, gotta live, I can live cheaply off of like $30,000 a year. So I finally came up with a calculation. I was like, okay, I could save if I socked away everything I had, $70,000 a year, maybe. So then I'm running the calculations. I'm like, okay, wait a minute. That's 10 years. It's only 700,000. 12. 13. Oh, wait a minute. Inflation. I forgot about inflation. So as I run the numbers, I'm like, oh, crap, I'm going to have to save $70,000 a year for the next, like, 15 to 20 years, and then I'll just be a millionaire. And that's not even rich. And I'm making a crap ton of money as a young kid, and how am I going to even hold onto this job? Not going to live frugally for all this time? There's got to be a better way. So I started researching how do people make money in the US Specifically? And it kept coming down to real estate. And so that's what really pushed me into it. I said, wow, either I'm going to, like, you know, work my butt off for years and save every dime that I make, or I'm going to figure out a better way. And that's where I started looking at real estate.

I love it. I love it. Scott. Todd, what do you think?

I think that. I think it's wise. I mean, the, the fact that you went out and you did the math, you figured out, you know, what, what it's going to take. I think that's a missing step for a lot of people that they, they don't sit there and do the basic math.

Right.

Like, they just. They don't figure out what their end game is going to be or what their goal needs to be and then back, back into everything. I mean, that's the simplest way to do it, is get down even to the smallest detail of how many offers you need to make in order to move the needle and accomplish the goals that you want.

Yeah. And being a developer or a programmer, how did you incorporate that skill set with real estate?

So, you know, I definitely am big on systems. I try to systemize things, right? So I want to make things as automated as possible. So that, I mean, that led me pretty quickly. Well, I won't say that again. I like to learn things by making mistakes and getting. Getting beat up. And then I learned. So it eventually led me down the path of using property management. But I will have to admit that I manage my own properties for some time. And, you know, I'm a pretty big guy. I Go knock on the door and say, give me rent. And it doesn't work.

If you had loan geek, it would have.

Okay, well, yeah, yeah, there you go. So I ended up like figuring out how can I streamline things, how can I get this to be fully automated as much as possible? I don't want to, like, you know, take phone calls. I don't want to fix toilets and stuff. And so I came up with, you know, processes. I've got processes for doing everything that I do, real estate wise, including making offers and figuring out what is a good deal. And I wrote software to, you know, figure that out when I was, when I was younger, when I was first getting into it. But now I use property management companies. And so, so I think that that's that skill set. I think, like you said at the beginning of the podcast, this idea of like trying to automate things and get them as much automated as possible, that's something that a lot of software developers, including myself, highly valuable as I run my business, I do that all the time. And so that's sort of what connected the dots, I think, for me.

So you have several passive income revenue streams, is that correct?

That's correct, yeah.

So can you walk us through them?

Sure. So, you know, the. I sort of structure it this way, like at the end of everything is sort of. It's real estate. Right. Because that's, to me, that's obviously, that's the one that's the most reliable that you can count on. It's the only thing I consider true passive income because it always exists. Right. I mean, aside from nuclear war and things like that, pretty much real estate is always going to exist. So I sort of funnel things from my other passive income into real estate ultimately. And that's where I put the biggest accumulation. But I do. So I've got the real estate, I've got a business which I consider mostly passive income because I sell through Simple Programmer a lot of informational products online. And so sales roll in overnight while I'm sleeping. And that kind of runs itself. I've also set up processes within that too. I've got staff H, but they've all got standard operating procedures. And I go away for like a week or so and everything runs. So I don't have to do a lot there besides make it grow. Then I've done some courses for a company called pluralsight where I've done developer training courses. It's sort of like an authorship program where I've created technical training for developers. And that income, just having My courses out there. Last time I did a course, I think was three years ago, and I still pull in a good couple hundred thousand dollars a year of income from those courses that they're paying me royalties. Then I've written a book that, the Soft Skills Software Developer's Life Manual, which pulls in, you know, it's only, it's a traditionally published book, so I only get about 10% of the royalties, but still ends up being a good 10, 10 to $30,000 a year depending on book sales. And then trying to think what else I've got set up. I've got a couple of apps in the app stores. Not much comes in from those, but little pieces add up here and there and that's probably the most of it. Everything else I think that I have, that passive income is really probably coming through my simple programmer business from the different pieces of that. I mean, I consider YouTube videos are kind of passive income, right? Because you make a lot of YouTube videos, you put them out there, you're automatically getting income on those YouTube videos, whether you produce more or not, just from the views. Same thing with a blog. When you've got products that you sell through that blog, eventually those streams will die if you don't feed them. But they're pretty passive and they last quite a while once you build up enough content.

So I like it. Scott. Todd, what do you think?

I think you got a good strategy for passive income. I think that, you know what I hear, John, is I hear you saying that you're basically, you're feeding into this passive income machine and you're leveraging all of the channels, right? It's not just one channel that you're leveraging. You're leveraging YouTube, you're writing books, you're, you're creating courses, you're, you're taking like, and I don't know the exact flow, but you could be taking those, those profits too, and putting them back into real estate to buy more, which is continuing to feed the monster. And then it just keeps, keeps piling back up. Right? I mean, where, I mean, that's kind of like the Pat Flynn model, you know, like that's what Pat's done. I don't think he's done anything with real estate. But, you know, like, where, where do you think someone start off to build their passive income? I mean, I think it's real estate, but where do you think that someone who wants to start off building their passive income should really look?

Well, I think that, I think real estate, I would agree with you I think that's, that's the best place. And like, like you, like you suggested. You're right in your guess is that I do funnel everything from all those other passive income sources ultimately into real estate, because that's the thing that is the most secure and truly the most passive. Right? I mean a business will last, even product, even automated, you know, put apps in the app store, whatever it is. Those things have a life cycle and they will die out over time if they're not fed. Whereas real estate is pretty much going to last your generation and generations after you. So that's why. That's my true security. But I think that there's a couple things that I consider with it, which is that I always look at income sources, especially passive income sources, to have different attributes, right? I mean you, you could consider certain stock options trading strategies as passive income sources, especially if you involve dividend. I mean there's some complex. I used to do some options trading which you could basically make a passive income out of as long as you're disciplined and have a set of rules. And like I said, a business can be sort of a passive income source. But I think what it comes down to is this idea that like these different attributes. So real estate in my mind is, is one that has a fairly. A medium yield, right? Not the highest yield, but I'd say medium yield. It has a very, very low risk. If you're doing buy and hold type of. You're investing, not speculating, but it requires a higher level than average skill in order to get into the game. So I think that's why you get that sort of attribute mix. Whereas something like, let's say stock market investing, just like investing In S&P 500, it has a very, very low yield. It's not. You're getting a few percentage points. Whereas real estate, you could get 10 to 20%, I think return on your.

Investment or 300 to 1000% through all land.

Okay, but. Yeah, yeah, I mean, but in general, what I do, buying and hold rental, residential rental. But I think with stock, again, like I said with the s and P500, your risk is really low, but your return is really low and your skill level is really low. You don't need to know much to do that. And then you've got liquidity too, I think is another factor in those. So I think when you look at those, the investment vehicles, I think what I would recommend for most people kind of based on that without going too, I could talk for hours on each one of the things as I've analyzed them all with spreadsheets and all that. But basically it comes down to this. For me, real estate is ultimately the best option because it produces such a high yield and has such a low risk. So I always recommend that people get started in that as soon as possible. Go ahead and get. Because it doesn't. And it takes a while to get that snowball rolling. So start it now, whatever you can do. Almost no real estate investment is going to be bad 20 years down the road or 30 years down the road. Like, you could screw up and regret it in five years. But if you hold on to it, I guarantee in 20 years you're not going to regret it, even if, I mean, not that you shouldn't be smart about it, but I'm just saying, like, don't be afraid to make mistakes. So get started and get that skill right away. But then the second thing I recommend is to start a business. Because a business is something that has the highest return, I believe, but it also requires the highest skill and it has the highest risk. So it's not a great passive income source to rely on. That's why even me owning a business and you know, when I put money into my business or invest time in it, I get the highest yield of anything that I could possibly do because that's just, you know, it's a ridiculous shield, but it's also the highest risk thing that I do. And I know it's not going to be around forever and I have to maintain it. It's also very low. Passive. Passive, I don't know, passivity. But it's not as passive. Right. So I am taking all those profits I'm making from business. I'm dumping them into real estate, where I know that I've got a long and secure future, even though my yield might not be quite as high as I could from the business. So I honestly think that best thing to do for someone starting out is get real estate figured out. And because that's going to take you a long time, it's going to take you a lot of skill to get up to that. And there's a learning curve. Get that, get a plan together so that you're investing in real estate so you can start doing have something like buy a property every year or whatever your strategy ends up being. And then once you've got that figured out and you've got somewhere to put the money into now go and try and make a business and make a whole ton of money so that you can put it into real Estate, where you're going to be able to be more effective there and really take advantage of the leverage opportunity that you have, you know, because. And then also the length of time is gonna take you time. You're not gonna make a whole bunch of money, I mean, depending on strategy. But if you're doing an investment, the kind of investment strategy I do over the long term, you're gonna make a ton of money in real estate real quick. There's no such thing as getting rich quick in real estate.

So I don't know any get rich quick model. Honestly, it's legal. I mean, I guess if you have a unicorn type of business, like Instagram, let's say. But you know, there's always outliers as far as get rich quick vehicles. I don't know of any legal ones or ones that are just, you know, just total dumb luck. Like, you know, it just like an Instagram. Scott, Todd, do you know anything like that?

If so, I probably wouldn't be talking to you right now.

Mark. Well, you thought it was land investing.

Well, you know, I think that, I think that. I didn't think land investing was a get rich quick thing.

You replace your income in 17 months, three days. We have to, we have to define quick. True, true.

You know, like, you know, I guess it's all depends on your perspective, right? But that's 17 months and three days was not, you know, like, it wasn't just like, okay, I mailed a, I mailed a few offers, you know, I mailed 20 offers in 10 days. And, you know, all of a sudden all the money came in. It was, it was a grind. Every single day. It was like, it was, it was showing up every single day, seven days a week, and, you know, like, trying to be as diligent as possible. And that's really what it takes is making, making a number of key decisions that really get you to where you need to be. It becomes kind of like, I mean, Mark, you know, a few weeks in, a few podcasts ago, I talked about, you know, Grant Cardone's Be Obsessed or be average with everything about land investing. Nothing else existed, of course, my family, but when I was, when I had a moment, I was thinking about areas I would scour the Google Earth looking for areas that I thought would be of interest. I spent lots of time on there. So it's not, I mean, it's not a get rich quick where you kick your feet back and let the money come to you. It was a grind.

Yeah, actually, I agree. So, John, you know, 19. I don't know many 19 year olds that are thinking about long term wealth or passive income. Unless, you know, your father is like Scott Todd or myself, where that's like, you know, what we think about all day long, right? Then we pass that down to our children. Our children ignore us. And they were like, I know you're ignoring us. Ignoring me for now.

Yeah.

One day you'll thank me and you know, here you go, welcome to your first four plex. We're gonna get three renters in, that's gonna your first home. And then blah, blah, blah, I'm gonna build you wealth from day one. But I digress. So John, how did you pick this up? Hmm.

You know, that's tough. I didn't really come. I came from a background. My dad was Air Force. So he was, you know, we were kind of like lower mid.

Right.

So because he was enlisted Air Force, he wasn't officer or anything. Moved around a lot. I didn't really have any. I mean, most of my life I have not really had mentors. I've. I've been kind of. I've always said that I'm the bushwhacker. I go and I blaze the trails and I make a lot of mistakes. I just, I'm not afraid to make mistakes. That's the thing is I'm not afraid to fail and to screw up. And I do all the time. But then I eventually figured out, and that's, you know, I think that's what happened here is.

It's just.

I had this idea, I guess, to come back to your question. I had this idea that I didn't want to work for someone else for my whole life. I've always been sort of a rebel in the fact that I don't like people's rules. I don't like you to tell me what I'm qualified to do or not or how I should live my life. I wanted to have freedom. I wanted to get to a point where I could do what I wanted with my life. I sort of have this theory that in life, and I've kind of developed it over time, which is that we are all born with a mortgage on our lives, right? Because when we, as soon as we're born, you have a debt to pay, like you're a slave. Like we don't give or we're not given an allotment of food and shelter and whatnot. We have to, we've got an upkeep cost. You know, every morning we get up, it's like, bam. We're Negative, whatever, you know, 100 bucks or whatever it is, and you got to work that day to. To get to the positive. And so, you know, I wanted to get to the point where I had built, where I was even where I was level, where I didn't have a mortgage. I paid off the mortgage on my life, and I didn't have to work for someone else as a slave in order to survive. And so that was the kind of thinking that was in my head is instead of saying, this is how you're supposed to do it. You go to job, you go to college, you know, you get good grades, you get a job, you work for 50 years, and then. And then you retire. My mindset was, how can I escape? How can I get out of this system? I'm a slave right now. I have slave owners that I have to work for. And I, you know, I have to work to live, to eat. How can I get out? How can I break that system and get out of it? And that's. That's what I was thinking from that age. I didn't. You know, some of these thoughts are kind of, you know, I didn't have the words for them that I have now, you know, looking back and understanding what I'm trying to help other people to do now. But I had that feeling. I had that idea that I don't want to be trapped. I want to have freedom. And the only way to have freedom in this world is to have financial freedom.

I think you're a precocious kid, John. I think most people discover that their 40s or maybe late 30s, like, they've got to go through so much pain, so much suffering, and then they wake up one day, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm on the back nine of my life, and I have no freedom, right? And then they. They're in enough pain to go do something that makes them, you know, a little uncomfortable, but also super excited and. And hopefully get to the next level in their life. But to do it as young as you did when you've got, you know, let's face it, girls, right? Like, they're not interested. Like, you know, like, when you're 19, you're pretty much. You're pretty much focused on hedonistic type of stuff, parties and girls and, you know, and all that stuff. And then one day you wake up, you're like, holy cow, where'd my 20s go? I've been working all this time, paying all these taxes. I got nothing to show for it. And, you know, so you know, giving that Your dad was in the military, what did he think of this? Like, you kind of like, I'm dropping out in a way and doing this alternative thing. And I wonder if he understood you.

Oh, gosh, no. No, he didn't. I was just thinking about that, you know, when I bought one of my, my townhouses. You know, no offense to my dad, you know, he's a great guy, but he did not get it. He gets it now, like, but he did not get it then. And, you know, I bought this townhouse. That was a good deal, right? I was putting 10% down on it and, you know, and I had, I was going to cash flow positive on this thing and I ran the numbers and I worked it out and you know, I called him up excited to tell him I was buying this townhouse. And he basically, I don't know, like, I won't say the exact words, but it was basically, are you an effing idiot? You're buying a townhouse? A townhouse. Did you know a townhouse is. You know, and he just went off and he's like, I can't believe you would do this. It's so stupid. Why would you do this? You know, just. And you're gonna rent this thing out. And it was just, it was this long, long conversation of him just brow beating the heck out of me being such an idiot. And. Yeah, so. And then the next property I bought, I pretty much stopped calling him when I stopped started buying properties. And, you know, and it took a long time to, to really have those investments pay off. But I knew I had the plan in my head. I'd run it through. I think at that point or at some point I'd read Gary Keller's book, the Millionaire Real Estate Investor, and I was like, okay, because I like that book because he charts it out, if you've read that book, and he's like, this is what's going to happen over 30 years. This is a realistic. You got the patience, you got the time. This is what you're going to see. And to me, it made sense. I did my own spreadsheets and I was like, okay, this is a plan. Like, If I buy one house a year, in 30 years, I will guaranteed be rich. Like, there's no way that this is not possible. So this is, you know, and that was worst case scenario. Best case scenario was it happens in like 15 or 10 years, you know, with property going up. But even if property didn't go up and it just paid off, the houses in 30 years I'd be able to sell the house that was completely paid off that I bought the first year and live off of that and live for the next 30 years. So I just, in my mind I was like, this is the way. There's no way that this, this can't happen. But, but yeah, I faced a lot of resistance, not just from my dad, you know, but from, from everyone around me. I mean, especially my friend. Like you said, you know, being in the 20s, like I would go out to a club and we'd be, you know, it'd be like 2am I'd be like, you know, I'd go home and everyone else would be crashed out of my place, you know, and it's like 7am and I'm up and I'm getting ready and I'm going to work, right? Because I, you know, that it was like I could, I kind of toed the line. I would have more acquaintances than friends, right. It's like I would not let them bring me down. I was always the guys like that was going to work, that was getting stuff done, you know, and still maintaining somewhat of a social life. But yeah, but they didn't understand it.

Awesome. Awesome.

He was obsessed, Mark, he was obsessed.

He was obsessed. And that's what it takes. Honestly, I love that book.

That's such a great book.

That book is good.

Yep. All right, well John, it's time to put you on the spot now and ask your tip of the week. A website, a resource, a book, something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go right now, improve their businesses, improve their lives. What do you got?

So, you know, I was actually, I was thinking about suggesting some of Grant Cardone stuff. It sounds like your listeners are already, you've probably already told them about that based on that. I love his stuff.

Suggest away. What do you got?

But I just came back from Tony Robbins Unleash the Power within this weekend and I am a big fan. Like, you know, I'm not 100% like everything that Tony Robbins does, but I think that going to Tony Robbins, I went to Date with Destiny last year and this was my first time going to unleash the power within. And I think going to a Tony Robbins event is a seminar is a life changing kind of experience that a lot of people that if you're stuck in a kind of mindset, if you, if you, if you feel like you can't do things, if you really have a lot of things that are holding you back in life, this is a great thing. Great. He's a great resource for, like, getting you unblocked mentally and making you, like, really, you know, connect with your. Your passion and to really, you know, go for it. So I think that that's, that's what I'd recommend is go get connected in some way with a Tony Robbins event. Whether you go to unleash the power within or even if you just pick up his, his tapes. You know, he's got some really good, good tapes. I guess they're DVDs or digital downloads now, but. But he's definitely been someone that's really. That I found to be really inspiring in my life. And I mean, there's drastic changes since I started paying attention to his stuff.

Yeah, I love it. I love our power on YouTube. Fantastic video. Very motivational. I am now taking cold showers because of Tony Robbins. And at first I hated it. Now I'm like waking up and. And I'm just, you know, like, I feel alive.

I see you're doing the treadmill walking too. That's. Have you. Are you on. Have you lost some weight or on a weight loss program?

Yeah. Johnny, you don't know me, but before, you know, a year ago, I was £500.

Are you serious?

No, no, no. Sitting is a new smoking. I've always been kind of fit and always kind of been like, yeah, into that kind of stuff. So I just got a treadmill desk years ago. And I'll tell you what was interesting, though, is when I first got it, I did quickly lose 15 pounds. And my wife's like, you're too thin. So now I'm back to eating carbs. But, yeah, but I do think there is something about the mental piece of it. Like we're talking and I'm walking and I love it.

I had a treadmill desk set up for a while, and I used to do it about like a couple hours a day, day while I was working. And then whenever I got on calls, I would be on the trend. That's why I related as I. Because call time is the time for treadmill desk. Right now I've got a standing desk is what I've. And I just stand all day long now because I found I could only do the treadmill for about a few hours and I'd up the incline and stuff like that, and it worked out well. But now I'm experimenting with the standing desk and I'm liking that too for the same reason. Like you said to you, it's just that mental. I feel like I'm sharper when I'm standing than I am when I'm just sitting there.

Yeah, I find my feet hurt when I stand, and they don't hurt when I'm walking, but I have flat feet. Scott Todd swears by this foam thing. He's got the standing desk.

Okay.

I do love my standing desk. I got the standing desk. I got the cushion pad underneath it when I stand. And then when I get tired, I just, I lower it because mine, mine I can raise or lower. I'll lower it and I'll sit on a bar stool or something. But I find like when I'm doing podcasts or calls or coaching sessions, I just feel like I have more energy when I'm standing up as opposed to just kind of sitting there. You feel like tired, drained, you know, your body hurts, your back hurts.

Yep. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah, I got the pad too, and it's. Yeah, I'm pretty happy with it so.

Far, so that's great. Well, Scott, Ty, what's your tip of the week?

All right, mark this one. This one. I am. It's like, I'm excited. I don't have it yet, but I've ordered it and it's. The website is rightsnotes.com like w r I g h t s notes dot com. And what's cool about this is you can literally create your own customizable notebook. So like you chooses, you choose the pages. So if there's a format that like, you, you like, want to follow on a daily basis or a format that you want to stick to, maybe your software designer, software developer, or you need, you need, you know, the, the, the wire. I just want to blank the wire. Wire frames.

Oh, yeah.

Let's say you need paper with wireframes or notebooks with wireframes. You can choose that as an option. You can choose graph paper, line paper, blank paper. You can literally get down to like create the entire notebook based on the, on the design that you want. That's pretty cool.

That's cool. I love it. I love it. Well, my tip of the week is learn more about john@simple programmer.com and John, what can we learn at your site?

You know, it's kind of funny. I say everything and I'm not kidding because what I really do like, what my business is now is that I teach software developers all of the life skills that are non technical. So you can kind of think. Like I mentioned Tony Robbins. I kind of try to be the Tony Robbins for software developers. And I, I go from all the areas of your life, from everything from fitness to finance to relationships and mental attitude and success and motivational type of things. All of that I pretty much cover there. A lot of it is on my YouTube channel, which you can find from the Simple Programmer site. But I pretty much run the gambit. I read like 60, 70 books a year, a lot in the self development space. I sort of consolidate a lot of that and you know, and I try to live it as I'm, as I'm trying to improve my life and I share that.

So yeah, I'll be honest, when I, when I first saw Simple Programmer, I thought, oh, this is only going to be interesting to our, you know, software developer, software engineer friends. But it really is. There really is sort of this, you know, geeky Tony Robbins bend that applies to everyone. So I'm bookmarking your site myself and here's some like this is interesting. Like here's some of the videos on here. Stop procrastinating. Work like it matters. Code your way out of debt now. Code your way out of debt. I'm probably not going to do. But still, you know, successful programmer mindset. Don't be effing lazy. You know how to deal with bad days. You know how to manage a full time job, master's degree in business all at once. Protect your meetings. Productive time. What I wish I knew before I jumped into iOS Part 2. I mean this is all very interesting stuff. The necessity of creativity, right? All the books I read in 2015, here we go, 57 books you read. And it talks about how he picks his books. So this is cool. So I want to thank you John. I want to thank all the Art of Passive Income listeners and go to learn more@simple programmer.com and let's not forget, give Scott Todd some love. Go to landmodo.com wholesale and get some wholesale land. But most importantly, you should go to post posting domination.com thelandgeek and start automating your Craigslist postings and give me some love. Go to frontierpropertiesusa.com get some wholesale land if you can't find anything from Scott. And of course go to the landgeek.com download for free of the passive income blueprint. Get the ebook how to Avoid the three Fatal Land, Buy Mistakes and get this always informative and engaging podcast delivered each week to your email inbox. And don't forget about automating your payments with loangeek IO. I want to thank all the listeners and you know, just do us a favor. The biggest compliment we can get is if you subscribe, rate and review the podcast. It takes about 20 seconds to do so. Do it. And freedom ring. What do you think, Scott Todd?

Let freedom ring, Baby John.

Say it. Let freedom ring.

Let freedom ring.

All right, thanks, everybody.