Why You Need To Get Rid Of Your Money Baggage

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Hey, it's Mark Podolski, the Latin geek with your favorite niche real estate website, www.thelandgeek.com. and I'm really super excited about today's guest for a number of reasons. But before we talk to today's guest, I'd be remiss if I didn't properly introduce my co host, the professor, the brain. You know him, you love him. Scott Todd from scotttodd.net landmodo.com and most importantly, if you're not automating your Craigslist and your Facebook postings, postingdomination.com Scott Todd, how are you?

Mark?

I'm great. How are you?

I'm really great and I'm really excited for today's guest. And I've got lots of questions because I'll tell you, Scott, I grew up hearing a certain money script. And if I asked my parents about it, they'd say, no, we didn't say this to you, but somehow I've internalized the fact that there isn't enough or it's, you know, those nice things are good for those people, but we don't need that stuff. Right? That's showy, right? So to this day, like, I have a hard time buying myself something, but I have the answer. It's Dr. Brad Klontz. He is the founder of the Financial Psychology Institute. He's an associate professor of practice in financial psychology at Creighton University, Hyder College of Business. He's a man managing principal of your Mental Wealth Advisors. He's a fellow of the American Psychological association and a former president of the Hawaii Psychological Association. He has partnered with organizations including JP Morgan, HR Block in efforts to help raise public awareness around issues related to financial health and financial psychology. Scott Todd, a financial therapist, a financial psychologist. I just got done reading his book mind over money. Dr. Brad Klontz. How are you?

Mark? I'm so happy to be here. And let's go ahead and get the therapy session started.

Yeah, I mean, I think we should start. Okay. So, you know, I think I've got deprivation issues. I'd like to know, Scott, what was your money script from your parents growing up? I know you have an abundance mentality.

No, there was no abundance mentality. I mean, Mark, I mean, like, literally, you know, I was raised by a single mom, lived paycheck to paycheck, you know, and essentially, I grew up, and I would be like, can we get this? And she'd be like, no, I don't have. You know, I can't. You can't get this. We don't have the money. We never had the money for really anything. You know, I'm not saying that I was deprived as a child, but essentially, you know, it was always, you know, like, it was always a stretch. My mom and dad really did the best that they could. They had, but it was always a stretch. And I remember one time I went to the store and I wanted. I forgot what it was. It was like one of, like, an album. I mean, I know people are like, what's an album? You know, like, you put on a record player and you play it. I wanted this album. And my mom's like, no, we can't get it. And I'm like, why? And she said, because I don't have the money. And I'm like, well, you have checks. And she's like, no, but there's no money in the bank. And I'm like, just write the check, Mom. She's like, no. And so it was always that whole thing of, we don't have the money, we don't have the money, we don't have the money. And that's really. You know, you grow up and you're like, well, we don't have the money for that. And then, like, you're saying, mark, you know, now. Now when it comes time to buy yourself something nice or, you know, to splurge a little bit, it's like you feel guilty about it, right?

Oh, by the way, I have, like. Like these. These, like, tiny little bursts of rage. Because, Dr. Brad, I have three teenagers, and they'll ask me for something, and then I'm like, you entitled? I could never ask my parents for this. And then I kind of like, all right, I better check myself. You know, that's not good. But it's my default is not good. So I'd love to know, just to kind of start off, kind of tell us a little bit about your background, how you got started in financial psychology, and kind of lead us into what is a money script.

Okay, so first of all, I love how you guys are talking about your own personal experience, and I invite your listeners to think about their own as we're talking about this. And I actually got interested in financial psychology. So I'm a clinical psychologist by training, and I had to borrow a bunch of money to become that. So I had about $100,000 of student loan debt. And I grew up in. My parents divorced early, so we had financial problems in my growing up years. And I got some of the similar message, like, you know, we don't have enough, we can't afford it. I also saw my parents be really good with money. Like, my mom was a bit of a money hoarder, if you will. I mean, she was very much interested in making sure that there would be enough when we needed it. So I was raised with this sort of, you know, be prudent around money you need to not, you know, take on too much debt. And then, lo and behold, I go and get a doctorate degree and owe $100,000 in student loan debt. And in year one, I paid about 6. I think it was $8,000 in interest. And this was a very difficult thing for me to deal with psychologically. So I did what any reasonable person would do, Mark. I sold everything I had of value and I put it all in the stock market. And over the course of the previous year, I had seen a friend of mine make $100,000 trading stocks. And this guy knew nothing about it. But I thought, what a brilliant strategy for me to get out of debt. And I had so much anxiety about being in debt now. I had a great couple months, and then the tech bubble burst. So I put it in about two months before the bubble burst. And those of you who've been sitting on the sidelines now, just be careful. We've had another bubble run up. But I did it. So I put all my money in there, and then I watched it decrease. And it was an incredibly painful experience for me. At which point I looked into the field of psychology, because when I had run into problems in my life and other areas of my life, I found great value in blaming my parents. I'm kind of joking, but I actually did. I actually got on a plane and I went back home and I started to interview my family members because I wanted to find out why would a reasonably intelligent person do something so stupid with his money, which was me. The field of psychology at that point hadn't written about it. There was really nothing. I was actually looking for the book that I ended up writing. I wish I could have found it. It would have saved me years. But psychology had ignored the topic. So I did that. I went home, I started to interview my family members, and I got to tell you, I became shocked by hearing some of the stories that had been happening in my family for generations around money, but nobody had talked about it. So instead, I'm getting these messages and these anxieties around money, but I had no clue why. And so for me, going back, hearing about those stories really set me on the road for my own financial psychology discovery. And then, as I said, the field of psychology had totally ignored it. So I like to joke, within a month or two, I became the world's leading expert in financial psychology because psychologists had ignored the topic of money.

Yeah, that's incredible. And I think it's interesting because I think I read in your book that for the spouses, it's 80% of spouses, whereas 80% of people consider money their number one point of stress. Is that still the case?

That has been the case since before the Great recession, actually, since 2007, the American Psychological association was doing a Stress in America survey where they have people rank various categories like health, children, finance. In the latest version, they put politics. And year after year, money tends to top the list, with three out of four Americans saying money is the most stressful thing in their lives, or at least one of the top two. So we are very stressed around money as a nation, which is somewhat ironic given that we are one of the wealthiest nations. And there's some psychology behind that, too, Mark. But, yeah, this is a huge stressor for many Americans. And when we say see a really stressful situation, we have sort of a natural inclination to avoid it, which makes matters worse.

Yeah, absolutely. So let's define what is a money script?

Okay, so a money script is a typically subconscious belief we have about money. So we're not typically aware of this because money has a tendency to be a taboo topic. So we don't talk a lot about it. It's very often given to us from our parents or grandparents. So you'll see a family pattern getting passed down through the generations. Like, for you, Mark, the money script, there isn't enough. That is a money script that you inherited. And they are also very contextually true. So these beliefs all are 100% true in a certain context. However, contexts have a tendency to change. Right. And so these beliefs, though, won't necessarily change. And when they are anchored in place with very intense emotion. So, like, for example, if you or an ancestor grew up in poverty with the belief that there isn't enough money, that's a very emotional belief. And there are very often terrible consequences for not having enough money. And so when there's intense emotion attached to that belief, it makes it very difficult to change. And there are some theories on health, and part of health is being able to adapt to new circumstances, to be able to shift your thinking, shift your beliefs and not get stuck on a certain line of thinking. And what happens with money scripts when they are based in a traumatic experience, when they're based in a very emotionally intense experience, it can become very difficult for them to change.

Yeah, I mean, Scott, I don't know about you, but like a waste was a very big thing in my family. Like if we went out for dinner, we're bringing home the leftovers and dammit, those leftovers are being eaten. But now that I have my own family, these kids waste food all the time. And it makes me crazy. And I yell at my wife like, no, that's perfectly good pasta. She's like, honey, it's four years, four days old, it's got cheese and throw it out. I'm like, no, let's freeze it. So we're fighting about this, we're fighting about that. I mean, Scott, do you have a thing about waste?

Well, no, not really, but it's funny. I'm laughing for two reasons, Mark, because one, literally, not even an hour ago, my wife was talking to me about dinner for tonight and she's like, I'm thinking about making spaghetti. And I'm like, I like spaghetti. I'm like, but the problem with spaghetti is you make all this sauce and it's just the four of us and then it's like sauce for like eight people, 16 people. It's a lot of sauce. I'm like, and then it goes in the freezer, it sits in the freezer. And I'm like, it just drives me insane because it just sits there taking up space. And so it's not that. And I sit there, I'm like, it's just ways, like it's too big to make spaghetti tonight. So you got that component of it where I'm like, look, don't do this. But it doesn't drive me insane. But it's funny because my wife grew up in a family of six kids and her dad was in the military, her mom was a stay at home mom. Waste is a big thing for them. They were really dialed in. And my wife, it would drive my wife insane when my son would go into the shower and he'd spend an hour in the shower and she's like banging on the door. And I'm like, why? Why are you banging on the door? She's like, he's wasting the water. So I literally took the water bill one day. I'm like, listen, let's figure out how much money that Shower is costing us. It's costing us like, 45 cents for an hour shower. And she's like, oh, okay, that's not too bad.

Yeah. So, Dr. Brad, how do Scott and I really do what we want to do in life, which is, like, improve our relationships with our kids and our spouses and our friends and not let this sort of old script, like, for me, of waste, you know, kind of take the lead, if you will, and kind of, in a way, you know, it's not reality anymore. Like what Scott said. I can afford to waste the leftover food. It's not really affecting my life where what you were saying before, you know, it is a truth. Like waste. You shouldn't just be wasteful.

Right.

But context is important. So how do I. How do you help me?

Oh, well, you're a tough case, but I'll do my best. So I think one of the things that can be really helpful is to sort of trace it, its origin. And so my mother, for example, bit of a hoarder. Okay. So doesn't want to throw anything out. And when you trace back to history, well, she's a child of her parents who grew up in the Great Depression. And you really didn't want to waste anything in the Great Depression. As a matter of fact, your survival was often at risk. And I traced my problems back to my grandfather, who lost all his money, the bank. So when the banks collapse, you go to the bank one day, there's no more money. Well, you don't trust banks, Right? So this was a belief that my grandfather had. And I found out he died in his mid-90s, and he never put a dollar in the bank the rest of his life. So that was such a profound experience for him, which, by the way, is a terrible strategy if you want to make money or grow your wealth to avoid financial institutions. But this fear got passed down to my mother. And then I saw the way she approached money and didn't really get ahead because she never invested money outside of a bank or CDs. So she was extremely conservative. And so then I call it a dysfunctional pendulum swing, where we have a tendency to either do exactly what our parents did or we swing towards the opposite. Right? And so I swung towards the opposite. I'm like, oh, you don't invest in anything? Well, I'm going to do what wealthy people do. And then, of course, I did a really dumb thing and put it all in one asset class. That was highly overvalued. And so now, at that moment, if I hadn't looked into my past, I probably would have swung right back to my grandfather's belief where you can't trust financial institutions. And actually, we're seeing a lot of millennials who have this sort of belief pattern because they saw their parents go through the 2008 recession and get hurt by that. So, number one, I would say, is it really helps to trace the pattern, because those beliefs come from a very real place, a very contextually true place. And knowing that, for example, when I have my beliefs come up, like, one of the things for me is around work, like, I come from generations of workaholics. And if you trace it back, I had an ancestor who didn't do any work at all. And so previous generations have been trying to make up for that lazy bugger. And so we're all feeling like we're not working hard enough. We're not working hard enough. And so to know that is traced back into my family history really helps empower me. So it's not just this thing. That's this truth that resides in front of me. I'm playing out a family script that's gone back for Gener, and it hasn't always worked, by the way. Not having a father around isn't a great experience for kids or grandkids or any of that. So tracing the history can help you gain new perspective. And then the second thing I would say is, and Scott alluded to this already by talking about how he sort of talks back to that automatic money script that's popping up into your head. I call it Creating a new money mantra. So if you have this script going through your head like they'll never be enough, it really helps to actually write that script down and evaluate it a little bit. Is this true? Is this actually true for now for me in my life? And is it true just in one area and sort of flesh it out? And if you can take that one sentence and make it into three or four sentences, it's probably going to be much more balanced and more applicable to your reality right now. Now, that might have been 100% accurate when you were a kid or for your grandparents, but it's probably not entirely accurate right now. And so if you can make that into a sentence. And for me, like, around work, I always felt like I couldn't work. I felt guilty when I was leaving work. You know, I was working lots of hours, maybe like 60, 70 hours. And then I find out my father's working 100 hours and feeling lazy. And I'm just like, this is crazy. This is insane. So now I have a little mantra. So when I'm getting ready to leave work, I'll be like, no, no, no, I need to do work. And instead I'll say, yes, I need to do work. But I've also worked really hard. I really want to spend time with my children. I want them to love me and I want to love them. And I'm leaving work. So what I do is I attach it to a value that is more aligned with actually how I want to be in the world. Because I still have that money or I still have that money belief pop in around you need to work, work harder, work more. That's always going to be popping into my head. But I don't just run with it now. I took some time to evaluate it and now I say to myself, those other things that are in line with my value, so that's the tip I would give you, Mark, is to try to flesh that out, make it more accurate. And for a while I carried around that little script in my wallet. I would actually have to pull it out because my anxiety around not working enough was so intense that I couldn't just have this thought and then erase it. I actually had to pull something out and sort of retrain myself around it.

I think that's great. If you look back at your practice, is there a recurring money script that you see again and again and again and how do you then deal with that so that the listeners. Because maybe my waste stuff or maybe Scott's issues aren't the norm. What would you say is more of a common script?

So in the research we've done on money scripts and we've done this with thousands of thousands of people now in various studies and we identified four common categories of money scripts and one of them is what we call money avoidant. And so this often happens for people who grew up in a poor neighborhood or family. Certainly the way I grew up where you have these negative beliefs around rich people and around money. So rich people are greedy, money corrupts. There's virtue in living with less money. It's almost sort of virtuous. And so that's a money belief that we've researched extensively. And it's probably not going to come as a big surprise, but it's strongly correlated with not having as much money, you know, and sort of self destructive financial behaviors. Because if I have this intense guilt basically around becoming one of those bad rich people and if this is happening in my subconscious and all my family agrees with that, the further, the more money I make the more I'm going to move towards this very undesirable character, this Ebenezer Scrooge type person. I don't want to be that. And so people have a tendency to self sabotage. I've seen this many, many times where people start to have a successful business and then they blow it and it's this self sabotage. You also see it with people who win the lottery. People come into big financial events. We see it with professional athletes and musicians along the way. Where to become one of those rich people causes a lot of emotional distress instead of a tendency to blow up. So that's one category.

What are the other three?

Oh sure. So another one is what we call money worship beliefs. And this is the belief that more money is going to make you happier and it's going to solve all your problems. And this is a belief that's very prominent in the United States. Like we're sort of sold this quote, bill of goods around, buy all these goods and you'll be happy. And so this is what the information that's coming to us. And of course, without a doubt, not having as much financial stress, like being able to pay for your medical care and your food and your housing and all that, you'll definitely decrease your stress and you'll definitely be happier when you're able to cover those basic needs and be able to feel good about that. But money is not going to solve all of your problems. And if you have a lot of money yourself, or you know, people who do, you're going to realize that, you know, you're still human and wherever you go, there you are. So, and the struggles of human existence will continue. But if you look at money as this thing that's going to solve all your problems, people have a tendency to overspend. When that's the case, they have a tendency to get into financial trouble because they might not have a lot of money, but they'll try to buy things that will make them feel happier. So money worship is another one. Money status is another category that we found. And this is where basically it's the keeping up with the Jones effect, which is actually a real thing. We verified it in our research where many of us are really driven by this sense that I need to show my worth by showing external goods to people around me. So these people are more likely to buy, you know, they won't buy something unless it's new. They link their self worth with their net worth, which can be quite dangerous, you know, because as you know, most people who have had Major financial success have also had major financial downfalls along the way. I mean, this is. Research shows this to be very clear, that the average millionaire has had almost three financial catastrophes in their life. And so, you know, you don't want to attach that money to your self worth. You need to see your worth beyond just how much money you're making right now. So money status is also associated with negative financial outcomes because people have a tendency to want to overspend to, you know, prop up their perceived worth. The other category, and there's some good news here, is called money vigilance. This category we found associated with having more money, having more net worth, being less likely to have problems in your marriage around money. These people believe quite strongly that it's important to save for a rainy day. They are more likely to actually tell you they make less than they do, which is an interesting thing. People who have more money actually have a tendency on average to display it less than what the media would suggest happens. I'm sure you're familiar with the book the Millionaire Next Door. Well, I just did. Yeah. Great, great book. I just did a study with Paul Sullivan of the New York Times where we looked at the ultra wealthy and the middle class around a range of behaviors and psychology. And it's certainly true what we saw in that, that the ultra wealthy in our study had 18 times more money than the middle class. But they only spend about twice as much on things like a house, a watch, a vacation. So we have this perception that rich people spend a bunch of money. Well, actually that's how to get rid of all your money. And the wealthy and the ultra wealthy in our study were more likely to be much more frugal in terms of percentage of their net worth in terms of these purchases.

Wow, that's. You know, it's so funny because I feel like I've gone through that. The first two, not money avoidant, but the second, third category, especially from 2001 to 2010, and then because of the financial crisis for me, I feel like now I'm more money vigilant, but I have anxiety about going into number two or number three.

Yeah, and actually it's interesting you said anxiety because the money vigilant, they do believe it's important to save for a rainy day. So they have this belief and they also would say that they'd be a nervous wreck if they didn't have money safe for an emergency. So there is this sense of vigilance. Now we don't want that anxiety to be too high because Then you'll have trouble spending money, which we can see. That's a problem in and of itself where people will have so much anxiety. So they're great savers, but they can't allow themselves to spend on things, to enjoy their life, to enhance their life. Some of these people have a really hard time ever retiring, even though they want to, because they feel like they don't have enough. So I'm going back to the belief that you both share and I do also, which is there isn't enough or there won't be enough. Now, the great part about that belief, it can lead to two things. Number one, it can lead to you saying there won't be enough, so why bother trying? Which is a very real thing. And so people don't save anything at all because they sort of. It's a learned helplessness thing, like, oh, it doesn't matter anyway. There's never going to be enough. So might as well rack up the credit card debt. Might as well buy whatever I can get when I can get it. The other thing that people do if there isn't enough is they have sort of this drive, and sometimes there's some anxiety around it to achieve and to save. And a lot of times these folks do incredibly well in business, so they're extremely financially successful, but they need to be careful to balance it with it's okay to spend. And perhaps there is enough. Perhaps in this moment, I do have enough. Perhaps I should leave work at 5 and go spend some time with my kids. And so very often we struggle with that aspect, where we have a tendency to become workaholics, which is great for success, but it can have some negative consequences when it comes to our health and our relationships.

Scott Todd, what are your thoughts?

There's a lot there, right? It's a lot, Mark. It's funny because we see this in coaching students, we see this in flight school students, where they bring this baggage with them into this coaching program or this flight school thing. And then we ask them, okay, it's time to spend a little bit of money, whether they're investing in land or to buy a tool that they might need. And it might be $10. And I'm guilty of it, too, because when I started, I remember I. I had a conversation with you, and you were using DocuSign at the time. I think you still do. And I'm like, look, here's one that you just, it's free. It's free. And so I didn't want to spend $20, $30 a month. I didn't want to do that. And then you're like, scott, you got to go create some zaps and zapier. I'm like, no, it's $20 a month. No, I'm not going to spend any money. I'm anti this. And then all of a sudden, maybe it's because the money was coming in or maybe because my mindset shifted and I realized, like, these are tools. I've got to spend the money on the tools. And next thing you know, I've got these tools, and I'm like, oh, there's no tool, no problem. Boom. But then you got to be smart about it, too, right? Like, if you're not getting value out of the tool, kill it. Like, kill the subscription. Just get rid of it. But if you're getting value out of it, will then leverage it and utilize it. But it's amazing how many people carry that mentality along with them, even in new ventures. And then, you know what I see, too, is you start to see that, or at least I see it, is that people always think where they are now is never going to change. Even if they're trying to do something to change their lives. Or a great example like, oh, man, in a recession. It's easy in a recession to think it's never going to get better, but yet we know it's always going to get better, but we're like, this is the worst. It's going to be like this for years and years and years. But if you look at the numbers, it's not always. It's 6, 9, 18 months on a recession, and it gets better. But then when things are going great, almost like what Brad said, like, the market is overheated. The thing is, it's never going to go down because we can't imagine that. It's completely the opposite. And we all know it's going to go down. It's going to go down. We don't know when. But you got to get that mindset. To me, you got to get that mindset out of your head to say it is going to go down. Or if it is down, it will get better. It's a cycle. Right. And you got to just move forward with it and get rid of that baggage.

Yeah. I feel like Dr. Brad is sort of saying to all of us, you need to be more sophisticated with your thinking. Dr. Brad, is that a fair way to describe it?

Yes, that's part of it. And I also think that you need to not trust your thinking. That's part of it, too. Yeah, don't just take this natural belief you have or this natural approach. Don't just take it as if it's true reality. And the best way to go. And something that Scott said that I just want to point out is that in our study of the ultra wealthy, what we found is that they were much more likely to have a team in place. They were much more likely to consult with an attorney, to consult with a financial planner, to have a coach. They were much more likely to do that. And I think part of you might say, oh, well, they had more money to do it. But I don't think that's the case at all, because we all get into that point where it's like, we don't want to spend the money and we're worried about it. But I think what happens is what that team does, it allows you to start challenging some of those beliefs, because otherwise they're just scripts running in your head. And when you're sitting in front of somebody who's further along than you are on a path you want to go, they have a certain set of beliefs that you don't have or you'd already be there. And so to be able to be open to learning from how they're approaching this and how they're conceptualizing it and how they're looking at it and what behaviors they're engaging in, it's pure gold. It's pure gold because you're going to catapult your ability to get further faster.

I love it. I Love it. Well, Dr. Brad, we're @ that point in the podcast now where we're going to put you on the spot. I think your mentorship has been unbelievable, and I wish we could just talk to you for hours. And honestly, if I could just teleport to your office, kind of lay down and just let it all out, I feel like I, you know, I'd really be money vigilant when I left the office. You know, of course I'm fantasizing that change is instant. I know it's not. Anyways, that being said, what would be your tip of the week? A website, a resource, a book, Something actionable where the art of passive income listeners can go right now, Improve their money scripts, improve their.

Lives. Well, the thing I'm most passionate about in the last few months is Dr. Brad Klont's YouTube channel. And so I started that a couple months ago, and we've been having a ton of fun with it, and I'm trying to make it actionable. You know, there's A video in there on money scripts and where you can go test your own. There's a video on how to create a money mantra that will be more helpful for you. So I'm really using it as a platform to do as much of this coaching and information exchange as we're doing now and just make it available for.

People. I love it. I love it. Scott. Todd, what's your tip of the week? You haven't done a tip forever, Scott. What's that? I feel like you haven't done a tip for so.

Long. I film every.

Week. I know you do, but I think it's because we took August off.

Yeah. Hey, Mark, what if I could tell you or you could look at what books like well known people are reading? Like Drew Houston from Dropbox, the founder and CEO of Dropbox. Like, what if you could see the books that he's reading or the books that kind of have influenced him? How valuable would that be for.

You? That'd be great. I'd like to know what Dr. Brad's reading. Although if it's kind of like.

I don't know if Dr. Brad is.

In here or not technical, I don't.

Know. Check out this website. It's called wisebooks IO and basically what they have is they have well known people and this is free. You have well known people and when you click like Drew Houston's up right now, you skip to the books and here's the books that he has.

Recommended. You.

Know, getting to. Yes, you know, high output management, effective executive. Just some of the few principal. I know you're a Ray Dalio.

Fan. I'm a Ray Dalio fan. Is dirt rich in there.

Scott? If they interviewed me, I would.

Tell them, but look how I shamelessly.

Plug. That's pretty.

Good. It's pretty good. No, that's a great tip. Wisebooks IO. Well, my tip of the week is go and learn more about Dr. Brad Klontz. His YouTube channel, I'm sure is gonna be amazing. But his website has a plethora of information. There's the books, there's the money disorder assessment. I will tell you that I just finished Mind Over Money and now I cheated. I got the audio book and what I loved about the book was now that I'm meeting sort of like my hero, Dr. Brad. And listen, he actually narrated the book and it's really a phenomenal book. It's the kind of book that you want to listen to over and over again to kind of integrate. And there's great exercises. He's got bonuses at the end. It's amazing. So please go to your mentalwealth.com your mentalwealth.com I will have a link to it. Dr. Brad, this has been great. I just have one more question for you because this kind of comes up a lot with sometimes, like, my wife and I will be talking about a big purchase and I just kind of say, oh, you know, we could die tomorrow. Life is short. Let's just do it. Right. What's your, what's, what's the definitive answer to.

That? I think that's a great way to balance out the belief that they'll never be enough, you know, so that, that's a great example of balance, I would say. And quite often our partners give us some of that balance. Right. So that's what I would say. I say that that's, that's a nice way to modify that. There's, there'll never be enough.

Script. All right, fantastic. Well, I'm not going to have an argument tonight for sure, and I'm really excited about it. So, Scott, Todd, are we good? Yeah. Oh, wait, Scott, you're on mute. Yeah, we're good. We're good. Yes, we're good. Dr. Brad, are we.

Good? I think we're.

Good. Well, I want to thank the listeners and please subscribe. Please rate, please review the podcast, Send us a screenshot of that review to supportelandgeek.com we're going to send you for free the $97 passive income launch kit. It is literally the only way, the only way we're going to get the quality of guests like a Dr. Brad Klontz from YourMentalWealth.com to come on this podcast. So be selfish about it, listeners, and please help us also. I just want to let everybody know, today's podcast is sponsored by landmodo.com Every week I keep hearing about more and more sales and more leads from landmodo.com please go there as well. And I thought this was great. And we'll see everybody next.

Time. Let freedom.

Ring. Thanks for listening to the Art of Passive Income podcast. Start your journey at www.thelandgate.com and www.scotttodd.net. rate and review the podcast and email supporthelandgeek.com your screenshot for a free passive income launch.