Episode #7: Leadership Skills for Teams and Yourself

Computers now have primary control of critical vehicle functions. Welcome to the IBM Keep It Simple Technology Podcast, where each episode we discuss technology but in a simple way. We keep the explanations simple, but what we spend our time on is emphasizing what this technology means to you and how you can best utilize this technology for you and your business. Your host, as always, Thomas Anglero.

Welcome to the IBM Keep It Simple Technology Podcast. I'm your host, Thomas Anglero, Director of Innovation for IBM. And in this episode, we have a treat. We have an extreme outspoken leader executive with worldwide experience. Her name is Esther Osman Stevens. She is— but I, I have— I like her already because she has a little Norwegian in her, so I just got to throw it out there for the Norwegians in the audience. Aye, Esther. Esther, are you there? Are you with us?

Yes, I am here. Thank you, Thomas, for having me.

You're welcome, Esther. This is going to be a great, great podcast. Um, Esther, you have So much amazing experience out there, leading groups all over the world. Right now, your title is Director for Long-Term Business Development in Eastern Europe. And that's great because most people that are profiled on any podcast anywhere in the world are, you know, the United States, Germany, Spain, all these countries. But Eastern Europe are not the forgotten countries. This is where things are happening. And with you being responsible for all these different people in these different cultures in Eastern Europe, You have such amazing insightful information that everybody needs to hear about, and you're also a very outspoken person, and yet you still move up the corporate ranks. I mean, you are like a role model for everybody. Esther, let's start off this whole podcast and let's just discuss your journey, your, your, your role where you are today. How, let's talk, how do you deal with so many different cultures from so many different countries? How do you lead them?

It's— I see it as a continuous gift of adventure. Every country I venture into, the persons that I meet, the new cultures, the new things I discover are gifts, and I enjoy it every time. And I continuously learn and try to adapt and try to see How I can help the people in my team, but also in the extended teams to become the best they can be. With full respect to where they come from, how they operate, how they, how you need to adapt everything that we have and what we do to make it have the best possible outcome for the humans there and for the business that we try to drive. So Central Eastern Europe is a beautiful aggregation of the eastern part of Europe, from Poland through Czech, Slovak, into Slovenia, into Croatia, Serbia, Romania, and then ventures into Russia and the CIS countries, all the beautiful stunts. And it's, it's so rich, it's so adventurous. So when I started that 2 years ago, I'm still enjoying every day I get to interact and and I get to learn even more.

Esther, let's, let's bring it down to be even more, more specific. You used a big word in the very beginning, and you said it's a gift. Can you be specific about what gifts, or gifts plural, that you're referring to?

Well, first and foremost, the gift of getting to knowing so many different people with so such a diverse background, being raised in different cultures, not to the ones that I'm used to coming from the Netherlands. And the gift in that is that, uh, I feel, uh, the, the— it's a blessing to be exposed to how different, uh, pieces of our global society, um, operate in all these different countries. Countries. They have different means of government, different setup of their societal system, different ways of acting within families or broader families, the impact of the nature that they have, the size of a country. Is it a small country or is it a big country? How can big countries be closed and how can very small countries like my own, the Netherlands, be very open and be very global? And that is, I always treat it with the utmost respect. And on the other side, and that is what I think one of my, how do you say that, attributes is, I'm always me. So one of the things that I learned along the way is that being authentic wherever you are is the only way to move forward. Because you cannot be a shade or a certain shape of yourself when you venture across the world. You have to be you, because otherwise it's not going to work. It will be too tiring. And so I always tread into the new countries, into the new communities with my new teams, saying, "This is me. This is what you get." As you referred to in the opening, I'm outspoken. Which is a trait of the culture I originate from and also a piece of the family that raised me. So I know that sometimes I need to be careful with how outspoken I am, but I will never shut up wherever I am because I want to learn. So the biggest thing I do is I ask, and people are always, I find, very proud to answer. When I ask them about themselves, about where they grew up, how the country operates, um, and even people that are unsure in the beginning on how to respond to my questions, uh, then it becomes a matter of getting more acquainted. Tell your own stories and allow them to tell them their stories, and basically nothing is off limits. You can be you are.

Let's break that down, right? This, this podcast is called Keep It Simple, and, and I think a lot of things you're saying are very powerful. And, and let me try to summarize it. If I summarize it incorrectly, please correct me. What you're saying is, as a leader of multiple countries, multiple cultures, it is fundamental to have conversations and real conversations of Who are you? Where are you from? Try to understand who they are. And then also don't compromise on your own self. Don't put up a false person to them. Be your authentic self. And you're proof of the pudding, as the expression is, that that style of being transparent to your employees and also asking your employees, so your team, whatever you want to frame it, that you want them to be transparent back. And that is the, I guess, the template or the step 1, step 2, step 3 to success. Did I summarize that somewhat correctly?

Yes, and thank you very much, because it's very difficult to describe how you operate because the majority of what I do is based on gut feel. And as you said, me just being me, um, and trying to explain yourself is, I think, something most humans struggle with, so including me.

Well, it's called, it's called years of wisdom to get to the point where you get to. And, and the reason why I bring that up is really important. To get to the years of wisdom, that moment, years or maybe decades down the road where you have an epiphany of where you're more comfortable, who you're at, where you're at, and what, what you are You have to first be who you are, right? In that first day, in that first year, and then it could take— goes on and on and on. So being a leader, my point is, being a leader is being your authentic self all the time. You agree?

Yes. Because I think if I look back at the 22 years I got with IBM, I could not have survived or have grown the way that I've grown if I would have been just a piece of me or just a framed, formatted piece of me. Because when you go out and you actually travel, or in my case, half of it virtually travel the globe, because my biggest aspiration to meet all of the beautiful people that I connected with will probably never become reality, specifically not now. But I try to meet as many people as possible. But then it can only happen if every time you step into a new adventure or a new, new environment that you've never been in before, it starts with you in your ground position, which is you being you, which is me being me. This is who I am. This is what you get. Someone, in this case the corporation, is asking me to perform a certain role, a certain job. Let's see what I have. I, and it starts with me, it starts with the human element saying, okay, this is me. And this is, I got this beautiful team from somewhere. I got a beautiful mission. How are we going to make it work? And the first focus I have is on the people, because the humans are the critical single element that actually make or break any system. Any order and are the glue that holds it all together. And that is what I think, in my honest opinion, sometimes underestimated in the way we are currently or have been designing certain business models, corporate standards, or financial models. It's underestimated and undervalued. That's from my point of view. If you look at me being a leader, I start with the human element.

Esther, there's a— you've touched on so many points, so let's, let's just keep on digging because this is great stuff. There are many leaders out there who aren't outspoken and who don't have those real conversations with people. Do you think that's a road to success? Um, and that's question number one. And then question number two, you were talking about the current business models, how that's not working. Is that kind of related, that there aren't enough real leaders out there and the end result, we eventually have gotten to where we are? You could attack either one of those questions any way you want.

Yeah, and I told you before, you need to keep me structured because when you ask me to speak from the heart, I tend to fly across everything.

Go ahead, go ahead.

It's a really good exercise for me.

Light up the cigarette, put your feet on the sofa, I don't care.

I'm not allowed to smoke in my house. No, it's, if you look at business models, and this is based on the background where I come from, so the science that I studied, any model is a simplification of reality. And so what we humans tend to do when we start simplifying it to make it simple, say, well, you're trying to, let's make it simple, let's eliminate noise, let's eliminate pieces that confuse, let's eliminate things that may be unpredictable. We make it simple and we build a model. One of the things that, from where I'm sitting, we've optimized in the past years, maybe a decade or two decades, is that by modeling the entire society and systems and corporate systems and business models, We have also gradually eliminated the human element. Yes, we look for leaders, but we look for leaders that can deliver on financial models.

Mm-hmm.

If you look at automation, if you look at simplification, if you look at cost-effectiveness, human resources, the human was simplified to an element in the model being a cost element. Which, back to what I said earlier, is undervalued and underestimated. The human is so much more than a mere cost element. And if you restrict any human being to doing something that is written in a job description, and you try to equalize a beautiful pool of 50 people or 1,000 people to do the same job every day, actually in that model eliminate creativity. You eliminate the ability to do things differently. One of the core values in the company we work for, which I hold very dear, is challenge the status quo. Look for other ways of doing things. What do you don't like? And yes, I'm outspoken, so whenever I bump into something I don't like, I will say so. That's not always appreciated, and I've learned along the way that there are moments you need to keep your mouth shut, but there are moments you need to speak up. And this is what I've tried to also bring to my teams in whatever way, shape, or form they were, and how spread or close they were, is that I wanted them to at least find the closed circle with me leading them, that they felt that they could speak up on any topic to me at any time. And I think in all my job roles I had, I managed to get to that point where there was enough trust and enough, uh, open communication that actually The true things that needed to be discussed, whether it was in a specific client situation, whether it was technology-based, whether it was a personal discussion on someone's work-life balance or my own work-life balance, it could be discussed. And then you get to the core, and the core is who you are and why you do what you do, and, and how does it make you— how does it make you a better human for yourself? But then in that respect, immediately for your own personal environment, so your families, but also in your working environment.

Esther, you paint a very beautiful picture, but it's also a very difficult picture if people aren't where you are, uh, mentally and spiritually, let's say. What advice do you have for a person listening to this podcast who is not there? They're on the other side of the spectrum, let's say, but their ambition is to get there. How do you make those steps? How do you get from someone who's followed all the standard ways of doing things and want to get to be that better leader who connects with people, who is more comfortable having those conversations. Do you have, from all the years of experience, do you have any advice, like step 1, step 2, step 3? Or maybe in this one area, life isn't so simple.

Well, I think you ended with, uh, the right phrase. Life is never simple, and that can make you feel sometimes a bit anxious. You can be, in some cases, be a bit afraid or unsure. On the other hand, life is not simple, and that's the best thing ever because that means that we can learn, we can grow, we can have fun, we can explore new things. And you need to be able to— and that's where you need to start with yourself. So where am I, and am I basically pretty satisfied with where I am? You don't have to be happy 24/7 because no human is, but you also don't have to be sad 24/7 because no human is. You need to find the right balance. So what, what triggers you on a daily basis that you say, hey, felt good, this was good? When do you have uncertainty? When you have fear? But those exploring, those are emotions. Which is a thing that in the corporate world, by God, emotions, let's eliminate. Look at the business model. It's a spreadsheet with numbers. There's no room for emotions.

Why, Esther? Why, why, why is it we, where are we there?

Good question. No, because, and I think in the last years, we have all seen that if you look at what we do amongst leaders now with positive leadership, We should have them. It starts with at least seeing the words on paper, at least trying to express it. Maybe, and this is what I, for instance, do, is sometimes look at someone else. Sometimes it's easier to look at someone else than yourself and say to that person, I see that you're happy. I see that you're tired. I see that— it leaves the room for the other person to say, you're seeing it wrong. I may look scared, but I feel better than ever. So where is the incongruence there? So why do you discuss it? The other piece that is very important to more and more understand yourself— and let me be clear, I'm not even close to understanding my full self, but I'm getting better every day— is that you need to take time. In my current role, long-term business development, and this is what I've been discussing with my teams and also in the other roles where I— this was part of it, and now I'm fully focused. Time is the most important piece of the equation. You need to actually sit down, shut down, and think and let your mind wander and really process all the information and input you got from a client, from the internal IBM exploration, and puzzle it out and try to make sense of it. And time is something we rarely give to ourselves. We rarely give enough to our families, but we also rarely give in corporate environment. What we currently have With the global pandemic, with massive amount of countries in lockdown, and most of our colleagues also listening to this podcast, we're home. Some of us tend to be in Webex from early mornings till the evenings to just continue the same flow and act like basically nothing has changed, only I'm doing Webex.

Exactly.

Actually, we should step back saying This gives us time, and time is what we then need to actually look at yourself right now. You're inside your house, you cannot go out. We humans are social beings, so we love the interaction with people, and now you have to interact with your family probably more than ever. Take that time, treat it as a gift. Embrace it. And yes, there will be moments that you go like, can I please have some 5 minutes of solitude, of being alone? And if you are alone, because currently in the phase of your life, you don't have a partner or you've chosen to be alone, and you are alone, and sometimes the walls come crashing in on you, reach out to someone, just randomly dial a number in your address book, say, I just need to speak to someone. There are more people that feel that way. And I myself, I love being constantly together with my husband and my sons. But I so treasure sometimes having a conversation like we are having right now with someone else. Because it's a different— it's not a pattern. It's not something you're used to. It's not the spouse you're married to for 26 years. It's someone actually, it's fun, it's new because it's a person you haven't met before. They can give you new insights, they can ask challenging questions, or they can help you structure your thoughts that ramble all over the place. So that's where I think it allows us to focus on us and where we are. And why we do things what we do. That, that's what I do with my team currently. I did it this morning again. Everyone can share whatever they want. Some have a personal story, some have a business or a client story. Thomas Anglero is puzzling with a piece of technology and finally has the time to really drill down deep into something he wished he had time for before. So I think we all need to find our way in this new, um, way of doing things. And I think it's, it's a massive opportunity to, to really understand ourselves better and how we can make tomorrow better than it was yesterday.

Wow, Esther, I think we've covered, we covered a lot, but so many of the important messages you gave, I think are really important to a lot of people. And I'm only gonna choose one right now to just spend a little time on before we wrap this whole thing up. And that's the one when you talked about time, cuz time affects everybody. And the one thing I wanna remind everybody is that it's never too late. If you're a leader today and you're not the leader you wanna be, if you're not the person you want to be, Your time's now. It doesn't matter if you're 65 or 75, 55 or 25. The time is always now. It's never too late to be that ultimate version of you. And you're proof of someone who has spent years or decades being themselves, and now you find yourself leading another global team, successful married to wonderful men. Before the podcast, I saw your son, who now will have candy and cake for breakfast, but that's another story.

Thank you.

You're welcome, anytime. But time— be nice to yourself, people. Time is on your side, and you can always be that person you want to be. Just decide right now, and then time works in your favor. Esther, do you have any last parting wisdom? Because that's really what you've been sharing to all of us, uh, to, uh, take us out with this podcast. Anything?

Um, on your comment on time, something I had to learn over the years is that when you are in a moment that you truly enjoy make that last 10 seconds longer. Well, have a success. When you have something, you just hang on to that moment for just a little bit longer and cherish it, and then make that feeling the goal for your next big project, endeavor, or whatever you want to do. You know, you want to know how that feels. And that's, as you said rightfully, the be in the moment, even though you're working on something that is, for instance, in my case, years out. You know that moment will come. That's what keeps at least me going, and I know a lot of people in my team, uh, are working on the same premise.

That is beautiful. That moment will come. Beautiful. That's— that was Beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. Thank you so much, ladies and gentlemen. Esther Ashman Stevens, IBM's Director for Long-Term Business Development in Eastern Europe. And I have to share with everybody, she's also a farmer and she's looking out her window right now looking at all the sheep. Am I correct, Esther?

Yes, because the latest sheep is going to give birth, I think, in the next 24 to 48 hours. So I'm checking her as we do this.

Fantastic. Everyone, this has been another fantastic podcast. Esther, we thank you for your time. My name is Thomas Anglero, and this is the IBM Keep It Simple technology podcast. We thank you for your time, and we hope to see you soon.