The Loneliness of Leadership | Thomas Anglero

How come they always choose the ugliest pictures of myself? I have no idea why. This is embarrassing. Good afternoon, everybody. These lights are incredibly bright. I am Thomas Anglero. I'm the Chief Technology and Innovation Officer for Cognizant, a huge multinational company. And today I'm going to talk to you about leadership. I'm going to talk to you about being a great leader to your teams. But you know what? You've probably heard that conversation 1,000 times, right? You've never heard it this way. It's gonna be completely, completely different because a lot of you probably lead teams. Everybody leads projects, right? Everybody led a project, raise your hand. This is inter— ooh, cool, interactive. We're not in Norway. I live in Norway. You ask people to raise their hand, they just, you know. So Lithuanian style, right? So you've led projects, you've led teams, you've led people. But one of the experiences for me, you know, at a vice president level, I lead thousands of people. But the one experience in my life that's led me or gave me the best experience to understand how to be a good leader, because you can't say great leader, then people look at you funny, right? I'm a great leader, sounds weird. How to be a good leader was that I was a basketball coach. And this is Lithuania. Do you guys love basketball? Do you guys love basketball? Does anybody think they could take me in a one-on-one? Yeah. How much money you got? Who said yeah? You? You played for the national team? Sure. And coached the national team. I'll give you money. I was a basketball coach. I coached for 10 years. I started coaching little boys at 6 years old. All the way up to when he was 16 years old. Any of you parents? Raise your hand if you're a parent. Cool. Anybody want to have a tall kid? Put them on a basketball team. It's a phenomenon. When these kids are 6 years old, they're so tiny, right? But how do you know that when they're 16 they grow to be so tall? It's an amazing thing that happens. When I was coaching them at 6 years old, I would start practice and I would say, Okay, let's start practicing. How tall are kids? They're about that tall, right? And a basketball's about that big. What happens when they grab a basketball? They start rolling with the basketball, right? This was the beginning of practice at 6 years old. But what was amazing being a coach of these little kids all the way up was all of a sudden I started realizing that I had a role other than being just a basketball coach. I was actually their mama. They're papa. Mr. I coach the national team, do you agree or disagree? Now he has nothing to say. Gotcha. You become a mama and a papa. Let me share with you an experience. I have so many experiences, but being a basketball coach was amazing because you have all these little kids that look up to you. They go, hey coach, what's next? Coach, what are we supposed to do in this situation? You're in a game, they look at you. Coach, we're down by 1, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? Let me give you a couple examples. There was one time, one of my players, his name was Ulrich— was— his name is Ulrich. Sweet little kid. He was about 9 years old. He's one of our top scorers, one of our top players. He could do it all. He could dribble, he could fake, he could do it all. He came to practice one day, and I said, "OK, let's start practice. Everybody start doing layup drills," right? And Ulrich is sitting on the bench crying. Crying. So I said, "You guys keep going, I'm going to go talk to Ulrik." So I go talk to Ulrik and I say, "Ulrik, what's wrong?" And Ulrik's crying. "Ulrik, talk to me, what's wrong?" "Thomas, last night my parents told me they're divorcing. My father's moving out." A 9-year-old kid. That's trauma. And as a coach, you have to deal with that. As a leader in your company, you have to deal with people's trauma. You are the mama, you are the papa. And poor little Ulrich, we didn't see Ulrich. He didn't come back to us for 6 months. He came to practice, but he wasn't there. We would be running a drill and Ulrich would run this way and we'd say, "Ulrich!" "Come on back." Oh yeah. 6 months we lost Uriq. How many of you have had trauma in your life when you were a kid? We carry that with ourselves all our lives, and we carry that into our job. We carry that, all these things that happen to us, all the time. There was one time we were down by 1 point with 5 seconds left. I called a timeout. The team came in, and they just look at you. Just like at work. What are we gonna do? We're about to lose money. There are gonna be layoffs. What are we gonna do? And you as a leader, you have all these people looking at you, depending upon you. As a coach, the very same situation. We're down by 1, 5 seconds to go. You call a timeout. You call a play. You get them together, put your hands in, go! Everybody runs on the court. There's one guy, I said, come over here. I said, Marcus, come over here. Marcus comes back, he goes, what's up, Coach? I go, you're going to take that ball, you're going to go between those two gigantic trees, they had these two guys over 2 meters tall. I say, you're going to blow through them, you're going to lay that ball up, you're going to put it in the basket, they don't exist, you can do it, it's your moment. I said, "This is it, you can do it." And he looked at me with like 9-year-old eyes, "OK, Coach." The referee blew the whistle, gave the ball, we took the ball in, Marcus got the ball, flew through the air, through the 2 trees, laid it up, it went in and we won. Your job as a leader, to make other people see you as a leader, to lift them up, you are to make people believe that what you see in the future, who they can be, their potential, you are to put it in their mind and to make them believe that before they get there. It is your job to do that. That is how you become a great leader. Making people see what you already see. That is your job. Beyond the situation where they're at. A 9-year-old is not made to handle 5 seconds left, you know, everybody's watching, 100 people are watching, you're down by 1, I get the ball, That's a stressful situation. You put him in the head, you know what, Marcus, I already see you, the ball going in. I already see you celebrating. Just do it. He turns his back, he walks onto the court, then I'm going, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then it just happens. Trauma, baby. You gotta deal with people's trauma. Are you guys ready for my presentation? That was the warmup. Was that okay? Yeah? Who wants to play me in one-on-one now? I'll take on any woman. You know, I'm way off— but you hear me? Cool. I once said that, I was joking, I was practicing, we were practicing in college and there was all these really good women ballplayers and I said, who wants to play me in one-on-one? This woman came and played me in one-on-one. I found out she actually plays, she's a professional women's basketball player. Respect to all women, I will never play a woman in one-on-one ever again. She beat me 15-nothing. It was embarrassing. Back to the presentation. I could do that. Is that you up in the top right corner, your left corner? Is that your everyday? Do you feel the panic? Do you feel the stress? Are people saying, "I want more from you"? Emails are coming in, phone calls are coming in. Let's talk about the lockdown. You're almost never supposed to talk about COVID anymore, but remember in the lockdown how stressful it was? We all became a little bit broken today. We never really recovered. There's a little bit of stress left in us. What happened? You never really got peace. Okay, okay. In some places in the world, it was hard as hell. You were stuck. People in UK couldn't leave their apartment. Do you know what people in Norway did? I'm throwing people in Norway under the bus today because I'm not in Norway. So let's have fun with Norwegians, right? My neighbors, right? I would come outside during the lockdown because we were allowed to leave our houses. I would come outside and my neighbors would be coming to me. They ski up to me, "Thomas, look at me!" And I'm like, "Yeah?" "I've never been this thin. COVID's great!" And they ski away. Norwegians are very funny people. But for the rest of the world, is that your reality? Do you feel the stress today? More and more people want more and more from you. Emails don't stop. Your girlfriend doesn't stop. Your boyfriend doesn't stop. Your mother's calling you. Am I right or wrong? Feeling stressed? Yes? Nobody got their hand— wow, like 2 people. God bless Lithuania. How about the picture on the bottom left? Anybody got kids? If you got kids and you say you're not stressed, you don't have kids. Who's stressed? Who wants to get rid of their kids? Ugh. You're not supposed to say that, but yeah, right? Isn't that hell? You're trying to be on a Zoom call, Teams call, you're trying to be professional. Everybody saw that video with that guy, CNN, he was doing that interview, remember? It was hysterical, wasn't it? And then after that video became your reality, isn't it? Everybody's stressed out. Everybody's feeling all the stress that's going on. And we never got a break. It just kept on going and kept on going. When you were stuck, I had a bunch of my colleagues, they're saying, "Thomas, you're so lucky. You're an executive. You have so much money." I'm stuck in a small little studio apartment. On this side of the table, I'm sitting there on my Zoom call. And on another table right behind me is my boyfriend. We thought it was so cute and was so nice to be together. After the first month in COVID, after 2 months, I was ready to kill him. How many people— I'm not going to ask you, this is very private— but relationships suffered during the lockdown? Yes or no? One guy's like, hell yeah, got rid of her, got rid of him. I'm sorry, don't know today. How is your relationship today? How are your employees' relationships? The people that you're leading, as a leader at work, do you know if they're stressed out? Do you know if their kids are driving them crazy? Do you know if their relationship's okay? As a leader, you're supposed to know. As their mama, as their papa, is a freaky thought to think, I'm not their mama or papa. You are. As human beings, we're wired to look up to people. Or were it to say, "I trust you." Or is that your everyday? That's my everyday. Is there some point in everyday that you ever did— some point in the day you go, "Oh my God." Yes or no? Okay, who at the end of the day is just going Tinder, left, right, left, right? Tinder doesn't exist here? Bumble? What's the big one in Lithuania? I got to learn this. What? Say it again. I'm setting you up. I just wanted to hear you say it 3 times. Sorry. You didn't see that coming. Is that your reality too? Is that at the end of the day, it's too much? Let me tell you about the story, the picture in the middle. That's my picture. Now, that's not a picture of me. But that was a picture of me just 3, 4, no, 2 months ago. I was in Paris, France. I was sitting under the Grand Arch in La Défense, France. Yeah, if I get that right. And I'm sitting there, and I've never been there before. All I know is there's this beautiful arch. It was a beautiful summer's day for some reason 2 months ago in France, in Paris. The sun is shining, and all of a sudden, the arch is located in a tech hub where all of a sudden it was lunchtime, and everybody came down for lunch. All these young people working for for all these startup companies. They come down and they're talking to all their friends and everybody sits around me. There's all these steps just like in the photo and everybody sits around there laughing and having a wonderful time. And all of a sudden I realized they formed a circle around me just like that woman in the picture. What would you feel like? How do you feel if everybody around you, you got all these young people, all these old people, everybody having fun around you and you're sitting by your yourself and you're all alone. It's lonely. But what did I do? I didn't feel lonely. Because I had in my left hand my chipotle burrito. I'm an American, I live in Norway, there's no chipotle. I get my hands on chipotle, I'm happy. In my right hand I had a Dr Pepper. Anybody had a Dr Pepper? That thing's illegal, baby. That stuff got something powerful in it. It was a beautiful summer day. I have wonderful young people around me. People are laughing, people are playing music. I just stretched my legs out on the steps. I leaned back, I was smiling. I am in heaven. This isn't a horrible moment. I'm not alone. This is it. Oh man, I am in heaven. Oh my God. Typical garbage, you know, American who just stuffs in their face. That's me. I'm just happy and feeling good. I'm smiling. And all of a sudden, I looked to my right, and there to my right was this beautiful woman who was smiling at me. And Miss Tinder, I smiled back at her, and she smiled at me. I didn't take it any further. My point was, she saw that instead of me be feeling lonely, instead of me feeling like, oh, oh, I was happy in my own skin. I was happy who I was. I was embracing the moment. Life was good. I turned something that could have been negative to something, to a life moment. So much so that she recognized it and she was looking at me and she was amongst all her friends, they all were laughing, and she was looking at me saying, "God, I wish I was him. God, I wish I was him." You as a leader, people look up to you. You are the center of the solar system. You are the planet that everybody revolves around. All your people look up to you. When something is negative, you have to learn to take that within you and turn it into something massively positive. I am not alone. I am the one that you envy and want to be. And the most pretty girl here is looking at me, and I am looking at her. Got it? That's what it means to be a leader. You are to lift everybody up around you. That's what it takes. Being a leader is about managing yourself. That's what nobody talks about. They say being a leader, you gotta do A, B, C, D, E. It's all about you, the inner you. You know when you're on an airplane and they say when the masks fall, you put on the mask first before you take care of the kid? Everybody remember that? It's the same thing being a leader. You have to take care of yourself before you give anybody else advice. Isn't sometimes life feel like that being a leader? You have one employee who's super sensitive. You gotta be really careful when you talk to him or her. You have another employee, they can take it a little bit. But everybody's different. After a while, you're a leader like, oh God, it's like walking on eggshells. But life is different. Life throws at you so many different things, so many challenges. It's just like the dominoes. I love the dominoes. You guys will never look at dominoes again after you hear this story. You ready? Yes or no? Yes. Here we go. Dominoes. Every domino. What happens if you take one domino, you knock it over? It just goes boom. No big deal. Boring. What happens when you line up a whole bunch of dominoes? What happens to that last domino when you hit the first domino? Doom, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo. The last domino, what happens to that one? It flies that way. Doesn't it? It has all the power, all the force from all the other dominoes, and it flies. Each one of those dominoes is trauma in your life. And you as a leader, you as a leader of your life, to manage your life, you have to say, "Enough!" You have to put your hand down with all the traumas that are traumatizing you. The bad boyfriend, the mother that did this, the father that did that, The interest rates that keep going up. Anybody struggling now to pay some bills because the interest rates keep going up? I am. Yes? No? Too embarrassed? It's reality. Everybody's struggling. Things that have happened to you. Oh, I feel so sorry for myself. Dominoes. Trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma. You have to say enough. Enough. You have to manage yourself. To lead other people, you have to take care of yourself. And one way you do it is by saying enough. Enough of all the traumas. Enough of me feeling sorry for myself. Enough! Have you guys had it? Is it enough? Yes or no? Enough? Say enough! Not yeah, enough! How do you say enough in Lithuanian? What? Jana? Okay, Jana! This side, Jana! Jana! Jannah! Jannah! Enough! Do you feel it? Does it feel good? The next time something traumatic happens in your life, so your boyfriend comes up to you and says, "You know what?" Your girlfriend says, "Ugh." What are you going to say to them? Jannah! Say it! Jannah! Let's try it out. I don't love you anymore. I don't love you anymore. Let's try it out at work. You're not getting a promotion. You're not getting a promotion. Why are you guys laughing? This is supposed to be a traumatic moment. You're like, "Ta-da!" Crazy Lithuanians. But are you crazy, the guy over here? That's not how you handle stress. Even though the way you're handling stress right now is really cool. That's really cool. But I dare you to do that when your boss— or whatever, let's leave that alone. Is that how you handle life? That's not how you're supposed to handle life. Anybody ever had a boss who overreacted? Let me share with you a story I'm not proud of, but I want to share it because I'm sure you can relate, especially people with parents. Matter of fact, everybody could lead because everybody was a child. So I'm going to share with you a private story. I have kids, and I am not proud of some of the things I did. I remember during the lockdown, I'm working— or no, actually years ago before that, I was doing one of my startups, working at home, trying to make it happen, right? Create something from nothing. And my little guy, who's today 194 and gigantic beast of a guy, Actually, the other day he came up to me, this beast. I still see him in diapers. It annoys the hell out of me that he's so big and I still see him in little diapers. He came up to me the other day, he goes, "Papa, you know, when I was a kid, you hurt me." And I looked at him and go, "I'm sorry, Moritz." And he told me about one time when I was working with my startup and I was very stressed out, you know, just trying to get funding for the company. It was really hard. And he came up to me, you know, with his thumb in his mouth, you know, they're walking in their diapers, and he tapped me on the shoulder, he says, "Papa, I want to play." "Morris, I'm busy." "Papa." "Morris, not now." How many people are guilty? Does it hurt? Guess what I did? Guess what we did? Trauma. How many of you had that when you were a kid? Do you remember your mother and parents did that? When you needed them, somebody yelled at you. Anybody got it from a schoolteacher that they yelled at you? Anybody in a relationship where you went to somebody and said, "You know what, I'm not having a good day." And you really want a hug from them, you want them to listen to you, you just want to get a hug. And they're like, "No, I ain't got time for you now." Let's pick on the men. Women, how many times a man has disappointed you and gave you some trauma? Say, "Jannah!" Yes or no? Jannah! All the men have been nice to you. Wow, okay. Let's try the men. Men, I'll just stop there. My point is that we give our own kids trauma. And we don't even know it. We don't want to hurt the little guy with the thumb in his mouth and the sweet little thing. But it happens in life. But you're not supposed to react that way. It doesn't work. It hurts. It causes more trauma. As a leader, you are to take care of people. You are— they look up to you. Be careful of what you say and how you say it and when you say it. Yes, you're stressed out, but remember that one moment of "not now!" Trauma. And you can't take it back. As a leader, Can I talk to you now? I'm having a situation with the guy in the other cubicle down there. Or I have a situation at home. No, I'm busy. Go in my calendar, find a meeting for me. I'm available next week. Drama. Do you understand being a leader is very personal? It's all about you. It's not about them. It's about you. You gotta fix you before you can love other people. See the chart in the bottom that says coaching. It's got all these boxes. It's got all the typical explanations. As a coach, you're supposed to develop people. You're supposed to give guidance, listening, support, skills. Blah, blah, blah. From that chart, what's the one word missing from that? To be a leader, to be a coach, what is the one word, if you listen to this presentation, that's not there that should be there that you have to have and give? Thank you, love. Nailed it. Love. How to be a great leader? Be your own brand. You are your brand. Be that person that you want other people to see. I'm not talking about fake it till you make it. That's crap. Never do that. Be that brand. When you walk across the stage, do you walk like this or do you walk like this? Do you walk like this? Be, stand, feel like you want to feel. When I was sitting there under the arch relaxing, eating my chipotle, drinking my Dr Pepper, smiling, She saw, and she says, "I want to be like him." I was my own brand. As a leader, you have to be your own brand. As a father, you are your own brand. As a mother, as a husband, as a wife. Now we're giving life lessons. Isn't that cool? Oh, I love this one. Are you a team player? How many times you as leaders, you go, you start off a meeting, we're starting this new project, we're all gonna be part of one team, we're gonna be a bunch of team players. Anybody ever do that? We're part of a team. Do you know how destructive that is? Let me break it down. It doesn't work. How many people play team sports? Everybody's a basketball player, you played a team sport, right? Cool. Michael Jordan, everybody knows who Michael Jordan is, right? Yeah. Did he win a championship by himself? No, he had to get a bunch of other players and he realized it's a team sport. You have to work together. There are so many people who've never played team sports. Remember, I'm coming from a background of being a coach, so I look at things a little differently and I realize that when I'm running teams, I start asking people, excuse me, have you ever played a sport They go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I play sports. I play golf." Okay, is it a sport? Question mark. We're not going to go there. Right? Because I don't think you break a sweat other than the heat. But in golf, do you rely on other people? No. So in his mind, he understood what a team was. Team was me. A lot of people, the people in your team, the people in your group, when you tell them we're gonna be one team, a lot of them don't know what team is. A lot of them are saying, "Yeah, we're gonna be one team, and at the end of this project, I'm gonna get the bonus, I'm gonna look really good, I'm gonna get the promotion." That's the way people are wired. Because what I realized was a lot of people have never been on teams. They never been in a situation where you do self-sacrifice for others. When you guys came into this room here, did anybody see a chair that they were about to go to and somebody else go to and say, "Oh no, please, you first," even though there's a better seat? Do you practice self-sacrifice for the sake of someone else? That is a team player. When you're on a team and somebody's doing a push-up and the coach is saying, "Hurry up," did you jump to that person and go on the floor, "Coach, I'm gonna help him do the push-ups"? One of your players are running, he's really tired, you run next to him, "Come on, I'll run with you." Self-sacrifice. That's the essence of a team player. Where do you see self-sacrifice in the office? Anybody? I know I haven't seen it around the world as I travel. Lithuania, are you different? Does anybody go, "Hey, you know what? You get the bonus. I'm okay." Yes or no? Anybody ever heard that? Do you understand my point? A true team player says, "For the sake of the entire team," I am willing to do less, or matter of fact, I am willing to do more. You're struggling to write that report? I'll stay late. I'll call home. I won't be home for dinner. I need to help out a colleague. And I'll put in a couple extra hours to help my colleague. That's a team player. As a leader, when you tell your people, "We're one team," do you have any idea what they're thinking? Do you understand what I'm talking about? Team is different. But now I want to introduce to you something that's completely different. The new member of your team. I've never seen anybody talk about this before, but because we are here where we are, everybody heard of ChatGPT? Everybody's ridiculously bored with ChatGPT by now? It's coming from the crowd that said Tinder. It's really interesting. It's the same exact thing. You didn't realize. Have you heard of AutoGPT? All right, we got 3 nerds who don't sleep at night. Got you. What I want to introduce to you, I'm about to show you a very short film and it's called AutoGPT. So what AutoGPT is just a layer on top of ChatGPT. This is what you're going to watch and this is what you can experience because my point, and I'll tell you where I'm going, your new employee is AI. And I'm going to show you a film of where this just happened 2 weeks ago. So this film's only 2 weeks old. The developer who wrote the code, he was not a coder. He did it in 4 days. So what are you going to see that's going to blow your mind? You're going to see a guy who wants to order a pizza. So he talks to his AI, his virtual assistant. He says, hey, I want a pizza. The pizza says, OK, let me create an AI in real time. In real time, it creates another AI that never existed before. That's an expert in ordering pizza, and then that AI will order the pizza. My point, and I'll hammer it home after you see the video, this is real, this actually happened, you'll see the conversations. As a leader, are you prepared to be the leader of this? Where's AI? It has no physical form, yet it threatens to take the jobs of everybody on your team. Everybody on your team is getting trauma from the damn thing that doesn't even exist. The thing that works 24/7. The thing that doesn't even take a salary. Guess what? What's the word again? Jesus? Ghana. Ghana. I'm going to have nightmares on this Ghana. Huh? Oh, like Ghana. Ghana, Ghana. I'm Lithuanian. Why'd you make me be like an idiot for the last 20 minutes, you saved me now. "Are you married? Good luck, my man." You know, you lead with that. You don't wait 20 minutes into the argument. Ladies, am I right or wrong? Ladies, say Ghana! Ghana! That was your moment, ladies. You blew it. Anyway, let's watch the video, and then I will explain everything to you. And that's it. Hello, I am here at your service. What would you like to do? I'd like to order a pizza. What type of pizza would you like to order? An 11-inch pepperoni pizza, regular crust. Okay, great. I will first search to find a good pizza place in your area. I have found a pizza place called ZaPizza. I will now create a pizza ordering bot who will call this location for you and will order your pizza. Super amazing pizza ordering bot reporting for duty. I have been instructed by the other AI to order you a pizza. I will now call Zappizza using the Twilio Voice API and order you a pizza. Thanks, Alexa. How may I help you? Hello, I would like an 11-inch regular pepperoni pizza for pickup, please. An 11-inch what size? Just a plain 11-inch pepperoni pizza, please. Okay, and what time would you like to pick that up for? I would like it now, please. I can have that ready for you in about like 20 minutes? Yes. Awesome, and can I get a name for the order? My name is Josefina. Okay. Thank you. See you in about 20 minutes, okay? Goodbye. What you just saw, if you could hear it, the audio was a little low, so good night to the audio guy back there. What you just saw was an AI, the virtual assistant. The guy says, I want to order pizza. The AI said, sure. It wrote the source code from scratch and then compiled it and launched it in what? Half a second, and a new AI existed. An AI created a new AI that never existed before that was an expert in a subject matter that it read the entire internet, it read every book, it looked at every video. It was a master and it was able to call a pizzeria, found the location of the person who wanted the pizza, found the nearest pizza, called the place, talked to the woman, and she spoke in terrible American English, right? We heard that. And it somehow understood her and it completed the thing. Here's the thing. What question do you have in your life? What answers do you want? AI creates a new AI to answer your question. That's your new employee. That's the trauma for your people and your team. That's what nobody's talking about, but I want to introduce you to today because in my talk, I'm supposed to give you new stuff, and that's the newest thing. Your new employee is AI. With my final slide, I wanna put it all together. Leadership is the merger of people, culture, and technology. You as a leader, you have to be able to handle all the different type of people that there are, all the different type of cultures, and AI is its own culture. Anybody? Are there Gen Zs here, you interesting people? Anybody work with Gen Zs? Anybody find them insanely interesting? One of my sons is a Gen Z. He came to me the other day. He goes, Papa, you have to validate my feelings. I was like, what? What does that mean? And I wanted to make fun of him, but I love him so much. But I understand that That culture that's coming now, they're only teenagers and yet they start off a conversation with, "You have to validate everything I'm about to say." Very different. You have older people who think it's really cool to dress up like the 19-somethings. I don't know what the hell that is, but you have so many cultures that you have. You have the X's and Z's, the millennials, and what's missing from this is what? AI. That is your challenge. That is what you have to deal with. And how do you deal with it? Remember that moment in Paris? You center yourself. You become happy in your own skin. You feel your power. You say, I am not stressed. I got this. Ghana! Enough with life. Enough with all the things that are going on. Ghana! Ghana! Ghana! I got this. You need help? I will lead you. Ghana. All right? The next time you have a review with one of your employees, just go, Ghana. The guy who has a bad relationship is the only guy who told me. You guys got this. The way to lead people is not about them. It is about you. Go forth and spread beauty and light, all right? I love you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.