Profit First: Beyond The Book with Sandra Withers

Welcome to Profit First Beyond the Book, a podcast that takes you beyond the book with Profit First, brought to you by Tim Seymour and the rest of the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team. Well, we're off to a flyer in 2026 because I actually didn't think the intro was going to start then, so it seemed to be me clicking, but it kicked in in the end, so we're all good. I'm joined today by Sandra Withers. Sandra, welcome along, please.

Thank you for having me. Um, yes, yeah, thank you for having me, Tim Seymour. Um, so yes, so I am, um, I am a Profit First professional. So I qualified back in, I think it was 2021 actually, it was during lockdown, during COVID But my business, my career, my path took a different direction. So I'm now actually a transformation coach and an international retreat leader. So I help busy, brilliant people strip back the noise, you know, all of that noise that, you know, all the shoulds, the coulds, and all that sort of thing that's going on. From the mind and the body. And I help you cut through that people pleasing, that perfectionism, all that pressure that we are under and that we put on ourselves, as well as sort of, you know, society and our business and hope and life in general. And I help you sort of strip, you know, cut through all of that so that you can really understand who you are underneath it all. And by doing that and looking through that lens of this, this, this true version of yourself, the You-est You, you can then move your business forward, you know. So I'm not a business coach, I'm much more interested in you as an individual, as a human being, but it, it naturally affects, you know, those solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, small business owners, etc., to really move their business forward because most of them are their business. So yeah, that's what I do.

I love that, fantastic. And it, and it sits in alignment with Profit First so nicely, hence why this is a natural conversation for us to be having. Um, yeah, you, you, I know you're very keen on how, um, the values and the visions that you work on, um, sort of sync in with the habits and behavior with what you offer people. We Want Profit First is like building habits and changing behaviors. Sometimes it's difficult for people to just pick up a bank account and change their habit and tell themselves, well, I'm going to allocate on Wednesday at 9 o'clock every week, and that's it. It's not quite as simple as that sometimes, is it, for everybody?

No, it's not. I mean, I've implemented Profit First into my business and it has been enlightening, eye-opening. But, you know, even as someone who, you know, do as I say, not as I do, you know, in terms of who walks beside people and facilitates, you know, creating those habits and those behaviors for themselves, you know, reducing and letting go of those limiting beliefs and creating new, much more positive ones. Yeah, even I struggled to begin with because of that, but it's getting into that rhythm, you know, and, and, and also understanding, um, and, and utilizing and using Profit First that's in alignment with their values, with their vision, and with their energy. I'm all about energy, um, I'm a Human Design, um, coach and guide, which is all about your energetic blueprint, and I work with people's energy very very deeply. Um, excuse me. Um, so it is all about looking— when you look through the lens of your values and, uh, and your energetic blueprint, um, then your vision can change, um, because it's aligned, it's an aligned vision. Um, and then to then use— to, um, then look through that lens when you look at your— at Profit First or how you run your cash and your accounts in your business in alignment with that, that feels right to you, those habits and behaviors become very easy to adopt and to implement.

It's, it's really interesting because when you think about it, a lot of business owners out there are struggling from a cash perspective, from a money perspective right now, especially everything going on in the world, etc., etc. It's all doom and gloom, isn't it? So it's enough to make your energy levels drop. And then to look at their finances, it can be a task that they will put off because they probably know what's going on. They probably know it's not great and it sucks the energy out of them. So they actually put off looking at that area, don't they? So yeah, things that you do would help overcome that.

It would, because again, it's that belief that clarity is key. And again, you know, when you know what you stand for, when you know what your values are, when you know your— how to use your energy in the best way, how to make decisions in the way that you're designed to make decisions, you know, that you get clarity. And it's the same for Profit First. What Profit First gives you is clarity. You know, that first Profit First assessment that, you know, that we do, you know, when we're training and then what we offer the clients, you know, it's like there's such clarity. And it might be not great news, you know, but wouldn't you know exactly where you are in this moment and what your business, where your business is standing right there? And also Because once you know where you are, you can then think about where you want to be. But if you don't know where you are, how can you have those goals? How can you have those visions? You know, for me, vision is the end game and the goals are those steps that you take to get there. So if you don't know where you are and where you're going to start from, what, what, what's the first goal? You know, what's that first step on that pathway that's going to lead you to that end game, that free— what do we all want? Freedom, freedom of choice. To do, be, have whatever we want. Can't do that, we don't know where we're starting from. So again, Align aligns really well with that values, vision, your energy, and then Profit First to give you that real, that's the financial clarity in order for you to carry on. They dovetail beautifully in really, and they're both, they're non-negotiables, I would say. You need to know where your cash is at in your business. You need to know where you are, yeah, but you also need to know what you stand for and what you want. Hand in hand, I think.

I couldn't agree more. The starting point is, from a Profit First perspective, the starting point is running the Profit Assessment, understanding where you're at right now, and then looking at your Blueprint to move forward and the journey you're going to follow. So that's the numbers side, that's the cash side. So With what you offer, do you— is values where you would start? Should we be starting it with understanding what our values are? And when we say values, are we talking in simple terms honesty and integrity, or should we go much deeper than that?

Much deeper is the short answer. Yeah, much deeper. So I would say two things that go hand in hand: understanding how to best use your energy You know, so when you use your energy the way you're designed to, and when you make decisions the way that you're designed to make decisions, then there is ease and flow. You know, when you're out of alignment with that, it really does feel like you're wading through treacle, that everything is really hard, you know, and you constantly asking yourself that, you know, why is this so hard? When you in alignment with your energy and you're using it in the right way for you personally, not because someone else has told you the right way, you know, what to do, um, then there is ease and flow and it is like freewheeling, you know, downhill, it really is. That with your values, and these are your core values, I always start with your core values, not your business values, because your business values can be different from your core values, but they come from you. So we need to know what you stand for, who you be, yeah, and when we talk about honesty and integrity, so I look at values, if we think about an umbrella, And, you know, and, and the umbrella is integrity. Yeah. And then underneath the umbrella is where our values, our personal values, hang. And when we stand underneath that umbrella, we are in integrity with our values. We are living those values. Everything that we do is through that lens. And when we are under, you know, we come from, from underneath the umbrella and we're getting soaked over, over there somewhere, we're out of integrity. But if we don't even know what our values are, it's very hard to really recognise when we're out of integrity with them and actually how we get back into integrity. So for me, integrity is, and this is a personal thing, for me integrity is not a value. Integrity is something that we all require in our business, in our lives, and our values hang beneath them. And I put love up there as well. You know, is love a value? I think, I'm not sure. Love, we all give and receive love. That's what, again, It's that higher purpose. What is it we're aiming for? You know, and again, you know, some people put joy as that, in that umbrella, above that umbrella, and then our values sit because that's what they're striving for. So it does go deeper. It is deep, and it's really what you stand for. And those values can also change through your life. Your energetic blueprint doesn't. Your blueprint is set from the moment that you're born. It's actually set 88 days before you're born, if we go into the science of it. But your values can change depending on on your evolution, depending on which version of you you're in at that time in life. So it's really good to revisit those values regularly and then look at those when, and then through that lens, when you look at your business values. They can be, mine are the same, my values are the same for my business and personally because I am my business, but for someone who runs a company where there are employees, you know, they might have different values. That they look for, that they look to uphold with their team, because their team will have their own values that may not be the same as the owner-manager's core values, but they dovetail beautifully into the business values. So it can go quite deep and quite complex. Hope I'm making sense.

No, no, no, honestly, it makes perfect sense. It really does. It's just interesting thinking about how it all works. And so, like, for instance, if you are running the business and you've got a team, would you be looking for people with similar values, or is there kind of a mix of values that work well together with other values, or how does that work?

Oh, that's an interesting one. I could certainly tell you about energies and how different types of energy work together, but values, I think it's, it is, it's quite subjective. I think that's what it boils down to. And I think what actually happens in real life is that most people don't really understand or know what their values are. And what they do is, you know, when you've gone on those one-day marketing courses, you know, where you're there and you're given a sheet of paper with these beautiful words on and you cherry-pick, what do you stand for? And you tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. There's no depth to that. It's like, oh, that sounds good. Oh, I like, I like, yeah, I stand for truth. I'll put that down. 'Oh, integrity. Yes, I'm sure I have a bit of that, so I'll tick that.' It's not really digging into what you stand for, and those values can be, they can be completely unsexy. You know, when I started to do this, and I regularly revisit my values, but when I was first, when I did my coaching and I was taught, you know, a particular way to really dig into somebody else's values and really extract that from them and do that exercise. My top value was safety. It's not very sexy, is it? You know, you know, but my top value was safety because we were in COVID. And, you know, and I wasn't quite— and I was employed at the time and I wasn't quite sure whether the business was actually going to survive, you know, plus globally. Is the, is like, you know, ah, is the human race going to survive? All of those things. So again, it can be circumstance and it can be, you know, this, the version of yourself at this time. Now safety doesn't factor anywhere in, and it doesn't mean that I am, you know, super risk taker. It's just that I, because I feel safe and secure in my being, my values are quite different. So I would say maybe not look, also, what is it you're looking for in your business? You know, you might be someone who is not a risk-taker, you know, so safety is, but you may need maybe a salesperson who is willing, you know, within the boundaries of your bit, to be a risk-taker, you know. You may have someone, you may be a risk-taker, but you need an operations manager who you want as a safety and security, you know, because at that point they may, they'll be able to to slow you down, you know. You— it's just so sometimes it's not similar, it's opposites. But, but if the energies are working well together, then it's a beautiful mix there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a fantastic answer, by the way. Thank you. But, you know, it's really good to explore these things because it has such a— it is in alignment with Profit First and Hope Copperfield's works, all these conversations we're having, which is why it's important to have this conversation, this environment on the, on the podcast. So we have to explore energy more because you've mentioned it.

Yes.

And did you say our energies are, are sorted out 88 days before we're born?

How does that work?

Yes, by the way. But yeah, how does that work?

So in human— so in Human Design— so Human Design is, um, the science of, of energy. It's how you— it's, it's the art of moving through life and responding and reacting and integrating with life, with society, with, you know, with the world effectively. It's made up of 4 modern— sorry, 4 ancient traditions and a modern science. So, and what happened— and it's based on how I and how many Human Design guides out there do this is they look at your date of birth your time of birth, and your place of birth. So it's linked very strongly to astrology. That is one of the ancient traditions. We also look at your chakras, we look at your— which is your energy centers. We look at I Ching, and we look at the Kabbalah, which is your Tree of Life. But then thrown in there is quantum physics. So we have a bit of that going on. So very modern, um, probably it's you know, some scientists will tell me it's not modern. It's just it's been like it's the buzz thing at the moment, you know, quantum leaps and all those sorts of things. So, so when you put that all together, it creates your Human Design chart and, and there is your design and then there is your personality and your design is effectively it's a— when it was discovered, when Human Design was discovered, The belief was that 88 days before you were born, your energy entered your body. Some people might call it a soul, whatever you want to say. So your energy enters your body, and then at the exact moment you were born, personality. Yeah, so those two. So the design, so design enters your body 88 days before, and then personal, and then the personality at the exact moment you were born. And then you put those two together and it creates your energetic blueprint. And it's, it's a bit of a rabbit hole because I discovered it again probably about 3 or 4 years ago, as in I was guided by somebody because I really, even though I'd done the values bit and the vision work, you know, I was, I was a trained NLP practitioner by then, a life coach. Things still didn't feel right. You know, I still didn't feel aligned, you know, all the time. And it was when I discovered Human Design that the sort of those missing pieces fell into place. So Human Design does tell you how to best use your energy and how to best make decisions. You know, are you, are you a sacral-led decision maker, which means you go with your gut? You know, like literally, if you hear, if somebody gives you an opportunity, does your body like lean forward like, yes, you know, or is it a, whoa, no, no, thank you, you know. And I know that obviously this is a podcast, so you can't see the actions that I'm doing. But Tim can, so he can see that I'm leaning in towards the camera and the microphone, and then I'm leaning back as a hard no. If you are an emotionally led decision maker, you need to sleep on it. You need to, because you might have that spark of, oh yes, that sounds really exciting, Tim. Of course I want to do this, you know, do that. But really, if you're emotionally led, that's an emotional spark. So you want to step back from that opportunity and ride the emotional wave until there is calm, emotional clarity at that point. The calm has gone, that spark has gone, but you still feel drawn. But it's very calm and peaceful. Yes, that's a fantastic idea, Tim Seymour Seymour Seymour. Let's do this, you know. So there, I mean, there are many different authorities within Human Design, but they're the two that are most easiest to explain. You know, it's very, you know, so and you need— yeah, when you make decisions, when you, when you make decisions led by that authority, it's amazing how many— it's right, they're aligned. So I can't even remember what the original question was, but there you go.

It's absolutely fine. And, and yes, this is a podcast, but we do put the video version out on YouTube. Some people will see, the ones listening won't, but yeah, so that's so, so the, the energy, so How does someone find out what type of energy blueprint they have? How do you work that out?

So there is plenty of websites out there. I have a particular piece of software because it's so like in-depth and it's so specific and there are layers to it. You know, I mean, you can go to— I mean, I'm 20 layers deep probably into Human Design and there's still stuff that is being discovered and that I don't know. But, you know, so there are definitely layers to it and it is a rabbit hole. However, you could just go on and type in Human Design, um, blueprint or Human Design type, and then you will come up with lots of free software that— I mean, the, um, the company that I subscribe to— am I allowed to say? Am I allowed to say?

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, go for it. So they're called Genetic Matrix, and they do offer a free— you can go in as a guest. I pay because I obviously, um, guide people with Human Design and I coach them in it, so I want to go much deeper, and so I subscribe to it. But you can go in as a freebie, as a guest, and just literally download your chart. It won't tell you anything about the chart. It will download the chart and it'll tell you what your type, your strategy, your authority, your profile is, what your, the theme of your life is, etc. But you might not know what any of those mean. So at that point you need to start doing a bit more research or dare I, because I obviously, you know, I want people to come to me, but you could just put it into ChatGPT. Um, he's not always accurate because I've tested him, um, but, but yeah, you could do that. So that's how you can learn. There are definitely plenty of free, um, websites out there. We can get a free chart and it'll give you the overview, the top view, and it's— and then, but then you have to go and interpret it. Yeah, yeah.

And, and so if you, if you, if someone does that and then they can't quite understand, they've talked to ChatGPT but still not really convinced, not really 100% certain, what would happen if they came to you? What would you— because you go deeper and I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You go deeper. So what would happen if they come to you? What would they say? What would—

so if they came to me and we were already gone through the whole discovery, what is it you're after? Oh, I want to know more about Human Design. Okay, let's go. It's usually a minimum of 2 sessions. Purely on Human Design. I do other programs that involve vision, values, a bit of energy clearing because there is a little bit of woo going on there as well in my life. Um, but, um, the Human Design aspect of it, we would go— we'd have 2 sessions where we go deep into the chart. So we, so we do an overview, your type, your strategy, authority, just I've said, your profile. But then we go into your body graph because when you get this chart, you've got this graph that these different shapes, they're squares or they're triangles, and some might be white and some might be colored in. And it's like, what does all of that mean? So the second session talks about the bodygraph and what actually those shapes are. It's the, it's your centers. So things like your heart, your solar plexus, your sacral. It might be looking at your— there's a splenic center, there's a head you know, which is like, you know, the downloads and the thoughts that you've got, your Ajna, which is how you process those thoughts, etc. And then, and so every one of those centers has a theme to it, an energetic theme. So we talk about that. So your first session is really very overview surface. And sometimes that's enough for someone to go, oh, okay. And it's not like flicking a switch either. So, and it's not like a box. It's not, okay, now I'm going to label you. I am an emotional generator with a 2/4 profile. Means nothing to anybody who doesn't know Human Design, but to me it's not the box that it's been, I've been put in. It's actually my permission slip. It's the, it's the aha. Okay. So that's why when I made this decision, I felt horrendous afterwards and it was totally the wrong thing. And oh, when I did this, oh, right. It suddenly, what it does is it enables you to make sense of your gut, your body. You know, you tune into your body a bit more, but the other thing it does is it's an experiment. Because we, at the age that we are, Tim Seymour, we've spent many, many years being conditioned. Yeah. You know, being conditioned, the shoulds and the beliefs that we hold and the habits and the behaviors. And some of those, many of those are going to be fantastic, brilliant, and naturally in alignment with our energy. But there's going to be those other beliefs and habits and behaviors that are not so great for our energy. And what we do once we understand our Human Design, it's about deconditioning. So it's not about reprogramming, which is subconscious mindset work. It's deconditioning. And if we think— I hope I'm getting this right because it's a bit sciencey and I'm all about the woo rather than the science. I believe it takes 7 years for every cell in your body to be replaced. So deconditioning your body can take up to 7 years. However, just by doing a few things, a few things with your Human Design, you can start living much more in alignment with your energy, you know, so you feel much more energized. You're not drained, you know, by people you're with or the, or the tasks that you're doing in your business. You understand them a lot better. So yeah, it's, um, it's fascinating, um, and, um, and As you can see, I could talk for hours on it. It is my passion.

Yeah, that's great. Your passion for it comes across really well, Sandra. And, you know, I think anyone listening, you know, if this is piquing your interest, it's definitely worth reaching out to Sandra, and we'll share the link to the website shortly. Um, we've also talked briefly about visions. Um, how do— so values, energy, and visions. I might have said that, you might correct me, but how does the vision fit into all of this that you help people with?

Well, again, when we, when we have like the end game, but we're, but we're not really sure about how we're using our energy, whether we're using it correctly, whether we're in alignment or out of alignment with it, when we don't really understand our values and whether we're in integrity with them or out of integrity with them, your vision may not be yours. It may not actually be in alignment with how you want to live your life, who you be. So when you know those and then you, then you tackle the vision, then you really dig deep into what it is you want. And, and, you know, then it's true. Yeah, it's yours. It becomes meaningful. It becomes, you, the desire for it really becomes is, you know, real. I say to clients, you know, it's like we're all bombarded with 10K months, 6-figure years, or 6-figure months. I come across someone who's talking about quantum leaps and 6-figure days. I'm like, what? You know, such a thing. But then when you actually ask somebody, what's the purpose of having a 10K month? What does that do for you? Most of the time it's a blank face. Because they just feel like that's, that's, that's what I have to do, that's what I should do to be successful in my business. But is there joy at that point? You know, and that's what really we strive for is joy. Yeah, because, you know, and freedom, whether that's emotional freedom, whether that is financial freedom, because what that does, it gives us choices. And again, What's Profit First all about? You know, choices. It's about, you know, if you are someone who thinks, well, um, you know, I don't, I don't know if I, um, I'm sorry, but, you know, having a business that makes all of this profit— I went into a business, um, just to like help the community and just to make sure I could live, you know, um, uh, you know, comfortably. And I feel like, oh, you know, like it's a bit, it's almost like, you know, dirty word, you know, sort of like making, um, whatever, whatever the figure is. But then when you put it to them and say, okay, these are your values. So if you have a successful company and you're making shedloads of profit, and Profit First has helped you get there because you can see the numbers. So rather than do the whole, you know, that whole tithe thing, you know, when, um, the whole 90% and then you give 10% to the church or what, you know, why don't you flip it and go, okay, well, I live quite comfortably and I'm not ambitious 'You know, I like to have a holiday and I like a nice car,' or, you know, 'I don't even need that,' you know, 'and I've got a comfortable home, so, but I want to give to the community.' You could do 90% of your profit to the community and keep 10% for yourself. And how would that— and that could be in total alignment with your values and your energy. But unless you know that, unless you can look through those lenses, your vision may not actually be yours.

And, and I think you've inadvertently come out with our Profit First Beyond the Book tip there, because actually profit can be a dirty word to some people, but actually, so repurposing profit to do the good in the community as opposed to just coming across as being greedy and grabbing it all for yourself, which doesn't—

absolutely, yeah.

View it. If someone's making a lot of profit and they don't need it and they repurpose it to do good in the community, how wonderful is that? So there's a, there's a beyond the book tip that you won't get from the book because it wouldn't be written about those kind of things.

And I'm, I'm, I totally believe in that, you know. My, the, you know, my, one of my visions, you know, part of the vision that I have, my end game, is to be in a position where I can actually gift, um, my knowledge to people, my guidance, my, you know, I talk about walking alongside people rather than I'm coaching them. You know, I walk alongside you on your— and again, I know it's overused— but on your journey, on your self-exploration. You know, I'm there to hold your hand, to give you a hug, and also give you a kick up the backside when you need it as well. You know, it's— yeah. And you know, for me, you know, I run retreats as well. I host retreats, I lead them. They're in this country, they're abroad. And what I really— I want to be in a position where I can actually gift one or two spaces on my retreats to people. Who the idea of it is just amazing and fantastic, but they're not in a place financially to be able to afford that yet. Yeah, but to be able to give them that and then show them what, you know, what they could have if, yeah, what they could have when they really, you know, understand who they are and then let themselves fly. And so, so yes, you know, mine isn't necessarily about giving away my profits to people. Mine is about being in a position where, and where I can give my time. I don't need to earn as much money because, you know, I'm comfortable. And Profit First helps me see that in real cash terms because I can absolutely see the profit pot rising. You know, I can see my expenses pot still having money at the end of it because I've done the work. I've, you know, yearly or six months, you have a, you know, after the first profit assessment, I look at my expenses, I look at my outgoings, What can be reduced? What can be changed? What can be, you know, what's essential, you know? So that constant review, um, and I, I do that, but I do that, but also because I'm prompted by somebody, not necessarily because, hey, I've read the book and I can do it myself. You know, that's the other thing, isn't it, Tim Seymour Seymour Seymour, is that we need someone to walk alongside us. I walk alongside you when it comes to your, comes to your, your energy, your you-est you. You know, you becoming the true version of you, dropping the masks, really understanding where your energy lies. For someone like, you know, yourself and your Profit First professionals and your mentors, they walk alongside you for Profit First and your business. That, you know, and, and, you know, so you've got them on, on the left and me on the right, you know, hand in hand, walking alongside you, ensuring that you personally and your business thrives. That's what it's all about, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, I totally agree. I mean, you know, when you were talking earlier about people being able to download their, their energy blueprint but not necessarily been able to interpret it properly, it's a bit like someone who's read the book and tries to run Profit First in their business. They go straight into the target allocation percentages because they don't know any better. Before you know it, they've tried a couple of weeks, they've run out, you know, they've gone on with money to pay their bills, they say it's not working, throw it out the window. And they just say, no, Profit First isn't for me. But actually, with someone holding their hand who's had the experience that we've had of working in Profit First in hundreds of businesses now, we can guide them through the process and help them.

Exactly.

The resistance and the obstacles that we all come up against, and it helps them then move forward to teach their clients in the same way. We've mentioned— so you mentioned your retreats. It was a question I was going to ask, but you've touched on it now anyway. What, what happens on the retreats? What, what would someone— if someone came on a retreat, what goes on?

Oh, it's a big secret. I can't reveal the secrets of that. No. Um, I'll give you overviews. I'll give you overviews. My retreats are all about— yeah, my, my retreats are all about energetic reset. Yeah, so it's a reset, it's a recharge, but it's also reconnection. Um, and again, not only with yourself, you know, that beautiful inner journey that, that, uh, and self-exploration, but also with like-minded people who feel like they're in the same exhausted hamster wheel sort of, you know, day by day, you know. So it's a reconnection not only with self but with community as well. And, you know, I, I, I love a long-haul trip. So, you know, I, I like my retreats to be in tropical hot places. So Bali is a beautiful environment for me, but not only because it's, it's, it's, it's tropical and it's a long way away and it's Bali, just sounds amazing. But the energy in Bali is off the charts. You know, the estate that I use is in the jungle. And if you think about, you know, just from a science point of view, you know, all those plants, they are, they are absorbing the CO2 and they are releasing oxygen. So, you know, I've never been to Bali and had jet lag. You know, it's, it's 17 hours on 2 planes. Yeah, it's not, it's not for the faint-hearted. You know, you've got to, you've got to be committed, you know, to go to Bali. But I've been there 3 times now, and I'm just planning my 4th. And And I've never suffered with jet lag. When I've got there, I have a good night's sleep and the next day, ping, I'm ready. Where either to receive, if I'm actually on a retreat or to actually lead one. And, um, and the same on the way back when I travel back, same thing. I have a good night's sleep when I get back to the UK, next day I'm fine. And it's not just because, you know, um, yeah, it isn't just because the retreat leader is amazing and, you know, it's, it is because of the energy. That's, that's actually in Bali. It's just such a magical place. So yes, that is my, my retreat of choice for sure. Um, but yeah, so it's energetic resets. We do lots of energetic work. We do breathwork. I can give that, those things away, you know. So I'm a breathwork practitioner. I'm actually a Reiki practitioner. So that's energetic healing. Um, um, I don't heal, you heal yourself, but I'm the channel. Um, so, you know, there's that. I do energy clearing. So there's, I do, um, I'm certified in something called the Energy Codes. There's coaching, one-to-one coaching, you know, some— and it just depends on the group of— it is women. I've been asked recently whether I would take men, and I sort of said, yes, you find me 3 guys who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, and I will do a mixed retreat, you know. Yep, yep. So I haven't— they haven't come back to me yet, but when they do, I'm more than happy to run one. But you know, we'll, we'll, the coaching is quite fluid. It's not like I have like a script or a structure and we go, today we're doing values and tomorrow we're going to look at your vision. What we do is we see what the group needs. You know, that's what it is, but it's, but it's a really, it's a lovely reset for anybody. The great thing about being so far away from the UK, this, I mean, I've done retreats in the, in the UK and you're, you know, the participants and myself can be very easily distracted. Because you've still got your phone, you're in the same time zone, um, and when you go somewhere that far away where they're 8 hours ahead in time, so when we're waking up you're still asleep and vice versa, um, it's great because then you really— I'm not one to say that's it, all electronics are banned, because I'm going to be the first one to get my phone out and take a photo of you all having a great time, you know, for my socials, um, so but I— what I want you to do is to be able to basically like quiet the noise, the noise of your life back home, and really step away and be cocooned in a really beautiful setting with a group of, of women or people, if it ever comes to being a mixed one, that really understand and can support you through those 6, 7, however many days it happens to be. And there's lots, there's excursions, um, you know, we do experiences that are going to support Um, you know, that the actual theme of the retreat, um, there's, um, there's the odd margarita or two because, um, the place I go to, the estate manager, Patu, um, he makes a mean margarita and a fantastic cosmopolitan actually, and quite a, quite a decent gin and tonic as well. Um, so it's not one of the— it's also my retreats are also not one of those ones where it's like my body is my temple, you know, sort of thing. It's like, feel you, you know, it's not like please please don't get drunk every night, but you know, by all means enjoy, enjoy the surroundings. Yeah, so, so yeah, it's quite— I've heard the word liberating by one of, one of the participants. It's quite liberating. Um, so yeah, there you go. That's the other— passionate about those as well, can tell.

Of course, of course. It's great, it's great. No, it's great to understand a bit more about it. Um, now I'm— I've got one more thing to, to, to ask you or to bring up Um, you mentioned before we came online that you saw one of my social media posts, um, where I was punching through a ceiling. Um, because for me, that post was about how I was stuck as an accountant and a bookkeeper doing compliance work, and I couldn't see— I felt like I'd hit a ceiling. I felt like I couldn't do any more work to earn any more money. I'd raised my price, and so I felt like it's ceiling. Then I started reading Profit First and I felt I'd found a way that I could actually break through that ceiling. So there was an AI-generated graphic, I'll be totally honest, it was a cartoony graphic. Um, I had a bit of fun making it, um, and the idea was that it would stand out. Um, obviously you saw it and it's great that you mentioned it before. So you did mention something about people breaking through ceilings and stuff before we came on. I don't know what you share, what, as much as or as little as you want to.

Yeah, so I, so again, so many of us live underneath what I call the invisible ceiling, um, and it's what keeps us stuck, but we're not quite sure what it is, you know. So we can— so nobody else can see it, but we feel it. We feel it deeply, you know, um, but we don't really know what makes it, what's created it, um, and, and we may even be a— know what is on the other side of that ceiling, but unfortunately you can't break through what you can't see. And that's the thing. Yeah. So it's about, for me, the, you know, we have this invisible ceiling and what, um, again, what working on, um, things like, I do an energetic audit, um, and which looks at 3 different pillars. It looks at your personal energy, it looks at your values, your visions, your mindset, your, your energetic sort of blueprint, and it looks at your, um, and it looks like the mindset is your last pillar. So values, visions, and your energetic blueprint, and then your mindset at the end. And the results of those, the scoring of those, gives you an indication of what that ceiling is made up of. So it then becomes visible. And once you know what is keeping you stuck on that hamster wheel, on that treadmill, whatever it is, then you could— then you can do something about it if you're ready. And what I have found is that some people are just not ready. Some people, when they discover what it is, they go, oh, that's but that's like a warm comfort blanket. Yeah, it's keeping them stuck, but actually they're not ready to let go of it yet because it's comforting. It's what they know. But at least they know what it is so that when they are ready to throw off that blanket and go, no, I'm ready to break through because I can, I really do, I really desire what's on the other side, then they, then, you know, then, then yeah, they know what they need to tackle. They know what they need to work on. So, so again, same, same sort of thing, you know, what the book gave for you was it it showed you what that ceiling was made of. Yeah, um, and it also possibly made it into a glass ceiling because you can see through it and see what's on the other side. How do we smash through it? What do we need to do to smash through it? You know, and, and we'll each have, um, our path, um, you know, our, um, our plan in how to do that, you know, what we need to do to do that. So yeah, so yeah, so, and I've just started running days sort of like mastermind days where that's what we do. We do an audit, we look at your Wheel of Life, there's a bit of magic in between, and, you know, and then what people walk away with is understanding their invisible ceiling. It's now visible, but also a possible pathway to actually breaking through it, smashing through it, and getting to the other side.

Yeah, I love that. I love that. And yeah, and not everybody's ready to go through the ceiling, but some people will be straight away, and some will perhaps come back and say, right, I'm ready to smash through it now. It just depends on where everybody's at in their own journey, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think the other side of it is that, is unfortunately, you know, a bit like, you know, if you've ever, if you've ever had a coach and they, they, um, and you're looking at your beliefs and your behaviors and all those things, yeah, and you know, you peel off that layer and you're like, I'm done, I'm ready, let's go. And then about a year later you're like, oh my goodness, I'm I'm pushing against, you know, another wall, or there's something that I can't get. Yeah, we are all onions, we are layers. And unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it— I'm a cup half full, so I'm like, fortunately, because it's exciting, it's a challenge— we're never done. There's always— yeah, because you— because we put limits on ourselves. Even when we smash through one limit, there'll be another one. You know, when we talk about money and we talk, and one of my, one of the codes that I do is called a money code, and it's about because we put upper limits on how much we feel we should receive. Yeah, you know, the conditioning there. So you'll get past one and there might be another limit a little bit further along, another layer to unpeel, another ceiling to break through. So again, it's always good, again, like your values, to revisit that, you know, to see is there something else now that's stopping me from from getting to my vision, to my end game? What do I need to do to smash through that one?

So yeah, yeah, makes perfect sense, Sandra. Thank you for sharing all that. I know I put you on the spot with a couple of questions. I apologize.

No, not at all.

Having the conversation and going through it. Um, if for anyone listening, if, if what you've heard from Sandra resonates with you, um, and you'd like to find out more, just pop on to Sandra's website, which is sandrawithers.co.uk.

Co.uk.

It's on the screen now for those watching on video. On the podcast, I'll read it out again: sandrawithers.co.uk. So I encourage you to, to take a look, reach out to Sandra if you want some more support in these areas. Um, highly recommended, syncs so beautifully with the whole habits, behavior, rhythm of money within the Profit First environment, um, that it really is recommended to put the two together as well. So I that would be an amazing, um, opportunity for people. If you're, um, an accountant, a bookkeeper, and you're interested in learning more about how Profit First can help you in your business, you can hop onto our Facebook group called the Profit First Pathway. Just pop onto Facebook, type in the Profit First Pathway, you'll see myself, you'll see Jason, and you'll see Deb waving at you. Um, so just, just hit the, hit the link, um, answer 2 or 3 very simple questions, and we'll let get you in and we can get you on some of our online sessions and start helping you and supporting you with your journey forward. And, and if you need then to speak to Sandra as well, we can hook you up with Sandra after. So, so Sandra, thank you so much for joining me. I've really enjoyed it. You're welcome. And we'll see you all soon. Thank you.

Brilliant. Thank you.

Thank you for joining us on our podcast today. Profit First Beyond the Book was brought to you by the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team. If you'd like to find out more about Profit First or becoming a Profit First Professional, head to our website profitfirstuk.co.uk.