3 Ways You Will DeRail Your Group: Expert Insights from Glain Roberts McCabe

Hello and welcome to Mastermind Mastery, the podcast for professionals who want to create and run successful peer advisory councils, or as we call them, PACs for short, or they're also known as peer groups or business mastermind groups. I'm your host, Tina Corner Stolz, founder of Elixir Council, where I've been in the industry running groups since 2005 and now help those like you with education, certification, and support wanting to do the same. At one time, I ran 10 groups, nearly 100 members, and sold my groups For a Good Multiple and recently released my second book, Your Seat at the Table: How to Create and Run Your Own Peer Advisory Councils, published by Forbes and grateful to you that it's an Amazon bestseller. I invite you to join each week where we share strategies and techniques to successfully launch and become a master of running your PACTs. You'll hear insights, perspectives, dos and don'ts, learn from my and my guests' mistakes, successes, and get the inside track to key takeaways. Each time we have a guest, we'll be having a bit of fun. So are you ready? Let's get going and dive into today's episode. So welcome everyone to another episode of Mastermind Mastery. I'm your host, Tina Corner Stolz, and today's episode topic is about ways that you're gonna find out how to derail your mastermind or peer coaching group, as we are gonna call it today. So you're going to learn the number one thing that causes group coaching programs to struggle. You're going to hear the most overlooked skill for group coaches, and then what to do when the chemistry is off. And we have a guest today that's going to talk about her experience with all of that. So I want to welcome Glyne Roberts McCabe. Glyne is from Toronto and the founder and the president of the Roundtable and the Group Coach Academy. So welcome, Glynn, to the show.

Thanks, Tina Corner Stolzl, for having me. Excited to be here.

Absolutely. So I know you do lots of different things and I love having you on the show today specifically to talk about this from your perspective, which is gonna help our audience and listeners, um, be even better at what they're currently doing. And the first thing is, can you describe a little bit about, you know, we were talking about before the show started, you love to talk about mastermind groups and peer group coaching. Is there a difference between the two, or is that the same?

I think there's similar elements. Like, I would say for the kind of work that we do. So we have a coaching company and our specialty is group coaching, but the roots of it are really in mastermind groups. So I think of a mastermind group as a place of like-minded people that get together, support each other, share ideas, help each other get better. And I had been in the leadership development space for a long time, and I thought, There was lots of those groups for CEOs and business owners, but there weren't any for middle management. So that's really what I created. So our company, The Roundtable, has taken really the mastermind concept and turned it into a group coaching approach that we now do with companies from PepsiCo to the Toronto International Film Festival and everything in between. So it's taking the roots of mastermind, though, in that philosophy of really helping and supporting each other, which is what I think of masterminds as being.

Definitely. And then, so the group coaching, just to dive just a little bit deeper before jumping on, um, for the audience, and with the coaching component, is there kind of some coaching that's done in that meeting that you have as well?

Yeah, absolutely. So I think for a lot of masterminds, depending on the format of mastermind that you're using, but if I think of most peer business masterminds that I've been a part of, we get to put an issue out on the table, people ask clarifying questions and then are able to experience share what they've had experience around that issue. And so in group coaching, I think the little spin that we put on it is that we're also working with leaders who need to become better coaches. I mean, coaching has just become kind of a backbone skill for any leader these days. So what we do in our process is we put a little bit more emphasis emphasis on the coaching component, and we coach those coaches while they are asking the clarifying questions. So we're really looking to them to ask really good, powerful coaching questions as well. And so they get feedback on their coaching as well as part of our process. And I think the other, the other question people will ask me all the time, so I'll sort of maybe go there quickly, is people say, well, Glynn, what's the difference between group coaching and team coaching? Because team coaching is becoming a really big, um, sort of space these days. To me, a group is— you are a group of individuals. So we, we run a program where it's individuals from 8 different companies that will come together. If we're doing it within a company, we will have 8 individuals from different functions. So we'll have somebody from marketing, somebody from sales, somebody from finance, etc., whereas a team is usually the head of marketing and their direct reports or the executive team, right? And so an intact team is a very different kind of group, um, a, a coaching approach that you need to take with that intact team versus a group of disparate people who are coming together, in our case, for the purpose of leadership development, or in the case of, you know, business masterminds that I'm a part of, usually our core purpose is to grow our business and, and navigate, you know, the ups and downs of being entrepreneurs. So, um, that's how I would also just add another definition there too.

Great clarification. And one thing that you said that I want to make sure I got right that I think is sort of brilliant is when you have the senior leaders, right, and they are in the position where they're coaching, right, their direct reports. And if I heard you right, does that mean while they— you're also teaching them how to do that better through them being in your group?

100%. So, you know, because now I think with a lot of mastermind groups, it's almost like there's no beginning and end. You know, the groups sort of keep rolling and, you know, people will move out and other people move in. With our programs, we're a little bit more programmatic, you know, so we'll have a year with these leaders together. And so it gives them all these opportunities to practice their coaching when they come together for the group sessions with us. We also give them some individual coaching. We're really helping them work on finessing their leadership approach. But what I, I always loved about the mastermind model was this idea of you learn from your peers. You are learning from people who have walked in similar shoes but maybe have had different experiences. And I think often in leadership training and development, it's often outsourced to experts. And yet there's so much expertise, right, that lives within leaders. You learn leadership by doing. And so that's what a group coaching program where you're bringing peers together to coach each other in organizations really allows you to do. They get to learn and hear from each other in terms of all the trials and tribulations of leading. Right? So it's great.

Exactly. Wonderful. So one of the things that we talked about for you to share your thoughts on is the number 1 thing that causes group coaching programs to struggle.

Yeah, I think whether we use the Retired Group Coaching Program or Mastermind, to me, I've been part of many, many groups. I've been part of lots of different mastermind peer groups and obviously been running them with our own company now for over 16 years. And there's many things that will cause the program to struggle, but I think the biggest one is lateness and absenteeism. Once you start getting into having people showing up late, missing meetings, not being there, that to me is the death knell on momentum in a group. I'd love to hear your experience. What have you found?

Oh, definitely. And it's also stressful for the facilitator or the moderator because you're like, well, shall I start or not? Then they're going to miss all this great info. And then I have to repeat it. And then whatever. And it just— right. And then it's disrespectful. I mean, it can go Right. It goes on and on. Do that.

It does. That one thing will really spiral. And I think it's kind of tied into— I know the other piece we were going to talk about was the skills that are really critical for people running masterminds or group coaching programs. But for me, that's where, as the coach, facilitator, whatever you label yourself, you really have to make sure you've got very strong group norms, ground rules, agreements, whatever you want to call them, and that you establish that and keep bringing your group back to that. Because once you start letting those norms start to go— like, we have one of our norms is on commitment, and what commitment means is being there on time, doing your homework, making sure that you show up, not missing meetings. Even if you're planning a vacation, work your vacation around when your meeting is. Very, very rigid about that. But our coaches have to uphold that, right? We can't— as soon as you start letting that slide, it sends the message. And I think you're exactly right. So disrespectful to the other people that were there in a group, right? And then it just sets off a chain reaction of other things within groups, right?

It does. It does. And speaking of that, do you have a technique or some words of wisdom for the listeners today on how to reel that back in when it happens? Because I know so many people feel uncomfortable addressing it because you feel like maybe, right, I don't want to reprimand. And how can I do this professionally in a positive way, all right, to get back on track?

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm a really big believer in ground rules or whatever you want to call them. Team agreement. Group agreements. And I think it's hard when you're streaming people in. You know, our programs tend to start and then they have a finish. But I'm in programs that are constantly streaming people in. And the mistake that I see the facilitators making that are running the groups that I'm a part of is that they don't go back to the ground rules. You know, and I know it might feel like it's a bit pedantic and it's a little bit boring, or gee, we've had people who've been in this group for 2 years. Sure. Surely we don't need to talk about the ground rules again. Yeah, you do. And you have to actually— I think the best ground rules are ones where the group has input. So when you can see that one of the ground rules is getting a little shaky, like commitment isn't there, people aren't showing up, table that for a group discussion. Do it as a second and bring the problem to the group. I think the other thing too is that it's really not up to us as facilitators to solve the group's problems all the time. Right.

I cannot underscore that enough. I want you to say that one more time for everybody.

It is not your job to solve your group's problems. It is not. We need to sort of be empowering the group, right? And I think one of the things that people that I think get in, who get into mastermind groups and running group programs, is I think there's a part of us that are big helpers. Like, we like to help people, and I always say to my clients, every strength has a corresponding liability. And that means probably you're taking too much ownership for things that are not yours to own. And, you know, the healthy dynamic of a group, yes, you have a part to play as a facilitator. But when it comes to solving issues, you know, breaks in confidentiality, and I've seen it all, you know, breaks in confidentiality, people not having their quote unquote homework done, people not showing up late, all of those types of things, friction, those sorts of things, your job is to bring it out to the group. But it's really the group who needs to be leaning in to solve the problem, right?

Absolutely. If that's the one takeaway anybody takes from this, it is that. Because they put it on themselves like it must be I need to solve this. And that's not the case. And I think, don't you— do you think that it's normal? Meaning groups, it's going to happen. It's just a matter of when.

100%. It's always going to happen. It's always going to happen. But I think if you're somebody who tends to be a little bit looser, like, I'm fairly loose in my style. I like to go with the flow. I like to sort of play within the rhythm of a session. But what I've learned over time is that there are certain structural pieces that you cannot be light on. Like, you know, and so really, like, our whole first session with the group, when we bring groups together, all we do is trust, trust building and talking about the, the ground rules and, and having people share their goals. That's all we do at the first session. There is no coaching. There's, there's nothing else. It's truly about getting that group really galvanized. And so I think if you're on a rolling intake, you want to almost think about, okay, how, how am I going— maybe it's once a quarter if you're rolling in people a lot, or it's a couple times a year, but you want to be really purposeful about when you go back to that structure just to recalibrate everybody around what's expected and what does it mean to be a member of this group.

Great points. Keeping it front and center, top of mind, right, for everyone. They don't forget. They go, oh, yeah, that's right.

Yeah. Yeah. Have it on the bottom of your meeting minutes or your agendas or whatever you use, right? Like, where can you weave it in so it's just constantly hitting people between the eyes?

Right. We're all human and you're just going to— sometimes we all need that back on the straight and narrow.

That's right. Yeah, absolutely.

So I know you talked a little bit about there's some challenges, you know, and that's one and how to make sure not to treat it lightly because it's a slippery slope. And there's something else that you mentioned that's near and dear to your heart. It's chemistry. And when the chemistry is off. So spend a little time on what does that mean? So what's chemistry mean and what does it look like if it's off? And then we can talk about what to do.

Yeah. So I think sometimes you'll see in a group, and depending on the size of your group, our groups are fairly small, so there's 8 people. So if you have one person that just isn't fitting for whatever reason, and fitting can look like a variety of things, maybe they're really a terrible listener and they just talk and talk and talk talk and they hog all the air all the time. It could be around tardiness, not doing their homework. It could be things like that that start to— you can see it's bothering other people in the group. And I think that for me is when there's something, somebody else is out of step with the rest of the group. I think also as a coach, we all have our own biases and the way we like things to be. And so we can also not really enjoy certain people in our groups as much as we enjoy other people, right? So I think sometimes you've got to figure out, is this me and I need to just sort of figure out this person because they're just kind of rubbing me the wrong way, or is it actually affecting the group? And I think one of the things that we do in our programs that allows us to just get things nipped in the bud before they get too out of control is to do pulse checks. With the group, you know, so to do a quick pulse check, what's working about the group, what's not working, and what, what would help the group, you know, maintain momentum or would be, you know, uh, improve the experience for you. And we do that anonymously, but what we'll do is we'll kind of compile those results. And then again, going back to our earlier conversation, Tina, we don't fix it. We take it back to the group and we say, here everybody, so here's what's working, here's what's not, and here are some ideas to fix. And often when the person who is the outlier especially if it's like hygiene issues, like showing up a bit late or, you know, those kinds of things, they'll see that in the feedback. And it's very interesting. I find the peer pressure— I'm a big fan of the positive power of peer pressure. Often that will self-regulate and people will get back on track, has been my experience. But sometimes you just have somebody who is not the right fit. And I think that's when you have to decide a couple of things. If you're in a program like mine where maybe you've only got a couple of sessions left and it's not worth addressing. This is a corporate program. You don't want to kick somebody out because it's going to not be great for them, their career, da da da da. Can you ride it out? I think that's a legitimate option. I think you can decide, assuming that the pulse check thing, you've done the pulse check and the group's given the feedback. If it's still not working, then I think you need to have a one-to-one with the individual to kind of talk to them about, how they're feeling. Maybe they feel that it's— we have actually a situation that just happened to us recently in here where somebody was a little bit more senior than the rest of the group. They weren't really a peer. They were a few steps ahead career-wise, maturity-wise. And they went for 3 sessions and the coach could see that they were working really hard, but it wasn't really fitting. And so we just had a chat with that person and decided to roll it over into some individual coaching and then transition them into another group when a group that's a better fit for them becomes available. So I think sometimes you have to get creative. If you're running multiple masterminds, you might have some opportunity to move people within. And then I also think too, like, I always think an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, right? And so sometimes we have to track, go back into our process and go, Hmm, do I need some better qualifying questions? Did I maybe take somebody into this program that, you know, in my gut I knew it wasn't going to be the right fit? Do I need a better application process? Do I need a better screening process? And certainly we've learned that over the years with our program. And so having an application, having a screening conversation with a coach often moves people out before they come in. So those are a few ideas. I think the final idea that I have for dealing with that is sometimes in a high-risk situation, I had done one situation where somebody broke confidentiality and it really threw off the group and we had a group discussion about it and they were able to work it through as a group. Now that's where your skills as a coach facilitator, you have to have strong facilitation skills to run these kinds of groups because on a dime you need to be able to deal with a conflict situation, know how to help a group resolve conflict if that's the case, and not ignore it. Yeah, you can't. I mean, I think part of being a group coach, which is very different than being an individual coach, is that with a group coach, you are managing all the energy and all the dynamics in the room. It is a very complex coaching job. And so you need to be multi-skilled. And it's not just about the one-to-one. It's about the experience of the many that are in the room with you.

Absolutely. It's not easy and exhausting when you're done because of that. Right?

It is if you're having to work harder than the group. I had one of my colleagues just had to run a group with some high, highly introverted people, and she was pulling out all the tools in the toolkit to try to get that energy going. But then again, this is where judgment comes in. I sat in on their graduation, and she had been saying to me how she'd found them, she just worried about them not really getting much out of the program, but they all were raving. They loved it. And it's just, she's just more extroverted. So she was like, gosh, I'm working so hard to get everybody engaged. But for them, they still, it worked for them. The whole thing worked. So you never know, right? Is it you or is it actually an issue in the group?

Absolutely. Well, so here we are towards the end, and I, I want to give the opportunity for the listeners to hear, um, one piece of advice that you would share with them. And it could be anything about what we talked about today or something completely different. So from all your experience and wisdom, what would you share?

Yeah, I think if you're putting together, whether you call it a mastermind group or a group coaching program, The one thing that I would say, I'm, I really feel like you have to define what's your main objective with a group. So often people, I think, try and be everything to everybody. And yet truly, to make a group experience work well, I feel like the group has to have a strong core, flexible edges, but a strong core. So whether we're all here to build our business or we're all here to improve our leadership, or we're all here to, you know, learn how to be a better parent whatever, whatever your goal is, you've got that strong core that galvanizes everybody. And then around the edges, you can, you can have space for individual interests. I think that's what's so tricky about groups is that we're trying to have a collective experience, and yet you've got, you know, individuals who have their own agenda. So know what your main focus is with the, with whatever group program you're designing. And, and then you can have fun around the edges, but know your core.

Great advice because it also helps you select the right ideal member for the group because of that. And many ways will probably help prevent a lot of the challenges that were shared today.

Right? Absolutely. Yeah.

So, Glyne, as we come to a close, how can any one of our listeners get in contact with you if they'd like to learn more? Ask you a question, whatever that might look like.

Yeah, for sure. So our main website is goroundtable.com. The company is The Roundtable, but our website is goroundtable.com, and you can learn more about the programs and services we have. We also have the Group Coach Academy, which is thegroupcoachacademy.com. We'll say that is currently under construction, but we're coming back. We're relaunching that later this year so people can check that out. And yeah, I'm always happy to chat about coaching, group coaching, and even and team coaching. I love all of the coaching spaces.

Yeah. And I appreciate you joining today and sharing all of this with the audience and just a chance to, to chat with you about such a, a great topic in regards to, you know, overcoming some of the challenges while you're running groups. And as we close out, thank you so much for your time and joining us. And again, to all the audience for spending time with us today and for the rest of the week. Go make it happen, and we will talk to you next Tuesday. Hey, moderators of peer groups, thank you for listening to today's episode. To get access to show notes and exclusive content and resources, go to TinaCornerStolz.com or www.alexcounsel.com, where you can also become part of our our online exclusive community. Attend our Academy where there are over 13 modules of how to create and run a successful peer advisory group, mastermind group, as well as free resources, white papers, checklists, and more. And you can even contact me there as well. If this episode resonates with you and you know someone who can also benefit from listening, please share share with them by taking a screenshot or post it on your social media. I also love reviews and appreciate hearing from all of you, all of you who are doing this wonderful work of running peer groups. Please tune in next week for the next episode of Mastermind Mastery, and I will close by sharing something my mentor did after every learning moment with someone he connected with. He reached into his pocket and he shared a shiny pebble with anyone he passed knowledge to and asked them to forward that pebble knowledge on. Now I encourage you to pass on a pebble, the takeaways you learned today, to either your existing groups or fellow peers. Now go make it happen.