Episode 28 Unlocking the Future: Rethinking Access Control Lee Odess

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What if access control isn't just about doors, cards, or credentials, but about how we define trust in this modern world? Welcome to Executive Checkpoint, where security professionals explore people, systems, and ideas shaping the future of physical and cybersecurity. I'm your host, Tino Urbina, and today we're joined by Lee Odes, CEO of the Access Control Collective. Advisor, innovator, and one of the most thoughtful voices reimagining what security environments can be. From physical locks to digital identity, from community building to industry transformation, Lee's work challenges us to think bigger and reimagine the why access control is important. Lee, welcome to the show. So glad that we connected. We have an international connection here. The first time I saw you in person, we were in Mexico City.

Yes, sir. No, thank you for having me. This is great, and I appreciate the sort of opportunity to do these. So happy to do it. So thank you.

Well, everybody knows you from one point of the industry or another, so— but it's important for us to start from the beginning. So your involvement in physical security was long before platforms and, you know, communication and, you know, even were even buzzwords. So what drew you to the industry? How you ended up in the security industry?

Yeah, you know, just like a lot of people, this industry, I was just with my team, we were talking about it. It's like, it's an industry you fall into. It's like, it's not necessarily an industry you pursue. Now, there are some people, but majority, you know, I do a lot of these talks and I'll ask, like, who purposely got into the industry? Like, no hands go up, right? So same story on my end. I was an AV integrator in the DC area. And I ended up selling that business and getting out of it and wanted to get back into manufacturing. But I lived in the DC area here, and manufacturing's not necessarily a big, you know, thing that we do. It's not a big industry in DC there. But the guy that I used to do security with said, hey, there's this company, you should check it out, called Brevo.

Mm-hmm.

And I met Steve Ventil early on, and we talked, and he brought me on to do a bunch of different roles. So that brought me into it based off the fact that I wanted to get back on the manufacturing side. And being in the area, just so happened the person I've been talking to about sort of— he was like, think of him as my board of directors in a lot of ways, this guy Miles Fawcett. He and I would talk a lot about business and he made the introduction. I loved the culture. It reminded me of— I came from the lighting control industry originally. It reminded me a lot about it, so where it was at the time, where it's going. And I wanted to stay in the area and I needed a job. So I, uh, I went and, uh, joined.

Nice. Was there a moment you figured the industry needed to evolve, not just in tools but also, you know, the mindset? Yeah, yeah.

I think that's the, the, the essence of— if I was to look at sort of, you know, I look at all the different stops of my career and, and they're kind of all tethered together, sort of chasing some of the same stuff, but like they've all built upon themselves. Lutron Electronics, where I started, was all about innovating around, uh, you know, an old technology being switches. So it was sort of in the essence of the sort of the mind that you work there was always about evolution and innovation. Then when I got into the security industry, I would say, yeah, Brevo was like instilled that. Did I lose you?

No, I can see. Okay. All right.

That's right. So the Brevo side, I happened to work because it was early cloud-based, right? So it was a lot of change and new, and a lot of the conversations we were having about were about innovation and evolution. Then I moved to— we had a labs division there where I was allowed to explore since we had APIs and things like that, the ideas and the concepts around the art of the possible within security, what else it could do. So it just, it like is— I saw that as a lane. And then, you know, that sort of has carried through to where I'm currently at today because I've always sort of been working on the possible around R as a selling function of the utility of what it does. And I've gravitated towards that. I also would say my appetite outside of work, of the things I read and I get involved in, have been always around that type of point of view. And so I just applied that point of view into an industry like this.

Seems to me that you have this mentality where your mind goes in the intersection of hardware, software, and human behavior.

Yeah.

So how do you navigate that path essentially when the industry is still sometimes so heavy in the hardware side?

Yeah, so first of all, I don't— I think the hardware side is great. I think it's a It's an advantage if you allow it to be. So I look at it as a positive that other industries don't have. Now, we sometimes are apologetic about it because we overutilize it, or people start to self-identify as that's the core, when you can make an argument that it is this sort of Venn diagram that shifts based off of the use case or the buyer and what they need and sort of the value proposition of where you fit within that. So I look at it from a balance. About a year and a half to 2 years ago, I made a determination that I'm done trying to convince a bunch of people of the inevitable, uh, today that is happening, not the future. So I look at the evolution of how I've communicated this out. 2 years ago, a year and a half, I said I'm done convincing people because there's enough crazy people doing the crazy things that I'm talking about. And so I know it's there. I'm gonna go speak to those people and then also speak to the people that want to come over maybe and create a community or a spot where they can come and have those conversations and not be told how, why it's not gonna work or how they've done it before. And, you know, all of the things that people that are threatened usually by change would start to go do. And then, you know, that evolved into this idea that it's like, oh, you know what? Like, I always find it interesting about our industry. I said this yesterday, actually, to somebody, and it rings true. For an industry that at the core value of what we do— would you agree, Tino? Like, a core value of what we do is protecting people, right?

Centered to people, right?

Oh yeah. But we don't care about those people.

Like, is this going to be a hassle? Sorry, security, right?

Or to get to know them. Like, we, we, we look at them as like bits within the system. Should you be there or not be there? Yeah, no, you know, green, go. Data that comes through, it's not about the experience. Like, the way security works in a lot of ways, if you boil it down to simple terms, I know it's more complicated than this, but it's like, you know, we're about barriers and bad experiences to keep people out or to create friction because you really want to get in, you get in. But like, we're going to create friction enough that you either give up Or I have time to make sure that, you know, I could send somebody there to make sure you can't get in there or put up other barriers to make it hard. Like, we're about bad user experience as a value proposition, and that's shifting now to where it's like, hey, I can deliver convenience and security at the same time, and actually probably better security and better convenience and user experience. So like, the human side of it, uh, from an experience standpoint is equally important as well as The decision-making that happens in our industry, we like to believe it's all technical, but it boils down to majority of it's about people and the decisions and where they're at, where they live, where they want to be part, you know, the demographics of where they're at in their career, what they're incentivized to go do, what they have passion around. A lot of the decisions with the culture of where they come from, like that's the part of like if you travel, you know, certain brands, you're always like, man, they make decisions. Like, forever. It takes forever. And you're like, oh, when you go visit them, you're like, oh, culturally, this is like how they make decisions. Like, so it's not a negative. It's a positive of how they do things. And you can fight it, or it is what it is. Like, so there's a human side that we don't like to talk about.

Right. And, you know, at one point, I think you referenced in one of your presentations the use of mobile devices and how well they've incorporated technology and safety. Because let's start with the why and who we serve versus all the— our end result is protection, yes, but without thinking about the person that we're—

Yeah, again, mobile card and phone. Like, that's like what we did. We took a— we showed progress off of a platform that we had before, which is cards. We put it into a phone. It unlocks the door. We celebrate that we, you know, know, innovated. Well, yes, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm purposely trying to create friction by the way I'm communicating it.

Sure.

Because it's a, it's a desire to implore capturing the added value that frankly is a space that we as an industry, we give up space that we can command to people. Because if I'm an application that does tenant engagement, my core value is convenience and information and the ability to order a latte out of my app, right? Like, so that's like user experience. But if I don't feel safe in a building and I'm not safe, I don't give a— I don't care how good your lattes are. I'm not going there.

Right.

So that's our space. But all these other people that see the utility of what we do seated in a lot of places are saying, you know what, I can extract value out of that that utility that's there, and I'm going to create a company around it. And then I'm going to render those people that's installing hardware and doing some levels of configuration, and they seem to be happy just doing that, as a cottage industry. And I believe we have a mainstream market opportunity that is the utility plus of us delivering safety and security to people.

Right.

You could do direct lines of places that are safe and feel safe to GDP. Like, I mean, there's so much that we deliver and do a damn good job of doing when we can extract more value out of it if we got off our heels and on our toes.

Yeah. And you know what, you define the next evolution of security from a financial standpoint of view, which to me I love because it incentivizes people to think, what am I missing, right? You talk about a $10 billion existing market and probably is going to be there, you know, the legacy and the this is the way we used to do things, versus the $60 to $100 billion. You know, in my perspective, and I love this book, and it's been influential through my entire professional career, Blue Ocean Strategies.

Oh, yeah.

Where, you know, you're defining the potential of companies and not only are we going to do something that is unique from the security standpoint of view, but it's so different than even our competitors would recommend And you're starting to see a few companies starting to do that. What's your definition on— maybe if you want to use brands, that's fine by me, but who's running on those 2 lanes that are going to be— will be a good example?

Yeah, so I've broken this down into 3 parts of companies. There is the, what I call legacy companies that are serving that $10 billion security, high security typically market. that grows 5 to 8% a year. Great business. Like, there's nothing wrong with it.

Sure.

In addition to that, you have companies I'm calling transformative— I'm sorry, transforming, which are these ones bolt-on, more or less, that are bolting on technology to that incumbent. I'm calling them incumbent, not legacy. Differentiation of language there. The incumbents are the ones that recognize that I have strengthen what I've been doing for X amount of years. I'm now going to add on cloud, AI, mobile. I'm going to add these things on like features. I can argue whether I like that or not, but that's— at least they're doing something and they're going after the $60 billion. Then you have the native companies that are cloud native, AI native, mobile native, native user experience native, and they're creating solutions That either, you know, take from the legacy in some of the incumbent, add to it, or they see a, just an additional added value of that delta between, uh, the $10 billion business and the $60 billion or $70 billion. So that $60 billion diff— that $60 billion difference is, yeah, 8% growth. But even more what it is, it's the operational efficiencies, value creation that you deliver on top of it, or revenue generation opportunities by being seated in that section. And there are organizations that are definitely doing it. Now you're starting to see it. So where's it showing up? If they're new ones, I'll talk about transform. Number one, software-driven, pure software players that sit on top of the legacy hardware that are middleware in a lot of ways. that deliver solutions to the customer that may be what things we called PSIMs before that never stuck, but they're like tying systems together. You got identity companies sitting on top. You got megatechs coming in and doing mobile credentials and seeing that our industry is a feature of their larger value proposition is a good thing because it's sticky. I can do a lot more to it. You even have organizations coming in and looking at it from a smart building standpoint. You've got companies coming in from GSOCs that are looking at the access control portion or video portion or whatever as data points to help with operations and higher levels of security. So you've got all of these companies coming into it currently now that are frankly the definition of a lot of them are platforms. Now, From an intercom point of view, if you were to talk about that specifically, the organizations that I see excelling in that see the intercom not as a communication tool, but as a digital interface to an analog industry.

Right.

It's about rich user experiences. It's about adding on features and functions that a black reader on the wall can't do, right? Because there's no interaction with it. It's a neutral party, if you would, or an everything thing for a building. It's almost like giving the building a voice.

Right. You know what, it's a solution on connecting, you know, 97% of most projects that include cameras and access control, right? Communication as an essential tool and as a Efficiency, return of investment, right? Because you can manage a larger operation with fewer guards if you use good communication that is congruent with the entire ecosystem. But to your point, in the new technology, in the new economy with the $100 billion solutions, who's running the race ahead of everybody else?

Do you want names specifically?

Or generally speaking, you're talking about purely cloud solutions?

I think no, not purely cloud. I think the quicker we get to communicating hybrid, the better. And I actually think it's about on-site, cloud only, and a combination hybrid. Because that's ultimately— I don't understand why our industry is pitching architectures as though they're features because we haven't had them before. If we were to take the Men in Black stick and erase our brains from like, and we're to say, ooh, new industry, I kind of understand that just like Men in Black, you kind of still understood stuff, but the application of it, you would never be like, we're a cloud-based system. No, you would be talking about the value that you deliver. And what you would do on that point is it would be the ability to do solution-based selling and applying the technology for the use case and what the customer wants. And they have choice at that point for what best fits them. This whole onsite versus cloud war thing that goes on with us is only because we haven't had it. And it's a dumb conversation, in my opinion, because it doesn't add value downstream. What adds value downstream is for us to say, in my opinion, is for us to say, We are a solu— we, we deliver you a utility in the configuration of what you want to deliver as much value that you need from out of our systems. And if we can't, we're opened up enough to be able to be integrated into other systems that can deliver what you need. What would you like?

Right.

That's how I think those are the companies. Now, yes, they, they have features architectures that allow for this to happen, like cloud, which then brings APIs, different business models, the need for different types of skill sets like networking capabilities, whatever, right? Like it delivers a lot. Just like mobile. If you don't understand user experience and you bring in mobile, well, shame on you because it's all of a sudden I have a new user that has this thing that is dynamic. I believe intercom industry is a user experience industry that happens to use a modality that is far richer, which is a communication to what has historically been an offline building structure, whatever it might be. And also the ability, I think, something that our industry is— so I look at 2 things.

Okay.

I look at intercoms the same way that our industry looked at visitor management systems. It was always an afterthought, kind of like cool thing, maybe used for compliance, whatever. But like, if we're being real, it was a sell-through product through primarily distribution, which is the PACS systems, the physical access control.

Right.

If we're being real, someone had to see value in it. It was sold through them. It was integrated. Like, it wasn't its own standalone thing. Now, so it was the same thing for visitor management. Then COVID happens, and our industry's need turned away from keeping bad people out only to now everybody's a visitor and I need to let the right people in. So in order to do that, I need far richer experiences. That's why health attestation forms all of a sudden came here. So the lobby of a building that I work in, I no longer can just go to because I'm not allowed. I have to do something here and create an experience for that building in order for me to have permission to go in. Same thing with visitor management. Same thing with, I believe, intercom. And the next, I think, area that everyone needs to start talking about Is notifications.

Right.

Because now we're a data industry that's being applied, frankly, or an enterprise software with data into security. The ability for me to deliver rich information when I need it, where I need it, in a way I want it, is gonna differentiate the laggards of our industry to the innovators and leaders. Because the companies that can deliver this user experience that is delivering great value to all of the different people that are the, you know, the personas that are there, those are the people, or the people that feed it to somebody who can do it. Those people and those companies are gonna accelerate greater than the ones that are saying, nah, that's just not how we do it. And you're like, why? We're like, well, I've got a, you know, I got a roadmap here of requests, like 200 long from things that people need to add on and notifications. We send you a text. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, let's talk about certification, right? Because that's the next part of the cultural experience, right? So certifications and instructor development life cycles are often seen as technical checkboxes. How do you see them shaping culture and trust in an organization?

Well, I mean, I think it, again, if these spaces that we spend all of our time in or with, right? Need to have a soul to them too and need to be able to communicate and build relationship back to the human side of all of this stuff, right? Like, you know, when there's an emergency that happens, I, I like, it's, it's important that the space is able to communicate to me, like, don't come in, or if you are in, go hide, or whatever, whatever the rules and whatever it has to be that is there, right? False alarm, like all that stuff. Like, it's all important as well as the secondary users. Like if You know, my kids are at school and there's no merge. Like, I, it's just, it's like we have such an opportunity as an industry to drive such deeper, rich, engaged, and important where we can extract more value out of it, or frankly defend our footing. Because if we don't, there's so much capital coming into our industry currently right now that if we don't do it, we being the incumbent side of our industry, somebody's gonna do it and they will extract the value. It's called a value arbitrage.

Right.

They will arbitrage that value right to themselves. And with all due respect, they're not gonna wait for our roadmap to deliver what they need. They're not. I've been talking about it lately about wood and arrowheads. And I've got a brief that I'm writing coming out around this about one of the companies in our industry who has been for a long time collecting wood The arrows, right? And they are now building arrowheads, and the arrowheads being innovation, and the wood being getting rid of the old wood that doesn't work anymore, fortifying the old wood that still is relevant, and then building arrowheads on top of it to go into the marketplace to be able to compete. That— those people that are doing that are the ones that are going to be delivering. And I think notifications is an arrowhead and some wood that a lot of organizations have an opportunity to go do, but not a lot of people are spending time on it.

Yeah. And then from the professional side, what advice do you give some of the people in the industry navigating this shift, especially those, you know, from more traditional physical security background?

Yeah, I mean, outside of, you know, taking a look at the tribe that you're a part of and seeing if you need to maybe extend into other ones to have conversations, there are places and areas to go to have these conversations where you don't feel like you're an outsider, like even if you're curious. So like having higher levels of curiosity to go do that, really taking a look at some of your old truths that you have and saying, are they relevant? If some old truths are probably not relevant, like our industry is slow to adopt, like that's a defensive, like that's where the feature has turned into a bug of our industry. So like Getting rid of that, but like taking an old truth, like our value is delivering safety and security to people. Great. Bring that. And then introducing new truths on that side. So like, take a look at who you're surrounding yourself with, taking a look at where you go and have conversations, getting your value set of what you have and making sure that where you're working, what you're doing, and all that stuff is aligned to it. I would say leveraging also some tools like LinkedIn and social media and places like that to meet people, to learn, to communicate, get out of the echo chamber of yesterday. Notice I haven't said anything about technical stuff.

Right. Interesting enough that you use a word often enough that sticks in my mind, reimagine the industry. It's not just adding to it. There's some need to keep some of the legacy because 100%. Industry, but it's the reimagining how we're going to do things. And every time I think of that word, Netflix comes to mind. Yep, it's a great case where you take an industry— if Netflix would have believed that they were like Blockbuster in the industry of providing physical elements like CDs or tapes, that they would still be doing that and we'd still be getting our movies on disc versus They were entertainment industry. They saw themselves as such, and what is the shortest distance for us to provide service to our customer-centric, customer-centric? And now you have probably the largest entertainment company in the world, production technology. I think that correlates well with where we're going as an industry, right?

Yeah.

And the mindset that needs to change in the sense that we're not changing it, we're not adding to it, we need to reimagine it.

Yeah, so the only tweak I would make to what you said is like, if it wasn't— I, I truly believe we still would have that. It wouldn't be Netflix that did it. Somebody would have come in and done it, right? Like, so—

13, right?

Yeah, so it's, it's reimagining in action, because if you don't, somebody's going to, right? And our opportunity is that we have an area of a utility that is like part of like a right in a lot of places, like safety and security, right? Like there's a fundamental right to have that. And now let's build off of it. There's no one better to do that than us, but we have to want to and have an imagination and not bring on this self, like, you know, 'cause it's, 'cause it could challenge the worth, the worth that we believe, right? The things that put food on our tables, that take care of our families and ourselves.

Right.

is the fundamentals of what we've known for the past 30 or 70 years, however long you've been in the industry. But that doesn't mean that this new stuff is all net negative. It's, it's net negative if you don't do anything about it.

But understand it, right?

Or under— yeah, but that's doing, in my opinion, being curious and wanting to go learn is doing something, right? Like, and that's why I, I say like the first step is being curious about it enough to say, you know what, I probably need to evolve this because if I don't, it's going to run me over probably.

Right. Looking forward, looking into the future a little bit, fast forward 5 years, what will define the most trusted security platform in the industry, you think?

What would define the most trusted 5 years from now? I believe one that can communicate their value in a way that is modern. So marketing and branding, I think, and I'm talking my own book here, but I Again, I vote with my feet and time and energy. I think the ability for brands and people to have communication to the marketplace are gonna value even more, especially as how discovery has changed. And the reason why I bring it up is historically most manufacturers have left it to the integrator to take that last mile to drive it or wait for a trade show in order for them to have it.

Right.

Now though, discovery happens like, you know, online, peer groups, direct from manufacturers, doing business development, having conversations. Like, so that skill set of being able to communicate properly is going to be ever more important. So like, you know, if companies don't have CMOs, you're already late. And not just CMOs so they make product cut sheets, but like CMOs, like ones that know what that is. Like, go hire the talent to go, to go do that. I think that matters. I think the organizations that are, that will Well, you know, it's funny. I think it depends on where you're at. So like, I believe locksmiths are gonna have increased value because of the skill sets that they deliver in the analog world, like coring a door and how to go do that. So I think the ones from a locksmith that start to become more electronic-centric, as well as understanding the core disciplines of locking, of door side of things, are gonna be ever more important. I think the integrators that don't do locksmithing either acquire that skill in or start to develop themselves into more like enterprise software companies. So maybe they're certified in Salesforce, in HubSpot, in Cisco, as well as security. So like a true systems integrator, not a security integrator, not somebody that just knows how to do cameras and the rest of it from a security, but a systems integrator that understands going beyond security. That's going to be important. So manufacturers that have recurring revenue, that go deep into verticals, and software is a core discipline, it's not a feature of their hardware, they're going to do— and that know how to communicate. Rep agencies that I believe actually do more services inside of the marketplace and are supplementing and leveraging the locality and relationships that they have. Same thing like distributors. Distributors that are taking a look at not just hardware of moving boxes, but our understanding of back office, uh, services to the integrators. Like, it's a fundamental— associations that see this about community more than they see it about, I don't know, membership fees, right? Um, like, there's— so there's a lot— like, it's a fundamental shift of our industry going from a cottage industry to mainstream, and everybody is going to participate in this.

Yeah, you know, to your, to your point, I think the failure of some organizations is telling this the right story that makes people move, even, you know, creates a why we should use a given product or a given platform. And having a good storyteller in promoting that. Like you said, a great CMO is going to be key. Well, let me ask you about convergence of access, video, and AI and policy, right? Okay. What are the— what will be a productive way to implement that and not just be busy?

Yeah, so this is where I talk about we have an industry that's like, active and right, not productive in some cases. And some people are that way, right? So, what's a good way to do it? I think a good way of doing it is to have a clear point of view of what you believe the future is going to look like and build towards that right now versus iterating off of yesterday and thinking that the last 30 years are going to define what the next 30 years look like. So, having some pretty clear point of view. Like, I ask companies when they, you know, we start to have a conversation, I'll say, are you a $10 billion mindset or a $100 billion mindset? If this is about iterating what you need to go do, sure, add mobile. Like, just add it, no problem. But if you're looking at $100 billion, different conversation to go do that. So having clear point of views as an industry would be number one. Then number two is I would have what your core discipline of what you deliver that you're not going to ever give up. So if your access control is your core discipline, you're not going to give that up. But, you know, then you also offer some of those skills, but then you or features, like, or, you know, you can offer video, but you also are set up in a way to bring best in class to where you partner. Because realistically, the way things are moving, the way things are buying, the changes here that are happening, realistically, just like we have been, but even I think quicker, harder, faster, is gonna be this, I want this, I want that, I want this, I want that, to create a solution that is brought into the marketplace Uh, you know, not necessarily based off of the company you've done an integration with, but the ability that you open yourself up enough to be integrated to by probably a third party or some sort of system that brings those things together. It's a completely different business model than a, you know, 6-month process to get blessed to be able to integrate with your product.

You're right. And, you know, creating those platforms to have those conversations on a professional level, which brings me to, you know, one of the things that you're doing is having these conversations at an international level, leadership, you know, key individuals in the industry. What has been the best result you've seen out of those engagements from your organization?

From— repeat that. So I want to make sure I answer properly.

Sure. So being that you've— you're leading this revolution, let's call it, in the industry, and you have conversations internationally with different leaders, what has been the result of those meetings of those leaders in that sector?

Yeah, okay, got it. Sorry. First off is that there's commonalities directionally of where people believe things are going, not not a uniform sort of method, but like a common, like, okay, things are gonna evolve maybe at different paces, maybe at different ways, but an evolution. There's some— there's no better time to be in our industry now, and there's a great upside opportunity for those that want to. So like, that's one of the takeaways of, you know, I would say reconfirming some things that people have beliefs in, introducing some new things that are there no matter if you're in Turkey you're in Singapore, you're in Brazil, or you're in Seattle. Like, there's commonalities across that, so you can feel good about it. I think there's a recognition also that there needs to be a capital infusion not seen before in our industry to take advantage and capitalize on it.

Right.

And so that's why you're starting to see consolidation, the PEs come in, Um, people opening up, uh, some of the money that they've been collecting, uh, over the time and, and applying it to things, or maybe stop doing certain things to go put those resources towards it because they see an opportunity on that end. That, that's a— that is a, a, a big one that I believe is, is unlocked. What sort of— some of the stuff that you're seeing in the market is happening currently now, right, on that end. Um, I would then also believe that there's a Introduction and a recognition around talent that we've always kind of said and understood, but like purposeful intent to uplevel current talent, move some talent out of the way because the— maybe the expertise that they had that was of value at that moment in time is less valuable moving forward. And it's time to let some somebody else move into those roles. And then the ability to aggressively bring new talent into the marketplace. I'm seeing that happen. And you're starting to see from a leadership standpoint, a recognition and new talent being brought in to sit in leadership roles. Because in some respects, with some companies, and this is not taking anything away from them, for the past 20 years, it's been a pretty good market, bullish.

Right.

Where I needed to manage more than lead. Now there's a need to lead more than manage. And so you're— there are people who are making changes and bringing leadership roles and manager— yeah, leader roles in where managers were before. It's just an evolution of where they've been. Yeah. So I would say that's some, some— the last one I'll tell you too, there's a recognition that there's a need, something has to happen around education and training that's not happening currently now. I don't have the answer for it. I've got some ideas around it. I know there's areas that I can help and do. But there's definitely a recognition that some of the certifications, training, education, the way we do it, to what they are, to the expectation of like, how do we, you know, if Google can take all their and do education and I can get certified in certain things in 2-week sprints, you can't tell me, you know, I can't. Or some Stanford puts all of their courses online and you can go learn and go do that. Like, it's just things have changed. So like, we should probably too. And there's a recognition that, that, that has— that that's a need.

Right now, Lee, thinking back when you start your career, what will be the advice that you will give to yourself at that point that might, might be of use to the younger crowd listening to the podcast? Yeah.

Yeah. I wish I would've really focused on what my true values were beyond like wanting money, uh, wanting recognition, things like that early in my career. I think I, I really wish I would've spent a little bit more time to really understand what drives me. And then I would say like, don't give a shit as much. Sorry, Scoot.

Yeah.

About what people say and think about you. Like, just go do, like, don't, Don't worry about that. I worried about that way too much early in my career. The last one I would say is, um, the, the con— I wouldn't conform. I tried to conform. I had a, a terrible boss that once told me that, you know, I needed to stop chasing these yellow bouncy balls.

Okay.

And instead of figuring out how to harness the fact that me chasing bouncing balls is as beneficial and important as the person who eats the same sandwich every single day for lunch. Like, both of us add value, and I, I, I need to stop being the guy that was trying to figure out how do I become the guy that eats the same sandwich every single day and embrace the, the, the, the appetite that I have for going after opportunities that I, I see. So like, that would be probably, you know, that. And I would say go find a really good partner. Uh, and, and things like it. I've been— I've, I've benefited from having a great wife in my, in my life to help me be able to, and, you know, give me the opportunities to go do these types of things, to have a partner that way. And then I've had a really good business partner, uh, and to be able to, uh, do the business side together versus on my own, like finding that person. Um, both your personal life and your work life. And some people mix the two of them together. I— they're separate. My wife Jen is my wife and Hillary is my business partner. And we, we've, uh, you know, work well sort of as a team when it comes to that. Like, that, that would be my advice.

Nice. Great advice. And by the way, this has been a pleasure to have you on the podcast. I think we can do this for, you know, an hour long.

Yeah, it's one of my problems.

Yeah. Hey, perfect. Um, So if someone wants to get in touch with you, Lee, uh, professionally and personally, you know, to maybe expand on the conversation, where can they find you? What's the best, easiest way to find you?

Yeah, LinkedIn. You can go to LinkedIn, um, comment on something or reach out. My messages there are kind of a hot mess just because a lot of that come through there. You can email me at lee@leodes.com. Uh, that's a way. If, uh, if you're at events, come on, walk up, Let's have a conversation. But email or send a note through LinkedIn and we can connect.

Awesome. And you have an event coming up and—

Yeah, super stoked. It's called—

Little plug there, right?

Little plug. I appreciate you doing that. It's called ACS LATAM. It is— we're taking our flagship Access Control Summit that we call it ACS that we've done in DC, Zurich, and we did in San Sebastian. We're doing it regionally here with Google in partnership. HID and Asa Abloy sponsored it, and it's really a Latin American focus, the entire region. The speakers are from Latin America. We've focused heavily to make sure that 90% of them are from there talking about the today forward of that region. We've got, you know, great reception. We've really paid attention to the stage, the look, the feel. and bringing that community. It's also gonna be omnichannel, so we're gonna record it. So it'll be in-person, great networking, but then we'll also bring the content out to market. But I'm super excited to be in Brazil doing that. My first time there, so I'm excited to do it. And I appreciate you being there as well.

I'm looking forward to it. So Lee, this was a masterclass not only in technology, ethics, and leadership. We appreciate your time with us. And for our audience, stay informed and stay secure, and we'll see you in the next Check Point. Thank you, Lee. Thank you, sir.