Eps 12 Storytelling Secrets: How Top Security Brands Win with Digital Content

Welcome to Executive Checkpoint, where security professionals gather insights to navigate the dynamic and ever-evolving world of physical and cybersecurity. I'm your host, Tino Urbina, and today we have the privilege of speaking with Sia. Yes, I'm gonna mispronounce your last name, so Sia, I, I'm gonna ask you to do it for me here in a second. She's a digital content strategist, podcast producer, and brand storyteller. And the founder of Brilliant Beam Media, Sia is helping professionals and brands craft a compelling narrative to resonate with their audience. With a background spanning corporate leadership, digital engagement, and podcasting, Sia believes that everyone has a story to tell strategically, simply, and brilliantly. Today we explore how Storytelling plays a critical role in building trust, strengthening security awareness, and shaping brand identity in the security industry. So we're excited to dive in with Tia. Tia, welcome to the show. Thank you for joining us. There you are. And so, how are you?

Hello, hello, and welcome to— I guess, wait, welcome? I'm so used to hosting. Thank you for having me, Tino. It's been like forever and a day.

That is— this is so interesting. Just as a reference, Sia and I known each other for a few years. We used to be part of a literature group, business literature group. It was a great experience and we, you know, built some affinity for what, you know, professionally we do and whatnot. And then we became quick friends. And I'll say openly that Sia is the reason I started the podcast. She's been telling me, Tino, just do it, just do it, just do it. And finally, you You know, uh, and to preface our earlier conversation, just a second, I guess. Yeah, uh, one of the reasons I struggle starting— I think a lot of people struggle with that starting point— is I, I like to do things a certain way. Now, I won't say perfect, but I like certain things to run properly, right?

Oh yeah.

Now, of all shows that things can go wrong today, I couldn't get the software to work, couldn't get the microphone to work. About 2 minutes ago, Sia goes, you know what, let's just go live. Right?

Let's just go live. Hey, just real quick, where are we going live? Because I want to make sure we promote and make sure everyone knows where to go to find us.

LinkedIn, under our page on LinkedIn. Okay, Executive Checkpoint, and in YouTube.

Okay.

Was one that is giving him some hiccups today. So, but, you know, so there you go. Thank you so much for being in the show. And do me a favor, pronounce your last name. I, I know you told me many times before, it's just one of those things.

Yeah, no, it's Yasso Tornrat. It's spelled phonetically, so if you just like just break it up into pieces, it's easier. Yeah, no, it's funny, my dad, um, It used to be spelled— when he first came over to the United States from Thailand, uh, he had it, uh, written down as Yaso T-H-O-R-N because, you know, Thailand, T-H-A-I. So he assumed it'd be— that's how you pronounce it. But over time, people just kept saying Yaso Thornrat, Yaso Thornrat, and he's like, oh my God, I hate that, I hate it. So he actually legally changed the name to Yaso Thornrat. I hope he legally changed it because that's what I've been going by. But yeah, isn't that funny? Isn't that a funny story? I was like, oh my gosh, that's funny.

That's great. But, you know, aside, I mean, your, your story, I mean, your family background, what, what's your journey from, you know, obviously coming from an immigrant family to corporate America and of course moving from that to digital content strategist? So that's a, that's a big journey.

It is. You know, it's really funny that, um, so I've told this story before, but 100% credit goes to my, my dad. He came over as Uh, a Mike, you know, an immigrant in the late '50s, and he settled in Oregon and was a strawberry picker in the fields because that's the first, you know, the first gig that you can get. He didn't speak English. He wasn't educated. He had, I think, up to 6th grade, um, education. Uh, well, he had up to formally 6th grade education, and then he GED'd it as he got older, whatever the GED equivalent is in Thailand. And then he came over and Well, let's just say the '50s were a different time versus now. Okay, so how he fiddled his way— he got into Oregon State University and ended up getting his bachelor's and master's, um, as, uh, working in the fields and then going to school at night or whatever. It's just an amazing story, and he's just been such a spark for me to know that it doesn't matter where you start in life, right? It doesn't matter what you think you want in life. Right? It's what you— the opportunities that are given to you and taking advantage of it and kind of moving on. And that's how I went from, uh, being a, uh, student out in Orange County, California, working at Disneyland. Okay, I worked at the Disneyland Hotel, loved life a little too much. I spent almost 6 years there and didn't graduate college. And I was like, yeah, some— someone needs to graduate college eventually. You can't be on a 10-year plan, you know what I'm saying? And, uh, so I Said, fine, I, I'm, I'm, I'm moving away from Disney. It was easy money, but it obviously wasn't a career, at least for me. And then moved up to the northern, uh, Northern California, finished my college degree, and then started, funny enough, working in IT recruiting. That was the first gig I can get out of college, which was the— I won't say worst job, but if you're going to learn how to get thick skin, everyone, I recommend either work in the food service industry and learn thick skin, become an IT recruiter. Because talk about getting your, you know, am I— when I say IT recruiter, outside IT recruiter, not in the, in the company, but an outside IT recruiter. Because you learn people don't like you and they think of you as a nuisance and you get hung up on all the time, right? So, and then because I had such low self-esteem by then, a buddy of mine recruited me to a cybersecurity, uh, company. And I'm sure people know it, SonicWall.

And, uh, Yeah, they—

I jokingly say I had no self-esteem. But truthfully, finding your purpose, and I totally got into the world of cybersecurity, actually boosted my ego and self-worth. And I got right up, I just got swallowed in. So, and that's just—

Did you still nibble in the IT cyber side of things? Or— well, obviously not, because you're focused on the storytelling and podcasting.

But Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so I spent the next, uh, 20-odd years in sales, tech sales. So I worked at SonicWall, and then I switched over to working at Hewlett-Packard, Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. And so, um, spent about 10 years there. And then after I left HP though— HPE now— I realized, wait a second, I had no self-identity of who I was. I didn't know what I was. My friends were like, what are you gonna do now? Because I took a package, uh, my role was eliminated and I had the opportunity to find another job if I wanted to in the company. I was like, you know what, Pot's right, I'm good. I, I lost the passion for tech sales. And so then I messed around for about a year and a half traveling the world because you know how life is when you're like on the go extreme, right? I never took vacations in 8 years. Like, I, I never took a vacation. So when As opposed to like, okay, enjoy your trip. I went on like 5 trips. So a year and a half I was not home. And then I realized— Yeah. Well, then you have, this is where friendships matter, where my friend was like, hey, champagne tastes on zero budget. You're going to need to start working again soon. And that's actually, I couldn't figure out what I wanted to do. And so I was like, you know what? We've been talking about doing a podcast for years, but I wanted to keep my pulse in tech. So, uh, we launched a podcast called Innovation Calling, which was highlighting startups for the purpose of either promoting them, highlighting them, introducing them to other corporate entities for the opportunity to get them, you know, acquisition, collaboration, or, you know, money, right?

Right.

So that went well until the— and then pandemic happened. Um, but we found out very quickly, and I'm gonna finish off right here, which is this: You're good. Start this podcast, but you can only have so many CIOs in your closet, right? Like, you can't have that. So we looked for a podcast studio, and that's actually what started my adventure into, uh, podcast, you know, creation. Um, and then it evolved into just being a podcast studio to— wait a minute, there's a lot more strategic help and support we can do. And then it evolved into the company that I'm with today, which is my company called Brilliant Bee Media, and we do More than anything, more strategic consulting. And then we do a lot of production for digital, uh, digital content and social media for B2B.

I see.

So I know it's a mouthful, I know.

And you know what, it— I, I realized that your background now producing podcasts, right?

Yes. And you—

it's giving you an insight on into a lot of different businesses, but One of the reasons I was curious to hear your opinion, because coming from the sales and the tech side and also, you know, understanding communication and storytelling, I feel like sometimes because it's highly technical, sometimes we miss the way to communicate from a security standpoint of view to the general public, right? Non-professionals in the security industry.

100%.

How do you feel Storytelling. Let's start with storytelling and then we can talk a little bit, you know, podcasting. But storytelling, how does that impact or how do you feel understanding storytelling will impact someone in security trying to get their message across?

Well, let me ask you a question. Sure. When you listen to music, like what's your favorite type of music?

Ooh, I like a lot of music.

What's the first one that pops in your head?

When I'm cooking, right? I love to cook. So when I'm cooking, I'll put bossa nova. You know, kind of gets me in the mood. Little wine, a little bossa nova, right? Right.

Oh, I'm already dancing with you, right? And what— and that's the whole thing I just did right there, right? Like, what is it? What is about bossa nova? You're just like, hey, you know, like, you know, and it's because you felt some kind of emotional connection, right? And isn't that what the heart of storytelling is? Is telling a story, but in a way where your audience connects with you and says, I want to be taken along this journey with you. I want to be in that kitchen with you, Tino, dancing little bossa nova, having a little sippy sippy. I wish this was wine, but it's coffee. You know what I mean? Like, have someone close their eyes where they can smell, like, and you're activating all the 5 senses, right? Smell, hear, you can You can touch, you know, or taste the deliciousness of your cooking. And whoa, I'm already there. Next time, hey, next time I'm in Houston, you're cooking for me because I don't cook.

So I told my friends, come on down, we'll do it. But, you know, I think part of the reason in security it's hard for people to give a story is because they're being technical, right? They feel like if they go on that ride, they might lose credibility or trust. And I just disagree. I think it's the opposite. You gain credibility and trust if you can be relatable.

That— okay, so let's, let's talk about this, because when you're telling a story, right, even if it's just you and me chatting it up right now of how we met, right, as a third-party person listening in, the reason why we would tell that story to a third-party person is because they probably asked us, how did you meet, right? Like, that was their goal question, is how did you, like, answer that question. And so what I encourage my clients to understand is You have to answer a question, not tell like shout at them of oh my gosh, look what this you know new new new software platform does for you. Oh, we can optimize your environment and keep you secure with zero trust and zero day blah blah. No one gives a crap about that. What they do care about that what they do care about is let us tell you a story where we saved a billion dollar. ransomware attack.

Yeah.

Okay, and then, then, okay, no, no, granted, it's a sensational headline. People, you need a hook, right? Look at all your favorite books, look at all your favorite songs. There's always like a hook in the beginning. There's a reason why Americans love singing choruses, because that's the hook to a song, right? So as technology wants to convey a message of the importance of their technology, what's the relevance? What's the value? And my personal favorite, I always ask marketing, you know, agencies and departments, which is, by the way, I augment those groups. I always have to say, why do I give a damn? What you're telling me, why should I give a damn about what you're trying to tell me, right? And sometimes you have to, and don't get it wrong, I love you product marketing guys, gals, folks. But sometimes you get a little too much into your product. You love your product a little too much, right?

And it's like, okay, so that kind of links into my next question. So what are— what do you feel are the most common or the biggest mistakes brands make when they're telling their story? You mentioned one, I guess that will be one very specific one, telling— talking too much about the product and not the solution.

Okay, let me hear my next one. Okay, have you ever been networking and you're at a cocktail, or maybe it's a coffee meeting, whatever, whatever it is, and you go from like high top to high top, you're just kind of chilling, you're walking around and you're navigating your way through a sea of humanoids? Like, you know, they're— some are talking, some are just listening, some are lost. Yeah, I love my lost— I love my lost friends. If you're ever lost at a networking event, like, look for me, I'll talk your ear off. No, but But, but when you walk up to a table or a high top and you see people conversing and you notice it's one person talking about themselves— hey, what do you guys do? Oh yeah, well, hey, I'm in real estate and I want— are you guys looking to sell anything? Hey, when's the last time you bought property? Oh my gosh, did you hear about the real estate? Oh my— did you— with interest rates going down, I think now's the opportunity. Hey, have you considered it? Have you saved money? Have you put money?

Okay.

How does that make you feel, talking and walking up and hearing that person?

Uh, like a walking, talking, uh, Saturday or Sunday, uh, promotion for used car salesmen, right?

Right. And there's that, and then there's, oh my gosh, my, my spouse didn't cook me dinner on my birthday. Oh yeah, oh, you You you did XYZ. Oh yeah, let me tell you about what happened with me. And um yeah. Oh yeah, no, that's great. Well, how are you today? Okay, great. Well, I'm having a great day today, and it's all about them. Companies have that same problem. Stop talking about yourself. Start talking about what your target audience is. What is it that they want? No one gives a crap of you know Brilliant B Media. Brilliant B Media does this. Brilliant B does who? No one cares. They just want to know how do you make them look good? How do you solve a problem, right? This is like it's almost like communication one on one. We gotta listen and not talk about yourself. So that's number two. Companies need to stop talking about their brand first. They need to talk about the situation that they fit in. Um, that's probably something companies can't seem to get past because they lead with. But it's our brand. It's our we got to put our brand out. You don't need to put your logo on every single piece of social media content. Interesting. I know that's probably a hard pill to swallow though for many.

Yeah, I think they have all those rules, right? So there's been an evolution in, in, you know, over the years and how storytelling or marketing, you know, we want to put, put it in the corporate context. But how do you feel it has evolved and where are we today when it comes to You know, storytelling through marketing for brands and, you know, in context for security groups, you know, use their own creative. You mentioned just remove your logo or your brand to be the first thing people see, right? But how do you feel it has evolved and where are we today with storytelling and marketing?

So again, with storytelling, make me give a damn. Right? Do I give a damn about what you do or who you are? Whatever. Do I feel anything with you? So my suggestion to that is know what is your pulse points of your audience, right? So here's something that I don't— I mean, I talk about this all the time and my friends are like, oh my God, see, you can't get out of it. But there's a truth to the statement of each generation has a very specific way they want to get marketed to, a very specific way they want to be spoken to.

Mm-hmm.

Right? Not spoken at, spoken to or spoken with, right? Is really what you want, a conversation.

Definitely.

And what we're seeing is a shift away from you want this to, hey, here's why you would want this. Here's why this makes you feel good, right? Millennials are very— and they're the ones that really pushed it more than Gen X, even though I'm a little selfish. But the millennials really did push that work-life balance. Okay, they really said, we're leaving, we're gonna go on the road and be a digital nomad, and they popularized it. Now, technology did have a lot to do with that, that you can be remote and work. But the biggest thing though is people are saying— the employees now, the, the workforce is saying, we want to have the ability to still do our job but still live a life. Companies need to understand in that messaging that you are fulfilling that mission. You're helping them propel that goal, which is to say, yeah, we work because we have to work, right? But at the same time, we don't sacrifice our souls in that process.

Yeah.

So have your mission be very clear that there is an impact, there is a human impact, whatever that is, however your company decides what that is, and lean into it. So let's just say, for example, Uh, let me think of a brand that does a really good job of helping people see— oh gosh, there's so many that pop up in my head here, but like Nike. Okay, this is an old reference. Nike did a great job in their ad campaign of Just Do It, right? But if you look at their social media, they sell that story of the lifestyle of an active person, and maybe they do that wish at the very end, but in general their ads are more focused on the messaging of, hey, if you're active and you're just doing it, you're accomplishing things. Here's the great things about it, right? And that's where, again, technology struggles a little bit, which I think is so bizarre because as today in 20— I don't want to like date ourselves because I want this podcast to be evergreen, but let's just put it this way. Technology is in every part. It's ubiquitous. It's in every part of our life. then why aren't these technology companies leveraging that, right? I'm fidgeting with my headset because it keeps popping out of my ear, but guess what? I can listen to the world. Tell me the story of what I can hear by using this, right? Close your eyes and imagine a movie unfolding, and then that's their— that's how you want to get the sentiment of your, you know, if you're an earbud company, you know, to get people to listen is that you can immerse yourself, right? I think technology can do that. Maybe lean into some of the, you know, Hollywood sensationalism, maybe to get the hook, but pull it back.

Interesting. Well, you know, if you think— and then I was going to ask about a good example on that. And I think telling a story is going to be the key for a lot of us in security to tell a compelling story. And, you know, we also appeal to a little, uh, 2 different groups, right? You appeal to the end user and you appeal to the business side of that end user. You know, they got to justify the cost of, you know, acquiring your product. They might not, but nonetheless, it's still going to be focused on the story and the value that the solution is going to bring versus just tell me about the widget, right? How it operates. Yeah.

If I may, if you brought up a point, can I just challenge you on one statement right there?

Sure.

Yes, yes, we're marketing, um, from a technology perspective. You're right, there's 2 different, uh, audiences. Is it for consumer consumption or is it B2B consumption? Because you're gonna find the next CIO, CISO, etc., it's on LinkedIn, for example, right? We're a LinkedIn audience. But here's where I would challenge you: are we not all humans? So even when we're thinking of a B2B positioning, right, we're trying to cater to business professional. Are they not human consumers anyway? And so let me challenge you, and this is what I did, and I will give a shout out because I just finished a live stream, um, with one of my shows, if you don't mind, is Technophile Real Talk. It's sponsored by Check Point Software. Okay. And I gotta tell you, if anyone knows Check Point, you know, it's a, it's an international company. But when I pitched the idea of this show, I gotta tell you, they looked at me with like, are you insane? Which, by the way, you know, Tino, you know me, I get that look often.

But it works.

But here's where— but here's where it resonated with them, which is no one in technology wants to hear about technology all day long, right? Like, you need a break. We need a break. You can't be like, you know, all work and no play makes, you know, us all crazy people. So So when I had pitched them and said, hey, look, we're going to be talking about technology, it's going to be, you know, cybersecurity, it's adjacent. Um, this is— your audience is going to be there because it's in their world, but they don't want to be thinking too literally. So why don't we have them thinking about your brand as you sponsor, but in an entertaining way of— they all watch movies and they all sit back with friends going, did you see that latest movie? And what That was unrealistic, or man, that was right spot on. And you know, it's that, it's that water cooler talk, right?

Oh, that's fun.

Yeah. That ability to say, I wanna be part of that conversation. I wanna do XYZ with this thing. And oh wait, Check Point is sponsoring. That's cool. And that's how the connection is. And that's how you can connect to your target audience without pushing ads on them.

Yeah, that's a great point. And you know what, it is— I said that thinking on— you're right, a little bit of the, on the audience, but internally myself, even with our podcast, this is what I branded as a thought leader series, meaning not exactly related to security, but building into the knowledge that you want to have if you're a security professional, right?

Mm-hmm.

Like, here soon, you know, Vince, Vince Potente should be coming to the show.

Oh, I hate it.

Yeah. You know, Olympian, incredible story. Anyone wanna hear from him? But especially I feel like security, sometimes we get so nudged into just the standards and product and this and that, that this might be the portion where we enrich the community of professionals, right? And that includes you today, you know, kind of bringing us back to say, yeah, we, we ultimately technology is for humans. Right? And the connection I think is, uh, sometimes unrelated to specifically the brand. It's just, look, uh, you, I'm sure you hear me say this, but, um, the biggest product that you sell ultimately, if you're in the business of business development or sales or your own company, is yourself first. You're the, the biggest product you sell, right? People buy from people they trust and like, or do business with people that they trust and like. So. Yeah, I think that's compelling. What, what do you see as the, you know, future content creation and brand storytelling? What, what's coming up?

Oh gosh. Okay. Many, many, many corporate entities embrace personal branding of your employees and staff. So they are your biggest assets and they are your biggest tool to help show the humanity of your company, of your brand. Right now, granted, I get it. Okay, legal, I'm hearing legal yelling at me going, oh my God, or marketing and comms going, oh my God. Okay, trust your people because you know why? They're going to develop their own personal brand anyway. This is a, this is a social media day age, guys.

Yeah.

This is not going away. So if you still have, and I will call it out, archaic policies that you don't let your, your employees create their personal brand with the strength of your brand, and they're gonna— as long as they speak highly of it, obviously, right? Now, there is such thing as slander and libel, so everyone that's a budding content creator, be aware you cannot slam, you know, things. But, but that being said is this: embrace your people. They are going to be your biggest advertising cheerleaders. And, uh, because as they create their personal brand, it fosters a community So why not leverage it? So 100%, you guys lean into that, lean into your people, um, because they're going to do it anyway. That's, that's a big, big, big thing for me. Secondly, remember, social media is not ads. I can't tell you how many times people were like, well, we do webinars and we put it out as a podcast. I'm like, whoa, okay. Anyone that's anything knows a podcast is not a webinar. is purpose-built for either lead gen, for getting a— some kind of call to action out there. Podcasts is to build awareness and establish the credibility and build community. Those are 2 different purposes. The medium might be the same. And can— do you mind if I say this? Please, for the love of God, do not treat Zoom calls like a podcast. So if you're on a podcast appearance, Do not treat it like a Zoom call, meaning get decent equipment, get decent audio, get just decent, uh, webcam. It doesn't cost a lot, you guys. You can get something decent for under $100. Okay, Zoom calls, you can be in pajamas, you can have the images up your nose, I don't care. But for, for, for podcasts and live streams, pay attention to how you will look. I see too many images where like I'm looking up their nose, or, or, or the other day I had to Produce a podcast and I was like really not loving it. We're literally by the end, it was like this. The dude's, the dude's face was like a talking head. Like, I'm like, be aware, be aware of the framing, peoples. So, um, yes. So, so yes, you made me, you made me squirrel myself. So that would be my second advice is, you know, look, Create your content intentionally, but understand there's a different purpose for every piece of content you make. You can still push your webinar out to YouTube, for example. You can promote it as you would promote any other long-form content, but don't call it something what it isn't.

Right.

Yeah.

And the focus is, it goes back to engaging conversation, right, of any kind. And, you know, like I say, have a purpose. I do have one question, and this is something we always touch base on in, in this show for different reasons, but technology, we always talk about technology and AI. How is that gonna impact content creation, which already has, I mean, we've seen many different things, but from your perspective as a professional in the industry, how is AI gonna impact storytelling and content creation?

Okay. AI, like anything. It's a tool. It's a tool. It's a tool. It's a tool either for, you know, a personal usage or professional corporate usage. It's a tool. I have the saying growing up, I used to, for some of my mentees, and I used to mentor, you know, whatever assets that you have, lean, lean on it, right? Because it's an advantage, but don't rely on it. And so this would apply with AI. AI is a wonderful tool if you need operational efficiency. I use AI tools every day in production and in my own business. And, you know, for my clients that, you know, let's just say are challenged with their messaging, it's very helpful to start something off to inspire you, to evoke something that's like, wait, that's great. That's a great point I would never have made. Thank you, AI. But let me put it into my own words. Let me articulate it in a language that's human speak and not AI speak. For those that use AI and they just go, I'm just gonna automate and I'm just gonna have it automate everything and I'm just gonna have it create things. Okay, that's great, but understand that's reflecting on your brand. So now, unless you are a brand that focuses on AI-generated content, right, um, I would be— I would caution— I would caution you on overusing it. Time and place, like everything in life. Time and place. Like, oh, I don't know, growing up, see, I don't drink too much alcohol. You got to moderate, moderate your AI usage, right, peoples? That's all, right?

That's great. Well, so, tool, I like, I like that. It's a, it's a great resource, right? I think, uh, if used properly, it's, it's, you know, it's gonna save you time and your processes and whatnot. So someone's starting You know, if you think in terms of, as a final thought, you know, advice to someone looking to elevate their storytelling skills, what would it be? What do you suggest they need to be doing to elevate those skills if they're just from zero, let's say?

Okay, so starting from ground zero, and I know this is gonna sound cliché, Tino, but here's the deal. Know your why. Know your why as a person and know your why as a business of what you're representing, right? If you're an important, you know, marketing or marketing agency, even an outsider, know why your client's doing something. Know the why of whatever it is of any project you're embarking on. And I would dare say apply this to your personal life. Know the why of why you're doing anything. Okay, well, you know what, Tino, again, you know me. I am actually eating healthier. Why? Because I'm going to go to Checkpoint CPX in Las Vegas in next week. Mama needs to lose weight. Okay, that's my why, right? Like, so, so when you're embarking on content creation, you have to know why you're doing it. And I'll tell you why this matters. It's because, like all things, we need key performance indicators to know that this project is effective in whatever it is. Right? So knowing why you're doing this is not a goal or objective. Knowing why you're doing something is the fuel that's going to inspire you and keep you excited such that you can achieve those goals and objectives and the KPIs that you need from, you know, to be successful and report back to management that these are dollars well spent. But if you don't know why your company's doing something, talk about anything then, because it doesn't matter. Right? There's got to be something that's inside that's going to say this is going to validate everything that we're doing. It's again, it, and it hearkens back to, um, what makes you cry emotionally. So remember that I was talking about earlier about storytelling? You have to cry yourself. You have to connect emotionally to yourself, to whatever content you're creating, because it won't resonate. It will lack authenticity. So my final words are Know why you're doing something, because when you do that, you're going to speak from authenticity, and being authentic is what connects and resonates with people.

So true, so true. Well, Thea, thanks so much for joining us. Where can we find you? Where where can people connect with you and learn more about your work?

Well, thank you. Well, LinkedIn. I I've been in LinkedIner, so at Sia Yasu Tornrat. I'm always on LinkedIn. You can. also find me at brilliantbeammedia.com. And of course, if anyone wants to reach out, man, hit me up. See ya at brilliantbeammedia.com.

Love it, love it. And you know, for the audience, this is, this is a perfect example of, uh, making a decision and then making it right. Oh no, no, no, we could do all kinds of things, but we choose to move forward and trust That 2 professionals can handle whatever challenges ahead.

So, um, I'm not sure about right. I would say you're making a decision and that's what matters, right?

That's right. Well, again, thanks so much. Thanks to the audience. Stay safe, stay smart. We'll see you in the next Check Point.