Episode 11: Navigating the Production Path with Executive Producer Kat Roman

Welcome to the Entertainment Business Podcast. I'm your host, Tisha Morris. Join me as we go inside the entertainment industry of film, TV, books, music, and all content creation, where we'll weave together the creative and business of entertainment with practical tips, inspirational interviews, and insider information of all the latest trends. And with that, let's get on with the show. Hello everyone and welcome to The Entertainment Business Podcast. This is Tisha Morris, your host, and thank you so much for tuning in to this episode and all the, uh, past ones. If you haven't checked them out, check out the archives. Also, don't forget to subscribe so that you can always catch the newest, latest episode. I'm really excited to have as my guest today and introduce you to Kat Roman. She is an award-winning writer, director, and producer. Whose work has been recognized by the Telly Awards, the National Board of Review. She's been featured in Jackson Wild, Idlewild Film Festival, a lot of wild here, and Sundance. She has over a decade of experience in the field on sets and studios, production offices. Basically, she's done anything and everything there is around production, and she got her start in independent filmmaking. And has worked on a variety of network shows, documentaries, and also worked with companies like Meta and Puma. Uh, she now works as an executive producer at People's Television in New York City and oversees the production of documentary and commercial film projects while also continuing to direct scripted stories. Her work focuses on celebrating imperfections and the importance of finding levity, camaraderie, joy, and humor. Who couldn't use more of all of that? So on that, welcome, Kat.

Thank you, Tisha. Thank you for having me.

Oh, thank you for being here. I know you are busy because you are a producer, and I think producers probably are the busiest people on the planet.

Yes.

No contest. Yes. I think it takes a certain personality to be a producer. Am I right?

100%.

So I would love to hear, first of all, you're a working producer, which these days is nothing to take lightly. Are you feeling the kind of the, the pullback that's been happening?

Oh my gosh. Painfully. It's a weird thing to talk about. It's always the first thing in a conversation.

How you doing? You all right?

You making it? Definitely a huge shift. I think we're at one of those like big right turns in the industry. Like after Golden Age of TV, pre-Over the Top, we're just in this big shift of how we treat our workers, how we make our profits.

And we're—

I think we're all feeling it. I feel— I really appreciate you mentioning that because I feel uniquely, um, humble and grateful to be a working producer. As you said, that's such a special, uh, place to be in because so much producing— a lot of the ask of producers is to invest their own money and time and energy depending on what facet of the work you're in or what you're doing. And I've recently— it's so great to chat with you about this now because I recently in the past year made a big shift. I was broken from the wild. I was freelancing for 10 years on my own with my husband and did a grad program. And then I've recently taken a full-time role with, with People's Television, and that was a huge transition. So the timing is odd. I'm really grateful for it again, but I'm seeing all around me friends and colleagues who are having challenges working just based off of the strain. It's very apparent. So I feel every moment, no matter how tricky, exhausting or tough it can get, I try to return myself to some gratitude to just be able to do the work and try. Because so much of producing, you don't get funding day to day, right? So much is independent.

I'd love, I, oh, sorry. I'd, I'd love to hear your background, your origin story in production and how, I'm sure it wasn't a, a, a straight line. Yeah.

Oh, origin story. How much fun. I would love to have an origin story. So here, we'll make one. So born to a marketer, just my mom is an innate storyteller, helping me learn anything with Growing up was drawing it out, writing it out, expressing it through journaling or story, or finding visuals and pasting them together, painting, being physical, making imagery and shapes. And then my stepdad was a detective, so I always found a really strong curiosity for things of what's behind the reasoning, what's the motivation. And then my dad is, is a really brilliant artist in his own right and really helped my brother and I engage along with my other parents. And I have many parents.

You need an extra.

Yeah, exactly. I've got plenty. I'll, I'll take 'em all. Just not the, the care I've gotta figure out, but at the end, but I love them, so they're all great. And my dad really showed us these, exposed my brother and I to some special, amazing, critical early on films. Like 12 Angry Men is probably like the film I go to most and I've seen the most in life, which is wild, but was such a special kind of education of watching movies. And it took me a long time. It might feel obvious now. Sometimes I doubt it. I think we all do. But it took me a long time to realize and say the words, I wanna be a filmmaker. I wanna make movies. I wanna make shows. I wanna put things together and work with people to make people who watch it feel something. And that, that's a scary thing to say to a marketer, to a cop, to a, to folks who have more traditional kind of careers. And it's also really hard to fit together of how to pursue. I remember when I first kicked off and, and now still being so baffled at just show me the steps. What are the right steps to take? What ladder do I climb? Do I start as an assistant and go where? And I think what I've learned in these years is there's no real right way. And people say that a lot and I can feel frustrating as you're getting going. But the reality is so much of this is what you make it and where you push and how you push and how you take care of yourself and how you nurture your community and where you decide you wanna be and how to try to put yourself there. And then, I don't know, Tisha, I feel like that's 30% maybe, and then 70% is just luck and life and circumstance, right? So being easy on yourself in that, but. I've only learned that recently to go back to the origin story. I had that upbringing with family to help learn visuals and feelings and emotion. And I did that thing. I had that moment in college where I like woke up one night like, I wanna be a filmmaker. 'Cause I was being pressed and I was that person who waited until like literally the last like nanosecond to decide a major. Truly, I was like, I put it off. I just didn't know. It's such a big decision. If you have the benefit of going to college and if that works for you. To answer, hey, this is where I wanna put my life. That's huge. And I just couldn't, I wanted to do everything. I couldn't decide. I tried nursing, I tried teaching, like being with people. But then I had that moment of, gosh, if there's, not to be morbid, but if there's a gun to my head, what's the answer? I don't know. And then one day I just realized I really just wanna make movies. I just wanna work with people. I wanna make content that has an impact. And then from there I studied, I decided to study. The school I went to, there was no program. For filmmaking, like a lot of places. And so I just studied communications and art and business to try to make a triad to support the work in a way. And it helped. And then when I moved back home, I started— my parents were really instrumental. They gave me a lot of resources and ways to understand myself and what I wanted to do and how to place myself in a position of that could maybe help that. So I started supporting and assisting around political production offices, which is a whole world. Political ad agencies, and I got a little into doc and I met some friends. I met my husband on a really crazy film set where I was technically his boss, we love to say. But, just tried to verbalize, I wanna do this thing, how do I do it? Started meeting people, going to groups, going to meetups, meeting community members who also wanted to do this weird thing and learn, start to learn steps. Eventually that led me to some opportunities, some early jobs, and then, that got me into kind of the doc world. My first big job ever was at Smithsonian, which blew me away. And that was an example to, to speak to like how crazy it— there's no right direct way to do this, right? I'd never applied for that job. I didn't know anyone directly. I had just been pumping my resume and going to hiring agencies and talking to people. And somehow through powers that be, my resume landed on the desk of a woman named Cindy Kennard, who was a force, an incredible person. She out in LA, she runs the Annenberg Foundation presently. She gave me my first job and said, hey, I need an assistant. I know you wanna be in film. I'll call you a production assistant, which helped me optically. And we kicked off from there. Well, I had a fun little caveat. Maybe it's fun. It's fun for me that she said, hey, this is an admin job and you sound like you wanna be more creative. Just a heads up, that's not the same thing. I want you to know that now. And I really appreciated that, that foresight, that, that vision she had to say, hey, little one, this is not what you're verbalizing, just so you know. And Typical me, I just bullhorned through and said, yeah, of course, great, but I need to learn. Let's get going together. And so that kind of kicked me off there. Spent a few years helping make content for other very Smithsonian usage on the enterprise side, which is all their revenue stuff, like channel, internal communications, internal media. Helped with their podcast because they just needed help and I was there and I was able to support. And then eventually said, okay, this is really, this is, this asks a lot. This is, I'm familiar with what the space is. Knew I wanted to expand into bigger docs and scripted. And so then my partner and I moved out to New York, started a grad program that the whole joke— it's called Furstein Graduate School of Cinema, highly recommend it. I was the second class to go through. So the whole joke was we had like Arri cameras to rent, but we didn't have trash cans. There was like a lot being learned and discovered in that program, but it was really brilliant cuz personally I've learned I do well with a lot of agency and a lot of space to be and grow in a lot of direction. So that was great for me. So I was able to find my way and I studied producing there and that was brilliant because it gave me this really intimate big picture of the structure of filmmaking overall, mostly in film and, and also TV. But that applied of course to commercial and doc and stuff, just like the basics. And had some great professors there, Jane Applegate, Jason Cleo, some wonderful folks who gave us the perspective of here's how this beast operates, try to fit yourself in as you can.

Yeah.

We got Celeste and his strong producers who came in, do case studies, make our own projects. Um, and we all operated in our individual departments. So each student was, uh, applied to and, and was dedicated to a department of work. So there's music, there's effects, there's editing, there's directing, and yada yada. So you're creating this pseudo environment that mimics the actual industry. So that was fantastic. And I met a lot of good friends, tried to at least, and, took on any opportunity I could that I was able to. By circumstance and started freelancing. I did a lot of second AD work, a lot of directing work or assistant directing work, and got into the doc commercial space from there. That's so much. Oh my gosh, Tisha, I just gave you so much info. I apologize. Thanks for my novel. It's okay.

What was the name of the program again?

The program, my grad program is called the Feirstein Graduate School of Cinema. It's a part of Brooklyn College, a part of CUNY.

Okay.

And what's so cool is it's on the Steiner Film Lab. Which is fantastic because you get exposure. I accidentally rode an elevator with Michelle Williams and made her laugh, which I'm very proud of. And I didn't realize until she left and I saw her full profile and I saw she was, they had a handler with her and I realized, oh my gosh. And they were filming The Greatest Showman as I was in there for my grad program. So it was really special, um, to just get access to the kind of top tier possible. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So yes, I think. To sum up your path, it's actually, it's strangely similar to my path of becoming an entertainment attorney, just a little bit different roundabouts. But basically when something's your dharma, like things magically open up and those resumes fall on the desks or the phone calls happen to be made at the right time and those things. But like you, I really, I just went towards it to learning. I didn't do a full program like you, but I actually took some producing courses. To learn all sides of production. And now I do production legal. I took acting classes so that I can see the world through the actor's eyes. Of course, set design. I've pretty much been on all sides of filmmaking. And then I, and not really, I've always had a draw to it. And like you, um, my parents, my mom loved to go to the movies. And so every Friday night I saw every movie that was ever made and made mainstream made in the theater in the 1980s and '90s. And so there's just like this magnetic pull draw to, to the things that we're meant to do. Very cool. So you've basically done pretty much everything in production. What is your favorite? If you had to pick your ideal project, what would that look like?

That might get me fired. I'm just kidding. I, I, that, and thank you so much for sharing your background. I know we're chatting of what I've done, but it's so helpful to learn that kind of similarity and I think the best advice ever is to just learn as much as you can. And that's advice I got too, of be across every part of a department, learn what their issues and their stresses are, what they worry about, what they're excited about. I similarly also, I took a writing for actors class, Tisha and I, it was so embarrassing. I, I thought it was just really writing for actors. No, it was acting and it was hard. It is not easy as I learned. But the thing I, oh gosh, what I love to do, what a fun question. I love spending space in that thought area. I, I personally, selfishly, I love being the quarterback. I love directing. I love working with people. Um, I love shaping something. I love bringing elements together to make something that wasn't there that makes people feel something. That to me is just the judge. And what's so lovely is with producing and, and executive producing, which is just producing at a, a little bit of a distance, maybe a little bit of a scale. You're producing several projects versus just lead producing one thing or two. I, you get to do that in a different way, more at a computer, more removed, but you get to envision big picture and put pieces together and fight for things here and let things go there and push and pull and work with your team members and your cast and your clients to say, hey, how can we all come together and get this thing that we want? We might have different ways of achieving that, but how can we land on that? So that's, to me, that's very similar to directing of looking at a pool of people. When do you push? When do you let information out? When do you hold it back? That kind of strategical play, which is very mentally taxing, but so rewarding too when you can have a success and people are taken care of and you make something people are proud of and enjoy and it has a purpose. I see a lot of similarity to producing and directing in that way.

Mm-hmm.

Not so hands-on directing of image and tone and specifics, but, but in project overall.

Mm-hmm.

So big picture, I love, I'm a huge sucker for slice of life film. I love tour de forces. I love a rom-com. I love feeling. I'm a big feeler, Tisha. I'll cry at like a P&G commercial. I'm a huge— I love feeling. I love helping others feel and connecting on that too. Especially when you meet someone and they may be totally different than you, but you both love this film or this moment or this commercial. And it's like, why? And you get to make a new relationship, a new discovery, a new groove in your brain. You get to ask. So overall, I just love working with people and overseeing things and making stuff happen. So of course I'll say for my colleagues and my team, of course I love executive producing. I do. But personally, I really get a lot of energy from directing and working with people.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, how much, how much time, or not time, how much control do you have on post-production?

In the role I'm in now? Yeah. Uh, lots. A good bit. A lot of the work I do, people's television, is really strong storytelling, usually socially just, or usually motivated in the social justice or activism space. And so usually we're working with foundations who are scaled to output a certain amount of content that need to tell stories and reach audiences in some way. So throughout that process, we have a small team at Peebles, a wonderful group of people at Peebles, but we'll scale up and down to bring on team members as needed to fit a project. So typically our budgets don't allow, our spends don't allow for that longevity to be so extreme where that filmmaker or that director or producer can have total oversight. So because I have the privilege of being staffed and also the responsibility of coming in and ensuring full oversight delivery, I'll probably be the first and the last out on most things to make sure it hits items. There's, there's other team members. We have a great post supervisor. We have other great post support team members who help with that, but I'll typically be the first and last out on, on how something's overseen, the QC on something and making sure it's handed off and delivered. So a good, a good amount of influence.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I, I.

Did some reconnaissance with PeopleTV and it's such a cool production company. And for listeners, I encourage you to check out, uh, was it people.tv? Is that the, uh, people?

Gosh, I should know this. People.

Oh, I should know this too. It's people. People. Yes.

That's right. TV.

And what a cool production company, just really mission-driven. What, what amount is like original content versus what you're producing for other companies, like brands and. All kinds of companies.

Yeah, totally. All kinds of companies. We've dabbled in a lot of for-profit Fortune 500, big boys, big gals, big, big, big entities.

Mm-hmm.

But a majority of, or a strong majority of our work is foundation-based, is mission-driven, is, is branded content-oriented to some group who has some purpose. So we have had, we, we have a, a whole host, a whole slate of really inspiring, cool projects I'm thrilled about in development and something we're trying to do. Earnestly is get a development arm growing. As we all know, that takes a lot of cost and resource. So ideally our for-profit work adds to our original content and we can engage in that more. But we've had some standout documentaries. Our founder Nicholas Breckmann and a great group of folks directed and produced Not Going Quietly. I would, oh gosh, it's hard to put a number on it, but I would say something like, oh, I maybe 20/80, 10/90. That's a secret, but it's okay to be public. The idea is to really, to really bolster that original content because that, that truly, I think we're always all trying to circulate back to and capture that kind of original magic of original content. The challenge is it's so hard to get the resource and time and energy and especially team to give those original ideas and stories their due. So our, our focus is with these other projects to support that. And, and that's again, an arm we're just trying to get going. It's just tricky. It just takes a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've also done a lot of creating, I believe, with your husband, who's a director of cinema— director of photography.

Yeah.

Uh, cinematographer. What— tell me the difference between a cinematographer and a director of photography.

Honestly, sit them down and demand an answer and they'll all tell you something different.

Okay.

In humble opinion, I think cinematographer relates more to arthouse, to big cinema. It's definitely more of a, I think a UK term or a Brit— a British industry term. I think maybe I'm totally wrong, but I think it comes more from the UK industry and it's more big scaled, total light image manipulation, control, preparation. So there's, I think there's a little bit more in my understanding prestige attached to cinematographer and it also applies a certain scale. Director of photography, I think it's almost like the American version. I think many folks would be happy with that title. But I, in my experience, that's typically paired more with a digital space. I'm probably talking way out of turn, but I think the difference is ideally scale, probably ego and prestige. Yes. To be honest. And, and just origin. I think cinematographers more, more European and Asian. Gotcha. Gotcha. Similar idea. You're in charge of all the image. You manage your teams and departments to achieve that. Typically DPs, oh gosh, do I already say ever videographer? That's always so tricky. I'm minimizing, but no big, but typically of course if you ever hear videographer, It's gonna have a much lower scale and budget. That's all you, dude. And then a DP could probably have a smaller scale too, but I wouldn't count on it. It's just lingo.

Yeah. Yeah. So your husband is a DP.

Yes.

The big DP. A cinematographer, Sean Sonnenberg. And so do y'all create, have y'all done some work together?

Yes. It's the light of my life. I'm so freaking grateful. Truly, truly. We met on a set. I was, it was the first time I ever AD'd. I had no idea what I was doing. I was late. Which is what I was ADing. You're not late. In fairness, I got lost. I do remember, but I was ADing just a super passionate, no structure, fun short film with our friend, a filmmaker in Virginia named Dave Ashen. And we were just playing and we didn't have a super locked script. We were just doing some verité stuff with actors to create a tonal piece to advertise a feature to be proof of concept. Sean was on shooting. I was working at a restaurant. I had verbalized to friends, I'm trying to get into filmmaking. A manager heard, hey, you're trying to get into filmmaking at our other restaurant. This gentleman does filmmaking too. You should get in touch with him. So he did. He brought me on to help produce and help do AD, run the day, take all the blame, more or less. And on that shoot, I was, I was able to meet my husband Sean, who was filming and he was like hanging out of min— I'll say all my life he was hanging out of minivans, jumping on stalled railroad cars and running around and my heart was going crazy and I was trying to pull him back and keep him safe. And he's learned a lot now, but I remember being stressed and scared and outta my element, but I had so much fun with him and we were able to see each other creatively and, and have tough conversations and have fun. And that spread to the rest of the folks, even though it was a tough— turnover was not a thing. It was really hard and tough, but we had a really great time. And then from there just kept collaborating on some silly short films, trying to figure out what to do. And then we started partnering on projects and then eventually started dating and hanging out. And since then, we actually, in the pandemic, we drafted up a pro— a boot— super boutique production company we called Space Crow together to take on some projects we were able to get at that time in the pandemic. We had a lot of opportunities to help with some like digital conference events that we would normally help with the, the, the main videos for. We were able to help translate that to a whole experience online, which was fun. We worked for a group called Row New York. Under a woman named Colleen Bailey, who is an absolute advertising spitfire, which was super fun and formative. And from there, just took on some more commercial and branded clients. And a big part of our work too, I've always heard, have the cash flow, take care of yourself, be in the space if you can, and also have your creative flow. I've been very fortunate. A good part of our work and history, I've been able to try to bring them both together. That's hard to do. But on our creative flow, outside of our cash flow jobs, state small projects, we've tried to create our own original content. We've had the great opportunity to work with some wonderful folks, some great actors, some great filmmakers as well. There's a few series we've worked on, plenty, a couple scripts we've put together, lots of shorts, plenty more to come, and just trying to create that time and space to play and not forget that at the end of the day it's supposed to be fun. It's so easy to forget that. I actually have a sticky note that says, remember, it's supposed to be fun. So at any opportunity, in a meeting, in a moment, any tough time, under pressure, try to remember, oh, okay, find the fun, find the fun. Because truly, I think that's what gives us the most energy in this work. And that's what it's really about, is having a good time together with each other. 'Cause none of this is in isolation. But yeah, so all to say, there's some short films out there. There's a really cool short film called Spicy Latina, if I may say, doesn't—

okay.

That our friend Michelle Cepeda directed, Michelle Cepeda Cruz. And she is about her experience being fetishized and stereotyped As a Dominican woman in the dating circle, and it is quite a hoot. We filmed it in our apartment. Now it's legally down, but our neighbors hated us for a while. But we put a really special thing together recently during the strikes when a lot of our colleagues were out of work and just wanted to play, which was a huge asset and a huge, a huge resource to be able to do. So whenever we can, we try to, but it's hard. Bits and starts for sure.

Yeah. I imagine if me and my, we are always talking about shows that we come up with and have these always like riffing these ideas. And I'm sure the two of you probably do that a lot.

Absolutely. We have an idea jar that sometimes gets dusty. I try to push it, but we have a big glass jar that says idea jar. You just take a sticky note or a, any kind of piece of paper and just write an idea and toss it in. In our office at home, we have this big— it was pretty cheap actually— this big wall-to-wall corkboard that we pop up ideas and what state of development they're in. The reality that I think is important to share is it's so vital and such a good thing to do, to play and find your vibe and your voice and see what's possible, test your skills and grow them. But at the end of the day, I think— I'm sure you have ideas on this, and I'm sure you've seen a lot of this— but the reality is it just comes down to finding your funding, right? Or finding how to secure your resources. And when you actually do want to move the idea from the corkboard or the idea jar into actually being something, and that process can be so challenging.

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that.

Oh, oh no.

If you have any advice for aspiring— my advice for aspiring, for screenwriters is to actually produce.

Yeah, absolutely.

Maybe for producers to write. It's hard to separate the two anymore, but you might have a little more concrete advice than that for me.

Oh gosh. I, I think that's really great advice. I think getting out of your— we always joke, go touch grass. Like whenever you get stuck or discouraged, just in big picture, not funding, but big picture discouraged, just Go out and touch grass, get yourself some perspective, have other hobbies and interests because I feel like so much of this industry, whatever facet you're in, is so like chaotic is too strong, but nearly. There's only so much you can control and something, to give my mom shout out, something she's taught me that I try to enforce too with myself especially, but my teams and my colleagues is focusing on what you can control. There's only so much, there's so much fretting you can do and it's good to validate yourself. At the end of the day, fretting is fretting, worrying is worrying. You can only control the next thing in front of you that you have hands on, that you have access to. It's so important to give yourself that ease, I think, in that perspective. But gosh, in terms of getting things done, it's so challenging. It's taking a big, it's taking a perspective of a big picture and also being aware of those tiny details. I did wanna offer too, I, when I write, I can't not think of producing, like of This Cost That deal. Mm-hmm. You know, so sharing, having perspective across different roles to helps, I think, can— you never wanna limit yourself, but can help bolster how you're thinking about something so you're more considerate holistically. That's only gonna ever aid someone. But in terms of getting things produced or accomplished, finding partners, team members who share your ambition, who have a similar, simply similar schedule, similar availability so you can feel considered and confident in what you call provide something. I find one of the biggest challenges is Hey, we're all excited about this idea. Let's dive into it. And then maybe there's 5 people in that chat and then each of them have different availabilities, different ideas, work ethic, a different idea of availability. So aligning on like how you, what you owe to each other when you engage in something, I think is so important beyond, it's always great to get roles down and who's doing what, of course, but also getting down what can we really give to this? And I think. I struggle with this all the time. I have plenty of colleagues who could come on and speak to it, but being realistic about what you can really bite off and what you can give to something, I think really benefits. Like, it's never a problem to say, no, this doesn't work for me, but this does. And having confidence in yourself to identify what's reasonable for you, I think is one of the biggest assets I've seen across any kind of this work. Um, here's what I can give. Here's what I think. This is my boundary. Because so much of this takes so much labor of love, right? And such, of course, such a full Finding money. It's all honestly, at the end of the day, finding money's finding money. I would always suggest any— the narrative for anything to get made, I feel like it's money. It's just money and then how to use it and then knowing how to use it. 'Cause you could have money and lose it. And that happens. So having them, having sourcing funding, sourcing someone who can help you manage that well, give it more life, give it a longer run. Dare I say return every now and then. But, but yeah, finding out how to manage money, finding money and finding money's finding money. I think as I just said, it's like Finding someone who has a source who wants to engage maybe in a, in a mission or a niche or a group that, that maybe your project relates to. That might sound like a tired piece of advice, but finding groups that have budgets that they need to get rid of and prove that they can use. Different brands, different for-profit groups will, will have that need and initiative. Maybe not little filmmaker me, but someone who has access to assigning where money goes and putting it in the right places is a great place to start. Being flexible with, with your intention, with how you're presenting your vision to accommodate and interest people who have money is great. Taking the time and energy to source it. And again, your teaming, it really just comes down to, hey, who out of my friends who wants to make films is really great at convincing people of things and talking to people and likes that and gets energy from that? Can I pull them in to go help me hunt down this stuff and give them really great credit? And maybe we can align on their missions and vision. But I think the second part is being honest about what you like doing and what gives you energy. And if the fundraising or if the management part doesn't, can you find folks who can help you do that, who do it for that?

Yes.

Because I think we all do our best when we're doing the things that give us energy that we enjoy. Mm-hmm.

I really appreciate your, these pointer, these points that you're making because you're really pointing to the practical. I just wrote a SubSec article about, of me. I, I feel like I'm always this dream killer of, 'cause I am so, I have to be the realist in the room. And this, the entertainment industry is, you know, full of dreamers and a lot of tons of talent. But like the practicalities are such a big part of this as well. It is making, anytime you're making something, making a film or making, there is a, the practical, realistic things that, that are including money being a big one of those. So I appreciate your practical approach and obviously it's become, come with experience.

Oh, I appreciate that.

Thank you.

I so relate. I can sometimes, watching when I brainstorm with my husband, he'll come up with a really cool idea for something we're trying to do and I'll say, no, can't do it. There's no way.

Right.

We don't have time for that. We don't have energy for that. Are you kidding me? No way. And then he'll be so great to say, hang on, dare to dream. Come on. And you do, it's that crazy balance, right? You do have to, 'cause so much of our space coming from, if we just source it to cinema, so much of that comes from huge risks and super ballsy decisions.

Yeah.

I'm a huge, and I appreciate that celebration of being practical. I think that can be the ally. Oftentimes I find myself in environments where sometimes you feel like being practical, you might be speaking Portuguese, because every, everyone's bringing their ambition and their desire and their own baggage and their own wants to how to achieve something. And that can be challenging. So being easy on yourself is important, but it is, it's that balance where you really do wanna imagine, because so much movies are magic, right? Even a commercial's magic. I always think of that one commercial. There's a casting agency that made this of the larger male kid running just flat on an open road, and it's some kind of Nike commercial. But I just always remember that sticking with me of like, who would've ever thought to pitch that? Who would've thought that would have return? Who would've thought of how to go out? And that actually was a real kid who was cast, like to find them. And even something that transactional is like a really solid commercial. Takes a lot of vision and dreaming to pull off sometimes. Sometimes it's very practical and very rinse and repeat, but to push how we tell stories and do things forward, you do need that hopeful element of what can we pull off. But you do also, with that perspective— usually comes from creative, right? You do also have to have that perspective of what can we do, and we need to honor— everyone's trying to help each other. Producers aren't against crew, aren't against producers. You have different motivations, things can get lost in the fold with the best intentions. Everyone's tired and doing their best, but ultimately it's how can you bring these different pieces together to do something with different fears and wants. They're super valid. They're really valid, but just hard to, a hard wave to ride. No perfect way to do it.

Yes. One, one big question. LA or New York?

Oh no, no. Right. Oh no, that's not the right question, Tisha. That's terrible. No, it's a great question. It's constantly dancing in my brain. Living rent-free. Mm-hmm. I think they're both wonderful for different purposes. They offer such great things in different ways. I'm with obviously New York bias cuz that's been my experience. But I'll say every time we visit LA, we're like, why are we going home? What are we doing? There's wonderful resources in both. I think lots of shows being out in LA, lots of writing, lots of production happening, lots of the accounting process happening in New York. Lots of rinse and repeat procedurals, more comedy in LA. You're all wide and horizontal in LA driving around and you're all on top of each other bumping into each other in New York. I think what's so nice about New York is it's so storied. So is LA, but I'll say New York is so storied and the idea that you can just have a day outside of industry, just have a day on your feet, just walking around, getting on trains to me is super freeing.

Mm-hmm.

And I do really well with the diversity of life with diversity of industry, of ambition, of way to live. You can be in a car, you can be out of a car. So I, I appreciate that diversity of, of how to have your day. And LA is just amazing, right? The nature, the folks, the history, the space, the access, the prestige. It's just, it's unparalleled. You're right by the ocean. You've got mountains. It's just, it's so special. So it, I, oh God, can I say NYLA? New York LA? I guess.

Yes. But if it's an N, not an R, that was a trick question.

Yeah, I have friends who do, who are, candidly, friends who do this are very resourced and very experienced. So that's a big caveat, but who do that bicoastal lifestyle.

Yeah.

Who work and live in different places. Maybe even the show they're on travels to both. They like living in both, have friends and community. So overall, it just has to be what gives you the most energy and joy and what works for your lifestyle. But I think both have wonderful trajectories and environments overall. Tacos or pizza?

I don't know.

You tell me.

That's, I love it. Kat, this has been so fun and, and, and you have so much experience and wisdom, and I'm sure our listeners are gonna really appreciate it. KatRoman.com and she, her people's television is peoples.tv and check out her and her husband's production company, SpaceCrow.tv. Follow Kat at, on Instagram at Kat Laughs a Lot. Who wouldn't wanna follow that?

It's true.

And her husband, don't forget her husband too. He's at on Instagram at Sean Sonnenberg. All these will be in the show notes if you want to follow and connect with them and check out their websites. And also again, Peoples.TV is a wonderful production company for brands and organizations that need a brand, need a mission-oriented filmmaking productions. Anything else that I'm not mentioning, Kat, that you'd like to share?

Oh my gosh. No, you're perfect. Perfectly presented. I'm so thankful to you. Just Tisha, a huge shout out to you for putting this series together. It's a really special resource and very inspiring. Again, humbled to be a part of it and can't wait to hear more of these wonderful episodes.

Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If you like the podcast, please like, subscribe, maybe even share to your friends. And for more information about my services, visit my website at tishamorris.com. That's That's Tisha Morris. Well, that concludes today's episode, and I wish you all the best. Until next time, keep creating and please take care.