Deb Armstrong Interview

I was somebody when I was on the World Cup, I did not complain about my equipment. I did not use my equipment as an excuse. Now I'll tell you that the World Championships in 1985, I got 4th in that race in the GS by 5/100 of a second. And I'm not going to tell you all of the drama of my skis and the technician.

This week I got to chat with Deb Armstrong, former U.S. ski team member and winner of a gold medal at the 1984 Winter Olympics in alpine skiing. So incredible athlete, and I've been meaning to get in touch with Deb for a while because I think she's quite inspiring inspiring in the way she coaches. And if you check out her YouTube channel, Deb Armstrong, you'll really see this.

Not real fast right now. And what's important when you get into a steep pitch, like, you, you at any moment have to be able to do whatever you want to do. You have to be able to let it loose and go fast. You have to be able to stop. You have to be able to make a really quick turn, or you might want to be able to jump. For all of that, you have to be in balance. And for all of that, you have to be in control at all times.

You can just tell her passion through these videos. She gets really excited, has a lot of energy. But I really wanted to interview her to get to some more technical kind of questions, because I know that she's done a lot of stuff to help sort of maybe the average skier, but I wanted to interview her for people who are maybe a bit more technically minded. And to get her opinion on some really interesting topics. So I talked to Deb about getting older. So like, this is something we all have to deal with, and she's had a really big realization in the last year that this, this is this tipping point that she really needs to be active in, in doing something about that. So she talks to, to us about that. I ask her about equipment. And it's really interesting, you'll find out that she was almost sort of maybe born to ski with her anatomy. She fits boots really well, has never really had to do much. We talk about skis, we talk about technique, many great topics. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. I thoroughly did, and I can't wait to chat with Deb again and hopefully go for a ski with her and make a video with her on snow as well, because I think it would be a really fun experience and we'd learn a lot.

That's enough from me.

I hope you enjoy this interview with Deb Armstrong.

Where I am finding my personal joy, you know, at this point in my career, I am older. I don't have to prove anything to anybody. I've been there, I've done that, and It's kind of proving things to myself and really finding joy in a transformative relationship and experience with the guest. And that's challenging. I mean, it's not easy. And kind of finding the, the, I don't know, pride in that, joy in that, something.

So on, on that like the goal being like a transformative on-snow experience, would you say there are a couple of things that really you find seem to be barriers, hurdles to, to, to getting there? Like for example, I would, I'd say for me, like, uh, I, I really find it's people's beliefs before you're coaching them. And, and if they're really, you know, holding on to that because maybe their dad taught them a certain way and you're telling them something that's complete opposite to what their dad— and their dad was their hero— you might never get through to them unless you approach that barrier.

So yeah, I mean, that's tough. It, it's Well, it's tough. It's tough working with those folks who don't necessarily want to learn, that that's not where they're at, or they don't necessarily care. You know, they don't need to improve. They don't want to improve. So there would be a disconnect. I'm not going to be the best person to be skiing with that person because I am just wired to learn, wired for growth, wired to improve. I don't really relate with the people who are out there who don't want that. So, so I'm not going to be the best guide for you on the mountain, you know, um, with the folks that are just set in their belief system, as, as you just said. Yeah, that's a, that's an interesting challenge, and I like to take on that challenge.

Like, can you think of an experience maybe last season with someone that maybe you got through to that person, or you figured out what the— or they maybe actually realized themselves what the— that, that was a block? Like, is there a personal experience there?

Well, you know, I don't know if I can think of one exactly, but I I have to be careful with myself because the block could be with me. You know, I mean, if they're dead set in where they're coming from, am I going to assume that they're the one that has to change? I mean, am I the one that is always right? Am I the one who knows everything? I mean, I have to ask myself that question. Is this a situation where I need to be open here.

Actually, that's huge. Like, I can think of a number of times being on snow with some maybe prolific type people where they've got themselves in a situation where they've not wanted to give up because of the ego or whatever. They're not wrong, and it doesn't— it's— yeah, it's hard, isn't it? Like, your ego, like, this It's so frustrating.

And there, there, there's— it's hard for me to think of a situation where I'm— where I have all the answers. I mean, I, there, I don't, I don't know how somebody learns best. I do not know how somebody is hearing what I'm saying. I don't know how they're understanding what I'm saying. So I certainly don't have all the answers and there are so many times I'm wrong. And I'll give an example. I was with a 9-year-old this last summer, and this 9-year-old is a good little skier, and this 9-year-old was motivated to go up longer in ski length. And, you know, I was set in my mind, no, you know, that's not right for you. But I kind of needed to pick my battles. I mean, long story short, this kid got on this really long slalom ski, and he just diced it. I mean, he humbled me, he taught me, and I just thought, "Wee!" You know, that I'm a real hard-headed— I've got ego, I'm a strong voice, a strong mind, and that gets me into trouble. I mean, I can be like a freight train with my thoughts and And, you know, I think sometimes that, that serves me really well. And I do know a lot. I mean, I've, I have a lot of expertise and experience and, and, but I don't know everything. So that's always a balancing act. Now, there, there was an example of an individual who, who had a lot of credentials kind of an older individual who was not evolving their mentality, not evolving technique. And there was sort of a feud within this person's ski club. And, you know, some people in the club wanted this guy to evolve and grow, and this guy was dead set. And they kind of brought me in to be the middle person and, and, and and break the ice. I don't know. I went out skiing with this guy. And oh my gosh, I mean, he belonged in a museum. It was insane what he was doing. What he was doing was beautiful, was amazing. It was old-fashioned. It belonged— no place for current certification, no place on the mountain. To be giving anybody modern tips and advice. But what I said to this guy is, please never change. You are brilliant. What you're doing is so amazing, is so skillful, but you can't confuse that with contemporary skiing. And right now that's a little bit confused. So I tried to, kind of validate where he was at, because what he was doing was really amazing, and I respected it, and I loved it. But don't bring it over here as contemporary.

How did it go? What was his response? Or what?

Um, I— he was stunned. He, he was stunned, but he needed to hear it. And also, I gave him a way out because I loved him up, man. I loved what he was doing, and I really respected him. Um, but it created some boundaries around it.

Yeah, yeah, very good point, very good point. I'll, I'll share a story. I was skiing in Sun Peaks in Canada, and I think this is 2013, and there was a guy, uh, over there working for the ski school. And, and I'd get up, I'd get on the first lift every morning because I would start my my, uh, class is at 9, so I'd be on lift at 8:30 on the beautiful snow. And, and this run under the chairlift, like, was one of the best ones, had the best pitch, and it was nice and wide. And so obviously everyone's watching each other as you ski down, people watching you. And yeah, there was this guy who was an Austrian who would also often ski, uh, the mornings, and we'd always sort of like pass each other, like, oh fun. And, um, and I remember, so I got to know him, and this guy, he was actually really good friends with Richie Berger. So he used to— Richie Berger trained him back in sort of Richie Berger's heyday, and I could kind of see it in his technique. Yeah. So we got to know each other, and then we went out skiing a few times, and he said, hey, Tom, with your short turns— I think I might have been asked, like, what do you do in your short turns? He said, you start, start with the upper body. And I said, well, in my association we don't. We start with the lower body.

Yeah.

And he said, well, he's kind of like, well, whatever, you know, that's what I do. You ask me what I do. And so then I decided to try it and, and, and it felt really good and weird, but I didn't believe it. So that afternoon I got my wife to video me doing short turns. I said, Jenny, I'm just going to rotate into my short turns, upper body, doing the wrong thing. And she videoed it. And then I looked at the video and I went, I'm not rotating. Like, I'm, I'm looking really dynamic. And so that was a really— I've had some amazing experiences like that. Yeah. Where I break some set beliefs, try it, and then also be a little bit scientific because I had video.

Was—

I was just trusting feelings feeling, and it ended up being a really big breakthrough in my, in my skiing technique. Uh, so do you have, do you have a story like that in your career, maybe even earlier on, like when you were racing at a high level, like where you were like, nope, I'm not going to take this person's advice, nope, nope, and then you did and maybe something good happened?

Well, uh, I, right off the top of my head That's nothing's coming up exactly, but, but maybe similar. I was a youngster. We were in New Zealand. We were having a training camp and I was 18 and the coaches wanted me to do something really different in my skiing. I don't remember exactly what it was. I'm sure I was a little bit back. I'm sure my balance was a little bit off. I was very strong, very powerful. I could get away with being a little out of balance at this stage stage in my career, and they wanted to change things up. For me, I was not able to make the change they wanted to see. I felt uncoachable. It was a little bit demoralizing, and that, that was tough on me. That camp was over. We came, we came back to the same camp a month later, and I communicated with the coaches a little bit differently. And I asked them, I said, listen, you know, I'm not bad because I'm on the U.S. ski team. I've made the U.S. team. So something about what I'm doing is working. I needed to figure out a way with the coaches to not give up what got me to that point, but to add tools, to add skills, to complement more, um, to what I was doing. I was not the complete skier yet, and, uh, there were some nuances. And when I hear the story that you just told, uh, I, I, I can't imagine you completely changed everything up, but you added just a little accent or a little flavor a little something from watching this other skier, this tip of maybe a little upper body, different accent. And wow. I mean, that really was, was what you needed. And I think with the coaches, when I got to this point where they weren't asking me to change, well, I needed to perceive it. As they were not asking me to change, I was going to add to what I was doing. And I've tried to deal with a lot of guests on the Hill that way. I, like, I'm not here to change you, what you do. Maybe you do really well, but we really need to add a little something here and there. And, and that's what, that's how people got to me as an athlete.

I think that's Yeah, see, even now reframing that experience, that's now probably how I would explain it. Even if I told the story again to someone else, right, I would say what I worked out was this was not changing the tip. He was not changing me because I guess in my head when he said do that, I had this image of seeing an intermediate skier rotate and then affect everything else. But I obviously I knew what a, what a, like an early-edged cutting carving ski felt like. So adding this didn't take away from that because like you said, very sensitive. When you get to this level, you're very sensitive, so you will not do something if it takes away from it.

But yeah, the addition, that little, that just that, and, and it is, you know, with skiing at the level that we're at You know, I mean, it's such little nuances that we're tinkering with, right? It's, it's minuscule. It's centimeters. It's timing. It's so small. And you, different body parts all the time, the emphasis, if it's the foot emphasis, or if it's the, the sternum emphasis, or, you know, just that one little It's like that little dash of salt, just a little more here, a little more there, and wow, I mean, that, that can make a difference.

Yeah, for me, like, I find some people say, oh, doesn't— don't you get sore from skiing or, or tired or whatever? For me, I— the way I approach skiing a lot of the time, it feels like yoga to me in a way. Because— and I guess I was thinking this, like, what, what do you kind of need first? Well, first I think you need, like, the ski to just interact with the snow well. And I think once you've got that, you can start being a little bit more creative with all these body segments to, like you said, change timing of pressure, change, um, some other aspects. And so it's really like, I really enjoy that, thinking about what my inside wrist elbow is doing for whole turns. Like you said, the sternum, my collarbones. Like, what's, what's the most like nitty-gritty thing you've ever kind of gone out and played with Deb? Is that—

well, the most nitty-gritty, I mean, I I'll tell you, I don't, I don't know about the most nitty-gritty, but I'll tell you what I absolutely love. Yeah, uh, I love stroking the ski and working the ski through my ankles. And when I'm— if I'm going to emphasize rotary, and I, you know, I mean, I was a ski racer, so, you know, edging pressure, I mean That was my life, right? When I discovered more of the rotary action, I fell in love. I mean, I could say that kind of turned into a favorite skill of mine, and, and, and then working that nuance with the carving, but But let me get back to the stroking of the ski and working the ankle. So, you know, when I was racing in the '80s, you know, working the tip to tail, working the tip to tail, I mean, that stroke where we're maybe back kind of at the end of the turn and then we get back forward. I mean, we were working fore-aft, a pretty wide range of fore-aft. And now with these shape skis and the shorter skis, I love thinking of fore-aft within the context of my bindings, within the context of my boot, not, not the tail of my ski or the tip of my ski, but within, within the parameters of that boot and within my binding, working fore-aft within my foot and getting the stroke and the energy. And when I'm working rotary, getting that full stroke, or when I'm, I'm just tipping and edging and getting that full stroke, that, that, uh, it's, it's, I don't know, it's like a dance. And so for me personally, I love that. And then there's something else that I've been playing with, and I don't talk about this with people because, uh, I, I think I talked with one guest on the hill about it. It got into the hips and it got into the hip flexors and the, the outside hip flexor and keeping it long and, and really working my hips through the turn with the stroke. And now I'm just getting out there. I'm in my own head, but I know my personal experience, the, the stroke of the ski and, and the work of the ankle and how that works up into my hip and how I'm, I, I, how I'm, uh, kind of, I, I, I, it's not a rotating of the hip, but it's an ex— it's a working the hip.

Yeah, the pelvis, pelvis, the pelvis almost driving on the finger.

It's that pelvis stroke.

Yeah.

Um, of that, of the outside You know, I don't know what you mean. And I work it. I get— I'm just— I find power and I keep— it's like pumping a skateboard.

Yeah, yeah.

Pumping the skateboard and you're on a flat. I love being on the flat catwalk and having people behind me and they're all going straight and I am working it and pumping it and making these turns and You, you know, uh, so, you know, like, like, I think—

and so I'm interested in your take on it— but I think, so if we, uh, look at instructors as, as maybe a group and how they've learned and the, the way they think about skiing, I, I feel a lot of them maybe miss this part because I think a lot of the time they stop at the hip joint And like you're saying, there's, there's stuff going on at the hip joint turning the femur, the legs and everything. But then what you're describing, and I definitely feel this, is this pelvis adding to it. And there's so much power in that, like pumping pelvis. And it's in every sport. Like you mentioned the skateboarding, like this— I haven't been able to ski this winter because of lockdowns, but I've surfed heaps, and I'm just getting into it. And man, it's such a good feeling because, because a wave, a lot of the time you have to keep pumping because it's not an endless hill that keeps going down, down, down, and down. It goes down, it goes flat, and if you don't do something, you now have no power. So you need to get back up, and you can only do that with this pelvic motion.

Yeah, with—

and yeah.

Yeah. So you're— I mean, but teaching the hips, coaching the hips, you don't hear it on the hill. And because people don't get it. And generally with the majority of people, there's so much other stuff to work on. You're going to get more bang for the buck if you deal with the other stuff. The level that we're talking about. I mean, if I'm just out on my own, I've got the stroking of the ski with the ankle, and I've got this nuanced stuff happening with my hips. I'm like, wow. I mean, that— and it's invisible. I mean, you really can't see it.

Um, and but, but I think, but I think it's— you, you kind of can, because that's when you watch, you see like two advanced or maybe even expert skiers And why do you like how someone looks versus the other one? It's this kind of invisible sort of— yeah, what this minutia of stroking the ski, like working the pelvis, like just those little things.

Well, and another, another one that's invisible that I do talk a lot about on the hill, and I try to be very transparent about it with folks because they can't see it, that's the foot-to-foot pressure. And the nuances from foot to foot. And, and, you know, people aren't going to see that. I mean, you would— we see it where— because we understand, I mean, with, with balance and all. But, um, but yeah, there's a lot going on that, yeah, you're not gonna see.

Yeah, yeah. But I— it's like, that's, that's the stuff I love going out and doing. And it sounds like you never waste a single piece of terrain on the hill. The cat tracks Like, I think a lot of people maybe miss— there's all these places where that's where you, I think, get ahead by putting the mileage in, like on the little cat track or from the top as you get off the lift, like how you even skate to the— across the flat, you know what I mean?

Yeah, I do.

Yeah, I can tell, like, that's your personality. You, like you said, you're learning all the time. You got to the U.S. Ski Team probably because you're like, what can I do here? What can I do here?

Well, and, and, um, I mean, we just get off on that ski design and that feeling of participating with that ski design and generating energy and, and propelling from that energy. I mean, and we know how to do that, and we know how amazing that feels, and you know, on the, the old conventional skis of, of the '80s, right? And getting that feeling back then on those skis, that's when I fell in love with skiing. I remember that day that I'm like, oh my gosh, I just fell in love with that feeling. And, and so you're talking about you actually got the feeling on a straight ski, getting that, getting that feeling back then, and that Yeah, that's when skiing became my favorite sport. And I was already on the U.S. ski team at that time. I was 18 or so. Yeah. And having that feeling back then, but then Shape skis came along and I'll never forget getting on the Shape skis for the very first time because it was early and I don't, think it was a great pair. Um, and torsionally, I, I think it was just a little too noodly for me. It was a little too soft, and I was such a strong skier and, and a carver, and I, and I— there was, there just wasn't enough underfoot for me, uh, that I, I didn't really like it. But then Once I found one that was stiff enough and the right shape and all, um, I got thoroughly exhausted because for me that ski was always on edge and I was bending as tight an arc as I could, and that was a lot of energy and that was a lot of turns at a time when everybody else was talking about how easy these new shape skis were. I'm like, what are you talking about? These things They're kicking my butt. This is hard. I mean, there's a lot of— it's high up on edge, and I'm bending the ski a lot and making a lot of turns. This takes a lot of energy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, I, um, so were you— so were you slalom specialist, or were you—

I made the team as a downhiller, uh, but I loved the And, you know, I— you asked about stories. I mean, when I was racing, I wasn't very cognitive about it or not very in my head about what was going on. I was very much of a feeler and a watcher. And that's how I learned. And I remember following Tamara McKinney, who was a tech specialist and such a a world-class champion slalom skier, and I was following her in Sölden, Austria, at a training camp. And I remember thinking, Tamara's not stronger than I am. She's not quicker than I am. She's not a better athlete than I am. How can she do what she does on skis? How is she quicker from turn to turn than I am? And I just got right behind her and I followed her. And that's when I figured out my fore-aft balance. That's when it occurred to me that my hips were just a little back and I needed that, that my, my cues, my, my verbal cue at that time was hips up. I needed to get my hips up over my feet. And then I could be right there with Tamara. And I really was able to access the tip of my ski, get the ski to bend, get that energy to propel me from turn to turn. And it wasn't a coach that taught me that, that was following Tamara.

This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach. And one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate Ski IQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens. But Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best SkiIQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps, and to be honest, my own highest SkiIQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of two turn tempo, so basically your turns per minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, it's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, check out Carv. And a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.

Yeah, and just figuring out the difference, like Yeah, and narrowing it down like you said, like, because I've had that same, same thought with someone. I'm like, I'm just as good as this person in the gym. Yeah, flexible, blah blah blah blah. What's the difference?

Yeah, yeah. And some, you know, it's that much of a difference, you know. I mean, it's just, it's, uh, it's a little, it's just a little, little bit.

Hey, have you— yeah, have you had a pair of ski boots that have been an absolute terrible awful— like actually you got in them and you went, I can't ski? Has that ever happened to you?

Oh, maybe not, but you know, I, I wouldn't say that bad that I can't ski. I pretty much can make anything work. I've had the opposite experience though, where I've gone into a boot and it's like, thank you. Like, yeah.

Which boot was that?

This is it. Oh gosh. Well, now I'm gonna— Or if you had a— the boots, the boot, the boots that I've been in most recently, and they're all, they're all kind of the same. It was that Nordica and then the Technica, and they were kind of with the same mold. Um, love those boots. Uh, this last year I got into a Fischer, and I wasn't sure. I, I was, I was like, oh no, I, I wasn't sure how I was gonna feel when I got onto the hill with that new Fischer, because I so loved those Nordicas, that Doberman, and the Technica. I mean, they worked well for me. And I got into that Fischer, took one run, one run, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is good.

So it's like, almost just like it just made it a little bit easier.

I'm like, thank you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was a total Um, uh, because you were expecting the worst. I was— I, I wasn't expecting the worst. I, it wasn't that at all, because I knew I could make anything work and I was going to be happy in anything. I was so happy when I got into it and I didn't have to make it work, but it's like, wow, this— I'm— I've got what I need here. This is, this is good.

So if you put those two boots together And have you feel like, can you describe even what do you—

I haven't done that. I haven't done that yet. And that's— I haven't done that, which is so interesting, but that's not me at my best. I've never been— I've never geeked out with my equipment that way. For me, the equipment is like, it's giving me a peace of mind and I'm getting that feeling. Kind of like when I was a racer, I, I couldn't have explained to you really what I was doing. It was that feel. I'm kind of that way with my equipment because I'm not like Bode Miller or the Mayer twins who were in the shop and they were making the skis and tweaking everything. That never was me. Just give it to me and I'm going to let you know if it's working for me or not.

Yep.

Yeah. But now that you mention that, it would be interesting. I was wondering if that Fisher boot maybe had a little more volume when I put my foot into it. I was wondering if without the bladder in there, if there was a little more volume than the others, and that, that's what made me wonder. And I could be wrong. I don't know if that was the case because when I got in—

Can I guess? I'm going to bring over a ski boot.

Okay.

Because I, I, I love geeking out on, on this stuff. I love geeking out. So that's my old Fischer.

Oh, sweet!

A 150. And that's the, the newer one. Okay, a couple of the GT Podium 140. Yeah, awesome. I've been, uh, experimenting because I make videos for, for people on my website about like You're going to check your equipment. Here's some things to consider. Yeah, show you this boot from this angle. I want you to just notice where the edge of the, uh, sole is. Yeah, then how, uh, my foot might be able to come over like the inside edge. Yeah, now I'm going to hold up the other one. Can you see this doesn't sit as much. Yeah, like internally I couldn't get my foot over to my big toe side as easy.

Ready?

I'll put them up both together now. Yeah, can you see that?

Yeah, did you like— so is that how it's made, or did you do something there? Did you punch it?

How it's made, and I might say there's 2 millimeters. Yeah, I think, oh, nothing. I step in this yellow boot without a liner, without a footbed, nothing, and I just test how easy I can roll my foot. Yellow one, easy, easy, easy. Black one, more effort.

Huh.

So, and this yellow one, for sure, I remember, haven't skated in it for a while, but it was a— it was just so good. I always had— yeah, icy snow, easier. And it's just levers. Like, where's the pivot point in the boot? Yeah, where's my weight? If it's a bit more over the top, I can tip it easier. Not— so I'm just— maybe to your question about the volume, even, I wonder if you get those boots and have a look, I wonder if there's a couple of mil.

Yeah, that would be interesting. And, and again, that's so— that's funny because that— I mean, I, I should show you a photo. I raced in the US National Downhill on the two completely different boots. Like, like you don't see that, right? Because I broke my leg and I was healing. So I had one boot on my right leg.

Yeah.

And my left leg was a different boot. It was the old Nordica Polaris. I don't know if you remember that boot, but it came up almost to your knee. It was a recreational boot. Whoa. I know, and I raced in that boot in US National Downhill. So, so that, that kind of tells you the story of my mentality. What I mean, I just put me on something and I'm going. Um, yeah, yes, yeah.

And I think that's a really good point. And, uh, like, because my, uh my, my sort of business partner Sam, he raced world championships, uh, Super G. And he's the same, he's like, he skis in a touring boot and a 115 underfoot ski and just like slays the mountain. I'm like, oh wow. And then same in whatever, it doesn't matter, he kind of makes it work. Um, and so I think that's really important to, to consider. But then like, I think there is that other aspect of like looking at this stuff, it— I mean like you said, like, what if you can get in a boot that makes 0.5% easier? What if that just allows your muscles to feel better throughout the day and not, you know, whatever?

And it— and the important thing is it's not an either-or. That, yeah, that, you know, I mean, it's true. Yeah, it's not an either-or. I mean, I could, I could ski in anything, but did I spend time with somebody working on my boots to make them just right? Absolutely. Did we grind them out? Do we make sure that I was, that, you know, that I was all in alignment? I mean, so yeah, yeah, yeah, you need to take care of those things. And also, I, you know, with my alignment, with my anatomy, uh, I did not have quirky things with my anatomy that needed to be overcome, that I, I, I, I could hop into any pair of boots and I was just straight up and down. I never canted, I never had to do any of that. So, so, so, because that, that was an advantage for me.

Um, and I, I agree, that's, that's what I think. This my friend Sam, same thing. I look at him His legs are like set up. Yeah, really well for skiing.

Yeah.

And I've got bowed legs.

Yeah. So you've got to— you— so it, it makes all the sense in the world that my bias, my natural thing, you know, I'm not going to focus on that in the same way you are because you need to. And then we kind of get to this middle place of of course I'm going to pay attention to my equipment. That's, that is all, all things being equal, you know, that's very important. And of course, you know, you need to be ballpark. But then, you know, there, there are some people that, uh, I mean, heck, I, I was somebody when I was on the World Cup, I did not complain about my equipment. I did not use my equipment as an excuse. Now, I'll tell you that the World Championships in 1985, I got 4th in that race in the GS by 5/100 of a second. And I'm not going to tell you all of the drama of my skis and the technician leading into that race. I mean, it was really a nightmare. It was not a good situation. And when I look back and think, wow, I missed a medal by 5/100 of a second with all that we were dealing with, with equipment. And, you know, that was a situation where attending to the equipment a little differently would have made a difference. Yeah, um, so yeah, I mean, if they're— both sides are true here.

Yep, yep, totally. Good point, good point. Great. So what are you— what are you like with your skiing? You get back on snow this season. Uh, we've chatted a bit before I started recording now about you're taking an approach— you're much more prepared physically coming into this season, correct? You, you realized last year you were not— you've hit this tipping point in terms of age. Maybe do you want to speak to, to that? Because I think there'd be some people here that either have gone through that or realized, you know, there's, there's a point.

Yeah, yeah, you know, we're, uh, I mean, I, I, uh, we're, we're all getting older, right? And And so I'm, I'm 57, and I was on the U.S. ski team. I still consider myself an athlete, but there's, there's no question in the world I don't have the strength that I used to have. I have much more wisdom than I used to have. And I also have had the advantage from my elite athletics. You know, I've been able to get away with not working out maybe as much as I should. And so yeah, last year I think was a low point for me. I did not invest in my conditioning as I can, as I should have, and I felt it on the hill. And that for me was problematic. So this summer, uh, I got after it. I, you know, I can't take this for granted anymore. And but the other thing is is, uh, I'm, you know, I still am a finely honed skier, and, and I love high-performance skiing, and I do not like the feeling of a sloppy turn.

Yeah.

And, but I'm not able to make a crisp turn on a real steep slope that's very, very firm like I used to. Maybe I can make 3 3 or 4 good crisp turns on that steep pitch, but then I need to ease up on it a little bit, slow the speed down a little bit, and get back to a place where I can get 4 good ones in. But I'm not gonna make 10 or 12 sloppy turns down that steep firm pitch with really big long drawn-out arcs. I don't like that. I still like to bend a tight arc. I like to bend as tight an arc as I can for the ski that I'm on, um, because that's a challenge that I, I really enjoy. Uh, and so I pay a lot of attention to the pitch and what am I, what am I capable of. And, you know, it's just different approach to the hill than it was when I was 25.

And then, because, you know, you've got— you must see yourself skiing a lot because you've got a really great, uh, sort of collection of content on YouTube. So you get to see yourself skiing. Um, are you thinking— yeah, are you thinking this season, is there anything you'd like to— even if it's just style Is that you're coming in, are you like, you got any goals? Or like, what's the, what's, what's your, is it just, is it more coaching? Like you said, you're really into like the, the giving people the best experience. And so being present with that.

Well, it is true. It is true. My competitiveness has switched a little bit about me and my physicality and the turns that I'm making to my competitiveness. Of, of making sure that each guest interaction is, is transformative and I am reaching that person as the professional, as the educator. I really want to meet that person where they're at. I do take a lot of joy out of that. And, and that is, that's awesome for me and my skiing personally. Yeah, you know, I'd like to push myself this season. I mean, I'll be turning 58 this season, and I'd like to push my range of motion, you know, and, and when I say lateral range of motion, that does not mean that I am moving laterally. It is the look if a picture is taken of me with my legs laterally out from under me. But I'm, I'm always thinking fore-aft, and I'm thinking working into the tip of that ski. I mean, that's how you bend it, that's, that's how I pressure it, and, and that's giving me the short leg long leg look of— yeah, so you know what I'm talking about. I, I mean, people are going to think about that and talk about that in different ways. I talk about that as a fore-aft, uh, bending the tip of the ski, shortening the inside leg, and, and with the edge angle and the shortening in the inside leg, you know, all of that, that happens. But that range of motion, um, I, I would like, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I can tell I'm getting more limited with that.

Got it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. And part of it is my flexibility, because that my inside leg is just not getting that short. It's not floating. I mean, I, you look at shots of, of, of Schifrin and, and all of these guys, and you know, that, that inside knee, it's just in their chest in a way that I can't do that anymore.

Yeah, yeah, yep, yep. So, so it sort of comes back almost to like, again, your motivation for this summer and, and fall, getting physically fit. Because like you said, you're getting older, you still want to keep that range, you've got to do something about it so you can perform on snow how you, how you'd like.

Yeah, I mean, your condition, your flexibility your physical condition. I mean, you know this, we're— but it's so intimately tied to what we're able to do, the type of turn we're able to execute. And it, it just takes a lot of flexibility, it takes a lot of strength, precision. Um, and, uh, yeah, cool, cool, cool.

So, and what about moguls? You Because you—

I love them. I—

anything—

oh, I love them.

Is there a line you're trying to like improve a bit more fluidity or, or consistency with, like in the moguls? If it's just a day, you're skiing by yourself, you're just doing moguls, what, what do you want to nail this season in your moguls?

Um, well Last year, I— that's where I felt challenged with my strength, my physicality. And I'm like, Deb, this, it's— this isn't safe. You can fake it, but this isn't okay. That's when I got into those zipper line moguls that were really, really icy and challenged myself. So this next year, I, I want to do that more. I, I, you know, I'd like to get to that zipper line moguls where kids train, and, um, I'd like to get in it and train myself. But then, uh, um, I think I, I love the moguls, but for me, when I'm out there on the mountain free skiing, I'm not skiing the zipper line very much. I mean I like trying to find the bank of the neighboring mogul and make that very deep round, you know, that deep round turn line. Yeah, yeah. I love that line. I love that line.

And does anyone stick out to you that you think like maybe on the internet or that you know is just a master at that?

Oh gosh, I, I, um, I'm not going to be able to throw out any names, uh, but when I see it— I saw some video, I saw some video of, of somebody. I'm not off the top of my head, I'm not remembering names, but it was like 15 years ago, I think. So the ski was a little bit longer. And they were so flipping athletic. I mean, pace, round, quick, mixing it all up. They weren't so hung up on the look. You know, I— we can, you know, we're performing and we can get really hung up on look or positioning, that sort of stuff. And these, these guys, what I saw was just epic athleticism. Yeah, such athleticism, um, and getting out of balance and then just right back in balance. I love seeing that, you know, out of balance, back in it. And, oh, it just was so fun.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's That's really important. Like, uh, that's what I love seeing, people like putting on— people that almost can put on a show and you're just blown away by, um, yeah, the athleticism and the, the creativity they can put into it, into especially in a mogul field, because I think that allows that because you can really use the terrain to get air, not get air, right? Compared to—

yeah, and You know, I see a lot of folks who are good skiers, and in their mind, I think they're putting on a show. They're kind of making these perfect turns, and then they perfectly mix it up, and then they perfectly do a little jump, and then they perfectly— and I'm like, whoa. I mean, that's not how a slalom ski race is done. Is going to be. I mean, it, to me, it's like you're— I love seeing somebody who's in, they're in control, but they are on the edge. Like, yeah, like they are so on the edge of almost out of control. But they're so athletic. And they're so good. They're still in control. And they mix it up. And you don't really know what's going to happen next. And they just continue to keep it together. And they just blow me away. I don't know, I find that really exciting.

Same. Yeah, yeah. And I think you have to really make that decision as a— because that's, that's maybe a hard choice as a skier because it is risky, you know. But like, your— if your goal is to try and move towards that, you have to put yourself in those situations.

And you want to know what? It's risky when you're not really fit. Yeah, I mean, that, that's where, yeah, it's risky. I mean, because see, I'm not going to do that these days. I really can't afford that. Right.

Yeah.

But that when I see people who are there, they're, they're that strong, you know, and athletic, and they know that they can be a little out of balance and they've got that strength in there. They're on the edge of out of control, but they never are. They're so strong, they're just with it and they keep it going. And I mean, to me, that, that's what's just amazing and so fun to watch.

Nice. Hey, so if we wrapping up here, uh, how can people— because I know you've been, uh, putting together some, some programs, or people can maybe join you or learn about your ski fitness program. Do you want to talk a bit about that and then any ways that people can connect with you or find you?

Well, um, you found me on Instagram, but I'm not there very often. I, I do have my YouTube channel, Deb Armstrong's Eden, and, uh, and I— whenever people comment on the— I, I see every comment, uh, I'm liking it or I'm responding to it. I, I see all of them. That's probably not the best way to have a conversation. Yeah. But people can find me that way for sure. And also, I have, I just started my website, skistrong.org.

Right.

And with skistrong.org, there's a, you can contact me through that. People can find me there.

And what do people find on skistrong.org?

Well, I've got my merch, right? I got my Skistrong merch. And, you know, I'm getting a lot of requests about skiing with me, and I'm not doing a whole lot of that because I just don't have the time. I've got some programming down in Taos Ski Valley in New Mexico that I'm doing some there. But, um, but I, I am accessible and people can find me through that and through the website. I've got my YouTubes and, you know, I'm just able to communicate and, and it's new, so I'm just sort of building it out and we'll see what comes of it.

Awesome. All right, well, Thanks so much. I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask a request of you. If you, when you get back on snow, uh, which would be pretty soon for you, won't it? Will you— oh, you're going to Solden?

Solden? Yeah, I am going to Solden. Um, but around here, I mean, all, uh, late, late October, I'll probably get on snow a couple days. In early November, I'll be know for sure.

Can you, can you message me what you think is the Fischer Technica difference? Like, like you can feel it. So I'd love to just hear, like, when you look at it, it's like maybe there's— yeah, maybe it is the internal volume.

So maybe, you know, and right off the top of my head, just from the very first impression, I, I felt something a little different laterally. It was a lateral stiffness that I liked. I like— so I'm gonna have to look at them and, and really see how— yeah, I'll pay attention to that.

We— because I'm a geek about that stuff. I love it.

This was the last time we checked. No, this won't be the last time. I, I can tell that we, we could geek out a long time together. This is fun. I love it. Yeah, yeah.

It's, it's so, uh, there's always a, a, like, two sides of the coin, positives and negatives. And, you know, I think COVID has helped people connect worldwide a whole lot, a whole lot better. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I appreciate it. And, uh, yeah, let's, let's, let's stay in touch. And I hope people enjoyed listening to this chat.

Well, I'm glad it worked out. This was very spontaneous, but, uh, you know It was a lot of fun. We'll do more.

Exactly.

This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach. And one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate SkiIQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens. But Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best SkiIQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps, and to be honest, my own highest SkiIQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of turn tempo, so basically your turns minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, it's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, check out Carv. And a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.