Erik Schlopy - Ex WC Skier on Ski Equipment, Drills and Beijing Winter Olympics

Hello skiers and welcome back to another episode of the Big Picture Skiing podcast. Now today you're in for a treat. You're about to listen to a conversation with Eric Schloepi, myself, and a couple of friends that we had in Park City a couple of weeks back. Now for those who don't know, Eric Schloepi is a 3-time Olympian, he's a bronze medalist in a World Championships, and he is multiple national champion, U.S. champion. And so this guy is an incredible skier. If you've ever seen him ski around Park City area, he is fast, he is high edge angles, he is really exciting to watch. But what's amazing about the interview you're about to hear is how technical and how into his equipment setup he is, and the experiments he's done over time to get the most out of his boots, bindings, and ski setup. You will also find out from Eric what his top 3 ski drills are for becoming a much more masterful skier. So, I'm going to let Eric take over from here. I apologise that the audio is a little bit rough. We sort of weren't expecting to be recording this, but I thought this is just too good an opportunity to pass up. So, I put my iPhone on the table, we started chatting, and the rest I'll leave to you to listen, and I'll join you at the end with a bit of a summary. I hope you enjoy this episode and interview with Eric Schlope.

So before we get to the boot, other stuff that we tinkered with. Obviously I'm going to leave the ski out of it just because that's a whole nother thing. Um, so binding and plate position. Yeah, so literally millimeters. And then, um, with the binding, you know, we'd move, we'd move maybe a centimeter forward or centimeter back and see if it was— if it's faster. And then we keep going till it wasn't faster anymore, and then bring it back. So we might move by like centimeters.

Yes.

Until then, millimeters backwards.

Yeah.

And find that sweet spot. And every ski and every skier is different.

Yeah. So like, you might have been— what did you find?

You—

was there a bit of a trend for you?

So yeah, I'll tell you what the trend was, which which is the next, the next layer up.

Okay.

So what we found was the binding or plate position was pretty universal. All the guys that were on that ski found it to be faster.

In this one, whether it's forward or back?

Yeah, in that one position.

So universal kind of agreement.

Pretty much in agreement. The next layer up was, of course, Of course, people don't realize how important bindings are to speed. Really? Every binding is different, and everyone's like, oh, it's just holding your foot in there, but it actually has a relationship with the ski and the skier. Okay. And so bindings, um, binding, like, you'll like even like—

you're not talking about even just— are you talking about weight?

No, just binding manufacturers. Okay, manufacturers. So Like Kristoffersen right now, he's on Rossi skis, but he's using Marker bindings. Yeah. And that's for a reason.

Yep.

I guarantee that wasn't an easy process for him to be doing that. So here's what I found with me. So you've got, you've got 3 places to lift the heel or the toe. So you've got it under the binding. So you've got your lifter plates.

Yep.

Then you've got your boot plates. Boot plates. And then you have your boot board. Yeah. So you've got the—

yeah, yeah.

So you've got 3 different places. All of them make it, uh, different—

different—

have different outcomes. People think, oh, if I'm just going to raise the heel by a centimeter, just do it in one of the easiest place. Yeah, but it's not that easy. It could be one of the three. Yeah, or a combination of the three. Okay, so I found one year, uh, in 2001, I was on Nordica boots and Atomic skis— no, sorry, Tecnica boots, Atomic skis. And I raised under the binding, I actually raised my heel 12 millimeters above my toe. A lot of people are going the opposite way, they call it a gas pedal. I don't agree with that. I— and that's— and that might be anatomical, but personally my thought is if you want to get forward, you raise your heels, your center of mass goes forward. Yeah. The other opinion is that you raise your heels up and then your butt drops. Yeah, I found that it put me in a position that was really powerful.

Do you know if you have a longer torso or longer leg?

I do.

So you have a long torso?

Yes.

Yeah, compared to other people have long legs, shorter torso.

Yeah, my wingspan, I'm 5'10", but my wingspan is 6'2".

Right.

So normally it matches with your, yeah, with your height.

Yeah.

So my long torso, I have long arms, long torso, and shorter legs. Legs. Yeah, yeah. Now, yeah, and that's maybe something I'd love to hear what you're finding out.

Yeah, yeah.

So that was a— that was like a really big—

like you did that and you went, oh yes, this is so much better, or what?

Like, it was more the Tom stuff. I saw it on the times. Yeah, because feel— my son ski races and I'm like, hey, feel It's great to have touch. Too much feel can actually work against you because you might, you might be fast, like crazy fast, and it feels like crap.

Yeah.

So one example of that was that Look had the— it was called the RK plate, which was like a metal plate, and it was like big and heavy, and it felt so so bad, but it was so fast.

Right.

So I won the, I won the World Championship bronze medal on the arcade plate.

Okay.

And it didn't, it never felt good, but it was always really fast.

Right. Yeah.

Okay.

So, yep. Okay.

So then you've got, you know, you've got your lifters and then you've got your boot board.

Can you give me an example of someone you knew that was gas pedaling and that they were faster of that? Do you know?

The only people I've heard gas using the gas pedal are juniors. Junior racers. Now, I don't— I've been out of World Cup for 12 years. I don't know that anybody used the gas pedal when I was there. I tried going both ways, and I just found— and I had an extreme rise from heel to toe. Yeah.

But I guess again, we're talking here, everyone doing this, their goal is to just go faster. They may not necessarily feel more control or something.

Yeah, I mean, you got to have the control, but it might feel like, yeah, rougher.

Yeah, yeah, you just—

and sometimes you're going so fast that you're, you're just like making it. Yeah, you know, yeah. And so it doesn't feel good, but you're just— everything's clean.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Um, And you know, I mean, you're on World Cup, it's injected ice, and you know, it's just, it's hard to feel good.

Okay, so I interrupted you. So done the binding plate?

Yep, under the binding plate is where I found it. And the other thing that I would say with that is that everything combines with the other thing.

Yeah.

So whatever I had at the time, the skis, the bindings, the boot, that 12mm heel-to-toe ramp angle might not have worked on a different setup.

Sure.

So it's almost like on every setup you've got to go through the process. You go through, yes, and you can go down the rabbit hole quickly. So —Yeah, I bet it. I always tell people, get your control, your control setup, whatever setup you know to currently be your fastest setup. Yep. Try one variable at a time. Yeah. And then add another variable, you know, so you, you get faster through each iteration. Okay, so then moving up on the boot, the boot board. And I see this, which is really cool.

What Eric is referring to here is a carbon insole made by inventor and sprint coach Adrien Barre. I've been using these insoles for quite a while now, and I really like the effect they have. And you'll learn that what the carbon fiber insole is designed to do is something that Schloepie was trying to do via an adaptation or modification to his boot board. Yeah, like the little rocket, rocket kind of—

Yeah, so what I did with my boot board was Harold Harb, he's out of Colorado. I took my boot boards to him and we actually took a router right down the center line. Yeah, of your foot. Of my foot. Yeah. And then laid in high-density rubber. So it actually did exactly this. This, but only did it one way. Yeah, to the big toe side.

Yes, to the inside edge. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So as you initiated turn, as you initiated turn, the rubber— this is my right foot making a right-footed turn— compress a little bit and then engage. Yeah. And what that did was, I always tell people, when you have your setup, you want your setup to feel like a dimmer switch as opposed to— snacks, gentlemen— a light switch. On, off, on, off. You want to be able to dim, get it bright, get it dim, bright, dim. And that's what, that's what that did was allow that. Just so I understand, you put the, what, a strip of rubber here? Yeah, so we routed it out. Yeah, so no, on the inside. Oh, so made it squishy on the inside but firm on the outside. So we lowered the inside along this—

yep, this line, longitudinal line. Yep.

And then we laid in like, I don't know if it was 1mm or 2mm of high-density rubber. And we messed around with the rubber, and like some rubber was too soft. Like you wanted it to be hard enough where you had to push on it to compress the rubber. Sure. So it wasn't like fitness room rubber. It was maybe a little less like, like a high-density foam. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like a stiff foam. George and I went and skied with Harold in November. Yeah, Harold's— I, I really like Harold. He's, you know, he's a character. He's definitely a ski industry, uh, um, figure. Um, All right, next thing, next thing that we messed around with was really punching out the ankle bone on the medial side. Yeah. So Bodhi and I actually, and a couple other guys, no pain on the medial ankle bone.

What's it called? The talon, the medial malleolus. Malleolus.

Yeah. Malleolus. Yeah. Malleolus. Yeah, the malleolus. So yeah, no pain, but we blew it out. So you could get your shin closer? No, no, because so when you go into a turn, yeah, I'm gonna do the best I can with my hands, but you want your foot and your ankle to articulate and push, tilt, like push sideways, right? So you get more skeletal alignment. Yeah, so when your ankle is straight and you go and you tip the ski over, everything's going down the center line and wants you—

exactly, it doesn't go through the base of the ski and flatten, right?

Yeah, if you can get your malleolus, like that part of your ankle, close to the edge, then all of a sudden that pressure is coming down closer to the edge.

Yeah, yeah, not the base. Yeah, skeletal strain. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, the bones are pushing.

You didn't feel— if you're coming through right through the turn on ice, you didn't feel this, the inside cuff trying to flatten out. You wanted it to be going— you want it to drive right in. Yes. Yeah, you want it to be going like this as opposed to like, like this.

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, yeah, that's— yeah. That's one of the recent things I've done through pain, but also realizing it feels better. Yeah. Yeah. Is like— Line it up. Yeah. Like I've got a pretty bony malleolus. Yeah.

So the foot goes literally like that in the boot.

Yeah. And now you can apply pressure. Yeah.

So it's going here as opposed to— That.

Like that. Yeah. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

And this is cool. I mean, it's another way around the same problem, right? Same. Same. Yeah, like, exactly. Except who— I don't know what it would feel like to have that extra. It almost feels like it would make the ski, like, hook the uphill ski, like, grab too much. But I don't know. Yeah, I mean, there's something you'd have to—

yeah, you'd have to feel. Yeah, it almost seems like a lot, you know, like a lump down the middle, the whole length of it. The first, the first version of that I got, it was It came with a strip of carbon that went there. Yeah. Because he knew I was a skier and he's like, well, what, like, he saw ski boots and he went, these things are not designed to help you get on the edge. They work against you. He's like, put this in, this will help give you a lever to tip it over. Who is this guy? Adrien Barre. He's like an athletics coach, sprint coach, inventor.

I mean, it's great to talk to people like that outside of skiing. Yeah, because that was working with a blank canvas. Yep.

Which I like. Yeah, he looks at it with fresh eyes and goes, yeah. And yeah, there's a few other things. I'm gonna let you finish. Yeah, yeah. So you did that with the boot board, but did you— you didn't play fore and aft like Brian?

Yeah, so left it pretty— we were kind of forced to grind the heel down to kind of compensate a bit for the—

no, no, we—

because of rules. So we had a max, a max boot height. Yep, 50mm, 55, whatever it was, I can't remember. But basically our boot— boots had to comply with FIS standards. And so they drop a little machine in there. I mean, guys were wearing footbeds inside their socks, so when they took their feet out, the footbeds weren't in there. But then they used Then they would start checking the feet. So I mean, it was everything, right? So then— And how much did you have to drop? Drop to— Yeah, it was a couple mils. I mean, basically we would drop it just to the point where our boot lifters, you know, when they dropped the plumb in there, it was compliant. So we did that to just I just comply with the rules and then I work everything outside as far as the ramp angle. Yep. And then, you know, I'm a big believer in— so my footbeds used to be a nothing but just molded to my feet but no material.

No material. Yeah, no posting.

So literally, yeah, no zero posting. You could rock that thing. If it was on the table, yeah, back and forth. There's no zero posting. Yeah, and I actually cut— I liked mine 3/4, so I would actually cut the toes.

Were not— or the ball of the foot was not on the footbed?

Yeah, so no, just the toes. Just the toes. So just past, you know, where your foot turns into toes. Yeah, I cut that and then I would grind it down so it had like a smooth transition, and that allowed my toes to be able to move. So I liked a lot of room just from here forward. So part of that footbed cutting, it was to just create room. Yeah, be able to let my toes move. Yeah, I like to pull my toes up. Yeah, so that, that engages my anterior tibialis. Yeah, which gives you ankle flexion, which, you know, keeps you in the— yeah, on the front of the boot.

Those toes also to actually evert your foot too, that they're evert, like, so you can hold it there. So sure, it doesn't—

yeah, pull your pinky toe up.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

So, um, and then what else?

Um, of course we used to grind all of this out so you could get your foot as close over.

Yeah, because when we have edge angles that are here, the snow would grab, grab this part of boot and make— and you'd slide them. Yeah, yeah. So it grinds as much as we could without ruining the integrity of the boot.

To help you with what he's describing here, basically if you took a boot on a table and tipped it sideways, there's a point at which the boot is going to touch the table as you're going for higher edge angles. So from the outside, they would grind plastic away so the boot could keep tipping further without what's called booting out. And not from the inside, from the outside.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because now you're just talking edge angle. Yeah, yeah. So you can see where this, this hits the table, like right there. Yeah. And I wanted to be able to get to there.

Not a lot of edge angle. You've got a binding plate and a ski, so it gets a little bit—

Yeah, but even so, the This boot, this boot is like a race boot without grinding. It would probably be here. Okay. And then after grinding, it's here. Yeah. So, um, no, I upsized. Oh, so I was 10— well, now like 10.5 now, but at the time it's like 10.

Yeah, one size boot shell.

So I raced for a long time with 25.5s and then The Tecnica guys, Mike Curtis and Bart Tuttle, they had the Formula— Tecnica Formula boot, which is that orange boot.

Yeah.

And that was the boot that honestly— Bodhi was on it after they put— they sized me because I was on a Nordica, but it was, it was all messed up. They're like, here, try these. It was one size bigger than what I was used to using. I went out to 2 runs, I'm like, done, I'm in. Yeah. And so that particular boot, I was on it, Dane Spencer, Casey Puckett, Bodie, and a couple other guys. And we went from never scoring, you know, US hadn't scored World Cup points in GS. Yeah. I mean, maybe a handful of points, but certainly nobody was in the top 10. '02, like all of us were scoring World Cup points, you know, and then, and then I got—

What do you think it was about this boot compared to like—

It was power transfer. I mean, my Nordica— plastic— my Nordica— so it's a longer story. Okay. The short story is I was making a comeback. Yeah. I didn't have any support from, from any factory or the U.S. ski team, so I was on my own. Yep. And my boots, nobody would was really helping me with my boots. So I had what I had. And then the Tecnica guys, so like, you know, at the time it was Mike Curtis, Bart Tuttle. They were like, hey, come into the trailer, we want to see, you know, just try this new boot out. And then it was like immediately, it was like immediately I had success.

That's what put me on the— How insane is that? Like a boot. Yeah. I mean, we understand now how important that is. But still, that's taking it to another level. Yeah, yeah. Do you still have those boots?

Uh-huh. Yeah, I do. Really? If I go to like, uh, um, like an invitation.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'll bring it. It's more nostalgia. Yeah, but I'm on Dalbello now and I love them. Yeah, they're like the most versatile boot. Do you feel that?

Is it—

yeah, the newer version, the newer version, the DRS 96, because I used to be on Dalbello when they first—

yeah, they were pretty aggressive. Yeah, and that's— yeah, something. I do a lot of work, but the new ones are—

they're pretty nice. They're awesome. Yeah, okay, they're the 96 DRS 96, so it's basically the store race boot.

And do you— what do you— what flex do you ski in? The 140. Yeah, like the, uh, like the, uh, don't they do in soft?

Well, that's the— that's the race Plug. Okay, you don't do that, you do the Stöhr? I do the Stöhr boot because I want to be able to ski powder, bumps, get in gates, make carving turns, and I reach the 140, and honestly it's very soft for me. Okay. Yeah, the Plug boot's a 92 or 93 last and not as comfortable, and if I were racing I would be on that. Yep. But I'm not, so I want to be able to do everything.

Yep.

So the other thing is too, I look at the characteristics of the plastic, and to me this boot is almost too reactive, at least this plastic is. Yeah. You see it just snap into place, and this is better over here. This is closer to what I want to see with with this, the inner flap. Yeah, so you pull the flap and then you want to see it vibrate and then slowly go back into its place, right? Not just—

so apologies for not having video of this. This, this was a last-minute decision to record, but so you know, if you had a pair of ski boots and you took the top part of the cuff where there's the overlap, one hand grabbed one side, the other hand grabbed the other side so you could slide your foot in is basically taking one side, pulling it away like you're pulling like the back of a crossbow or like a catapult, and then letting go and feeling the reactive qualities of the plastic. Does it snap back like really quickly, or does it come back kind of like not too fast? Or when it comes back, does it kind of vibrate slowly back into position? And so this Fischer boot he was feeling, one of the vacuum plastic he felt it was too reactive, so it would pull back and then snap back really fast and then not really vibrate and stop. It would just snap back and, and just be there. So this was a really strange but really interesting test that he was doing that I've never seen anyone do before, but this is something he does, would grab with his boots and would feel it out, and he, and he likes a particular feel. Not return so fast to home position.

This is almost too reactive. Yeah, yeah. If I had another boot I could show you, but I always kind of check the reaction of the plastic. So you think it's too responsive? I think this is too responsive, like carbon fiber would be the same way where it's just like wham! Okay, like it just like goes right into place. I want to see it like when I snap it, it vibrates and then takes like 4 or 5 seconds to go back into its, its home.

Yeah. And then, for example, the Dowbellas, you feel that they have—

yeah, I mean, again, it's— we're talking, we're talking racing, you know, World Cup stuff. Yeah, that's a 150 plug upper. Yeah, the lower is a 130. Yeah, it's not, it's not the, it's not the, the stiffness of the plastic. It's the way it reacts when I snap it. Okay. Yeah, and I would say, and personally, like, I mean, I'd have to ski in it, but I would prefer to see this boot take, you know, fibers.

And how did you get to, you know, like, why did you end up doing that rant? Like, I've never heard of anyone doing that test.

This test? Yeah. I don't know. Did someone show you that test? Or were you just like— No, no one showed it. To me. I just— boots that I like, I, you know, play around with them and started snapping them just to see like what's the reaction. You know, I think at one point I had a boot that— so Tecnica, they had that Formula boot and it was— it truly was maybe the best boot ever made. And— but it had a flaw in that it would crack right here. Yeah, like that fish. Yeah, yeah. So it would crack, and all the racers, you know, were always like plastic welding them and getting them fixed. And, and then Tecnica, at the time this was early 2000s, they're like, oh man, like, we're gonna— we want to fix that problem. So instead of creating a new mold to try and fix the problem, they took the mold that was the best boot ever made, and they changed that mold, and then they gave us the new shells. Yeah, they were like a second and a half slower. Wow. Like going from top 10 in the World Cup to not qualifying. Yeah. And so it was impossible to stay with that. Yeah. So I can, you know, I have like a couple— I gave gave a couple pairs to some people that really wanted them, but I have 2 shells left of the original, and you can see that they both have the plastic welding on it. Yeah.

Do you think it was still skiing all right with the crack?

Well, I mean, it had— it was too soft. If you didn't fix the crack, it would just keep going. Okay, so we would drill out the crack. Yeah, yeah, just to survive. Yeah. And then we'd go get a plastic weld, and then that would crack. So it continually fix that. Yeah, but I mean, who cares, you know? You can at least still build new ones.

Now they can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So yeah, that's— I mean, I'm sure there was other things, but that was— that's kind of the overview.

What about like forward lean? Would you— were a lot of the race boots already set up pretty pretty much pretty race boots were what they were.

Yeah, yeah. So we would mess with like with shims. Yeah, that was very personal.

Yeah, probably more to do with your calf size.

Yeah, and that sort of stuff. Yeah, what actually what I did with, um, with those Technica boots, which nobody's done since, which I loved, was, um, instead of having a power strap, we took a rollerblade buckle and put it on the liner. So we buckle our boots and then we just had a ratchet rollerblade buckle. Yep. For the liner to cinch the liner down. Yep. So it didn't change because with the PowerStraps— and you get— this was pre-Booster, right? Yeah. So the PowerStraps would go here and would actually lock you to the back of the boot.

Yeah.

So with just cinching the liner, then you had the freedom Yeah, to actually move within the cuff a little bit to adjust that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you have a certain amount— I mean, like we do in Rec Boots— certain amount of forefoot range of motion with the liner inside the plastic that you set based on the conditions? Or did you just—

like, do you crank the crap out of your buckles, or do you leave a little bit of play?

Or is that discipline dependent? I'd say a little bit of play, but very, very little.

But not cinch. You like a little bit.

Yeah, I didn't like to like cut my circulation off. But you see any racer skiing and they unbuckle their— I mean, to this day, I'm like, my boots have to be tight enough where I have to unbuckle them at the end of every run. Yeah, if I want to enjoy my run down.

How do you go skiing bumps? How do I, how do I like, like personally rate yourself skiing bumps?

No, I think you're a good bump skier. I'm 50 now, so like, I mean, unless they're really soft bumps, I don't love them. I would say when I was a junior, you know, in my teens and 20s, I mean, of course you got to give props to the World Cup guys, the World Cup freestylers, but I felt like from a racer standpoint I was a very good bump skier.

Yeah, there's a lot of them not, right, because they're too edgy. And yeah, I mean, with the right skis and stuff.

I mean, now it's harder because back then all the skis were pretty narrow. Yeah. So now, like, if I'm out there on my Kendo, they're 90 wide. Yeah. So I'm skiing like all-mountain. I can carve on the groomers, I can get off-piste, but you get in the bumps and now they're so wide it's hard to have a quick edge transfer. So I mean, it's not the feeling I want in bumps, but I'm not gonna like have a pair of bump skis at this point. But the challenge now for rec skiers is that all the skis are so wide that their edge transfer in the bumps, it's impossible to be as quick as you can but you know, yeah, the bumps, the pro bump skiers or the Olympic bump skiers, you know, they're like 60. Yeah, they're narrower than a race ski. Yeah. And they have no sidecut, so they just come up so quick. Yeah, edge to edge. And I'm sure that I would love to ski bumps on their skis.

This episode is brought to you by Carv, the digital ski coach. Now, one of the features I've had the most fun with all time is simply the fact that Carv tracks every single turn you make. I treat it a bit like Strava. So at the end of the day, it tells me exactly how many turns I've done, and those numbers keep adding up across the season. So last season in Australia, I had a few days where I was doing nearly 2,500 turns, and my legs were tired, but it was really cool to try and have that number there motivating me. And I'm quietly working my way towards my 1 millionth turn with Carv. So the other metrics I've been diving into lately, and these are new for this season, are very unique and these are turn corridor and turn radius, and I don't see many skiers using them, but they tell you a lot about the shape and flow of your skiing. So the turn corridor shows you how far you're traveling across the hill, or the time almost between apex to apex, and how long you're taking to transition, while the turn radius measures the actual arc you create once you start the turn. So these can be different, you can have like a very wide corridor, say 18 meters, but a lower turn radius, or the other way around. So when you compare the two, it opens up a whole world of experimentation experimentation, and it would be a bit like a race coach will set different types of race courses to influence a racer or skier to change the timing and mix it up. So I encourage you to look into this if you've got Carv and play with it and see if you can manipulate it, because it's only going to improve your versatility. So I keep my Carv on my boots every single day because you never know quite know when like a change in technique or a new ski resort or skis will show up in the numbers. and it's great at the end of the day being able to check that, or even after the fact. And I'm really looking forward to the day I open the app and I see turn number 1 million. So if you want to explore your skiing in a completely different way, check out Carv, the digital ski coach. And thank you, team, for sponsoring this episode. It's funny because George was— he got it. Yeah, we were looking, he was in the back of the car.

Yeah. Company that makes just bump skis. Pretty much what all those— yeah, I know, it's Mike Page. Yeah, Nick.

Yeah, but yeah, I was surprised. I was looking at it and I was like, wow, that's like 55 or something. It was like really narrow.

But if you want to ski bumps well, you gotta have a quick edge.

And then, and then he said he got a message from Anna Kearney saying, look, tips are shorter poles, narrow skis. Yeah, that's all he's, you know, like Exactly.

So my poles are too long, my skis are too wide to ski bumps the way I want to. Yeah, but I live with it. Yeah.

And yeah, because you want to skate at home. Yeah.

Yeah, I'll just make it work. And I still love to ski bumps. And but, you know, back in the '80s and early '90s, like, I, I could hammer bumps pretty good. So what— minus the aerials.

So, you know, the first time I heard your, like, like, your name referred to was like in like a ski drill, the slopey drill.

Yeah, which is done wrong all around the world.

Okay, tell me about that. So maybe you can—

maybe you can—

I can ride it. Yes, maybe we can ride the wrong stuff.

You can, through your website you will correct the misconception.

Yeah, yeah, of the slopey drill.

So two things with the slopey drill, I gotta stand up for this. So the way everybody does it is like, you know what a teapot is, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it's just like this, that's a teapot. And it's almost getting outdated because now, you know, the racers are trying not to collapse their hip, they want to stay more square. And so I've heard like, oh, the Schloppy Drill is outdated, but I'm like, no, the Schloppy Drill is not a hip angulation drill.

This was absolutely fascinating to hear because through my instructor training over the years, this drill to me was taught as a hip angulation drill. And when you see a lot of people do it, this is what it looks like they're working on. So it's quite fascinating to hear from the person that, you know, the drill is named after, is saying that people are actually getting this drill wrong.

It's an extension drill. Okay, so if you look at a shot putter, you know, they, they, they've got their shot here. Yeah. And they wind up into compression, extend. Their power is coming from the legs, but the arm and the leg are following up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the Slopey Drill is an extension drill, and the way it used to be was you'd start with your arm here, and you'd start the turn, and you'd extend through the turn with your arm and your leg together. Uh-huh. Because most people are stagnant. Yeah, yeah, most people, you know, like, it was really just—

but don't extend the leg, right?

Yeah, they'll get lots of angles Yeah, but they're— but they actually, if you watch them in slow-mo, you're like, that looks great, but you're gonna literally make it 2 gates on a World Cup. Yeah, so you need to extend through the turn for that power, or at least hold your ground. So the slopey drill is meant to have an extension. Okay, I was talking to somebody, they're like, actually you should do with the outside arm, but I'm like, you know, I've got to try it. Yeah, but it feels like it would feel make you actually rotate more than square. Yeah.

But with your inside arm, what would you do with it?

So a lot of people just go up. Yeah. But it's actually more like, like into the center of the arc kind of thing. Yeah, center of the arc. But like, I would say just like a little bit somewhere in between. Okay. Up and parallel. You're not inside. Right.

But you're not— is that— yeah, you gotta— yeah, where that person— yeah, you don't go like that.

Yeah. More like this, you know, so again, like if you were to extend it like that, you'd be dropping the hip, so it's more projecting your body.

But the outcome you want is to feel an extension. Yeah. It's so funny because that's probably the most recent thing with like coaching, because I'm coaching online, right, and creating videos online, to help you with this. That's where I've come up with, I'm like, wow, like all these other things are going well, but I haven't told people about extension. And everyone is doing these things, but their outside leg stays bent. Or gets shorter. Or gets shorter, yeah, yeah. And then no, there's no strength, and they can't really develop more like progressive edge angle. Yeah. So that's really, extension. Slopey drill is an extension drill.

It is, yeah. Where did it get like— I would honestly, I have like 20 drills that are sloppy drills, but they're all totally different and weird.

So what, okay, what's your top 3 drills if you were like, okay, I need to race Bode Miller again, I want to kick his ass.

Well, yeah, you have your chance today.

What would be the top 3 drills you would do to get yourself back like like feeling good?

Um, well, I'm going to give you the top 3 drills in my mind for anybody. Yeah, especially like if you look for me, I'm always thinking like future for U.S. skiers, right? Yeah, yeah. What do U.S. skiers need to do more of? Yeah, because it works for everybody. Yeah, number 1 drill, yeah, one ski. Yeah, we were just talking about it today. One ski drill does everything.

So how about that? Eric Schloepie saying the number one drill if you want to get good at skiing is take one ski off and ski on one ski. And my co-coach Sam and I couldn't agree more with this sentence. I mean, if you really want to find the flaws in your skiing, your balance, your edging, timing, all that sort of stuff, one ski skiing will bring that all to the forefront and you will really learn how to build things up from the basics. And if you're interested in learning how to do the one-ski skiing drill, my co-coach Sam teaches Emma, a real-life student, how to do the drill on bigpictureskiing.com. You just need to go to the video library and search advanced carving, and you'll see a series. And then one of the steps, he teaches her this drill, the ins and outs of it, and you see her skiing get rapidly better. She comments how much easier it is to feel and notice what's going on on both skis. Yeah, like take one ski off, right?

Take one ski out, leave it at the bottom.

Yep.

Or whatever, have someone carry it for you. But start on like, you know, easy terrain, move up, and, and get to the point where you can carve turns on one ski, and you could put a piece of paper on the video and you couldn't tell that person was on one ski. Yeah, because first of all, you can't, you can't execute it unless you're right on the front of the boot. Yeah, you can't lean in. Yep, you actually have to have snow contact. It makes you have a solid upper body. Yep. So I mean, honestly, like, one ski is—

you'll find out all your dark demon problems. Yeah, right away. Yeah, yeah.

And then, you know, and it takes people— I mean, some people will never master it, but like a junior skier, we go on first time, you know, bunny hill until I see a kid— I'm just gonna say my son— yep, until he can carve, and then we'll go up and try it on a little bit harder terrain. In the beginning, won't be carving, but then carving, like, slowly, slowly get to the point where, like, even on the World Cup, I do one-ski drill and try and make perfect carves down like a blacktop, you know. So yeah, to me, the one-ski drill is the master.

That's the king. Yeah, that's the king of drills.

Yeah, other drills that I really like are the Slopey drill. To me, it's a good drill, but you actually have to be very advanced.

Yeah, it's for when you get into the point where you need that extension. Yeah, like you're carving.

Yeah, yeah, you're carving, and you should do it on like easy to medium terrain. And I don't even introduce that one until somebody Everybody's like a pretty strong racer. Yep. Um, but one that I really like is, um, edgy wedgies. Yeah, so basically snow plowing. Yeah. And you're just going back and forth. Yeah, outside ski. And, and you get— and you can feel it engage. Crab walk? Well, crab walks are a little— in my mind, crab walks are on a fire road. Like a cat track, yeah, and you lift your leg up and you just put the ski down. Oh, it starts to carve. Okay, so it goes from carve to carve. So when you put it down, it's already like engaging the side.

The one you're talking about, right, is like— yeah, too hard edge. Yeah, yeah. And you really feel that like—

like— yeah, but, but yeah, contrary to like a really hard edge, I want to see somebody be able to get early pressure and even pressure. Yeah, so it's like, you know, so you're— you can see people doing wedges and they would jam it if their pressure's late. Yeah, I want to see people actually get— understand to be able to get the ski to engage above, above the apex.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, and then build into the apex, and then build into the apex.

And it's okay to smear the turns a little bit. They don't have to be carves. Yeah. So it's just where the pressure is. Okay. And I tried this drill actually with Iceman. Yeah. The group I had one day. Nobody could do it. Yeah. They were all like, what, what? I don't, I don't get this. How are you doing that? And I'm like, it's just a snowplow. But you have to understand that like, here's the timing of the pressure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Um, did you persist and did they kind of get it?

Well, they loved it because all of a sudden these guys were like, oh, wait a second, we're missing something.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's a really easy thing to, to do. One ski's tougher because you need someone to carry it or leave at the bottom, and yeah, people can be self-conscious about it. Edgy wedges you can just do kind of anywhere on your own. Yeah. And honestly, that I would typically warm up even on on a World Cup, like racing World Cup, I'd warm up my first run, edgy, wedgies, yeah, and then just slowly go into turns. Love it, that's so cool. So, and then honestly, I spent—

What about, can I ask, like upper body discipline, like pole, drip?

Yeah, that one's, that one's interesting. I did that a lot as a kid. Yeah, I think Some people get really stagnant with that. Yeah. Because even though, you know, you want your leg to extend, your body kind of works in harmony. Yeah. Your upper body works in harmony with your legs, and so there is movement there to really like, like kind of sync those movements.

There's maybe a point where it's like you're not flailing, you quieten it down. Yeah. And then you can maybe work in the harmony. Yeah. Sync. Yeah. Yeah. And So, sorry to interrupt, but like Alice Robinson, wouldn't you say she's really got that?

She's doing something that she's trying something, in my opinion. Yeah, she's very extreme. She's trying to get that like square running, like, whoa. Yeah, she's like punches up into the air to try and get her ski to come through and square up. Yeah, I think she needs to calm that down. Okay, do that in the right place. Places. When she's on, yeah, she's the most dynamic, yeah, skier out there. Yeah, but she's like overdoing it. If she can just like pick her spots on the course when she uses that, like, probably less steep, right? Like, yeah, you want to generate, and you know, maybe a little less aggressive with that movement. Yeah, because that movement is making it hard for her to keep snow contact. So she'll fly off the snow, lose 5 feet of line, and then all of a sudden she's way behind. Yeah. And but I do love the way she skis when she's on. Yeah, I'm a big fan. Yeah. And it looked to me like her setup wasn't right in, in China. Yeah. Yeah.

On that, what do you, what do you think? Do you have an opinion on why so many people blew out?

Yeah, because they're because they'd never skied on that kind of artificial snow in China. And not all artificial snow is made equally. Yeah. You've got pH levels, you've got humidity, you've got temperatures, you've got, I mean, all those mixed together. And for the most part in Scandinavia and the US and Europe, the manmade snow kind of, you know, they all, they're all a little bit different. Yeah. But we, we know all three feels to those 3 regions. But China, nobody— like, we didn't have a test event. Yeah, you know, they just, they were— they're just not—

you— they're doing what they usually do on other snow that works. They're doing it here and it just doesn't work.

So who knows what does because there just hasn't been enough world-class skiers testing stuff out.

What did you think? Did you like— did you think— I thought Sarah Hector's run was pretty unbelievable.

Unbelievable. Insane. Yeah. How would you describe—

if someone's like, why, why was she better than, say, like even number 10 or even Federica? Like, well, I think—

I mean, honestly, I think, um, in China it was— it all came down to who could figure out the snow fastest. Okay. You got 10, 10 or 15 people who could win that race. Yeah. And, you know, 3 of them really figured out the snow. Yeah. Quickly. Yeah. Or by Who knows? And the other 12 look like they, you know, they were way off their, their, their mark. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And same with the guys. Have you skated in China? I haven't.

I've heard a friend, a couple of friends have gone over. One guy is like a junior on the Australian team, and he said it is very tiring. Like, it is hard but extremely grippy. Yeah, and so like to me it looked like these people had this kind of false confidence of like, whoa, this is really grippy, I can just go way in, and then there's this point and then they all slid out on their side.

I mean, you saw Odermatt in the Super-G, I mean, he almost like totally ate shit. Yeah. And he pulled it off and he was fine, but you saw him like come around the turn and all of a sudden it just grabbed and he almost he almost went highside into the fences. He made a great recovery, but yeah, you could see that it just— their setups weren't comfortable for them. Yeah, at least the majority of the racers.

What was like the biggest— like, do you recall one of the biggest breakthroughs in your skiing? Like, you skied— like, maybe it was like junior or something, you're like, yeah, and then someone said said, hey, you know what you're forgetting is, or why don't you try this?

Or— yeah, so I mean, obviously long period of time there. So 18 years in the World Cup, but started racing when I was like 4. Yeah, you know, I mean, obviously really racing when I was like 9 or 10. But the one that stands out, like, just like right, right now, yeah, um, was second World Cup stint We were training at Hintertux and the coaches set what's called an apex drill. So 2 GS panels, 2 GS panels, 2 GS panels. So they're, you know, 2 GS panels down the fall line. Yeah. And the key is, is that you, you have to look at it, the apex in the middle of those 2.

Yeah, like the gate is actually in the middle of the 2.

Yes. Yeah. So you— so it was really good for understanding the line, but it was on easy terrain, so I could pretty much tuck turn everything. And when I was tuck turning in the Apex Drill is when I realized that I could actually focus on my extension. So I was in my tuck. Yep. Took my upper body out of it. Not a low tuck, a high tuck. Yeah. But I was really feeling my ski, feeling my skis, and feeling that extension through the apex.

And also timing-wise, let's just check this, the timing-wise, the extension is— so if we've got the two panels, the high panel and the lower panel, yeah, where was the extension you're feeling it start?

Well, easiest to draw it out, but let's just say you've got the rise line.

Yeah, the rise, yeah.

So I'm transferring to the new ski Yep. And I've got flexion in my leg.

Yep, so you're not extended yet.

Yep, so I'm not extended yet, but I have flexion. A lot of people start the turn with too much extension. Yeah. So they have nowhere to go but down. Yeah. And getting smaller. Yep. So I'm flexed. I'm like flexed up and then right, right after my edge, I create that platform, I'm extending through the turn. Yep, extension starts. Still above the fall line.

And that extension starts, and did you feel like it kind of went, it wasn't like extend, done.

No, it was like extend, and then compression to start the next turn. Yeah. So what do they call it, like the French term?

Yeah, avalement. Yeah, and you really felt that. Swallow. Yeah.

So you Like extending and then swallowing and then starting it over again.

Yeah, and in— so I was in Canada for all of January, and that's one drill we learned to teach, like to help people carve better in Australia, is like the extension and traction drill. And you really exaggerate it.

Yeah.

And I went back and I was teaching some people about it, and I had some epiphanies of, of it. And straight after doing like 3 3 days of it, skied this black pitch and someone videoed it and I definitely felt and can see that like the best long turns I've made. Yeah. And it was, it was, it was, and I like, it's so funny you're talking about the extension thing, that's the like the biggest thing I've felt and I am really trying to refine and work on and it's hard, right? It's like a tight, like sometimes you get it right on the timing and You've got to be in sync with the fall line. Yeah, and you've got to be also like dropping as you're extending. Like, some people like, you extend but you're not increasing edge angle, right? So it's like this kind of feeling of— yeah, but that's just, yeah, interesting. So you felt that? Yeah. And in the tuck was almost easier because you didn't feel like your arms were locked out?

Yeah, it simplified it. Yeah. So all of a sudden it just became from my, my torso down feeling that. Yeah. And so, you know, again with my son, a lot of times we'll— I'll just be like, hey, just get in your high tuck. Yeah. And I want to see what your feet and your legs are doing. Take everything out of it except for your— what your legs are doing.

And so you did that, and then did you start getting better results too? Yeah, so that was the season where—

so I ended up, you know, third in the world World Cup standings that year. No way. And that, so that was part of that breakthrough.

And so say like, say you get, so you can do that, think about that in training, but in a World Cup, like are you actually thinking like the top you go, remember like try and feel the extension or like?

No, I mean World Cup, I mean you don't go full autopilot, but I mean, you have what you have. But I would have— I would actually write down on a 3x5 card 2 focus points, and then I would consider even a World Cup, I consider it training in a race environment. So, yeah, like, you know, I'm just training. Yeah, just trying to get better. Yep. And it's in a race environment. I have a bib on, there's there's people here, but yeah, but I'm gonna simplify today. It's not gonna be like a discovery session. Yeah, but it's going to be very simple. Two focus points. And so I'd actually keep that with me like in my suit or my helmet. And then if I got nervous, you know, like would start to feel like I was wandering a little bit with my mind, I just pull pull it out and be like, it's easy, it's easy, just 2 points.

Are you good at other sports too? It's okay to be, you know, on yourself. I think skiers in general, my personal opinion.

Good skiers? Yeah, well, you take the World Cup skiers. I think World Cup skiers are the most versatile athletes in the world. Yeah. And there's some— there is some fact to back that up. If you— so remember the Superstars competition? So you'd have guys from football and hockey and basketball, boxers, you know, all these amazing athletes, and you'd have skiers. Yeah. And then they would do this event, like over 10 events. You'd have like sprinting, weightlifting, rock climbing, kayaking, Biking, every time a skier was in there, they would win. Yeah, I guess. And so, like, and if there were two skiers, they'd be first and second. So like Hermann Mayer and Bode Miller battling it out to win the Superstars. But in the meantime, you had NFL All-Pros, NBA All-Pros, NHL All-Pros. So you had, you know, every time a skier, Ingemar Stenmark won mayors want it, both of them want it. And so, you know, and I think, yeah, I think, yeah, that's pretty interesting. And I would put myself in that.

So like growing up, versatile, did you, did you have, did your parents give you versatility in terms of like you weren't just skiing all the time?

Oh yeah, totally. So tennis, and I played tennis, I I played soccer, I skateboarded, I BMX raced. Yeah. I did track and field in high school just for fun, but still did it. You know, now, you know, mountain biking comes naturally. Hockey, picked up hockey when I was 40. That was, you know, it was pretty natural with the edge angles. Yeah, yeah. You know, I can surf pretty well. Yeah, I can water ski. Yeah, you know, all I think at a good level.

Yeah. Do you remember any of those sports you like, you kind of like maybe in a summertime you made a breakthrough in that sport and you went, oh, you know what, I reckon that could, I could apply that to skiing. Did that ever happen?

Honestly, the only the only sport that I felt like I wish I did more of when I was a kid was hockey. Yeah? Because the generation of speed is the same. Yeah. You have to extend. I tell people, pretend you're on ice skates. Yeah. How are you gonna go forward on skates? Yeah. You can't go, can't go like this. Yeah, you have to extend. You have to extend.

You have to put the ski in the right place.

Watch how much they load up and they extend. Yeah, so I wish I had more exposure to hockey as a kid, or at least skating in general. But, you know, I think it was more I just enjoyed doing as many different sports as I could, as long as they weren't—

Have you taken that with your— Endurance sports.

With your son? Okay, yeah, okay. You know, he's played everything. I've tried to get him to play more. Yeah. And he's a little hesitant, but he's got great balance. Like, he can pick stuff up. Yeah. Actually, the other sport which translates really well is motocross. So you look at like the Mayers, Darren Ralves, they were like incredible motocross riders. Line, balance. Yeah. Hirschers, same thing. Yeah. Yeah, so it just translates. And so actually, not because of this, but because I actually like to ride motocross, my son and I, we got motocross bikes. So we're going to do that this summer. Cool. Just, it's for the adventure and just getting out on trails. But I also am like, this is going to be good for you. Yeah. It's all about balance and line.

Yeah. And how's he going? Like, how do you see his progression?

He's doing awesome. Slalom is great.

Do you look at him and like, are there things you see that he's maybe like, really, you're like, yes?

Yeah, when he skis slalom. Yeah, I mean, he's 14. Yeah, but when he skis slalom, I'm like, I actually wish I skied slalom like that. I mean, I had top 5 World Cup slaloms. Yeah, but you look at his style, the way he skis is the way I wish I could Ski.

Yeah. What, what is it in that? What do you say?

The way he stands, and he's just, he's just tall and strong on the gate. Yeah. And it's just, it like consistent. Yeah. You know, again, he's 14, he's grown a foot, he's 6 feet tall. He's grown really, he's grown a foot in the last year and a half. Wow. So I think that's a challenge. 6'7". Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't think he's, you know, it's just based on me, his mom, he's not gonna be 6'7", but, but in my mind, maybe he's got another couple inches to grow. Yeah, but that's good because now he can catch up to his center of mass. Yeah, his center of mass right now is so far off of where it was. Yeah, right, it's confusing. Figure it out. Yeah, and especially in giant slalom. So Super-G, you can see he's got the time and he can figure that out in slalom. Same thing, you don't have time, but the way the center of mass works, GS is where he's struggling, I think, because of his center of mass. And he's 130 pounds. So as he gets muscle mass on— Yeah, he'll be able to just get so much more force in the ski.

But, and how much do you feel like you're in— like, has he got a coach or are you his coach?

No, he's got a great coach, um, Chris Brigham, who was actually one of my coaches on the ski team. Oh, so he coached the US ski team for 15 plus, maybe 20 years.

But how about like, because like people get to this point, right? And to get to that point, like, how much do you feel like Did you guys do a lot of freeskiing when he was younger? Like when he's like—

yeah, well, you got a late start. So he just last year committed to ski racing. Before then, he was only ever part-time, and we actually even had one year we lived in Spain, he only skied 5 days the whole year. Um, so yes, now when I get the ability to or have the opportunity to ski with him, we go freeskiing just because I want him time to ski the mountain.

I hope you're enjoying this conversation with Eric. I found this so fascinating. Like, in fact, that evening I only slept 2 and a half hours because I was just so wired from all the information and ideas running through my head from chatting with Eric. Now, on that topic, if you haven't checked out my website bigpictureskiing.com, I invite you to go over there and have a look. There's a 7-day free trial. I've got hundreds of videos on all sorts of different topics— biomechanics, short turns, moguls, carving, everything, conditioning, off-season training, all that sort of stuff. And I basically download every bit of information I get through these experiences, training, opportunities to chat with some of the world's best, so I can help pass that on to you, so you can also improve and feel your skiing keep getting better. Year after year. So let's get back to the chat with Eric. We're just actually talking now about one-ski skiing again and the fact that Eric does this at the start of every season.

I do it, um, I do it every year. Oh, you do? Yeah, I mean, because if I, if I do it with kids or a group of kids, yeah, then I do it because I actually want to show them.

Do you do it at Park City or Deer Valley? Wherever. What sort of terrain usually?

I mean, if I'm with kids and they're starting to start in it, but yeah, wherever we are. And then I'll show them the progression of like, um, you know, with the terrain, but then you go back to the easy terrain and you— no poles. Yep. So then you get rid of your poles. Yeah. And then you can unbuckle your boots.

Yeah. You just keep adding layers.

Yeah. And actually, that's another drill, is just skiing with your boots unbuckled.

Yeah, totally agree. Because if you're in the sweet spot, you don't need your boots.

Yeah, you don't need them. Yeah, it's just straight down through your ankle and under your foot. And so, you know, sometimes I'll have people unbuckle their boots, and it's got to be like, once you get into like choppy terrain or something, you kind of do need your boots. Yeah, you're constantly adjusting.

But yeah. Yeah, it was pretty smooth, pretty smooth terrain. Yeah, but you should be able to make like perfect arcs with your boots unbuckled. So like at the— like you skied today, do you still like think about your skiing? Oh yeah, like you— I love skiing. Okay, like today what were you thinking about?

Well, today was like off-piste stuff and, um, but even so, like in the off-piste, like what, what like helped? Or like you're like, oh yeah, if I do this, that Actually the Avant-Mont. Yeah, okay, extension, retraction. Yeah, but it's not like— there's not so much time to build up that like GS turn feel, but like really like finishing the turn in mogul, like powder moguls. Yep. And actually like really coming back to the front of my boot. Yeah. And like being quick and Yeah, that's what I was thinking about today. Yeah. But if I'm out there carving, like, you know, just ripping groomers. Yeah. Then I'm like, I really want to make perfect GS turns, you know, be like, oh yeah, that's as good as I could have made it. Yep. Back when I was in the World Cup. Yeah. Obviously I'm not nearly as strong or, you know, and—

When you make a turn, do you feel you're pretty much in entirely on your outside ski?

I mean, it depends on the terrain. The steeper it is, yes. Yeah. But for the most part, yes. Yeah. That inside ski's on the ground.

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Tracking. Yeah. Yeah. You're feeling it. You're controlling it. Yeah.

But all like— like— all to the outside.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I was just today, I was riding up the lift and telling someone about that, like, you know, you just have to be like just 100% on your outside ski. And like, we're right at the lift, I'm like, look, that person's not, that person's not, that person— it was like an intermediate area. That person's not— we didn't see one person actually at all, like, like even close to it. Yeah. And they're all just skidding everywhere.

And so that's actually another drill that's really good. It's such an old-school simple drill, just lift the inside, lift the inside ski. Yeah. And actually makes you complete the turn. Yeah, a lot of people, they don't complete the turn. Totally, right?

They put the inside ski down right when you should be really on the outside.

Yeah, or they just let the— let the— they straighten out the skis. Yeah, they don't— this is something like for my son. Yeah, he's in gates and he's not getting all the juice out of it, all the energy he can out of the ski. Yeah, he lets— he completes— when the juice is coming. Yeah. Yeah, and then he lets off, and then the dead zone— yeah, in between transition edges— yeah, becomes really long. And he'll start the turn because he has nothing else to do. He'll start the turn, and then instinctively he knows that he's going to put his body through the panel, right? Then he's— then got to skid it sideways. Now, and now he knows he's puts his head through the panel. So then actually the skis correct back. Yeah. And then he goes down and then he has to hammer all below the gate. Yeah. And then it just turns into this like choppy, like low pressure. Yeah. And then he's low and late. Yeah.

And you've got no pressure momentum to take the next turn.

Yeah. That's not gonna— it's all part of their process.

So you would like seeing that, you'd be like, right. Like you could literally just do one ski, like that outside ski, lift the inside ski.

Drill is lift the outside ski till inside ski— sorry, yeah, yeah, and lift the inside ski till the turn you feel all the juice out of the ski, and then you put the new one down, lift the inside up, and do the same thing. Yeah, yeah, it's so— it's such an old school drill.

Yeah, but like, but for a good reason.

Yes. Yeah. 'Cause it still works.

Just makes your skiing better if you do it. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool.

But yeah, I have, I mean, other like just fun play around drills. 'Cause my other concept is you have to be the best possible athlete you can be on your skis.

So— Like jumping?

Like jumping.

Like just do it. Yeah, pushing limits of them. Yeah, hopping around.

Yeah. Glen Plake's favorite. Drills called the Charleston, where you're like, the way you like lift your skis.

I'd have to like— no, I know the Charleston. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, and it's just, it's just be a better athlete. Yeah, on your skis. Yeah. Um, yeah, hop turns down the steepest thing you can find. How many hop turns can you do in, in that area? Yeah, yeah.

Short space, do lots.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and then I mean When I was little in Buffalo, we did a lot of hop turns and, you know, at 10 years old, if it was a relatively easy slope, I could actually do hop turns up the hill.

That's a drill I think that's actually pretty important. Yeah, I remember showing that, or just being in a snowplow on a really gentle slope and can you like jump backwards up the hill off the edge, right? Because then you're in alignment to be able to really be strong to deal with pressure trying to push you down the hill, so you can deflect.

Same concept is actually no poles skating uphill.

Same thing, it's like speed skating. Not skating backwards, skating up.

Yes, like literally just pointing your skis up the hill, and it's not a steep hill, but skate up it. If I was a coach, a junior coach, At the end of every practice, I would have everybody have a relay race up and around a gate. Yeah. That's 20 yards or 50 yards up the hill and just be like, go. And then, you know, up, up, up and then around the gate and then you skate down, tag off. You know, even silly stuff like playing foot, you know, snow football. With skis on. Yeah, yeah, in a field. Yeah. And as you just get comfortable, yeah, actually creating energy with this equipment, a big long piece of wood on your foot. Yeah, yeah. And like hopping around and this and that. Like, I literally would just be like, let's groom out this field, we'll make 2 goals, and we're gonna play rugby or football on skates. Yeah, touch, you know, of course, um, on skis. No poles, 5 on 5, and you guys are going to go for half an hour. And it just kind of does a little of everything for them.

Yeah. Yeah, sometimes I skate. We live down on Ranch Place, so we skate-ski along those trails.

Yeah.

And I notice that that helps my skiing, you know, my downhill skiing.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm not a great endurance athlete, but I can go with somebody who's a great endurance athlete on Nordic skis, and if they're not a great Nordic skier, I can easily keep up or go faster because of the efficiency of that, of using the ski, using the ski and the energy from that. No problem. So I always feel better when I go Nordic skiing. Yeah, if I go running, I don't feel good. Me neither. It's probably being close to 50, maybe. Yeah, right.

So what's your favorite, like, So you're skiing groomers. Do you— what's your favorite sort of ski? Do you like, do you like a GS ski still? Because that was sort of your discipline.

No, I mean, like, here in Utah? Yeah, here in Utah, no. What do you like? I have, uh, so I'm a vocal athlete. Yep. Um, so, um, I have all vocals. I have, um, They made a ski a couple years ago called the RTM. Yep. So I have an RTM 81, and now I have a Deacon Master.

I got that one. Yeah, the 72. Mine's 76. Yeah.

And I like that somewhere around 80, 80mm wide. Yep. Give or take a couple millimeters.

Um, and is that because the snow is a bit softer? It's too soft. Yeah, yeah. I take a If you take a 70, boot out, boot out everywhere. So I can't, I can't lay it over. Yeah, yeah.

So like an 80 wide, if it's really soft, I actually don't mind like an 85, 90 wide. Yeah, like your Kendo's.

You, yeah, yeah, you can.

Yeah. Um, but for the most part, you know, as long as it hasn't snowed a bunch in the last 3 days, then that's 76, that's 76 to 82. Yeah, I can lay it over, but in the sidecut, it's probably like 18, 19 meters. Yeah, nice, right? Like you've— yeah, 180-ish long. Yeah, you're not taking up the whole run. And well, yeah, that's part of the problem too, is that, you know, I don't want to freak people out. Yeah, so if nobody was on the trail, I would probably ski 190. Yeah, 25, 60 miles an hour all the time. 25-meter radius.

Yeah, with people, or if I'm skiing with people. Yeah, you've got to get your thrills in a short space.

I can get that feeling, I can get the feeling I want without going, you know, I can go forward.

Would you, would you take the rocker out of those Deacon Masters if you could, or do you like it?

I mean, I'd like to try, I would try it. Yeah, I mean, I've—

that's my only complaint with that one, it just felt like it got a little static Well, they're making skis for the masses.

Yeah. And what we're talking about is the top couple percent of all skiers who are feeling what we're talking about. And so camber ski, we're gonna feel more energy. Yeah, be able to control it. But the other 95 to 99% of people find it easier to when there's that early rocker. Yeah, yeah. I mean, same thing they took out on their Kendo. They used to have more titanal in it, so I could just— yeah, that's rail GS turns on those. I know. And then they took it all out and you can't really— and I can't anymore. I mean, I can still do it if the snow's soft, but I understand what they're doing because they're making a ski that's really easy. Who's buying it mostly, right? Yeah, which I get.

Was that that like when they had Japanese graphics. Do you remember? And just after that. And just, yeah, yeah, that was my favorite one because it only had tip rocker, didn't have tail rocker. And I can remember skiing that at Revelstoke, and they've got some really long groomers down. Yeah. Oh my God. Oh man, I couldn't believe it worked that well.

Felt so good making GS turns on those. And then they were really versatile. I call, you know, it was really my, that was like my Iceman ski. I called corporate outings because I could do anything on it, you know.

I could, you know, you could show off and do it. Yeah, I could do a hip on the snow turn.

Yeah, I could do that, and I could get into powder, get in whatever I wanted. So, so I still actually have those for those days.

But, oh nice. Yeah, yeah, I wish I didn't sell mine. I should have kept it. Well, thanks so much, like, for just taking an hour out out of your time to like chat. Yeah, it's just good because some people can't articulate.

I'm available, George, you know, just text me a text, I'm in.

Yeah, well, you just articulate things really well and you've obviously thought about it. And like, because I can imagine there are people that they leave that to others to figure out.

Yeah, I'll tell you, I mean, who was even more sciencey nerdy? Yeah, right. Or just kept going with that stuff was Bode. Yeah? He's very, very knowledgeable with equipment. He's like a savant. Really? On certain levels, yeah.

Can you give an example of like how, like where you saw that?

Well, you know, he's on the Full Tilt boot now. Yeah. And to me, I'm like, what? Yeah. But then he talks about it, and he talks about like where the energy— like, where is the energy coming from, where's it going to? And he just— he, he really gets it, you know. He actually created the— you know, it's funny because we were both innovators. So like, I actually was the very first person in skiing to double stack because I understood the leverage point. Double stack? Yeah. So basically we had our at the time was called the Derby Flex. But so we had a plate. Yeah. And then I actually put another set of lifters on top of the plate. Yeah. Everyone was just on the plate. Yep. And I was like, well, I'm booting, I'm still booting out.

Yeah. Give me more height.

If I get higher up, I'm gonna have more leverage and not boot out. So I did that. Yep. And that week— literally I was only 19, but just started crushing races, huh? And everybody saw it and did it, and then they created the, the height limit. So everyone's always on the height limit. Okay, but basically I, I added an extra like 15 millimeters of lift. Wow. Before anybody did it. Yeah. And Bode was still a teenager and he like had a fight with his coach because he wanted to do it. Yeah. And his coach let him, and then he went and did it anyway. Yeah. So he, like, he and I had this, like, at the time— what's that? There was no regulation on seg. No regulation. Yeah. No. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, so you're the reason for it now.

I'm the reason. So, you know, it's fun, just side tangent on that also, like, I, I've, I've talked to the guy, the inventor of the, the parabolic ski, and, uh, and he's—

Alain? Yeah, Alain. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, Stenmark was basically the first— like, I don't think people knew that he was on Shape Skis. Yeah, nobody knows that. Yeah, and I don't know, I can't even confirm it, but I heard that basically Stenmark had like— was on Shape Skis. No, they— I mean, he was like one of— he was on a line. He just asked them to make it, and so he had his own skis just made.

But this guy, he was like, if you want to feel like what real carving is like, just put a shitload of lifters on your binding, go really high. He's like, you will not slip out. Yeah, you will just rail. And so it seems to say, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you ever try that really like more than doubles? No, man, because it also became dangerous. Dangerous. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But Bode came up with a lot of stuff, and I think a lot more that I don't even know about, you know, because yeah, a lot of this—

what did he do with his boots? Did he do—

well, he actually was the one that—

oh, he did the Malleolus Punch.

Okay, so he showed me the punch. Um, you know, he had a lot of different stuff going on.

I heard he used to tear apart his liners. Is that true? Like, did he used to cut out a lot of— cut material out of liners?

Yeah, probably. Yeah, yeah, I would do it too, but only on like a hotspot. So I would actually cut them instead of grinding the boot. I'd actually just cut the liner, take a razor, cut the liner, and then so it's just like—

took the pressure off.

Yeah, yeah, pressure off. What size shoe are you skiing in now? 26.5. Still a 26.5. Yeah, yeah. But honestly, I— and so, and the way I ski it is out of the box. Yeah, I don't do anything. No way. I don't punch, I don't— can't— I literally just put a 3mm lifter on and go. Yeah, but your foot's pretty rigid, right? Yeah, it's pretty like, like it doesn't flatten out if you're not— no, it's— I have a pretty big arch and, and also my footbeds are just stock, like it's just whatever's in the boot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I wouldn't mind getting another pair of footbeds made and also I'd like to grind out my toe box because my, my toes are starting to punch.

So there you have it, the Eric Schloepi chat. I think this is one of the most interesting conversations I've had with a skier in a long time. I mean, Eric just delves so deep into all aspects of his skiing and has a wealth of knowledge. I mean, some of my favorite takeaways were the importance of drills and what drills Schloepi thought were the most important ones. And it was fascinating to find out that people had taken his drill into a different sort of meaning, and the meaning was lost. So I think that's a really cool thing. I was stoked also personally to realize the importance of extension in turns and how critical that is as you start building higher edge angles and dealing with more forces. And I think it was fascinating that he really this, this kind of light bulb went off when he was doing tuck turns on much easier terrain. So he sort of isolated that feeling down in the legs. And so I think that's a really good piece of advice, is just like often people are always skiing on too difficult terrain and it's hard to sort of feel what's going on. So if you can take some elements out of the way so you really just get some information into your brain on some key areas that can really lead to a breakthrough. Thanks very much for tuning in to another episode of the Big Picture Skiing Podcast. I just want to do a little plug for myself again. If you're interested, please go over and check out bigpictureskiing.com where I put tons of videos, analysis, webinars, all sorts of stuff on there. If you're really into your skiing, I guarantee you're going to find something that's going to help take your skiing to the next level. Until next time, thanks. This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach, and one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate SkiIQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens, but Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best SkiIQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps, and to be honest, my own highest SkiIQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of turn tempo, so basically your turns per minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, it's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, check out Carv. And a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.