Heather Robilliard Interview (health special)

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Global Skiing Podcast with Tom Gellie. So today I'm chatting with a good friend and colleague from the ski industry, Heather Rebillard. So Heather and I have worked together in the past and are good friends today, and I wanted to chat with Heather for a number of reasons. One, she's been in the ski in the ski industry for a really long time, so has a lot of experience and knowledge and has a very successful business. And then two, just to— we'll get on later on in the conversation, but just some challenges that have come up in the last few years and just how she's approached those challenges and perhaps can share some insight to anyone else out there that may come across these. So really stay tuned, that's going to be a very interesting section of the chat. But first of all, welcome on the show, Heather.

Good morning, Tom. Great to chat with you this morning.

Yeah, you too. So for the listeners out there, can you tell everyone firstly what's your involvement in the ski industry today? So who are you? Where are you today?

In the ski industry, well today— Uh, it's, it's been a lot of years, um, and, uh, I guess probably over 30 years. I, I started, uh, back in Parrish Valley, but my sort of credentials are I'm a business owner of the business Ski Adventures. I'm a Level 3 APSI, or I guess Level 4 APSI ski instructor. Um, back in the day it was Level 3, but then we sort of reset our qualifications. I'm a CSCF Level 2 race coach. I've— I guess that's probably, if you want qualification-wise, that's where I am with my qualifications. Yep.

And what is your business?

The business, Ski Adventures, is a— it's a design vacation business, custom-built holidays to take away singles, families, and couples to ski overseas.

Great, excellent. And you're also involved a little bit in some Ski Canada magazine testing?

Yes, yes, look, it's a very small industry and, you know, great— other great instructors like Ronnie Betts, who I believe you've had on a podcast before, He invited us to be part of it, so myself and quite a few of our team. I think you've also interviewed Fritz in the past, and we've all been together as part of the ski test team for Ski Canada.

Awesome. So, a bit of involvement with mostly nowadays your business, Ski Adventures, trying to bring skiing, a really happy, fun skiing experience to people from around the world. Would that be right?

Yeah, yes, Tom. It's, it's interesting how I think the background for me getting into the industry, um, led from a career actually as, uh, as a jockey. I was one of the first female jockeys, um, in Australia. I loved, I loved the thrill of the sport of racing. It was fast, it was adrenaline. It was, you know, you were dealing with the public. It was a lot of people, and it was a bit of a progression for me moving from that in about 1986 or '80— sorry, '81 I started in the ski industry. So yeah, it's definitely been interesting.

What brought you to working in the snow?

I'd always— well, I'd been a horsey girl. I was an outdoor horsey girl for years, and I did, you know, like every other child, had a pony, went to pony club, and I just wanted something more with more excitement. And there was no such thing as lady jockeys when I first started back in 1972. I was 15. I was still at school, and so I got a job exercising thoroughbreds at a local racetrack. And I just decided that I was going to make sure there was such a thing as a lady jockey. And I got passed along with 3 other girls to race against men in 1979 or 1980, actually 1980. To, yes, with a license to ride against men in Australia.

And so how, so what, where does that go into skiing? Oh, instructing and—

Unfortunately, it was my career, it was going to be my career, and it's a hard, hard, you know, it's up early in the mornings, and it was a hard, difficult life being female in that industry in in those years. And I'd ridden overseas in North America, South America, and really got a good look at the world. I met some amazing people on my travels, and they had, especially in North America, I was, you know, taken into the mountains and I saw the snow and I thought, oh my gosh, this is a whole different world, like I'd never I'd never seen snow, I'd never seen mountains. So I came back to Australia, and very unfortunately, in 1980, I had a ski fall— sorry, a race fall at Rose Hill, and I broke my left leg in 11 places below the knee. So I hadn't, you know, lost the love of horse racing, but I did come out of that thinking, gee, you know, I was pretty lucky and after the rehab I went back into racing, but I lost that— there's something you have where you're always game to take a chance, and I think in high-level sports when you get an injury like that, it makes you that little bit more aware and that little bit more tentative. So I didn't want to have that fear of losing my nerve. And so I thought I had the opportunity to go down in 1980, sort of, so after a year of rehab, horse from the break of the leg, I went down to Parrish Valley and I learned to ski. I went down for a weekend, it rained the whole weekend. I remember it was the most miserable miserable time. But after riding horses, you know, racehorses, you're up at track work at 3:20 AM every morning. Yeah, you rode 6 days a week no matter what it was. So, you know, a bit of rain wasn't going to put me off. And that's when I just decided, oh wow, this is a thrill, like the speed, the adrenaline rush. And I thought, you know, I've got to do something with this. Now, you know, I guess the people who I'd been in the racing industry with, after becoming, you know, one of the first 3 female jockeys, you know, to get a license to race against men. Why would I be wanting to quit at this point? And so I stuck at it for another year, and then I guess it was 1981 I applied in Parrish Valley, actually to the IGA Chalet and the White Spider, because I thought that would be the only way for me to spend a season and really learn to ski. So, that's sort of how I arrived there. And it was interesting, you know, there was a hiring clinic on in Perisher Valley, which was on June 23rd that year in 1981. And I thought, what a great way to learn to ski properly. You know, I could have a week's worth of coaching. And I had no sights of a job at the end of it, because I already had a full-time job. And I did the hiring clinic and at the end of the week I couldn't believe it, I was offered a job for the season. So I had two full-time jobs for the season.

And you kept them both?

I kept them both. And it was very interesting because the original job I had at the IGA Chalet, they were very strict with their policy about not— they really didn't want to have anybody working more than one job. They didn't think you could do it, but I said, you know, my background in horse racing, I was pretty able to do more than one job, so yeah, it worked out.

Yeah, that seems to be something like, I don't know if you'd call it an attribute or something of your character, you know, I don't think lots of work doesn't really bother you, does it? Like more hours and sort of loads, you seem to cope with that pretty well. Would you say that's correct?

Yes, I would. And you know, it's kind of probably— it's interesting the way you're brought up. I don't know, in some ways I think it's good, in others it can be a challenge because I learnt to work hard, definitely. And I learnt never to let people down. I learnt some great life lessons, you know. And this I carried with me through pretty much everything I've always done. And I think sometimes you, as you get older, you think, gee, I could have probably worked a bit smarter rather than that little bit harder. But I'm, I'm always for putting 110% into anything I do. And, you know, look, it's, it's for me to reflect back on my years of teaching skiing. I guess I worked in Parrish Valley. I I took up the full-time job there in 1983, and I worked 13 years in the ski school, and in that time I went through my levels. I found that at the age of 26, most of the younger instructors had been teaching and were leaving the industry at 26 to get into what they were calling a real job, and here was I just starting. So I was thinking, oh, I've got to make a career out of this. This is going to be my passion. This is my passion. This is what I have to do. So, you know, I reflect back on some of the kids that I taught in my time, and I look at them now and I think, wow, there was, you know, AJ Bear as a 3-year-old and a 4-year-old, and Christopher Booth as a 6-year-old little mogul skier, and Jenny Owens, who was an Olympian. So, you know, you've touched the lives of those children and infected them with the enthusiasm that I obviously had for the sport at that time, and, you know, remain friends with them all today. So it's fantastic.

Excellent, excellent. So who were some of your— like, would you say, would there be one or maybe two trainers or mentors that you look back on and think they really had an impact on either your skiing or how, you know, how you taught or became a successful ski instructor?

Yeah, Tom, that's a really good question. There's a number of people for a number of different reasons, and I think you always remember, you know, who you have your first ski lessons with because it's a lasting memory. Getting over your the barrier of fear, putting trust in that person. And honestly, I have to say, working at the White Spider restaurant, there was an instructor by the name of Christian Keller. Now he is still teaching in Parrish today, and he was one of my first instructors. He was so passionate about the experience he gave his clients, and I think I took that with me. He wasn't necessarily one of the most, you know, inspiring skiers that I would look up to, but as time passed, there were different people I looked up to for different reasons. And, um, would you like to know who they were?

Yeah.

Okay, so the standout people, um, early in my sort of skiing, you know, career, and it was very difficult because it was a very Austrian-run ski school, and the Australian contingent was, you know, I guess smaller and not seen as to be nearly as qualified. So I guess my eye was taken by some of the Austrians. There was another instructor, Franz Pickler, who had such a wonderful, lighthearted, fun-loving manner with people. He was a great coach and he always inspired us. He always was smiling. There was never a bad day. Didn't matter how bad the day was, there was never a bad day. And it taught me you can take people out in the worst weather and give them a great experience. So I feel I learned that from him. If you are wanting to know who inspired me ski-wise, who did I look up to and who did I kind of think, wow, I want to be like that, yes, I would have to say in those early years it was a great guy by the name of Hansi Brenninger. And Hansi was an Australian, and I and I figured that if an Australian could ski like that, that I would be definitely able to reach the goals that I set for myself. Because, you know, I could understand, you know, the Austrians were born on skis pretty much, but I really felt I was at an advantage learning to ski. First time I put skis on, I was 24, but didn't come back to actually teaching skiing until I was 26 years old, I had a really good communication with private clients who, you know, had fears of skiing, had fears of speed, and I felt it very easy, and it was a natural role for me to fall into to, you know, to teach skiing.

Yep, yep. And so when you saw like Hansi Brennegger ski, how would you like how would you describe, you know, how he skied that you really sort of caught your eye?

I think it was the fact that he was a skier that looked at one with the mountain. He wasn't an overly posed figure on skis. You know, there were some beautiful skiers, but he was, he had a certain freedom about his skiing. Allowed him a little bit of reckless abandon. But he always— look, I loved watching him on the— there was a freestyle slalom that used to be held, and he was as graceful in the air as he was, you know, on the snow. So I think that that combination of the skiing with the mountain, being one with the mountain— and I don't know if it's, you know, I guess with my horse racing background, feeling the horse underneath you, feeling the snow under your feet. I would say he had such a great feel for what he did. And then as I progressed, and I've always continued, even now at this age, which is 31 years later, I'm still looking for those people who inspire me. And there's plenty of them now, you being one of them, to take my skiing onwards and upwards.

Excellent, excellent. So, it seems like you're really quite good, as you mentioned before, you found that you had this sort of affinity with making a connection with the guest and creating a relationship. And I guess that's probably what really led to you being able to turn this into a lifelong career, you know, keeping clients and being able to instill like a lifelong passion If you were to give, you know, some people, you know, maybe what your— if you reflect and think how you build this connection, could you sort of say it in a few words or a few pointers that would be, you think, are crucial to make a really good long-lasting connection?

Yes, I think I can, and I think number one You have to like people, you know, you have to enjoy being with people. You need to be diverse in the way you listen to what someone wants. So I think being a good listener— it's no good, you know, trying to impart what you know if you're barking up the wrong tree, if you know what I mean. You know, I think you really need to be your client is and what they're wanting to seek from the experience. You know, not, not everybody wants the same thing. And I think that, that to me was a— I think I'm very good at that, and I feel that it's really stood me in good stead as far as building the business as well, because the, the Business Ski Adventures takes, you know, we've taken up to probably had 200, up to 200 people away skiing, each with different needs, but each holiday designed slightly differently so that they can enjoy the holiday they'd like to. So I think that's important.

Mm-hmm. So then any other things in terms of, say, I don't know, the more like right then and there sort of experience with the guest? You feel you're good at with the connection part?

Absolutely, yeah. I think if you've— I think too, just having that background of people, you know, I've been in the hospitality industry, so, and I've taught, I taught, you know, for a few years at TAFE, and I think you pick up on people. So I feel it's, you know, a skill too. You can see, you become skilled at seeing when people are having when they're having not such a great time. And if you can sort of intercept that and be there to make that change for them, you're on a winning combination, I think, you know, with that particular guest. And that's— I think the result of that has been our return clientele over the years has been, you know, upwards of 70%.

Yeah, awesome. So, what about, say, yourself? How good are you at reading your own kind of, am I having a good day, am I having a bad day? And then how good are you at kind of jumping in and perhaps changing that? You know, a day where you're out with people that only like skiing moguls and you're just getting thrown about and you're actually not enjoying it. How good are you at tuning in and figuring out, okay, this is what's happening, that's why I'm in a not a good mood, what can I do about changing that?

You know, it's interesting you should mention that because I've always been a glass half full person, so I never have been a person that would, everybody gets a little bit down, but I've never been a person that would look that way, I'd always look on the upside. So, so for me in that situation, I would take whatever I could out of the moment that was probably the very best little bit out of a bad moment and try and, and turn that away. So whether it would be like you were mentioning, you know, the mogul situation, I would look at that and I would say, okay, I'm not— and I think everybody has bad days on skis. I mean, gee, it's like, yeah, you just aren't always on your game. So rather than beat yourself up, I would, you know, next lift ride up, I'd get to the top, I'd take a good look around, I'd really be thankful for where I was. And I'd look for something very small that was a positive, like, you know, I've learned to appreciate things like the snow conditions, and realize just how many different snow conditions there are as a skier. There's hundreds. And so I'd feel the snow under my feet and I'd go, wow, you know, it's a squeaky snow day. And yes, I'm not having a great day. But how can I, you know, what can I draw on here that's going to improve the way I'm feeling? So I would never give in. I would never give in to that feeling. I would always search for that positive element of the day that I could focus on. And turn it around.

Yeah, excellent. So I guess that brings me to a question, if you don't mind talking to us about what happened a few years ago, or what information you got a few years ago to do with your health.

Yes, well, I've, you know, I would pride myself on thinking that I'd been a reasonably healthy and fit individual for most of my life, you know, from being a jockey for 10 years to then in the ski industry. You know, I've always maintained that I've loved the outdoor life. I stayed fit. I looked after myself. Like everybody, I enjoyed, you know, socializing. I loved a glass of red wine. But yes, in 2015, I think I got the shock of my entire life and I was diagnosed with breast cancer and I thought, no, it can't be me, it must be someone else. And I think that really it's a very weird situation to be in because you never think it's going to happen to you. It's always going to happen to someone else. Honestly, Tom, I'm a really strong person, but it absolutely grips you with fear. It just takes a hold of you and you have to stop your head racing and really, you know, get a grip on yourself. But it makes you really sit up and take notice. So that was 2015.

So how did that, how did you become like, did you notice something was up? was it just a regular checkup? What happened?

Oh, no, no. Look, I'd had regular checkups from the age of 50. I'd, you know, done what the recommended was, you know, go and have a mammogram every 2 years, and I'd actually had one in the October before the May that I was diagnosed. So that's why I thought they couldn't possibly have this right. But actually, it's interesting. I had had a— been in the hot tub and I'd slipped on the hot tub in Canada and I'd landed sort of on my chest and I realized that there was a slight ridge on my chest and I thought, "Oh gee, I hit the hot tub hard," and I didn't think much of it. And then I realized that, that was probably January, in March that ridge was still there and I thought, "Gee, that's strange, it's not sore," but I thought I should probably go and check it out. So it was a self-diagnosis, I found it myself and I was absolutely— the reason I was so shocked is because I, you know, had the regular mammograms and then on doing the research I found out a lot and I started to read from the minute of the diagnosis and I really feel that that put me in a great position to make some of the decisions that I went ahead with.

Okay. You found out basically that you have breast cancer, and then that moment you started to research. Why did you start researching, and was there something about you weren't sure of how current medical sort of systems support or get you going, get you like rebuilding or dealing with something like this? Why did you start researching straight away?

I think you're— because it all felt too rushed for me. You know, you're given a diagnosis and you feel okay, and then it's like there's a big rush to have everything done. So, you know, you need the regular treatment, which is you cut it off or cut it out, and then you poison it, and then you burn it, and that's the regular treatment for breast cancer. I didn't realize that when I— when you mentioned the word breast cancer, that there's about 18 different types of breast cancer that fall under a full range of a scale. I just— I was just amazed. So I had to contain the fear because you really right away go, "Oh my gosh," you know, your head is going a million miles an hour. But I, after reading, and I think in a way I was lucky I was in Canada because it gave me the chance to sort of get my act together before coming back to Australia and decide what I was actually going to do. Rather than just going to the one doctor and getting the diagnosis and then going with what the recommendation was, I decided I was going to interview 3 different surgeons. I was going to interview a couple of oncologists and a couple of radiotherapists before I made my decision. Now that's a difficult thing to do when you don't think you've got time on your side because you think, oh my gosh, you know, where's it going? Is it spreading? But you have to, you have to really take control of the situation. As much as you are gripped with fear, and I was, I decided that this was going to be worth it.

Yep.

So that's what I did. I read medical journals, I read medical papers, I found out as much as I could, and then I came back Australia, and after talking with 3 doctors, and you would think that after discussing and they have all your test results, that you would get 2 out of 3 would probably have the same, yep, this is the what, this is what we do. Well, 3 doctors, I got 3 different opinions. And I was like, oh, wow, now really confused, you know. So 3 doctors would do 3 different things. And so I decided that I needed to speak with also to the oncologists and I did go a little bit out of the realm of the Australian system and I'd read about a special test that could be done called an Oncotype DX test which was available in the USA and Canada and I asked one of the surgeons here if I could have that test and what it is is they send tissue sample back to the United States. It takes 3 weeks and it will give you a score out of 100 as to the likeliness of a recurrence for your particular kind of breast cancer. Yeah. And also to what your percentage of, you know, success with chemotherapy will be, and I was blown away when I got my result.

Yeah, and what was it?

Well, my particular tumor would have been responsive to chemotherapy by 1.8%.

That, like, there was a 1.8% chance that it would be effective, basically?

Yes, yes, it would be effective. And I thought, gee, that's a lot of, that's a lot of poison to be putting into your system for a 1.8% chance. So yeah, I just thought, no, I'm going to— and it was, it was a really thorough process I went through. I, I finally decided, I, I went down, I, I met some great doctors, I had some great discussions. And I think that if you can put your fear to the side and really chat through it. And unfortunately, I think probably the most important thing that women don't know in, you know, about, you know, you see the billboards, you know, women, have you checked your breast? Have you had your mammograms? Is the billboard should be saying, you know, women, do you know your breast density? Because I think that is the one of the most leading and contributing factors to whether or not you may or may not be diagnosed with breast cancer. And for the general population, I think, you know, the mammogram is a free service for all women over the age of, I think, 50 years old. But a mammogram isn't going to show up breast cancer on a woman's dense breasts. so that's where an ultrasound is a much, much more effective way of finding that out. And I think if you got 10 women in a room and asked them what their breast density was, they wouldn't have a clue. So I think—

Needs to be a bit more knowledge, education about knowing that sort of side. So I mean, the first thing that, you know, I'm kind of wondering is like why Did anyone tell you why you ended up with breast cancer, not ovarian cancer, or, you know, another type of cancer? Why did they tell you why you had breast cancer in this particular spot? Or what— and if not, then what do you think contributed to these cells getting cancerous?

Well, this is a great question. And I really think that this was part of the reason I decided to do the research because I was just like a number along with everybody else. You were just put under an umbrella and you just had breast cancer. You don't ask, you don't get told how you get it, you don't get told what might have caused it, and there has to be a reason. You can't just treat something without understanding. And, you know, if you do a lot of reading, you do read that, you know, there's things like stress and a bad diet and being overweight and drinking too much alcohol. There's all these things, but that's not just specific for breast cancer. That's, you know, so I had to—

It's pretty broad still, isn't it?

It is. I had to delve quite deeply into this, and I really did find some very, very interesting— I I had, I had a meeting with Dr. Karen Phelps from the Integrated Medicine in Sydney. She had been president of the Australian Medical Association and had swung around to a more alternate look at the way things are approached. And I found that my time with her was invaluable as far as this in my decision-making. But I brought in a few other people to help me make these decisions. One of these was a holistic physician, a molecular physician. Now, in the naturopathy side of things, there was also acupuncture. And I honestly think that it's probably been more The alternate side has given me the answers, Tom, to that question that you were asking.

So what do you think, what do you think then, if you were to kind of nail it down, what things contributed to that area of your body getting sick?

It was described to me as a bit of a logjam. Like in— as if you would see a river or a creek flowing and the logs stop the flow. So the flow in my body had been blocked due to toxins, a buildup of toxins which had not been able to be released through the pathways that they, that they go down. And they thought the reason for this was that the phase 2 of my liver was not cleansing correctly. And this was— this was all came about through naturopathy and, you know, acupuncture. Yeah. The doctors or the medical side don't really go into this side of it with you. This is all your own research. And I really, I really find that it's an invaluable bit of information you get Yeah, my team, my team hasn't sort of disregarded— I still think, you know, your team includes your surgeon, your oncologist, your radiotherapist. And of those three, I think I chose, you know, selected or selected the best three for me, and they were all females. And then I went to, you know, Dr. Karen Phelps, who was the integrated medicine specialist. And then I had a naturopath and a holistic physician. And then I finished it off—

Just to steer you back on with this, so that there's this— you— these people have helped you maybe discover there was a logjam starting in the liver. Why, why was there toxins built up in the liver? What's that? Because I— you're a pretty healthy person. You, you stay active, you eat pretty well. Why? How did it get How did it get to that point? Yeah.

I think that the answer to that question was the, the, the system in the liver hadn't been able to release and let go of the toxins. Now when you say toxins, there's, there's toxins in a lot of things that we are unaware of. And I think if you look at the general population and the amount of sickness that is prevalent, you know, we have to look at, I think, a lot of the food we're eating and the way it's prepared and the way we eat. And I've been a bit diligent since the 2 years in changing quite a few of those things, and I honestly believe that Look, I was like the next person, you know. I didn't— I had a healthy diet, but how healthy was it? You know, how was I eating organic? No, I wasn't. Should I have been? I'm not sure. It doesn't— I don't know whether that's one of the causes, but it can definitely eliminate one of the suspects. And I think what it really is, is we have toxins in everything. Marketing of product is just so well done. It gets people in. You wouldn't think twice about buying a tooth whitening toothpaste because you want white teeth.

Yeah.

But do you really have a look at what's in that? In— what are the chemicals? If you can't read what's on the back of it, it's not going to be good for you.

Yeah.

And I really feel that if you took this approach with a lot of the things, you know, our skin is our biggest organ, and we rub lots of stuff on our skin and what happened to me I think is that because of the type of breast cancer I had and as I mentioned before there's many types, mine was an estrogen-driven breast cancer which means that you're adding estrogen to your body but it's a fake estrogen, it's a— So synthetic? Synthetic estrogen. So synthetic estrogens mimic the real thing, but they do a lot of damage in there and they overload the system. And I truly believe this is how my, my breast cancer was caused.

And, and, you know, because we've lived in the same little apartment before, and I remember you know, coming back to your very hard-working ethic, you know, many hours in a day and you don't mind doing that. Do you think there was an element of that type of stress that maybe didn't allow you to process or deal with these toxins that were building up?

I totally think so. I— look, just because you can work, you know, 17 hours a day doesn't mean you should. And I'm very blessed in one way that I don't suffer from fatigue or tiredness, but in another way, I've really understood now that I think, number one, sleep is more important than we give it credit for. And your sleep patterns have to be spot on. I really think it's a combination of all the things. I really feel that Having a good night's sleep, which is with the circadian clock, you know, in the, in the more the old days, you know, when the sun went down, the lights went out and they didn't have electricity. That's when they went to sleep and they woke up when the sun rose. And I think we, with life and the busyness of hecticness of life, we get out of that practice and we'll work late into the night because the phone isn't ringing or the demands aren't on you. And I do think that's very— it does work to be detrimental against your health. And so I think the combination of good sleeping, good eating, regular exercise, and that doesn't have to be— you don't have to be at the gym every day. You just need to be taking yourself outside and going for a walk and doing something every day for yourself. And I do think that being more mindful of the situation you're in, don't be thinking ahead to what's coming or what's past, be much more in the now. And I think that that has been one of the great lessons for me anyway.

Yeah, because how are you going now?

I feel now I'm going along a great path. I'm still reading. Everything I can, everything that comes up on it. I'm, I'm very interested in breakthroughs and listening, but I do listen with a very open mind because, you know, I'm— I think for me, if I look at how I feel now, I feel like I did back when I was in my 20s. And I think that's pretty good because now I'm 60 and I've I think I feel and probably generally, you know, look the best I've looked in a long time. And I feel it's attributed to the changes I've made in those, in those areas I was speaking about, like the sleep, the healthy eating.

Yeah. Yeah, I think it's really keeping things that may be possibly toxic through skin or through oral hygiene, oral stuff, just keeping that down or minimized to nothing.

Look, I truly believe that, you know, what goes into your mouth and on your skin, it does have an effect on your body.

Because I was just thinking, you know, because since our chat when you opened up about this a year or so ago, I became really fascinated in the fact that It seems that, that the, not all the time, but some of the time, you know, you're diagnosed with breast cancer and all they do is focus on that spot and there's no real look into the why you ended up with that. And even to the point where some people are talking about tumors being something absolutely necessary in the body, as they're like little waste storage units that are kind of created to help, say, your liver that's overburdened with toxins be able to store some of these extra things away. And your body actually feeds a blood supply to this tumor to, to perhaps try and process it and, and eliminate it. But if you keep driving in the things that cause the toxicity to be created and overburdened your system, then of course that tumor is just going to keep festering and growing and then possibly turn malignant. Would that be fair to say?

You know, Tom, I think you're very spot on here. It's quite an— it's quite a difficult thing to, to put together, but you're definitely on the right track. My thought on that is pretty much the same. We— I was quite shocked at our lymphatic system and actually what our lymphatic system does to, you know, keep everything moving and to, you know, hold, you there's a, if there's a little bit of badness somewhere, it'll hold it and it'll work on it to disperse those toxins. Yeah, I do know of a couple of other girls who decided totally to do nothing. They decided to— and that's a very, very, very brave decision. And it's a very— was pretty calculated. They decided to change their whole lives. So they changed everything about their life. They went away, they meditated, they stepped out of life, they took themselves out of life and they decided that they were going to try and see if they could heal their cancer totally on their own. And you know, from what I've heard so far, that's what the body has done. Their tumors actually disappeared.

It's pretty amazing.

It was very amazing. So I do think that it's interesting because if you can get over the fear side of it and get your head around it, there's a lot of things you can do to, I think, increase your longevity. And I think it's very worthwhile, very worthwhile.

Yeah. And I know that this podcast is aimed at skiers. I know we're sort of delving into, you know, a subject bit away from that. But I was thinking, I don't know your thoughts on it, but in relation to skiing, I think a good ski instructor is always trying to find the cause for someone's, you know, issue in their skiing, whether it's, you know, they can't hold grip at the end of the turn. And, you know, a good ski instructor, I think, will go over like all the basics, the fundamental things that you need for for good skiing, you know, how you stand, how you tip the ski on its edge, how you kind of, if there's any guiding on the arc, any rotational kind of balancing going on, and then control of pressure. And you know, you'd go through in your head all those things first, rather than perhaps just jumping to conclusions of, you know, like, oh, you're skidding at the— you know, you're losing grip at the end of the turn. Oh, I've been told it's— this is the reason. And you just Band-Aid them with that one thing, and this always works for everyone, you know, like, I do this one drill and it'll fix you. And that's never usually the case, is that there's like— a good ski instructing is looking at that whole person and, and all the areas that need to be working to make that whole system work. And usually you go through those and things start improving, and then it almost becomes so obvious what the real cause is of the lack of grip, for this example, being at the end of the turn. Would you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, Tom, you've just, you've hit the nail right on the head there. It's absolutely the diagnosis, and it is, it's looking at what the cause is. What is the cause? And then going back and, and dissecting it and giving yourself the time. And look, sometimes, as you know, you know, you've got to take even a competent skier backwards before they can go forward.

Yeah.

And I totally feel that with this diagnosis, for me, I had to go backwards before I could go forwards. And there's a, there's a, there's a very big similarity there with the two, I think. And yeah, you put that in a really nice way.

Yeah, and I think, I mean, do you, would you agree your ski instructing, you know, over the years as you got better became more of this type of approach? And even to the point of maybe saying it was more relaxed and you weren't worried about getting this person super good super quick, it's like let's just give them some really fundamental basics so then over the years that they just naturally everything is going to start getting better and easier and I'm going to buy, you know, the third year I've, you know, skied with this person for a week, I'm going to be able to just, you know, give them a couple little tips and they're going to be able to really change their seeing. Yeah, would you agree with— does that sound true at all with how you've maybe developed your ski instructing over the years?

Oh, Tom, I do think it has been, and I actually feel, taking it right back to the early days, I felt that the process was a little bit too rushed. And just like I felt like with the diagnosis of breast cancer, I felt that the process of learning to ski was, they were trying to rush, you know, you'd have someone for an hour's private lesson and in that hour you had to, you know, make them walk away after spending their money feeling like you'd made a significant improvement. And then I decided that no, what's most important is forming the relationship, understanding how you can take that, that person and work with where they want to get with their skiing and spread it out. And I honestly believe that's why so many of the guests have come back year after year after year, like some of them 20 years have been skiing with us to continue their ski improvement journey. And it's, it's exactly what you said. It wasn't a huge dose of trying to put the Band-Aid on and fix it. You know, I remember one guy saying to me, "How long is it gonna take before I can carve this turn?" And that was on straight skis, and I said, "It's gonna take quite a while. Like, it's gonna take years for you to get to the point where you can carve with that ski the way, you know, we are." Yeah, and, um, he was quite comfortable with that. He said, right, and he's still skiing with us today. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fantastic.

Yeah, I think a lot of people could probably, you know, gain a lot more enjoyment out of their skiing if they took that approach and really enjoyed all the building blocks and the process of getting to that point. I know that's, that's a really, um interesting thing for me is finding out, like this last season, an area of weakness in, you know, how I moved, and I hadn't realized that it was there. And it's been so fun, challenging, and rewarding to just focus on that one area that I realized was, you know, missing from my movement capabilities in skiing, and how much of a difference it's made a year later, now that I've worked on it, not only on snow but off snow. And so I just think that, you know, perhaps as a bit of a takeaway, you know, people like you said should start tuning in to the now and what they're feeling in their bodies in skiing and in, and in health. And perhaps, you know, find some areas that are perhaps you're underperforming or maybe you're not doing so well at, research, find out how you can improve that and then, you know, don't be in a rush, start working on it and seeing— give yourself a bit of a goal a year or so down the track to see what you can achieve.

I couldn't agree with you more, Tom, and I can't— you know, now you've put it that way, it's really interesting to see the parallel, isn't it?

Yeah, totally.

Diagnosis and the how you have to, how to fix the problem. And who would have thought, you know, 30 years ago that just a simple ski boot and the way you stood in that boot could have so much effect on, on the performance of your turn and your structural alignment. And, you know, that's what you're dealing in. And I think it's you know, we're able to produce some fantastic skiers. I look at some of the kids skiing today and I just think, wow, the technology, the knowledge, the time spent on taking the skiing through those steps, as you said, and people being more aware of their body, their, you know, what they have to work with. You know, everybody's made differently. You know, I'm not going to be at 5'2" the same as someone who's 6'3". But how I work my body and what I do, and I think, yeah, it's a great parallel.

So to kind of wrap up our conversation, couple of things. First of all, what would you say would be the easiest takeaway for people, you know, whether they're of a younger age or older, that they could perhaps do to perhaps check or self-assess, you know, their health to maybe, you know, ward off or be prepared for if something like this happens?

You know, that's a great question, and I think in today's hectic life, people can give themselves a few excuses as to, "I'm feeling a bit more tired than normal, but that's just the workload I'm under," or, you know, "Look, I just really don't have time to make myself that healthy meal. I'm just gonna go and get takeaway." So I really think it's up to the person, but if I had to really think, like, and I've been this through my mind a lot, Were there any signs? Was there anything that really I could have seen, but I, but I overlooked? And I feel that— I think the excuse of, I've just come through a busy winter, I'm not feeling at my peak, I'm not walking with a spring in my step— pay attention to those signs. You need to pay attention to the signs in your body that aren't normal because you can have a spring in your step all the time and you can be feeling alive and clear and sharp in your mind. So there's a, I think, a combination of things that you, you put, maybe put down to just a busy lifestyle or work's getting on top of you that you, that then mask the symptom.

Yes. So let's say don't ignore it.

Don't, yeah, do not, do not ignore it. If you're feeling more fatigued than normal, and you know, a lot of people will say, gee, well, why would you go to the doctor if you're not sick? Why would you go? They'll find something wrong with you. Well, that's true, but be— be— be aware of your body, being more aware of your body, both health-wise and, as you said, for the ski performance you want, you're just going to get a better all-round result 100% of the time.

Yeah, absolutely. And because I think, you know, I remember a couple of seasons when I, you know, especially working in like America where you do so many hours and you just think, oh, but it's only for 4, for 5 months, I'll get through it and then I can have a break.

Yeah.

But you got to really be careful in those periods because, you know, it can just take a couple of months of really hectic, stressful, not eating well, not sleeping well, you know, not spending much time for yourself, but it's all for your guests and everyone else that it can get beyond, out of your control and can manifest in other ways.

And Tom, you're right, and you know, like I've spoken to so many other women in the same situation as myself from all walks of life, and I was, because I was, I was I wanted to know, you know, was there anything that— was there anything you felt? Was there anything that stood out to you in the lead-up to your diagnosis? And, you know, it was the one thing that came up in the conversation 100% of the time was fatigue.

Yep.

Yep. And I thought, gee, that's very interesting. Very interesting.

That is very interesting. Yeah. So we're— We've got to be careful with that.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, thank you so much, Heather, for chatting with us today and sharing some of what you've been through. I thought it would just be really helpful for people to, you know, hear your story and, you know, I think, you know, you're doing so well now. We caught up the other day and I would agree with what you said about, you know, you're looking and feeling as good as you you were in your 20s, and yeah, I think that's just credit to you and the fact that you've really taken matters into your own hands and researched and looked into why and how you can look after yourself, not rely on chemo or something bombing the crap out of your system.

Yes, and honestly, you know, there's There's definitely, you know, horses for courses, and I, and I do feel in some situations, you know, that could be necessary.

Yeah.

In my situation and for me, and as I said, you know, there's so many different scenarios, it was definitely not the right choice for me. And, you know, I'm more than happy to, you know, in fact, I think I really enjoy helping other people as well. I think that's part of my makeup. And I've been really, I felt a very nice part of me has been able to assist people who have been diagnosed since myself, and they've turned to me to ask those questions, and it's great to be able to know that you're able to help.

Yeah, that's lovely. That's really, really good. Yeah, love that.

Yeah, so.

Okay, well, I've got to get on my bicycle and head into work now, and you've probably got to get some work to do, but thanks so much again.

Thank you very much, and I hope to have a moment with you when we can go out kitesurfing together because that's my next thing I'm going to be doing.

That's right, yeah, can't wait.

Awesome. Okay.

Thanks again, Heather, and we'll speak soon.

Thanks very much, Tom.

Bye.

Bye.

This episode is brought to you by Carv, the digital ski coach. Now, one of the features I've had the most fun with all time is simply the fact that Carv tracks every single turn you make. I treat it a bit like Strava, so at the end of the day it tells me exactly how many turns I've done, and those numbers keep adding up across the season. So last season in Australia, I had a few days where I was doing nearly 2,500 turns, and my legs were tired, but it was really cool to try and have that number there motivating me, and I'm quietly working my way towards my 1 millionth turn with Carv. So the other metrics I've been diving into lately, and these are new for this season, are very unique, and these are turn corridor and turn radius. And I don't see many skiers using them, but they tell you a lot about the shape and flow of your skiing. So the turn corridor shows you how far you're traveling across the hill, or the time almost between apex to apex, and how long you're taking to transition. While the turn radius measures the actual arc you create once you start the turn. So these can be different. You can have like a very wide corridor, say 18 meters, but a lower turn radius, or the other way around. So when you compare the two, it opens up a whole world of experimentation, and it would be a bit like a race coach will set different types of race courses to influence a racer or skier to change the timing and mix it up. So I encourage you to look into this if you've got Carv and play with it and see if you can manipulate it, because it's only going to improve your versatility. So I keep my Carv on my boots every single day because you never know quite know when like a change in technique or a new ski resort or skis will show up in the numbers, and it's great at the end of the day being able to check that, or even after the fact. And I'm really looking forward to the day I open the app and I see turn number 1 million So if you want to explore your skiing in a completely different way, check out Carv, the digital ski coach. And thank you, team, for sponsoring this episode.