Klaus Mair Interview

Hello and welcome to the Global Skiing Podcast. This is Tom Gellie, your host, and it's been a little bit of a while since I posted an episode, but I'm back again now in the middle of the Southern Hemisphere winter, and this week I've got Klaus Mayer. Is that right? Mayer? Mayer?

Actually, you say Mayer.

Mayer, okay. Klaus Mayer. From Austria on the other line. He's actually Skyping me from New Zealand, so welcome, Klaus.

Thank you, Tom. Thanks for getting in touch.

Yeah, yeah, it's a pleasure. I've kind of heard of you mostly through the internet because you're quite an internet sensation, and you've got some cool kind of products out there in terms of online scheme structure as well as a pretty long career in, uh, in the skiing world. So I thought, um, if we could start out first, if you could just give us a bit of your background, like where you started and what got you into this industry.

Yes, um, thanks. Um, I come from a little town in Austria called Schrunz and, um, started ski instructing at age 16. Then studied sports in Vienna, and after university went to— after I finished university and finished my Austrian Level 3, I went to Mammoth, California. First just wanted to go for a season like many do, and then decided to do it for longer. So I did 6 winters in Mammoth, and in Mammoth was also where I filmed my first instructional video, which I published in 2008. And that's where I pretty much decided that I want to make this my full-time profession. In the summertime, I was coaching some ski racers. I was their ski tech coach. And through them, we then decided that we wanted to train more in the summertime. And that's how I came to New Zealand, to Wanaka. I had a friend who was running a very successful race program at TravelCon, the TCRA. And so I brought my athletes into the program and worked for them. And then, uh, after 2 years of doing that, I then— they asked me if I wanted to run the Snow Sports School, and that's what I've been doing now for the last 8 years. And, um, yeah, so skiing 200 days a year. And now I spend the Austrian winters in my hometown again and coach on the Arlberg and in the beautiful Montafon. And the summers I spend at Treble Cone and in Wanaka.

Great. And do you have a family?

I have a little daughter, Tia, which is 5 years old, and they used to come with me but couldn't make it this year.

Fantastic.

Fantastic.

So, I mean, you're one of a few kind of managing to make year-round successful kind of profession out of this ski industry. Do you attribute anything to being able to do that, to kind of having a decent job in the Southern Hemisphere and the Northern Hemisphere winter?

Yes, I definitely think it's a great thing if you can ski year-round and if you really do something if you can really specialize in what you love to do. And I think that I saw that in my own skiing and in my own teaching, that it definitely makes a difference if you can do it year-round.

And I mean, did you feel like— are you a very driven person? Did you have good management skills beforehand? Did you see anything that maybe separated you from maybe some of the other peers, your other instructors in Austria, that meant you were able to keep doing this now for, I don't know how many seasons you're in now?

Yeah, I think in general, if I look at my team here at TC as well, I think instructors in general are very creative and very— if I look at all the ideas that come out of my team of instructors, I think the ones that keep doing it, they had to learn to be creative and find ways to make money and to make a living with what they— with the job that they love to do. And that was also certainly one of the moments when I, after university, I started to be a PE and a mathematics teacher. And then I went to Mammoth and I really loved it there. It was awesome. And, you know, my parents spent a lot of money on my university and I had to explain to them every season, guys, I I really want to go back to California and do another season. And so one of the things that drove me to make my own instructional was certainly also to figure out what can I do to share my skill, what I believe I was talented in, with more people and build a business out of it and actually make it pay my bills year round. And so that was one of the first things then. To decide to produce my instructional DVD at Mammoth.

Yeah, so was there anything that, like, did someone say, "Hey Klaus, you should make a video and sell it online"? Like, how did that all start? How did the SofaSki School start?

No, it was pretty much just my own idea. When I started doing it, a lot of my colleagues looked at me and thought, "What are you doing now, and you think you're special?" I think it came more from just, I really like the job there. It's quite different to teach in the US compared to Austria. In Austria, you have customers for a whole week, and in the US, you had to, in a way, work much harder to move up in the request list, to make a living with it, to have return clients and all these things, to get decent tips. So in the US, I often had 3 or 4 different lessons on one day. And I thought that was a really good opportunity for improving my teaching. And I tried to teach a similar lesson but changed one or the other thing and tried to come up with a way of how I could help people most efficiently. And I think through that, I then thought it's actually what we do, the mistakes that we deal with, the bad habits that we try to change are very often the same, and they're not that many. And so that's where the idea came up that I thought it would actually be fun to make an instructional video where I show the 3 most common bad habits and my solution on how to work on them, how to change them.

Yeah, cool. So I guess if people haven't heard of the SofaSki School, do you want to maybe give a bit of an outline of of what it is and who's it for and that sort of thing.

Yes, so it started with that video that I filmed at Mammoth, which is an interactive application where I first have a chapter where I show what not to do. So I demonstrate the wrong, the bad habit, and then if people think that's them, that if they recognize themselves, they can then get to the lesson that should help them with that.

Yep.

So that was that project that I did there at Mammoth. I filmed that just with a friend of mine who filmed me for a week and then edited all myself on my laptop and then put it on YouTube. And I think in 2008 I had 100,000 hits and was the most viewed ski instructional on YouTube at that time.

Is it up? I read somewhere it's up around 3 million hits or something now.

Yeah, I think it's still— I think the, the instructor— that one lesson I put up is still the most viewed one.

Yeah.

But I, I think— and that's a good thing as well, if you think— if you have a look how, how many, uh, how much material is out there.

Yeah.

Uh, and I think it's— I thought about it myself that only in 2008 with 100,000 hits I was, I was the— in the lead.

Yeah.

Shows, shows how much, uh, more material is now available to people, which is a great thing, I believe.

Yes.

So that more people actually can get educated and find out that there's a lot more to learn about skiing. So, and same, same with that blog as well. I really like the idea and I think it's a great thing to do.

Yeah.

So that was that first DVD that I made, and then out of that I sold my first DVD. I burned every single DVD on my laptop and I sold it, sold it through my self-made website in combination with a free ski analysis. So people could send me their ski videos and I would and then make a little clip, edit some lines, and write them an email on what I think they should work on and what they should do.

Yep.

So that was the beginning. And then out of that, I then grew a website where I now offer online ski analysis where people again can send me their videos and I make them an edit. And I offer training planning. I offer now my videos also for on demand. And I also now do ski improvement camps in Austria as well as New Zealand, which I have grown quite a lot in the last 5 years and which have been very successful as well.

Yeah, cool.

Excellent.

So now if someone comes along to your website, they basically can sign up. Is it like a monthly thing? Is it just a one-off, like depending on what they think they want to work on?

The way it works is that people can buy my DVD, and if they buy my DVD, they also get access to my member area where I post videos and articles and try to add additional content for my customers. My website is basically like a ski school that is online, so you can get, you can send me your ski clips and I will send you a training plan. You can buy my videos together with the analysis. I can tell you, watch this chapter, have a look at these exercises, and the videos, the way I do the analysis is that I, with VoiceOver, and I record their video and then do frame by frame, do slow motions or cut out body parts. So it's, it's, uh, it has developed quite a bit over the last years how I do that. And it's basically running, offering the same products that a ski school offers, only just, uh, for the sofa and from my desk.

Yeah, yeah, cool, cool. So I guess, uh, that leads me into asking you What would be your kind of top favorite drills and exercises? Like, what are your kind of— what are your main go-tos that seem to really— either you are really good at explaining them or adapting them to the student, or that you seem to use a lot?

I think in general, the one thing that I find myself doing is that I don't do a lot of different drills. I think that for the customer, just getting the head around the drill from coordination and knowing what to do when takes a bit of time. And only after they got that covered, they can then start to focus on the technical element. So when I'm teaching myself, I really probably just over a day pick maybe 3, 4, 5 exercises depending on the situation. And if I had to pick one that I, that I start with very often is that leaving the poles away and starting with doing the knee touch, doing the hands forward in the initiation, doing the Mike Holt Superman drill, which I also covered in my first DVD. So I prefer all drills that make things simple. I think as soon as it gets too complicated with moving the poles here and there, It quickly gets too much for people, I have the feeling.

Yes, yes, yeah, definitely. So are there, like when you yourself go out and ski, are you yourself working on any particular elements of your skiing?

Yes, certainly. It always changes. We do quite a bit of video here when we run our camps at Treble Cone. Every morning from 9 to 10, we train with the coaches and then the camp starts the tent. So we take quite a bit of video and that gives, gives us some good information on what's going on, where we maybe got a little lazy and what we should, should change and work on. I think for myself, I, I don't have much time right these days, so I usually have a couple of runs in the morning where I can focus on stuff. So usually I do a lot of side sleeping, uh, doing things really slowly, starting out just with, with a lot of side-sleeping, working on the edging, trying to check where I'm at with my balance, and then letting that go into normal turns.

Yep, yep, certainly. So I mean, have you seen, do you feel your skiing has changed, you know, over the last 10 years very much?

Yeah, I think quite a bit, yes, definitely. Yes, and I hope it still changes. I don't know, it's sometimes, you know, the I have the feeling I'm skiing better now than I did 3 years ago, but sometimes, you know, when you get older, the reality gets a bit distorted sometimes.

So in terms of that, what would you say? Do you feel like your pressure control, your touch on the snow, like your timing, what are you like? Are you more relaxed? How would you say that it's different, that it feels better?

You know, I think it just has changed quite a bit as well in the last last years, in my time from 2000 to 2008 in Mammoth, I was skiing mainly on my slalom skis, and I skied on my slalom skis on the big powder days and on just all the time, more or less. And now I'm actually skiing more on my GS skis. I think that, yeah, for me personally, it just Yeah, what I want to say is that it changes quite a lot also with what kind of skis you're skiing on a lot.

Yeah.

And at that time, at the beginning, my biggest interest was really in cutting the short turns as hard as possible and getting the short turns as quick as possible. And now I'm actually, I think, might have to do with age as well. I'm looking more for a ski that I can use a little more universal. So I like to do my short turns on my Giant slalom skis and try to get a lot out of them and have a ski that I also use on the big powder days with my clients and do short turns just as well too.

So do you do, like, how, I guess this leads me into equipment, stuff. Do you feel, um, like, do you do much modifications to your, to your ski boots? Um, to your, you know, you talked about you, you're now skiing more on a GS ski. Um, yeah, are there any things you do with your equipment that you find is like really kind of crucial in making it easy to ski well?

Um, no, actually not that much. I have to admit that I always just try to ski with whatever I got as good as possible. And I'm taking the boots the way they are. I have a great boot fitter in Schruns, which does a really good job. And with the skis, I'm not making any big adjustments, any big changes. I use with the customers, we try to we do use the different skis quite a bit to help them discover where they're at with their balance. Oftentimes I think the skis that people are on dictates quite a bit how they do certain things, and if you see something going on, we then take them to the shop and put them on a different kind of skis to create, get the result to help them find the balance in a different spot. But for me personally, that's the one thing that I'm not doing a whole lot. I'm not playing with the material a lot because I was always told when I was a child, a good skier can ski on anything. But I'm sure there would be a lot for me to learn in this area, but I always try to focus more on the pilot and not to do too much with the equipment.

Yeah, I like that. That's good. It kind of, I guess, keeps you versatile too because you're always, you know how to adapt quickly to whatever equipment you're on and make it work. So when you were training as a ski instructor, were you at the Bundessporthain?

Yes, I did my training in Austria. You do your Level 1 and 2 are done within the state and then the Level 3 is done in the in the ski academy in St. Christoph and did my training there and I had a great time there.

Did you have any kind of mentors or trainers that were really influential to you over that time?

Yeah, there were quite a few. If I look back, I think, and if you talk to other instructors, and I think that's an interesting one because a lot of our customers often don't realize it actually that how much of a difference it can make to ski with a certain coach. And that's also what we try to tell them in our camps, that they get the opportunity to ski with an outstanding skier. That is, uh, that is something that is quite special. And I then show them— we have a ski tech evening, and I show them the pictures of my level, uh, level 3 in my terrible ski suit there, uh, in the group shot. And in that group shot, for example, there is Norbert Geißler, who is who was quite an inspiration for me. And I was lucky enough to have Michi Walkhofer, Heinz Schilchegger, and Reiner Salzgeber in my group as well, 3 World Cup guys. And I got to ski with them for 6 weeks in a group of 8, which was definitely for me quite an eye-opener to be able to ski with these guys on the Arlberg. And so there are a lot of my colleagues as well in the camps here with like friends of mine that you ski with and you watch each other, like Andreas Spätl. It's always amazing to watch guys like this, what they do. You stand at the same slope and then you have your go. And I think that's definitely how, on a certain level, and also for our customers, you can learn if you get a perfect image.

Yeah, definitely, definitely. So do you have any, uh, like stories at all from times of you when you went out training? Any particular, particularly challenging days doing your Startlizenz, your Level 3?

Um, yes, I mean, it was, it was definitely just, uh, at the beginning I was just super excited. I did, uh, in Austria you can get the Sondervermerk, which is something for sports students if you if you pass certain ski courses, you can do the level 3 in half of the time. And that's how I got into that group with the World Cup guys because the World Cup skiers can also do it in half of the time. And just realizing then that you're now skiing in a course with the guys that you have watched on the television a few weeks before, like Heinz Schilhecker, he just won the slalom World Cup at that time. And afterwards did his Level 3 ski instructor course. So, you know, I was quite starstruck at the beginning. And then a few weeks later, you find yourself in the bumps and the coach says, let's do some bumps, poles in front of the body, and let's do it in pairs of two. And he asks Hen Schilchäker to follow me down the bumps. And I was like, you know, I should go ahead. So really, yeah, you know, I was all— was a bit proud. And then after After 3 bumps, I already wiped out and said, "Heinz, why don't you go ahead?" Things like this that definitely were very special for me. But in general, it was just great training. In my instructor's course, the one thing I think I discovered most was that you need a lot of— A lot of times my technique fell apart because I just got too much, too blue, too much lactate in my muscles. So I worked a lot on strength endurance that I was actually able to ski not just 50 turns well, but 100 turns well.

Yeah.

Okay. So that was a big discovery as well, just to make sure that you have enough power to last and stay clean.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, because I think that's, that's one thing I have a lot of respect for, kind of, the Austrians, is the discipline in their skiing and the kind of, I guess, the challenging exercises once you get to that high level of really varying the task. So whether it's, you know, down something steeper or bigger bumps with, you know, more challenging balance position like you mentioned with the poles and that sort of stuff. I think that really helps to kind of make you a very adaptable, all-round strong skier anyway.

I think I like drills that give you instant feedback if you are able to do them or not.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. So do you use any particular bumps— sorry, drills in the bumps that you find are really helpful to give that kind of feedback?

No, I mix it up a lot in the bumps. I like to also for the bumps keep it fairly simple, help people discover what it is about, how to get the feeling for it. A lot of times in my work really, when people come to me and say they want to improve their bump skiing, I often find myself making a step back and first sorting out certain things on the groomer. Totally. To help them discover these things first before we then go into the bumps and try to apply it there.

Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. So you're a ski instructor in Austria, but a ski school director in New Zealand. How does your role change? How do you go with the two different positions you hold?

It's quite different in what I do, but quite similar because it's about the same thing. I really like the change. I liked my time in Austria where I run the camps myself. I coach the camps in Austria. And I do a lot of private coaching. And then at Treble Cone, I have a team of 80 instructors, and there's obviously a lot more managing going on. I'm still involved in my camps here in New Zealand as well, but it's, for me, it's a really interesting situation to not completely lose touch with the coaching and the skiing myself, but also to have the chance to to change a few things that I always, yeah, to help my instructors do their job better. And I think that's what a good snow sports manager should do, just to facilitate them so they can do their job as good as possible.

I have heard from a few people that they really respect you as a ski school director and think you do a really good job. So I think that's pretty cool to hear. You don't often always hear it, you know, you always hear the complaints come in. So I thought you should know that, that you have a good reputation.

Thanks for passing that on because in the daily business, you know, you sometimes, you know, you have to make sure that everybody follows the rules. So it's not always pleasant, but I think it's really key as a, in a snow sports school that I played a lot of football when I was younger. And I think the team is, sometimes you can have a team of great players, but it still doesn't work. So I think working together well and respecting each other and looking after each other are very important things. And I think, I think it probably also helps that they know that I'm just a ski instructor like them as well, and that I do the same job and that I understand their situation.

Yeah.

And I think what we do at Treble Cone there, we have a lot of really cool things going on that are very much about the sport and about helping people get the most out of the, out of skiing and TC is a great mountain, and if we tell people if you can ski Treble Cone, you can ski anywhere in the world, and I think that puts the Snowspot School in an especially important position because if we help our customers get the most out of the mountain, then they will love it even more. And so I think it's a great mission that we have on the mountain, and I have a great team.

Yeah, it seems like Treble Cone does have a really strong culture about it with the Rookie Academy there, your ski school, and it seems like that's definitely one of the, I don't know, top spots to kind of go if you really want to be a better ski instructor.

No, definitely. It's quite special just to be here because there's so many good skiers, instructors from all over the world, and ski racers. We have the Austrian ski team here. We have 3 skiers that choose Treble Cone as their training ground. It's great to be in a place where so many good skiers are, for sure.

So are there any skiers at the moment who you're kind of looking at and kind of inspired by?

Yes, definitely. I really like the way— you know, I watch a lot of ski racing, and in Austria we The way we ski and what the ski instructors do and what the ski racers do traditionally was always very close. And so there's a lot of influence, I think, in both directions, which is also, I think, part of the success for both areas. I really like the way that Marcel Hirscher skis. What Ted Ligeti did in the last years was amazing. I love to watch Michela Shiffrin, who I believe is one of the cleanest skiers. And I'm really excited to see now Anna Fenninger, Anna Faith, come back in the coming season because the way she skied before her injury was very special as well.

Anything in particular with those skiers that you sort of like, you're really drawn to?

I think in general to watch them in the last years, how they, you know, the big discussion about the change of the skis and how they then adjusted to it and how with the, like especially in GS with the longer, with the 35-meter radius skis, how the ones that technically skied cleaner and more efficient were then also the ones that were successful. How they all adjusted to that, I think was great to watch. How How Hirscher is skiing the slalom turn, how dynamic they are, how just in general all the guys from, like Kristoffersen, mixing it up and watching them apply different techniques and different skill sets and be fast at it. I think that's great to watch these days. I think ski racing is especially interesting in these last years.

Yes, yeah. So you're— but nowadays you don't do much coaching as much as just ski improvement and—

Yes, no, I'm not working with ski racers anymore, but what we do, the way we do our camps as well, I think is I have a lot of coaches in my team that have a ski racing background or that were coached themselves, that know how it is to work on their skiing on a very high level. And what we do in our program, we use a lot of video and we try to offer recreational skiers the professional coaching that the athletes get. So it's not necessarily a feel-good program where we tell them after every second turn, you're doing great, you're already doing much better.

Yeah.

But it's like, you know, it's quite an honest approach where we tell them that's what we think you should change and now let's go out and see how we can achieve that.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, um, is there anything new coming up for you in terms of, uh, like a new DVD being released for SofaSki School or, uh, and any new camps or what?

My goals now for the for the next years. I'm really excited about my camps, the way they run here at TC. We just had 3, have 3 weeks that were sold out. We have another 2 camps coming up in late August. I'm currently working on some new material because both of my DVDs are both quite long. So my first DVD is over I think it's 80 minutes and my second DVD is over 2 hours. And in the time that we live right now, people often don't sit down and watch something for longer than 2 minutes. So I'm definitely looking at producing some shorter materials, some material that I can push more through my Facebook page and maybe also through an app and hopefully to then get people to take the time and watch something that is a little longer, because I think that you don't really understand concepts and learn skiing with some quick tips. Skiing is very simple, but to really change things, you sometimes need to sit down and listen and watch.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah, take some time.

Yes. So then sort of coming to a close, do you have any kind of advice that you'd say to new instructors? So like, say to the, you know, the 20-year-old version of you back in the day, of what to do, you know, in the next few coming years in terms of training or places to go, or any just words of wisdom?

You know, I think they should definitely ski more like me and less like them.

Sorry, I just had to say that. Yeah, can edit it out.

No, I think it's the one big thing that I always watch is that instructors often rush from one certification to the next. And I think the main thing, or one of the very important things, is to gain experience, to do the job, to get your hands dirty, to teach little kids, to teach beginners, to get as much experience as possible while upskilling and going for different certifications. I think I have a lot of applications that I get every year for Treble Cone of instructors that have spent a lot of time in courses but never taught a lesson. And that's someone that is for me really hard to hire because If I love a job, then I need to show my future employer that I have done it and I try to get experience at it if it's freelancing or shadowing or, you know. So I think that's a key thing. And I think for, if my son would say he would like to become a ski instructor, I would want to make sure that he knows what the job is about and that it's not just about working on your own skiing and becoming a great skier, but that the job actually is the love of teaching and dealing with people.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's good, good. And then to the older instructors out there who've been doing it for a while, any advice from you to keep going?

And, you know, Tom, we both know that you have to be careful with the older instructors. No, I think it's hard to watch sometimes how instructors get treated by the industry. And I think the respect where I come from, an older instructor, an older Austrian staatlicher was someone that you looked up to and that really from everybody in the village, in the community, got respect. And I think that's something we should really think about how we can what we can do to keep it like this and getting paid a certain amount and making sure that the position of the ski instructors and the role of the ski schools on a mountain gets strengthened, that ski schools are not just moneymakers for the companies, but that the tourism industry actually realizes how important the job of a ski instructor is and how much we do for our guests. I think that's sometimes hurts me a little bit to see the development it took in the last years. And I think there's a lot that we could do better there, if you know what I mean.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

You know, it should be that you can make a living as an instructor, and it should be that what we do gets promoted and gets the respect and that people take lessons again and that lessons are affordable as well.

Yeah, definitely. So is there anything else you wanted to talk about or mention before we kind of close up the episode?

No, just come and ski with us at Travel Corner or come and see me in Austria. And I'd like to thank you, Tom. Like I said before, I think anything, all these things that we do to promote skiing is great. And yeah, go out and ski.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I guess you could probably say the conditions are pretty good in Treble Cone right now, aren't they?

Conditions are amazing, yes. We have over 1.5 meters of snow in the saddle. The conditions are really outstanding right now. We have a slightly longer season this year as well until October 2nd, and I have two more camps coming up and have a great snowspot school. Wanaka in general is a great area. If you have never skied in New Zealand, have a look at it and it's highly recommended.

Great. And so if people want to get in touch with you, should they do it via your website or Treble Cone Ski School website or what?

Yeah, people can get in touch with me probably easiest through sofaskischool.com. There's also information about the camps that I do and my email address and contact form, and that's probably the fastest way to get in touch with me.

Brilliant, perfect. Well, thank you very much for taking the time out and chatting with me, Klaus. It was really good to meet you, and you know, by the sounds of it, you might have, you know, an application form from me in the future to come work with your team. Sounds like an awesome team, really. You get that across really clearly. It just sounds like you develop a good culture around your ski instructors, and so you probably get lots of good returning people and a good environment.

That would be great, Tom. We focus a lot on training and on sharing ideas and working together. And I think that he would be a great addition to that.

Fantastic. Okay, all right, well, thanks very much for your time, Klaus, and all the best for the rest of your season.

Thank you very much, Tom.

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