Reilly McGlashan in New Zealand Interview

Hey guys, this is Tom Gellie coming to you from Wanaka, New Zealand. I'm here with my good friend Riley.

Hey guys!

Riley and I are rooming together for this period of training over here. We're working with the Rookie Academy. It's going to be a great couple of months for Riley and great 3 weeks for me. We arrived a couple of days ago and we've been up, we've had a day of skiing. Snow conditions are not too bad, snow quality is really nice, we just need a bit more snow. But what I thought this time was we'd perhaps share a conversation, as this is what usually happens. We, you know, we watch videos or we see each other skiing, we ask each other questions about what we're trying to do and work on. So that's what this episode with Riley McGlashan is about. So to kick it off, Riley, what, what have been some focuses in your skiing or your training over the last, you know, since, since I last spoke to you on the podcast several years ago?

Well, uh, seeing like what we've been chatting about the last few days since we've been here, um, has been a big focus. And I'll go in a little bit more in depth about what that is as we've been talking about external external cues. And I remember a few years ago at the Trainer's Coordination in Australia where you were talking about external cues, and I didn't really know what, what the definition was, but I knew that I used a lot of them for my own training. And when you brought that to light, I started realizing that that's pretty much the only type of exercises that I use. And since then, I've been trying to develop ways to make external cues a bit more easier to comprehend for, you know, guests.

Okay, so explain to me first, what is an external cue? And for those people that don't know, why, why the use of an external cue is useful? So first, what is it and why?

Well, simply put, and hopefully I won't get roasted by some of the technicalities from all the external cue scientists out there, but You know, basically an external cue is something that you can reference externally from your body. So, you know, your hand touching your knee, you can externally see those things happening. Or like lifting your foot off the ground, you can see things that you can give yourself a reference point externally. Whereas an internal cue would be, you know, can you feel, you know, your glute or your glute engage, or the, the heel of your foot while you're closing your eyes, imagining different things.

So move your feet away from you, you can't actually measure like how far away it is relative to where you started. So yeah, external cues help you actually measure success and how well you perform the task.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, um, yeah, essentially That's kind of an external cue and an internal cue, the reference between the two. But yeah, why I like those a lot is because of the, um, when I— you can set parameters with guests and you can give them the parameters that they have to, like a set of rules for the external cue, and that lets the guest or even myself when I'm self-training myself understand if I'm accomplishing the goal or not.

Mm-hmm. So like yesterday, sort of pretty much one of your first days back on snow for the Southern Hemisphere winter, can you give us an example of an external cue drill or exercise you used to get yourself, you know, back in, in the right spot or achieving what you're trying to achieve?

Um, yeah, I did, uh, like a poles over the shoulder drill where it was pointing the poles down the hill.

Yep.

And that gives myself an external reference to where down the hill is and roughly where my shoulders are facing. So that's, you know, just a little—

Yep.

Example of something that I did yesterday.

Yep. And straight away, could you tell, like, were you a bit out of, like, was there one side where you noticed, oh yeah, wow, I'm definitely not, I need to focus a bit more on It was a little bit tricky yesterday.

I was more worried about dodging rocks that I didn't get to super focus exactly in what I was doing. Yeah, unfortunately. But hopefully this coming week when we get a bit more snow, I won't be so worried about the skis.

Yeah, yeah, you can focus more on it. And so you use a lot of drills with poles?

Uh, with and without poles.

Yeah, yeah.

Heaps of different, different variations. But the biggest thing is giving, giving the— making the parameters happen, like setting the parameters for the exercise and giving the external reference of how the exercise is accomplished so that they can— so that people can know if they are actually doing the drill or not. Because I do a lot of self-coaching, and those are how I figure out Like, I don't need video to do an external cue.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, I don't, I don't need any film, um, for an external cue that I've— because basically you can, you can see if you're accomplishing the task or not. And, um, that's what I really like about is that when I teach people and they know the parameters, if they're accomplishing the parameters, they know they're doing the exercise. And if they're not, then they can really self-assess and understand that they're not doing it. And then we can go from there and see why they're not doing that exercise and give them a few little tips here and there to help maybe let them move in the correct way to actually do the exercise properly.

And it seems a lot of those drills, when I've watched you doing them, they help to kind of block out a certain part of the body from moving excessively to almost force you to start feeling movements in other areas. Um, so then, yeah, that blocking out part, yeah, kind of helps them be able to notice achieving these parameters, like, yeah, getting their skis across the hill, but Their shoulders do not go across the hill at all.

Yeah, well, that's the— yeah, all the different types of exercises out there, obviously, to correct a specific, you know, deficiency in a movement. So if it's whatever the exercise is, that's the— is trying to block out the, the error that that person is making in their skiing. So whether it's, you know, if it's upper body rotation and they're twisting their upper body around, then then the exercise to help block them from twisting their upper body back and forth across the hill is what it's trying to cut out.

Yeah, yeah. And it was interesting when we were in Jindabyne, and you know, I did one of those presentations at the brewery, kind of talking about the importance of like movements in the joints of the body and getting people to be aware of how to move that. We had a good conversation where that's kind of half of it. The other half, you could be the best mover, but if you put yourself in really poor equipment, like your boots, that can basically just undo all that good work. So there's a combination of both, and I know you've been really into boot fitting lately. So what are some of the things you've discovered through, you know, understanding and studying, you know, boot alignment, boot fitting over the last few years.

Yeah, well, the, you know, the— what you were talking about at the, um, at the indoor presentation is really good and valid for creating different movements and body awareness and all that, but then we're stuck in a parameter of locking our ankles in a, in a fixed position and locking certain things with the ski boots that— and obviously we need ski boots to have leverage on a big long plank of wood and steel underneath our foot so we can slide from internal rotation to internal rotation on the arch of one foot to the other, which is not very natural, for one. But if our foot or body gets locked into a position that we can't actually move correctly from, that becomes an issue. So we block the movements that we need, or the easiest possible place to do the ski movements. So, you know, if you're bow-legged or if you're knock-kneed, or if your boot actually pushes you into a bow-legged position or a knock-knee position, then you're starting out already in a place where you're not going to be able to achieve the correct movements, or either get too much edge grip or not enough edge grip. You know, put your knee in a weak position, or either way, and it directly affects up the chain for knee injuries and back injuries. And so what were—

what over the last few years have you discovered you need to look for in a boot or modify in a boot for your particular anatomy?

Um, well, I've had to really adjust the cuffs a lot, so bringing the— bring the cuffs in as far as they go.

Yep.

Because I have a very— I don't have much— a very high tibial varum, um, and very straight, straight tib fib lower down.

Yeah.

So where the boot fits, it's very, very straight. It's— and it's much straighter than the Dalbello boot naturally comes.

Yeah.

So I've had to bring that in a lot personally for my, for my leg.

And you're just looking for the tibia and fibula to basically sit dead center in the cuff.

In the cuff, yeah, yeah. And then with my footbed on my right foot, I've got a little bit of forefoot varus, which is— which I've accommodated for in the footbed to help, you know, let my foot pronate from a neutral position, not stuck in pronation.

Yep.

And, you know, the malleolus is kind of a bit big on my foot, so giving a little bit more room around that.

Yep.

To help not block my foot from, from moving so much. Yeah, allowing my foot to move correctly, not blocking it from not being able to move.

So that'd be your inside kind of— yeah, ankle bone. Yeah, yeah. And so you just grind?

No, I just punched it.

Punch, punch a spot so it sits in there and it can actually move. Yeah, to the inside.

Cups my to my anatomy, you know. Yeah, not except I don't need excessive— it's just the right amount of everything.

Like, if you could, if you could design the perfect boot for you, how would it feel around your ankle and foot?

Um, just even pressure everywhere.

Even, just dead even pressure. No spot with a lot of pressure, no spot missing, just dead even.

Yeah, even pressure everywhere. Yeah, and so that's what a boot should feel, but nice and firm, like tight and— yeah, and firm obviously, but it shouldn't, um, have any pressure points like on your ankle or in just one point, you like over your navicular or, you know, sixth toe as well. If you're having pressure points on in different parts of your feet where all of a sudden your feet are starting to get sore there, then you won't want to move that way in a— in the way that your foot will get sore, and then you start doing compensation, compensating movements.

And so, um, because I know you went over and did the course with Harold Harv, the boot fitting course, um, what I think was really interesting that goes a bit beyond a lot of, uh, places is, is testing out on snow changes to your boots. So you guys all actually adjusted your boots with the cuffs way out, way in, canting out, canting in, and then did like very simple flat, almost flatland kind of drills where you balance and you got to actually feel how you would compensate with too much lateral support, too much medial support, like inside support.

So was that a really good learning Yeah, oh, it's awesome to do that, that type of thing. It was a really fun course to be a part of, to see all of the different aspects and how much a boot can affect the technique and how to look for whether it's the boot or it's actually the person's technique. And they kind of go hand in hand. Yeah, with each other, you know, the technique and the setup that I don't think that they can They can be separated really, now knowing what I know.

Yeah.

The thing is, it's hard to understand it until you actually do these things and see and play with how much it can affect the way you ski.

Yeah, right.

To really get an understanding if you need to change or if you don't need the change.

Yeah.

And without a proper assessment of how all the different ranges of your foot and the calcaneal eversion inversion and dorsiflexion and plantarflexion range of movement tests and where your center of mass of your knee sits, and how much, you know, tibial varum you have, and if you're, you know, the center of mass of your knee, tibial plateau, where that sits, and all these different aspects that get measured. Without having a proper assessment and seeing how it affects your skiing, it's really just guessing. Guessing, yeah.

And hoping, yeah.

Guessing and hoping that you know, that one plastic thing fits your foot and your anatomy correctly. And sometimes it does, but it's not really that often.

Yeah, yeah. Because you ended up with your staff in Japan and your guests. You did that. Would you say that would almost be one of the first things? Yeah, checking with all of them.

Yeah, well, a lot of my— a lot of the guys that we work with in Japan in our ski school, I set them up having a look. The problem was this year in Japan I didn't have all the exact equipment to be able to do all of the stuff. Like, if I had all the equipment, I could have done more things. But yeah, so that's going to be the next year process, is to try and get all the equipment to be able to modify every aspect. I only had, you know, a limited set of things to be able to modify boots with.

Yeah, okay.

So obviously cuffs are very easy to change.

Yeah.

And then if we had a boot with plates, then I could create canting on that, but I'd have to get someone else to router the, the, um, the toe and heel piece to make it fit properly. Yeah. And then I did buy footbed makers, so I can make, but I didn't have a, you know, belt sander or, you know, anything to shape them.

Yeah.

Or the workspace, so I actually couldn't make any this year.

Yeah. So on that topic of footbeds, how would you describe your footbed and the purpose of it?

Yeah, my footbed's pretty minimal, but it's just to set up my calcaneus in a neutral position and the forefoot in a neutral position in relation to the calcaneus.

Yep, just so you're starting from the middle.

Yeah, so it can either supinate or pronate. If it's stuck in pronation, then you can't pronate anymore, you can only supinate from, so, or vice versa. So making it into a, yeah, setting your foot up into a place where it's not going to be blocked to do those movements, because those movements are very important in skiing.

And so do you feel under the arch of your foot, is there much support under there, or where do you feel the—

I feel contact, but it's not like I haven't built up the arch to be like a blocking, hard, rigid thing.

Yeah.

It's not.

Yeah. It's more adjustments in the footbed, adjusts from your heel bone. Yeah. And the very front of the foot. It doesn't really mess around with the middle of your foot, does it?

No, not my one. No, it's very nice and soft and allows me to use my foot.

Now, there are other things, other equipment things you over the years have modified, like your poles or particular choice of skis lately?

I like skiing on every ski, really.

Yeah.

It just depends on what I'm doing. But mostly when I'm teaching, I am teaching on a Salomon ski because I don't ski extremely fast when I'm teaching, and when I'm— when people are trying new things out for the first time, obviously you want to do it at a slow speed. So a slalom ski allows me to exaggerate the movements at a slower speed so people can see, see them. Yeah, easier. Yeah, that's kind of the only reason. Like, if I go free ski by myself, which I don't get a lot of time to do, then I'll ski on anything.

Yeah, like whatever, whatever I'm gonna go do, I'll go choose the equipment for that. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, yeah, the ski that I really want to have in Japan this year is the Kendo. Mm-hmm. Something 90 underfoot, like a 177. Yeah, be good, good in the trees, good in like kind of cruddier, bumpier snow as well.

Yeah.

Um, it's not super wide where— and where you're gonna be just doing big tank turns everywhere.

And what, over this time in New Zealand, have you got any kind of goals or like focuses in your own skiing that you're going to work on?

Oh, always. But that's what— but whatever, whatever the— whatever I'll be teaching on the day will be my focus for the guests. Yeah, you know, so every time you do the demonstration for the So, you know, the people that we'll be training will be obviously a big focus in doing the exercise correctly.

Yeah.

So it's, um, it'll be hard to say until I see the group. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. But then, you know, on days off, are there things you're gonna, you know, looking over video from your last season and that sort of stuff, you know, what, what, what are some, what is maybe one thing you've picked to go, right, I'm going to work on that?

Trying to make mistakes look good.

Aha. So just tidying things up.

Yeah, but it's more like everyone makes mistakes. There's no— I've never seen anybody ski around without making mistakes. But I think skiing is a little bit of an art form as well, in the sense that, you know, if, if, um, you know, when you do make a mistake, if you let that mistake flow into something good and, and you make that, you make that, um, mistake but make it look good at the same time, so it, it doesn't— it keeps flowing and there's no, there's no like, oh yeah, something way out of whack. Yeah, just keeping the flow. Yeah, that's, that's That's the something that I'm going to try and be working on. It's not necessarily like a really technical thing. Like, there's obviously lots of different technique-based things that I do work on.

Yeah, but there's an overall arching kind of like—

yeah, once, once all those things— yeah, once all those things, uh, for— because, you know, it's never-ending with technique. So yeah, one thing after the next, but making all the little tiny mistakes that you make in between all of the techniques and all the movements flow into one another and make the mistakes look good. I think that's an art form.

And you got to, we were chatting when we had coffee earlier about, you got, you and some friends got some time in Japan to ski with Richie Berger.

Yeah.

And how you really enjoyed that. Are there any particular things you gained or, you know, noticed from Richie or, or whatever that you're going to utilize now?

Um, skiing with him just consolidated a lot of my ideas in skiing in general. Yeah, so it was good to, you know, ideas that I had about skiing. But the one thing was that he does use a lot of drills that are external cues, and that's what was a big consolidation for me. We did a lot of exercise that I hadn't, hadn't have done before. They're all new, a lot of new ones that would, that I pretty much did the first time in that session. Yeah, that we were doing. And, um, yeah, it was, it was really cool to see that a lot of that stuff was external cue-based. Yeah, given, giving parameters and trying to accomplish that.

Within those parameters.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was—

so even after skiing with him, you didn't need him to go, hey, am I doing this right, Richie? You just knew because you—

if you don't accomplish the, the parameters set, then you know you're not doing it.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's— that's why I have been using those external cues for a long time, because they do let you know if you, if you know the rules around that drill Yeah. Then you know if you're doing it or not.

Yep.

And that's a big— because that's how I train myself all the time. So it did give me a few different exercises to think about that I'll use. But the consolidation of how, you know, he did his training session was—

That was kind of one of the things you— Really gain from it. Yeah, yeah. And like you were saying, in how long did you ski with him for?

Just 3 hours.

3 hours. And how many drills would you say you did?

Oh, it was like 2 to 3 drills a run. It was a lot of stuff.

Yeah.

So he just went, he just kind of powered over a lot of information quickly.

Yeah, yeah.

So it wasn't really, none of the drills were meant to be mastered. They would just show something have a give a go and then move on to the next thing.

Yeah, yeah.

So it wasn't, it wasn't like a really in-depth of each drill. Yeah, I think, um, the— yeah, I don't know how much everyone else picked up from it, but for what I did was that the parameters of the external cues for those drills and how they can be applied and practiced after.

Yeah, yeah, cool. What was I going to say? We just were chatting a bit about my skiing yesterday and the video, what we saw. And yeah, you were just sort of, you basically, it was really good. First of all, you asked me what my goals were before picking apart my skiing. Which was nice. I said, it's fine, go for it. Uh, my goals are more just to be versatile. And I was asking you because I was interested to hear an outsider's point of view on what you saw was perhaps missing, or, you know, what you would see if you could add to my skiing that it would make it more dynamic or more— or easier, or achieve some, you know, performance tasks. So that was really cool, and you pointed out that, yeah, I just tend to flex my knee and get my hips back a little bit too early.

Yeah.

And so what would be, you know, because a lot of people these days are trying to ski, you know, low, in this low position. So what was your reasoning for giving me, you know, the focus of maybe don't let my knee bend and my hips drop back that early?

Yeah, just because it was kind of happening right at the biggest, you know, right in the middle of the turn where the most pressure is coming on, which is where you're going to get the most type of rebound from the ski. So if you're dissipating force from there, so if you're flexing, you're taking away pressure from the outside ski gradually, which means that the ski will never fully engage and get you a huge amount of rebound, which is a smooth way to ski for sure.

Yeah.

But the thing that you said to me before is that you wanted to have more snap.

Yeah.

In your skiing.

Yeah.

So if you resist that force with a longer, stronger position for a split split second more, the ski will react. As long as the center of mass and your body is in the right position to line up the forces over the outside ski. Yeah, if you're in the right position, obviously, technically. Yeah, but if you, if you allow yourself to do that, you'll get a bit more rebound from the ski because you would be structurally in a better position to resist the force, or like, you know, balance against it. I should say not resist it, but balance against it. in a stronger position.

And so, yeah, it was awesome, and we had a look and really helped me to see, yep, that's exactly what I'm gonna go out tomorrow and work on. Would you, now with this external cue kind of focus of this chat coming up, could you think of perhaps one way I could incorporate an external cue or an exercise that is that has got parameters set to it to help me achieve that?

Yeah, so I guess doing some J-turns and traverses, but, you know, it's kind of like a power stance.

Yeah.

So wide, like cowboy, and just really shortening the inside leg and lengthening the outside one. Yep. And keeping them parallel, obviously, but shortening one as short as you can in a J-turn to as long as you can out there, and just feeling and seeing the, the leg length and just practicing that movement of shortening the inside leg as well, and letting the inside leg flex and then the hip move, um, forward and in.

Yeah.

And not, um, back and in. Back and in.

Yeah.

Yeah. So inside knee touching the chest.

Yep.

Outside leg, as that hap— while it's wide, letting the outside leg remain long.

Would you almost say, like, for me to almost feel it, like over-exaggerate how straight and long that outside leg would be?

Yeah, you could do that for sure.

Yep. Yep. Okay. And then I'd know What would be a reference to know perhaps that I've got it right?

Yeah, so I guess, you know, these are kind of sensational— sensation things though. But if you're doing it slow, you can always check and look down at your leg. That's an external thing. You can reference for yourself how bent your leg is.

Yep.

So obviously you have to take it pretty slow.

Yeah.

Safely while looking up the hill first.

Yeah, yeah.

But you can see, so I like checking. You can always check, um, your body position, and you can— when, when you're doing like stalk turns, you can look down and see if your tip's on the snow or off the snow. These things you can, you can double-check whether these exercises are correct as long as you're doing it in a safe way. So I'd suggest looking down your leg and seeing how bent it is. To first get an idea, get an idea of visual, yeah, yeah, reference that as where the feelings are, and then you can, then you can start gauging the feelings a little bit better.

Yeah, knowing when it's right, but just double checking with the, with the leg.

Yeah, would be the biggest thing. Yeah, the inside knee touching the chest. Um, that's another reference. You can see how far away your knee is from your chest.

And the interesting thing was, because, you know, you brought up equipment versus technique before. How would have you— because we discussed, do you think there's anything in my boots that's causing me to do that? What made you think no to the boots?

Um, I'd have to double-check exactly, but there was nothing that stood out with the, with the fore-aft alignment of the alignment of the boot to think that it was a boot issue, because obviously sometimes having Too much forward lean will not allow people to extend their— or vice versa, you know, not allow the, the person to have their leg as long as it can be.

Yeah.

While staying centered over the ski, it can either then lever you too far forward or lever you too far back.

Yeah.

So having a forward and the appropriate amount of forward lean for how much, how long your tib fib is, how long your femur and how long your torso are, will affect how much forward lean you need.

Yeah.

Um, and then also the range of movement that you have getting into a squat position will also affect, um, what type of setup you'll have depending on what you want to ski. So if you want to flex a lot at the transition, like say in the moguls, and still stay centered without getting back and not like collapse at the waist or different things like that, you'll need to set up the boot exactly right.

for that, for that type.

Yeah, and for those, those 3 measurements, the tib-fib length, femur length, and torso length, and then also how much you naturally can squat, you know, because that will have like to do with the femur heads.

Yeah.

And all those different anatomical differences from person to person.

Yeah.

Of what's possible for that person, so that has to be taken into consideration as well. Yeah.

Yeah.

But I didn't see anything, like, you have a good range of movement when you squat.

Yeah.

You can squat all the way down and you can extend. You have a very good awareness of your body. And I didn't notice when you were from side on that there was any type of too much forward lean or too little forward lean.

Yeah, yep, yep.

I think it just looked to me that you were just like—

Like a timing—

Yeah, timing. Timing issue and just giving in and Flexing, giving in and flexing a little bit too early, or—

yep, yeah, yeah, letting the hip drop back as that happened. Yep, yeah, nice. Um, and so we were just looking at, uh, Martin Guggenegger, yeah, video of him before, and you were pointing out some things that, uh, perhaps we can put a link up to.

Oh, there's no link.

Oh, there's no link.

Okay, this is the last— this is actually the last copy of it in the world.

Oh really?

Yeah, I got it, I bought it in Japan on like a random VHS. Yeah, VHS, but it was on a, on an, um, I don't know, Japanese eBay type thing.

Oh really?

Yeah, secondhand.

Really?

It took a lot to find.

And it's of Martin Gunner, who's an Austrian top Was an Austrian top demonstrator. Yeah, yeah, he's passed on now. But, um, what, what is in this video?

All right, so this was, you know, I've, I've seen clips of this video before and it's just extremely, you know, fun mogul skiing to watch.

Yeah.

And I wasn't actually sure what it was, to be honest with you, because it's all in Japanese, so I didn't know what the video was about. I just knew there was moguls in it and that's kind of why I wanted it. It ends up being a full instructional one, which I have no idea what they're talking about, but I do—

you can see, you can externally see the—

yeah, you can see the exercises and you can, and you can just make up your own interpretation in your head.

But yeah, what were some of the things you liked, like the exercises or, or specific things you're seeing in this, in Martin's skiing, um, that appeal to you?

I mean, a lot of the exercises are pretty standard exercises that I've, you know, that I do with guests and I've seen a lot. So the exercises were not, it wasn't anything new or like breakout. Yeah, but the way that he skis was really why I bought it, was just to see more of his free skiing and see how he moves. And also the thing that I'm really impressed with is just his range of movement in in the moguls. And that's really why I wanted to, to see it a little bit more in depth, was just how, how much range he can get with his legs actually, and how much his legs, um, move against his torso. It's just incredible. Like, his— when he's in full flexion, his knees can be nearly all the way out to his chin, and they can be— and his tips can be facing like nearly 90 degrees across the hill.

Yeah, he's not, not back Really?

Yeah, and also just like his— he just has an incredible range of movement. Like, as, as the skis are moving one way, his body can be moving another way.

Yeah, with more range than you see.

Yeah, with more range than I see. Like, obviously that's what we were saying is an anatomical thing. Like, he's probably— his, his, you know, femur heads are probably well built for going into a deep, deep flexion.

Yeah.

And then he also has very good rotational range, proportions in his tib-fib, femur, and torso. Yeah, to be able to do that. Like, another guy is— who had really, really good range— I'll have to— is Jean-Luc Brassard. Yeah, he's a— he won— what was it, 19— was it '98? But no, no, 2002. I can't remember.

An Olympic Gold or a World Cup Olympic gold.

Yeah, but he's another guy, like, if you watch his type of, um, mogul skiing, he's another guy who had like this type of range of movement. And you don't see it that often. It's more of a physiological thing that you either can do it or you can't do it. Like, even you can see it a lot in World Cup mogul skiers, the difference in, in how much movement they can have. Even though they're doing it all the time and they're all really good skiers, you can just see the difference between the range of movement between athletes.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know, he's another guy that I probably have a video of it actually, so people can just search.

Yeah, J-E-A-N. Yeah, Luke Brossard. Yeah, to have a look. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. It brings up, you know—

oh, here it is. Here, I'll show you. You got it.

Some people probably being at a bit of a disadvantage already because they don't have that natural set— Yeah, wow. So he's super flexible, mobile. Yeah, wow. So his knees are up almost at his collarbones.

Yeah.

As he absorbs a mogul and then a split second later completely tips back down again.

Wow. Yeah, so this is— that's what, you know, when I watched Martin Guggenig skiing, it reminded me a lot of this skiing.

Yeah.

And obviously what I, you know, this is all coarse mogul skiing, which, you know, I think is very impressive, and obviously it has its place in on the world stage at the moment, but yeah, it's not very relatable to, um, the kind of moguls you're skiing a lot. No, for, you know, natural moguls, and when they— there's so many different variations, and, you know, there's longer, bigger, rounder bumps where you're not actually going over and absorbing so much. And then there's, you know, deep troughs, and then there's tight ones, and there's medium-sized ones, and they're all over the place, and there's not really like any rhythm. So that's what I saw in this video from the little clips, was that it's just free ski— it's just what you get on a day-to-day mogul run.

Yeah.

And that's what I think is more relatable. When you see someone really freeskiing that at a high level, I, I think that that is, um, you know, I like watching that better personally. Like, I liked watching the mogul skiing back in, um, the early '90s before the—

before it was more perfectly kind of shaped, or more—

yeah, like there's some stuff consistently shaped bumps.

Yeah, it was more a bit random, and so that, yeah, you had to be adaptable and change.

The rhythm was not always the same, boom boom, you Yeah, like another guy like Edgar Grosperon, he's like absolutely amazing, and he was skiing other, you know, before, you know, proper courses were set up, like just random mogul fields. And it was just, you know, that's the type of mogul skiing I like. Back in like '89, I think there was a really cool comp in Breckenridge that's on YouTube that you can check out. That's— but you can just see there's, there's because there's so many different variations, you'll see them get a little bit of air in between moguls, you'll see them land on their tails, you'll see them dive their tips down, you'll see them do all these different types of moves that are, you know, would be considered, um, not good technique in current World Cup. Yeah, but yeah, in, in terms of athletic kind of, but also in that type of situation where there's a really long trough and you don't want to go all the way deep into it, you Yeah, you might skip over to the— you might actually try and land on the tails a little bit and then slap down the tips on the backside. Yeah, there's just so many different possibilities and variations that you have in a, you know, a random set of moguls that you don't have in a, in a World Cup course.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, consistent kind of bump course.

Yeah, cool.

Um, awesome. So then I guess any, uh Any final things before we wrap up the chat? It's been pretty cool. Hopefully people have got a bit of an idea. I guess something maybe worth bringing up is, um, you know, we've been here a couple of nights and, uh, a lot of our spare time has been spent just like when it's not on snow moving around and just like our bike rides. Yeah, bike rides and like pistol squat challenges and yeah, and just, uh, stretching and moving, right? Like trying to, yep, keep our bodies prepared and yeah, and finding inconsistencies from the left foot.

This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach, and one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate SkiIQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens. But Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best SkiIQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps. And to be honest, my own highest SkiIQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of Turn Tempo, so basically your turns per minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, it's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, check out Carv. And a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.