Richie Berger Interview in Solden

Hallo and welcome to another episode of the Global Skiing Podcast. My name is Tom Gellie, your host, and I've just recently gotten back from a fantastic trip to Sölden, Austria. I was over there for just over a week, long way to go for just that amount of time, but it was so worth it. We had great snow conditions, had an awesome group of people to ski with, We sort of explored the Australian skiing style, my sort of thoughts on how the body moves maybe a little bit differently, or probably more accurately, just how the body, I believe, moves safely and efficiently while you're skiing. And so we did that throughout the week, doing workshops in the evening and then skiing 6 hours throughout the day in mostly sunshine and perfect glacial skiing. Yeah, so that was really good, just got back from that, and not only did I get to ski a lot, I got to watch the opening World Cup race in Sölden, where Alexi Pantoja took the first place, amazing effort, but the highlight for me was definitely seeing Marcel Hirscher's second run, never seen someone attack a steep icy slope as much as he did, and if he didn't have this little slip, I'm sure he would have been in the top spot. And then finally, which brings me to this interview, I got to meet up with Richie Berger, a definite idol and sort of hero that I look up to in the technical skiing world. Met him on a T-bar and had a chat with him and said, would you like to answer a few questions I have? And he said yes, which was great. So this recording is actually me sitting down in the hotel in Solden with Richie for just over half an hour and just asking him some questions that I'm interested in finding out more information about. So I hope you guys enjoy it and sort of gain some insight into the mind of Richie Berger and his fantastic skiing. I want to thank him for taking his time out. He's a busy guy, and so yeah, I really thank him for chatting with me. And I hope you guys enjoy it. And yeah, thanks very much for listening to the podcast. I appreciate all the messages that everyone sends me about, you know, what they get out of it. So I really appreciate you guys doing that. So keep them coming. If you can leave a comment on iTunes, that would be even better. And even better again if you could like my Facebook business page, which is Functional Body. Yeah, that would be fantastic too to have your support there. Okay, alright, here comes the interview.

Enjoy. Just going to start recording now. Do you know, did you at all have a look at any of the podcasts?

No.

You know what a podcast is?

No, not really.

Okay, it's just like a kind of an interview. It goes on iTunes and it's free for people to listen to.

Okay.

And basically, yeah, I'll just ask you questions that I'm interested in myself. And I think, 'cause I'm interested, there's a lot of people out there that would like to hear what you have to say. So I've talked to people like Norm Kreutz, and like Fritz, and some of the other younger guys, my friends Paul Lorenz and Riley. So yeah, and just ask them about some skiing stuff. Few questions I had here. Can you tell me about your background? Like, did you start out as a race kid? Like, what, how, why are you a skier?

Yeah, I started probably skiing like all young kids in Austria with parents.

Yeah.

And then I started to ski in a ski club. And there we got introduced to racing.

Yeah.

And, um, yeah, that's how I started, how I started skiing. And I was racing until, until 18, 19. Yeah, international races.

Yeah.

So Europe Cup?

No, just FIS.

Okay.

Not European Cup. Yeah, FIS races, long time ago.

Yeah.

And technically it was pretty good, but I was physically always very skinny and light.

Okay. And so you're always working at that, like, were you in the gym trying to—

No, not much. No, no, no, no. Okay. No, I was much more a player.

Okay.

And not a hard worker. Okay.

Yeah.

So that got you to a certain point, your technical ability, but then the strength part, these other guys were just bigger, so—

Yeah.

They had, in my age, they had 20, 30 kilos more than me.

Yeah.

And flat slopes, there was no chance.

So then is that when you decided to go down the instructor side of things?

Yeah. Yeah.

So you went to St. Christophe?

I went straight to St. Christophe.

Yeah. And went through all your training and—

Yeah.

Do you remember having some, like, were there some people in your training that were really influential on how you skied, or had you already built up your own style a bit before then?

Well, of course we were a group of young racers.

Yeah.

And the funny thing was that nobody knew from each other that he's going to St. Christoph.

Okay.

And walking down the stairs, going for breakfast, we met and we're wondering, what are you doing here? Yeah, we knew each other from racing.

Yeah.

And then we met there again and yeah, there we were pushing each other day by day and skiing together. And of course, bit tired from racing.

Yeah.

And looking forward for having fun.

Yeah.

Skiing and off-piste skiing and freeskining.

Yep.

So did you take— was one area like, did you really then, because you'd been coming from racing, start enjoying, like, was moguls your favorite thing, or did you like everything?

No, I never practiced mogul skiing, actually.

Okay.

It just, yeah, came overnight. Yeah, it was more powder snow skiing, steep stuff skiing.

Yeah.

Up there at Adelberg.

Yeah.

And yeah, okay, cool.

And, uh, so I just gotta unlock this. So was that when you became sort of interested more in like technical skiing, as you would say? So demonstration skiing, you know, because you're pretty well known for being someone who's very into it. Like, when did that start?

But this wasn't actually planned.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was just we didn't know what we should do after racing.

Yeah.

And then our ski school director, which was also a kind of father for us because we were 18, 19, 20 years old and he was also educating us a little bit.

Yeah.

Not just skiing.

Yeah, yeah. Also what to do with the girls.

Yeah.

And yeah, he, he started to decide and what we are doing.

Okay.

He said, okay, now you are ready for the exam for national ski instructors, and now you're ready to move to Japan, now you're ready to go there. And he was sending us to other places.

Okay, so he was very much a coach.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it wasn't coming from us that we said, okay, I want to go to Japan and I want to, yeah.

When did that start happening? When did he kind of send you?

I went first time in 1989.

Okay.

To Japan.

Yeah.

And so what did you do in that time? Like, did you go over to record a video or to run a camp or?

That was, no, it was kind of being ambassador. Yeah. Austrian Ski Technik.

Okay.

Because the ski school was kind of national ski school. Like all other ski schools around in, in the ski fields are private ski schools.

Yes.

But this was a national ski school, so we were employed by government.

Yeah.

And the government was sending us to different countries to introduce the Austrian skiing technique.

Okay, yeah, cool.

And this was for a pretty long time, and of course in this time I, I was able to, to make connections, yeah, to network. And now this kind of ski schools doesn't exist anymore, but I still have, I say, connection network. So yeah, I'm still— yeah, I was still there.

Yeah, yeah. So did you compete in the competitions, the technical competitions over there?

The technical competitions in Japan are actually not allowed for foreigners.

Yeah.

Yeah, now they started in provincial to allow it in provincial competitions like Hokkaido or other places, but it's not allowed in the national one. Yeah, they did it sometimes, and always the international racer was the winner. So they wanted to keep it as a national competition. Yeah, okay. And then was a time where they started an international competition. Okay. This was held in 19— this was after Interski in, uh, after Interski in Nozawa Onsen, I think. After 1995, around this time. Yeah, they did it 2 or 3 times in Japan, in Osaka, and then what I know was 1 or 2 international competitions in Korea.

Okay.

But then they stopped this kind of international.

Was there just not much interest, or—

No, it was difficult. They had to invite all foreigners from Europe and other countries. Yeah, it wasn't a big deal for, for the Koreans or Japanese. Yeah, because they were staying there. Yeah, but nobody was paying to go there to compete. Yeah, and that was probably the problem. Okay, I stopped.

Yeah.

Okay.

Um, so I was going to ask you what you did as a younger skier for physical training and preparation, but you said as a racer you didn't After getting more into this side and realizing it's your kind of career, did you start training, physically training your body? No, never. Never? Now, do you now?

You know, what I mean is, especially young racers or kids, they don't need a special training for skiing. They need a very, they need a very broad, broad, wide, yeah, range of different sports. Yes. Yeah. So they have fun.

Yeah.

They should learn to play tennis, they should play squash, and all the things where you have all, all the motoric and physical things you need.

Yes.

Like speed and power and resistance.

Yeah.

But they should do it by doing sport and playing.

Yes.

And not by going to gym or doing special training.

Specific for skiing, yeah, okay. Yeah, interesting.

That's my idea actually.

Yeah, that was kind of your training. You would just go and, you played many other sports and, yeah, interesting.

And I was always focusing on, also on skiers, not very powerful, not very big skiers.

Yes, okay.

Like Ingeborg Stenmark wasn't a very big, heavy skier. He was skinny but with very good skills. Van Groeningen was also skinny, yes, but with good skills. Yes, that Ligeti is also skinny, yes, good skills. So yes, I don't need to have 90 or 100 kilos to be a good, to be a good racer, technical racer. Yes, of course in downhill you need, yeah, to have weight, but yeah.

But all the other things, yeah, not so much. Yeah, interesting. So how's your technique changed over the years? Do you think it's changed or not at all? Like, what's your—

Of course, of course. Yeah, you know, I'm pretty long in this kind of business and I started skating with long straight skis. Yeah, when I was teaching there in San Cristóbal, we skied with 207, 210 skis. Yeah, radius 45 meters, 50 meters.

Yeah.

And now the ski length is, is almost 40, 50 centimeters shorter.

Yeah.

And with much more sidecut.

Yeah.

And of course also technically This also influenced my ski technique.

Yeah, so what are some, are there some things you remember, like stages you went through of working towards changing something? Like maybe like pressure control or early edge, or do you remember going through certain stages in your life?

Yeah, yeah.

So where, what was the first kind of major one you felt was maybe a breakthrough or the big, big change?

I think is mainly in longer turns, not that much in short turns. Also short turns, etching becomes earlier and earlier. Yes, the long skis, etching was very much at the, at the end of the turn.

Yeah.

And now we start to etch always earlier. But especially on long turns, on the long carving turns, yeah, this is early, early edge. We did also carving. Carving was— we did carving a long time ago, even with our long skis, but it was much more on one ski, just on our outside ski.

Yeah.

And we, we couldn't use the inside ski. Yeah, that much. Yeah, we were lifting up our inside ski, making Yeah, pressure just on our downhill ski.

Yeah.

And this distribution on both legs and also using our inside edge.

Yeah.

This was probably the biggest change, biggest change with the carving ski for me.

Yeah.

So what do you feel now yourself is the kind of distribution in a, in a long turn? Like, where do you feel if you were to just try and put a number on it?

Yeah.

Well, that's a difficult question because I know that all the races and most people, they just tell people to weight outside ski and build up pressure on your outside ski. And what I do is I try to focus on skiing on both legs. Equal with the same pressure. And if you ski on, on the slope, your downhill ski is always lower than your uphill ski.

Yep.

So that by this reason also your downhill ski has always much more weight. Yeah, automatically more weight than your inside ski. And that's why I think I need to actively build up pressure on my inside ski ski.

Yeah.

So I tried to build up active pressure on my inside ski and try to get, to get the pressure from, from the terrain and from the centrifugal forces on my, on my downhill ski.

Yes.

And by this way, I'm able to be more even, to be more even, and just keep both legs.

Interesting. Yeah, I've been playing with that a little bit more so in longer turns, a little bit in shorter turns. And it just feels like I get more, when I'm active with the inside, it feels like I load up more of my body. So more of my body is tensioned and strong to then control the pressure or direct energy out of the turn. Would you feel?

Yeah, of course you're much stronger, you're much more compact. Much more stable, I feel, than skiing just on one leg. Yeah, just on my outside ski.

Yeah, yeah, cool, interesting. And is it short turns, do you feel the same on short turns?

25 years ago, we teach already to weight both skis equal, because on short turns you're not moving so far away from the fall line, and on long turns you move much closer to the fall line. And of course, that's just skiing on both legs. No weight change from downhill ski to downhill ski.

Yeah, okay.

Not at all. Cool.

Do you feel, you know, with the slalom skis now, because, you know, I've seen videos of you from when you're in older suits, and then, you know, now more in your new bright colored ones. And it looks smoother to me, the way you ski now, compared to the way you used to ski. That's a deliberate thing you're trying to do? Not so hard, hard and—

Yeah, I think it all was coming up with the change of material. Because with the older skis, your edging was much later. Yeah. Then you get much more rebound.

Yeah.

And then the heavy punch from the terrain.

Yeah.

And from pressure.

Yeah.

And now with the shorter and stronger sidecut skis, I try to edge around the fall line where not much pressure is coming back. Yeah. And by this way, I'm able to balance much easier.

Yeah.

And the pressure buildup is also much smoother. Yeah, and it's much easier. There's not so much pressure change. If you edge very late, you have much pressure and then you have no, no pressure.

Yeah.

And if you edge earlier, it's easier to have all the time almost the same pressure, and then of course it's smoother.

Yeah.

You feel the same kind of thing in, in the moguls, the buckle pistes?

I try. Yeah, I try to build up Yeah, backside, the backside of the bump. Yeah, to build up pressure and, yeah, and to unweight as when the bump is coming.

Yeah.

Do you have any like, uh, cues personally you think about to, to do that on the backside, to get the ski pressured on the backside, or does it more come from also having good reactions the bump coming towards you, so you can push back against the backside of the next bump.

Well, I think it's a combination of rolling over with your center of mass.

Yeah.

And pulling back your skis.

Yeah.

Your legs.

Yep.

So slowing down the feet almost, letting the body go faster.

Yeah.

And that's the problem for most people, because they're a bit scared.

Yeah. They move back and then just slap, slap. Yeah, slap, slap.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, cool. Do you, so are you working on anything in your skiing at the moment? Like in your own skiing? When you go out, are you kind of like, ah, yeah, still need to be?

Of course. Yeah, every day. Yeah, every day I try to practice and to improve and to change.

Like today, for instance, up on the glacier, anything you're feeling or like enjoying or maybe, you know, playing with?

What I try to improve day by day is the kind of steering. Yeah, do not slide, do not carve, to find a combination of those. Yeah, uh, things.

Yeah.

And of course also to stay all the time with the same pressure.

Yes.

But it's pretty easy on, on gentle slopes.

Yeah.

Intermediate slopes. But on steeper stuff, when it gets harder, it's very hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And also try to ski with less movement.

Okay.

Be always in the same position. Uh-huh.

So what do you mean by that in another— how would you explain that in another way?

Well, I think I always focus to keep my center of mass in the same position. My head in the same position. The whole body in the same position. And also not much bending and extending my legs.

Yes, okay.

I'll just let them run, run underneath you, underneath my body. Yeah, to have a good acceleration in a turn. Yeah, like shock absorbers. Yeah, hard shock absorbers. Yeah, your car allows you to accelerate. Yeah, at the end of, of the turn.

Yes.

And if those are too soft, yeah, you lose pressure, you lose speed.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

Yeah, that's cool. That's very cool to think of. Do you do anything with your equipment, with your ski boots? Like in the fitting of them? Do you, like, have you a pretty good foot? Or do you have to do a lot of work? Because you've spent hundreds and hundreds and thousands of days in ski boots.

Well, I have one big right ankle.

Yeah.

And here just scraping, scraping out to not have pain.

Yeah.

But like, do you cant your boots? No, no, you're pretty— when you stand in, your leg comes up. Yeah, pretty straight. Always been that way.

Yeah, yeah.

With your guests, do you ever look at that as an, as a component or something to—

yeah, I think material is very important. Yeah, very important.

Important.

And of course, I'm, I'm a person who cares very much the material, the skis, and I don't like it all to not, to not have a good, good material. Yeah, the equipment.

Yeah.

So in your, like, in your skis, what do you look for? Like, what kind of feel or whatever in your skis are you looking for? Something not too stiff, not too soft? Is it, or do you like stiffer, or what and why?

Well, I don't have special skis. I have skis which you can buy in the shop. Of course, these are all skis from race department, slalom skis from race department, and skis from race department. And yeah, I I like actually also in boots, I'm skiing pretty hard boots. And also skis, I prefer harder skis because I think they give me much more rebound, much more trampoline effect than the soft ones. And in soft skis or soft boots, I feel I lose pressure.

Like you were talking about before, you want to keep the body the same so the ski can do more, then you don't have to have the mushy suspension you have.

And if I have Steve's ski boots, pressure is going much more forward with the skis. Yeah, downhill and then not sideways.

Yeah, yeah, cool, interesting. Um, with, uh, Last few questions. Are there some principles you think are really essential, like simple kind of principles in skiing, that you kind of really make sure you get across when you teach your kind of the people you ski with?

Well, principles are of course basic technique. I think basic technique is most important, and I practice every day basic technique. Technique in the morning. Yeah, my first run, first runs. And this is the most important thing, I think. And physically, that's why I also think it's not important to make fitness training, because for skiing, I think balance and coordination is the most important thing and not power. And if you're good in balance and in coordination, you can be a very good skier.

Yes. Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. So what's a typical season for you? Like, are you booked out all winter? Like, can people get in touch with you to organize camps, that sort of thing? Anything? Uh, like, are you booked out this whole winter? Yeah, you are?

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's— I also have running a ski school at home and a small sports shop, like a tune-up shop and rental shop. Yes. And so if I don't ski, or even when I finished skiing, I have to organize all these things a little bit.

Yeah.

I also have some employees, which is sometimes hard to handle and to organize. Yeah. And I'm not anymore skiing every day and every week and all week.

Yeah.

Because of these things around me. But I had skiing seasons in which I skied 300 days.

Yeah, wow. And it's tiring.

It's tiring.

Yeah.

And now with all this other work around, when I'm on skis, I'm very motivated.

Yeah.

And focused on practicing and skiing.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah.

Yeah, cool. So where do you go to next after this?

I go back home for one week. I need to organize my ski school and get everything sorted before the season. And then next week I'm in Kaprun, another glacier, and then Stubai, and then have some race camps around Schladming. And technical camps at home. And then almost is Christmas.

Yeah, nice.

Then the season starts with the ski school there.

Yeah.

And in January I'm once always in Japan for about 10 days, 2 weeks, end of January. Then I'm coming back because we have, uh, we have vacations, the biggest vacation.

So yeah, beginning of the season.

Ski school beginning of February, I'm again there for 2 weeks, and then from 18th February on until 10th of April.

Are you going back over to see Tom again? You're going to ski with—

What I saw on my schedule is I'm working with him this season 2 days in the ski school.

Yeah, yeah, awesome. Yeah, do you enjoy skiing over there? Yes, Yes, it's a bit quieter, isn't it? Like, Myoko is not so busy.

And well, I don't know the place where Tom's ski school is. Is it in Niseko?

No, uh, Myoko.

Oh, Myoko. When I'm in Myoko, the season finished already. Yeah, it's not any more busy. Yeah, for Tom's ski school, it's, I think, the last week.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah, but even I visited him in February a few years ago, and even then it was, it was nice. It's not too busy, but there's some good bump runs there. Yeah, yeah, yeah, really nice.

Yeah, cool.

Um, I was with my people today, just some thoughts I had, have been playing with this idea that when you're steering with your leg, there is more, most people just talk about steering from like the upper leg, right? So the thigh. So there's this separation there. But there's also some steering which you can do with the foot and the lower leg at the knee joint. And my sort of feeling on it is you use more the upper part of the leg at the beginning, because it's more of an edging movement, and you actually relax the lower leg to allow the foot to roll out and the ski to run the edge. And then more from the fall line, as you start to want to build the pressure more and direct the ski back, you use not so much the upper leg, but more the foot and the lower leg to bring it back.

Yeah, I agree this.

Yeah. Do you teach kind of in that way or do you get through, like, do you explain it to people that there is this?

Yeah. Yeah.

Of course I explain because too often we explain and we show them, yeah, you have to move your knees right and left. You can't move your knee sideways.

No.

It's just one way to be able to move your knees.

Yeah.

And to move them sideways, you need to rotate your thigh and your leg. Yeah. And that's the reason why your knees are inside. Of course, I also was practicing with them and explaining them.

Yeah. So today I was trying to explain to them that don't just think about there being rotational separation just at the hip, but that you can also get it at the hip hip and then the knee, so there's kind of 3 different directions where the pelvis is going, where the knee's going, where the foot's going. And then in the middle they all kind of line up, and then the foot starts overtaking all of them again. So the foot is the furthest across the hill, the knee a little bit, and then the pelvis, yep, straight down.

Yeah, it's like on golf, on, on tennis, Yeah, yeah, you start teaching them to move your arm in your shoulder. Okay, yeah, then if you become better and better, you need also to open your wrist. Okay, for acceleration. Yeah, and that's the kick you give the ball and the speed you give the ball. Yeah, just doing this, it's to control.

Yes, and stiff. Yeah, yeah, you get kind of this more whip.

Yeah.

Effect, yeah, yeah.

It's also the acceleration out of the turn.

Yeah, yeah, nice. Yeah, cool, because I saw you guys doing some drills, just, you know, like typical block, the upper body drills, and you could see the people at the front of the group were really good. They had the idea of being able to steer just enough with the thighs. That they didn't rotate with the hips, but then they could move the lower body and the people at the back just disconnected. It was all one thing turning.

Yeah, because it's— there was one period when we started to teach to follow his keys. You need to follow his key dips.

Yeah.

And this, then a kind of rotation appeared.

Yeah.

People were not anymore able to separate upper body from lower body.

Yeah.

And that's the problem also what they have.

Yeah.

But they're getting better.

Yeah, they're getting better. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Same with my guys too. And they can start to see it too, 'cause like on the video it's like, can you see, yes, you are turning good with this part, but this lower part is stiff and stuck. You're lazy there and you need to move it. Yeah, it's interesting because I've started talking about, like, at the— because I see a lot at the start of the turn, they, they use the lower leg to do the start the turn.

Yeah.

And not the top. And it's kind of, again, like your tennis serve analogy, it's almost like they're just trying to hit with the wrist.

Yeah.

When they need to smash the ball over the net.

Yeah.

So, uh, Yeah, that's cool. Excellent. Well, thanks for your time.

No, thank you.

Yeah, yeah, it's good to meet you because Fritz has talked highly of you and some of the training sessions because, you know, I think he's probably, I would imagine, trains similar to you because we've been skiing together in Canada and yeah, he's really disciplined and has a good progression. Connection to everything. And he's told me some stories about when you went— used to train him and some of the other good guys. And, and he actually— I remember him mentioning the day when you said, okay, like, we are now going to work on a long turn, getting on the edge early. And they all thought they could do it. And then you said, no, no, no, no, like, like really early on the edge. And they all fell over and it took them a while to really get that happening. So what was that? When they thought they were on the edge early, but you said, "No, no, no, no, earlier." What was?

Well, most people or many people, they are not working on the edge angle. They just change. So they just change the edges from one side to the other.

Yeah.

And when they increase the edge angle, they do it at the end of the turn.

Yeah.

And we also, with Fritz, we have been working pretty much to increase in the face of our downhill turn.

Yeah.

To increase edge angle. Yeah. To have the strongest edge angle in the whole line. Yeah.

And then decreasing, decrease Yeah, that's Ted Ligety, pretty much.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like that.

Did you see him training up there?

No, today? No, no, I didn't see him.

Yeah, he was— he looks very different. Or, you know, I saw a stack of people come through from different countries, but he definitely stood out in that group of skiers anyway as having exactly what you're talking about, increasing a lot until the fall line, and then he's really relaxed there, and he can just decrease and just use that to slingshot across, and he's very relaxed.

Yeah, and he's able to ski so strong inclinations.

Yes.

At the beginning of the turn.

Yeah.

The face of the downhill turn.

Yes.

Until the fall line.

Yeah.

And that's what many other racers can't do.

Yeah.

Just stay upright. Right?

Yes.

And they start building up in the foreline.

Yes, yeah.

And he's doing this best.

Yeah, great inclination. Yeah, very, very early.

Yeah.

Is that something you like playing within your own scheme? Yeah, trying to do that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Same, I've been trying to emulate it and it's, it's good, feels good when you get it. And I I think, I feel anyway, that this idea of the separation of moving more from the hips and the thigh at the top, and letting your whole body really fall over as you're standing on your outside ski is definitely part of it. And then you start guiding this, the foot around to get everything straight and long in the body.

Cool.

Okay, same idea. Yeah, okay, that's good. Well, thanks for your time.

No, yeah, appreciate it.

And, uh, yeah, cool.

This episode is brought to you by Carv, the digital ski coach. Now, one of the features I've had the most fun with all time is simply the fact that Carv tracks every single turn you make. I treat it a bit like Strava, so at the end of the day, it tells me exactly how many turns I've done and those numbers keep adding up across the season. So last season in Australia, I had a few days where I was doing nearly 2,500 turns, and my legs were tired, but it was really cool to try and have that number there motivating me. And I'm quietly working my way towards my 1 millionth turn with Carv. So the other metrics I've been diving into lately, and these are new for this season, are very unique, and these are turn corridor and turn radius. And I don't see many skiers using them, but they tell you a lot about the shape and flow of your skiing. So the turn corridor shows you how far you're traveling across the hill, or the time almost between apex to apex, and how long you're taking to transition. While the turn radius measures the actual arc you create once you start the turn. So these can be different. You can have like a very wide corridor, say 18 meters, but a lower turn radius, or the other way around. So when you compare the two, it opens up a whole world of experimentation, and it would be a bit like a race coach will set different types of race courses to influence a racer or skier to change the timing and mix it up. So I encourage you to look into this if you've got Carv and play with it and see if you can manipulate it, because it's only going to improve your versatility. So I keep my Carv on my boots every single day because you never know quite know when like a change in technique or a new ski resort or skis will show up in the numbers. And it's great at the end of the day being able to check that, or even up after the fact. And I'm really looking forward to the day I open the app and I see turn number 1 million. So if you want to explore your skiing in a completely different way, check out Carv, the digital ski coach. And thank you, team, for sponsoring this episode.