Ron Betts Interview

Hello and welcome to the Global Skiing Podcast. This is Tom Gellie, and today I'm talking with a good friend of mine, Ron Betts. And Ron Betts is a bit of a legend in the ski industry. He's been around for quite a many number of years, and his number of seasons skiing, coaching, guiding total over 30, so he's, yeah, definitely very seasoned. Ron is a Level 4 CSIA instructor. He's done 15 years as a heli ski guide. He was— he is one of the lead ski guides at Mike Wiggly's Heli Skiing. He's also a race coach and now runs his own company in New Zealand, a really cool ziplining company. So, uh, welcome, welcome to the Global Skiing Podcast, Ron.

Awesome, that was— I'm flattered, Tom. That was awesome, man. I'd much rather be sitting on a chair having this talk, but this is awesome as well.

Yep.

It's— I always laugh sometimes. It's like when you stick around long enough, you know, somebody calls you a legend. I'm flattered, but sometimes it's— he's been here for a long time, so he gets the title. That's great. Thank you so much.

Yeah, no problems. Well, I mean, I think it's funny to— you know, how many people in different places across the world know certain people and, you know, their name keeps kind of popping up. So, yeah, no, you should be flattered that, yep, you're a legend. You definitely got a good reputation. So, do you want to give us a bit of a background on where you sort of came from, Ron? Sort of, you know, when you started skiing and how you got into instructing and and, uh, that was sort of where your life led you.

For sure. Yeah, I'd love to. It's, uh, it's funny. I think for all of us, you know, we have— everybody who's in this business, you know, we have such a great circle, and all of us have a path that's a really— can be an interesting one. Sometimes it's a curvy path and sometimes it's a straight one. But, um, probably my path into skiing, Tom, started when I was about 14 or 15. I was my very first time skiing. And growing up in Canada, especially in eastern Canada where I grew up, Nova Scotia, so way out on the Atlantic coast, skiing definitely was not the main sport. It was ice hockey. And like most Canadian kids, I played a lot of hockey growing up. And it was actually a hockey coach who took our team out for a fun day, just took us all skiing. It was probably a dumb thing for him to do because he lost about half the team. Everybody looked around and went, you know what, there's there's like way more girls hanging around at a ski hill than there are at a hockey rink. And we just had a ball. You know, I remember— I think skiing is one of those fun things that if you ask a lot of skiers about their first time, people have really vivid memories. And I'm no different. I remember that first time really vividly. It was super fun day, and it definitely got me hooked and changed the path for the rest of my life.

Excellent, excellent. And so when did you first sort of get, uh, like when did you start instructing? How early on was that?

So pretty, pretty soon after that. Like, I, I gave up hockey after about a year. I did both for one season and, um, and just found that it was really hard to balance those two sports in the winter and found myself wanting to go more to the ski hill than to the rink. And then I found out about the Level 1 program and, and did that my first time when I was 15. So At that time you had to be 16. I think I snuck through the front door or something and ended up on that course. I wasn't quite ready. It was pretty funny. I probably needed more instruction or needed somebody to teach me Rin. Definitely wasn't ready to teach other people at that point. But I went back after the next year, back when I was 16, and took my first job. And I remember teaching kids. I started in a tots program teaching little 3 to 5-year-old kids and absolutely loved it. And you know, it's some things in life when you're doing them, they just click and they feel like the right thing for you. It was just a natural fit. I loved it right away.

When did you move from the East Coast out west?

That was when I was 19. So it was— gosh, it was a funny one. I remember I was in university back in Nova Scotia and with a group of friends. I remember there were 4 of us, all really keen skiers, and I remember this day vividly. We were all studying for an exam, and I looked over, and a good friend of mine, Jeff McLennan, who's still a top-level coach in Whistler— Jeffy was reading a ski magazine. And I said to him, Jeffy, man, shouldn't you be studying for your exam? He's like, no, I don't think so, not important. And that was the day that Jeffy decided that he was going on his ski path.

Yeah.

Out of those 4 guys, we all ended up— it was funny, really none of us were fit for university. Jeff and I ended up on the ski path. We ended up out west at Silver Star. The other 2 guys went to flight school and are both commercial pilots these days. So we always have these great conversations. We're all still friends about how, you know, we took a little bit of an unconventional path, but it was the right path for all of us.

Yeah, excellent. And then, um, so you've obviously seen, like, when you first did your levels— what— and don't take this the wrong way, but what were the skis like?

Well, you know, I was, I was definitely— when I came through the Level 4 program, I, I did most of my levels. I think one of the most pivotal, you know, pivotal things for me One of the most influential things in my ski career was ending up at Silver Star, and that was when Jeff and I moved from Nova Scotia. We had never skied anywhere. The furthest I had ever skied was at Mount Sainte-Anne in Quebec. Mm-hmm. So when we moved out west, it was, you know, the choice was Whistler. Silver Star was a bit of a fluke. We had seen it on a TV show and it just looked like a really cool place. It kind of looked like the kind of place where you wouldn't be just a number like maybe some of the other bigger places.

Yep.

Um, and at that time it was a perfect fit for us. But we got there and, and Silver Star at that time was— man, it was like this petri dish of talent. It was, um, there were some really talented skiers there. Training was a high priority. Had a really well-respected ski school. And, and for what we were looking for, it was unbelievable. So all the levels I did were basically through Silver Star and through the program there. And I came through my Level 4 right at the tail end of when we were still on straight skis, probably skiing like a 198 GS.

Awesome.

So yeah, it was— I remember some great fun bump lines, skiing the long straight in the bumps.

Yep. Do you remember the bumps being shaped much differently back then?

You know, I want to say— yeah, I do. I think they felt like a little more the Volkswagens, you know, a little bit rounder.

Yep.

And I remember the bump day for the Level 4 exams was a real beautiful day. Soft bumps, you know, the perfect sort of face shots where you can get the slush or the corn bumps. And so I think everybody was just having a great fun day.

Yes.

One guy that I remember on the course, I was lucky to go through with some great people, and, um, and one guy who was on the course who's no longer with us, uh, Eric Russo, who's just— if you ever had the chance to meet him, you'd never forget. He was, he was one of the brightest lights you'd ever meet. But Eric was the guy who, you know, went down first and threw the heli. That was the big thing in those days, if you could stick a heli in the bumps. So Yeah, it was a good day. It was a fun day.

Yeah, cool. So, who would you say was instrumental in sort of training you, and what sort of things did they give you, like what elements of skiing, technique, or attitude teaching did you kind of learn from some of these people that were your mentors?

You know what, we could, honestly, we could be here for hours, but just because you got to shortlist it. I'm going to shortlist it for you for sure. You know, um, for me, the two Canadians that stand out at the time would be, uh, Guy Paulson is, is easily up there and in the top. When I moved to, to Silver Star, Guy was the ski school director at the time. And you know, there was such a high priority on training, you know, sessions. You had to be at the sessions, you know, and you had to really be working at it. And And it really helped your status in the ski school and the kind of work you got. So, and Guy was just so focused on the technical aspects. I love that. For me, really resonated. Um, Darren Richmond, another real amazing guy, took over after Guy, ski school director. And Darren again just kept that tradition going that had been started by Norm Kreutz. Um, one of the biggest influences though, man, was a guy named John Fay, JF. And John was one of the, you know, former technical director for the APSI.

Yes.

And, uh, a legend in skiing as well in Australia. And John, for me, was— he was probably the first guy who introduced me to Australia, convinced me to come over there for a season, but had a real fun, unique training style. We'd go out and just goof around. He was, uh, had an engineering background, so he was so analytical, so precise, so into angles, so into precision and how things worked in the biomechanics. And I just loved it. It soaked it up like a sponge. So he was up there too in my top 3.

Okay. I remember, because you did a few seasons in Charlotte Pass in Australia, right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yep. So I remember Moko telling me about going out on a group lesson with I think it was John Fay, and he sent everyone back, like, home from the lesson. They didn't even start because no one's edges were sharp.

Yeah.

Is that the kind of— he said that— he would say, there's no point me teaching you if your skis aren't sharp, so everyone get home, like, I'm not going to teach this lesson.

Yeah. And we would do some— oh man, some fun stuff. Like, I remember going out, um, we'd go to Charleroi Pass and our session goal would be to go around the mountain to find the worst snow we could find. And the goal was, we always, we had a goal of if somebody was watching from the chairlift, they would want to go ski that run. They would go, oh, that looks really fun, we should go over there.

Right, so you had to make it look fun, you had to make it look easy.

Yeah, so it was, it was so awesome.

That's cool.

You know, little things like that that just for, for younger instructors that just ignite a passion. Yeah, he was really good at that. But yeah, I mean, I've been so lucky in my career. Honestly, the list goes on and on, just like I'm sure you have. Mm-hmm. No, definitely so many incredible people.

So I mean, I never had to go from straight skis to shaped skis. So when that transition happened, like, how do you feel like personally technique change, maybe just for yourself? Like, is there—

Yeah, so much fun. Like, for me, what I remember the most, because, you know, when you think about that time in, in snow sport, there was a lot of really cool stuff happening.

There was—

snowboarding was really coming onto the scene. Yeah, definitely. There was a lot more carving happening at that time on snowboards, and And honestly, I remember, you know, you'd watch the guys who are on hard boot and carving, and they could just carve so hard. It looks so fun, like these, these radiuses that were— radii that were impossible, right?

Yeah.

So all of a sudden we started to get these tools that, that you could match what they were doing. Yep. And it was so incredibly fun, you know, just the angles that you could get, how far over, how much inclination you could get. And all those new feelings, just unbelievable. And I'm sure there was, when we look back on it, there was probably a year or two of transition where people were figuring out what worked and what didn't. But I remember that really vividly, just those new feelings. How cool.

So, you know, early season, maybe after you'd gotten your level 4, you'd gather for a sort of trainers coordination thing and would there usually be, okay, so we figured this is something we're going to emphasize this year, and now with, say, a medium radius turn, obviously inclination was probably one of the biggest things, was it?

Yeah, absolutely, and I think, yeah, exactly, and just trying to find the right mix and things starting to go, and I think it went hand in hand with that time in racing as well, because the CSCF were getting that gear as well. Yep, all that gear was starting to, to come onto the World Cup and starting to filter down. So things were becoming a lot more two-footed, you know, um, a lot more activation on the inside leg. Yeah, you know, um, people really trying to talk about parallel boots, parallel legs, trying to make sure that you're carving on both skis. And yeah, back in the day, I remember you get a group of good skiers together and you know, it was— you wanted little kids to get lost in your trenches, you know. That was the— yes, let's go down and see if we can leave ditches.

Yep, excellent. So then you— so you taught for a while, and then how did it happen that you got into heliski guiding? Because obviously that's a pretty awesome, cool job, you know. You tell that to people and it's like, if you're a ski instructor, that's kind of up there as something you'd aspire to be. So tell us how that all happened.

Yeah, you know what, I'd be happy to. And if I were going to tell the true story, it would probably— in reality, it probably shouldn't have happened. And I feel like sometimes the luckiest guy in the world that that happened for me. It was, you know, again, I don't want to take too much time on this story, but for me it was a cathartic thing in my life, to be honest. It was— I had been doing the same thing for a long time. I had been teaching and coaching and and still love the business and love the industry. But at that time in my life, I was probably way too heavily leaning on the social side of the industry. And by that I mean, I was truly going down the wrong path. I was partying hard and, you know, just as some people do. For me getting into guiding, it probably shouldn't have happened because I got chosen out of the ski school at Silver Star to go to Wigley's and get an opportunity to almost get a tryout there. Yep.

Wow.

And to be honest, there were probably people that were as deserving as I was, and at the point I was at in my life, I look back sometimes and I think, you know, it was Darren Richmond who was the ski school director at the time. That choice to send me to Wigley's probably changed my life more than anything else, and it gave me probably a fresh set of eyes and a bit of focus as well. That season, that first season I ended up at Wiggly's, was the year that I made some lifestyle changes that have all been for the better. So I definitely credit Darren for helping my path in life, and I definitely think guiding for me was just a bit of a reawakening in the business and a reawakening for myself. It was an amazing, amazing time. Great opportunity. Mm-hmm.

So how you know, for people who are interested in how that whole, I guess, pathway goes. So you kind of, I guess, almost get a bit of a tryout and shadow or assistant guide. Is that where it starts and when— how does it—?

Oh, for sure, Tom. So what happened at that time, I went to work with Mike Wiggly's right away. It was my first job in the industry and again, very lucky to start with such a reputable business. But Um, what Mike had done is over his time he had been looking and, and looking at the guides that were coming up through and getting a lot of these mountain guys who are either ski patrollers or, or coming from that end of the industry. Yep. And what Mike had, a bit of a philosophy that probably because he came from a teaching background, that it was easier to take people who had the soft skills, who could deal with groups, who knew how to be safe, who had good rapport with people. Yeah, easier to take those people and teach them the hard skills they needed for guiding, the rope skills and all those things. So that's why he went looking, you know, and his goal was to have level 4 guys come up and do his program. And so that's how I got my foot in the door, was I got the invite. He, he had sponsored a team from Silver Star, that team I was on, that went to do a synchro skiing championships in Vail. And a few of the guys on that team got, got the offer to come up and have a look at Wiggly's. And, and a few of us actually took the jump and ended up going to Guide. Yeah, cool. And yeah, it was really, you know, probably I would, I would say for anybody getting into that path, you know, you— a couple of things you have to do. One is sort of check your ego at the door. And also, um, a lot of the skills that we have from ski teaching are relevant but also be smart enough to realize that there's so many other new skills that, that aren't relevant that you have to relearn. So it's, it was a bit hard for sure. I watched some people adjust to it well and others not as well, um, where they, they just had to relearn skills. And it was hard to go from being, you know, a big fish in a small pond often to kind of go, oh wow, I do have to tail guide. And it's about a 5 or 6 year progression, I would say, from your first year guiding to where you're going to be lead guiding or leading a machine.

Yeah, and I know, um, you've kind of told me a little bit about a typical day, but, you know, would you run through, like, um, you know, you wake up, what time, you do what? Because it's not— everyone's, you know, like, oh wow, you get to get in a helicopter, you go powder skiing, and yes, you get all those cool things, but it's day Definitely, it's— you do a lot of hours, a lot of work, don't you? So, could you go through like what a typical day could be?

For sure, yeah, man. So, for most guides, yeah, you're up at the crack of dawn, you know, you're just doing a weather check and if you're the lead guide on the machine that day, meaning you're the guide responsible for where you're skiing and the day plan, you know, you get up early, have a look at the weather, see what— if it's going to work with your plan, with what the weather's doing. Our first meeting of the day was at 7:30. We'd meet in the guides' room. That meeting was a weather forecast and then we would go through a safety briefing for the day. So, someone was responsible for doing an avalanche forecast. So, basically giving a rating scale on where the avalanche hazard was on that day. Based on all that information, then you start to put a plan together on where you think you want to go skiing. So we're out on the snow, you know, if it's a good day, you're flying out of the village around 8:30, 8:45, and you're outside till, you know, depending on the time of year, 4 o'clock, even 4:30 in the afternoon. So within those hours that you're out, you're responsible for choosing the runs, dealing with all the issues that go on with helicopters, pre-planning, okay, how many runs do I have before the helicopter needs to go for fuel? How far back am I in the mountains? How many groups do I have to manage? So, you know, in terms of stress levels compared to a day of teaching skiing, I don't want to say one's much easier because we all have challenges, but I would say with guiding, you know, you're on, you're on, and you have a plan A, B, C, and D, and all those plans are ready to go. You have to be so liquid and flexible and able to change. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

And so now you've kind of— I'm going to actually jump back a bit. So through what avenue was it then you started working with Ski Canada magazine?

Where did that come from? That was— so anyone who's familiar with Ski Canada, we do an annual test. Ski Canada has been testing skis longer than any other magazine in North America, actually, about 30-plus years as well they've been testing. So it's always something that I wanted to be involved in. I, one of the things I love about the ski industry, and I'm sure you're the same, is we never have to pigeonhole ourselves into, into one role. There's so many cool things that we can, so many directions that we can go. Um, so I always wanted to be a tester, so I contacted the magazine and just said, you know, if an opening comes up, I'd like to do it. And I'd also like to bring some of the skis up for the powder test and we can test them at Wiggly's. Um, so that's how I— yeah, it worked out great. I thought, you know, it was for us a really good marketing opportunity, um, to get Wiggly's as the powder test site. But for me, it was just a really— my— I remember my first time testing and what an awesome week. You're with your peers, all great skiers, you're testing fun gear. So I just— I love the experience. I did that for about a year and then went back the next year and Ian McMillan, who's the editor of the magazine, approached me and said, "Would you be interested in doing— writing a little bit of this?" So that was something that I really enjoyed and ended up doing about 5 years then as the test editor, so putting together all the results and trying to take all the data and put it together in a way that was readable for our readers.

So what's your favorite ski of all time?

Oh my goodness, man, holy cow. At the time, it would have been the Rossignol Bandit.

Right, okay. That really was a standout ski when it came out, was it?

I remember the Rossi Bandit XX, and I think that was, for me, the reason that that one stands out was because, um, at the time when skis were starting to get a little wider, give a little more shape, the, the XX, that the, the Rossi was kind of the first one that would be almost like a mid-fat. You'd almost call it a mid-fat these days. Yep. And I remember taking that ski, um, I remember taking that ski with me to Australia, and with the mixed conditions that we sometimes get in Oz— yep. That thing was unbelievably fun. Like, it just turned any run into a groomer, and it would— you could power down stuff with speed, still feel a carve. It was an unbelievable ski, and people were just like dying to try it, and it was, it was pretty new for its time. So for me, that was a standout ski for sure. There's been lots, but that one is, is definitely in the memory bank.

That's in the memory back. Yeah, cool. And then, so What about any— because have you just finished the recent testing?

No, so this was— unfortunately this was the first year that I've missed in a little while, so being over in New Zealand I wasn't able to test this year. So I watched lots of the photos coming in, but I haven't heard much feedback on what the guys were feeling.

Mm-hmm, sure, sure. I'm going to ask you some training questions. So you've been, uh, obviously a trainer, you know, when you worked in Parrish in Australia, you were sort of helping running some training there and training at Silver Star and training for Ski Adventures. You know, what's your sort of favorite approach to running a training session? How do you think a really well put together training session kind of goes? Like, what's your, what's your tactic or your approach? I learned to ski like all of us.

I learned to ski by showing up at Silver Star and chasing some amazing skiers around, you know, some of the Aussies like John who I mentioned. Kent Carpenter was another one, you know, really talented, freakishly gifted skier. Canadian guy like Matt Pinto. The list goes on, but I learned how to ski by just chasing those guys around and watching them and going, okay, well, if they can do that, why can't I do that? Or, you know, admiring their style. So for me, a great training session is one where people are going to get back and go, we skied a lot. That's first and foremost. And I think we've all been frustrated in different training sessions where you stand around and just, you know, it's paralysis by analysis where, you know, some people relate to that, but for most people I find they learn by doing things. So lots of movement, lots of trial. Let's go out and play and try different things and try to relate some of those feelings back into our skiing. But, you know, there's lots of time to talk on the chairlift.

Yep. Yeah, that's cool because I think, like you said, I mean, lots of people have different— you know, they learn sort of different ways and Yeah, getting out and actually experimenting and doing it kind of is a pretty natural way to learn, really, isn't it? I mean, you can't really teach your baby how to walk other than just walk around near them and then watch you, and then, you know, they're trying to copy you.

Absolutely. And then a great trainer, right, you're going to look at people, and a great trainer will be able to identify, you know, what's happening biomechanically that's preventing them from getting a feeling or or holding them back. And for sure, sometimes we do have to break it down, and don't get me wrong, drills work, and we have to sometimes take things back to basics. But I think a great trainer is smart enough to, to individualize things really well. And that's, that's where I think people go from being good instructors, good trainers, to great instructors and great trainers— when they, they stop being holistic for a whole group and can be really individualistic where they can just look at each person and figure it out really quickly, you know, make it work.

And I know you're, like, from skiing with you, just you have a really good positive approach, positive energy. I mean, what's your thoughts on, you know, like the kind of hard-ass line coach and, you know, the other person who, you know, the other end of the spectrum, like what do you think of the pluses and maybe minuses of those two sides?

For sure, I mean, I think just personally I know that I've always related probably a bit to the softer side, you know, but I think when you know you have had some of those no BS kind of coaches, and I do like that style too, you know, you shouldn't have to sugarcoat things, but We've all heard stories about people on examiner's courses or people on training sessions that have been reduced to tears because they weren't getting the kind of feedback that they need. And I think as much as, as the biomechanical feedback is important, I think you have to be able to read people and their psychology as well and figure out who responds to what. And now all that stuff can come, you know, from a chairlift ride and saying, well, what kind of sport did you do? You Somebody who grew up being coached is probably more apt to listen to just direct feedback, where somebody who hasn't maybe played a lot of organized sport might need a bit softer touch. Yeah, absolutely.

So, um, for yourself, is there like— were there some things, or are there still some things in your skiing like you like to focus on and work on? Is there you know, like a particular area, like, I don't know, rhythm or pressure control, or, you know, like, is there a certain thing that you find, like, when you really kind of get that going, everything just falls into place?

Yeah, for sure. I mean, I always found, you know, when I'm— because I was spending so much time in soft snow, yep, to be honest, I'd be you know, months at a time if I was guiding, you know, and not getting back onto a lift or back into the resort for— maybe not months, but weeks at a time. Um, you'd go weeks with your boots hardly done up, you know. I'd be— or, or maybe even in touring boots. A lot of the guiding work we'd do, you'd be in a touring boot. So there was always a transition in equipment when you'd go back from that and get back on a groomed run and trying to feel the inside part of your feet, trying to feel some angles again, because you know, now all of a sudden you're tightening your boots up a little bit. So for me, it was always a bit of a morning of just some good easy carving, you know, trying to tighten the boots down a little bit, get back on the inside part of the foot, and then I'd start to build up. And again, then working into short turns because I'd find your timing would be off a little bit going from some soft snow into, into harder, more firm snow for sure. That's probably not a bad That's probably not a bad— that's not a complaint because, yeah, it's hard to complain from skiing a bunch of powder. But I always love that feeling when you go and now all of a sudden be able to feel your boots again, you know, feel where you're standing and feel standing on an edge.

Yep. And so, um, so with so much experience powder skiing, can you maybe give some good training tips or hints to people that maybe that sort of side of skiing is, you know, something, you know, firm snow is all good, but when they get into this kind of uneven, um, not such a solid surface, uh, type terrain, what, what are some, like, what would be your top kind of tips for, for skiing in that kind of terrain? For sure.

I think the biggest one for me, when you think back to one of the One of the mantras that we'd always say a lot in coaching was, was minimal terrain, maximum speed, you know. And it was always trying to get people so that they didn't overturn the skis. And if you know what it's like, as soon as you get somebody on, on terrain that's too steep, they start to freak a little bit and, and rush that turn. Yep. And the biggest problems I've seen with people when they ski either powder or ski uneven snow is they're just in too much of a hurry and all of a sudden it's thrown their balance off so much that things become jerky and then they fall over. So what we would always try to do is just, you know, our first few warm-up runs in powder would get people terrain that they're really comfortable being in the fall line and that transition from turn to turn. So not rushing the transition, letting the skis kind of just fall in, let gravity do the work in the fall line. But then increase the edge angle a bit and have the ski just finish. And again, not, not holding on to that finish too long, but letting gravity pull the skis into the fall line again. So I really found that if you tried to chuck people into terrain that was too steep, it was just going to be a frustrating day. They were going to come away hating it. The right terrain can make all the difference for sure.

Yeah, yeah, cool. Um, excellent. So then like when Some people think that fat skis are kind of maybe a new thing. In heliskiing, they've been around for quite a while, haven't they?

Yeah, so the evolution of fat skis, it's a fun story, and I'll tell the short version, but basically back in the day, there was a guy they used to call Hillie, Rupert. The head designer for Atomic. And he used to come over to Wiggly's all the time because they had such a great relationship. But one year he came over with these fat skis that they had come up with, and Mike looked at them and he's just like, "Those things are ugly. Are you kidding?" Like, he wanted no part of them. He's like, "Not a chance." So Rupert kept saying, "Man, just put them in the basket. Bring them up." So Mike kept throwing them in the basket. Never skied on them. He was skiing with this group called the Terminators, and their main goal was to ski as much vertical every day as they could. And they had been skiing some pretty challenging snow one day. They got to the afternoon, a lot of the guys were burnt out, tired, and Mike thought, ah, you know what, I'll pull these things out of the basket and just give them a try. And within one run, he knew that the history of powder skiing was changed. He did one run on these things and just had— they had such an amazing float, such an amazing feel, but they weren't— they didn't feel like you were just cheating. And on the surface, they were still fun to ski. Yeah. And, um, the following year, the guys who won the World Powder Eights were on fat skis. That was the first time in competition that somebody tried them out, and they smoked the competition. And I would say probably those two events Not a lot of people maybe realize or tie those into the way that it charted the course for ski history to follow, but really those two events were pretty pivotal, pivotal in the way skiing has gone. Yep.

And like the uptake of fat skis.

Absolutely. I mean, and just like, just like good car technology filters down from Formula One, you know, we've always said like with racing, things filter back from the World Cup. Mm-hmm. But I think, you know, the fat skis, things filtered back as well. You know, people were using them in a real, a real specific environment, but then they filtered back into resorts and into everyday skiing.

Yep. And so now, do you, like, are you someone that will ski, like, do you choose the right tool for the right sort of job? You know, do you, are you one of those that now ski fat skis everywhere, or You know, what's your— no, um, I'm horrible.

I'm like, it's, uh, I just did a trip last year. We took a bunch of readers over to St. Moritz. We did a Ski Canada trip, really, really fun, fun trip to Europe. And, um, I remember packing for the trip and trying to be really, you know, having some economy of packing. Yep. And in the end, I'm like, okay, no, I got to bring these because you could have this condition. And then, oh, I've got to bring these because And I ended up— I sort of ended up with something about 90, 88, 90 underfoot, and then something a little bit fatter as well was what I settled on. But, you know, I could have brought an extra pair as well and been real happy. So I definitely love— I love every tool, you know. And I don't think that— I think we'd be selling ourselves short. I think if people just tried to have one tool that did everything Yep, I think you miss a lot of feelings. Like, imagine, you know, a ski like a slalom ski or really fun all-mountain kind of GS carver— the amount of feelings that you get on that that you just don't get as much of on a wider ski. I don't, I don't want to ever see people sell themselves short and just miss out on that.

Yep. And do you feel like after a day of maybe, you know, like a powder day in a resort where you're skiing, maybe you've chosen your fat skis, 100, 100, over 100 millimeters underfoot, and you know, the powder's all chopped up at the end of the day and you're skiing kind of firmer snow and groomers back to the chair. Do you find it's pretty hard on your body?

Yeah, it definitely can be for sure. And I don't know if you felt this as well, but you know, your body will tell you really quick if you're on a ski that's too narrow. You know, I find when I watch a lot of people, and even for myself, you'll feel that fore-aft gets challenged so much, you know, on a ski that's a little bit too narrow for the conditions. Yeah. Where if you're on that, that ski that's 100 or 100+ underfoot, it, it definitely smooths out those— I still love, that's one of my favorite ski conditions is that, that cut-up crud at the end of the day. Yeah. When you can still motor and do really high-speed GS turns through that kind of snow and just feel solid. Yep. To me, that's one of the funnest feelings, and that can be a bit more difficult when you're on a narrower ski if your fore-aft gets challenged. Yes.

Yeah, I guess that, uh, that kind of ties in with your comment earlier back at Charlotte's Pass, trying to find the crappiest snow. So if you can really ski well on that sort of stuff, then you can enjoy it and really, I guess, ski your best whenever that— you know, at the end of a powder day, you're still just loving it.

Yeah, and you know those great feelings when things are happening fast? You hear other athletes talk about it, like great baseball players or great race car drivers, they always talk about— great surfers, you know, talk about time slowing down a little bit even though things are happening really fast. When you kind of have a certain competency or maybe mastery of something, it's just a feeling like things are moving slow even though things are moving fast, and I love that feeling.

I can relate to that.

You're right in a state of flow. Absolutely, and it's amazing. You can talk about— our good friend Gord Brown always talks about focusing and having narrow focus or broad focus, but when you're skiing fast like that and things are slowing down, you take notice of all the little things around you. It's amazing. Yeah, absolutely.

So I want to be respectful of your time, and we're getting sort of close to the end, so a few last questions. I've asked this of some of the other guys, um, tricky one, but what's your, like, what's your definition of good skiing? If you see like a really good skier, no matter freestyler, racer, bump skier, whatever, what's— is there something that kind of ties it all in? What are you Yeah, I do.

I mean, there's two ways you can answer that. One is, might sound like a little bit of a cop-out, but over the years I've had a chance to guide some neat people, and one of them was a real famous surfer named Gerry Lopez, who's known as the master of Pipeline. Gerry had a great saying, and he said, you know, I think he stole it from somebody else, but he always said that the, the best surfer was the guy who was having the most fun in the water. Yep. So there's definitely a part of it there, Tom, for me, where, you know, someone who has just a great attitude and they're out having fun. Because I've, I've been out heliskiing with people who aren't the best skier but are having the best day of their life. Yep. That energy is amazing. But yeah, for me, if I, if I look at good skiing, it's athletic, it's, um, it, it's variable. And what I mean by that is it doesn't look stiff. I love watching people who have enough competency and athleticism that they can change things up. You know, you're going down and the terrain changes in front of you, and you have enough skills or repertoire that you can just change your technique a little bit to deal with whatever's in front of you. So for me, that functionality, it's— that's good skiing to me.

Yep, absolutely. Yeah, I think, Sammy, I don't know if you'll relate to this, but you know, you may be teaching someone about carving or short turns, and you know, at the end you get this kind of feeling that they think that everything you've taught them there is what you should be applying to everything else in skiing, rather than it's just, it's part of your tool bag. This is not the way to ski everywhere. It's just, you know, like this is a certain part of your repertoire.

Yeah, and how much fun is that when you try to explain to people how much fun skiing becomes when that's all it is, is you reach in your tool belt and you go, okay, well, these are the conditions I have, here's what I'm going to do, but, well, maybe if I mix a little of this in or I throw a little— it's like being a master chef, you know how much spice to put in for each dish you make.

Yep, yep, exactly. I can remember a day sort of running a bit of a clinic at Revelstoke for some people, and it was a pure whiteout. It was— it had rained all the way to the top 2 days before and then frozen, and we were sort of in an area over near, I think, the Ripper Chair, so where there's some trees, so at least you could kind of see a little bit. So, I'm there with these people that are kind of excited to ski Revelstoke and learn about, you know, skiing off-piste and trees and maybe bigger lines and everything. And we can't really do any of that. So, we went under the chair to the disgusting horrible coral reef kind of refrozen moguls and snow and just worked on kind of slipping and sliding around because that was about the only thing you could do was just take away all the edge you kind of had and really just pivot and slide around. And it was just another example of like, you can still have fun and learn and have a tool in your toolbox for these kind of conditions where everyone else is inside or down the bottom of the mountain drinking coffee.

It's amazing. I mean, to be honest, and that's great teaching because look at how much that's actually become a tool for a lot of great skiers. I love watching clips of guys, freeski contests, or guys that are skiing big terrain. Yep. And that really has become a huge part of everybody's repertoire. You want to lose a little bit of altitude, or you want to get yourself through a— you know, it's, it's almost like the big mountain version of the Ted Ligety where you float and sting. Yeah. So it's a cool— I love it.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so, um, Like, getting to the end, Ron, is there anything, like any words of advice for, you know, budding skiers out there, budding instructors, you know, maybe trying to crack through the next level or just make a difference to their skiing? Anything you'd—

any words of wisdom? For sure. You know what, every year, Tom, when we'd start a season, you know, and you'd get another group of sort of younger instructors or keen instructors, I would start my season every year, give people the exact same advice, and I still believe strongly in it to this day. If you're in the game that we're in, you have to be a sports fan. And I would tell people right off the start, if you're not, you know, become one. Start now. Get groups of people together that are in your training group that ski together, but more than that, You know, if there's tennis on, get together and go watch tennis. If there's a good footy game on, get together, go to the pub and watch the footy. I really strongly believe that for what we do, if you don't understand the passion of sport or at least can appreciate, you know, how much heart and effort athletes put in, it makes it really hard. And that might seem a little bit off the track of No, no. It takes to be a good instructor, but I think we do the same thing when you go out. You have to have some sort of passion for the sport and be able to pass that on, but you also have to have passion for other sports as well. So that's always my first piece of advice— be a sports fan. I like it.

Excellent. Well, thanks very much for coming and chatting with me today, Ron.

It's a pleasure, absolute pleasure. Hopefully we can do it again on a chairlift soon.

Yeah, definitely, and I wish you all the best. Is your ziplining thing— that runs all year round?

Yeah, so it does over here in New Zealand, the site that we have. We're in a little place called Rotorua, super fun, super fun town. I ride a gondola every day, but unfortunately there's no skiing here in Rotorua. Yeah. But it's not far away. We can get down to the South Island pretty easily, down to Queenstown. And some of the best skiing I had this year, we popped over to Australia and had a couple of good days at Charleville Pass and Perisher. So I'm sure you and I will get a few turns this winter.

Definitely. Definitely. And I really hope you enjoy— when does Crankworx start? This coming weekend?

So March 24th, we're going to have— 24th to the 28th, we're going to have probably 100 to 130 of the world's best mountain bikers here on site. Awesome. Yeah, I'm psyched. I can't wait to watch. It's going to be really cool. See, going back to being a sports fan.

Yep, exactly. Who's the big name you're looking forward to seeing throwing some massive, massive stuff? There's a guy named—

I don't know his last name, that's horrible. His name is Kelly and he's a Kiwi rider, but he's actually been the guy who's built most of the slopestyle course over here. Wow. And so I want to see if he gets a little bit of a home field advantage. Yep. And one of my staff members, a kid named Eddie Schreier, who's a guide for us here on the zipline, is— he's got an entry into the enduro event here. So definitely my heart's with Eddie, making sure that he has a good result in the enduro. Cool. Awesome.

And the name of your zipline place is?

Yeah, so we're— our company is called Zoom Ziplines. And we've got sites, a bunch of sites all over the world, but the cool site here is at Zoom Ziplines Rotorua.

Awesome. I thought I'd do a little bit of promotion for you. Thanks. Thank you for your time.

Awesome, Tom. Great to talk to you, my friend.

You too, Ron, and we'll speak soon.

Awesome, bud. Bye.

This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach. And one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate SkiIQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens. But Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best SkiIQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps. And to be honest, my own highest SkiIQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of turn tempo, so basically your turns per minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, it's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, Check out Carve, and a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.