What does it take to make the PSIA Demo Team? Kevin Jordan and Troy Walsh

Welcome to a Big Picture Skiing podcast episode. I'm your host Tom Gellie, and I know this is a rebrand, this is a rename. It used to be the Global Skiing Podcast, but now it's the Big Picture Skiing podcast for obvious reasons. I'm just trying to consolidate everything, keep the brand consistent, so I hope people don't mind. But if you're looking for it now, you find it through looking up the Big Picture Skiing podcast. This week, Sam and I sit down and we chat with Kevin Jordan and Troy Walsh, two new fresh members of the PSIA National Demo Team. So this is a group that's selected every 4 years and it represents the top, like the cream of the crop, the best instructors in America. And it's a really rigorous, difficult, hard process to go through. And so I thought it'd be really interesting for people to listen to firsthand experience from Troy and Kevin about their journey to making the team. So hopefully it inspires some people out there that are thinking about doing this someday. And I think you'll get the message like, never give up. If you really want this and it's something you want to make and do, you'll be able to do it. And you'll get some ideas and some insights into what these guys did perhaps differently to make it. Alright, let's get into the interview.

First of all, hey guys, I just want to say, uh, congratulations on making the PSIA demo team because that's a, a huge feat. And I know it was, uh, you know, quite a few months ago you made it, but formally, well done.

Thanks.

Yeah, it feels like it's a long time ago, but I can tell you that things are sneaking up now. I bet.

I bet.

It's pretty awesome. Tom and I, like, we've been chatting about trying to get this podcast together for ages I think, um, Tom, like, like, for us, it took a while for us to sink in that both you guys had made it on as well. Like, like, it's been a long time coming, and I mean, yeah, it's an amazing, um, uh, achievement that you both got on.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I was just like, why don't we just start there? Like, how— maybe start with, um with Troy, like, how was the moment you got your name read out? Like, how long have you been aiming to try and make the demo team?

Yeah, boy, um, and I'll start right in the beginning, right where, you know, when the name was called out with the last name of Walsh, I was holding on the anchor, man. I was just waiting. There was not a whole lot of people in the room left. I knew my name was at the ass— at the tail end of the, uh, of the— figured that they're going alphabetically and there's not very many pins up there. So I was starting, starting to sweat a little bit. Um, but finally, yeah, finally got called. You know, I've been on the other side of it where I've been in that same room and didn't get called. And that one's, you know, so it's pretty easy to run back to that moment of being like, oh man, it happened again. What's going on? Um, so yeah, it was pretty exciting to get your name called finally. Um, it's been since, uh, my first tryout was in 2004 and, um, 2004 and 2008 had a really good run at it and, um, didn't go in '12, didn't go in '16. And then, then this one was like, yeah, we got work unfinished, you know, time to, time to go back to work and see what happens.

Yeah, quick— quickly on that, like, why did— why did you decide? Like, because 2004, that's a while ago. And you actually mentioned just before on the call that you are the oldest rookie to make the demo team. So how old are you? And like, why the— why the charge for it?

47 years old. Um, 47— yeah, I'll turn 48 next month. And, um, I guess it just, it's something that it just has always felt like it's something I wanted to do. And, um, you know, whatever hiccup happened from, you know, not being selected for, for to go to a tryout and was kind of like, all right, maybe, maybe it's time to actually reflect on what it is that I do. You know, when, when I'm having great coaches and mentors say you're not ready. And instead of just charging ahead and bulling ahead, not making those changes, I'm the kind of guy that if someone tells me I need to make a change, it might not sink in too quickly, but at least once it does sink in, I'm gonna go to work on that change. And I hope that what I showed this time, people saw, you know, hey, that's Troy Walsh, but that's a different Troy Walsh. And he made, he made bigger, bigger improvements in his understanding, his presentations, and his skiing ability.

Yeah, um, go ahead, Sam.

I was just wondering, Troy, do you know anyone who's older than you that's ever been a rookie on the PSI demo team?

Um, no, no, I think I am. I think I'm it. I think, yeah, exactly. I got my cane all set up so I can go to training this next couple weeks and Got a wheelchair assist off the plane, so I'll be all good.

So potentially the oldest PSA demo team rookie. I guess anyone who's listening to this, if anyone knows someone who's older, please let us know. But I mean, that's an amazing, amazing achievement, man.

Thank you. Pretty proud of it. Hope someone can take it.

And before we— I just keep following this line of like, uh, chat here. So what, what specifically did you need to change in your— maybe in two parts, your skiing and the way you presented things?

Um, I think my skiing, I, um, I always tended to be— or I still tend to do this— I tend to drift towards accuracy more than power. So I think I needed to add a little bit more of, um, of allowing my athleticism to show versus just being dead-on accurate all the time. And it was hard to do that in a tryout setting because you end up, I mean, you're, you don't want to, you don't want to have a big bobble, but you, you know, and your nerves and all this other stuff, you're trying to ski, ski where you can. And, um, that's what I think, that's my big, my big goal, like these next few years of showing more athleticism at, you know, at any event, just because my tendency is not to be there. Um, presentation-wise, I think a lot of it was just instead of— for me, instead of thinking that I needed to have the right answer that the evaluator was looking for, or the right answer to the question, instead it was, this is what I believe, These are the fundamentals. This is how my thought falls into these fundamentals. And if that's good enough, then great. And it made me comfortable in my— in talking and speaking to team members that were in my group and helping, you know, showing them things and just being like, yeah, you can— I can coach you guys. And it's not like, oh, is that the right answer? It doesn't matter. You know, this is— I see this. I know I see this. You need to do X, Y, and Z to be able to achieve this better. And that was, that was the stuff that just felt like it, it clicked.

Yeah, yeah, real sort of confidence in, in yourself and that, you know, know your stuff in a way.

It didn't help with the sleeping at all, but I can tell you, you know, it was a miserable week of sleep and eating. That was tough. I wish I had confidence in that.

Yeah, like you're just nerves, like you're just really—

wow, a lot of energy coming from the East Coast, coming from the East Coast and coming in from, you know, I was out there probably 7, you know, 9 days prior to the tryout, plus the tryout, so total of 15, 16 days. But coming in from the East Coast, I mean, I'm sub-1,000 feet, you know, above sea level, and where we were staying at Brack lodging, you know, condos where we were staying was at 9,000 to 10,000 feet. So all of a sudden you start tracking your heart rate and your respirations. It's like, man, it's never coming down. It's not, you know, heart rate is staying high all the way through the night. You're looking at it like, no wonder I can't get any good night's sleep, you know, with your heart beating at 80 beats a minute.

Yeah, wow. Jesus.

Interesting.

That's a good point.

Yeah, there's definitely— there's an article in there somewhere, you know. I haven't quite wrapped my head around it, but there is, you know, how do you get your body to acclimatize faster, you know. It's— man, it's— that was miserable.

So maybe that's the real one you'd change, like, is maybe figure out how to manage that better before going to a— yep, lucky. Where's the next indoor ski? Is, uh, Levi? Yeah, Finland. So it's not very high up.

Fantastic.

Yeah. Hey Kevin, how about you? How was the, the moment your name got called out?

Uh, yeah, it was, it's pretty incredible. And this is awesome, thanks for having us on. I actually I'm really stoked that Troy is on as well because I'm learning more about his story too. And for me, like, this was actually my, my fourth attempt. So a little different than Troy in the sense of I just started in 2008 and then went in 2012, went in 2016 and kept getting like closer and closer. But I had been there before in 2016 when, you know, they do it alphabetically by last name and, and, you know, it's like Stephen Heffelbein. It's like, oh yeah, everybody, woo. And then it was like Brenna Kelleher. And I can remember like thinking back to 2016 and then, you know, my wife was there and my son was there and I like texted her. I was like, well, didn't go so well. And she's like, how do you know? And I'm like, well, I've been to this before. I know, I know how it works. So this time around it was pretty funny. They, they're like Stephen Heffelbein. Okay, cool. Like everyone's clapping. I'm like, okay, Rogan, like say my name, say my name. And then he said it. And, and I totally blanked like on what, my name was, like, I couldn't remember what my name was. I was like, that's awesome. Congratulations to Kevin. He should probably get up. And then I was like, oh, wait a minute. That's me. That's me. And so I like went up there and I really have no idea, like what happened, you know, after that, I know that it was like, we were up there and we're hanging out and we're trying to figure out how to take like pictures together and things like that. I'm like trying to FaceTime, uh, like my wife and, you know, kids and, and then like. My phone just exploded with like text messages. I took a screenshot of it. I think I had like 147 text messages at one point because this was the first time they had ever done it live through like a live stream through YouTube. Um, so normally it would always be kind of that telephone tag, you know, kind of thing. And, and I think, uh, it was awesome. They, you know, they, it was their first time doing it, so there's a little bit technical difficulties to get it started, but once they got it going Uh, it was pretty cool because I had Tom— I know you were, you were on there watching out, watching from a lot of other people. So there was a lot of communication that went on right then and there of like, congratulations. And it was, it was awesome, you know. And it just felt so cool to be, uh, kind of, kind of loved. But it was definitely that, that one moment of, wait a minute, like, did he actually say my name? Like, are you sure about this, you know? And, uh, But it's been awesome and it's been a cool, you know, kind of road to get there. Similar to Troy, my kind of experience was like in 2008, you know, I thought I was like, I thought it was like a good skier and I showed up there. And at that point, all you had to be was a level 3. And, uh, you know, sure enough, like they made a ski cut and I was like nowhere close, you know, it was like, thanks for coming. See ya.

Bye.

You know? And, uh, actually we hung around. Partly because the place that we had had some really awesome video games and like the, the VRBO that we were staying at. But we also just kind of hung out and kind of watched the process, which I think is like super helpful. And then in 2012, they changed up the process where it's a little bit more of an application process where you had to submit some videos and articles and, you know, kind of show what you could contribute to the team ahead of time. And that they actually didn't make any ski cuts that year. It was like the first year they just really did an invite only and got everybody through the process. So everybody got to be there. Uh, and then in 2016, they kind of did—

How many people, how many people did you reckon? There was like— People that don't really know, I mean, it's probably, it's different in each country, but PSIA, like how many people probably apply to try out?

I think in 2012 there was about 40, Um, I think there was maybe 42. And the only reason I know that is because obviously there were probably some more, but there could have been some injuries, uh, is because Earl Saline, he was at the NSAA and, and before— now he's at the NSAA, but before he was at PSIA, I kind of hunted him down in 2012 and I was like, well, was I like, you know, you took like 11 people plus, plus a coach and, you know, so there was like 12 people that came out of that. There was also some freestyle specialists. So that made up the team of 15, but that was a separate selection. So in the Alpine, they took 11 there, or there was a captain. I think Michael Rogan was a captain at that go-round. And so they took essentially 12 people. And I was like, was I like number 13 or was I number 42? Cause that would really help me out, like understanding like how I'm doing here. And he's like, well, take this with a grain of salt. You know, you were kind of like in the bottom of the top third. So like did the math and 42 divided by 3 was 14. So I was like, I was 14. And so I looked at him and like pulled a full Jim Carrey and just was like, uh, so you're telling me there's a chance? And, uh, he was like laughing about it. I was like, yeah, yeah. So, so yeah, so 2016, they kind of did this similar, a similar piece of the puzzle, but then there was this regional endorsement that you actually needed. Uh, well, like supposedly you were supposed to have. And, um, in 2016, I actually didn't scale that well in the regional process. And actually didn't get the regional endorsement that, that go-round, but I worked my butt off on the application. Um, I had gotten some letters of recommendations from people that I knew probably would be selectors, like a Mike Porter, Carol Levine, and had worked with them on saying, hey, you know, I, I really want to go to this. I really want to throw my name in the ring. You know, I really want to try. And somehow I got invited. Without the endorsement. And at that point it wasn't as clear-cut. Now you actually need it. And going through the 2000, you know, it was 2019 for the 2020 tryout. I was selected to the regional team for Rocky Mountain. So that was actually a little bit of a confidence boost, but to your point, Tom, it was definitely a little bit of an underdog story. And also, you know, there were times that I was asking myself, you know, am I just doing like the definition of insanity, like doing the same thing over and over again and hoping, expecting a different result when essentially I'm just keep doing the same thing. And so I think similar to Troy a little bit was, um, confidence, you know, confidence in myself, confidence in my skiing. Uh, it's very easy to put, you know, a national team member up on a, on a pedestal. Someone like a Michael Rogan has been doing it for a long time and, and being like, am I in that same boat? But an interesting thing really happened in 2016 where I had made it through to the day to the final ski cut. I can remember in my group, I had Jennifer Simpson, I had Eric Lipton, I had Ryan Christofferson. And, uh, it was like the first time that it really felt kind of like they were all peers for me, like through that whole process. And something that really like stuck out to me where, yeah, I wasn't successful that time around, but it, it just, it felt different. Like I was closer than I had ever been before potentially. And, uh, I had some things I needed to do and, and then You know, coronavirus hit and which obviously, you know, terrible thing. And my wife is a healthcare worker and, uh, but it also paused and made us do a selection a year later. And that I think actually really helped me personally because like there was no control that I had over this thing that was happening to the world. And I had two options and I can remember having this like moment of either I could be mad about it. It's something that I can't do anything about, or I could like focus all that. Energy or frustration into, I'm gonna get as good as I can. I've never had an extra year, uh, you know, like, not like handed to me, but I've never had a delay of an extra year. And at that point, they just told us it wasn't going to happen this year. We don't know when it's going to happen, but we'll give you more information in the future. And they had delayed it essentially a year. And, uh, you know, it's just something that I think it— I had, I had built up enough confidence and I just it just kind of helped to really reflect and, and more time to spend on those things that I was, that I was working on.

Yeah, great. And so now, like, what are you guys like? Troy, what— like, you mentioned the athleticism. Like, is that your main focus coming in these— like, with your skiing, have you got some goals coming into this season? Um, start with you. Yeah, technically, because I guess why I'm asking this is like some people listening to this are already pretty good skiers, so they'll be interested to know that reason. But then other people maybe are not as great skiers, so they'll be interested in, in it for a different reason. But what's a demo team member working on in their skiing?

I think a lot, you know, you know, and I'm kind of just thinking about last season and seasons prior, I am— I think I went really hard, you know, like I said earlier, I went hard accuracy, which kind of can— which when deliberate, when you get very deliberate, it can look, look slow. It can look, you know, it can have that you're not carrying a lot of speed. Um, so there's two pieces. I want to be— I want my feet to move faster. I want, I want to be able to be able to get from one foot to the other foot faster, but still let the ski really perform well in all phases of the turn. And I also want to, you know, and when I think of the athleticism side of it, it's going to build through that. It's going to build through just feet moving down the hill, and how do I make that happen? And, um, a lot of it is— a lot of it is being stronger, you know, there's no doubt about that. Just means being a stronger version of Troy Walsh than I have been, but also skiing with a little bit more of an intense— or intent of, I want to be able to make my feet do this and the skis to do that. Really paying attention more on the— on those types of things, you know. I think I've got pretty darn good chops when it comes to, you know, accuracy. I don't want to lose all my accuracy and replace it with just speed and, and, and whatnot, but I want to be able to blend those two pieces well to be able to make that happen. So I know how I'm gonna— I don't know how I'm gonna do it yet. I mean, yeah, it's a great idea, but I don't know how I'm gonna do it, so Yeah, because what's your local mountain? My local mountain is Sunday River.

Okay.

Yeah.

And have you got some bigger ones on the—

on the East Coast? So it's, it's—

so you got some like steep bump runs and stuff like that?

Steep bump runs, hard snow. Um, I think a lot of it's like when you, when you start carrying speed in my place, the woods get up, get, get pretty close pretty quick. Um, and the bumps tend to tend to have some shine to them. So you run into that, it's going to push back pretty darn hard. So yeah, you got to be able to balance both of those pieces.

Yeah. So does that mean that, you know, running maybe training sessions, you're going to be— people joining your clinics are going to be maybe experimenting with the same stuff, right?

Yeah, you know, and I think a lot of it is that It doesn't, you know, when you, when you say go faster, it doesn't have to be— I don't have to go Marcel Hirscher fast. I need to go faster for me. And as if we can play around with those aspects and in almost any type of skiing or any valid, any level of skiing, we can go just a little bit faster. We're going to feel what the ski does differently in the snow, feel what our body does differently to be able to react to those forces. I think that's really the game that I'm, I'm interested in playing is like, okay, How do I need to move? What rate of speed am I going to move differently? And move from there and kind of build that into the trainings that I do and, and lessons that you do. It's like, okay, great, you know, if you feel comfortable with that walking speed, maybe let's try going that fast walking speed and see what happens, just to get people more comfortable with that, because speed is a part of the game when we are skiing.

I think it's a pretty good point, Troy, because I Tom, like, like quite a few clients we've worked with, we like— I, I remember, um, just experiencing them, like, they, they get their head in the doing and they lose the, the idea that, like, you actually need speed and you need forces acting on you for a lot of what we want to achieve in skiing to actually happen. Like, um, even Tom, today I was chatting with, uh, your Emma Emma Nesbitt, and she was saying how big breakthrough she had with you was the fact that you said to her, okay, like, let's add some speed. And then she said for the first time she felt what the centrifugal force actually was, right? And I think like that goes to show like what, what Troy's saying, like, you know, you can be even, uh, even more accurate with speed because you have forces acting on your body. Like, you need some force acting on your body. You really need to feel that. That's, um, yeah, it's a really, uh, damn good point.

Yeah, like, what about— because, you know, Sam, probably out of all of us here, is the most qualified one for dealing with speed and, and forces, right? You know, being in a world championships a couple of times. What do you think, if you reflect, Sam, on your time, you know, training, were there some of the what were some of the maybe the best ways that was brought to you? Was it the fun free skiing, you know, with some of your crazy friends, kid friends down the bluff? Was it some challenging courses? Like, yeah, what do you think really helped?

Yeah, it's a— that's a really good question. I think like when I was really young, it was more about like as a kid just bombing around the mountain and going really fast. You know, and, and we always as kids were like, you know, like, let's go like faster than, say, like the ski patrol could catch us, you know. I'm just like, just really dumb stuff, right? Um, but, but, uh, yeah, I mean, when I was older, I think, um, taking speed into really difficult terrain, uh, was great practice for my ski racing. And then also, I think, Tom, you've brought up a couple times when I skied with you in the Bluff, um, and I remember there was a period where I was trying to basically always do like full-paced GS turns like through mogul runs and stuff just to practice for dealing with like ultra bumpy Super-G and downhill courses, which is very common. Um, but another thing was also skiing on injected slopes, so skiing on ice. So I think going back to Troy's point, like being on the East Coast, you have a bit more ice. And actually ice, you know, it's pretty intimidating stuff, but if you have a really well-propped ski and you have a sharp edge, you can actually use ice to really improve your technique. You get so much more precision on ice. You really get exactly what you put into ice back into your body. With a sharp ski. So I think, um, yeah, like, that would be a key thing that I would encourage everyone to do is like get out there on an icy day with a really sharp ski and just feel, uh, what that can do for your, your skiing. Because you can feel forces actually even on ice. You can feel a lot of dramatic force in your body even at a much slower speed because the feedback from from the edge is so, uh, so precise, so intense. Um, yeah, I'd say that's, um, like the things that stand out to me for sure.

Yeah. How's your— like, Troy, have you got, um, like, what do you ski on?

Oh, I ski on a Fist slalom. I see you on it. I ski on a, um, I got a U16.

That's very East Coast.

25-meter GS that I really like. Um, and then I tended, you know, a couple Beer League Cheater skis type, uh, GS type of ski. That's my, that's my go-to world. I really enjoy those, you know, back, you know, when I'm back home. They, as like, you know, one of the, one of the other examiners on the East Coast, he always says you want to ski on a ski that pushes, that pushes back at you. And I was really, I was like, yeah, man, that's, yeah.

Like, how long have you been on like a, a FIS type uh, ski like a while.

A long time.

Yeah, yeah, a long time. And I like amazing the difference, like, like, because I remember skiing in Sölden actually about this time, like 5, 4 years ago, and I was— I'd never skied a FIS slalom or, or a FIS type ski before. And I was running a camp for some Danish people, and then one of their guys, the vocal rep, he goes, oh yeah, you can try that. The vocal fist because I was like, all my friends have it, I've never tried it. Tried it and it was unbelievable. Like what Sam says, I actually felt the snow there was helpful to my technique. I felt more energy come out of the turns, the same slope, I could get more rebound and all that stuff. And it was just that the thing engaged with, with the snow. So I'm not saying like everyone should, uh, you know, get a, get a FIS ski because, you know, there's— they're quite stiff and hard to, to manage. But I think at a certain level, like to Sam's point, you really need— like, it's not just even the sharpness, the construction, the materials all have to work to be able to deal with that kind of snow type.

And I would almost say, I mean, it's almost— from my experience, it's almost easier for people to learn how to be able to absorb that energy, bend, let the legs bend coming underneath them when the ski's doing it, a lot of it for you. You know how someone tries— you watch someone, then they're trying to move but they don't have the timing right. You're like, it's all right there, but you don't need it because your, your timing's off. But when that ski comes ripping back at you, yeah, you have to move differently, and it's great, and it's a great learning tool.

This episode is sponsored by Carv, the digital ski coach, and one of the updates I've really enjoyed this season is the addition of separate SkiIQs for moguls and short turns. In the past, Carv scoring was mainly built around carving metrics, which meant everything was viewed through that lens. But Carv have gone deep on that research and completely separated what makes a great short turn or mogul turn different from a carved turn. To give you an idea of how accurate it's become, the person at the top of the Carv leaderboard right now isn't a carving specialist, it's Olympic mogul skier Matt Graham. So the best SkiIQ in the world at the moment is coming from someone who lives and breathes bumps, and to be honest, my own highest SkiIQ is also in the moguls, which makes sense because that's my favorite type of skiing. What's really exciting this year is the addition of turn tempo, so basically your turns per minute. It's such a simple external output that's incredibly fun to play with. So good skiing isn't just about edge similarity or parallel skis, it's about how you interact with the terrain and whether you can change your tempo on demand. So seeing numbers like my quickest tempo of 117 turns per minute in the bumps gives you something concrete to compare, refine, and work toward. I've been working with Carv since 2020, and every year I'm genuinely impressed with how much the product evolves. They keep expanding what you can measure, and they're covering more and more of the turn types that skiers actually use all over the mountain. So if you're interested in tracking not just your carving but every turn you make on the snow, check out Carv. And a big thanks to the team for supporting this episode.

Totally, that's so good.

How—

I want to ask, uh, Kevin. So, so Kevin, like, you tried a bunch of times in a row Right, um, I want to know, like, uh, and we worked pretty closely together last season, right? So I have some ideas in my head, but I want to hear in your words, like, what were the— like, you know, how did you break the definition of insanity?

How—

like, what did you do differently? Like, if you could pick, like, your, your two key things that you changed last season, um, I'd love you to break them down for us.

Yeah, the, um Well, first off, I got some really good coaches in the sense of Tom and, and Sam, because, um, I've actually never met Sam in person, but I will say some of the stuff and some of the footage that you had that you showed me from your World Cup experience has definitely helped. And then Tom, I got to ski you on run in Aspen. And, um, I think the biggest thing that changed for me is like, I'm kind of the exact opposite of like of Troy. Like I took everything with speed and power and I could hide things and my accuracy was just not existent, but I wasn't afraid to charge down some stuff. Cause I had been over to like Austria a couple of times, like learning how to race, you know, and it was just like, clearly you need a GS ski or a FIS ski over there for sure. Cause you're on a glacier, but it was one of those things where I'm not 100% sure if I really knew how to. Operate it, but I was just hanging on and maybe I could like use some youth and athleticism. I could like kind of scapegoat into that part of the issue. But I think for me, the biggest thing that changed in this past skiing was, you know, I grew up a lot, like everybody was saying, you know, get forward, get forward, get forward. So I would get really forward at the end of the turn and almost like be too far forward. And now all of a sudden, like I had no grip. On the tail of my ski and my tail would break away, but I was either going fast enough to kind of mask it, or, um, I was athletic enough to kind of get out of it and get back in and, and go, uh, you know, kind of get the, the ski tip to engage and then, and then bend. But realistically I was pretty skiddy, you know, like, like on a minute level. Um, so the biggest thing that I remember skiing one run with Tom and we looked at some boot stuff and we had fixed some boots. And then, uh, he's like, I think you should watch my video for aft stuff. And I was like, okay, cool. I'll take a look. So I took a look and then I was like, oh my gosh, it like totally blew my mind because essentially I never, I was always too far forward that I never had a place like quote unquote neutral from a fore-aft, uh, realm to then move forward again to. So I'm not saying like you need to be back, back at the end of your turn, but you need to like, allow the ski tip to like, to glide a bit. And I had never had like the gliding sensation or the skis kind of deflecting, uh, underneath me. And so I would say like, that was the biggest change that I made. How I did that was actually through Sam's help because Sam sent me a video of, I think Sam, it was you doing your CSI level 4 short turns. And you know, like it's, it's such great coaching cuz you're like, so nonchalant about it, saying, you're like, no big deal, I'm kind of like a World Cup racer, a pretty good skier. Here I am like trying the highest level in Canada for my highest level certification in Canada.

It would be his— it was probably his like, like the APSI, sorry. Oh, APSI, all right, perfect. Like level 4 type short turn.

Turn, yeah, yeah. And it wasn't, uh, I don't, I don't think that was a level 4. Like I haven't done a I guess I'm level 4, but it would have been like, I think, level 3. Yeah, actually, you know what, just side note, actually that wasn't— it was like from— I was free skiing with a client like a couple years ago, and actually that was on a set of touring skis with my touring boots. But I think a part of that at the time, Kevin, was we were talking about you being really forward as well.

Yeah.

And, and I think that was a part of the, the things as well. I was like, I was like, here's a touring bird, so I know I can't be too forward in this.

Yeah, right.

I have to be, uh, more centered.

Um, but yeah, that was, uh, yeah, but you showed him some, some pretty aggressive, like, dynamic short turns on, on a pretty steep— yeah, slope.

Yeah.

So back to you, Kevin.

No, it's all good.

It was back to you.

Sam, basically, like, I just remember like on the video, you're like, yeah, Tom and I were talking and we think you should do it like this. And that's all you said. And then you just showed the video. Now I'm pretty visual type of guy. So that actually worked. Like my preference is to see, like, show me, show me how to do it. Don't tell me, don't, you know, like you can tell me that later, but let me like see it first and let me go kind of try it. So like right away I was like, oh my gosh, no one's ever like showed this to me, you know, or they've, or they, they've tried to, but just hasn't like resonated the same way. Right. I'm sure plenty of people have actually tried to do it. So for some reason it kind of stuck, cause it was like, oh, I could actually see like the skis deflecting. I could see like the energy carrying you across the hill. And then I started to experiment with that and then I tried it. Um, and then I sent you guys a lot of video to see if I was on the right, the right track. And so I think that was like, those are the kind of the two biggest things was one, trying to have a better picture of like, what am I trying to do? And the cool thing about that was like the short turn was like, it's almost like we have a bomber short turn everywhere. Then when these tasks come into play in the selection, you can manipulate what you're trying to do out of the short turn. It's very similar to like the time that I've spent in Austria when, uh, like in— and I'm based at Snowmass. So the Aspen Ski School is very like, we do a race clinic and it's very much slalom based because Uh, we don't have a ton of width on that run, but also like, I think the slalom turn is like, it's just more fun to do shorter amounts. And I remember talking to the Austrian coach and he's like, why do you always want to train slalom? I was like, so you can go back to Aspen and like, look good. And he's like, he's like, no, no, no. Like the GS turn, you need to figure out how to do GS because the slalom turn is a shorter GS turn and a Super-G is just a bigger GS turn. And the downhill, he's like, that's for crazy people. And I'm like, good. I don't want to do that. Um, but I think it's something that was really helpful to be like, just focus on that and actually train, not necessarily like, I think this is an important point, but like not train like the task. Cause every single selection that I've been at, there have been tasks that I've never seen. I've never done, I've never practiced, but get good at some of those fundamentals in that skill of the short turn that then you can apply or kind of adjust. Like if they were a little, you know, different dials, you can adjust what you need. To then set yourself up for the task. And I think in my previous attempts, I would just take a lot of speed at the get-go from the task. And it's like, well, you know, he definitely took it down the hill, uh, but there was no accuracy. He might've made one turn and they asked us to make 6, you know? So, um, I don't know, something like that. So I think those are the two biggest things. Sam was like, just getting some good coaching and some of the visual stuff definitely helped. And just seeing, you know, some of, some of your actual skiing and doing like comparisons mine to yours was super beneficial for me personally.

Yeah, I think, um, we did a lot of comparisons and I was pretty impressed, Kevin, with, um, how you were able to like take those comparisons and then implement changes in your skiing like rather quickly. Like you had a really big, uh, change throughout the season. It was pretty amazing. And, and actually that's, it's insightful to hear what you said now because I didn't know that, you know, every time there's like a new task or something, right? And, and you certainly— because when you went in, you know, you were doing like 3 short turns, then across the hill, another 3 short turns, like you're practicing this kind of demo style. Um, and you were like really good at, at adapting when you hadn't been doing that the whole season. So I think it's pretty cool that, um, that that training allowed you to to, you know, improve those base fundamentals that just allowed you to be able to do this, like this, these kind of tasks, like the demo style that you were doing.

Yeah, the other thing that really helped too is I had another gentleman named Mike King who was in the class with me, and he's based here at Snowmass. So I had this— what I like to call him my study buddy. But essentially, as we did the classes with, you know, Tom and yourself, Sam, Um, you know, we could then kind of like compare notes from it. And, uh, you know, I told you guys before Troy came on, but you know, the class was something that I was a little hesitant at first because I'm like, ah, you know, I've been to these like selections and I've come like somewhat close, but why, you know, why, why do I need to get some coaching? And what was hilarious is like every single time there was always like this, oh, there's the price of admission. I've never thought about it that way. I've never done it that way. Or, you know, Tom's like, you know, he's giving you coaching feedback of like you doing this move, and I've never like attempted that move. And it doesn't mean like my body can't do it, but I'm just not like— I wasn't used to it. And that blew me away that I was like, wait a minute, how come I can't like do this? How come my body's like not being able to do this kind of stuff? And so that's what really, you know, that also to help change a lot of things of how I thought about you know, from the boots up and what I see with in my boots and that kind of stuff too.

So I mean, like, I guess, you know, I'm, I'm wondering because I, I'm sitting here like as this guy from Australia. I started skiing downhill when I was 22, so not all my life, um, but I'm obviously like really into it, put a lot of time learning about it. Like, what— why did you guys decide to do— like, maybe Troy, you start. Like, why did you decide to do this? Like, we did this body prep program. So Troy didn't do as much like of the coaching side of things, um, but you did this program before the season. And I know you're saying you need to get your, your body ready because you realize you had the accuracy but you need some strength and everything, but But why did you choose to, you know, come over, like, to the Big Picture Skiing sort of thing? Like, where did that come from?

There was a handful of videos that, um, that I've watched, and I'm like, I, I liked your approach. I was like, I can buy into that idea, I can, I can do that. And then I thought it was kind of funny because you guys did that. I was in the initial program. I was in the prototype program.

Yes.

Yeah.

All right. You know, I threw my name in there and I was like, yeah, they're not going to talk to me. And then, you know, maybe this isn't going to be geared in. And then all Sam gives a shout out and I'm just like, all right on. I'll, I'll love to, I'd love to talk about this stuff. I, I, it, for me, just to, um, to hear different ways of explaining things that I may may have heard or not have registered or haven't been able to apply into my understanding or my body. I was hooked on it. So it's like, this is just— I think that's the learner in all of us, is that if you can just— we can just listen and just try to try something different, you know, step out, step away from your world and try it. And see what happens. And, and I hate to say it, you know, you get— the farther up the food chain you get, yeah, the less and less feedback you tend to get throughout your stuff. So you have to be able to become your own coach. And if you're, if you're struggling with a little bit, maybe it's good to go outside of your, your initial circle, that of your, of your group, and just, and have someone else with an unbiased eye that doesn't know you, to just look at how you move and then give you the feedback. And you guys are perfectly timed for that just because I've never skied with you guys. I knew your Tom was in a, you know, a PSI demo, you know, demo team, you know, Interski team guy. Sam, you know, from just your video of World Cup, World Champion stuff, it's like, man, these guys don't know me from Adam, so might as well They're not gonna call any, they're not gonna just be like, ah, you're this because you're from that area. It's like, no, you just move differently or you need to move this way to become a better skier. So that nailed it for me. That nailed me. And you guys didn't care about PSA and stuff like that. You're like, ah, whatever. Who's this dude from Maine?

Yeah, I think like that, to that I think is, like as an outsider, the two of you guys, I see that as important because for, like, you know, for Sam and I, this idea of perspective, just being able to view the same thing from multiple angles and not judge it, you know, from multiple angles, just see it and understand it, appreciate it. Um, I just, I just find that really interesting that, you know, you guys sort of came in like that before, before this season. So I think it's really great.

Yeah, I think it's an opportunity.

Yeah, it was a huge opportunity just to have unbiased, you know, I think you're tight in the ankle, okay, fantastic, show me how not to, you know. And there was— yeah, that was a lot of the stuff that we'd hear. So it was— I'm thankful for it, appreciate it.

Do you still, like, do you feel you've got some— it did like bring some greater body awareness? Even because I know you said you're the accuracy guy, right? So you obviously have some pretty— you know, you're pretty in tune with your body.

Did that—

do you think it leveled up a little bit more?

Yeah, I do. But I— you know, the unfortunate thing with COVID is that there was not a lot of skiing available back home, so I didn't get an all— I think I had about 30 days prior to the tryout on snow. So I was— was I as tight as I could be? No. Was I as accurate as I could be? No. But there is a lot of the stuff that we did in that program that's still in my notebook, and I'm like, yep, I'm still playing with these things. I'm still working to it. This year is looking like it's going to be a much better year for being on snow, so I'm— I can't wait to see what it feels like, looks like at 60 days, 90 days, 100 days, you know, really getting some time on snow and really dialing it in, making sure that things are tight.

Yeah, I was just saying, Tom, that like, you know, I get to, you know, meet you and you come to do some clinics in Aspen, which was awesome. And even though like that, I like jokes, I'm like, oh, that one run kind of like changed my life. But it did in some ways because like, to similar to Troy, it's like, okay, here's a different perspective. There could be some merit to this. I'm not gonna, I'm just gonna learn as much as I can. Well, then, you know, on March 15th, all the lifts shut in Colorado and I started to like look more at Big Picture Skiing. Like basically what I was doing was trying to like work out from home and then still keep my mind engaged about skiing somehow. So I started like, I just remember like having all those conversations of like, I would watch another video and I was just like kind of buying like a video at a time. And then I was like, ah, I should just join. So I just joined. And then I saw like all the library that you had and I was like, oh my gosh. And then I just started like asking you questions, you would get back to me like, you know, like within like a couple hours. And I was like, whoa, what's— okay, so this guy is, he's on top of it. And I would just ask like as many, what about this and what about that? And those interactions then created like some dialogue to be like, okay, now I understand why you're coming at it that way. Okay, that's where I was thinking about it this way. And so when, you know, you had said like, oh yeah, we're doing this course, it was really interesting to me because I just remember I never met Sam. Uh, Sam's in Sweden. I had to figure out like a time that would work. I was like, I'll just get up at like 4 in the morning. I'll just talk to him. And so like, I'm half asleep, but he's just like, are you gonna, are you gonna do the work? And I was like, yeah, of course I'll do the work. Like, why wouldn't I do the work? You know? And I started doing the class, but the crazy thing about the class, like my class itself, is that we made some connections with other people in it that then all of a sudden, like, class was over and it was like, well, what, What do we do? And we like actually extended it and everybody was working towards the level 3 exam. I'm working towards my national team piece of the puzzle. And some of those guys like Brad, Brad Evans, for example, like he came out to visit in Snowmass and we went biking together. I've never met him, but like, it was like, okay, well let's go biking. And he's like, okay, yeah, we're like, can we put together a group at National Academy? So I think there's some like something to be said for the big picture family. Like when you join and you have access to a lot of those resources. But I'd also say the access to like Tom and Sam are obviously like, that's, you know, super valuable, but it's also your classmates and kind of the community that you guys have created as well really engaged me and was like, okay, here's some value. Here's something that's worth it. And Brad was even there at the national team selection on like day one, because he had been there for national academy and he's like stalking our group and he's taking videos and he's trying really hard not to get anybody's way, but he's like, He was just so— he had never been to one, and he's like, what were you thinking about? What were you doing? All that stuff. And it was awesome just to have like some support on the hill from somebody that, you know, he had never met before but spent a lot of time on Zoom with.

Yeah, like, I mean, I, I think it's pretty cool, like, um, if you guys don't mind, like, just discussing this concept of kind of like an online coaching kind of world, because we're all being exposed to it more now, you know, uh, COVID has done that to us. And like, you guys might not know this, but Sam, like, uh, he, he basically got in touch with me because he'd seen I was doing, you know, this Big Picture Skiing thing, and he was gonna just try and help with, you know, me getting more clients basically come to Big Picture Skiing. And I was like, you know, yeah, it sounds good, but I really want to do it on my own. You seem like you're really good at talking, you know, with people. I just, I really enjoy the coaching side of things. Get back to me if you want to maybe join forces. And then that was it. And then like a couple of weeks later, he's like, hey, I've been thinking about it. I think we can, I think we can do this thing. I think we can do like a group kind of program, you know, you should— you, Tom, you should stop doing one-on-one stuff. I was like, I don't know, I don't know if you can give quality in a group. And it's like, no, no, no. So, so it's like Sam has been great because he, he always sees the possibility in things. And I think that speaks to him getting to the World Champs as an Australian, you know, like that's It's not easy to do. So he's the kind of person that is always seeing the possibilities in it. So fast forward, I think we're quite like amazed at this, at what you can do with, with an online kind of, kind of world. And in some ways there's some pretty interesting positives, like, like one, the, the need to try and understand each other really well because we don't have that in-person sort of thing going on. I can't be there on snow, Sam can't be there on snow. So I think the communication gets, uh, really refined. The ways in which you explain things becomes more varied, and, um, and, and there's a bit more back and forth sometimes with, like what Kevin was saying, with a bit of, uh, reflection. So you watch something and you maybe don't say like your thoughts 5 seconds later, you've got hours. Or like, you know, Troy's doing an exercise, thinking about it, and maybe then asks the next week about, you know, why is it this way, why might this hurt, or why, why has it stopped hurting now, those sorts of things. So yeah, I just find it fascinating. I don't know if you guys have any comments around the—

like, yeah, I'll jump in because Actually, I gotta go pick up some kids from school quickly here soon. But, but, um, I think like we're just scratching the surface of what's, you know, possible. And I think that's something that attracted me to you guys as well as like big picture schemes, like, well, who's doing this and who's doing this well, and what can I learn from that? And how can I then apply some of the things that worked and didn't work, you know, or what, you know, my own experiences through it. So I think like the coolest thing for me was like You know, I, I, we also use Facebook Messenger a lot too. And like, there are times in the selection where like you just, you do a task and you think you like completely blew it. And like, it's normal thought process. Like, oh my gosh, that totally sucked. Like, yeah, they would never pick me or whatever. And what I would do is sometimes I would message Tom or a lot of times I would message Tom and Sam and whoever responded first, I could tell who was awake because someone else, like, cause there's I mean, they're total different parts of the world. So, so it'd be like, I'd be talking to one of them. No, that's all right. You know, like Tom would be like, no, don't worry about it, mate. Like move on. Like you're, you're good. You're good. You know? And then, then Sam would come on and different things. So I think there was some, um, something to be said for like that of like the real-time kind of like you were, you were there.

Yeah.

You were there like with me, just like, you know, talking me off the ledge sometimes, you know, when it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I did that. Uh, went too fast on this one, you know? Um, And then like, you know, you get— so like you could see some of that piece of the puzzle. So there was, you know, we're definitely talking through, um, some of those and that, that helps me because then I can reflect, but also like kind of claim it and move on from the experience or whatever in that particular scenario. But I think there's just something to be said for like, uh, you know, like there was a— we had a closed Facebook group, which was awesome because I could I mean, I submitted a lot of video. Troy, I don't know if you saw like some of the stuff, cause I know you're part of that group, but I was just getting it like once a week and throwing it out there. And there are other people in the group, like in the community that were commenting and that kind of stuff. But the cool thing for me was like, it was just holding me accountable to something. Like Sam said, hey, you're going to do the work. And I said, oh yeah. But I also needed to then provide video so that I could get some feedback. And it was like, it was, you know, as soon as I would send a video, I was like, I can't wait till they come back with some stuff. And then I come back with like the notes and take it to the snow like the very next day. And that's what I was like living for the entire season. Awesome.

That's, it's, uh, really cool. I think like I'm just seeing, uh, so much, so many cool things come up like between what you guys just been discussing. Um, one thing I want to, uh Says, so Tom and I, we actually haven't seen each other in over 5 years in person. And then we got started on this together. And I know Tom was saying before, like, oh, like, you know, Sam came in and said, like, let's do this. But actually, I mean, you know, Tom started this. Like, I remember, you know, when I was doing my degree in Stockholm, I was studying digital media. I always was thinking in the back of my mind, I was like, I wonder what it's like, what is possible like with teaching skiing like online. And I always thought it's, it's not possible, you know. I was like, I don't think it's gonna— it would ever work. And Tom actually had already kind of started this program in another sense just by doing privates online because people were asking, uh, Tom. And then, and then Tom was also helping me like with my body online too, and I was getting real results, right? So like, it kind of went on from there, and I, I started to realize as well, and this is like shortly before I chatted to Troy, I was thinking throughout my ski career, you know, we always had coaches taking video on the slope, and we would go and do video review. It never occurred to me the coach did not need to be sitting next to me for video review, you know, like that person could, could really be be anywhere. So, so why not like, uh, have people such as yourselves, guys, like number one, who, who, uh, want to be coached, but also like, like, um, try to provide a consistent coaching, like, like multi-week, like actually, uh, not, not just like the one-time private, which is so common in the industries like we work in. Um, And it turns out like through trial and error, like, yeah, you kind of can do it, you know? And you guys are like, uh, you know, you're like, um, proving that.

I gotta run, but one of the things that like, one of the funniest stories was like, I remember Tom, you said you, you kind of like guided me to be like, you should always challenge like stuff that we're saying. So you had talked about like the discipline of hands or something. I just remember like, all right, well, I'm going to go ski this run and shoot it like with my hands all over the place. Like sloppy and see what happens. And just to see what happens. Right. And then I would send that video to you guys and you'd be like, yeah, okay. Well, yeah, I guess you took our stuff a little literally there, but it was really cool because that experience was like, well, you know, if you don't— it kind of like proved to me, like, if you don't believe me, then go test it. But then we always had some kind of form, like through video to like go back to and be like, well, here's doing this just like sloppy hands example or whatever, which is really funny because it was like, would that make a difference to, you know, what the edges in the ski and the snow interface was happening? And yeah, it actually made a big difference between those two. But just that as an example of like, you know, like you're always like question it and challenge it and not do it like I wasn't doing it from like, oh, like Oh, what do they know? It was more like, let me see if I can figure this out and let me try it this way. And that to me really speaks to that collaborative approach of, you know, okay, so, so I'm going to try it, but let me try it to this degree or this spectrum. And then it was one of those things where I think it could have been used as a learning experience for everybody because it's like, well, maybe don't do what he did because it's like now you're ingraining like some, some bad habits, but It's that one piece of like what would happen.

It opens up a conversation, you know, and some context instead of just either believing me or not. You went and tried it, came back with your experience, then I can, you know, go, oh yeah, well actually, you know, what I really mean is like this. And so, you know, it's relative like this, you know, moving your hands is kind of like relative, not sloppy. And so, but I think you're totally right. Like, I think that's like, that's what I see both you guys have kind of done differently in this preseason is in general, you've just taken a different approach. Like just tried like to do things, reassess it and do it differently. I think that's the main message. Like if it's not working one way, like, like, yeah, you know, you got to check your ego. And so I think it's kudos to you guys. And like, you know, to, to be able to make that team, it's, it's really hard. Like, it is. I think there are multiple aspects you have to get right because you're in a pretty important role, uh, you know, across the, the country, you know what I mean? And so like the selectors have really more than just how well they present, how will they ski, and like, like there's like ethical things and, you know, so many things you're really being interviewed on.

It's great.

I think you guys should be really proud of yourselves for, for getting there. Are there any things you want to— I mean, I don't know if you've got time to answer this, Kevin, first before you go pick up your kids, but Yeah. Like, what do you want to bring since you're in this pretty important role? Like, is there anything you want to bring fresh to the team for this, for this period?

Yeah, I think it's like, you know, Jeb Boyd, who's kind of the team's manager, the head coach, he always says, like, you know, when they're— when your name is called, like, you're essentially the same person like the next day, but the role is very different. And that's something that I, you know, be interesting to hear Troy's experience too, but it's like, I feel like I'm the same person, but some of the things that I want to bring are some of the things like I've already been, been doing, you know, there's, there's a huge amount of like volunteerism in the PSIA organization, you know, where it's like, you know, you just, all you gotta do is just kind of raise your hand and people will, and do, you know, and put in the effort and people will use you for things like helping out with the children's manual. There's a new children's manual coming out and I worked with another guy and there's been multiple authors on that, but to really see like a project come to fruition, like that's something I still wanna be able to do. I also think like the thing that I'm really looking forward to, I mean, part of me was like, awesome. Like, great. Like I made it finally. Yes. Great. I never gave up, but the same token, I'm like, man, it took me like, it took me like 4 goes at this thing. And that's like, if you do the math, it's like 17 years. And I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, but then I thought about it and I was like, yeah, but that could mean like the world to someone who's a level 2 kind of working towards that level 3. And they've, they just haven't put all the pieces together yet. So I've really like kind of done this flip of I'm just embracing that story of like, if you do hard work and, and you— and it's really something that you want to do, like, you, you can do it. You may need some help, you know, and I use, you know, you guys for sure, like, to help me clarify some stuff. And I'm still going to be thinking through that thought process and trying to work through, you know, that kind of stuff. So I think I'm always going to have a kind of that curiosity piece of like, well, did I, you know, and challenging myself, like, can I say that better? Can I, um, you know, do different things this summer? I had an opportunity to do a lot of like, like level 1 certification through mountain biking, uh, which is new to me, but I looked at it as an opportunity to just get better at clinic leading, like period. Like it doesn't matter what the equipment is. Can I just get better at leading those, those groups? You know, and just see if that's, that's a challenge, you know, for myself. And, uh, it's been something that's been super fun.

Being self-critic, how'd it go? What do you, what do you think? Like, do you think you—

Well, for the mountain—

gonna come in, come in ski season as a better clinic leader from, from—

Yeah. Yeah.

No, I got, I got a lot better at leading clinics and understanding like, you know, physics of mountain biking too, which is definitely not one of my strengths in there. So I got better at that. Um, just from, you know, trying to explain it. different ways, and it's a whole nother organization. So learning through like, what do they value and how do they value different things? Um, it's been, it's been awesome, but I'm actually really excited to get back on, on snow in 2 weeks, Troy. I'm going to see you in person. I'm so excited to see you.

Oh, we're going to head off and socially distance though.

Socially distance. That's right. Yeah. I'll be on one side of the chairlift. You'll be on the other side of the chairlift.

Yeah.

Great.

Uh, we're going to Summit County. So in Colorado, Um, so yeah, A Basin is where we'll be based. Uh, snow— it's been cold at night, so they've been making some snow, but no, none of the places are open just yet, but they will be opening pretty soon here. They're probably shooting for like October 15th or 16th. So, so try travel safe.

Yeah, you— I know you got it, you got it.

I gotta run, but you guys keep talking. But thank you so much for, for having me, and thanks for everything that you guys have done and Big Picture Skiing has done for me.

Thanks, thanks, Kevin.

Thanks, Kevin.

Thank you.

I'd see you guys.

Thanks a lot. Yeah, um, I was just thinking, Tom and Troy, like, what I really think is cool here is like, so Troy touched before on, on saying like, you know, he appreciated the fresh perspective we had because we didn't have anything to do with PSI. And, and then I, I guess like, Tom, you know, you come from a high level in, in APSI You know, I don't come from like the same— you come from an APSI, like I have my level 3, but I come from the ski racing background and have also spent like many years like trying to perfect or find out how to perfect skiing as well. And then we also had guys during last season going for CSIA. We have Jonas right now is going for a Swedish level this coming season. We've had Guys in, in Basie, uh, like Luca Italian who's doing Basie, you know. Um, like we've had, uh, so many like cool people from all over the world. And I just— what I, what I like is like how when it comes down to it, um, at the highest level, like the— all these organizations, they, they say different things and they have different ideas about how to achieve like elite skiing. But I think it's so cool that it just kind of proves that, like, at the end of the day, people, like, they know what good skiing is and they just damn appreciate it, you know. Like, it's like any of the top demo team members, almost any other association would be happy to have on the demo team, you know, like, bar a few things. I think it's just really cool that, like, if you just follow the philosophy of, like, make your skiing good enough where no one can argue with it, then it's gonna work, you know.

A lot to be said about that. I think, I mean, Tom could probably talk about this to more detail, but from what I've gathered, it's like at the end of the inner skis, there's always that last round where everyone does short turns. And I think that is, you know, every one of them is a great skier, and you— and I'm really looking forward to just seeing that. I, I'd love to see it like not just en masse where all the teams are together, but maybe just 2 people in each team to get a small group and do short turns and try to mix and match and mingle within it, within each other. And that would be— I think that's just, you know, great skiing is great, is going to be great skiing. What the snow does, ski does in the snow.

And yeah, like when, when Interski comes along, are you Are you most excited to see a particular country? Are you, are you most excited?

As an accuracy guy, I've always kind of leaned towards like those, the Austrian teams and, you know, Austrian team, Swiss team, you know, they always— Swiss team has a little bit more flair, but the Austrian team, man, you know, and I always watch those guys, they're just tight, you know, it's like amazing. That's, you know, it screams to me, you know, that I just, I focus in on that and I But like I said, I think it's going to be all great skiing there for sure.

Yep.

Yeah, cool.

Awesome.

Troy, is there any like, uh, final things? Like, what, what do you— well, you didn't get to answer, like, what are you— what are your goals this season through being, uh, you know, the— a demo team representative for the PSIA?

You know, I really, you know back east, we don't, you know, we've got, we don't have a lot of exposure to a lot of, uh, demo team a lot of the time. Um, they tend to, you know, the vast majority is, is in the western, western part of the states. I'm really looking forward to just going to a lot of smaller hills and, and just trying to expose the, the, the me Well, you know, in 15 years, whatever, and I had some kid from wherever, it's like, yeah, I saw this guy come down here and it made a big impact on me. Because I can remember when I was going to events and I started seeing national team members, I'm like, there's something they do different and I want to do that. So I want to be, I want to be that, that impetus for that person, for sure.

Yeah, I, I, I love, I love that. Because on my bucket list is, is the East Coast of, like, ski the East, just because I think there is, uh, there's a lot of passion, you know. Not to say there's not in the West, there's just as much, but I think it's, it's sort of like just not as well known. And there's so many people that, that, that live for skiing out there. And, um, yes, I'm hearing on you on that. I can't wait to go out there and and ski and talk with people like that, because I think, yeah, probably gives you enough energy to, to get to the moon with.

Wow, it's pretty exciting, you know, when you can have 10 people be excited to go ski with you in the rain. That's— you're all right, you know. Yeah, they're not here just for me, I can tell you that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a very good point.

I think, I think, uh, as Australians, we can truly appreciate what you just said, Troy.

Absolutely, absolutely. My time in Australia is You spend some time standing in the rain, you know.

Yeah, right.

No other part of the world would anyone want to go and stand outside in the rain, talk about skiing, but you guys are here, so let's do it.

Yeah, and it's not that bad really, right? You get the right waterproof gear, you're still sliding and skiing, and often no one else is around, so you get the, the mountain to yourself.

So yeah.

Yeah, that's for sure. But yeah, that— I really am, I'm really looking forward to just being, just, you know, getting a little bit more exposure to more areas and of, of coming straight from national. So I think that's— yeah, that would be great.

I think that's really good because, because like you said, you know, it's just giving, uh, like opportunity for people that maybe don't get exposure to, to a knowledge base or an experience base of, of that caliber. So that's, that's really good to, really good to hear. And, um, yeah, good on you. Is there anything else you wanted to, to share before, before we wrap it up?

Well, I tell a lot of people, you know, you know, video-wise, you're producing some great education, and I've been really steering a lot, a lot of folks that I ski with and saying, you may want to check these things out to start building your understanding deeper and wider than what we're just showing here in our—

in our—

on our small part of the world. And I think that's really important. And keep up that— keep up the content, you know, keep that stuff going because it helps out so much. So kudos.

Cool, thanks. Yeah, well, maybe we can get together mid-season and have a bit of review and find out what you might be able to even, you know, collaborate on help where you're seeing there's some, you know, could be some extra info or whatever around a certain topic.

Yeah, excellent.

I'm, I'm really excited to see, Troy, what you and, and Kevin make of your skiing this season. You know, I mean, pressure's over, right? Like, now, in a way, like, all this, in a way, yeah, in front of like The rest of the best in skis now in the world.

Yeah, well, they tell you, you know, the day that, you know, the day after the tryout, we had it off, then we did a bunch of photo shoots and they're handing out uniforms and you're kind of like looking at you like, I'm not supposed to wear that. I'm not supposed to put that jacket on. That says national team on and big old patch on the left shoulder and everyone's like, ah, this thing's heavy, man. This is like weighing you down now. It's like there's a lot of weight there. There's a lot of weight of eyes and a lot of, a lot of expectation for sure.

Yeah, yeah. And I think that's good, you know, like, yes, keep referencing Sam, you know, like when you have that responsibility or that, you know, you're representing your country, I think that brings even more out of you. The pressure, I mean, you, well, you either rise to it or you kind of get crushed by it, but I think it's like, that's It's gonna— oh yeah, like Sam said, I'm excited to see what you guys do with your skiing and, and, and but also do it— do with your like teaching and your coaching, because that's what you're there to do, is to bring other people along the journey as becoming great skiers. So good, good luck with it, Troy. Thanks so much for your, uh, time to, to chat with us.

I appreciate it, guys. I always enjoy talking with you guys. Awesome.

Thanks a lot, Troy.

All right, take care, gang.

Thanks.