It Is Time to Let Your Dream Die | Catherine Crestani | The IgnitedNeurons Podcast

Told me how perfect my life was from the outside. And on the inside, I was depressed and crying in the shower every morning and truly numb.

2 successful companies and a home she custom designed and said that she'll never leave it. A life that from the outside looked absolutely perfect.

You have to mourn the dream that will never be.

You don't have to mourn the failure. You have to mourn the dream. The dream that you've been carrying for so long, it stopped being yours, but you still carry it because you don't want to betray that dream.

My friends, but they were really scared of the reflection of what me choosing myself meant in their life.

She left the marriage, she left the business partnership while she was pregnant. Catherine built a 6-figure company and then she left it all. And now she guides people back to their authority with just one rule.

If it's not 100% yes, it's a no. Full stop.

And her body does the deciding. It's goosebumps when it's a yes. And when it's a no—

And when it was 100% definitely no, I actually want to throw up.

By the end of our conversation today, you'll know the dream that you're still carrying is not yours anymore. And how do you let go? Let's dive in. Let's dive straight into the conversation, Catherine. And the first question that I'm kind of opening up today with is that What do you think is the biggest fantasy that we as human beings keep believing in, but it causes us great suffering?

Ah, what a good hard question to start with, Utkarsh.

I just thought we'll we'll dive into the deep end of the pool.

You know, I feel the biggest thing is that when we have changed, like in ourselves, because as humans we're always changing and evolving and shifting. You know, as we learn more, as we grow more. And then we still think we have to live the old version of our dreams, or we have to live that old version of the relationship, or we have to— it's like we have grown and expanded, but we forgot to let go of what we expected when we were in our old selves. So all of a sudden, we're still working towards this dream or this relationship or this idea of what our life should be, and it doesn't fit us anymore, and we think we're betraying ourselves by letting that go. And I feel often that that's the biggest thing that a lot of, like, I struggled with and a lot of my clients struggle with. It's you have to mourn the dream that will never be. Yeah.

Oh, that's such a powerful answer. And there are these words that I'm going to pick on there. It seems like we get so attached to that past self that we don't create space for the future self. And you use something called You called it, it's almost like we're betraying ourselves. Tell me more.

Yeah, so for example, the example I love to use is when you marry somebody on your wedding day, you don't sit there and imagine in 5 years that you'll get divorced, right? So you don't go, I do, and then in 5 years' time, you're already visualizing when you're saying these vows that your relationship will fall apart. So then there's part of us that wants to make that relationship work, even though we've tried everything and nothing works. And then we, we say no to that. And instead of realizing that we're honoring ourselves, it's almost like we have this little bit of a guilt because, you know, oh, but we said those vows that we're meant to be together forever. Or we said, made these promises and we had these dreams of what our life would look like together. But the thing is, especially in relationships, people either grow together or grow apart. And sometimes we beat ourselves up for that. It's like with a business as well. And I know from building my businesses, when you set out, you just think, yep, we're gonna, you know, set all these KPIs and we're gonna have all these, you know, monetary goals and we're gonna do all these things. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I don't want any of this, you know, like, but then you keep pushing yourself to stay for whatever reason. It might be that for me, I was the main breadwinner. So I kept having feeling I had to keep that company going because I couldn't see see at the time that there was another way to bring an income in. Or it might be that you're like, but I've done all this work and invested all this time. If I walk away now, I feel like I'm— For anyone who's listening to this who started a company, when you build it from the ground up, it's like a baby. It's like a child that you've been raising. And to walk away before they're even at teenage stage, you're like, oh gosh, I can't do that. So there's all these elements of us that we feel like it's a failure Or things ending, or when, when we try something and it doesn't work, and then we have this guilt around that rather than going, okay, well, how do I learn from that? And yeah, I gave it a really good go, but that's not who I am anymore. And allowing yourself to evolve and step away from that. I know I'm not the same person I was 6 months ago, 12 months ago, definitely not 20 years ago, you know. So it's, you know, How does how do we intervene? Like I say, you have to mourn the dream. That's what I say. You know, if you have this idea of what your life will look like and it doesn't end up that way, there's almost this deep-seated level of disappointment, and you have to let that go and mourn that because it does feel like you're betraying your dreams because you suddenly changed everything. And even most recently for me, where I'm living at the moment. we built this house, we said this is the house we're going to stay with forever. So we built it with that in mind, you know, we're not going to sell it or anything. And then about a year and a half ago, I came home and said to my husband, I don't want to live here anymore, I want to live near the beach. And, you know, and he, he looked at me and he's like, you know what, I don't want this lifestyle anymore either. I agree, I want to be near the beach. And he went and started looking at RVs so we could travel and this sort of thing. I'm very blessed because I had a supportive partner. But at the same time, you know, a lot of people were telling us that we were crazy. Like, a house is so beautiful and amazing. And, you know, even now our house still hasn't sold because it's unique and custom built. But I know someone's going to come and buy it because I trust that. But I also had to let that dream go of us staying here forever and actually mourn that and grieve that and let that, let that go as well.

Yeah, yeah, that's just so beautiful. And I'm going to pick on this word, and I think there's a lot that's happening personally for me. I'm reading Man's Search for Meaning for the 5th time, and so this idea of suffering, the why and the how, that's what was kind of top of mind before we started this conversation. And I'm going to come back to this word forever because I have a love-hate relationship with this word, and so we'll speak more about that. But I just want to go back to that 8-year-old Katherine, the 8-year-old little girl wherever you were growing up. If Katherine, that 8-year-old comes and meets you right now, what kind of a dialogue, what conversation do you think that 8-year-old and the current self will have?

I feel the 8-year-old me, yeah, she was so lost because she never fit in anywhere, you know, like I would put on so many masks. And I was very good at reading people and learning how to be around them, even though it wasn't who I truly was. So for her to have that conversation with me now and see that, first of all, there's nothing I would change about that, you know, that, that is how it was meant to happen.

Mm-hmm.

Um, because being in that actually taught me how to read people really well, and the blessing Of never feeling like I could have close friends and things like that was that I had to rediscover who I was. So that dialogue with the little 8-year-old me is like, there's nothing wrong, just keep seeing what fits and feel what's right. Because in the end, when we allow ourselves to truly be, you know, there's nothing— your past is just your past. It doesn't define who you are right now unless you let it.

Yeah.

Hmm.

Allow ourselves to truly be. If someone's listening to both of us, they're 34 years old, they're building the career and they feel they want to do something else, but there are constraints in life and they're not being able to be who they truly want to be. Where does that person begin, Katheryn?

Really, I guess the first thing, Utkarsh, would be I would say that they need to find first of all, is there joy in their life? Because it's all good that we have these obligations, that we have these bills we need to pay, and if there's no joy, actually start looking at your life and go, is this what I want? Because so often, especially when we get to the mid— our mid-thirties, and I know I'm nearly 40, you know, so I can talk about this, but when we get to our mid-thirties Our priorities start to shift because there's a reason why they say people go through midlife crises, or like I call them awakenings. But you know, we we get to that point and we look at our life and like, can I do this every day for the rest of my life or until I retire at seventy, seventy-five? Right? And a lot of the time we face this this fork in the road and we can make the decision that. It's just easier to keep doing the mundane that doesn't excite me, or we can be brave and be courageous and choose something that's gonna light me up. And I feel there's that saying, and I can't think of what it is and it's exactly, or who said it, but it's like, find your passion and you'll never work a day in your life.

Mm-hmm.

You know, so it's really, it comes down to, all right, what does bring me joy? You know, what makes me feel at peace and how do I want my life to look like? If you just want to live on a shack on the beach and that is your happy dream of what your life would look like, why not? You know, what do you need to get there? You don't need a job that's bringing in, you know, 6 figures or anything like that to do that. You know, you might just need, you know, a little bit of seed money to buy a little bit of plot of land, or it might even be your rent. It doesn't matter. and something coming in each week, and you can have all this free time and this ability to do what you need to, you know. And, you know, so if you're in your 30s and you're going, ah, there's something bigger— and I know because I went through this— it's like, oh, I don't think this is what I'm meant to be doing. There's still something more. And there's this pull, and you're constantly— and for me, I know personally, Utkarsh, I would keep going, all right, what else can I learn? What's the next expansion? You know, what's the next thing? Not realizing that I wasn't even in the career I wanted to stay in long term. I just kept trying to find something else to learn on top of that, that hopefully filled that void without realizing actually, no. I like to say I like to throw bombs into my life and just blow it all up because it is kind of like that, right? Because it can feel that way. But if you're worried about money and you're worried about that sort of thing, there's always a way. If you're open to look for it, you know, if you're like, but I still need this income coming in because I have a family to support, or I have these obligations and these bills. Okay, great. Well, what, what's bringing you joy? And what are you curious about? And how can you create time for that each day? And then see where that goes. I have met some of my beautiful clients. And they have, they're really talented at some form of craft, whether it's jewelry making, or they can produce music or they create sleep masks, whatever it is. But I was like, okay, well, you can still do that and still have your 9 to 5 till you're ready to switch over or till you're ready to step out of that or make time and do things around those obligations. I know for me at the moment, my priority is, is my mum roles. So I will get up at like 2 AM and do recordings and things I don't do that. I do that once a month. But, you know, I will do recordings and things before my child wakes up because then I can still prioritize that. So it's really, what is, what is that joy and curiosity? And don't let it diminish because otherwise you're just taking one step closer to the grave each day rather than living and being excited.

Yeah, I absolutely— every mirror neuron in my mind is going off right now. And, uh, and it's saying, you know, you said about that saying that once you find something you love, then it's— you don't work even a single day. I think what's coming to me right now is that the graveyard is full of dreams just because people don't act on what they want and desire and want to achieve through their lives. I think it's also the society, Catherine, that the society has almost conditioned us and compelled us to never seek joy. Because how do you really quantify joy, right? How do you really quantify peace? And you can be curious, but then the society, and because of which we start to ask ourselves, how much money am I making? How much is my house worth right now? How large is my car? Or whatever, right? And because those are things that they can measure. And I think that's where this question that you asked, just ask yourself, what would bring you joy? And I think if people are lying to themselves, whoever they might be right now, or if they're honest with themselves, then it's time to make that small little shift and change things around.

Yeah, 100%, Utkarsh. And you know, this is where it comes from, our definition of success as well, because we've been taught and conditioned that success is a material outcome. You know, um, okay, you need the big house with 2 cars, 2.3 children, um, you know, mortgage that you'll pay off till you die, whatever, you know.

Yeah.

Um, you need to have all these sorts of things, but in the end, do you really have to have all those things? We sold one of our cars because we needed extra income, and we're like, do we really need 2 cars? We're like, no, we don't. You know, we, we had plans to have 2 children. We had one, and my husband and I were like, nah, we're one and done, thank you very much. You know, this is Like our dreams were changing. And even we're like, we don't want to have a huge mortgage. We don't want that financial pressure. Let's take the steps to change our lives to shift that and, you know, and see what that looks like. So redefining success is important too. So for me, success is that feeling of peace. So can I actually have those moments in the day where I just feel At ease, and I just feel— and I have them multiple times a day. I will tell you right now, when I was running my very successful businesses, that I didn't have that peace. I was constantly looking for the next, the next goal, the next thing we had to achieve. And whereas now I'm in this stepping out of that hustle culture mindset of have to push, push, push, push, push, and actually I just allow things to flow through. And just go, okay, here's a beautiful opportunity. I need to do that. If I don't feel like writing on a certain day, I don't write. But then I'll have other days and I sit there and I'm so inspired, I'll create 3 or 4 articles, or like my Substack, or write a chunk of my book. And I don't feel guilty that I'm not doing that all the time, because when I push that creativity, then it doesn't happen. And then, then I, then I lose that mojo, and then I hate something that I love. So it's also how you frame things too. And exactly, how do you define joy? Happiness is fleeting, but joy is this lasting kind of feeling where you just go, ah, you know. And I always have those moments. I actually have them very often at the moment, I think because of what's happening in the universe. But Where you just get those tears of just pure alignment and joy. It's like, oh my goodness, I am just incredibly grateful right now for my life. And it can be over— for me, it can be over something so simple of me just watching a bee taking some wattle, you know, off the flower and just buzzing around. But the wattle's so beautiful and the day is so beautiful. And it's like, wow, like how beautiful it is. this life. And I never had those moments before because I was too busy rushing that I didn't get to stop and appreciate those small things.

I was sitting on the lunch table a few weeks ago with friends, Catherine, and we were having exactly something like this of a conversation. And I said to them that even when I eat a banana, I'm full of gratitude for the universe to be able to put that sweetness in a fruit and can get that to me, right? And I'm hearing and seeing your smile and expression because you're resonating with it. And then one of our friends said, but Utkarsh, what about those who don't understand this? Because for them there is— they are far away from bliss, they are far away from— they're so engrossed in the granular that they have been unable to zoom out and see how We're like a speck of dust on a speck of dust on a speck of dust on a speck of dust. All of that does not matter. So how do we shift someone today, Catherine? You and I.

A lot of the time, the questions that I ask usually my clients is, what do you actually want and desire in this life? And most people cannot answer that. Most people cannot tell you what their dreams are apart from, oh, you know, I just want to go on that holiday. holiday, or, um, a lot of people are so disconnected from themselves that the first place to start is actually spending time alone with themselves. And this is where, um, people talk about this epidemic of loneliness. There's nothing wrong with being lonely. The loneliness comes from avoiding being vulnerable with yourself, avoiding wanting to have those conversations. With your mind and learning not to listen to all those thoughts that pop up and rather listen to what's coming through from your heart and your inner voice, which is actually quite informative and very clever, you know. So when, when you allow that space and we don't run away from it, and we are, we are the most distracted generation ever, right? You know, like, oh. Oh, I got a text message. I need to answer it now. Or I got an email. I need to look at it now instead of just sitting there. And I am. I put my hand up. I am so guilty of this because coming from I used to multitask everything, so I would be doing ten things at once all the time, which I know you know there's all these studies saying you're better off focusing. But when you're running a business and seeing clients and being a mom and and doing all these different roles. Sometimes you do need to multitask, and I will tell you now, right now, Akash, you talk to any mum and we do not get through the day without multitasking because there is just so much you need to do sometimes. Okay, the kettle's boiling while I'm waiting for my tea. I'm going to quickly feed my child and then I can come back and actually have my cup of tea hot. You know, so it's about finding that balance that works for you. And you know, if you, if you don't know what you want to choose in life, what you want in life, and, and you're just walking through the mundane every single day. Like, do you want to wake— I say to my clients, the only person you have to look at the mirror every day is yourself. So what do you want to see staring back at you?

Yeah, I think just connecting the dots from that hustle culture to this ever-distracted environment that we live in, I think we're running so fast, Catherine, that we are not even pausing to look at who are we running with, and let alone to think about who are we while we are running. And I think that gap is becoming larger and larger. And so in a very, very hyperconnected world where you spoke about message and email, I think there is the Substack, the LinkedIn, the Instagram, the TikTok, the Snapchat, the Like there are like 17 apps on the phone that are fighting for our attention. And there are engineers who are being paid like what, millions, billions of dollars to snatch our attention from us. And we're getting lonelier and lonelier because of it. I think the subtle shift that I've learned over time, Catherine, love your views on it, is there's a big difference between loneliness and solitude. How have you seen that play out?

Well, solitude, I feel, is more a choice, right? Whereas loneliness is the feeling. And if you, if you sit with loneliness, what is it afraid— what are you afraid of when you sit with that loneliness? And often when we can't create a connection with somebody else, it's because we're not able to connect with ourselves to start with. And a lot of the time, And in the spiritual world, they'll talk about this all the time, but what's happening internally in you is reflected externally around you, right? So, and it's even when we talk about like our brain, um, it's like when, right, so you're looking, you're looking at, I'm gonna use a very Aussie example here. You're looking at buying a ute, right? If anyone's like from overseas listening to this, utes are very popular in Australia.

Yeah. Um, right?

So it's like a truck, but the bed's cut out at the back and you can— it's really great. We used to have one. They're amazing for moving things.

Mm-hmm.

Anyway, and so you're looking at this particular brand of ute and you've never seen one until you go look at it at the dealership. Then as soon as you walk out of the dealership, your reticular activating system is switched on and you just see them everywhere because it's suddenly in your field and on your radar. So when we're in that state of loneliness and we're like, oh, you know, I just can't connect with anybody, you know, like no one understands who I am. Those questions that are already coming up in your head are a reflection of what you're avoiding in yourself, which is then pulling that into your field. So all you're doing is looking for examples of that around you to build on that belief that you have in that moment. And this is where this perpetual loneliness comes from. And I've noticed a lot with especially my younger clients, actually, you know, it's not even my younger clients. I have some older clients too. And they're like, oh, this person didn't like my post on social media. What do you think that means? I was like, that they were busy, you know, like, you know, and, and I have to remember—

How could they be busy, Kathy? How could they be busy? They have to be sitting and waiting for my posts.

How could they?

How dare they?

How dare they? But it's really interesting, my husband and I talk about this all the time, because when we were younger we had home phones connected to the wall with the big curly cord, right? So if, if you went out and someone rang when you were out and you didn't answer the phone, they just accepted you weren't home and they'd call back later. Whereas now if we're out and we don't answer our phone, We all of a sudden feel like we have to rush to call that person back, and we have to apologize for not being available 24/7. When did it become okay for us to be contactable 24/7? Even I have clients, and I've got this one at the moment. She's going through a big thing, and she was calling me, and I'm like, "You know what? It's seven o'clock at night. I don't want to answer that." I like yes. I know you've got all this stuff going on and everything in your life, but at the same time, I need to put these boundaries in for myself, and I'm not going to be available 24/7, especially when I'm ready to put my little human to bed. You know, I'm like, I'm not going to sit on this phone call. This is my priorities and what my values are. So we, we can choose how we allow that to show up in our life, and we can— we have the power to turn our phone off. And I have to laugh because when I got my newer iPhone, I had to Google how to turn it off because I didn't know you have to press 2 buttons. I was like, why is this so hard to turn off my phone? They made it harder on purpose, right? So I, I don't deny yourself airplane mode. It is one of the best things that you can possibly do on your phone. phone and just choose a time to check out. And I can guarantee you, if it's urgent, the universe will find a way to get that message to you. If it's someone's dying, and I'm not being morbid here, but if someone's dying, it's like, well, unless you're a doctor yourself, what can you possibly do to assist that?

Yeah.

You know, so it's really just allowing that, okay, it will happen how it's meant to happen, you know, and it's, um, Not feeling you need to be there all the time, because then that creates your own version of loneliness. Because then when people don't contact you, you're all of a sudden going, do they not like me anymore? You know, like, it's like, no, people have lives, they're busy. It's okay, it's okay.

So fascinating. And, and people don't even understand that it's the algorithm that is going to decide whether your post shows up to someone else or not. And, and I think In this urge to response, in this 24/7 culture, I think we've given away that power to turn off the phone as well because it starts to make us feel like— and these are new words that at least did not exist in my language— FOMO, fear of missing out. And I think what it needs to shift into is that sometimes just find the joy of missing out. And I absolutely, like, I'm guilty. It's really hard to let go of the phone. But it's something that I think one absolutely needs to practice. But I'm going to take us back to something that you said. It's almost like you— and which is what I think we spoke about in our intro conversation as well— we have to learn to say no to others. And I think once we do that, that creates a space to say yes to ourselves.

What is your relationship with that? 100%. Well, my whole life was learning to choose myself. Like learning to, that it's okay to put myself first and not feel guilty about that. And mum guilt is such a big thing that I had to unpack as well. Um, but even, you know, when I left my first marriage, I had to choose myself in that moment. And everyone told me how perfect my life was from the outside. And on the inside, I was depressed and crying in the shower every morning and truly numb. I was actually numb to life. And when I stepped out of that relationship and said yes to myself, I had a lot of friends fall away. Not because they were friends with my ex; they were my my friends. But they were really scared of the reflection of what me choosing myself. Meant in their life. And I only realized that, you know, studying more human behavior and stepping back from that and going, oh, I was a perfect mirror for them, and they didn't like the flaws they were seeing in their own relationship or how that was looking. Um, but then even in my business partnership, you know, my business partnership wasn't working anymore, and I was pregnant at the time, and with my, with my new husband now, and I was like, no, I don't want to keep putting up with this. Like, I have to think about me and being a mom, and I don't want to have to deal with this anymore. So I had to choose myself, you know? And the more I did that, the stronger I got at learning to say no to other people. And then I worked with this coach, and it was really so simple what he said. If it's not 100% yes, it's a no, full stop.

Mm-hmm.

I was like, oh, oh, that's okay.

Yeah.

So, and the more I tapped in, cuz I'm very intuitive, so the more I tapped into my intuition, the more that that became a visceral response in me. So when it was a hell yes, like, yeah, there's no doubt about it, I get full goosebumps on my body. And when it was 100% definitely no, I actually wanna throw up. I actually gag. And it's, um, when I think about it, I just go, eh. Um, sorry. And you can train yourself to be that aware, but you have to start by getting to know your own boundaries and what works for you or not. Something that I noticed I used to do a lot, Utkarsh, was I— someone would invite me to something and I couldn't go for— and sometimes it's a very legitimate reason. It might be I've got something else on, but instead of just saying, thank you for the invite, I won't be able to make it. I would send these massive essays of like all the reasons why I'm so sorry I can't come. You know, the people pleaser would come in and, you know, like all these sorts of things. I had just taken all the power away from my no. All of a sudden it doesn't, you know, no's a sentence, right?

Yeah.

So when I started to realize doing that, I would read that and I'm like, why am I writing all of that? And I would delete the whole message and just write again. Thank you, but I can't make it. Or, thank you, but it's a no. And sometimes the hardest people to say no to is your family. They are the most difficult ones to say— and partners. Partners and family. They're the hardest ones to say no to. But the stronger you get, and I call it your courageous no, but the stronger you get with your nos and the clearer you get with your yeses, the more things come forward. So my favorite example, actually I have two examples of my clients, but one was she was volunteering for this organization and she's like, oh, it's just draining all my energy. I said, so you don't enjoy it anymore? She's like, no. I said, then why are you doing it? She's like, I don't actually know. I said, all right, well, just resign. I'm giving you permission. It's okay to resign. So she was, she, before we even finished our consult or our session, She'd already written the resignation letter and she handed it in. Within a week from shifting that energy and saying no to that, her dream business opportunity landed in her lap. And she messaged me and she goes, I shifted that energy and I allowed it something new to come in. The other one I had was I had this client and she was sick all the time and she was really like questioning where she was living. And I said, Well, why? Like I said, don't you love the water? She goes, I love being at the beach. I find it so healing and restorative. And I said, but you're living in the middle of the desert. Like she was literally living in the middle of the desert. And she said, yeah. I said, well, why don't you move? And she said, oh, I could do that. So she started researching. She decided to move to Panama of all places. I love it. And she, and it was so aligned and so quick. Utkarsh, she bought a ticket, she gave herself 3 months, and within that 3 months she managed to find someone to take over the lease of her apartment, all her furniture sold, everything aligned perfectly because she said yes to that. And then as soon as she moved there, not only did she get this beautiful beach view every single day, but she also found this medical treatment For very cheap because it's Panama, but for like very and it was like not even addressed in the U.S. where she came from, and suddenly she's her health is better. So her health is better. She's got more money coming in. She's living where she wants to live. She's enjoying every day, and the only thing that was left was the community. And I said, "I promise the tribe is coming." And then someone moved in next door to her that was an expat from the U.S. US as well. So it was just like this beautiful things will align, but first of all, you have to figure out where your energy is being sucked out and how to say no to that and allow new things to come in.

Yeah, yeah, it's like, like energy, energy takes space, right? Whether it's physical space, mental space, emotional space. And unless you let go of that energy and you make way for some new energy, that's not not going to shift. And that's the same idea of when you say no to something, the universe is going to say yes to something else. Again, one of those ideas that once you, once you understand that, Catherine, I feel like it's, it's a feeling of bliss that there's such deep trust in the universe that it's got your back and it'll figure shit out for you.

Exactly. And I love that you brought up energy because energy cannot be created or destroyed. destroyed. This is a fact, right? So if your energy's all going to something you don't want it to go to, how is new energy going to come into your life? We are energetic beings. You can look up biofield, auras, all these things, right? You can put your hands together, you can feel your energy. But the point is that if— till you realize that your energy getting sucked into something or put into something that you don't want it to go to, it's not going to allow something new to come in. Um, and I so agree too that, that alignment and knowing that easy yes and no. And I feel a lot of people get stuck in, what if it's the wrong decision? But the thing is, there are no wrong decisions.

Yeah.

You just make a decision and all it does is it closes off that other pathway. And then if that decision doesn't work out, you just make another decision to counteract that. And The maybe, getting stuck in that maybe and sitting there in that maybe, ugh, it's so draining. That is an energy drain, right?

Yeah.

If you think about it, anyone listening, think about those times that you've had to make a decision about taking a job or leaving a job or selling your house. And you just sit there and you think about it and you think about it and you think about it. And it just takes up all your mental space. It takes up all your energy where you could have just gone, Oh, my gut is saying yes or no. I'm just gonna go for it and see what happens. Exactly. Um, so it's through those decisions that you can just make the new ones. Now, if you're someone that gets stuck on that and going, oh, I don't want to just close that off just yet, make a condition with that. So what my old coach taught me was instead of saying yes straight away, say, look, it's a yes, but here are my conditions to that yes. You know, because it might look like a perfect opportunity, but you're like, hang on a minute, I want to make sure this is addressed too. Or it might be you genuinely have to go check if you can make space for that in your schedule. So then you make a promise to yourself and to them, which helps this trust currency, right? Which is like, okay, look, I just want to check a few things. Can I get back to you within 24 hours? And get back to them before the 24 hours. And make it a priority, and then that's done as well. You know, and I had this with me where this person came forward with an opportunity for my podcast, and he's telling me all these things, and oh gosh, it was everything I wanted, but I wasn't excited about it. I was like, why am I not excited? Like, why is why doesn't this feel right? And then as I sat there with it, I was like, is it the financial investment? I was like no. No, it's not that at all. The truth was I wanted to have a break from recording, and if I said yes to that opportunity, I couldn't have the break. And that is why I wasn't having that full, like, yes. But I said to him, can I just sit with it for a minute? There's something I'm not sure of. I will get back to you within 24 hours. And I did, and I honored that, you know. So To other people it might look like a dream opportunity, but then really, if it doesn't feel right for you, you say no and something better will come along, which it did. Yeah.

I think it's, it's all about the awareness of the energy, right? Because, uh, I, I had a big client meeting on Tuesday, and Monday evening I was sensing that I'm like a little bit edgy, and I did not connect the dots till then. And I'm Monday evening, I'm talking to my wife, I feel a little bit edgy right now. There's, there's something in my body that's not feeling right. And while talking to her, I realized that there's this big meeting on Tuesday that's making— and as soon as I called it out, that that meeting is making me feel this way, there's like a sense of ease that came upon me. And I think that's what— if, if listeners can take away something from what you and I are talking about today, Katherine, is that you have the agency. You have the agency to choose. You have agency to, to be aware, to identify what's serving you, what's not serving you. And we're not asking you to take a leap tomorrow. We're not asking you to quit your jobs, stop your business, or start a podcast or whatever. But take the steps so that that future self can say, damn, you did well.

Exactly, exactly. And I feel too that you bring up a good point, is like, just take little steps. It doesn't have to be monumental, you know. Like, we My favorite thing is, you know, we are— we overestimate what we can do in a day, and we underestimate what we can do in a year. You know, that to-do list will always be there. I will tell you right now, it will always be there. But at the same time, I sit there and go, okay, what are my priorities for today? And I'm very much one that will go, okay, what's my focus for the month? And then break that down into what are my priorities for the day? And what do I really need to get done? You know, what have I been putting off? And, you know, I'll get— try and get those first. Normally, it's social media. So I'll just be like, I'm just getting that done. I'm getting that done. But then some days I'll wake up and be like, oh, I know what to post today. But it's really Just allowing yourself to be in flow of that. And then if you don't know, like if you're truly lost, this is why there are other humans around you to connect with, right? So, and learn more about yourself. You know, I, because I do a lot of spiritual practices, I will tell my clients, go learn your astrology, go learn your numerology, go look at your human design, your gene whatever it is that, that you feel pulled to, not for the whole point of like, oh, you know, I'm a Cancer Sun, Cancer Moon, or anything like that. It's to understand why you make the decisions that you do or why you are how you are. I remember when I first looked at Human Design, I've had a much better report lately, but I remember doing the free one and the best thing I learned off it, if you are out of alignment, your sign is frustrating. So I knew whenever I felt frustrated that something wasn't going right in my life. I didn't feel aligned with myself. And then because I tend to feel what other people feel, I was feeling bitterness one day and I'm like, what is— I don't get bitter. Like, this is— it's not to say like I'm never bitter, but at the same time, like, this isn't a typical emotion for me. Now, my son and my husband, their type, their sign of they're not in alignment is bitterness. So as soon as I feel that bitterness now, I'm like, all right, which one of my boys do I need to, to, to check in with right now?

Yeah.

Um, but that, that's the point of these tools. And it's such a simple thing and it doesn't have to cost you a lot of money. It can just be, I'm curious and I wanna know, you know, I was talking to a client last night and we were talking about names and he said, oh, your name's Catherine with a C. If there's a Catherine with a K, does that make any difference? I said, well, actually, energetically, in numerology, it does because the K has a different value to the C. He's like, really? I said, yeah, go play with that, see what happens. He goes, I'm very curious now. I said, great, done my job. You go be curious about that. You know, so these are— there's these tools. And also, you know, this is why there's, um, unfortunately more people are turning to AI get that reflection, great. Use that as a starting point. But then go find a human to validate that as well. Because I can tell you right now, ChatGPT is only as good as the information you put in. And if you don't understand what's coming out, it's not going to help you on your journey.

Correct. Yeah. Curious with the C or the K? Just a bad joke. Just, just a dad joke. Put it out there. We spoke about forever. My relationship with forever, Catherine, is that I sometimes feel all we have is this moment, and then there's this desire to even plan for the future. And I feel, am I doing an ins— a disservice to the future self by living more and more in the moment? And I have my hypothesis, but how do you feel about that statement?

I feel we still need to have an idea of the future so it can act as a compass of where we want to head, right? So, um, but also not to limit your dreams, because when we get involved and our head gets involved, it puts caveats on like, there's no way you could do that, or that's too hard, or anything like that. Whereas if you just Allow put out like hey that would be amazing to do that. I'm gonna keep working towards that. Things just fall in alignment. Like I have this beautiful vision of co-creating a school where children are actually nurtured in their spiritual gifts and get to know who they are from day dot, right? Not put in a classroom. This is and the amount of people, Kash, that have been put in my field that have a similar dream for doing the same thing. I cannot tell you how often it happens, and I just laugh because I'm like, thank you for validating that I'm on the right track, you know, or thank you for that feedback. But the point is, if you don't live in the present moment, this is where overwhelm and anxiety come from. So if you're living— if you're constantly questioning what you're doing, if you're living in regret, you're too busy stuck in the past. You're actually not in the presence. And then if you're too busy worried about how things will happen, then you're in your overwhelm and your anxiety and you're stepping out the future. But when you're present and in that moment, that is where you have those clarity moments where you get that feedback. So nothing— no, I don't think anything's forever. Nothing's guaranteed. But I also truly believe that everything in life is designed For us. You know, I don't believe in accidents or coincidences. I believe everything's synchronicity. Because when you really think about it, what were the odds that you would bump into that person that you haven't seen for 10 years in the middle of a crowded room in Sydney? You know, or what were the odds that you walk into a cafe and you're standing next to this friend that you haven't seen for 20 years? You know, there was a reason for that going on. And it might be as simple as reminding you of part of you that you forgot about, or that, hey, that relationship's definitely not for me anymore. You know, or it might be all these things. But, you know, our soul does live forever. I believe that.

Right.

You know, in many, many different forms. Um, but at the same time, You know, your dreams don't have to be forever. If you allow them to shift and evolve with you, you'll never be able to— you'll never have to stop dreaming, you know. But it's when we feel that— we're circling back to where we started, right? When you feel like that you've— that you have to hold on to those dreams even when they don't fit you anymore, this is where you get stuck and leave the present moment and get stuck in the forever of what couldn't be.

Such a full circle conversation.

Yeah.

As we think of the future, the forever, the, the, the what's next, now we go in the future and ask your 80-year-old Catherine, the one from the future, the ones that, that, uh, has gained more wisdom over the years, and that 80-year-old comes to you right now in this moment, has one piece of advice for you. What would that 80-year-old be Hmm.

I always laugh when people bring up these things because I always see myself as like this old elder under a tree telling stories to children.

That's what you just imagined.

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Every single time. But I feel she would just say, don't give up. You know, just, you know, keep going. Keep taking that next step and the next step because there's magic happening behind the scenes that you can't even, that you can't even, you know, put together in your mind right now. Yeah. And it's, it's really interesting, Ukash, because this song appeared on my playlist on Spotify. This happens to me all the time. Songs I've never liked or heard of will just appear in my saved list. Or my audiobooks, right? But it was called Whispers from Your Future Self, and it's this beautiful song reminding you that, you know, you are exactly where you need to be and just keep going, you know, and just keep going. And sometimes that can be the most courageous thing you do is choose to get up and keep going even when it feels hard.

Thank you, Catherine, for such a beautiful conversation.

Thank you.

To everyone who's still listening to us about 45-47 minutes into the conversation, you're exactly where you need to be. Don't give up, just keep going on, because the magic is happening behind you. Don't stop dreaming, but don't hold on and attach to that dream. When the need arises, mourn that dream, let that dream go, and build a bigger Newer, better, whatever, whatever that dream looks like. There are no wrong decisions. There are only decisions. You make those decisions and you move forward. Remember, you'll always have the agency. Be aware and identify what's draining you, and learn to say no to others to be able to say yes to yourself. You have the power to start and turn your phone off every now and then, put it on airplane mode and just be with yourself. Solitude is a choice, loneliness a state. You get to choose who you want to be. Remember that your definition of success is unique and there's no one else who will have the same definition of success, and so there's no comparison on who's more successful than you or who's not. Happiness is fleeting, but joy is permanent. If you're in your 30s or 40s, just like we're in that same space, Catherine and I, you might be going through a midlife crisis. Remember, this is you going through an awakening, not a crisis. And whenever you feel lost or stuck, ask yourself, what will truly give me joy? And the right answer will emerge because the universe is conspiring to put the magic magic in you, in front of you, and around you. If you want to get in touch with Catherine, we'll put all the things in the show notes, all her links, everything will be there. Reach out. Catherine, any final words before we, before we hand off?

I love that beautiful summary. So I would call them the gold nugget moments from the show, right? But thank you, Utkarsh, for this conversation. And for everyone listening, If you're going through a tough point at this moment, just know it's just a moment in your story and the chapters are still being written and you always have that choice how it will end.

Yeah. Beautiful. It's just a moment. And if you think this podcast was useful for you because you've spent an hour on it, do not share it with others because others are not going to listen to it fully and that's not going to help us. Share with just one person who you think needs this the most, who will wait till the golden nuggets, who will wait till this last final thing that Katherine and I just shared, and share it with them. If you're on YouTube, leave something in the comments because we love to hear from you. We love to see who's listening, who's commenting, who's taking away whatever you are. This is Utkarsh.

And Katherine.

Signing off.