Why Iran's Youth Are Willing to Die for Freedom

What does freedom cost, and who is willing to pay the price?

Children our age, ten, twelve, thirteen, are being killed in Iran. And so we have that chance now to be their voice and to tell the world that the people of Iran want freedom and they want democracy.

I have two boys, fifteen and twelve.

I remember growing up, I always thought of Fatemeh Mesbah. She was a thirteen-year-old girl who was executed by the regime at the age of thirteen. I always thought like when I was Getting older, like how much does a 13-year-old know about politics to be executed based on that?

This isn't politics.

Western powers brought Khomeini in. It wasn't the people of Iran who chose Khomeini. Khomeini was brought in. There's a third option.

So what is the third option?

The choice is not between war or appeasement, and that's supporting the Iranian people in their resistance.

Our conversation today isn't a political conversation; it's a human one. We talk fear. courage, dignity, and the psychology of hope when all hope is lost. I had this conversation with Zola just a week before the strikes, and if you're ready for this, let's dive in. Zola, I'm looking forward to this conversation with you today.

First of all, let me greet our, um, those who are tuning into this podcast today. It's a pleasure to be with you, and I look forward to this conversation too, um, and hope to learn more from it.

Thank you. And the first question, Zolal, that we want to really go into the deep psychology of the guest who we have on the podcast is that if that 8-year-old Zolal, however, whatever those conditions were, wherever you are growing up, if that 8-year-old Zolal comes and meets you right now, what kind of conversation do you think will emerge between, between the two of you?

Well, I think one of the first things that I would tell that 8-year-old Zolal is I know right now, uh, it seems like a very difficult time. It had just been 6 months since you've lost your father and the path ahead is not clear, but rest assured that you're going to get through this and that you will, you know, rise above it and persevere and you will be able to follow in his footsteps and to also keep his legacy alive. Through your own actions and through your own activities. So, you know, trust your heart, keep going forward, and never give in, never give up. Add to your, you know, bravery and your resistance because the choice that you've made, um, that not to cry because it'll make the mullahs happy, that is a form of resistance in itself. So continue and you will persevere.

That's, that's so thoughtful and deep. We were just talking about this just before we started recording the podcast, right? Where these paths less traveled are really difficult to travel. Like, there's something about these paths that attract travelers like you and me in our small, small, big, massive microwaves. What is it about these paths that attracts us, Zola?

For me personally, I think it was always an issue of principle and values. But also like, what is the purpose of our existence on this world? When you look at the galaxy, we're like a small dot in this galaxy and there are millions and billions of people on this earth at any given time. What is our purpose? Is it just to live our life as normal, or do we have a purpose and how can we push forward humanity? How can we make an impact?

Yeah.

in humanity and, you know, in history. And so, um, that was something that I always thought of. Uh, when, when I was a child and people would ask me, what do you wanna become when you grow up? Usually, you know, a lot of children just, you say like a specific career or whatever. I would say I want to be someone who is of use to society or is Purposeful for society. And people would laugh at me and they're like, do you even know what that means? And I was like, yes, I do know what that means. But that was like the mission that I saw for myself, that I need to be able to serve humanity. I need to be per— you know, have a purpose in my life. And that has something that always propelled me to be, to try to be a, the better version of myself.

Yeah.

And try to improve that. Because it wasn't just about me, it was how am I being, you know, of use to my society and to my community. So that always, I think with it brought responsibility, but it also propelled you to move forward and be pushed forward. And I think that has always been very effective, at least in my own life. And I also realized that, you know, These paths that have consequences and they have a price.

Mm-hmm.

It's not something that everyone's going to do. I mean, if you understand that, if you look throughout history, I think every revolution has been create— been created prob— probably by the 1%. Um, and then it becomes popular, it becomes like 3%. It's not, you know, everyone. So are you going to be that one of those changemakers? Or are you just someone who's going to follow how the stream goes? And I think that's really important. And to be able to, there are times that you have to swim against the current. Are you willing to do that? But stand by your principles, no matter how stormy the waters or how, what the situation is. Are you in it for the long haul? I think that's really important. Yeah.

I love everything about that. And I deeply resonate with what you're saying. And we are gonna move to Iran and geopolitics and understanding your view of the world, because I'm also a beginner in that space. But before we go there, was there something that happened during your childhood or growing up years? Because what I'm also thinking is there would be someone who's listening to us right now who does not believe in it, like having a purpose or having that higher sense of serving humanity or pushing humanity forward. And they're thinking, oh, I'm just a speck of dust in this great, great, great, great, great galaxy of ours.

Yeah.

Why do you have to do anything about it? I'm just gonna like be and die. And, and I, and I, I respect that, but I feel like, was there something in your early years that shaped you up to feel like, hey, at 4 years old, I wanna be purposeful for humanity?

I think that that is the effect of, first of all, my parents. I think they were great role models in that way for me because, um, like my father was a prominent writer and a human rights activist, and so He, since, since I was born, I had always seen my parents' dedication to the cause of freedom in Iran and that they put that before their actual life paths that they had chosen, like their careers and whatnot. They had put that all aside to be able to concentrate on the human rights situation in Iran, to be active with the resistance. And so I, I had them as role models in front of me, not through their words, but through their own actions and what, how they lived their own lives. They could have had a much more prosperous life when you look at like from a financial perspective or whatnot, but that's not the path that they chose. And then I also grew up in the Iranian resistance, so I was always surrounded by, you know, these amazing people that I saw on daily basis. They would put everyone before themselves, and I think that really shaped Like how I look at the world, what I see as a purpose, and the fact that, you know, we were not in Iran, but there wasn't a day that we didn't think of the people of Iran and what their plight is and what needs to be done. And I think that really, it puts things into perspective. You start realizing that, you know, a lot of the things that on daily basis we deal with, they're not that much of a big deal, even though they may seem so.

Yeah.

Um, when we just start from ourselves and, and, you know, when it's in our own circle or in our own bubble. But when you look at the bigger picture, it loses that weight.

Hmm.

So you're able to surpass a lot of things and just move forward. I mean, there are things that they're not going to stop you. They're not going to hold you back. You could shake it off and just walk away and, um, continue. And I think that that just puts puts a lot of things into perspective.

Yeah.

And I think I was, I am part of one of the, you know, a lucky generation that had the possibility to grow up with that. I know, like, if you want to look at the empty side of the, you know, cup, yes, we, there was a lot of suffering. There was, you know, hardships. I mean, the fact that I hope that no child has to go through some of the things that we did, you know, you know, having my dad killed by the regime or being separated from my mom or things of that nature. I don't wish that on any children, but I also considered myself to be very lucky to be one of those children who experienced that. And I think that helped me become who I am today and it shaped my outlook on the world. And I'm forever grateful to my parents.

Yeah.

For, you know, choosing the path that they did and bringing, I guess, um, this, having this possibility to be acquainted with such a path that you can make that choice. Because a lot of people in the world, I think that if they came across it, they would probably want to follow it, but it's never crossed their paths. So if you don't know about something, you're not going to be able to follow it. So, yeah. Yeah.

I, I, I love that. And, and, and. I wanna put myself into the shoes of, say, a 10-year-old or a 12-year-old growing up right now in, in India or Australia, living their own life. If you were to explain the, the, the whole situation of what Iran is going through and has gone through, how would you explain it to a, to a kid?

Well, I think I'll explain it to a kid the way that I used to think of it when I was a child. I thought, you know, Iran is like this really great country with a lot of good people in it, but there's this ruler who, he, he doesn't wanna see people happy, so he takes away their smiles through different methods because he doesn't know how to smile himself. He thinks that others shouldn't have a smile either. This was a story that I used to read and say when I was a child, but so. Unfortunately, in this country right now that this ruler is ruling, kids our age don't have any, they're not able to be free like we are and go and play and do everything that we want to do. They don't have those rights. So it's really important to be their voice and to understand that, you know, they are actually, you know, denied like the basic things that we, we have, but they're standing. And they're, you know, generation after generation, they're standing and they want to bring change. They want to be able to live the way we are. They want to have freedom the way we do. And so what we can do is be their voice because children our age, 10, 12, 13, are being killed in Iran. And so we have that chance now to be their, their voice. And to tell the world that the people of Iran want freedom and they want democracy and they want to not to be ruled by like one individual or a king or a ruler or whatnot. They want to have democracy.

And something that you said that just, I had shivers down my spine. I have 2 boys who are 15 and 12. And as you said that there are kids who are 10, 11, 12, 13 who are being killed in Iran, like it, It baffles my mind beyond imagination, Zola, that how on earth in this day and age when we talk about AI and this and that and space travel and whatnot, we can't protect our children. What the, what the hell are we really doing here? How did humanity go this wrong?

I think that this is a true sign for a regime. If you kill your, the future generation, like it's the future of your country. These are your actual assets, you know, but that, that shows your true nature. Unfortunately, this isn't just today or in the recent uprising because unfortunately in the recent uprisings, when you look at the list of teenagers and children who've been killed, most of those who have been killed, which is in the thousands and thousands, are in their, you know, early 20s or younger. But this isn't just from today. I remember growing up, I always thought of Fatemeh Mesbah. She was a 13-year-old girl who was executed by the regime at the age of 13. I always thought like when I was getting older, like how much does a 13-year-old know about politics to be executed based on that? Yes, she was someone who was very informed because she was, it was like 10 at the time of the revolution. And so she grew up with the revolution in 1979. But in 1981, she was executed along with her parents and her siblings. And, you know, that entire family was wiped out. Her father was one of the merchants from the bazaar, Tehran's bazaar. He was a very well-known merchant. So these days there's a lot of parallels because the this uprising began from the bazaar and the merchants. And so her father was a leading figure in that during the 1979 revolution. And so they revolted with so many hopes and dreams, and then to have every member of their family executed.

Hmm.

To this day, their family stands as a symbol for the people of Iran. So I grew up with seeing her pictures, her pictures, she looks You could see that innocence in her, you know, this innocent girl. And I, I remember I always, even when I was a child, whenever I looked at her picture, I felt like I could feel her eyes looking at me, you know, purity that it had. I always thought, you know, based on what were they executed? And it wasn't just her. Like I, even as a child, I remember at that time, I mean, the number of executions were lower than they are now because so many people have been executed throughout the years. But to me, those who stood out were the teenagers, and I knew like their names and their, you know, what age they were. So I knew like 13, 14, 15, 16-year-olds, all of them have been executed. And so they were some— that's something that always resonated with me. Like I felt, and growing up, I think especially when I became a teenager, there was a time that, you know, uh, people are like, oh, you guys are kids. And I was like, well, are we really just kids? Because People at our age are being killed in our country. And so we understand that. Once I have that understanding, I, I remember I, I thought like, well, I'm sorry, I understand more than maybe a lot of adults because of the circumstances that I grew up in. So no, that brings responsibility. I can't say I'm a just, I'm just a child. I'm not just a child anymore because I understand these complex situations. And what our role each is. And so I think that, as I said, that just changes your perspective on a lot of things in life. And you come face to face with decisions that maybe people at that age shouldn't be making or shouldn't have to make. But those were the circumstances that we had.

Yeah, it just pains me to, to hear all of this. It's, it does not seem like there's, it's deeper than politics is what I'm trying to gather here from what you're sharing, because it feels it's psychological, it's more mental. It's more like you said, right? That the leader themselves does not know how to smile. And so all they're now trying to do is to erase smiles that are around them. Freedom is something that's innate to the human spirit, right?

Yes.

So when did freedom become such a tough fight for people in Iran? And what impact do you think it's having on the current generation and the future generations?

Well, I think that freedom is a God-given right, but it's not always something that's given, unfortunately, because there's power hunger in the world. And this is throughout history. It's not just today, it's throughout history. Egotism, you know, egoism creates that. So. If you understand, you know, the negative impacts of being egotistical comes with it. Dictatorships form from that.

Mm-hmm.

These power struggles form from that. And so there are those who, to be able to have that power, they're willing to exploit others. And that's how, you know, throughout history, from slavery till, you know, um, you know, the biases that we see in society, all of it is derived from that. I think that in Iran. Well, the, the quest for freedom has been continuing for 120 years at least. It's like the 1906 revolution till today, it's 120 years. So people of Iran have been fighting for freedom, uh, and democracy for 120 years. But unfortunately, each time that they had a revolution, it was very short-lived and it was unfortunately due to foreign intervention, it's always been prevented and the new dictatorship has come into power. So like, for instance, after the 1906 revolution, the system was changing, you know, a parliament was forming, um, you know, having constitution was forming and these things were happening and they, there was a military coup. They brought Reza Khan. To become the king and the British because he served their interests, and unfortunately start we see the start of the Pahlavi dynasty. And then twenty years later, approximately when he wasn't serving those purposes anymore, they took him out. They sent him into exile, and they brought his son in. His son, well, he was. He didn't have the strength that his father did, and he also had seen like how his father was taken out. So at first he, you know, tried to give some leeway and whatnot. He didn't have complete grip over, um, you know, society. And then while people were still going through that democratic path, so they had, they elected the prime minister, which was Dr. Mossadegh. And he nationalized Iran's oil.

Hmm.

And that was not in the interest of foreign powers, and it wasn't in the interest of the Shah because he wasn't, he, Mossadegh was putting him in his place that if you're going to be, if this is a constitutional monarchy, you need to just be a figurehead and you can't get involved into these things. And that's not something they wanted to see. So. What, what happened was the CIA and MI6 carried a coup d'état against Dr. Mossadegh and took him out, and they reinstated Reza Pahlavi. Well, from that moment, the Shah realized that, hey, it's not like that, that he can keep his grip on power, you know, that easily. So what did he do? He, the SAVAK. Was put in place. Political groups, organizations, parties were banned, and Iran became a once one-party state. The Shah said, "The only party is the Rastakhis Party. If you don't like it, leave the country or you're going to go to prison." And unfortunately, since then, thousands of political prisoners were executed in Iran. And the SAVAK was known for its notorious methods of torture and whatnot, which is. Still unprecedented to a great extent, and that is how he was able to keep his grip on power. And then the people revolted again because they didn't—that's not what they wanted. So they revolted. But it was the Cold War era, and about six months before the fall of the Shah, the international community was realizing that the Shah is about to fall, and it's not going to be able to continue this way. So what did they do? They had a conference in Guadeloupe. They had Khomeini transferred from Najaf in Iraq to Paris. They had negotiations with him. He made some empty promises to them, but they thought, this is the Cold War era. Iran plays a very important geopolitical role. It's bordering USSR. If the, you know, revolutionaries who are creating this revolution come into power, they have progressive views. So they might not be aligned with, you know, the messaging of the West, and especially because of the experience that they've had with foreign intervention in their country. And they might have leniencies to the USSR or whatnot. So maybe it's better to have a fundamentalist in power, even though we know his views are like, belong to the Middle Ages, but he's going to stand in front of the USSR. So unfortunately. Mm-hmm. Western powers brought Khomeini in. It wasn't the people of Iran who chose Khomeini. Mm-hmm. Khomeini was brought in. Also, you have to understand, due to the suppression that the Shah had created, that there's a saying in Farsi. They say whenever they wanna say, watch out what you're saying, they say, watch out, the walls have mice and the mice have ears. And this was in regards to the SAVAK because the SAVAK was everywhere and they're listening and they're. You know, whatnot. So people, they knew what they didn't want, but they didn't know what their choices were because there was complete suppression and wasn't the age of technology as it is today or communication. So people didn't hear about a lot of things. But what did the Shah extend during his time? During the time of Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, Iran went from 500 mosques to 5,000 mosques throughout the country. Hmm. Because he actually used the clergy to legitimize his power. If you look, I mean, this is a long story. I don't want to get into it. But if you even look at the names of the Pahlavi dynasty, they're all like Reza, Ali Reza, Mohammad Reza, something Reza. Because Imam Reza, which is the 8th Shia Imam who was Iranian and is buried in Mashhad. They wanted to create that connection to say that we are his descendants. And so we are, you know, um, and then the Shah actually said that when I was a child, Imam Ali came into my dreams and told me when I was 5 that, you know, I, this is my role and this is, you know, whatever, I'm the chosen one and whatnot. And he called himself the shadow of God on earth.

Mm-hmm.

That's what he titled himself. So they used the clergy to, you know, legitimize their power. And so the only network that was intact at the time of the revolution was the clergy. Everyone else was in the prisons or executed and killed. Those who were not touched were the clergy. So that's why they were able to fill that vacuum really quick.

Mm-hmm.

And that power vacuum. And so. We are where we are. So unfortunately, that is why Iranians are so, uh, critical or hesitant also, or agitated over the issue of, you know, foreign intervention in their country. Because we have that experience. Yeah. We don't want foreign intervention in our country. We think that our people have, they have strength, they have the willpower, and they have the desires there. Everything is there. They, they can create change. Themselves. Yeah, they have that in them. And so what is important is all they're asking for the international community is, could you please not intervene? And that means no war, no appeasement. It means not negotiating with the regime and using the people and the resistance as bargaining chips. Then we have the potential to create change ourselves. That is the message of the Iranian people because, you know, um, Unfortunately, I mean, if you look at, there have been a lot of attempts that through foreign intervention, they've tried to bring in democracy. Democracy can't be brought in through foreign intervention. We've seen it, um, in just in the Middle East, look at the situation. So the people, everyone want to take their destiny into their own hands.

Yeah.

They, they are. So as Mrs. Rajavi, the president-elect of the Iranian Resistance, always says, she says, She's been, she hasn't been saying this today. For the past 20 years, she's been saying this, 21 years now. The choice is not between war or appeasement. There's a third option, and that's supporting the Iranian people in their resistance. And the people of Iran, as a solution, they're not stuck between choosing between the current theocracy and the previous monarchy, which was a dictatorship too.

Hmm.

They want to move forward to a secular democratic republic.

Yeah.

A republic with separation of religion and state. So that in itself draws, you know, a line with all forms of tyranny that we have experienced in the last century in Iran. And I think that especially the Gen Z of Iran right now who are in the forefront of the, this uprising, they are seeing, we are in the age of communication. They are seeing the world and they know that what we have, this is not the norm.

Yeah.

This is not life. A lot of 'em say we're alive, but we're not living. So this is, you can't continue with this current status quo. Everyone knows that no one's going to hand us freedom on a silver platter. We have to pay the price for it. But because they have that assurance that there's a bright future ahead and they are willing to take that risk, they're willing to make that sacrifice. And that's what we're seeing on the streets of Iran, that bravery, that the fact that, you know, that resilience, that the fact that they're on the offensive even with empty hands standing in front of military guards or like suppressive forces who are armed to the teeth. That is because they are rest assured that, you know what, even if we die in this path, there, there are guarantees that we will be able to see a free Iran.

Mm-hmm.

The people of Iran or the future generations or our generation will see that free Iran, but someone has to be willing to pay that price. And they understand that today better than anyone else because they've seen the last 47 years. What has led, what has allowed the regime to extend its lifeline all these years? It's because due to the brutalities of the regime, due to the fact that 120,000 people have been executed just for their political views.

Mm-hmm.

Under this regime due to the fact that just in 2025, 2,200 people were executed in Iran. And these are just the official numbers. People realize that, you know, families, I mean, it's, it's, I guess your instinct, uh, to, you know, survival of the fittest, right? So you try to safeguard your own family, your own, your loved ones, and just keep them safe. Don't go in the streets. Don't do this. Don't do that. But And if we don't go to the streets, nothing's going to change. How we want to continue living? Is this what we want for our future? I think that's the point that the Iranian society has reached today.

Yeah. That we are alive, but we are not living. But I'm, I'm thinking of someone who's like a Gen Z or a young person who's seeing what's opening up in the world. At this moment, me as an Iranian Gen Z would be super angry almost. And so what are you seeing? Like, is this, is this revolution fueled by that anger and rage, or is it fueled by passion and vision? And if there's something else, I'd love to hear from you.

I think it's a mixture of both. I think that first of all, there is an extent to how far anger can, can fuel your activities and whatnot. When you want to go into something like this, it has to come out of love. And passion and that ideal. Um, there's an extent, I'm like, for instance, myself. I mean, if it was only an issue of like revenge for my father's death, I, why would I take that risk on my own life? Because it's going to be the continuation of the same thing. The only thing that gives me that strength and that courage and that inspiration to continue is the fact that I truly want to see the freedom of the Iranian people. Even if that comes at the price of my life, that's fine. And that's what, that's the same love and passion that I saw in my dad too. Like my dad, the way he would talk to me, like I've never actually been to Iran, unfortunately. I was born and raised abroad. My dad comes from a small town in the south, southern part of Iran. And the passion that he had talking about that, you know, small town and, you know, it's a rural area and, you know. And the way he spoke about them, like you could tell that he was willing to give, sacrifice everything in his life for those people, you know, for, for that shepherd that he grew up knowing, for that, you know, like that small town, like the little, the people there, like the way he spoke about them. And I, that was something. And he was someone who was like, he had his doctorate in sociology, was like prominent writer and whatever. But he never left. His heart was still there, you know?

Yeah.

And that love. And he was like, they deserve so much better. They, they're such good people. They deserve so much. And he always talked about it so much that I had took pride in saying that, yeah, I am from that little village in Iran. When I was a kid, people would like joke around with me and they're like, you were born in the heart of the USA in Washington, DC. And you're like, I'm proud to say I'm from this village in Iran. And I was like, yeah, I am proud to say, when you ask me where am I from, I don't say Iran. I say I'm from that village. I'm from Khais. And I, like, my dad had actually added the name of that village to his last name, but in parentheses.

Yeah.

And I ended up adding it to my last name, like completely. I remember my mom saw my signature once, like after I was grown up, like just a few years ago, and she was like, Hold on, you've added that to your last name? I was like, yeah. And she's like, since when? I was like, since I was 10. And she, she, she found it like really interesting. She was like, that's interesting. Your dad even had it in parentheses. I was like, yeah, well, I've added it to my last name. But you know, that sense of love and pride, um, I think that's really important.

And it is a deep sense of love.

That's what propels us to move forward. Correct. Revenge is like a Very dead circle. And you're not going to, I mean, you're not going to continue this fight for like 26. I've been in this resistance for 26 years. Maybe even in my initial decision that didn't play, if that wasn't a factor, it was important for me that if my dad would be proud of me following in his footsteps, but it wasn't, I want revenge for those who killed my dad because that cycle of death is never going to end.

They would.

In revenge. And that is why I think it's very beautiful that Mrs. Marjabe, in her 10-point plan, the 3rd point in that 10-point plan is the abolition of the death penalty.

Mm-hmm.

And all forms of torture in a future of Iran and the abolition of all of the, you know, suppressive forces and whatnot. It would be, I mean, understandable for people like, like automatically a lot of people just Automatically they think that, okay, well, after the fall of the regime, these, the, the true, like, Khomeini and whatever, they need to be eliminated, killed, whatever.

Mm-hmm.

But Mrs. Vajev says no. She says there needs to be a judicial process. There needs to be courts. There needs to be, these lessons need to be learned in history, but we're not going to, how do we legitimize or Legitimize taking away a life. Yeah. Because then someone else is going to legitimize it for someone else too. Correct. And this cycle is never going to end.

100%.

I found it very interesting that like I was reading something and I found, I, it was from back in 1979, back after the revolution, uh, the Khomeini, they were having, you know, members of the Shah's government or whatever killed, executed, or elected members of the SAVAK. And they went to, and then the MEK found out, the Iranian Resistance, and they went and gave an official statement. They said, not on, you know, under our names. We were the ones who were tortured the most by the SAVAK. We were the ones who have given the martyrs, but we, this is not what we want.

Yeah.

Our suggestion is give us the Olympic, you know, this city that they set up for the Olympics. Mm-hmm. Give, give that to us. We will set up infrastructure like hotels.

Hmm.

This is where these people will be held. Mm-hmm. And then let's have dialogues with them. Let's try to understand what was the mentality behind it. Why did they join these suppressive forces? Why did they? take part in torture and try to learn lessons from that to make sure that it's not repeated.

Yeah. Yeah.

And these are for those who have regrets at the fact that they did this. So let's just try to gain from it for society and learn from it and to try to prevent these things from shaping again. And so I think that's like 2 different mentalities of how to look at things. And when I was reading it, I was really Even though I'm a member of this movement and I know that that's what we believe in and what we stand for. But the fact that back then in 1979, the leader of this movement who was just 30 years old and had just come out of— was the last set of political prisoners who was released from prison. This is what his reaction was. And this is how, you know, the suggestions they had. I think it's, it says volumes about You know, the values and the principles that they stood by. And just imagine if that was the path that had been taken after the 1979 revolution. If instead of Khomeini, those revolutionaries had actually been able to create that democratic republic that they wanted to have for the people of Iran. And I think that today Iran could have been a great power that would be able to push society and humanity into a positive direction instead of being a destabilizing force and the number one state sponsor of terrorism and the number one executioner in the world. For our people, it's always sad that we are the country that had the first human rights charter, and now it's the number one country in executions and suppression.

Wow. It would've been such a different world. There's so much depth in this conversation. I'm, I'm processing everything that, that you're sharing. If you were to, to everyone who's listening to this outside of Iran, if you were to give them one message on what they can learn from this movement, to anyone who's in India, in Australia, in parts of Europe, in America, what do they learn from this movement?

I think, I think one of the most important things is the fact that this movement has turned its principles to its policies. So what we hear about politics always is politics is a dirty world, and that's what we see. But the fact that they have changed, turned their values and their principles into the policy that they push forward and their messaging and to be standing for that and promoting that. And that is what has helped us stand continuously for 60 years, despite all the efforts to try to have us eliminated completely.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I think that it has been able to create a whole movement around the world. Bringing people together that never thought they would be able to sit at the same table or be under the same roof. We used to have these annual gatherings in Paris and 100, like 100,000 people would attend and there would be about 600 dignitaries from around the world, from the Arab world to the US, to Europe, to Australia, everywhere. We even have people who came from India always too. So from really around the world. at least 600 dignitaries. And then you would have, so from around the world, but also from both sides of like the spectrum, like the political spectrum from far right to far left, were all united on this one issue. And there was a picture once that there was this one person, I mean, 2 politicians. I won't say their names because I don't want to point them out, but one was supposed to be like considered very left in the US, and one was considered to be like hawkish in the US. And they were both sitting together and looking inside one phone and trying to work together to tweet. It was the beginning of Twitter back then.

Right.

And that picture became viral. Like, you know, everyone thought like, whoever thought that these 2 people would actually agree on anything with one another? But this movement was one thing that they agreed on.

community.

And so we always emphasize that because in the propaganda war, they try to use this against us, like with different parties that come, especially in the US. One day they'll be like, these people support them. And then the next day they'll be like, oh, these people support them. They'll, they'll try to use it against us. But the reality is that they're supporting us. It's not that this movement is supporting their views. They are supporting the views of this movement because they can find those core principles and values in it. And I think that's really important. That's how Mrs. Rajavi has been able to lead. Also, one of the things that I also find interesting, when you look at the committees, the NCRA has 25 committees, but the committees in themselves, they actually speak volumes.

Mm-hmm.

There's, um, you know, in every government, these committees represent like ministries in a government, right? In every government, there's a defense ministry. Ministry of Defense, or now in the US it's war or whatnot. In the NCRI, the equivalent is the Peace Committee.

Beautiful. Beautiful.

How are we going to use that to reach peace instead of waging war or defense or whatnot? So I think that these are like principles that they speak volumes and it's very important.

Yeah. Amazing. Thank you for sharing. I, that's such a beautiful thought, turning your principles and your values into policies. As we get to this end of this conversation, Zohra, and thank you for sharing everything that you did, I think it absolutely gives lessons that we can put into practice, and I'll reiterate all of that. But if now we go into the future and there's the 80-year-old Zohra, 80 years old, 8-0, and that Zohra comes to you right now in this moment and has one piece of advice on how to lead the rest of your years, what would that 80-year-old tell you to do?

I'm sure that that 80-year-old would tell me things that I don't know right now, but if I were to guess, they would tell me, you know, about that the life choices made, they were in the right path. Iran is free and we are seeing it, you know, the prosperity of Iran and Iranians and the country that once was unfortunately the epicenter of fundamentalism and terrorism and warmongering and execution. is now, you know, the center of pushing forward civilization and, you know, equality, gender equality, you know, between the ethnicities and also promoting those values that all human beings are created equal and they need to be treated as equal. And it's, you know, taking its rightful place in the international community as a stabilizing force, as a country that has—

Mm-hmm.

so much potential to give. Mm-hmm. Because currently Iran is the number one, has the number one brain drain in the world. So just imagine if all of those assets are actually stayed used to the, for the, you know, pushing forward. And I think that would be a beautiful Iran that we hope to see soon.

Amazing. Thank you for sharing. So heartfelt for everyone who's still listening to us, with us on this journey with Zohlar. The life choices that make you, when you get to that 80-year-old self, they took you on the right path. Always remember, all human beings are equal. We're all beautiful, amazing, amazing beings. Anything that you do should be fueled by love and passion, maybe a mix of anger, but use it for the right reasons and in the right way. Think about what you have right now that millions across the world don't, and be full of gratitude for what you have. I love the fact what you shared, Zorro, that the choice is not between war and appeasement. It is to let Iran choose for itself. Freedom is a God-given right, but power and egoism leads to freedom being compromised. There are times when you'll have to swim against the currents. There'll be times when you'll have to pursue a path that's less taken. If you're willing to, you will last. You will not give in. You will not give up. The times will be tough. They will be hard, but you will get through and rise above. If you can start to all our listeners, if you can start to put these things into practice and get informed about what's happening across the world, and be curious to learning the other person's viewpoint, magical things can happen. Magical things. We'll put all the links where you can connect with Zola, and if you have more questions, feel free to reach out to her. We'll put those links in the in the show notes below. Zola, any final thoughts before we?

Well, I think you've said everything beautifully. Yeah. Thank you for this opportunity and thank you for those who have listened so far. And my final words, I guess, is please, wherever you are, don't take for granted what you have and try to use it and actually try to echo the voice of the Iranian people. And the fact that, I mean, right now there is a lot of dialogue about Iran everywhere. So echo that message of the Iranian people that, you know, there is, there are third options on Iran, be it. Yes. It's not, the solution is not war or appeasement, it's supporting the people and their resistance. And also we're not stuck between choosing between theocracy and classical dictatorship, a monarchy. We can move forward to a secular democratic republic, and I hope that we'll be able to see that soon.

Thank you everyone for listening. If you think there's someone who would value this conversation and will learn more from what Zohra and I spoke about, share it with them. If you are here, put your name in the comment, put something that you're taking away from this conversation. It'll mean the world to us. This is Utkarsh and Zohra signing off.

Bye.