Why You Feel Lonely Even When You're Surrounded by People | Soreya James | IgnitedNeurons Podcast

Her son called her and said, Mom, I don't want to see you tonight. 20 minutes later, he was sitting in her room holding hands. No talking, no phone, only their breath. Soraya James has spent 20 years teaching Kundalini yoga and meditation, mentored by teachers like Deepak Chopra and Eckhart Tolle. So in our podcast today, I asked her the 5 questions that I know you would be asking her. The first one, why do I feel lonely on a day that I've been talking to people throughout the day?

There's a lot of loneliness, there's a lot of isolation. There's a lot of, you know, connection with a screen, connection with technology as opposed to human connection.

2. I keep chasing things, but the gaps don't fill. What am I really after?

Underneath everything, it's— yeah, it is. It's a craving for love and connection.

3. Why do I go quiet when I need someone the most?

We tend to hide when we're feeling upset or And number 4, sitting alone feels unbearable.

Is it just me?

Within about the first 3 hours, I was like, why have I done this? Oh my God, I can't leave.

The 5th one, I don't have an hour every day for this kind of stuff. Is there something that works under a minute?

So it supports anxiety, it supports racing thoughts, it supports negative mind. 1 minute.

If you stay on till the end of the podcast, you'll get the answers to all of these 5 questions. And you'll get a tool for yourself that you'll be able to practice starting tonight. And no, it won't take an hour of your time. It'll just take under a minute. Let's dive in. Overstimulated, disconnected, and constantly searching for meaning and validation. That's what has happened to all of us in this day and age. But when that stops working and that outer achievement stops working and we start to lack that inner alignment, the disconnection overwhelms you. And today's conversation is about that inner wisdom, is about that emotional strength, the authenticity that you need to work with to be able to build a life that you can call successful. And today I have Surya James, who's joining from New Zealand. How are you, Surya?

I am very, very well, and I'm very pleased to be here. Thank you for having me, Utkarsh.

Absolutely. Looking forward to this conversation. One thing I always wonder, Surya, is that— and I was watching something on TV yesterday, which is Kind of bringing this question back to me. And you've seen humans at different extremes, and I'm sure that as I have, you would've been at extremes as well in life. What do you think people are actually craving for from this life?

I feel like we're craving connection, that there's a lot of loneliness, there's a lot of isolation, there's a lot of connection with A screen connection with, um, you know, technology as opposed to human connection. And I also feel like a lot of people don't actually realize that that's what they are craving. So they're reaching for these other substances or things to stimulate them. But then you put 2 humans together and have a conversation, have a hug, and then the heart. sort of comes into a different beat and there's a smile and there's a joy that maybe some of us have forgotten. You know, I know that for myself. So underneath everything, it's, yeah, it is. It's a craving for love and connection.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And what's deeply moving there is that I think what you said, that we don't even realize that we are craving that because we've forgotten that, that deep feeling of holding someone's hand and walking in the park. We've forgotten that, that hugging that friend that you've met after a few weeks because you feel that you're connected on Facebook and LinkedIn and this and that. You feel connected, but are you really connected?

Yeah, exactly. I had that with my son the other day. He was going through something and he was like, mom, I just don't want to see you. I just don't want to see you. And I knew underneath his suffering that what he needed was a mother's hug and a mother's heart. So I turned up at his house and the moment he saw me, he was 21, but the moment he saw me, he kind of just fell into my arms. You know, and I just held him and breathed slow and deep and, and trained our heart coherence together. And then we spent the afternoon together and he felt so much better, so much lighter after having that human connection, because he'd naturally wanted to isolate himself. And I think that's many of what we do. We, we tend to hide when we're feeling upset or low or you know, whatever human nature brings us in our emotionality rather than reaching out to someone and saying, I actually need some support. I think I find that that's the hardest thing to do. And naturally people are there for us, you know, mostly.

Yeah. Yeah, true. I think we also need the strength to just reach out because that also is super important. As I'm having this conversation with you, you know, one of the questions that we start the podcast with is that if you were to now in this moment reach out to that 8-year-old Soraya, that 8-year-old little kid growing wherever you were, if that Soraya comes and meets you right now in that present self right now, what kind of a conversation, what dialogue would emerge between the two of you, the 8-year-old and the present Soraya?

Ah, she's so sunshiny. And bright. She's a little bright light and she would feel possibly a little sad that I'm not experiencing that as an adult.

Mm-hmm.

She'd take my hand and she'd want to dance with me and she'd want me to sing with her and, and, you know, go and play on the beach and just experience the joy that she was naturally. Um, she'd, she'd ask me to play, you know, be playful and light and, and childlike. She'd let me know that, you know, you've grown up too much and there's this childlike innocence that is always inside of you. Like she'd remind me that she's inside of me and that I need to listen to her a little bit more, maybe a lot more. not take life so seriously.

Yeah, yeah. What happens to us? What happens during these years of adulting? And what happened, maybe, because we are reflecting for you in this moment, what happened for you that that sunshiny Surya was lost somewhere?

Just the natural life of conditioning, like being, you know, I think a lot of people talk about being conditioned by their parents, But there's this vast array of people that we are growing up with, teachers, siblings, cousins, grandparents, family, family friends. And there's just this kind of array of noise that comes into a child's life from all of the people and all the, all of the impressions that slowly start to have us believe.

Mm-hmm.

what we are not. So it slowly starts to place these layers of, you know, judgments or fears or anxieties, and we don't really understand it as a child, but we know it in our bodies. You know, when, when someone says to you, stop doing that, or you shouldn't, or try this, you know, people wanting to sort of create their own identity through their children or through their As students, we don't necessarily hear the words, but we feel it as an experience in our body.

Mm-hmm.

So that layering just continues to cover the natural diamond that we are as children. You know, and those first 7 years are really formative years. And after that, it's very, very hard to undo what has already been conditioned.

Yeah.

So for me, you know, there was a lot that went on in my childhood, good, bad, and ugly. But we tend to be more imprinted with the things that have hurt, hurt and harmed us, as opposed to the things that have healed and helped us. And that's, yeah, it's a part of our kind of human nature of having to then live the rest of our lives undoing Those formative years.

Yeah. Harmed and hurt versus healed and helped.

Yeah.

Is it more nurture or is it more nature that makes us focus on one of these?

I honestly feel it's both. That, you know, we come in with our generational trauma, but we also come in with this infinite wisdom that's come through the generations before us. And, and it's all of it's in our DNA. Like we can tap into the brilliance of our, our history, but we're also pulling forth, you know, the, the darker aspects of the human psyche. And so that's nature. And then it's, it is, it's also how we are nurtured, um, through our formative years. But you have these stories of, you know, this child grew up to be a misfit in society, or they've grown up and they've become a, you know, a gang member or an addict or whatever it might be. And people say it's so odd because they were brought up in such a great family. You know, their parents were pillars of society and, you know, they gave everything to their child. And then the complete opposite happens as well. You know, some of us are born in, in very impoverished, uh, homes and, and cultures and turn out to be this incredibly successful, whatever you want to place as what success means.

Yeah.

So for me, that has me questioning. that it must be both. It's not one or the other.

Yeah, I agree with that. It's a balance that one can't really measure what's impacting what, but I think there's an element of choice in there as well, which we could call it consciousness, which we could call it the mindset. People have different words for that. And I think you spoke about Success, so many definitions, right? Each person could have their own definition of success. And so when you work with successful people, and I've seen that in my work as well, what do you think is missing? What do you think that we see as outer success, but there are layers to that outer success that nobody talks about in public?

I can only speak of my own experience. There's the child inside of me that has been seeking validation.

Mm-hmm.

Because as a child, I was given so much validation. Now, if you think about little kids, it's like, oh my gosh, she's so cute, or look at how he's doing this. And we get so much attention given to us that quite naturally we are formed to be validated, to have that attention. And so As we grow up, it's like we're constantly seeking that. And many, and people seek it in so many different forms.

Yeah.

So I feel like when we're reaching for that success and whatever that may be, a successful relationship, a successful career, a successful, um, bank, you know, the bank account, the, the fundamental driver of that is seeking validation from external sources. And then what actually imposes upon that or obstructs that are those, I don't know, you know, you could call it your sabotaging mechanisms or the, that, that deep knowing or the deep unknown inside of us that is not necessarily believing that we deserve or that we're worthy or.

Mm-hmm.

we might get the thing and then not know how to hold onto it because we don't have the capacity. We haven't been, we haven't been conditioned or, or taught how to actually nurture and, um, and hold onto the very thing that we deem as success.

Hmm.

And I do believe that that's why if you look across humanity as a whole, there's so much diversity and what success is. You know, people will say to me that from the outside I have a successful life, but there's still a part of me going, yes, but I haven't reached this.

Hmm.

I'm— I haven't got that. And then people will say, but you've got the thing that I want, and that's that inner peace, that's that balance of mind. And I'm going, well, you've got the thing that I want, and that's the Whatever that might be, you know? So I really feel like for me personally, and that the people that I've worked with over the years, that it comes back to that deep, deep, deep lack sense of there's a lack of something as opposed to that natural sense of prosperity and abundance, which is not always.

Mm-hmm.

Money. It's not always materialism.

So fascinating. I love the idea of how that almost as we grow up, there's a lot of validation and how that need for validation continues to impact us throughout then our journeys. I've had people who have coached us where Till a certain point when they're, say, in college doing their degree, there's always a goalpost that you're walking towards. And so life feels like, oh, once I achieve that, done. Once I achieve that, done. But then once you get into like this other phase of life where now you got to do the thing every day, you got to wake up every day and go to work or find work or do something meaningful to create Enough of an outcome to hit your financial needs and all of that and take care of kids and families and all of that, then there's no end goal, right? So you'll have to keep pursuing that. And through all of that, you'll be challenged because there'll be a part of you that'll be wanting like, when do I get validated? When do I feel like I've succeeded? And so how do you look at this cycle? People call it the rat race. I feel differently about it, but what's your perception of the cycle that we end up building for our own lives?

I just think that the majority of us are on the treadmill and we're trying to get to the place called there. I mean, you think about that saying, I'm going to get there one day. I'm nearly there. And I often say to people, where is this place there? And they're like, what do you mean? And I say, the, the thing that you call there, like, what is that? What does it look like? What does it feel like? What are you going to do when you get there? How are you going to be different when you get there? And it's like, like you say, there's the, I can't wait to have a boyfriend or girlfriend. The relationship happens and then people will say, well, you guys have been together a couple of years. Like, are you going to move in together? When are you going to get engaged? Then you get engaged. When are you going to get married? When you get married, when are you going to have a child? When are you going to have your second child? When are you going to buy a house? And so there's this constant need for striving of all of these things on the outside.

Yeah.

I wonder if we will ever finally get to that place where rather than waiting to be on our deathbed. And saying, I wish I'd done, my regrets are, I, I, I didn't do that. We might just live that now, you know, and really understand the importance of, of human connection and of spending time with our loved ones now.

Yeah.

Of not being too busy that our children are constantly vying for our attention.

Yeah.

Or that friend that rang and you would, I'll call you back, I'm busy. That, you know, that they really needed you. Like, are we actually going to reach that place or is it too late because of the incredible amount of stimulation that life is bombarding us with? Like the dopamine, constant dopamine hits that are taking us out of presence. I don't know if that answers your question. I think I went on a bit of a tangent.

It gives us more questions to reflect upon and ponder. of fun through the podcast. I was at a concert at the Rod Laver Arena on Saturday last week, and there was this Indian artist who had come there. He's very philosophical about his music and all of that. And he started the concert with this reflection that as we're sitting there, all of us, maybe in their 25s and 30s and 40s and 50s, that's the age group the podcast also caters to, we would reflect back to our school days, we will reflect back to our uni days and think, wow, those are amazing days. We got to hang out with friends. We did not have like $100,000 in the pocket, but we had joy, we had freedom, we had connection. And we reflect on those days, and those very normal days feel extraordinary right now in that introspection.

Yeah.

And what he said was, then what's stopping you for calling this moment, this exact moment when you're alive, which in a few years from now you'll call extraordinary, why don't you call it extraordinary right now?

Yeah.

And it was such a powerful start to the evening that I felt, and I did not understand 80% of the words because it was, India is a very diverse country, so it was a language that my wife understood really well, but I did not. And so 80% of the content did not make any sense to me, but the emotion, just the presence, just the being there was phenomenal. Yeah, I think, yeah, that's what you're, that's what you're talking about. Extraordinary life is right now.

Yeah. Like we just don't, I mean, I'm talking to myself as well, but I don't know anyone that lives just right now in this moment. Like one of the, one of the, the mantras that I use as much as I can is what is the next natural step? So when I find my mind going off into some future dream state or hope or wanting or desire, or, you know, off into the past, oh, I should have done that. What if, what if, what if, what if? I take a few breaths and I ask myself, Saraya, what's just the next natural step?

Yeah.

You don't have to think about the huge vision or how you're going to make this happen or Just the next natural step. And sometimes it's just have a cup of tea, go and sit in the sun for 2 minutes.

Yeah.

Take 3 breaths. It's really simple. And, and we've, humanity has complicated things so much and some of it works. I mean, some of, you know, the, the most recent technology is like, wow. But man, life is so complicated for so many people now that we really have forgotten the essence and the true nature of who we are and to be here now. And it's just, it's a, it's a teaching for me every day. Yeah.

Yeah. It's just so fascinating, right? And you could have someone who's in our audiences between 25 and 45, someone who's 26 years old right now listening to us 18 minutes into the conversation, they're like, Let me switch to some other podcast or something else because these two talking here about some inner fluff is not ambitious enough.

Yeah.

And so how do we balance that? Because there's a constant need for striving and of becoming better and of moving to that next stage and getting to that next path, whatever that looks like. And so you wanna be ambitious in life, but it's almost like you also wanna be content with what you have right now. So where is the balance, Surya?

I just feel if we learn to follow our joy and to follow life, the life force, the natural life force that sits inside of each and every one of us, then we're going to be lit up by our purpose, by what it is that we're striving for or what we want to do in life. Like everyone has to have something that brings them alive.

Yeah.

And there's a lot of people that are compromising what is true for them. So it's, I'm not saying sit around and meditate and live in the now and, and, you know, drink masala chai tea, which is, you know, and just sit in the sun.

Yeah, just get the sun. You don't have to work. Don't attend that Zoom call.

It's not realistic. What I'm saying is, The mind will naturally create neuroses and stressors that create that lack. I need to have that thing or do that thing because I don't have it and I'm not happy. As opposed to, I'm going to create this incredible multimillion-dollar business through serving humanity or through working in the tech world or through creating, you know, whatever it might be, because this brings me alive. This brings me joy. This is my creative consciousness and creative energy that's coming to life and doing something that's meaningful for me. Yeah. So it's, it's a balance of not going for the thing because it looks good, because it, it's, um, it's going to get you millions of followers. Like, fuck it.

Okay.

If that brings you joy, so be it. But it's about, it's balancing out the, The, I guess, you know, the way I'm thinking, the way it's sort of coming up now, it's like that negative positive aspect of the human psyche. Am I doing this to bring me to, uh, to light myself up and, and it be all self-centered?

Hmm.

Or am I doing this because it's very honest and it's very true? And it's supportive, and it's making me feel whatever it makes you feel, that then is helping you to connect outwardly.

Yeah. I think it needs a lot of inner work. It needs a lot of inner work to be able to do all of that, because I was thinking about this, and as I was telling you before we started recording, this has been one of those weeks where my mind is running a lot. And I'm physically not tired, but I'm mentally starting to feel like I need a deep breath. And so I think when that happens, and I was reflecting, even comparison starts to— it is a thief of joy. And yes, you compare yourself to someone who's higher. But I was figuring out, Surya, that even comparing myself to myself from a few weeks ago is making me feel tired because maybe I'm— reflecting on things that are negative. And why I'm bringing that up right now is that to that 26-year-old listening to us, if you were to give them a mental model of what they can start to do right now that'll help them stay grounded, work in their inner self, but also stay very ambitious, what would that one thing be?

I like to use, and my son likes this one as well, and he's in his early 20s, is very simple. Is that a useful thought? Is this a useful thought or is this a useless thought? Because the mind's always going to go, right? We can't actually quiet it really. It's not that easy.

Yeah.

So as the thought arises, is this useful? Is this useless or is this not useful? That's as simple as like, is this podcast going to be useful for some people? Sure. For others, no.

Yeah.

I mean, this particular one, this conversation is having a shower every day is, you know, feeding yourself healthy food. That's useful. These thoughts of what I need to do to support myself useful. It's a really simple one and it actually works quite well. quite well and say, oh, that's not a useful thought. So you can kind of throw it in the bucket, if you like, and then the next thought will come through. And generally they start balancing themselves out.

Yeah. That's a really simple tool. I like that. And what you said, I think it's very apt that the thoughts are not going to stop even while you're in meditation. The thoughts are going to come and go based on how they want to be in their their state. But yeah, this is a good question to ask. Is this a useful thought? And if not, move on.

Yeah. And you can acknowledge it as well. So, you know, you don't have to be in meditation. You can be just busy in your life. Oh, that's a useful thought. Thank you. And then the mind does this interesting thing where it goes, oh, I'm being acknowledged. I'm going to give another one. That's a useful thought. Oh, thank you. And the mind's like a small child. So when we give it praise, it gives you more to be praised. But when we judge the mind and bring shame and guilt and judgment on top of already judging, the mind just, it feeds off that. So it's, it's, it's a really good practice to start watching your thoughts and go, oh, oh, that one's useful. Thank you. And you thank it. Oh, that's not so useful. Let's try again. And the mind will go searching. for a thought that's like a higher vibration, a higher frequency of that last thought when you give it a prompt. So you're giving it your own AI prompt. I like that.

I like you're prompting your human intelligence, your HI, to think about and do. That's very cool. I love that. So everyone who's listening— sorry, go ahead.

Humans make silly choices. We do silly things. And so if we then go, oh God, that was so stupid. We're layering on top of the thing we just did. And then, oh God, I shouldn't have done that. And, and, and so it's like, okay, I did that thing. I probably, you know, let's not do that again. And the mind goes, yeah. And you go, thank you. And you start having this more of a higher frequency conversation.

Hmm.

What, how could we do that differently next time? Let's create something really amazing. And the mind's like, oh yeah, okay.

Yeah. Yeah. It starts to feel lighter, right? Because you're signaling the mind for the right things.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

I also feel concerned about the overwhelmed amount of noise that comes to us. So, yeah. And so that makes me question, are we becoming a generation that's really Emotionally overwhelmed or are we emotionally disconnected?

I think both. If I look at my son, his girlfriend, his group of friends, you know, the, the, the younger generation, like the stimulation is overbearing. It's not just overwhelming, but it's overbearing. And the, uh, the speed at which it's coming towards the human mind. Now, I do believe that the younger, as, as the generations come through, that your brains are wired a little differently to ours, to our parents, to our grandparents. Um, I do believe that to be true. And I've had teachers that have told me that as well. And I still look at the amount of stimulation that is coming towards your generation specifically and how the unconscious mind or how, you know, how the, the superconscious and the conscious and the unconscious mind can actually take that information in. Like, I don't feel that our human brain is wired Right now to be able to take it in at the pace that it's coming in. And that's why we've got mental health and the, you know, and the state that it's in at the moment globally. We've got, you know, the amount of suicides that happen to young people, the amount of addiction that's taking place. And I mean, there's the equal and opposite of that too. There's some absolute geniuses that are coming through, but, you know, I kind of look out there at the moment and I'm, and I'm curious to see how the next generation actually cope and what coping mechanisms they use to, to deal with the, yeah, this amount that's, that's being processed, like this processor.

Yeah, there's so much. There's so much all the time. All the time.

Yeah.

And it's also driven by— and you're talking about your son, so send this to him so that he can listen to it. He'll not like you very much after the podcast because my children don't like me when I share their stories. But I was talking to my elder one and he's 15. And what were we talking about? We were talking about something where he was putting a very strong point of view about something. And I was telling him, oh, about choice of music. We were talking about Imagine Dragons, and he said, "Who listens to Imagine Dragons anymore?" And I'm like, "They're a really good band. I still listen to them. I love their songs and this and that." Have you heard Imagine Dragons, Sawyer?

I one or two songs. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. So so then then I know what will he's one of those logical brains. So I go to ChatGPT under the the dining table, and I find what's the data that I can give him that it'll da da da. And I tell him, like, on Spotify, it has about 56 million listeners every month. So that means people are still listening to it. And he's like, but only old people listen to it. I'm like, how can you tell me that? And what I'm trying to say is that these algorithms have started to control what they're choosing to say and do.

Yeah.

Is that I think it's just becoming harder and harder for that new generation to have a different perspective. And I'm no different. How are you seeing that play out?

Well, it's also that they're not using, they're not using their own intelligence so much. You know, I remember my son saying when he was at school, he was like, why do I need to go to school, mum? I've got Google. I don't need a calculator. I can just go in and use my phone. I don't need to learn how to write. I'm on a computer. And I thought, that's the truth, you know?

True.

So. My sense is that their natural intelligence is actually being dumbed down because they're not having to think for themselves. They're constantly going to ChatGPT or whatever AI, Google search or whatever to find the information. And are they using their intuition? Is that intuitive to go and then ask something? house. Um, I, I don't necessarily agree with the antiquated schooling system at all, but it's also very unsupportive for our kids around, you know, social behavior. Like, you go anywhere and everyone's just sitting on their phone these days.

Yeah.

Like, they're not talking, their social skills, therefore it's creating isolation. Disconnection. Um, and yeah, in terms of algorithms, it's like, it's, it's, it's all— it almost feels to me like it is absolutely creating the truth based on, on what something— this something else is. Yeah, they're thinking for themselves. Yeah, but such and such says— and I'm like, yeah, but What do you think about it? Yeah, well, it doesn't matter. It absolutely matters.

Fascinating. Fascinating. This is an ever-evolving relationship that human beings have with technology now because it's so pervasive. And I think it'll need a lot of awareness for all of us, all 8.8 billion of us, to really pause and ask. Again, as you said, right? When you ask, is this a useful thought or a useless thought? You can ask, is this a useless technology or a useful technology? Am I using it in the right way or not? I think, yeah, that might help us, but I think it's the pause that's lacking, right? People are not pausing enough to ask these questions.

Yeah, no, we're not. We're absolutely being controlled by the machines, like literally the pharmaceutical machine, the medical machine, the technological machine. You know, The Matrix, gosh, watch that movie again. I've watched it a couple of times in my, you know, more mature years and I'm like, oh my God, there's so many movies out there that have given us the insight, but here we are watching technology to gain insight as opposed to—

Yeah, true, true. I think there's also a very tough relationship with silence. What's your perspective on, on just the, the relationship we can have with silence?

Well, obviously it's not very silent inside of this space, but to spend time in silence, like with the phone off or away, with the computer down, with no television on, and just be in nature. Nature is our teacher. Like when you sit on the beach or on a mountain or walk by a stream, you know, she teaches us. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to sit down and close your eyes and meditate. I mean, the noise of the mind has a field day when we do that. But to spend, you know, I spend hours and hours and hours in silence throughout a day.

Hmm.

To spend 5 minutes, 10 minutes, just with no stimulation to give the mind an opportunity to take a breath. There's not many people doing that these days. We're just moving from one thing to the next.

Yeah.

Um, yeah, I go on silent retreat once or twice a year for 10 days and without any stimulation. I mean, you're not even allowed to look in the eyes of someone else, or when you're eating, you've got a little pod and you're eating very quietly and very slowly and And then you meditate for 14 hours a day. Like, that's extreme for most people. I love it. I can't wait to get there and sit in my little 1 by 2 meter black pod and just, ah, who is myself? Which is confronting. It's incredibly confronting. And that's the thing, people will not go into stillness and silence because they have to confront their mind.

Correct. Yeah.

And it's the most—

I was about to ask that.

Yeah, it's the most challenging thing and terrifying thing to confront your own thoughts. But you're being confronted anyway.

True, true. But how's that first experience? Because I'm imagining, like, the first time you went into a silent retreat, what did that feel like?

Oh, it was terrifying. This, I mean, this was 20, 22 years ago. And I was so excited. I was like, oh my God, I'm going to go and do this 10-day Vipassana retreat. And within about the first 3 hours, I was like, why have I done this? Oh my God, I can't leave. I got dropped off because I was so confronted by my own demons that had been, you know, ignored for the first. 30 years of my life, that it was scary. Like, it almost felt like there was, like, insanity was happening.

Wow.

But because the teachings are so thorough and pure, you know, after those first couple of days, I was dropping in more and more. I recognized that the only way through is through. Nothing was actually going to happen. It was just my mind.

Yeah.

And on about day 6, I went into complete stillness, very little thought. Became, started to realize that I'm not this body, I'm not this mind. I actually connected with that sense of feeling like I am one with everything. And then there was a craving of wanting that. And then that takes it away. So this loop happens, but the, the sense of belonging to everything and the sense of stillness and balance and harmony that I experienced, you know, I was young then. I was in my mid-20s when I did my first, um, 10-day silent retreat. It was this—

Mm-hmm.

It became a longing. Like, I know I can't have this in the world. I can have moments of it, but I've got to live and be a part of, you know, the machine. That just is what it is. But I can take respite for 10, 20 days a year and remind myself this is available to me. And it maintains my sanity to do these things.

Yeah.

And then as I come into my daily life, I have moments of stillness and silence, which, you know, helps to keep that in balance.

It's so powerful. If you were to synthesize this whole experience of doing this for 20 years, 10 days a year, that's, that's 200 days of silence. And if you could synthesize it and give it to me in that, that, Utkarsh, you can't do that right now. And this is for some of the listeners that might be listening and thinking, oh, I can't do a 10-day retreat. What should they start with right now? What's the micro step, Suria, that they can start with to feel this sense of— it felt like bliss when you were describing it.

11 minutes, go and sit in nature. 11 minutes and close your eyes down, be somewhere in nature. And if you can't get into nature, if you live in the middle of New York City or Hong Kong, Just find a quiet place and put your timer on your phone, because you're going to want to have your phone nearby. Put it on for 11 minutes, complete silence. Close your eyes down and just focus on the area between your nostrils and your upper lip and breathe.

Mm-hmm.

And if 11 minutes feels too hard, just try 1 And build up.

Build up.

Like 10 days is a huge commitment, but if you can start with 11 minutes, after 11 minutes, the, the glandular system starts to come into balance. And, you know, I also teach a lot of dynamic meditation. So for a lot of mind types, it's just, the mind is just constantly way too busy. That, um, dynamic meditation, moving, working with mantra, working with mudra. Working with, um, you know, very specific and precise meditations, so much better. So anything that's going to bring your mind into a neutral state doesn't have to be silence. Doesn't work for everybody. Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm pretty sure Instagram is not going to help. So try something else. Uh, thank you. That was, that was beautiful. Uh, If you now fast forward and go to that 80-year-old Soraya who's done this about maybe 25, 30, 35 more times. At 80 years, Soraya, if that wiser self in whatever ways we imagined it to be comes to you right now and has one piece of advice on how you should lead the rest of your years, what would that 80-year-old tell you to do?

Oh, She is not necessarily saying what she wants me to do. She's saying thank you. She's saying thank you for listening and thank you for helping so many people and thank you for being a good human. And that there's not much else left to do other than just to relax now. And, um, thank you for bringing her a lot of vitality and love and connection. Yeah. So she, it's more that rather than a piece of advice. Yeah.

Just gratitude. Gratitude. Not, not more, just gratitude. Um, I don't know why I feel— so would you be open to a 1-minute meditation right now?

Absolutely.

Okay, let me do this. Let me just recap the conversation for the audience, and then we'll get into a meditation, and then we'll end the episode with that.

Okay, beautiful.

So everyone who's listening, just be full of gratitude for, for that 8-year-old, uh, for all that you did throughout your life. If you're going to start with silence, start with 1 minute. Go to 11. You don't have to do 10 days in one go. Remember that your mind is a child. It feeds on what you give it. And so give it the right prompts, just like you do to Claude or to ChatGPT. Ask yourself, is this a useful thought or is it a useless thought? And then make progress.

Hmm.

Ask yourself, is what I'm doing right now bringing me joy? Because where you go towards joy, that's when the child inside of you finds more joy. And then that's where the success, the true definition of success starts to be— start to build. Stop this constant need for striving, of wanting more, of— because all that we're craving is connection. There's a lot of loneliness, and all we're craving is connection. To everyone who's listening, we're now going into a meditation. But if you enjoyed the episode, send it to someone who might love it too. If you're on YouTube, put something on the comments because Surya and I are wanting to hear from you. We'll put all the show notes, all the links to reach out to Surya on the show notes. So feel free to reach out to her and maybe you'll be in a meditation retreat with her in the next few weeks, months, and years. But for now, we'll get into a 1-minute meditation and then we will close the conversation. Thank you.

So I'm going to invite you to bring all of your fingertips to touch the thumb, and then place all the fingertips and the thumb together, and just relax the elbows at the side and have your fingertips sitting in front of, or just at the upper heart. And then close the eyes down, and just for 1 minute, we're going to take a breath in through the pursed lips as if you're sipping in air through a straw. And then you're simply going to empty the breath through the nostrils. And again, sipping the air through the rounded mouth like sipping through a straw. And I send the breath through the nose. And continuing this, I'm going to count for another 45 seconds. Let's do 2 more rounds. And on your next inhale, through the pursed lips, you're going to suspend and hold the breath. Just place the tongue to the roof of the mouth. Hold it here, creating a gentle pressure. And then exhale, release the hands down onto the lap or onto the knees. Just notice how you feel. When you're ready, you can open your eyes. That's a 1-minute breath. It's called a cooling and calming breath that just brings the mind into a really beautiful, calm, neutral space. 1 minute. So it supports anxiety, it supports racing thoughts, it supports negative mind. 1 minute.

1 minute. That's all it takes to change your life. Let this, let this be your 1-minute This is Utkarsh and Surya signing off.

Thank you so much.