ADHD & Men Panel | ADHD RISE 2023 | with Val Nichols Business Coach for Neurodiverse Entrepreneurs

Good morning. I'm so excited that you're here. This is going to be one incredible day. We are going to be talking about ADHD and how it shows up for our male counterparts. Yesterday we got to talk about— we got to give the stage to the ladies and talk about the ladies and how it shows up for us. And so today we're going to be giving it over to our incredible guys we have in this room, in this community, and how it shows up for them. I'd love to hear your guys' stories and your experience. I've been having a ton of fun with these different conversations. Good morning, Teresa. How are you?

I'm doing well.

Hello. Awesome. Looks like we have Andre and Adam up here. Super excited to hear about from them as well. Something we talked about Yesterday is that for men and women, there's a lot of similarities that show up with ADHD. There's a lot of similar symptoms. There's also a lot of different types of ADHD. So, you know, there's a lot of uniqueness. There's a lot of similarities. And something that I found—I was trying to look up a couple different studies. As far as how it shows up differently for ADHD for men. And a lot of the symptoms I was looking at are pretty much, you know, very similar. Difficulty concentrating, starting many hobbies or ventures but not always following through, difficulty managing time and responsibilities, shifts in mood and poor emotional regulation. Again, these are a lot of the same symptoms that women will experience as well. Chronic procrastination, difficulty facing rejection or criticism, acting out when assessing the negative consequences, often failing to follow along in conversations, taking frequent or unnecessary breaks. That was an interesting one. I was like, huh. Yeah. So a lot of times we talked about this a little bit yesterday, but I think one of the major differences for, you know, the way that ADHD manifests in men versus women is that men with ADHD tend to display more hyperactivity, where women are typically— this is not always— usually more of the inattentive type. Men with ADHD also struggle with social skills more often, which I thought was interesting, whereas a female Doesn't necessarily struggle with social skills. I thought that was a really interesting statistic that I found according to med.com. I was like, huh, that's interesting. And then men, women with ADHD tend to be more inattentive and anxious versus men, where you know it can show up later. I'm sorry, earlier in life is usually the biggest difference is that boys are more likely to get diagnosed. I know that's not everyone's experience. But I know for me, I was a late diagnosis. And I know Theresa was as well. She was late diagnosis as well. But it's typical, and I'm being very overarching when I say this, but it's more likely for a boy in school to get diagnosed because the symptoms show up a little bit more obvious than women who will kind of internalize it. So the boys might be more hyperactive, more— You know, disrupting during class. And so it's interesting to look at these statistics because I do know that, you know, for women, it is— they are more likely to get diagnosed later in life than men. And I know that's not everybody's experience. So I'd love to hear, you know, what are people's experiences? And we've got some great guys up here on stage who I'd love to hear from. So let's pass the mic over to Andre. And what's your experience like? How are you? What was your story as far as being diagnosed? What has been your experience and how do you feel it shows up for you?

Val, I'm so sorry. I'm driving right now. I'm on my way home. Can you hit me back in maybe like the next 5 to 10 minutes?

Absolutely, you got it. Adam Rick, if you're available, we'd love to hear from you.

Absolutely. So I don't know. Boy, tough questions today, Val. Like, where do I even start? It's it. So each person's experience is going to be difficult, right? Because. I guess I— maybe it's an ADHD trait. I have a difficult time even just explaining what ADHD is, like what happens to me. Yeah, I have a lot of issues when it comes to trying to maintain my frustrations with things, right? I'll hold everything in, hold everything in, hold everything in, and then it'll come out. Part of that is just the fact that You know, I'm not gonna— yeah, this is a safe place. I like all of you guys. I didn't have the best childhood growing up, so therefore I have a lot of anger issues. I'm sure my ADHD doesn't help that at all. That makes it frustrating and difficult for me also. But with that, you know, there's good things that have happened Because of it, because I do have this drive, um, and to do things different because I've recognized all these things. So there's things that I've had to suffer through, um, that you, you find good things, you get— find the, the high points about. Uh, trying to just stay focused is difficult. Sometimes. And then when other people talk to you, to— or to talk to me, it's been very difficult because I sit there and people will sit there and stop me, ask me a question. It's very difficult being a leader, right? Val knows exactly what I'm talking about right now. Being the leader and then have someone stop you, have a question that they need answered. And then go back and say, hey, this is what it is. This is the answer. Then you gotta stop, get back in your rhythm, and then all of a sudden you get a phone call. All of a sudden— I have 2 beautiful children. I love my children. It is extra difficult. It's difficult, always difficult having children and trying to get things done. It's extra difficult having kids because their brains work a lot like my brain. You know, sit there and like, Dad, check this out. This is really cool. And I'm like, no, no, not right now. Okay, fine. And I give into it. I try to be a very— a father that shows up because I think that's something I need to be. But once again, when you choose to have children and you have ADHD and you're trying to run a business, oh my goodness, it gets overwhelming. To add on to that, I have a lot of motivation to do a lot of things, and then I don't— I'm not very organized. I'm not the most organized person in the world. My wife, on the other hand, she's very organized. We should have her on here sometime. How do you deal with someone that has ADHD? That'd be interesting enough. Um, but my beautiful wife, she's great. She's amazing. And I don't know how she puts up with it sometimes between having 2 children and then me as a grown-up child and then the dog and then the animals on the farm and then me having some bizarre idea and some bizarre projects. Hey, let's do this. And then I— 2 things happen. One, all my tools are always all over the place. I have 4 different places where my tools are at this— at any given moment. And all of a sudden I need that tool. I need to grab that tool and I need to use that tool to get this job done. And then all of a sudden I'm looking for all those things. So I'm one of those people that has, I literally have over 20 tape measures in the house because I need to just be able to find. I have 20 screwdrivers hanging around the house because when I need a screwdriver, I need to find it. And then when someone else uses that tool, like to them it looks like a complete disaster. When I'm on a project, I'm working, it looks like a complete disaster. I have these neat piles. I know exactly where my tape measure is, where my screwdriver is, where my parts are. Then my beautiful wife, she's learned not to do it as much, but she'll go, I need to clean this up. And she goes and she cleans it. And organizes it. And then what happens? I can't find anything. So yes, it's, it's very frustrating. And then to sit there, okay, I can't get anything done because I'm disorganized. I can't get organized. I've tried, believe me. I'm 41 years old. I have been trying my entire life. I try to find ways to cope with it more than I do trying to change and be like everyone else. And I found ways. I get distracted. And then to finish the project, to go that last 15 feet, I typically have a hard time doing that last 15 feet. A lot— what helps me, this is always good to know what helps, is having someone next to me helping me out with that. I could have my 7-year-old son next to me and I'll get the work done. I'm sitting there alone, I got this stupid thing called a cell phone in my pocket, and I get distracted by the cell phone, or I don't like the song that's playing on my song— on my playlist, so I go and do that. And It's like I almost have to like get myself psyched up to get that 15-minute job done, 'cause that's all it's gonna take. And it takes me an hour and a half, 2 hours sometimes to do that one job that should have just taken real, real quick because I get exasperated. I get frustrated when I have to stop that project, go find the tool that I need to finish that project, And get distracted by a thousand other things and keep telling myself, okay, find the wrench, find the wrench, find the wrench. Ooh, squirrel. Ooh, this. Ooh, that. Um, I'm very— I, I— and the thing is, is people look at me like I'm, I'm, I'm dumb sometimes, right? They don't understand that I'm just— I'm very smart. I know how to do the project. I know how to get it done. It helps to have that other person around you, right? That other friend that's there, that body doubling works for me, and they don't understand how much that helps. So, but then once I get the project done, I'm like, yes, I finally got it done. And then I think about it for a second and go, okay. Well, I didn't do it fast enough. I didn't have it completely like this or completely like that, you know, and I downplay my success. I do that on a regular basis. I'm downplaying my success. Then where everyone else is like, you did a great job, Adam. Look at it. You finished the projects. I go, yeah, but I got 10 more projects to do. I don't take the glory. I don't feel the glory. when I succeed. Um, I had a really big situ— uh, events that we put up together. In most people's eyes, it was a huge success. In my eyes, I was like, well, it fell short. I can never be happy, and that's one of my curses. I'll never be happy. It sucks, but on the same token, it also— that, that pain that I feel when I never going to be good enough is also going to be something that I can go back and go, okay, that's my drive, right? Um, and you got to find that balance. You got to stop, think about— at least I have to stop and think about all the things that I have done, all the things I have accomplished, and go, okay, I did do this. That's why the fright, the, the self— what do we call that, Val, on Fridays? When we all get together and have those conversations.

Celebration Friday. Yeah, yeah, Celebration Friday. Friday wins, I guess.

Friday wins. Yeah, you know, those Friday wins, those are extremely important to me because of that, because I can stop and reflect and I can brag about myself a little bit. You need to find— and I have a couple friends that I sit there and text every Sunday all the successes I've had in my business. And some people might look at that as being cocky, but I've explained to my friends that I go, I need someone to say I did this this week and I did awesome. And that's something that really helps me. Is by being able to say, I won this. It's not— it's to sit there in my own brain and go, you're still doing okay, and stay motivated with that. You're still doing good. You're still going forward. Otherwise, I won't stop for that. I won't stop to look at what other people are— what I've done. I'm always looking at what other people do. So that's a lot of the negatives. On the upside, let's look at some of the upsides real quick here. I can see things that are happening before they happen, especially with my dyslexia. I have dyslexia on top of the ADHD, and we're not— I'm not sure which one's better or which one's high, bigger, or better or not. I don't know. But with my dyslexia, I sit there and I focus on things, or I won't focus on certain things, but I'll be able to see things that people won't see. I'm like, yeah, see that guy over there? He's— so I've also taught a self-defense class. I don't know if I've ever told anyone that in this room. I also teach self-defense. I've been in self-defense. Since I was 16 years old, and I now, now teach it. I get to teach people how to protect themselves. And part of my talent is I can see things unrolling before— when they just walk in the door, I'm like, something's wrong with that guy, within 3 seconds. And I'm almost never wrong. with those situations. Why? Because I can see a lot of the things, how they act, how they move. Great. I'm really great at telling, seeing trends. Okay, this is a trend. I don't have it on paper, but I can see the trend. Then I have a good friend of mine who goes, for instance, I see a trend that people on vacation— so I sell pasture-raised meats, when I'm at market, I see that people on vacation are more likely to buy my product than the people that are there every week. Because there's only one chance that they're going to be able to buy my product. Person that's in the location locally, they're going to have it, have a chance next week, right? Or the week after that. So these people that are there just for this one week, they're more likely to buy my product. So then I started going to places where I'd find vacationers, and I found success in that, in finding a product that they can sell or they can take home or is delivered to them, and that helps them out. So that's with ADHD and dyslexia. Like, that is some great stuff. I have motivation to do things. I understand And although I've done a lot of things, I'm probably not a master at any one thing. I can pull like little bits and pieces out of things. I literally stop. People look at me weird. Like, my friends know. They'll ask me a question, I'll stop, close my eyes, and it's like I'm looking inside my own brain. And I come up with the answer. Like, and they're amazed at what I do because I love history, I love science, I love all those things of theology. So because I have all these different interests, that really helps, right? I have no clue if it's better for me to be— if it's harder or easier for a woman to have ADHD. That's not my place. All my place is in my own head. So, but yeah, those are kind of— that's the gist, I guess, for right now at least, of how my brain works. We're not all— I'm all over the place all the time. That's all of us, right? But that is also our superpower. As much as it annoys everyone else, that's our superpower. So, Yeah, I appreciate you guys letting me rant about that. And hopefully you guys get something great out of that too, or at least feel better like you're not alone. I think that's what this is all about, right?

Whoo! Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for opening up and sharing your heart because so much of what you said, I'm like, me too, me too, me too. And, you know, like even just that intuitive, that like ESP feeling. I was just talking to one of my mentors about that the other day. She was an emergency medical doctor for 20 years in the ER in Southern California, and she was talking about how she would just know. Like, she'd walk into a patient's room and she would just like know these things about them. And I'm like, that happens to me all the time. I can just see someone and I just like know. And so much of what you talked about, like the frustration that, you know, and I have people I run stuff by too. I was just on the phone. Yesterday with 2 different people over a situation because I know my reaction sometimes because of RSD, because of rejection sensitivity. You know, I know I can tend to be like butthurt or, you know, I can overreact to things. And so I had to run it by like this, this situation, like, hey, look, I don't want to be in resentment. I don't want to get angry, angry at this, these people. You know, this organization I'm a part of, I don't want to get angry. So I need to just like check myself. And can you tell me like what's going on? Like, is my thought process making sense? Or is this just my brain like making things up? And so a lot of what you talked about is, gosh, I related so much with. And I think that, you know, that both the downsides and the upsides are such a beautiful thing for sure. Go ahead, Andre. I wasn't sure if you were un-miking. Oh, I thought you were gonna mic. But yeah, thank you so much, Adam. So sounds like you might be in the Matrix, but so much of what you said I definitely relate with, and that even that frustration You know, showing up as the leader sometimes. I always tend to be a leader, but then it's also very frustrating to be a leader sometimes, you know, so that it's just like this conflicting experience in our mind all the time. It's crazy. But I get it. I totally get it. And so much of what you said, I completely— I feel seen. I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I definitely feel seen. I don't know if— do you have anything to share with— about that, Teresa?

I'm just listening. I— all the only experience I have with a male with ADHD is my son, and it was very visible from kindergarten, first grade. You know, we don't hide under the desk to keep from doing our work, you know. And then he was a reader in kindergarten, and his teacher was concerned that if he was going to be able to stay in the reading group because he was interrupting and talking about, you know, he wanted to play monster during recess. So we were having some problems. And then, but his grades were so great that, you know, we didn't really start seeing some issues until junior high— well, 4th grade, junior high. And then, and then it just became a hot mess because the organization, you know, when you're having to switch classes and You have more books and homework to keep track of, well, then that's when it really starts showing up. And so thankfully, we were able to get him in a smaller classroom at a different school, and then on to high school he went. But then it showed up again really big time in college. So I can empathize with him, and I'm so grateful to him for saying, you know, Mom, I'm thinking maybe you've got this too. And so Welcome to my journey here in Clubhouse where I can listen to others and feel and be seen and be heard and thinking, you know, maybe it's time to search that diagnosis. So everything makes sense today. Thank you.

Absolutely. Thank you, Theresa. Yeah. And it's interesting when something that Adam said too that I thought was just so powerful is that whole idea of like, I've downplayed my success my whole life, right? It's like we know we are capable of so many incredible things. I heard Andre say this just the other day. He said, you know, I know I am capable of so many incredible things. I know, like, in my heart that I was made to do something big. And then this also, this edge of like almost feeling— I'm not sure if it's like the motivation of feeling like I don't deserve it or the imposter syndrome or masking, but then downplaying.

Yeah.

I still downplay my business. Somebody pointed that out the other day. They're like, you're so vague about it sometimes that I really want to know more about what you do. I'm like, oh, you know, it's just not a— it's not a big deal. It's just this little, you know, I have this business. And it's like I downplay that sometimes. So to hear someone else say that out loud, it's one of those things that almost— I don't know if you guys ever feel this, and I don't mean this in like a negative way. But sometimes I just don't freaking understand myself or my brain and why I do the things I do. Like, it's— I just don't understand it. And so to hear other people verbalize it and be like, oh, it's almost like this sigh of relief that, oh, okay, I'm not that different. This is normal for neurodiversity. This is normal for us. And it's so nice, you know, I mean, I'm— I get so much out of this. Just, I hope that you guys do too. But it's like just knowing that we are the same, you know, we talked about that yesterday. Like, we are so much the same. If you scratch the surface of us, male, female, Black, white, religion, whatever, you know, whatever we are, you scratch the surface, we are so much the same. We are bonded together by this commonality. of these beautiful Ferrari brains. And that is a beautiful experience. All right. I don't know if Andre, are you available?

Yeah, I'm good now. Can everybody hear me?

Here you are. Yep, we can hear you.

Awesome. Yeah, Val, I'm glad to be here. Glad I made it. I was rushing. I had a lot of errands this morning, and, uh, yeah, I'm back home. Um, talking about ADHD and men, um, I want to look it up. I'm sure that somebody way smarter than me has researched it already, but, um, I wonder about how societal issues play a part in How we develop as men and women, why women are diagnosed at a smaller frequency than men. You know, my hypothesis would be, you know, with ADHD, what do we— what are the things that we accomplish? The things that are urgent to us, the things that are important. And my hypothesis would be that society The things that society tells us are important as men or as women is what we end up doing, you know. And I can say for myself, that was one of the biggest things that led to me getting diagnosed, seeking help, seeking like-minded individuals. Um, I'm a man and I have a family that relies on me, and I have business and I have people that rely on me, and I just got tired of letting them down. You know, it's one thing when I'm failing in my own life or when I'm falling short in my own life. Um, I don't know if any of you guys can relate with this dynamic. But, um, I highly suspect that my mother has ADHD also, you know, and she would be more so in denial. Um, she went and got a preliminary, uh, diagnosis, just wanted to speak to somebody. She came back and told me that it was negative. And at first I took it at face value, but then I was like, The kind of questions they ask you, there's no way possible you answered. When they ask you, do you find yourself late on a frequent basis? Do you find yourself missing deadlines? There's no way possible that you answered those questions, you know, in a positive, affirming way. So, I mean, anyone who knows my mom, My wife, even, you know. And it's not to say that she's a bad person, but I just knew from a very young age that I couldn't count on her. You know, most kids cry when they're the last one to get picked up. I was okay. Yeah, my mom is late again. You know, okay. You know, no big deal. When she gets there, my mom is the most loving person, would literally, literally Give you the shirt off her back, you know. But those things that are required of us as adults, you know, she still to this day struggles with them. And I have to come to terms with, you know, maybe she might never, you know. But that definitely affected me growing up. And without— I just found out I had ADHD about 4 or 5 years ago. But even without knowing that, I knew growing up I had to be solid in some areas, you know. So those things became the urgent, the urgent thing in my life. School kind of fell by the wayside once I went to high school. I wasn't— it was hard for me to relate to my peers, you know, because I knew that my mom needed me to be that person in the house. You know, my sisters needed me to be that person in the house, you know, at that age. So it was hard for me to relate with my peers when they're talking about prom and they're talking about, you know, high school stuff. You know, I still was late all the time. I still, you know, had my regular ADHD flaws, but it was just certain things like I just knew I had to show up in, you know, that I was able to cover up because of that sense of urgency that was present in my life. Getting a little bit older, and I always wanted to be a musician. And I got my first serious, consistent job playing music, you know, with a serious band. I mean, and they got gigs throughout the calendar, and I'm doing it, you know? Yeah, Mom, I made it, kinda, you know? But even then, It's like, uh, I'm surrounded by professionals, you know. And when I say professional, you know, a lot of times you see a musician and, um, people think like kind of slacker or, you know, whatever the case might be. But nah, just like any other job, you know, probably even more so than any other job. Yeah, you have to be good on your in your instrument or your craft or whatever you do. But there's a lot of intangibles, you know. Can you show up on time? Can you have your music ready? Do you know this? Did you rehearse the songs at home? You know, if I— if there's a deadline when this song— if you had to record it at home and there's a deadline for you to send it in, can you meet that deadline? All these things Yeah. Really started cropping back up into my life. And, you know, as Val touched on that I was speaking on yesterday, once again, I know my potential. But for some reason, I'm not reaching it. You know, and it's frustrating. It's depressing. It's whatever the opposite of self-affirming is. You know, it doesn't matter how much confidence you have. Those thoughts start creeping in. Maybe I'm not so great. Maybe I'm maybe I'm not all that I'm building myself up to be this whole time. You know, maybe that person over there is that much better than me. You know, I. I remember one specific instance, and we laugh about it now, but we were going to— I live in Atlanta and we had a gig in Florida the next day, and the text message came, we're leaving at 3, right? And I read that and I just went with it. I didn't— I don't know how It didn't dawn on me throughout that entire week that, of course, we're leaving at 3 AM. You know, Florida is 8+ hours away. You know, so they call me up at 3 in the morning. Dre, where you at? And I'm rubbing the sleep out of my eyes, and I'm almost like mad right back at them. Like, what are you talking about where I'm at? I'm in bed. Bro, we're in the van, we're leaving, we're half— we're halfway out of Georgia right now. You need to get in your car and meet us, you know? And, um, yeah, I— out of sight, out of mind. I saw that 3 and I just went with it for the entire week that somehow it didn't have to make sense, but somehow we're leaving at 3 PM to get to a show to play for somebody's wedding. In Florida. You know, you say it out loud and it sounds ludicrous. It sounds ridiculous, you know. But, um, that's really the hole that I was in. You know, I trained myself basically to show up for everyone else around me in my immediate life except myself in the places that would make Andre's life better, in the places that would improve my life. I didn't know how to show my best self, you know? I'm going to end on a positive note. These last 4 or 5 years that I've been on this journey have been— I call it a revenge tour for me. You know, every assumption that some people that knew me on the peripherals had about me, that I might be unreliable, you know, I've just— or that I've made about myself or whatever the case might be, I've just been on a mission to attack that. As aggressively as possible. You know, you can't go— I would say that you can't come into Atlanta and speak within the musician circuit and say, oh yeah, I know Andre. Yeah, he's, he's late. I don't know about him. Because it'll immediately be somebody that refutes that. You know, what are you talking about? You know, that's probably one of the most— Punctual guys that I know. You know, I've been on a real revenge tour just rehabilitating my image, rehabilitating my— the way that I see myself. You know, I talk about it just about every time I come in here, but it's really my motto, just unapologetically ADHD, like just not saying sorry for being who I am, you know? Yeah, I'm, I'm forgetful. Yeah, I can be late at times, but who's never late? Who never forgets? I'm just as normal as anybody else. And when I do the things that I know that I'm supposed to do, I can be Just as good or better than anybody else. So it's not me putting myself above anybody, but it's not me putting myself below anyone else either. Not anymore. You know, I am learning to look at the world, look at other people, you know, and stop, stop bowing my head. You know, stop feeling like I'm less than, or, you know, I need to measure up to anybody's expectations. No, I already do. I measure up to my own expectations, and I know the type of— the caliber of person that I'm bringing to the table. I know the value that I'm bringing to someone that wants to be my friend, so I demand that same caliber reciprocated back to me, you know. And, um, it's only been— I'm 37, you know, it's only been 5 years, but I've watched my relationships, my professional life, just everything slowly but surely. Just my credit, you know, that's a big one. Uh, but everything around me just slowly morphed and steadily become who I always saw myself as this whole time. I just didn't have the proof to show it. So, um, thank you for the space. Thank you for listening, everybody, and I'm out.

Thank you so much, Andre. That was incredible. And so much of what you said, I relate with as well. And, you know, that idea of societal pressures, right? And I think about this, you know, as being a woman, I'm really aware that, you know, men typically have societal pressures that are different for women, right? Like that pressure of Having a family and people relying on you. And when you said, you know, I, I can't remember exactly the context, but you said that, you know, I don't— I'm sick of people just feeling disappointed in me or me letting people down. And man, I have felt that all the time. And it's interesting how there can be this overarching thing. We give it— we give meaning that, oh, I'm letting people down. And like you said, you know, everybody's late sometimes. Nobody's perfect all the time. And we have so many incredible gifts and abilities and we get to love every single piece of us, right? Like I get— I love the quirky side of me. I love the part of me that forgets words and makes mistakes and I can laugh about that. And I hear so much of that in you. And I'm so glad that we are right here at this conversation at this time because we have someone who is incredibly skilled at, you know, talking about these things, especially for men. You know, what are the societal pressures? How do men come together and really unite in ADHD? And so I'd love for my— our friend Dave O'Dwyer to share. He is the Spiritual Gent and he helps— he has a huge community of, of men who are ADHD, and I'm sure that he has a ton of great information to share with us. So welcome to the stage, Dave. How are you?

Ah, thank you so much, Val, for that introduction. That was absolutely amazing. I may have to clip that. an introduction because that was fantastic. And, you got me blushing. Yeah, no. So, thank you for this opportunity. Hi, everyone. My name is David Dwyer. Like she said, I go by the social media handle, The Spiritual Gentleman. I'm also one of the admins for a group called Men's ADHD Support Group. It started out as a Facebook group 4 years ago. By this guy Mark. And last year we became a non-for-profit organization. Sorry for the background noise. I am on the bus going to a men's ADHD men's walk and talk by ADHD Ireland. So talking about men with ADHD is a very big passion of mine, and helping men with ADHD is something that I've been really passionate about, and I really enjoyed Andre, uh, what he was talking about too, totally related to a lot what he was talking about. Um, and what you're saying there too, Val, about, um, the kind of the role that the, the, the, the, the role that men play in society or the role that we, that we feel like we have to kind of play. Um, one of the things I noticed in our men's group a lot, so men in particular are, are more likely to be diagnosed with ADHD, but are less likely to support each other or have supports for themselves or give them that support because of this idea that men are supposed to hold it all in. We're not supposed to burden other people, right? Like Andre talked about this, right? We can't be a burden on someone else. We can't unload. Like, and one of the big things, especially for and mental illness, because we don't go for the treatment as often. One of the things that I Or, uh, family members or anything else. Um, and it's recognizing that to have a space that we can get it all out, especially when it comes to our emotions, because I'm like, as men, we're told not to have, like, like our emotions are invalid. And as ADHD men, we're— we have, uh, emotional dysregulation. We have heightened emotions, right? This allows to what, um, Andrew was talking about being able to read people a lot easier because we have that emotional connection faster. We're able to read people, but we're not taught as boys and men how to express it or how to handle our emotions. Emotions are like children. You can't let them drive the car, nor can you stuff them in the trunk. They belong in the back seat. And it's knowing how to handle your emotions in a proper way Like, uh, living particularly, I live in Dublin, Ireland, and I've been here now about 8 years. And, you know, like, it's kind of like men only show their emotions when they're watching the football match, right? And that's the one time they're allowed to cry or at their funeral. And it's really heartbreaking because we see this a lot in the group of, um, uh, the men's group is that so many, so many men struggle with mental health. That comes along with the ADHD, the rejection, rejection sensitivity dysphoria, especially going out to dating. A lot of my clients that I work with are ADHD guys, but also even just sensitive guys trying to understanding the dating and relationship side of things, of how to handle their RSD, how to be able to be a man. So I think one thing that men lack in society, and not just for ADHD, but men in Just for men in general, we don't have rites of passage anymore. We don't have that thing of like, all right, you've cleared that, that bar to say, all right, you've now become boy into man. And that's like a personal journey, but it's a journey that used to happen amongst other men. Um, so I always encourage men to do retreat, like men's retreats together and things along those lines to have those community and those bonding moments. Because I define man like this. Man, I break it down into the M stands for maturity, right? A man is mature. He learns, he knows and understands his responsibilities and his kind of place. A man is— the A is assertive, not aggressive, but assertive, recognizing his boundaries and knowing how to set it and to place it within his boundaries and knowing not to be overly aggressive and try to push on to anyone else, but like, no, these are my boundaries. I accept who you are. Because so many ADHD men fall into the— like myself, fall in the people-pleasing category. I let everyone break my boundaries constantly just so I could feel liked or loved or cared about. Um, and knowing how to be assertive of like, no, this is who I am, this is where I'm at, I'm gonna get to the no faster and You're going to either accept or reject, and that's on you knowing to handle my side of the street. And then the last N for In Man is nurturing. Knowing how to— this is where so many men struggle with, is knowing how to handle their emotions and that we're really loving beings. Like, I had a great father and I have a great brother who are nurturing parents and know how to give care. And it's not necessarily usually through our words, but through our actions, through the things that we do. We're problem solvers. We want to solve problems. We want to be action-oriented of handling and getting things done to help the people around us, to relieve the burden on others, and to have that ability to endure the burden. But it's given this, like, I do a lot of study around stoicism, and when we think of Stoic, lowercase s. We think of the John Wayne holds everything in. But the more I study about the philosophy of Stoicism, they have, um, uh, uh, one of the kind of tenets is simpatica. Uh, like you recognize that you're a part of everything else. And I thought Andre really described humility in a beautiful way there. You're neither greater than nor less than, than anyone else. Um, in a, uh, a grapevine, I heard something very similar to it of like, Humility is the recognition of your place in the universe, no greater than or less than anyone else. And we do so much in society and men, we judge ourselves on other people's accomplishments and where other people have gotten. And that's a measuring stick that we'll constantly fail at because we don't know exactly what they went through to get that. The thing that I really teach a lot of my clients, Is to learn how to measure yourself. It's you versus you in the race of life. It's not you versus LeBron James or your neighbor across the street or your coworker or your partner or X, Y, and Z, or the social influencer that you want to be like, or the business entrepreneur that's making more money. No, it's like, all right, what have I done today? Right? And keeping it within what you can control. And recognizing that in particular of like, all right, like, did I accomplish the things for me today? You know, so many of us struggle with cleaning our rooms. But, you know, like, hey, I got like— but we won't give ourselves credit for the fact that we did a corner of it, right? Oh no, everything else is a mess. We'll look at the negative and not look at the gratitude of like, look, I got this one thing done. Sometimes It's like, because I struggle with the entrepreneurial stuff of being kind of organized and I can get really distracted. And like, for me, my win of the day, right? I write down my wins at the end of the day. And one of my main wins is that if I did my daily Stoic video for my YouTube channel, if I just did that for today, that's my win. If nothing else went right, if I did nothing but crawl back into bed, I'm happy. Or sometimes it's as small as like, look, I just brushed my teeth today, or I didn't take a sip of alcohol today. I set the bar kind of low, but I use that as a momentum to move me forward. And that's just for me in particular. And it's one of the things that is, I know, helped not just my clients, but I've seen in our men's group, especially when they're dealing with a lot of Relationship and having relationship issues, a lot of divorce. We see a lot of people going through divorces there and having to restart their life. And they're like, oh, well, I'm not where I used to be at. Like, yeah, but where are you at now? And how have you done just a little bit today to move forward? And it's about taking that one step at a time. The journey of life doesn't happen in years or decades. It happens one moment at a time, one day at a time, one step at a time. We live in a society where life wants to say, hey, you have to get instant gratification. You need to be there now. You have to have the 10,000 followers or be 6-foot, 6 figures and 6 inches, right? Like this. I— but it's like, that's not, that's not a reasonable thing to go for. It's recognizing what's within your capabilities. And as ADHDers, we have a unique set of abilities and customizing our lives to reach what we want to reach. We don't have to follow the mold. We're trailblazers. And being a trailblazer can be lonely. So having a support group and having a network. Um, they're like— I've been watching a few videos about the, the, uh, an epidemic of male loneliness. Um, as much as society, or as much as technology has brought us together, it kind of isolates us. And men struggle with making friends, um, especially as you get older, when you get out of the school age and you become like, uh, into the adult world. If you don't have good coworkers, it's hard to become make friends. But it's only through building those friendships and those tight bonds, be it that you talk to them every day or every 6 months, but having those bonds build a stronger you, which builds a stronger society. So it's that, that's kind of where I feel really passionate about helping men because I think men haven't necessarily been left to the wayside, but we're so used to being silent and allowing, um, kind of being a silent minor— uh, majority of just kind of letting things happen to us. Like, oh, I don't wanna bring it up. I don't wanna, I don't wanna burden anyone else. Yet I've realized with even with my own partner, like I've been kind of struggling the last few weeks to try to find some more clients to find steady work. And, you know, I've been not wanting to open up to her. But I know every time that I do, it isn't looked upon as that I'm weak, right? Because as men, especially as ADHD men, we don't want to be seen as we're weak or less than, than anyone else. And if we open up and become vulnerable and say what's really going on, oh, especially to other men, they think they're going to see us as weak. Yet in my personal experience, every time I've gotten to be vulnerable actually takes more courage. It actually shows a strength that you're doing something that most men in particular struggle with doing. And, you know, it's having that, and that's within that action that shows the strength. And it hasn't really come back to hurt me. Like sometimes, you know, we've had, I've had other partners who try to like use that vulnerability against But because I build a strong spiritual foundation and value sets. This is where I get a lot from Stoicism and from the men's group of building that strong foundation within myself first. Because I can't fill from an empty cup. So, if I don't fill and work on me and what it means for me to be a man, see what it means to be a spiritual man, to be a spiritual gentleman, so to speak. Little plug there for myself. But it's recognizing that spiritual side of my values, of who I am, and what it means to grow within my belief structure, my morals and values, so that I have the maturity, the assertiveness, and the nurturing to be a man in society today. Yeah, I think I've probably ranted on long enough there. Thank you so much, Val, for this opportunity to allow me to speak. with your community. I really appreciate all the hard work that you do to give us an opportunity to bring light to these issues and for us to rise. And with that, I will land the plane.

Dave, thank you so much. That was incredible. And so much of what you said, I'm like, man, I feel it. I feel that what you're talking about, like, it— you really have Um, a great knowledge on, on your client base, you know, on men and, and the, the unique challenges that you guys do experience and the loneliness. That's something I have a couple male clients that they've opened up to me and they're like, I don't have friends and I'm lonely. I don't know what to do with myself. And so sometimes that shows up as, you know, creating some chaos in their lives or, you know, making impulsive decisions. And it's like, man, it is such a I don't know, there's just a lot of unique things that I know men go through that, you know, women, um, do as well, but men have a certain societal pressure on them or expectation. And that's just kind of like what the world has done, what we've done in society. Dave, thanks. Andre, thanks. Teresa for being here. Thank you for everyone who listened in on this conversation. This is ADHD Rise, where I rise, you rise, we rise together. So many great things today. Oh my goodness, you guys, thank you for showing up and being vulnerable. And for our male counterparts who shared their hearts, I love it, you guys. I have so much admiration and respect and love for you. So incredible. Thank you guys so much. And, um, with that, we're gonna wrap up. But I'm so excited that you guys joined us here today. Thank you, thank you, thank you with all of my heart. I I see you. I love you. When I rise, you rise. We rise together.