ADHD & MENTAL HEATH DIAGNOSIS | SUSAN BLUMBERG | ADHD RISE | Summer Christiansen & Val Nichols

and call your child ADHD or autistic or learning disabled, or your child could just think they're stupid, lazy, and unmotivated. Which label would you like to have for your child? They're going to be labeled either way, and I think it's really important that we get the correct label for our child because having labels open doors to services. It opens You can get accommodations. You can get special education. You can get supports. You can get insurance companies to pay for OT, PT, tutors. You can do the things you need to do. But the most important thing is that your child learns that they're not stupid, lazy, or unmotivated. Instead, they understand that they need help. That they have a neurodevelopmental disorder. There's a reason why your brain feels the way it feels. As an adult, many of you have heard me talk about ADHD in adults, women especially, who become diagnosed as an adult after their child becomes diagnosed, perhaps, where you've been feeling— and Val and Summer, here's where I start answering some of your questions, you start to feel depressed or anxious because you can't cope with the demands of a household, perhaps multiple children with special needs, and the demands of a job, and you begin to feel as an adult stupid, lazy, unmotivated, incompetent, and incapable when in fact you have ADHD, depression, anxiety. Anxiety, bipolar disorder, or some other mental health diagnosis. So what I really wanna say here is that the label that we attach to these things is so meaningful because then we can get the appropriate supports, the appropriate accommodations, and the appropriate treatments. Does this make sense, Val and Summer? Am I on the right track? Am I answering the correct questions? Just give me a little feedback.

Yeah, yeah, I think that that's exactly like, that's exactly what I think we need to bring to our minds. Labels, especially if I may go there, we had a Clubhouse on in this club a while ago on labels. And you know what, like, I'm okay with labels. And I'm so glad you said that, Susan, because I was really, really tired of hearing people talk about how negative Or really how they didn't want their child to get accommodations at school because they didn't want their child to be labeled. And I said, well, you have to, you know, look at the good and the good, or the, you know, the positive and the negative behind that. Because, you know, from a positive standpoint, they can get those accommodations, and from a negative standpoint, they can just be called names and made fun of if they stick out. You know, and if they're not having what they need, so they're acting out. So I love that. I think that that's beautifully said because I feel the exact same way. And then yeah, totally about, you know, having having a mental health disorder. I don't know. What are we supposed to call it? Somebody told me we're not supposed to say disorder. So then every time I go to say it, I like Totally.

Of course you should say disorder. That is what it's called.

BPD. I'm so offended, Summer. I'm offended by everyone being offended.

Yeah.

So I'm going to pick it up again, if I may.

Yes.

And then answer, answer Summer's question. How do we tell the difference between depression and anxiety? So I want to start with a different question and I'm going to ask Summer.

Wait, wait, one more.

So it wasn't the difference.

Oh yeah, go ahead, Summer.

It was the difference between anxiety and ADHD, just differentiating.

Okay.

Differentiating like the symptoms, because although they can be the same, for me it was motivation versus not feeling focused. And once I differentiated, that was very helpful. So that's what my question was. If there, you know, how do we differentiate between the mental health and the ADHD? Is that helpful? Yeah.

Yes, yes. Well, I'm actually going to start with depression versus anxiety, and then I'm going to go on because I think this is really, really important. So I want to start with actually anxiety versus fear. Val and Summer, do you know the difference between anxiety and fear?

Yeah, it has to do with the, the, um, Flight and freeze, right? Like, you have these normal ways of reacting with fear. You know, if you are almost hit by a car, you jump out of the way. Like, that's normal fear. And to be like upset after, that's normal. But if it's something like that you can't let go of, and it's consistent, and maybe like the ruminating thoughts, then that would be more anxiety.

Hmm.

That's close.

That's close. Val, do you have a different answer?

Gosh, I will take a stab in the dark at it. I think, I don't know if there's, for me, in the experience of fear and anxiety, I'm worried about something that is not real usually.

There you go.

And it's more, fear is maybe more of like a tangible thing. Like I'm afraid of death or I'm afraid of, you know, going bankrupt. And then anxiety is more of like an internal thing. Perhaps that's my intent.

You're very close. So fear is real. There's a snake that wants to bite me. There's a spider. I'm about to go bankrupt. I can't pay the mortgage this month. Fears are real. Anxieties are intangible. They're often anticipatory. I can't study for my math test because I'm worried I can't do it. You know, I'm worried about Failing in my business. I'm worried that I'm not good enough. I know we all know that perfectionistic aspect of it. So anxieties are intangible and fears are tangible. Doesn't mean that they're not any less upsetting, but that's the difference between anxiety and fear. Now, the difference between anxiety and depression is that depression is a state of feeling worthless, hopeless, and helpless. Whereas anxiety is that state of worrying about the future, anticipation. Now, you can have both, of course, many of us do, but you can have depression or anxiety without having the other one. Okay, so have I clarified those?

I think you said it way better. I was thinking that in my head.

Okay, so now the difference— the difference between anxiety and ADHD is that ADHD— you can have ADHD without depression or anxiety because ADHD are the issues of planning, organization, Difficulty listening to and following instructions, focus, forgetfulness, trouble initiating or completing tasks. And those— while there's some overlap with anxiety, in anxiety you also have that worry or anticipation of the future, irritability.

Mm-hmm.

Somatic symptoms such as headaches, stomachaches, insomnia, and fear of trying new things, which are not diagnostic symptoms of ADHD. Is that clear?

Yeah. Yes, ma'am.

Okay, good. So now the issue is, is because, as I said, 50% of people, kids or adults with ADHD, Also could have a mental health diagnosis. 50% of people with autism also have an ADHD diagnosis. Do you know what a Venn diagram is where you have all those circles and you look at the little areas of overlap?

Right.

So we have depression, anxiety, autism, ADHD, and then we have that little circle in the middle where the person has everything. That's hard.

I'm gonna raise my hand, Susan.

Okay, go ahead.

I'm gonna circle in the middle.

Okay, so that's a really hard place to be, and that's what I really want to talk about today, because that's the place in the middle where you have multiple— you know, we call it alphabet soup. My daughter falls almost in that area as well, you know, with alphabet And I think the really important thing to know about alphabet soup is that you're still the same person you were. Meredith, I just want to remind you to mute yourself. Thank you so much for being here with us. Um, is that, that can be a very functional person. Just because you have these multiple labels doesn't mean that you're not capable of a great deal. What it means is, is that you have to manage a great deal, and we know a lot about how to manage ADHD with mental health diagnoses. There are really good research, and I've talked about this in previous rooms. Some of you have heard me talk about this before, that says a multimodal approach with both medication and Cognitive behavioral therapy, executive functioning therapy, or coaching is very effective at treating that person in the middle, is very effective at helping people be successful because we can manage depression and anxiety with medication. We can manage ADHD, but that doesn't teach you skills. And the way some of you have heard me say it is pills don't teach skills. What pills do is manage the biological components that all of these disorders have. That's the overlap. They all have biological components. Medications are excellent at handling those biological components. It takes time, it takes patience, it takes an experienced pediatric psychiatrist. But once you have that under control and as you're working on that, Working with an experienced coach or cognitive behavioral therapist can then teach you the skills, the executive functioning skills, the behavioral skills to manage your emotional, your emotions. We call it, I've run rooms before on managing big emotions. Those skills can be taught once your biological component is under control. And so I want to give you all this very positive message that having ADHD and a mental health diagnosis is manageable, is doable, and you can be very, very successful. Summer and Val, have I answered the questions that you've raised?

Yes, totally there with you. Agreed that, um, I love that you talked about labels too. This is a conversation that I was negotiating earlier with myself. And like, I don't think that— I don't know, like, I'm a big believer in that I am statement is like the most powerful statement ever. But it's like, what is the meaning behind that? If I say I am ADHD, and I have shame around that, or I feel like guilty or ick, then that's one thing. But me, you know, I was just messaging someone earlier in the room saying that, you know, I am so glad I'm ADHD. Like, I am grateful because look, look where we're at right now in this room full of incredible people. I would have never had this circle of people, people on here that I'm closer to than most of my friends in real life, and I would have never had this opportunity to grow. So like, I'm proud that I am ADHD. And so I love that. And everything you talked about is just is beautiful because, you know, in the medical system, unfortunately, some— to circle back to what you were talking about before, you know, like, yeah, they need that ICD-9 code in order to, you know, have that diagnosis so that now you can start getting the solutions and advocate for your child or advocate for yourself. So, um, you know, whether— I think that also comes— and I'm not a parent, so it's hard for me to say that, but, you know, like, in That realm, you know, like, if we're telling ourselves we're something, or if we're telling our children we're something, or telling anyone they're something, it's like, what is the motive? And what is the feeling behind that? Right? Because you could call me fat. And I'd be like, I'm not fat. Okay, that doesn't hurt me. But if someone who was overweight got called fat, that could devastate them. Right? Like, what is the meaning or the thought, the belief behind that statement? And Val, and I'm complete.

Thank you, Val. I think that really, really makes sense to me. I want to address that feeling of shame. You know, that's why I started out with the meme. You know, what label do we want to put on ourselves? Are we ugly and fat, or are we proud of who we are and just the bodies we have? Are we unmotivated and lazy and stupid, or do we have ADHD and anxiety that we need to learn to manage? I think it's a hugely positive message, but the most important thing, and I haven't used this word yet, is I am a firm believer in telling a child about their diagnoses as early as possible, because how do we teach our children, one, to be proud, two, to be good self-advocates unless we explain to them why they are having the issues they have. And I do have parents, I've had high school parents come up to me and say, when I was working at Denver South High School, one of our big high schools here in Colorado, I don't want my child to know their labels, but I want them to get services. Well, it doesn't work like that. That's not how it works. They have to have labels to open doors to money and services. That's how it works. I've had college disability counselors tell me stories of parents coming and saying, my child has Asperger's and here's their documentation. I want them to get disability services in college, but I don't want you to tell them they have autism. Your child is over 18. They're an adult. They don't know that they have autism yet. It boggles the mind. How do we teach people to advocate for themselves if parents are trying to protect them, and I say that word in quotes, from their reality? We have to teach children to stand up for themselves, to advocate for their own needs, and we do that by being truthful and honest at a developmentally appropriate age. Appropriate level, and one of the speakers who is new to here on Clubhouse because Meredith, I see your party hat. Let's welcome Meredith, everybody. Welcome, Meredith. So we're we're popping our microphones.

Where'd you go, Susan?

You muted, girl.

I'm muted. Sorry, I was clapping for you, Meredith. We'll get to you in just a few minutes, but Val and Summer, is it all right if we ask some of these lovely people to share their stories and ask their questions?

Absolutely.

Yeah, Felicia.

Okay, Meredith, go back on mute and we'll get to you in just a minute, but I wanted to welcome you because I know you're a powerful self-advocate.

Yay, thank you so much, Susan. Love hearing you again, and Val and Summer, thank you again so much for holding this space.

space.

My kind of question statement story, I guess I should say, is you're talking about ADHD, anxiety, etc., and labeling. So I also want to mention, and Susan, you can correct me or, or expand on this, the difference between anxiety and anxiety disorder. For example, I am ADHD, and I have anxiety disorder, as does my daughter, anxiety disorder, or my son has anxiety. Where he gets nervous, he gets— he doesn't like to be late. You can tell he just, you know, when things— when he's anxious about things or whatever, as opposed to anxiety disorder, where we can literally be debilitated by something, by, you know, something that can set us off. Usually it's— sometimes we don't even know what it is.

And—

I had 20 minutes, but for my daughter and I, it's usually from 1 day to a week of debilitation. And it's, it's a constant feel of fight and flight. Like I think Susan mentioned, stomachache, no appetite. It is a— it is physical feelings due to what the chemicals in our brain are, are doing to our bodies. And it comes out as physical, although logically, we know that we may not die, or we logically know that we are in a safe place. But our brain is telling us to get the F out of wherever we are, which could be in a safe— which could be as safe as in my own home. And the feeling is literally debilitating. So I just— and it's interesting because I would say I am ADHD, but I would not say I am anxiety. Um, so I think that I'd love to hear, you know, but I would say, you know, I have ADHD or I am ADHD. I see those interchangeably, um, without— but I also, as I mentioned in our, in our chat on our, in the back, you know, channel is sometimes I feel like I'm not, you know, because of my lack sometimes of education or knowledge or, or speaking, you know, I've, I listened to you guys and I was like, God, I can't talk that well, but it's all in my head and I know what you're saying. So with that being said, this is Felissa, and I just wanted— I would love to hear your feedback on that, Susan, or anyone else. And this is Felissa, and I'm never done speaking, but I am muted.

Oh, I like that sign-off. I'm gonna steal it, Felissa. This is Susan. It's wonderful. You know, it's so interesting because we talk a lot about person-first language versus identity-first Just not familiar with that. You know, of course, when I was taught in graduate school back in the '80s, we were always taught to say, you know, my child has autism versus I have an autistic child.

Right. It's so funny you said that because we learned that, and I'm a special ed— was a special ed teacher, and I remember learning that in grad school, but it was in the '90s. Right.

And now even, um, the The disability community is saying, please do not say children with special needs. Please say disabled child or child with disabilities, because we don't have special needs. We have the same needs as everybody else. We have needs for education. We have needs for kindness. We have needs for support. Those are the same needs neurotypical children have. We don't have any special needs. We have the same needs as everyone. We have a disability. And so we're really in an environment now where we have to really think about our language. And Val, I think, brought this up for me when you said, you know, I have ADHD or I am ADHD, and that brought up a feeling of shame. We want to erase the stigma of these diagnoses, and that's a very hard thing to do when our society Society forces shame on us when, when school districts want to remove our children from their classrooms. There are still school districts that are wanting to start segregated schools for children with disabilities in this day and age. Makes me nauseous. There are still schools that don't want to provide aids so that children with disabilities can stay in general education classrooms. They want to move them out of general education classrooms because they find them— horrible word— disruptive. You know, so I think the really important thing here is that we own who we are and we are proud of it, because I'm going to keep saying it, people in that Venn diagram, those overlapping circles, are capable. of competent lives, of fulfilling lives, and that we as their family members, their parents, their husbands and wives can support them in doing that. And so I think that's a very important message, Felissa. Thank you for bringing it up. Gayathri, thank you for joining us. Would you like to introduce yourself and ask a question?

Yeah. Uh, hello, Dr. Susan. Hi, Samara and Val. Thank you for inviting me upstage. And yeah, I'm Gayathri and I have ADHD, anxiety, and depression. And I got diagnosed last year with ADHD, though I knew that I had something going on because I did my master's in social work. So I was pretty much aware of this thing. And I also got my daughter diagnosed this year. And fortunately, the medications are working for her. She's 12, by the way. And I tried some medications, but actually, the stimulants gave me terrible anxiety because I was already diagnosed with anxiety and depression 2 years ago, and I was on medication while I got diagnosed for ADHD. So it was a very pretty rough journey for me. And My anxiety never goes away. It's kind of become my personality. I'm pretty sure you would have a different opinion, but but that's also was aggravated by my trauma, my childhood trauma, and my enmeshment trauma and stuff. So though I am very aware, I'm educated, and I am pretty much informed about all the stuff, and I connect with my peers and wonderful people like you, and pretty much keep. Myself informed about all these. I still go through times which, uh, really, you know, um, like I just had a meltdown 2 days ago and it was, uh, really hard. It's a very, very hard journey, um, especially as a mom, being a parent and have to break generational trauma and give a better childhood to, uh, to my kids and, you know, not let my issues, um, impact their childhood. So it's, it's very hard, and it's getting harder than ever every day since my daughter is almost a teenager now. So it's, uh, it's a journey. And, um, I— the reason I came here, came here is I am, uh, right now I was introduced to TMS. Like, if anybody know— knows that, uh, that magnetic stimulation therapy. And I am going to take that and try it out because I do need help with my ADHD, but medications are not helping me and it is not working for me. So, uh, and my anxiety and depression doesn't seem to go away. And, um, with, uh, other therapy, I didn't see much difference because I tried EMDR and other, uh, just talk therapy, but I was not happy with Both, and so I'm just trying this out, and hopefully just figuring out different things and trying out different things and seeing what works for me. So that I learned that I'm not gonna stop trying, but at the same time, it is so hard to keep pursuing to heal and. How many, how many ever times I fail, it the only thing that pushes me is I just want to be the best to my kids. So that's what pushes me, and that is exactly what I wanted to tell you. And if you have any ideas about TMS or how it works, or would there be any difference, and then we can see any difference, and then it goes back to normal. So if anybody could. Tell me how that works. It'd be really good. Thank you. I'm Gayathri. I'm complete.

Okay, um, Gayathri, I'm sorry things are very hard right now. Um, let's connect and talk about how I can support you. Um, you know, we've been in touch before, and I think we have an appointment set up soon as well. So I think that's going to be really helpful, and I'm just wanting to let you know that you have all our support. I think the most important thing, as you've already said, is knowing that with these additional mental health diagnoses and getting the support that you are, that's the first thing you have to address. Sometimes it's hard to know when you have multiple things going on. Which is the first one to handle? And it's always the one that's causing you the most distress. And so I'm just going to address that part right now for the, for the help of everyone who's online, and then we can talk about the rest of it more privately. But I think the really important thing is to know which thing is the most important to address, and that's a question that comes to me frequently. Do you address the ADHD? Do you address the depression? Do you address the anxiety? Do you address the family emergency? You know, which one do you address first? And the answer to that, I think, is always, which is the one that hurts the most? And I always ask it this way. I say, if I could wave a magic wand and take away your sleepless nights, Which one thing would you get rid of? Which one thing would you change? And that's the thing you should address first. Gayathri, did you want to answer that?

Um, yeah, that was a little complicated. Uh, I was just thinking, and, um, it's not a one easy answer, uh, because my ADHD— I mean, sorry, my anxiety and depression is so connected with my Childhood trauma. So, and this thing with my family, or actual not family, extended family, my parents and my siblings, I kind of disconnected and dissociated with them because I can't deal with it anymore. That's too much of a baggage. So, but I still, I am still a daughter, I'm still a sister. So it kind of lingers on and I do have to address the trauma, but that's not an emergency. And my anxiety and depression is every day because my anxiety keeps me from doing certain things for my children. Like, for example, just before I started speaking, my daughter came back from school today, and I was asking her how the school went as usual. She said, I gave my number to— I mean, she gave her number to her friend and she wanted to have a playdate. So the immediate response I had was like the anxiety response as usual. Like, why do you— she has like, who's that? Who's the friend? Where she lives? And why do you have to have a playdate and stuff? And then I went back and I started reflecting. I was like, why am I doing that? She should be having a good childhood. She should be having friends and School is not everything. And she might, she might like to have friends away from school too. And of course, the friend was in school, and she might want to have a playdate. And that's so normal of a middle schooler. And why am I so against it? Then I, when I reflected, then I remember that my mom never wanted me to be around anybody. And I was a victim of narcissistic abuse. Because of my mom and my brother, also my also my father. But and she had terrible anxiety and ADHD and mean thing going. She might be borderline as well. So these were not addressed till very later in her life, and I was the scapegoat child and victim. So it is. I know it is so much personal information, but the reason I am telling this is it was so hard for me to. It was just five minutes, and I had to process so much, so many years of my life. To take a decision that, okay, I'm gonna call my daughter after some time and tell her that it is okay, she can have a playdate with certain conditions, which is going to not traumatize me or make my anxiety worse. The reason is I always expect something bad might happen to her, something will happen to her, or someone might hurt her. And But I understand that life has to happen, and she needs to live her life. And one day she might turn up and say, "Mom, you did so much, but just completely spoiled my happiness. You did not let me live my happy life." And that might happen if I go on continue to be this anxious mom. But I don't want that. So, and that is why I'm taking this hard step every day. It is very hard to practice, but I'm. Consciously doing it. So yes, so these decisions are very hard. So like Dr. Susan, I know you asked one simple question, but it's not simple for me to answer. And I'm sorry, I'm taking up too much time.

Thank you for sharing with us, Gayathri. And I feel so honored that you felt safe enough to come to this room and share with us what you're experiencing. And it means a great deal to me that you felt safe enough to do that here. And as I said, you and I will continue this conversation. We have time set up to do that. And I just feel really, really touched that you wanted to come here and receive support from us. And I'm really glad that you did. So thank you so much for sharing with us. Thank you. Thank you so much for waiting. Welcome again as a newbie to Clubhouse. Please introduce yourself to everyone and share your story.

Hi, I'm Meredith. I'm 21 years old. I'm in college right now. I'm in my last year. And I was actually chosen as student rep for my program. I was actually offered to help my teacher recruit new students for next year. So I got diagnosed with a variety of different things at different points in my life. My first diagnosis was nonverbal learning disability when I was 13. And, you know, being the 13-year-old that I was, I had a lot on my mind. You know, I was wondering when the next episode of Suite Life of Zack and Cody was coming out. And like, I was worried about Justin Bieber. Like, when I got my diagnosis, I thought that it would give other kids license to pick on me for the rest of my life. And as I kind of matured and grew out of that, I realized that, you know what, a disability doesn't define me. It doesn't define how successful I'm gonna be in my life. I was never a good student, like up until college, I was never a good student. I have straight A's now.

Yeah.

And then when I graduated grade 12— sorry, I'm terrible at public speaking. You'll have to bear with me. When I graduated grade 12 and applied to college and got in, my school told me— the college that I'm at right now told me that they wanted to retest me. And I was nervous. I was talking to my mom about it, who's actually a very big advocate on my behalf. I said, you know what, like, what if they retest me and they don't find anything? And my mom looked at me, and I will never forget this as long as I shall live. My mom looked at me and said, you're a textbook case. I've read so many books, like, they're gonna find something. So that's when they found my ADHD and my math learning disability. I've also had school-related anxiety since I was 9 because I was bullied a lot. And I was never able to really keep up in class. Like, now looking back on it, I kind of only participated in things that I thought were fun, which is very ADHD of me. But if something didn't interest me or I wasn't good at something, I didn't want to do it at all.

Yeah.

So that's basically my story.

Meredith, Meredith and I know each other in case some of you hadn't noticed yet. Would you just say a word more about how anxiety impacted your ADHD? I think that would be helpful.

So anxiety actually makes my ADHD worse. Sometimes I get headaches or stomachaches like previously mentioned. My anxiety makes my ADHD worse, especially if I'm driving. Like, I got into a car accident a couple of weeks ago after buying my first car, and I had a lot of anxiety around driving again. And I've found that my anxiety has been so much higher, especially pulling out of places. Like, and my ADHD is worse because then like, My thoughts kind of hyperfocus and then I'm not focused on what I'm doing.

Thank you so much, Meredith, for coming here and being a self-advocate. It is so helpful and I hope you're hearing that many people in this room are like you, are— have ADHD, have anxiety, and are successful adults. And I know that you're going to be there as well. Felicia, did you want to say something?

I did.

Meredith, again, thank you for being so vulnerable and sharing your story. I could relate to that so much, and I'm 20 years older, um, being diagnosed when I was in the 6th grade. I would love to know if it was okay with you if I could connect with you, um, off of Clubhouse, but I did not see that you were connected. You did not connect an Instagram page or Facebook page. page to your Clubhouse. So if that's possible, you can either, you know, text me in the back channel or you can let us know what your Instagram is because I'd love to connect with you.

Yeah, for sure. I can put my Instagram up or my— actually, Facebook would be better. I could put my Facebook up after.

Great. Looking forward to connecting. It's Felicia and I'm not done speaking.

I just love it. Thank you so much, Meredith. A pleasure to meet you here. Christy, thank you so much for being here. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Can I make a comment for Meredith real quick? Yeah, thank you so much for coming in here and sharing. I related with your story as well. And I want to share with you that I was a perfectionist when I was younger. Like, I always had to have the best grades. To the point that I would like make myself sick. And then around, I don't know, 14 or so, I gave up. I was like, forget it. I'm working so hard. What's the point? And I started, you know, because school was so boring for me, I would actually like hide in my closet on days that I had a speech. I was so afraid. Today I speak on stages with 1,000 people. And, you know, like I was so I hated high school. Like, I would skip school, and I actually went to a writing class, a creative writing class I wasn't even enrolled in, and the teacher let me do it because, I don't know, maybe she knew that there was something going on. But I would sit in a class that I wasn't even enrolled in. And so everything you're saying, like, yeah, you know, like, that was— I didn't know I had ADHD until, you know, later in life. But you can absolutely still be successful. You know, I've built a successful— I've built several successful businesses. I'm a serial entrepreneur. And you know what I've learned to discover is that some of us just don't fit in that box of normal, whatever normal is, right? And so if there's any doubt in your mind, like, do not doubt, because I worried that— I thought I was stupid. I thought nobody was ever— you know, all the stories I had. But you can absolutely You know, and use people in this room as expanders that you can be successful. You can have a normal quote unquote normal life. But you know what? You might actually have more fun because we have way more fun. So I just want to speak that into you and just let you know that. Oh my gosh! I wish I knew what you knew at. I wish I knew what you know at the same age. And you know that's not my story, but. I'm just— I'm so proud of you for being here and for speaking up and speaking your truth, even if your voice does shake, because that's the place to start. I'm Val and I'm complete.

Thank you so much, Val. That was lovely. Okay, Christy, thank you so much for being here. Introduce yourself and share your story. Christy, are you—

Are people talking to me? Because I— yes, yes, I have, I have terrible, I have terrible signal and I only heard a piece and I heard someone say introduce yourself.

We can hear you just fine.

Go ahead. Oh good, and I hope I didn't disrupt the stage earlier because I could hear nothing while everyone was talking. It was very strange.

No, no, we can hear you just fine. Please share your story.

Oh, good. Okay. Well, I am, um, I, I have not been officially diagnosed with ADHD, but one of my psychiatrists said that he thought I probably had it. So he gave me a prescription and said, try it and see if it makes it better. And, um, I, uh, I never tried it because I don't really like to take drugs. So, um, and, and this was years and years ago. And I just, I, and then I kind of forgot that that was what hap— what happened to me. So anyway, then I, um, found this, this community and I'm just like, oh my gosh, this is, these are my people. So that's why I'm here.

Yeah.

And, um, that's, that's my basic story. And now I've, because of all the problems I had technologically, I'm Sorry, but I don't remember what I was going to ask. So I'm sad because I did have something, but it's gone. So this is Christy, and I'm done speaking.

Thank you so much, Christy. If you remember, just flash your mic. Yeah, if you remember, just go ahead and flash your mic, Christy. And you can ask your question.

Okay.

Thank you so much for sharing, Kristie. Yes, ma'am.

So, Reverend, may I comment on one thing that Kristie said? I want to comment on one thing people said because I hear this so much with ADHD. I don't like to take drugs. I don't like to take LSD, but I'm okay with Tylenol. And I wouldn't take cocaine, but I'm all right with insulin for diabetes. I do think there's a difference between drugs and medicine. And so I do just want to comment, when I hear parents say, I don't want to give my kid drugs, I always want to ask if you give your kid Tylenol and if you take the, you know, if you take medicine for antibiotics, if you have an infection, because these are not drugs. It's medicine. And so the evidence is very, very clear that medicine for ADHD plus behavioral intervention is the single most combination that's effective. So I just have to comment when people call this drugs rather than medicine. It just worries me about the implications. So I just wanted to comment on that.

So Can I jump on that really quickly? Because I feel the same way, just being, you know, diagnosed for so long in my life. And many times I would say to clients, or what— sorry, clients— like, if my child can't see the board, I'm going to give him an assistance, which would be glasses. But I don't think that— I'm not, not comparing apples to apples. But I do, you know, I do feel that I would, I would look into anything that is suggested by— I'm sorry, my dogs want to speak as well, um, because they're ADD too. Um, suggested, like you said, I think it's a great way. I love the way you said that it's not really drugs, it is medicine to not fix But aid, the aid, something that is holding us back, or not always holding us back, but that we could possibly be more productive or see things more clearly or whatever it is, not feel so broken, which some of us do in the beginning because we don't know the resources. So I want to thank you, Susan, for— that's a great way, the difference between drugs and medication.

And this is Christy, just so I can explain a little bit better. Actually, Susan, I don't take Tylenol or any other medication that I don't want to take or don't feel like I need. And so that's what I meant when I said that. I was— at the time, I was already on antidepressant medications, and I just didn't want to add that to it. And I also have a medical condition that That requires me to take medication every single day for something totally unrelated. Um, so I do apologize for saying drugs, and now I understand, um, that, and that's great. I'm so glad we had this discussion, actually. Um, but I, I am— I, I really do try to do things, um, as naturally as possible because I find that the side effects of things are really concerning. And, and so that's where I'm coming from, and I do apologize for setting, setting that off. But this is Kristi, and I'm done speaking.

And I think it's absolutely legitimate to choose not to take medication.

No apologies, Kristi.

Yeah, that's what I wanted to say. You're absolutely legitimate not to take medication, but then just say you're not taking medication, and it's Absolutely a legitimate choice. And I support parents who choose not to take medication, but make it a choice because you choose not to take it. So thank you so much, Christy, for explaining. And I was going to say, same as you, Summer, no need for apologies at all.

Yeah, absolutely. I think we are all in a different— oh, sorry, were you talking, Meredith?

Oh, sorry. I didn't want to like interrupt you or anything.

Go ahead, you're good.

Go ahead.

I just wanted to speak to how hard it is to get ADHD medication as an adult. I recently switched doctors, and let me tell you, the nurse practitioner that I had, trying to get any kind of help from her for my ADHD was like pulling teeth.

That's interesting.

I know that I often feel like a convict when I go through the pharmacy drive-through. But Susan, did you want to speak to that a little bit? Well, before you do, if I could just say something, please, Christy. Thanks for sharing. I, and I wanted to say, really, like, we're all at a different place in a different journey. And we have different, you know, ways that we, we deal with things. And, and I think that, you know, like Susan said, like, we totally Respect each other. The medication versus holistic, or not holistic, but more natural, that topic is so— it's a really hot topic. And oftentimes I try and steer a little bit clear of it just because people do have a very passionate opinion about it. So yeah, just recognize that we're all at this different place and we allow different things. I've had epilepsy since I was 11. And so really I had to be on medication. And so to me it's like a miracle, but for someone else that has had epilepsy and they never could find a medication that worked, they don't have as much faith in it itself. So I think we're all just trying to figure crap out. It's a difficult thing, but thank you, Christy, for sharing, and thank you, Susan and Felicia, for, you know, all the feedback and, you know, contributions to this room to make it rich and full. So yeah, awesome. So yeah, Susan, if you want to go ahead, I think that what Meredith brought up is actually a very poignant topic. So go ahead if you want.

I think this has just been a really, really in-depth discussion about how people with multiple diagnoses, dual diagnoses, are misunderstood, are often labeled because they have one diagnosis versus another, are often overlooked by our system. Because I know just even the question about can an adult with ADHD get diagnosed and get medication relates to what Meredith said about being concerned about being appropriately diagnosed as an adult. I mean, I think that's a relevant issue here because I think it's so important that we all address this is not a children's disorder. This is a lifelong disorder. I already said there's a genetic component. It's a neurodevelopmental disorder. You don't outgrow this, but you do manage it and learn to cope with it, and that you need to have access to the appropriate resources to be able to manage your lives and be successful. And that's the most important message I hope people will continue to take away from today's presentation, that there's no stigma to having ADHD, depression, anxiety, bipolar disorder, Other disorders, there's only a need to get appropriate diagnosis and treatment, no matter your age, no matter your stage of life. And that if you don't get that treatment from the first doctor you go to, find a different doctor. Find the appropriate specialist. A pediatrician might dismiss you. An internist might Dismiss you. Find a psychiatrist with pediatric or adult ADHD experience. Look in your network. Come here. Help find someone like myself, Summer, or Val to refer you within our networks. Look for the right resources because you deserve appropriate support and treatment. We will support you in helping you find it. I think that's the most important message I want to give.

Thanks, Summer.

Yeah, thanks, Susan. I just love you, Susan. You're such a wealth of knowledge, and I just love having you in these rooms. Um, I have a, a question for you. It's something that Val and I had talked about, and maybe an extension even, um, of the addiction room that they're, um, gonna talk about. So something that we had talked about earlier and that I've had a Even with like two of my clients, the parents is about addiction and the the medication. And I already know your opinion, and it's also my opinion. But let me ask like a specific question about that. So those of us that have like a predisposition to addiction, or let's say you know we have you know we're we were or. I guess you still are, I don't know how you say that, um, a drug addict, you know, and, or if you were in it or are an alcoholic and, um, more drugs. So let's stay with the drugs. Let's say that you are a drug addict, that you're a cocaine or a meth addict or whatever. And so let's say that you, um, do get diagnosed with ADHD and they do give you those meds, the tendency to abuse the, that medication is definitely, I would say, higher than for somebody who doesn't have that addiction. So what would you say to that? Because, you know, we say— we obviously know that it's not going to, like, make you have an addiction or cause an addiction if you start taking that medicine, but the tendency to abuse that medication, I feel like, should be taken into What do you think, Susan?

Well, I think first of all, your doctor must do a complete history of your addiction history and your family's addiction history. If your doctor gives you potentially addictive drugs without knowing what your addiction history is, find another doctor because you have to be careful monitored on these medications if you have an addiction history. That is absolutely critical. The second is, is if you have an addiction history and you're being given potentially addictive drugs, you need to be in addiction treatment. That is also critical to being given these drugs appropriately so that you are not going to abuse them. And so going into a 12-step program or a Rational Recovery program or being on Antabuse if you're alcoholic or some other type of either cognitive or 12-step program is absolutely critical if you're going to be given a methamphetamine-based treatment. It is absolutely critical. You cannot be actively in addictive behavior and given It's just not good medical practice. And so you may have to, you know, think about your own use of these medications. If your doctor has not done a complete addiction history of your drug and alcohol abuse prior to giving you these meds, change doctors. It's another reason why I say you should not be getting these medications from a pediatrician or general practitioner, you need to be seeing an experienced psychiatrist who knows how to manage these things. So that's the first part of the question. The second part of the question is, if used properly, that means if you do have ADHD or anxiety, you know, and you are being given an ADHD prescribed drug and you take it As prescribed, these drugs are not addictive. They are not. They are only addictive if you misuse them. So children and adults who are taking the regularly prescribed doses, these drugs wash out of your system within a few hours. 10 milligrams of Ritalin wash out of your system after 4 hours. It's gone. There is no high. There is no further dosage and you don't habituate to it at a 10 milligram dose or a 20 milligram dose of regular Ritalin. It's gone. Concerta and Adderall is gone within 8 to 12 hours. When they test for it, there is none left in your body. It is only addictive if you are taking Over the prescribed dose. And if you don't have ADHD, that's the issue. So that's why, for example, when my son went to college on Adderall, people pay $100 a pill because college students who do not have ADHD take it to do all-nighters. So if you misuse the medication, it is addictive and it is inappropriate. appropriate. But if you have ADHD, your other addictions are under control because you're receiving treatment, and you're using it as prescribed, followed by a reputable doctor, which means you're being seen a minimum of every 3 to 6 months, they are not dangerous to you. Summer, does that answer your question?

Yeah, I'm gonna have Val go ahead too.

Yeah, I was gonna say that was definitely my experience. Like I've shared before, I am a recovering alcoholic and I had 10 years of recovery under my belt when I started talking about this. And, I chose personally not to do stimulants. That was my personal choice, but there was a lot of talking, investigating, talking with my mentor, sharing with my doctor, and I was very honest about it. So, she did that exact same thing like you were saying. It was like she would give me 30 days of medication, see how it goes, and then I would have to see her once a month, my prescriber. But yeah, I think that when addiction comes into the picture, it's like knowing yourself and getting the support. I mean, I have people in my life that when they have surgeries and stuff, maybe I hold onto their medication and give it to them as prescribed or getting that support. And knowing yourself and knowing what you can handle. And also, if you are, and I'm not saying this is kind of an overarching topic, if anyone is struggling with that, if you are thinking maybe you're an addict or maybe you're newly sober and you're wondering or you're curious, just get a lot of support and also examine your motives. If my motive to take my Adderall in the morning is to get high, then I know I'm in trouble.

Yeah.

You know, or if my motive to take anything, eat some sugar, go shopping, go have sex, like I'm in trouble, right? But if my motive is that this is something that will help me be well and operate as prescribed, then I'm clear, I'm good. So I love the way that you described that, Dr. Susan, and thank you for talking about that very hot topic that is very needed as well.

I think this is so helpful to know because I'm in school to become a case manager for people with complex health and developmental needs. So I think it's so helpful to know because I'm going to run into people who are on my caseload who struggle with different types of addictions, whether it's controlled substance use or alcohol use. Yeah, I think it's really helpful to know that because then if they want to look into medication, I can explore that with them.

Thank you, Meredith. That was really helpful. And Val, I really love the way you said, if I wake up wanting to get high from what I'm doing, whether that's shopping, sugar, or medication, that is a fabulous way to address the question of addiction. I really love that. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on that.

You're welcome. Thank you.

What if I wake up and I just want to go back to sleep?

Avoidance is a cue as well, Summer. It's a sign of depression.

Yes, we know this.

Yes. If my motivation is to get up and take my medication so that I can have a better day, there we go, right? That's awesome. This has been such a great conversation. Yeah.

This is one of my favorites.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I am such a huge advocate of mental health. Really, that's where my journey began to working with not necessarily parents, but becoming an ADHD life coach is some of the issues that I was having with my mental health. And then dealing with the ADHD when I was— I was diagnosed when I was 11. And so I kind of, after I got married and went through life, Um, I recognized after I got my, um, generalized anxiety disorder, um, diagnosis that, you know, my doctor, 5 years, which tells you something, said, well, maybe you have ADHD. And I was like, oh yeah, that was like, I remember I got diagnosed with that one time. So we tend to, to forget. So like, it's so interesting, you know, like Susan said, like the statistics show that You know, 50% of those with ADHD also have a comorbid mental health condition or mental health diagnosis. So I think that those are, you know, such relevant, relevant topics to bring to the table when it comes to discussing ADHD, because it's hard, you know, and I definitely fit, you know, what Susan was saying. And sometimes that's difficult, like, I don't feel any different than anyone else, but, but I have these like thoughts in my head due to anxiety and ADHD. And, um, my thoughts never stop. Okay. Like, I, like, not that I need to tell anybody in this room that this, but I honestly, I constantly think, and it's taken me, you know, so much, um, time and energy to find a place in my mind. I have had to, like, I've read so many books, done therapy, you know, done coaching, some self, you know, improvement, all of those things. And I think it's just like a, it's just like a journey to help yourself continue to improve and to know that if something doesn't work, you know, you can try something else. Like, you know, to the point of like, uh, or back to the thought of, you know, medication or not, or, you know, we, if we're scared to go forward and try something different when we need to, it will just keep us stuck, you know? So, you know, if we are having, you know, some of the physical side effects or like I have a friend, she couldn't take any of like the stimulants for ADHD because she would get headaches and nausea and, you know, so she had to experiment. Something else to help her. And, you know, just knowing that, you know, a lot of times it's trial and error. You know, I have to— every 3 months I feel like I have to like restructure my work week, how I do things, and like come back to myself. So I think it's super important to, you know, look at all those things together. Um, Corey was up here and he was on the phone, so I'm gonna have Dr. Susan give us some closing words, and then we will, we will go ahead and close the room.

Go ahead.

Okay, thank you so much. This has been an amazing discussion, and I think the really 3 messages I'd like people to take away, and I'll say them again briefly: medications plus behavioral, cognitive behavioral, or coaching around Changing your skills to be able to cope with life is the most effective intervention. Second is that 50% of people with ADHD deal with some type of mental health diagnosis. You are not strange or weird, you are normal. And third is you can be successful, capable, and competent with the appropriate supports. I hope all of you heard those 3 messages too. And that if you are not receiving appropriate treatment or you're not being supported by your family, your workplace, or your school, that you will reach out to Summer, Val, and I through the back channel, our Instagram, and that the 3 of us will help you find referrals and supports in your local neighborhoods. Any of us can do that for you. And that we are committed, the 3 of us to helping people with ADHD, whether you're a child, a parent, or an adult, when you get your diagnosis, to getting the right supports. We want you all to be successful. So those are my closing remarks. And as Felicia says, I can always keep talking, but I'm going to mute.

Oh gosh, that's awesome, Susan. Thank you so much for being here. And I actually do— if you guys go to my website, LiveLifeClearly.com. I have a free parenting guide and the back of it has 10 pages, like typed pages in the PDF of resources for mental health and ADHD. So yeah, I was just thinking about that as she was talking about resources. So if you guys want to go check that out, that would be, that would be actually a really good resource for somebody getting started. It, it's categorized into like men, women, relationships, Parents. Um, I don't even know. And it has like podcasts, YouTube links, um, YouTube channels, books, and whatever. So that's actually a really good resource. Um, Val, did you have any closing words before we, um, before we end the room?

Yes.

So grateful for you. Thank you, Dr. Susan. Oh my goodness. This was so good. And thank you to everyone who got up and spoke and shared your heart. This was such a great conversation and it's just beautiful. I love it.

That's it.

You're the best.

Awesome. Thank you so much for inviting me, Val and Summer. And you know, even though this is ADHD month, can we keep doing this? Can we just have these conversations?

Yes, please. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

This is the best.

This is the best thing to do. I mean, Val does all the entrepreneurship. I do all the parenting stuff. And like, honestly, we, we were talking about this and we've talked about it a lot. So much of this is so much overlap because really what it's about is relationships and connections and making those connections with other people, um, and yourself so that you can have the type of success you need to move on and to move forward with your life.

Yes.

You know, defining success is different for everyone.

Yes.

So I think that's such an important, important piece of that. So thank you so much for being here, Susan. Yeah, let's keep having a good conversation.

Thank you.

And tomorrow, yes, tomorrow, 9:30 AM and 1:30 PM Pacific time, we are going to have 2 more guests.

I cannot remember who they are off the top of my head, but we will be having 2 guests.

Val, if you remember, or if you look by the time I'm done, then you can Say it, but if you haven't already registered for ADHD Rise, go to adhdrise.com and sign up and you can have access to the Facebook page and you can have access to the replays. So that'd be a great thing if you guys want to go do that. And then you'll have, you know, be in touch. This has been a fantastic conversation. I'm so excited to be doing ADHD Rise. We love to change lives. And when I rise, you rise and we rise together. So thank you everyone for being here. Bye-bye.

Bye. Bye.

Thank you, everybody. So beautiful.

Thank you. Bye-bye.

Bye.

Bye.