ADHD RISE | Co-occurring Disorders & Substance Abuse Disorder | Pauly A ♤ Lucky'N Sober| Val Nichols

Hey, Paulie!

Hey, what's up, Val?

How are you doing?

Oh, I'm good.

Oh, beautiful.

We are celebrating ADHD Rise. As you know, this is the 2nd annual ADHD Rise event. If you are brand new, hello and welcome. If you are— if this is your very first time ever in the entire universe either meeting myself, Val Nichols, or Polly A, just know that you are in a safe, amazing, incredible space. We are going to be rocking it out here today, and Polly A is an incredible human being. If you guys don't know him, he is a— his background is in peer support specialists. He's been in, um, you know, multiple forms of recovery for several decades, right? 20-something years?

Uh, yes. No, more like, uh, oh well, my own journey started 40 years ago.

I was gonna say, with the different levels of recovery, I'm sure it's like—

I've got 10 years of sharing how it doesn't work, and then I got 33 years of how it does work. So I'm pretty, uh, pretty blessed.

Blessed.

All right, and today we are gonna be talking about, Polly's gonna share about ADHD, co-occurring disorders, and substance abuse disorder. And just know that, you know, it's very common, and I know he's gonna go more into detail with this, but it is very common for people with ADHD. So if yourself, maybe it's a loved one, just know that those co-occurring disorders are pretty much the norm, not the exception. And so, you know, if, if anything is showing up for you, whether if it is depression, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, um, eating disorders, depression, you know, there's so many different things that come along with it. Anxiety. Um, just know that you're in a, a safe space and that, you know, anything that you're going through is normal. And, um, you know, it's— you're, you're not alone. I know sometimes in those moments it can feel like we are alone or we're battling through these things. And, but just know that you're in a great space here to be around someone who can give you not only, you know, the experience, the strength, the hope, but also like, now what, right? Because it's one thing to be aware of it, but it's also another to, you know, have the tools, have the tools of recovery to be able to recover and thrive and, you know, really live beyond The limitations. And that's our, our theme for the year for ADHD Rise is because we refuse to be defined by any limitations. And I say any limitations, meaning any limitations. So hop on in. So excited you're coming in. With that, I'll pass the mic over to Hey Hey Polly A, Mr. Lucky and Sober himself. And share with us who you are, what you do, and I will yield the mic to your expertise and genius, Polly A.

All righty, all righty. Well, thank you, Val, and thank you so much for setting this up and being, uh, to service of this wonderful, wonderful community. It's definitely a need that is out there for all of us to find community. There's so many people that are struggling, and I love the theme that we're not going to allow anything to stop us. It's just a fantastic idea to just keep going, right? And we do that together. We do that together. And hi everybody, I'm Paulie A. I'm a person in long-term recovery from the diseases of alcoholism and drug addiction, which Sometimes it's called substance use disorder. You know, that's the new fancy way that they diagnose it in the MSD-5. That's, that's so the government can charge. They, they don't call it, uh, you know, the addiction or alcoholism. They call it substance use disorder. So if you hear me use that terminology, understand it's a broad spectrum, just like our mental health. It's a broad spectrum of different addiction behaviors, right? And, and the same is— I also am living with ADHD and, uh, other traits that I've learned, behavioral traits, thinking traits, codependency, which all comes along with this big beautiful basket that is my brain, right? My brain. I don't know if anybody can relate here what I found out in recovery, and I've been in recovery a long time. Like Val says, I've been blessed. I was 17 when I was first And it wasn't by choice. It was— I was institutionalized because of my behavior, because nobody understood me, right? And I didn't even understand myself. I had no clue what was going on. You know, I— so some of my early memories, and, and I'll share them with you and date myself. How many here— flash your mics— remember or knew that before cable TV, The TV actually shut off at midnight through broadcast TV, right? I don't see many mics flashing, right? But actually what used to happen is at midnight, your broadcast channels would stop broadcasting and they wouldn't come on until 6 in the morning. But Paulie, Paulie here, little Paulie, when he was just a youngin', you know, 7, 8, 6, 7, Was up at 5:30, would go in and get a bowl of cereal, and would sit there staring at the, the TV screen, at the timer, waiting for the TV to come on because I, I needed that stimulation. I didn't know that at the time. I didn't know why I was doing what I was doing at the time. And then one of my first memories of getting in trouble was in the summer when school was out. And the sun came up. I'm knocking on doors. I want Bobby to come out and play. Johnny, what's going on? It's light out. It's 6 AM. The sun's up. It's time to play cops and robbers, and, and it's time to play all these things. And hey, I love it, Michelle. Thank you. That is exactly what it looked like. The snow was falling in the TV, right? And I didn't know why I doing those things. And throughout, throughout my childhood, I did some really irresponsible, off-the-wall behaviors that just made no sense. I came from a great family. There was no abuse, no mental, physical, spiritual abuse of any sort, you know. For— in fact, we were sort of the Leave It to Beaver family, you know. My father would come home from work at 5 and we'd eat dinner all as a family. Everything looked good. And my— I have 2 older brothers and a younger sister, and all of them just fit right in line, right? Nobody got out of line. Everybody got good grades. And then there was Paulie, right? Then there was me, always doing everything opposite of everybody else. Leaving out the door at sunrise, and they'd have to come find me sometimes for dinner. You know, not coming in until it was so dark out It couldn't see what was going on. Always exploring, always trying to be stimulated. I didn't know what was going on, nor did anybody else. And then at— on a school break in, uh, when I was 12 years old, I found drugs and alcohol, right? And I think the thing there was, for the first time, my brain got quiet, right? For the first time, all those thoughts, all that raciness, all that desire to be stimulated, all that running around, it all stopped and it all got real quiet. And I thought, wow, this is really cool. It's quiet. I have no fears. I have no anxiety. I'm just here. Is this what spirituality is about? Am I one with God? All these things, man, just going. But at the same time, I loved it because the minute I come down, Immediately, everything started all over again, right? All the thoughts, all the anxiety, all the questions, every the rat race in my brain just started all over, right? So what? So before long, I was doing drugs and alcohol on a regular basis. They just consumed me, which was sort of a pattern. And I don't know if anybody else can agree and watch or or understand is. As I grew older, one of the ways I masked my ADHD and even some of my learning disabilities— I think I struggled in school as I got older because I don't know about— for me, when it came to reading, I could actually watch a page disappear as I read it. I don't know if anybody else can, but as I'm reading, my brain just goes into some other planet, some other thought, some other parallel dimension. And before I know it, I'm staring literally at a white piece of paper, and then I have to refocus to see the words. So I had never read many books in my life, you know, and I was like, so that was starting to affect me. So the point I made, we start to mask, and maybe people can relate to this, and this is something we could talk about. As you get older, you learn to mask, right? It's a survival technique. You figure things out. Okay, I have to make these excuses. I have to do these things. I change my behavior. I change what I do to mask what's really, really going on. And what was really going on was I was lost, didn't know how to tell anybody that, and, you know, I was just going downhill. And like I said, I was consumed by drugs, and then eventually I got in trouble. And what was, you know, my parents— like I said, I came up with a great family. So my parents— and, you know, I was sentenced. I'd, uh, I'd be straight out, man. I, I stole a car one night trying to— for thrills. Didn't know— I knew the minute I was doing it what I was doing, it was wrong. I knew it the whole time. So many things I did wrong, I knew what I— why I was doing it was wrong. But it was like this string being pulled that I could not resist. And it just pulled me right into that. And I, you know, but my parents got me institutionalized instead of being sent to boys' school, which is what I was sentenced to. And there is where I learned recovery, right? Learned the principles. But then everybody blamed it on the drugs, the alcohol, right? It was— you were— they taught me that I was chemically dependent, that I— it was because drugs and alcohol have a chemical base, therefore you're chemically dependent. You have this physical allergy, and when you induce those products into your body, you're out of control. Which was true. It was absolutely true. The problem was, when they weren't in my body, I was still out of control, right? I was still— I mean, I didn't go quite to the extremes. There was a little bit more inhibition in my judgment when I was sober, but yet I still couldn't live within my own head. There were still so many things going on. And eventually I got into a relationship, and eventually there was children involved, and then I just consumed. So I became what's, you know, one of the ways I masked was codependency, right? Every day I wake up and I think about her, how I can please her, how I can make the marriage work, how I could be a father. Everything was about everybody else. But I lost 3 things, man. I lost 3 things for 20 years, even though I gained sobriety through that. Believe it or not, I gained abstinence after 10 years, or in that relationship. But I still, even in abstinence, I lost my value. I didn't value Polly. I lost my voice. Everything, like I said, was about them. And eventually I lost my own vision. I didn't know who I was, where I was, what I was going. So those are the things that— but as I grew older, and then as with my children, all of a sudden we started to learn about ADHD and ADD and all these things in the '80s into the '90s. And it was sort of like I'd take those tests and I'd listen to stuff about it. And my— then I got remarried and my wife told me, you know, talked about it, and everybody was like, man, That's you. That's you, you know. And I could see the resemblance, right? I could see— I could just like everybody on this, on this page, I can so recognize and, you know, just get in with what your stories, man. I'm right there with you. I can so resemble those stories and resemble those behaviors, right? So that's, you know, eventually It's a journey. So many things I've learned is that it's a journey. Today I live with ADHD, like I said, and I live with the diseases of alcoholism and drug addiction, and I live with the behavior, dysfunctional behavior patterns of codependency. But it's a journey. I'm recovering from those things. I am living with those things. Those, as we talk about today, they can be my superpower. There's so many good positive things because I've come to find out that a character trait is just a character trait. It doesn't matter what it is, it's what I do with that trait that makes it either an asset or a liability, right? And today, knowing that I have neurodiversity and that I react differently to things and I need to learn differently And that I need to study differently, but I also know that I have incredible energy and I'm the kind of person you want on your team. If there's a problem that needs to be faced and addressed at this moment, I'm your man because I can think clearly and positively in the midst of chaos, right? That I just, it's like, just sucks in like you see in the movies when the focus goes way out and then it just, the focus just pulls right in. Boom, that's me. Because of that ADHD, man, it hyperfocus, wham, and I can do that. So there's, there's positives, and then there's, you know, the negatives. At the same time, I heard it in the other meeting, like somebody would say, I get bored easy. I could be working on a task, and it might be one of my main goals that I love, I'm so excited about everything, and then 2 hours later, if there's not something super stimulating happening with it, and it's just like on auto cruise, and everything's going the way way it's supposed to go, and it's like, all right, fantastic. Now I'm bored. Now I need a shiny object. Where's the squirrel? You know, and, and I'm often running in another direction. That makes no sense to a non— or to a neurotypical, whatever you want to call it, person, does it? Right? It doesn't make any sense. But that's okay. That's okay. It's about understanding and accepting myself. And I learn each and every day, and it's a journey, and we keep growing. And one of the things I love is community and all the people I see in this room. I see so many people that I know that, that follow me and join us in these rooms. You know, I— it's all about community, right? It's all about community, right, Val? So how do we continue to build this community? How do we bring value to you people? That's what we want to do here. We want to bring value to you. We want to assist you and walk with you as a peer specialist. Then eventually I was able to take all that. See, there's a positive, right? I was able to take all those stories, that library of experiences that I have with substance abuse disorder, with— I have with ADHD behavior, what I have with, with dysfunctional family behaviors, all the different 12-step groups, the SMART Recovery groups. I've spent You know, they say 10,000. I've probably spent 20,000 hours in my lifetime sitting in group meetings. And I'm not— and I'm saying that not to brag or whatever, it's just, it's what draws me in today. I'm addicted to recovery, right? So I'm drawn into those meetings. I'm drawn into working with people. I'm drawn in and I get to use that. And I'm now a certified peer specialist for the state of Wisconsin. And I'm a recovery coach, and and that's what I'm here to do. I'm here to help people build remarkable, resilient lives, right? Help you guys write your own hero's journey, right? Because that's what we're here. We're all trying to be our own hero, right? We're all we're trying to be our best selves. We're trying to be our best advocate. We're trying to be our best human. Being, right? And we do that together, and we do that on a daily basis. And, and that's what's so awesome. And I have the honor to help you. So I'm so excited that we have ADHD Month. That's a little bit about me, and I, and I hope that you got to know me a little bit better. I hope that we connect. If there's something there that you can relate to, please come up. Tell us, share your story. Let us know a little bit about you. Let's build this community because we're all in here together. We get stronger together, and through that, I learn how I can be of assistance and how we can bring more value to you. What do you think, Val?

Woo!

Oh my goodness, you are on fire! Hey hey, Paulie A of Lucky and Sober. You guys, if you don't know this guy, get to know him. He is up and coming in the space, like amazing human being. And I love your story. Thank you for sharing your heart, your vulnerability. And I know there's some people who have some amazing questions. Yeah. And you guys feel like there was a question asked and I want to just share about it. Like, you know, this is the space of recovery and vulnerability, right? This is the space of connection. And yes, it's ADHD Rise and we get to have a positive tone of our our sharing and our being, but we also get to drop down the mask and be human and be seen. So just know that any question you ask is beautiful. Anything you want to share, you can share in the comments, or you can even message one of us if you don't feel comfortable asking a specific question. Then message Paul and he can read it and, you know, keep it in confidence and answer for you. But I know a couple of you guys have questions, so I'll go ahead and— do you want to open up the mic?

Paulie? Absolutely.

All right, let's go.

No, I have a question.

Absolutely.

So basically, one day I was at my, uh, I was at my therapist basically, and like he, he prescribed me with my ADHD, and I was like, uh, come on, bro, like I'm Muslim, I'm Arab, I'm from Yemen. Yeah, I don't fuck with that shit. And then he like, he tried to prescribe me like pills and shit. And so like, I deadass like pulled out my Glock and I just shot him right there. Like, what?

No, you didn't. That's funny, but no, you didn't. And no, ADHD is not something to be ashamed about. And, um, yeah, a lot of high-achieving people have ADHD. It's definitely not a— that was funny. Oh, I pulled out my Glock. No. I don't think you did. But anyway, with that, let's get on to some questions. Mr. Shady, hello, hello.

Hey everyone, uh, Val, Polly. So I just gotta say, uh, I messaged this to Val. Polly, you're, uh, uh, very well spoken in regards to ADHD, and you— I feel like you have a very good understanding of the experience and You have quite a vast knowledge in regards to what's going on. Just wanted to say that because I rarely meet people who can describe things and I can relate to them in such a specific manner. Um, what I wanted to ask, um, I think it's like 2 questions, uh, you know, answer them in the order that you feel most comfortable with. So, you know, I've struggled with— the first question is, I struggled with, uh, substance, uh, abuse, uh, whether it be, uh, alcohol, uh, and drugs. And, um, you know, um, for me, I have This internal dilemma because, for example, when I was very much addicted to marijuana, and I've actually recently smoked on vacation some, and it sort of made me think about certain stuff. And that's the, you know, the issue with the fact that ADHD We have an issue with stimulation, and I find that when I smoke, um, I tend to be very, very stimulated, and that helps me engage with reality in a very, very concentrated manner. And I can— I don't want to say finally, but I can, to a certain degree—

Mm-hmm.

connect more with what's going on around me and my thoughts and my feelings. Now, personally, I do not want to, you know, go back to smoking every day, you know, spending money on it, being addicted, having to do— it's illegal where I live, and I don't want to have to get in trouble. Um, and more than anything, it's just in the long term, it does not sustain me growing and, and, um, becoming the better version of myself, at least personally. I know some people, uh, thrive with that, but I personally don't. Um, so my question, the first question would be, uh, maybe later I'll ask another question. But my first question would be, how do you, um, deal with the sort of need for that stimulation, need for using, uh, whether it be alcohol or the drugs, uh, to, um, you know, uh, manage your symptoms, manage your difficulties? your, um, problems, you know, cognitive dysfunctions and stuff like that. I'm get— I hope the question makes sense.

Oh, absolutely. I followed you 100%. Thank you so much, Shady, for that question. Uh, I love the terminology you used, this internal dilemma. As soon as you said that word I knew exactly what you were talking about. The battle's in our head. The battle's in my head. Always been in this head. I know what's right. I can't always do it, like I said. And I know— and I think you made another— the long-term sustainability, right? It's like, I know I get this instant gratification, and I, I believed at the time that, right, I, I was able to connect and, and do all those things. But the problem was it wasn't long for me. it wasn't long-term sustainable. And the also was, we, for me, was the idea that for every— there's a positive and negative of using. There's the high, but then there's the low, right? There's the lack. It's like your body has a temperature, right? Um, is— I've heard a doctor locally talk about this a lot with the opioids. And that is we have a body temperature of, you know, for opioids. So I'm going to sort of use that here. And what happens is, let's say it's, you know, 98 degrees for like a normal temperature, you know, and but then, you know, I'm cold, so I do some drugs and before I know it, I'm at 100 degrees. But then, so it seems like I'm nice and warm, I'm in tune and all that. But the problem is, is when I come down, I drop down to 95. Now I got that extra low and I got to get back up and I can't, and I can never— I keep chasing that, if that makes any sense. So what the point is, the point is it's not— I like what you were saying, it's not sustainable. So I had to accept that. I had to accept the long run. It took me a while. It took me a while. I struggled for 9 years in and out. It's not something that I just flipped the switch and said, oh, I got it, you know, hey, I got this covered, it's no problem, piece of cake. I'm moving on. No, I kicked, screamed, I tried everything. I tried everything, but nothing worked. Everybody else could do it. You, you mentioned that there's other people they can use, and they still function. They still go to work. They still do everything. I had a best friend. We'd drive to school together. We'd get high together. He'd go take a chemistry test and he'd ace it. I'd have gym. I'd skip and go sit down and do more drugs, right? So it just— it Um, everybody's different. So my, you know, and all I can do is share. I, you ultimately, you have to make the decisions for yourself. But what I see here in you is, is an individual that's very intelligent, very attuned. The words you used of, like I said, the internal dilemma, the things, the awareness, you were answering your own question. I, I don't have to give you any kind of answer. You answered it. It's it comes down for accepting, accepting what the answer is. And I think it whether it was you know my drug addiction, whether it's my ADHD, whether it's my codependency, whatever's going on in my brain, my my emotions. It's accepting. Okay, this is where I'm at. You know, this is where I'm at. But I don't have to stay here. And and how can I do it? So your second part of the question was how do I get stimulation to? For me, it took a while to figure it out, but what stimulates me most— I'm a very active person, right? So one of the things, along with my very active brain, I'm very active physically, right? So I have to get exercise. I have to get outside. I have to walk. I have to do different things. I played lots of sports throughout my life, and they changed as I got more seasoned. You know, I played, I played the, you know, the softball. You know, and the great ADHD excessive person I was, even sober, I was playing softball 3 nights a week because one wasn't good enough, right? So softball leagues, all, you know, all interacting with people, making commitments. I think one of the great things is making commitments. They feel uncomfortable, right?

They—

I don't want to make those commitments, but when I do now, I'm forced to get outside my head, go help somebody else, help another organization, be a volunteer. Do something. So those things ultimately I found out stimulate me. Now I'm too busy, right? And that's what my brain wants. My brain wants to be busy. It wants stimulation. So I volunteer. I get active in different things. I do a lot of different activities. I'm in a bunch of different groups. Then I, for relaxation, one of the things that worked for me, maybe a bicycle will work for you, but for me a motorcycle works because half my brain shuts off. when I'm on my motorcycle. And it— half the brain takes care of the driving, watches the road, makes sure I'm safe. And the other half of my brain— don't know which, if it's left or right, maybe other people know more than me— can just, can just be. Can just be. And that's what it really— that's what I'm saying. It brings that same calmness that the drugs did, right? It just all of a sudden It just—I'm just there. I'm going down the road. I'm smelling the smells. I'm seeing the sights. I'm enjoying the wind in my hair. You know, I'm just there. Nothing else matters. So, so I hope those are some of the things that that help you. But but keep on this journey, man. Connect with me. I love hearing your journey, like I said, and I love hearing the words, the descriptive words you use because it told me that you are in tune with yourself. But just like learning to play an instrument, you're an instrument. And as you learn to play it, you're gonna fumble and you're gonna be out of tune for a while. And you're gonna, you know, get a couple notes and then you're gonna lose it. Then you're gonna get a couple more notes and you're gonna lose it. But eventually, my friend, you will be writing your own symphony. And it'll be your life. So don't give up. Keep coming back. You're awesome. I Thank you so much. Any other questions out there? Any, any thoughts, Val? All right, how about any of my friends down in the room? Would any of you like to join us? Do you have any questions? Is there anything? Hi everybody, I see we got more people joining all the time. Keep sharing the room. Hi everybody, I'm Paulie. I'm a grateful person, long-term recovery. From the diseases of alcoholism, drug addiction, living with ADHD, and codependency tendencies. And you're in the co-occurring disorders sub— or the ADHD Rise extravaganza, let's just call it for right now, right? Because the brain just locked there. I don't know if anybody ever gets that, but we're, you know, in this ADHD Rise month, I'm going to be covering all kinds of stuff. I'm going to be sharing all kinds of stories. I got other rooms coming up on, on ADHD and, and parenting. I'm going to be assisting with ADHD, you know, and just entering recovery. Shady, I think you're going to really— maybe that wouldn't be one that help you. And we'll, we'll talk to you about the foundations of recovery, you know, what are the foundational principles, how do we get started, whether we're recovering from drugs or alcohol, whether we're recovering from our own mental wellness challenges, whether we're coming recovering from trauma, whether we're recovering from dysfunctional behaviors, the principles— here's what I found out— the principles, the foundational principles are still the same. You start out as, I got to get honest with myself, I got to be open-minded for all the different options and opportunities that are out there for me to get healthy and well, and then I have to choose one, and I have to be willing to take that That direction, you know. So those are— there you already got, you know, that's just a little microcosm of the great things that you can learn if you join our community and, and follow us, follow Val, follow me. And, uh, we will just continue, continue to bring you value. Uh, one of the things I do for my ADHD— I don't know if you can hear it in the background. Can you guys Can you hear my music in the background, Val?

No, no, I heard it when we—

I can't hear it now.

Probably if I don't talk so much, right?

But, uh, not possible, we're ADHD.

Right, exactly. I turned it down a little bit. I didn't want it to be too distracting. But, you know, one of the things I do for myself to calm myself, the anxiety Is I'll have, I'll have piano and, and soft music in the background, you know. It all, it just, it's there. It just helps me to focus and stay centered. Jelena, my friend, how are you doing? So glad to see you again.

Hi, Paulie.

Um, I know, I figured I would come up and just— I loved everything you said, Paulie. There was so much. Every time you talk about your ADHD and your Addiction connection. It just is like me, 110%. I was just thinking of something that I find super interesting, and I'm sure everybody also does. I know we've all talked about like the body keeps the score, but I just think like the statistics, and I'm not going to say them because I'm awful at numbers, like I said in the other room, but the connection between ADHD and childhood trauma And addiction. And, um, and I know like for sure, like one of the, one of the statistics is like people with children with ADHD are like 4 times likely to have family members also diagnosed with ADHD. Um, and, and other, uh, you know, co-occurring disorders as well. Uh, but that in the substance abuse connection. Is just huge. I love digging into it. Like I said in the other room, I hate repeating myself. I don't know who was there and who wasn't. But I know that one of the things that I've been super into is that whole family systems thing, but how the generations of it have been affected. And I just can't think— the fact that we are able to have all these tools and resources at our hands, even just Clubhouse, Um, to deal with all of this shit, the ADHD, the substance abuse, and you know how this community on Clubhouse is just insane and how many people we know that have become sober on Clubhouse and then realize the connection they've had with the ADHD and codependency. Um, it just— I keep saying, um, I'm sorry, you guys, that's really bothering me. Tick. It is just such a fascinating connection to see, to see, or it's just so fascinating to see how it connects. And I try really hard not to look at my parents as the culprits of this because they didn't know what they didn't know, right? But just to see the outcome of all the things that I struggle with, I'm assuming a lot of you do too, which definitely were handed down to us through our family systems. So I just— I'll be quick, but I also started using drugs and alcohol at a really, really early age. I was 13 years old, but I realized that I was fucking amazing on drugs and alcohol. People loved me. I was funny. I was witty. Everybody wanted me at their parties. But I did notice that I didn't connect with humans easily on a— I was— it was a very superficial Connections and very super superficial relationships in general, because it's ADHD is hard to make those connections with people. And it's you know you when you find the people that are going to be your people, they know your brain value. You had talked about that object permanence not remembering people, and you know having those connections. Were really hard back then, especially not knowing what I didn't know. I just really didn't think I cared about people. And then I would drink, do drugs, and everybody was my best friend. So it was the one way that people knew I cared about them, um, because it was the only way that I was able to be vulnerable. And, you know, that got me through a good portion of my life, unfortunately. Um, ah, there it is again. So I think that's it. I, I, I There was a couple other things that you said, but now I forgot. I should have written it down. Damn ADHD brain.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Jelena. I honor you. Awesome, great sharing, uh, great information. You know, some of the things you brought to mind are so true. I've been fortunate enough, like you said, to be in recovery a long time, come from the Stone Age almost, it seems like. Because today, it's never been a greater time to be in recovery. There is so much information. There are so many resources. It's fantastic. The challenge today is, is being resourceful and to make sure you're getting the right information, right? And you're able to digest that information and use it, right? There— because, right, you, you pointed out so many different connections. Now we're finding out. So many kids, whether the drugs and alcohol increased the opportunity for a mental health challenge, or if the mental health challenge was always there before the drugs and alcohol, which is probably my case. A trauma, you know, right? We're finding out what trauma involved in— yes, I had childhood trauma due— I was a very sickly child first couple years. I've had my tonsils out twice. Everybody said, like, how could you have your tonsils out twice? Ah, it's called tonsil tags. When you have them out when you're 4, they grow back a lot of times, right? So, and I was in and out of the hospital, right? So how am I supposed to— every time I did that, they addressed my physical illness, right, that I was going through and the challenges, but nobody back then, we didn't know to address what was going on in my brain, the mental challenge, the The shame, the guilt, everything that was going on. How do I explain to my friends why I was in the hospital? I was embarrassed, right? You know, so all that all plays in now, which is great that we're learning those things affect us, right? The traumas, the experiences, the way we interpret things. And especially if we're, uh, you know, ADHD or, or some kind of non-neurotypical, right? We take it to the extreme, right? Everybody was gonna judge me. No, you know how long— who carries this one? Who carries— man, who's carried this one for years? If they only really knew me.

Yes.

They would like me.

Yes.

Man, you don't know how long I carried that because of my childhood, because of the experiences, because nobody And I don't blame them, right? I love what you said. I love what you said, Jill. They didn't know what they didn't know. I had good parents. They weren't bad. They were naive. And they were smarter than their parents. And, and I'm sure my grandparents were smarter than my great-grandparents because everything has evolved so fast over the last 100 years, right? So it does me no good to blame, shame, or guilt them, right? It's not. It's the— it's about— for me, it's, it's about understanding today and taking these things and, and then digesting them with somebody, you know, with a, you know, a mentor, with, you know, professional help, you know, that I've also sought out in my life. And I encourage people to find those people that you can trust and then work through it. Because what's it matter? What that does, it gives us a library. And you're going to hear me say this a lot. Is we have this library, this encyclopedia of experiences now within our own lives, within the people in this room, and all together we, we just have all this information that we can use to be the best person today, right? To, to rise up, right? We can use this information and we rise up. And not only do we rise ourselves up, but we rise up our families. We break the cycle, right? My kids don't have to have the same cycle that, that I went through. I, you know, I would— they were able to benefit from my losses, my shortcomings, that my parents' shortcomings, right? And I— and my— like you said, my father was a great man, but he was a terrible communicator, very black and white. I knew that, so I made sure I communicated with my kids and that things weren't black and white. We talked about the gray area. We talked about the, and we continue to talk about the gray areas and work it out together. And I accept them for who they are, and I love them for who they are. So it's it's great share. You got me going, Jelena. I appreciate it. You inspired me. So thankful for that. Win win! Woo hoo! Get something you want to share, Val?

Oh, sure. Yeah, I— gosh, Polly, I just drink up everything you say. It's like this beautiful nectar of just like— I was like, I want you to be my dad. I want you to be my— I want to be in that. Like, I want that love. I want that acceptance. That's amazing. And, you know, it's so awesome, right? I'm like, it is so amazing to, you know, have that, that guide and that experience to, um, look and share and you know I know it's really easy I know like Shady had shared some things and then Julina had shared her story as well and and Polly touched on a lot of his story and it's like I just want to say this for anyone who's out there that's feeling that that feeling right that that ick I mean I know for me when I was in my addictions addictions I had me all over me and I couldn't see beyond that you know I couldn't see beyond the ego the The shame. God, I couldn't even look people in the eye, you know, and it's really easy to look at. I'll just use myself as example. Like look at my outsides and be like, oh, there's no way. You know, there's no way. But you guys, when I tell you I was like a disgusting dumpster alcoholic swallowing pills, I didn't even know what they were. You know, eating disorders, cocaine addict, people pleasing, living in the backseat of my car, keeping up with appearances, like all the. Right. And the worst part of it was that feeling I had in myself, that feeling of like, oh my God, I can't even stand myself. I was too coward to commit suicide, but I hoped I would die, you know, and it's really easy to take a look at, you know, chapter 12 for me. I'm in my 12th year of recovery and go, oh, well, she's got it. She's got it all together. But believe me, I do not forget a single day and I hope To God, I'll never lose that gift of desperation of remembering what that was like to, you know, not even be able to go in a grocery store and look people in the eye because I was so ashamed of myself, feeling like I would never be worthy of love or, you know, knowing that my credit score was so bad that I couldn't even, you know, anything. I had like given up everything in my life to satisfy that craving for more. And the crazy part about that is I truly believe a lot of ADHD people, a lot of people who are neurodiverse, are self-medicating one way or another, you know, drugs, alcohol, food, sex, love, Clubhouse, you know, like Instagram. It could be so many things, gambling. It shows up in different symptoms. But, you know, we medicate because we seem to have this underlying feeling of not being good enough. And I think that, you know, that's a huge ADHD trait. I want to highlight for anyone who's newer, newer, and just know that, you know, these things, yes, there's shame around it. No matter what addictive behaviors you have, there will be shame, but the shame doesn't have to drive your decisions. The shame doesn't have to rule your life, and there's power in connection and community. And please, you know, hop on, you know, connect with Paulie offline if you, you know, are feeling called to. Definitely connect with him offline and know that you're not alone. And there's hardly anything you can share with one of us up here that we would not already been there, done that, or heard about. So I want to just emphasize that for anyone who's feeling that, you know, that shame or that guilt around it.

I love you. All right, great stuff, right? I think you're right. Everybody's running. We're all running to something and running from ourselves. And, and So thanks for pointing it out, Val. I hope I get this right. Dayanara. Dayanara.

Dayanara. Yeah, I know, just call me Dee, everyone, because— all right. Yeah. Um, hi, my name is Dayanara. Um, I was just in the last room too. Um, I wanted to come on here and, and ask— actually, Val was like on the topic. About shame and guilt, and you know that embarrassment feeling. I seem to get that a lot, and you know I just wanted to come out come on here if if I may ask. You know how do how do you guys or any of you guys deal with or what do you guys tell yourself? You know when there's like an embarrassment situation, you know I easily get embarrassed. Like I was telling you guys in the last group how I was in a class this morning. And, you know, I get really uncomfortable in those situations where in social settings and, you know, yeah. So in the class, like, I feel like, you know, all the attention was drawn towards me because I have like this awkward— I feel like I have like this awkward, you know, thing about me and where I feel like, you know, I'm either talking too much, talking too little, not making eye contact. not making enough eye contact, making too little eye contact. And it's like, I'm noticing all these things and I can't focus, right? I, I— so I'm just like so focused on my body language, you know, all that stuff, and I end up ruining it anyway because I'm so focused on it. So it's like, what do you got— what do you guys do in that situation? What do you, um— if anybody, if anybody can answer, you know, what, what type of advice would you have All right.

A great question. I got a simple acronym that works for me. It's called KISP. K-I-S-P. Keep it simple, Paulie. Come to understand, we talked about, you know, I brought this up. My brain is, is a racer, right? It's, it wants to be stimulated. It's finding stimulation, and it will find stimulation in Any way it can. So what happens is I have a thought such as that. I walk into a room, you know, I spoke and just blacked out because all of a sudden everybody's looking at me. Everybody's, you know, and the palms start sweating and everything, and then my brain just shuts down. You can't say a word.

What?

You went out, Paulie. We lose him? Dana, Daenerys. D. Yes. Thank you for that, by the way, because I was really trying in the other room.

Yeah, thank you so much.

You know, when I was working with the airlines, um, as a supervisor, you know, it's, it's— I was intimidated in those meetings. They were— it could just be something normal. And for, you know, meeting-wise, what I found, and because it came up in my yearly evaluation was to carry a small little flipbook, you know, with little papers on it. And what I would do, actually, sometimes I'd have a legal pad in front of me and I would just write. And then if it was really important, I'd circle the idea and I'd wait for the question and answer time. There was usually question and answer time. And that put my anxiety levels so low because I knew I was gonna be able to ask my questions. They're gonna be later. And my mind is active. It's writing. It's writing down my fears. It's writing down the questions. It's writing down my awkwardness. You know, no one's going to see the paper. You could throw it away after the meeting and rip it up if you want. But those are the type of things that I do to try and quiet my mind. I know that that's just something that works for me.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I do tend to do that too, as well. Like, I I journal a lot and stuff like that. So yeah, that's it. That's great advice. I'm, I'm gonna bring a notebook next time because, you know, this class was mostly like— you don't see anybody taking notes. And like, this is the second class. I didn't even think to do that, and I'm always doing that. So that— there goes the ADHD brain again, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm all over the place, and it just, it just seems like unrealistic to, to just find that, that quiet, calm mind, and I feel like I'm making everybody else around me anxious. And so like everybody's anxious now, not just me, everybody. And it leaves the room like in this like hectic— I don't, I don't even know how to explain it. Like it's just, it, it's nuts.

No, I understand. I think that's what my employer was trying to make the point of, because they would year after year, this would come up on my evaluation once a year. And I was like, I mean, everything would be fine except that one little area about meetings. So, um, I definitely relate to it and it's, it's helped me out immense. And I think you just said a secret because you mentioned that, oh, I should have been taking notes through this whole thing. And that's of course not necessary because this is our free time. But yeah, you know what? I've got a little pack of paper right here and that's what I've been doing the whole 2 hours is taking notes.

Yes. Yes.

I want to be able to filter out the stuff that we don't need, and it helps me focus on your needs, and that's what I'm here for, right?

Oh, thank you, Catherine. And Paulie, if you're listening, if you're back in.

I'm— am I back?

Yeah.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

All right, well, thank you, Catherine. Those were great, and I love what you were saying about notes and flash your mics if any of those people of you that are taking notes have doodle marks also, right? Ooh, I love those doodle marks. Little drawings, you know, because that helps me relax too when, when a subject— when I get, you know, distracted or whatever, it just, it's, it just half the brain is sitting there doodling, but the other half is paying 100% attention to what's going on here. So fantastic stuff, Catherine. You want to keep sharing with us?

Okay, sure. Um, you know, this room is talking about co-occurring, or what we would call in the mental health field dual diagnosis. Um, and, you know, we— I know for myself, my journey started in Al-Anon. I was, you know, I didn't understand codependency right away, and then I learned about it. And then I wanted to know more. So I wanted to know more about addictions. I had visited AA and realized that they used to kid me and say, well, you're— you— one can of beer and you'd be toasted. And I'm like, yeah, you should see me at 3. I'm the cheapest date you ever had. You know? You know? So, so it was like, really? 3 cans of beer? Are you freaking serious? And not that— I was like, yeah, but I loved the 12 steps because I learned about them. you know, in Al-Anon, and I come out of abusive relationship, and I learned about them, and it really changed my life so much that I wanted to study addictions. So my associate's is in addictions, but I have full disclosure, I am not a counselor. I am not certified. I went into the airline industry instead, which is really funny because I really believe the universe wants us to be happy, and I felt so grateful to have that career. But getting back to addictions, I actually I worked at a chemical dependency unit. I was the unit secretary. So I'm studying it, I'm seeing it, I'm hearing it, and I'm feeling it. So it was like every day I was learning more and more about addictions and the different levels and the different addiction cycle and the things that they, that they'll go through, or the things that in my journey that I went through with food. You know, I didn't realize that I was eating emotionally. You know, I think that was kind of an Oprah thing. She kind of cloned that, you know, and said, Yeah, I'm an emotional eater. And later on as an adult, I, I was, uh, I understood that. So I kind of took a look at that. And, uh, about 3 years ago, I started a journey on weight— not weight loss, but just trying to be healthier, you know, just getting out there for my mental health and walk once a day. Um, that turned into, you know, uh, getting healthy and maybe not stop Drinking the pop, you know, all that sugar. And then that turned into, you know, more exercise. The next thing I know, I pick up personal development and I've lost 70 pounds. So I know it's 2 and a half years later and I've still kept the weight off. And every day is a struggle with sugar. And do I have bad days? Sure. Do I have good days? Sure, you bet. But to me, my life right now is one day at a time. So that's what I got, Paulie. I hope it's good for you. That's where I am.

All right, that was fantastic. You know, you made a great point. I think true health, true recovery— just my opinion— is whole health, whole recovery, right? Our mind, our bodies, and our souls, right? It— because for me, for me, it all plays in when I'm eating terrible. My brain's going crazy when I'm not getting exercise. My brain's super active, you know. So all those things play in. Or if I eat a really heavy, heavy meal and I feel exhausted, man, then, you know, then I— the negativity sets in. See, they all play together. So thank you, thank you so much for bringing that up. Uh, Christina, somebody who knows about whole health, someone who knows About mental wellness and substance use challenges.

Yeah, I'm loving this conversation. If you're not following her, follow her.

A lot of, a lot of knowledge with Christina here.

Can you hear me?

I can hear you. How are you doing?

Oh, okay. Oh, wonderful. I only have— unfortunately, I couldn't stay to begin with, although Val, I did reach out to that boundaries thing. That we were talking about. I wanted to respond to Dee, and there were such good solutions. And I want to just share about addressing your nervous system and your autonomic nervous system. And like Polly said, it's attached to food, it's attached to drama, it's attached to all kinds of things. But the ADHD brain actually struggles to effectively grab dopamine. And hence the self-medication route. I know that I've shared spaces with Val and we talked about, you know, somewhere in the upwards of maybe— statistics were saying that 40% of people in recovery have had a dual diagnosis, and I think it's actually quite a bit higher. My background is in codependency, although I am in recovery for 25 years now. And I, and I think that it is that the pre-work that can happen for anybody who has this diagnosis is getting a little nervous system hygiene kind of plan. You know, I've got one listed, but it is starting to understand the way that dopamine and then serotonin, oxytocin, and endorphins play in our brains. And, you know, the whole world runs on dopamine, whether they have found themselves in alcohol and drug issues. You know, I believe that codependency is one of the things that we're treating through that, which is childhood trauma. But there is a way to start learning how to embody yourself, which your— our ADHD brains, I should mention, I've Been working with neurodivergence starting with my son's diagnosis 16 years ago, and the, the brain is different. So understanding that shame has no place in the fact that your brain behaves differently, and it's still our responsibility to figure out how to heal some of the nervous system. Release some of the trauma, and have a daily you know commitment to learning how to sit with serotonin, oxytocin, and vasopressin, and all of those things when you're not in the middle of you know searching for that dopamine. Because what we know about dopamine is the minute that we catch it, the minute that we catch what dopamine. Allows us to go for, it goes away. And so here's this, you know, kind of sneaky little trap that, oh, getting the dopamine is of course incredibly important because it allows me to operate in this world, but it also diminishes the here-and-now chemicals, which is the serotonin and the, you know, oxytocin and the endorphins. And so just exactly what Paul said, it is a whole body healing. And, you know, as far as whether you are labeled or have assumed the label of having an addiction issue or not, these kinds of healings work for everyone. With a, you know, neurodiverse brain. I know that when I work with families and there's an ADHD diagnosis, it's very easy to think that this is an attention problem because it's in the actual name. But that is not what it is, because people with ADHD can pay and focus, pay attention and can focus hyper. Hyperfocus on what they love. It is not an attention deficit. I doubt we'll ever rebrand it, but it's an executive function issue. And as the other thing from a sociology standpoint is to understand that there are more and more people with neurodiverse brains than ever before, because it is y'all's brains. It is my brain that is going to bring us into to the next era of releasing trauma and becoming better. And so I think that the more you show up here, the more you focus on your nervous system, the more, the more emphasis that's put into mental health and autonomic nervous systems and central nervous systems and food, the better we start to understand that we not only We have a place in this world. The world needs our beautiful brains exactly as they are. So I love, I love that, that this room is here. And I hope, I hope I can participate. So thanks so much for letting me speak, Pauli.

Well, it was my pleasure, all of ours pleasure. Thank you for that fantastic information. I think it goes back to acceptance there, right? Trying to learn. And, and there's some days I still don't accept myself. I'm going to be real blunt honest, and I've been at this a long time, and some days it's just not fair, right? It's just not fair. But what you just said earlier about it's an executive function, right? Right. You know, it— that's just the way it is. I, you know, I could, uh, you know, end up with arthritis in my wrist, right? I Complain how unfair it is, but it's there. It's a physical you know thing. So same with my brain. My brain is just has there's certain physical traits to it. So that's where the acceptance, the understanding, and from there we can work on everything else. Thank you so much for pointing it out, sharing that information, and you know she does the recovered life. If you if you're not following Christina, please follow Christina. Check out her rooms in the Recovered Life. The information is absolutely fabulous. You will not regret any time there. Thank you so much, Teresa. Teresa, how we doing today?

I'm doing all right. So I was listening. I think. Catherine was saying that there's so many other ways, or someone else was talking about there's other addictions, and I have— I used to have an addiction to food, and sometimes it can come back on me where it's like, oh yeah, I really like this. And sometimes I just stay away from particular bad food because I know that I can't eat eat just one Lay's potato chip as the commercial is, you know, because I gotta eat the whole bag. And then, um, social media is like, if I get there and I'm not intentional, I'll be scrolling and scrolling, and it's like, what, what time is it? It's just like— and I don't know what's going on there, but, um, before social media, I used to play games on my computer that were mind-numbing Just spider solitaire. I mean, and it's just a time waster. And it's like, I don't— sometimes I just don't know why I couldn't use better use of my time, you know. And so I'm glad that you have this room because I think there's— there are other things, like Catherine said, I dealt with a lot of anxiety growing up. And I had— I heard— I had heard that sometimes when you have ADHD, you don't even know it, especially in women. And I was just accommodating myself to be in the neurotypical world by matching my notebooks and folders by the same color, by putting the subjects, you know, in junior high, thinking I was just doing the right thing, not knowing that this is This was a tool that I was using to manage what I was having problems with. And when I was in college, I would procrastinate until the deadline for my paper got closer. And I was like, why am I doing this? But then I would excuse myself by saying, well, deadlines are what motivates me. That's why I picked the career of journalist, though I didn't stay in it very long. But I'm— It was just like I was propelled to get things done as, as the deadline was getting closer. And to be quite honest, the book that I participated in, I waited until the last gosh darn minute to finish that chapter, got it done in 3 and a half hours, got somebody to watch my son with autism because— and it's like, wow, look at you, Teresa, you got that done in 3 and a half hours. Now, I don't know if the The chapter would have been any better had I had more time to do it. I probably would have overthought it and been rewriting it all over the place. So I don't know what's right or what's wrong when it comes to how I do the things I do. But yes, Polly, it's all about acceptance. I am accepting of it. You know, I'm not diagnosed yet, hopefully evaluated next month. But when it came to accepting my son diagnosis of autism, um, we just moved on from there. And so that's what I'm going to do with myself. And thank you. I'm complete.

Theresa, if I could say, you just rock. I mean, you were talking about the organizing and the notebooks and the journals by color, and I was thinking, man, you took me all the way back to my childhood when I used to organize my M&Ms when my aunt would have her weekly hairdo and come home. She'd give me a box A little bag of M&M's. You, you're just really rocking it, girl.

I don't know, my teachers just said you might want to try this, and I'm like, because I was a people pleaser and a do-gooder, I'm like, yes, I'll do as you'll say, you know.

I agree. And Christina, when you were talking, I think one of the Most fascinating thing to me in the brain is the executive function. And I've learned so much over the past year about it. It's incredible how it's just completely changed my life. And if you guys ever get a chance to read Dr. Amen's book about the dragon is— I mean, not the dragons, it talks about dragons, but The Brain Is Always Listening. That was an incredibly interesting book to read. It does have a section in there on ADHD, but he He keeps an open mind. And I just, I love what he has to say about the executive function and the way that we sometimes, we, we have these little ANTs, automatic negative thoughts that might pop in and, you know, ways of, of treating the executive function. And I don't know, I've just learned so much. And Teresa, Christina, I just, I love what you were saying today.

Yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you, Teresa, and thank you, Catherine, for that, uh, information. Fantastic, fantastic stuff. I— Ed, you had a couple questions in the chat, and I want to know if we got— if you still have those questions, or what else, anything else you'd like to share with us.

Um, I'm kind of late diagnosed, I guess February of this year. And only because I have kids, that made everything a lot harder. So I'm wondering if people have— so the parenting ADHD stuff is very interesting to me, but also any advice on how to like regulate down when they're getting super excited or kind of also being excitable? And as well as like, how do you— what's— what have you found works to help wind down or relax or kind of like disassociate? Because I kind of find myself, um, not like— there's some really hard days where you're like, man, I really would like to drink, but I know it's not productive or helpful. So what would be— A good alternative. Like, I get working out too, but like, uh, I don't know, whatever you guys have found works. I appreciate the room and the stuff we've heard so far. It's been great.

Well, Ed, thank you for being here. I'll do a couple quick ones, and then if anybody else wants to pop in and share. But I think the most important thing I had to learn is to set some time out for myself, right? Especially being a family man and a husband, and you get going, you got work responsibilities, you're, you're bringing home to support the family, you got to be a father. There's so many roles that you got to play, right? And then you forget about the role playing for yourself, right? The self-care. You, you got to make some time, whether you need to schedule it, however you got to do it. You got to have a space. And you got to have a place and a time. For yourself. And that's what, you know, to get away, because, uh, that I can burn off that energy, can burn off whatever's going on. I can relax, and, and I just, you know, it's for me. And then when I fill my own cup, it's sort of like the, you know, the old adage that they talk about in airplanes— put the oxygen mask on yourself first, right? I can't help anybody if I'm not helping myself, if I'm not in a good place. So it's get myself grounded, and then I'm there for my kids. I'm there for the employer. I'm there for my wife. I'm there for everybody else. So that's my little tidbit. Anybody else want to jump in with something? All right. Val, do you got anything else you want to add to what's going on tonight?

Uh-oh, looks like she's helping other people rise at the moment. Did I disappear again? No, you're still here, Paulie. Oh, all right, all right.

Well, I know That we're going to be focusing on Fridays. I know that. I know there's going to be a lot of rooms coming in on Fridays. I'm sure if you join our club, join this, this house, and follow the moderators up here, you'll be getting information, notifications on all the wonderful things that are going to be coming up throughout the month. Uh, you know, I'm going to be doing some more rooms on Every Friday this month. So please follow me. Please, if you have any other questions, things, ideas, topics that you feel are important, questions that you, you would like answered, areas, information you'd like explored, we can do that for you, with you, and we can all grow and we can all rise, right? Because that's how we rise. I learned a long time ago, man, the best way to help myself was by helping others. I know, and it just— it's always worked out for me when, when I do that. So I'm so, um, appreciative for this opportunity from Val to be part of this Rise experience and this Rise, uh, extravaganza that we're going on this month, man. And, and it's gonna be fun, is exciting. I've already learned a lot today. I was reminded about so many things today. You know, one is there's nothing more satisfying to me than community, and I really truly appreciate that you guys joined our community today. All right, Catherine, you have any last words? I—

you know what, I— the only thing I could think of is just Just one simple little phrase: you are enough, and together we will rise.

Alrighty, alrighty. I love that. I love that. You guys are enough, and together we can rise. All right, so pay attention. We'll see you again, and we'll have— we'll trudge this happy road of recovery together.