ADHD & SEX | Christy Saufley & Summer Christiansen | ADHD Rise | Summer Christiansen & Val Nichols

that they use for the anatomy, specifically their vagina, or their penis or their rectum, you know, and they didn't use those words. So it becomes confusing. If we don't have the language, how do we communicate that with our partners? So I think language is huge, how we use it within ourselves. So be curious. There's another thing that Summer and I talk a lot about is this curiosity piece. And I think with ADHD, curiosity, mindfulness, what is it? What is it? What is the language that we use about our bodies, about what we want when it comes to intimacy? And really kind of Figuring that out for ourselves first before we try to communicate that to others.

Oh, I love, love that. Val, do you have any thoughts on that? Because I know that you, you have your own childhood experience, and I know that definitely impacts how we show up.

Yeah, absolutely. Like, you know, in my experience, and I guess we're talking about sex, I don't know if we need a trigger warning here, but trigger warning for childhood abuse. I'm not really sure how that works. But anyway, um, yeah, you know, like the experience of sex, I like what you just said about, you know, what you think about it, because there was a lot of shame in my family growing up. No, unfortunately, my, my grandfather was very abusive to all of his kids. There was 11 children. And then also, all of us in the other generation, my cousins, me, my sister. And so, sex was a very shameful thing. And then with my mom, she had flashbacks when I was a kid and reliving that experience was very scary. So, I always had this really fearful idea around sex. And I think that kind of, you know, sometimes when, when people grow up with that experience, they can go one of two ways, either very promiscuous or kind of closed off. And so for me, it was like a closed-off thing. You know, I was a very good, quote unquote, very good kid in high school, very innocent, didn't really know, like, you know, my high school boyfriend and I didn't have sex until we got married at 19. And You know, it's like, it was just a weird experience exploring my body, feeling my body, being present in my body was such a— it brought up a lot of stuff for me. And, you know, that was something I needed to look at when I did start getting intimate. It's like, whoa, you know, what I'm believing about this and what it actually is created to be are 2 separate things. So, you know, if anybody's feeling that, that's definitely, you know, that's normal. If you've had that experience, or, yeah, you know, it's just, it's a, it's, we all have a different experience with it. And sex is one of those words that I can say it in this room. How, I don't know how many people are in here. Let's see, 19 people are in here, 21. So each one of us will have a different reaction or a different meaning to the word sex.

So that's, that's so important. Thank you for sharing that. Because I think Our relationship with sex starts when we're young, right? And depending on how we experience that as a child, especially when it comes to sexual abuse, physical abuse, all of those impact our ability to trust someone, anyone in our lives. To be intimate with them, right? So that that shame that you were talking about, Val, is huge, and it becomes a detriment in our ability to communicate those intimate needs, especially when we have been sexually abused. And how do we ask for? What we need when we have been hurt ourselves. That's a struggle in and of itself. And the other thing I wanted to mention is, if you have been abused, you know, in your life, whether you're younger or older, like feeling comfortable to say, no, I don't like that. Having that trust with your partner to be able to say to them, if I say no, or if I say I'm uncomfortable, if I say stop, it means, it means stop. And I think anytime you're dealing with a mental illness, or you've had that abuse in your past, that shame that we feel about our bodies can really stop us from communicating what it is that we really need, or what we want them to stop, or to understand what's going on. Like, I loved what you said, Val, about, you know, being in your body, actually being there. Sometimes trauma takes us outside of our body, right? Being able to be there and be present. That's, that's, that can be a struggle for a lot of us who've had that experience. So feeling comfortable to say no, having that language, asking yourself, you know, what your intention and motivation is when you're discussing that with your partner, I think is also really important. Really important.

Yeah.

What do you think, guys?

Say again, Mom. Sorry.

No, I said, what, you know, the whole, like, understanding your past. And I never say, like, when I'm in therapy, I don't know if you necessarily— and this is just my thoughts on this— like, I don't think you have to go over every crazy detail as much as you have to understand How your experience as a child impacts you and your ability to function sexually in a relationship now. Does that make sense? Like, understand, you need to know how that impacts you right now.

Would, you know, for anyone who is identifying with that experience, definitely, you know, get someone to support you to walk through that, because it can be very scary and very confusing. I mean, I remember like breaking out in hives and not understanding what was going on, because I hadn't faced that yet. And, you know, I was bringing all this stuff into the relationship and into the bedroom that was not— it wasn't— had nothing to do with the present moment, you know, and so definitely seeking help. And someone that can create that safety for you to explore it. Because, you know, there's a lot I don't remember of my childhood. And I've learned that this is very common, you know, especially with being ADHD as well. I don't remember details. I remember the feeling. And there's that book called The Body Keeps Score. That is a very powerful book when I was going through that. And, you know, I remember the feelings. I remember certain things. I remember like threats. I remember seeing things happen. I don't remember every detail. Nor do I need to, right? Like you said, we don't have to necessarily go through each and everything and bring that up, but you get to create healing so that you can enjoy it in the present moment. So thank you for, you know, pointing that out, Christy. That is a great point.

Oh, thank you, Val. That is super important to really get clear or understand those emotions because not only do they impact you emotionally, they impact you physically as well. Christine, you said you broke out in hives. I know a lot of people have physical problems as a result of trauma that they've experienced, and that as well can interfere with your ability to, to have sex, to feel safe in a relationship where you're sharing your body. So I think that's huge. Bessel van der Kolk, his book on The Body Keeps the Score is— I recommend that to a lot of my clients who've experienced trauma when they were young. It's very, very important. He has some really, really good information. It's a pretty thick book, right? I listened to it on tape or on Audible.

Yeah, it's like 14 hours on Audible. It's a really good book.

It is a really good book. And I think the most important thing to remember in any of this is that trauma can take us into anxiety, PTSD, depression. So kind of, we're not in touch with our body. And what's the most important thing, you know, when we're intimate with someone is to be there, right? And when we are triggered by that trauma, we can— we're not there, right? And it can look like we're not interested, or our partner could take that as they don't want it. be with me. And I think that's something that we have to consider as well.

Yeah, we talked a lot about like self-work, you know, diving deep into what it is that is going on inside of you. And, you know, you might have to get to that place where you do dig a little deeper than you want so that you can, um, so you can be vulnerable. I think that's— vulnerability is actually A little difficult for me. And I, I learned to recognize that. And I was talking about this in another room, like, I'm an open book with closed pages. Like, I'm super, um, open, but then, you know, getting too close is actually really difficult for me. Um, I will say that, like, I'm a very, like, sexual, hypersexual person. And so my, my husband appreciates that, which is— Fantastic, because not, you know, sometimes you can't find that, that flow, but it's, it's something that definitely brings us close together because we have developed the language to talk about it. And, you know, I'm able to be more vulnerable. And, you know, there is— Mom, do you want to talk about— we were talking about just the— Um, hypersexuality. Uh, I'm trying to think which one that we were talking about. Um, the, the one article that we read about how some, um, some people are more hypersexual. Oh yeah. And then that's like a relief. That's what it was. It was like you have this peace or calm.

Yeah. It's like it releases, um, sexual stimulation.

Oh, dopamine. The dopamine hit. That's what we were talking about. Yeah.

All of those neurotransmitters, and that is what gives you that calmness, reduces the restlessness that comes along with ADHD. However, and this is another issue, promiscuity, right, or someone that's not being faithful, or the consumption of pornography, that can be sources of relationship strife. Pornography can also be a problem in a relationship. So it's important to keep in mind that they're not a part of the diagnosis of ADHD, but it can be a result of, right, a result of that hypersexuality. So, and sometimes people with ADHD can engage in risky sexual practices. Because of impulsivity, right? And they could also be at increased risk for substance abuse disorders that really impairs our decision-making and can result in sexual risk-taking. So I think those are things that are really important. Sometimes that neurodevelopmental disorder can cause us to be poor listeners, distracted partners, and be forgetful. And I think, you know, along with that hypersexuality, you know, we're just kind of dinging all over the place. But that hypersexuality piece seems to calm us down, make us feel more present, if we can get there, right? Got to get there first.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it is, it's so hard to allow ourselves to be in a safe space. And, um, sometimes we just have to take a step back and, uh, really almost like there was one point when I kind of had to take a step back not necessarily from my relationship in and of itself. Some people may, and just really decide how I felt because I think we kind of run for the, like the shame. Sometimes we run from those emotions and we, and we don't allow ourselves to be comfortable and sometimes the uncomfortable. So yeah, I super, I super appreciate and understand, You know, for me, like that can be difficult, but yeah, thanks. Thanks so much for that. What I'm trying to think some of the, oh yeah, the emotions related to ADHD and sex. So what's happening, um, like before, during, or after, like before, you know, we may be having anxiety or PTSD, so that's going to affect. Mm-hmm. You know, like our quote performance or how we're feeling. And like if we are having sex, but we're we're thinking about we're thinking about you know that we need to go to the store, that we need to vacuum. Like we're so multifaceted that I literally have a million thoughts, and it's so hard to be in the present. So it can be from. Frustrating because you know then you're not allowing that emotional connection, which is super important. It's super important for me. I have to feel like you know you love me outside of our sexual relationship. That you know that you don't just appreciate that, but you appreciate me. And fusing those two together have been really really an important. important part of my own relationship because I need the emotional attachment. I need to know that you like me for more than just having sex with me. And yeah, and that's been something that has been really helpful just to try and figure out how both of you feel, you know, how, how do you feel about it, like expressing like what you want or how you want it, or, you know, any of those things I think are, are super, super helpful. And just, you know, like we talked about, it's having the language. There's a lot of shame, um, around talking about sex in general. And then, you know, if you have other, you know, trauma or experience abuse that has happened, you know, in your past, it, you know, complicates it even more. So having the, the language around Um, uh, how to express yourself. And so, Ma, I was gonna ask you, like, what kind of language, like, what, what can we do to communicate, like, to our partners? Like, we talked about the language, like, what we grew up with, but what about how to express, like, our emotions, like, what we want?

I think that's probably, um, goes along with that trust part. I think whenever we want to have a conversation about sexuality with our partner, there's— I think there's a time and a place. I think when we want to communicate, sometimes the impulsivity part of us wants to do it right now. I think understanding what our intention is, what our motivation is. Is it because we are not satisfied? Is it because we're frustrated that it's not happening enough and we want it to? So I think when it comes to language, we just— we also have to be aware of the safety issue, the trust issue. Is this the right time? Is this the right place? It's the right place. Are we connecting with our partner? So is the best time to talk about sex when you're arguing? Probably not, right? That doesn't create that sense of trust and commitment and doesn't really allow you to communicate well. So I think that's super important, especially when we struggle with ADHD, is to kind of step back out of the fray and say, When is a good time? Is this a good time for my partner? Is it a good time for me? Have I really gotten clarity on what it is that I want and need? So that's the other thing is that impulsivity part can just be based on what you said earlier, Summer, like those emotions. So maybe we're angry about something, or we— The other thing we haven't really talked about is medication. And sometimes medication can impact how sexual we are or how unsexual we are. But having that conversation, having the language— is that partner someone that you can trust? Is it the right time? Is it the right place? Are the two of you in a place where you're calm, where you feel that that peace and that openness between the two of you. Um, probably isn't a good time to have a conversation about your sexual relationship when you're depressed, right? It's gonna cloud that. So I think that those are some important things to consider.

Oh, I'm loving that. Um, before we open it up to questions, Val, did you have any thoughts?

I do. Yes. Um, you know, what you're saying is like, it's gold. And I'm curious to know, um, you talked about that piece. And like, this is something like Summer and I literally like, I'm like, girl, am I normal? Like, what is going on here? Like last week, we had talked about, you know, the whole idea of like, like ADHD and sex. And for me, like, there has to be this emotional connection. I'm not sure exactly If that's like an ADHD thing or whatever, if that's just my personality, but there has to be that like emotional connection. And okay, good. The person that knows me in real life is not in this room, so I feel more comfortable talking about this. But you know that emotional connection and like that that trust in that like like I can't just be sexual with someone. It's like there ha like for me personally, there has to be like this like intellectual attraction. Right. I've never been the type to just like, you know, hang, like be with a smart guy or, or an attractive guy. I mean, like there has to be an emotional and intellectual connection for me. And so when that trust, you said, you mentioned trust, and this is key for, you know, the question I'm asking is like, when that trust is broken, now I don't know how to show up. You know, and there's like, there has to— that trust has to be rebuilt. And like, how do I show up in the midst of that?

That's probably the question of the year, Val, because it happens as I do couples counseling. And I see there's been affairs, physical affairs, emotional affairs, Where they're— where that trust has either been destroyed or it's crumbled. And that other person, when it comes to sex, when it comes to intimacy, trust is like the key that unlocks the door to that in a committed relationship. And if that trust has been broken, there are going to be more problems. Am I still on? I don't— I think something happened.

Yeah, I can still hear you. You're good.

Sorry, I was just like, everything changed on my phone, so I wasn't sure. So how to show up when that trust has been broken, Val, is a new beginning. It's how you and that individual that you're with talk about that trust that has been broken. I would say for most of my couples that recover, From affairs or recover from that trust that's been broken is the partner that, that broke the trust is willing to rebuild the trust, willing to understand that it's going to take some time, that there's going to be some heartache, there's going to be some stepping away from maybe that intimacy. And there is this willingness of the other partner to really redo what's happened in that relationship and to be willing to rebuild the trust. There has to be that willingness and that commitment. So that's the other thing. Is that partner willing to commit to that relationship again? And is the person that's been harmed in the relationship, are they willing, right? They've got to be willing as well. So you've got this willingness issue, this trust issue that has to be rebuilt. So that foundation of your relationship needs to be rebuilt, and sometimes therapy can help that.

Thank you. That makes sense. And yeah, I don't want anybody to think like there was an affair because there was not. But, um, but it's just, you know, that, that piece, like it's that betrayal, that feeling of like, you know, you've lied to me and I don't know, you know, if I can trust you now. And that's a hard thing. So yeah, I think, you know, that willingness, and that's a great point because like, I honestly, I guess I'm sharing a little too much, but that's what ADHD people do. Like, I didn't know if I was willing like a week ago, you know? And so we're, I'm working on that with myself first to get clear. And then we'll see where the other willingness is if we get to that point. But yeah, totally makes sense. Thank you so much for that.

Yeah, yeah, it's feeling betrayed. I think when someone lies to you, like you said, not just someone having another sexual relationship with someone else besides you, there can be Betrayal in multiple ways that destroy that trust, and lying is one of them. And it's you know that willingness to come clean, to say this is what I did, own it, and then start over. Yeah, you both parties have to be willing to work on that, and it takes time. Be willing to. Take time with that relationship. It's not going to happen overnight. My husband and I had an incident 5 years ago, and we still occasionally will revisit that with a conversation, like something triggered me and all of a sudden I just want to choke him again, you know, and then I'm like, what's going on? Again, that curiosity piece, right? What's going on for me? What triggered me? What happened for me to go back there again? And for my husband, that willingness to say, yeah, I'm— yeah, I understand. I know that was hard for you. And say I'm sorry again. They know that willingness to apologize, to listen maybe again. Sometimes with ADHD, we like to talk things out, right? Talk about it. And maybe the other partner isn't a real talker. And that, that can be an issue too. And I really think though, Val, that, that whatever eroded that trust can be rebuilt. I really look at things in a positive way. I, I think it can be rebuilt. And there can be trust reestablished. But just know that it's gonna take time.

Thank you. Oh, that's so good. My mom is so good. You really want to choke dad sometimes?

I already know you do.

That was so hard. I was gonna say it's so hard being ADHD. Like, it's gonna take time. It's gonna take time. That's what people keep telling me. You know, confidants I've talked to about this, they're like, it's gonna take time. And I'm like, but I'm ADHD and I'm also a very driven entrepreneur. So I want everything to happen right now and I want a solution and I want it to all have a bow and make sense. So that I can move forward, but I know that that's not gonna happen. So thank you.

Well, that's that stepping back part, being back and like realizing, okay, this is my ADHD here. I know that. I know I don't want this to take time. I know that it's gonna be hard for me to feel centered. It's gonna be hard for me to feel trust. But, but I want to, right? I want to, I want to really get curious. And I want to be communicating and talking about that, you know, that commitment to trying again, right? Got to be committed to try, try it again. Because it's hard.

Thank you so much. Oh, thank you.

Definitely. Yay! She's awesome, huh? I love her. Um, so yeah, let's open it up to some questions. So people in the audience, if you do have questions, please raise your hand, bring it up. My mom is like amazing, and she has, um— Summer's mom has got it going on.

Summer's mom has got it going on.

Sorry, I had to.

I had to.

Oh, I know you did. Val and I sometimes start singing songs because we're both— we do this like, hello everybody!

So sometimes we do it, we do it together, so it's kind of fun.

So yeah, if anyone would— has a question or a thought, we would love to hear it. Um, and Chris, thank you so much for being here.

Hey, thanks for having this. I really appreciate it. So, um, I love what you said about like, hey, maybe now's not the right time to talk about that, right?

Mm-hmm.

And, um, working with people, I found a bunch of things where I'm very interested in what else you might have. Like, one thing that's come up during COVID for a lot of people is if one of you is an external processor, the one with ADHD usually, and the other one is— needs space and time, but you need to like See and be validated. You can do a Zoom with yourself, and you can record that Zoom and listen to yourself back, so you can actually get it out and listen to it to get a sense of like, okay, what's actually going on here? And that is—I would have never thought of that. So when you're like, okay, now is not a good time, and we're like, but it is. I remember my therapist always say to me like. What is the goal here? I'm like, the goal is to tell them that I hate them. Like, no, no, no. But what is the goal come to be? For this to be discharged from my body. Right? So like, how— any thoughts on like, when you're at that place to like, how to keep the goal in mind for when like you're ready to have the conversation right now in a way? That might not be the most loving because you asked her to clean the house and she did not, and then she had you organize someone else to clean the house. I'm just saying, not an exact example of what's happening right now in my marriage. I'm just saying, whatever. How to actually like woosa when like Val was saying we are not big woosers. We're more like let's clean it up later kind of people.

I think breathing is a really. It's the thing that has saved my life. I like will say to myself, I gotta breathe. Because what happens when we get like super hyper or we get super angry or we are— we feel like it has to be resolved right now in this second. Trust me, I've been there a million times. I will just breathe. I will just do some deep breathing. And I have people look at— well, I've had my kids actually look at me and go, oh, so you're really mad, huh? Because I am like going, okay, I'm just gonna take some breaths. And really, you need the oxygen to your brain to calm down and to think. So if you've ever watched anyone that's gotten really angry, as they breathe, it's this really shallow breathing, right? So that shallow breathing does not equal getting any kind of oxygen to that brain that needs to think through whatever it is they're going to say.

Do you have any thoughts on how to remember to breathe? I'm already in the reaction, like, I don't— how do I start the practice of breathing? Last night I took out the trash, that worked. I just had— but I couldn't like I couldn't stay there in the house and breathe. I had to like go outside to breathe. But like, how do I catch it? How do I start to breathe? Sorry to cut you off. Just want to ask that clarification.

No, I think, how do you remember to breathe? Like, is there really— think about it this way. We don't really know how important our breath is. Until we can't breathe. So the other day I was eating something, and I—you know how you get something caught in your throat and you kind of you know you choke it up or whatever happens? This was kind of so lodged in my throat, I started to panic and I couldn't breathe. And I think it feels that way when we want to say something. Right now. It's like, like, I just have to get it out. Right? It's that— how do I remember to breathe? Well, remember what it's like to not breathe. And remember when you're holding your breath, that physiological feeling of not having a deep breath, like put your hand— Here's how I remember. Put your hand on your heart, put your hands on your stomach, and ask yourself if you're breathing. So what you have to do is go from fight or flight to present moment. And breathing does that, it gets you back into the present moment. So if I'm really struggling, and I really want to talk right now, and I want this to get done right now, I will notice my breath. And so practice. That's another thing Summer and I talked about is practice. Practice it. Practice breathing before you need that deep breathing. Practice it. Tell yourself the next time I'm angry, I want to get this out right now. I am going to put my hand over my chest, on my Chest on my heart. Notice your breathing. Notice your heart beating. Just start to get curious. It really re-engages your frontal cortex so you can start to think as opposed to just feel. Because sometimes just because we feel something doesn't necessarily make it true. So I kind of go there. Am I feeling something that isn't— is this true or is it not true? Curiosity. Anyway, long, long answer to your question, but does that help?

Hello, Kris, where'd you go? She might be at work.

Okay, was in the back channel and it wouldn't let me back. You know how it's been glitchy today. Yes, thank you. I will start practicing. I know that practicing works, but like Val said, like, can it just be now? Because that would be ideal for everything to just be now. And I— because I practice thought work, and now I'm— I can kind of automatically do it, but I can't remember the before times when I was just like, no, you're definitely my problem. And I have no responsibility in this at all, right? Because I've, I've trained enough. So I gotta train my brain to breathe. Okay, it sounds good. You're correct. I'm not arguing with you. I'm just, you know, what about a silver bullet? Do we have any silver bullets? Anyways, thank you so, so much.

I appreciate it.

Wait, what's a silver bullet? Is this another one of these things I don't understand?

A silver bullet kills vampires. I think it's just like a Or a magical pill, something that like just will fix it right now, as opposed to having to like practice breathing and being intentional and looking at your thoughts and seeing how you're feeling and communicating, you know, all the things that make healthy relationships and sex lives. Oh, there's one more quick thing. So like, there's something that you said that I just want to point out, right? Like, Um, there's plenty of marriages like that are healthy marriages where people are having sex with other people consensually. And I just want to make that distinction that it's just when the sex they're having with other people is outside of the arrangement that it's a betrayal. Um, thank you. My name is Chris and I'm—

Thanks for pointing that out.

Okay. Thanks, Chris, for all your wonderful questions. Okay, Brett, how are you?

I'm good. I admittedly hesitated for a little bit to come up, uh, given the topic, but I had a question and I thought I'd just ask it. So as part of my recent, uh, a couple months ago, um, diagnosis, diagnosis of ADHD in my late 40s, um, I also learned the term sapiosexual. Meaning that you're— for those that don't know, at least— that you're attracted to intelligence above perhaps other things. And if anyone can give a better definition, please do. And I assume then conversely you are turned off by lower intelligence. And so I was just wondering if that's— I know that exists out there and it's not only an ADHD thing. I was wondering if anyone knows if that is a Higher than average kind of thing in ADHD land, or just we're just like the rest. Some have that and some don't. So, but Heather, done speaking.

I have an answer.

Mom, do you have any thoughts on on that?

Oh, I I think it's a relatively new term that I don't know. Too much about, but I understand what it means, but how it's related to ADHD would be interesting because I think ADHD people are— can be highly intelligent. So I think finding that person that meets you on your ground, right, is— sounds like that's what's sexually stimulating for you. Would that be true?

Well, yeah, and I think conversely the lack of it leads to, you know, maybe it comes back— if we're all back to the dopamine part, you know, the more intelligence and the more things you do like that, the more that fires. And the less intelligent and the less, you know, the more boring conversations and the things you're stuck in tend to, you know, have less of that. I don't know if it's just that simple tied to that.

I mean, so people with ADHD are I think triple as likely to be some kind of queer. It's an— I can't, don't have the exact stat in front of me right now, but this idea that we see our sexuality different than like Black, white, binary, and ADHD, the overlap on that is very, very, very high. So to not identify within that very black and white, man, woman, yes, no, you know, and finding like, this is how I decide. My partner, if I'm a woman and my partner has a penis, that's how I will make this decision for the rest of my life. And the fact that we question that comes into a lot of the way that our brains work.

I love you, Chris.

I was gonna say, I totally get what you're saying, Brett. Like, this is yes, 100%, absolutely. And this is like my thing, I guess. Oh my gosh, this is so weird to say this. But, um, yeah, you know, like, I definitely like, there has to be, like I was saying before, For me personally, there has to be that intellectual, emotional connection. And for some reason, like, I am just, you know, I am very attracted to intelligence. I'm attracted to drive. I'm attracted to, you know, the, the, um, like, talk nerdy to me. I don't know. You know, like, that's— it is a real thing. It has to be.

I'm gonna turn the song on. Talk nerdy to me.

Oh my gosh, girl, you know all about this. We've talked about this. But like, you know, it's true. Like, I think there is Something about, you know, like, there's a joke that used to happen with all my friends. They'd be like, Val, does he have a big brain? Like, what's going on? You know, like, what's going on in that head? And I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys. But seriously, like, I think that is a real thing, just like a fetish or whatever, that intellect is attractive for certain people. So yes, I totally get what you're saying.

I think we also just pick different things to be attracted to, right? We're just like, yeah, no, I see you're binary and I'm not interested. Like, before I met my wife, I said I was attracted to boobs bigger than my head and mechanical engineers. People are like, you can't be attracted to that, you have to be attracted to a gender. I'm like, that's not how I make my decisions. And I think when we live so much of our life outside the lines that like the way we make our decisions sexually are gonna hit right in there as well.

Oh my gosh, Chris, that is so funny. That was my type too. Like mechanical engineers and tech guys like that. That's my type. And people are like, what do you just date engineers or like really super smart guys? I'm like, I guess, I don't know. Like, is that a type? Because Yeah.

For me, the mechanical engineer specifically, whatever crazy stuff came into my head, they could put, like, they could make for me. And I was like, yes, yes, yes. All the dopamine, all the novelty.

Yes. Brett, are you still there?

I am.

Any comments?

Uh, no.

Yeah.

I'm gonna go take a cold shower though.

Uh-oh. Hello, Catherine, my girl, my wild girl.

Absolutely. Well, I was gonna flip the switch and say, hey, you know, my husband, when I met him, he walked through that dining hall and he had his t-shirt little cutoff on the sleeves on the end and he had his tool belt slung to the side. I was like, oh, Oh, girl, you look like somebody I know. And he turned around, he goes, really? The rest is history.

I love it. That's so awesome. I love the description. That was like— it took me back to like this old movie or something.

I call him my MacGyver.

He's been in the construction industry for 30 years, and he's, uh, he just— I just feel like he can fix anything. But it, you know, you, you— when you get to, I guess, the age that I'm at, it's just so important, heterosexually speaking, to have a good relationship. And you and I both know that begins in our heads, you know, that you and I both know that that's all about that attraction and keeping it going. And I think part of the thing that works for my husband and I is the fact that he is out of town so much, and he goes to airports and he fixes airport bridges, the passenger loading bridges. My career was in the industry for airlines, so it's kind of like I'm still married to it, but he is away often. So when we are together, it's, it's an important focus, and we focus on it because we both love each other and we have for a long time. We're very grateful in our hearts for each other. And I think that's part of it is, you know, we miss each other. And so we only have 4 days together a month, and we pack a lot in.

Woo woo! They pack a lot in, no pun intended. On it again. And I think I might have accidentally over— you should have heard it at the end of Damon's room. I was like, Speaking of the Nooner, it was ridiculous. I'm so punny. It doesn't even— it's like I try to be not be. I don't know. Anyway, so this is really awkward, but Bradley, I can't believe I've shared all this, and I'm gonna see you on Sunday, and you're probably never gonna look at me the same. And hi, my friend. My twin Bradley is here. Can you share?

There's no judgment on my part ever.

Bradley, this is so embarrassing.

Wait, let me say something before, before Bradley goes. See, Val, this is the, um, one of the difficult things about, um, sex is that we feel embarrassed and that we can't talk about it. Like, at some point, I would love for us to normalize the discussion around what we need, how we do things, how we deal with it. And I think You know, that's that's part of why it can be so perplexing and like oh what do I do if I say it? So yeah, Val, don't feel bad.

Everybody else in that congregation has sex, so it's I know it's not even get her, Summer, get her. Okay, let me clarify. Okay, it's not that I'm embarrassed about sex or talking about it. You know, obviously I don't go around just talking about all the time, but like literally I'm gonna see him at church on Sunday and then on Tuesday night we're gonna be in like. Ministry school together talking about the Holy Spirit, and I don't know, it just sounds awkward.

The Holy Spirit wants you to have sex too.

It's all good.

I'll be praying for you, Val, that you let go of that embarrassment because there's none on my end.

Oh, thank you. I love you.

I didn't— you know I love you too, Val. I didn't have any questions because I'm also a fellow late diagnosed ADHD, so right now I'm just doing my best impression of being a sponge. But I just wanted to say thank you so much, Summer's mom, for doing this. This is wonderful. And now we got to see firsthand where Summer got all of her amazing awesomeness from, directly from the tap. And it's great.

Well, thank you, Bradley. That's awesome. So you're Val's twin?

Yes, and fun fact, my mom's name is also Christy. So Val, you better step your game up before Summer kicks you off the boat.

You would never, Bradley!

I was only kidding. I was only joking.

You know I love you.

Bradley!

I think— oh my gosh, I think sex and religion can coexist, but I think that's another conversation for another day.

Oh, that is good.

I will jump in on that one too, because no shame on my end. Me and my wife are both strong believers and Christians till the day we die, and we both have an amazing sex life, and there's no shame there. Like, we're good at it, we enjoy each other, so why not?

I love that we're good at it. That's the— you know, isn't that great? Like when you have that, that trust and that communication, that safety to be able to do that. And those are all things I think that, that we learned, at least that I've learned in my faith, that safety and trust and communication are really important. So we can use those in any aspect of our relationships, but especially when it comes to— Religion. So I have to jump out off because I have some more clients this afternoon, but it's been amazing getting to hang out with all of you. Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Bye-bye.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Christy.

Yeah, thank you guys.

Absolutely. We'll just hang out and see if Gayathri has anything. I know she said she was at an appointment, but Do you have anything you want to share?

Hi. Well, yeah, I'm driving back home. I just thought if you could ask the question on my behalf, it would be really helpful. And also, since Mom has left, so I just wanted to add more points about being sapio or demai, especially how that could affect uh, people with ADHD and trauma history. And I am still figuring out where I am on the spectrum, uh, as, as far as, uh, you know, sexually or, uh, emotionally, uh, in a relationship. So yeah, so it's kind of complicated. So I'm just still figuring out. I'm learning, and I'm learning a lot of stuff. So, uh, the question that I asked Maybe you can just ask because I'm driving with my daughter back home.

Sure. You want me to ask the question that you asked and then I can share about what I shared with you as well?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that'll be—

Yeah, absolutely. So she had said, um, again, trigger— more triggered by sexual abuse or anything like that, you have a moment to step out if you so choose to. Um, she had asked me, she said she's a sexual abuse survivor And she felt guilty for wanting to have sex more than her husband at times. How do we not feel that? And I said, you know, I think for me personally, my experience, it's realizing that because I used to think, gosh, this is so awkward to talk about. Anyway, I used to think that like, you know, the fact that I was more like, I want to have sex more than my partner or whatever, you know, like I thought I would often feel rejected. I'd feel rejected like, what? I am literally dancing around the house in a cute little outfit and high heels and what? Why? You're not even looking at me or maybe it's a bad time or whatever. And realizing that I got to choose that if maybe it wasn't a good time or there's a lot on his plate or there's stress going on or whatever, that I got to choose to not take that personal, which is very hard for people with RSD. Um, you know, and it's not always like easy to do. Like, it's easy to say, oh yeah, I'm not going to take it personal. But then when you're in the moment, like, feeling rejected— and I've been there, like, where I've created a story around whether or not that person is responsive is my value or my worth. Right? And I let that tell me, oh my gosh, I knew it. I'm whatever. You know, like they don't love me. They're like, you know, like I'm with the wrong person because of one thing. But the thing is like, you know, just realizing that, yeah, maybe my drive's different. Maybe my drive's more. And if that person isn't matching it, then just realizing that— this is so embarrassing, but this is what I told her in the comments. You know, realizing that if you are Wanting it, you can just you know take care of yourself if you need to, and you know exploring ways to do that because that is you know I have no shame in. I do have shame. I'm lying. That's a that's a lie. I'm sorry, you guys.

I just like to. It's okay.

This is so awkward. You we all need this. Like we need to get some toys. Get some like explore it. Get some toys and go be sexy for yourself. You know, like, I literally— yeah, like, I sit in my office sometimes in a sexy outfit just because I can, right? Oh well, no one's around me.

Like, uh, you know, it's super complicated for me because, and, uh, coming from a culture which is having so much of, uh, taboo, and, uh, it's, it's, uh, I don't know how else to say, it is kind of awkward to even talk about, or, you know, Communication is far away, you know, I don't know where, which mode I'm gonna find that because we're just, we're still learning. It's been 13 years of marriage and we went to a marriage retreat and counseling and we did a lot of things 2 years ago and we are, well, doing pretty well, but still, you know, it is, it is because of my history and ADHD, it's very hard for me at times and my husband is a neurotypical, I mean, an introvert, so it makes it even harder. So yeah, I, I understand what you're trying to say, but you know, that is actually, um, yeah, it's super embarrassing for me too, actually, even talking about it here. And it's like a litmus acid test for me today. And, um, I mean, self-exploration in the sense, I would say, uh, I'm kind of demi in that one. So I feel like I need the recognition or acknowledgement from the partner. So that's out of my way for me. So yeah, that's why it's super hard and super complicated, but I completely understand what you're trying to say.

Oh my gosh, there's something weird going on on my computer. Oh, I just caused a crash. Yeah, totally. And, you know, I think something you spoke to is important to be aware of as well. That you know some like people's love language are different part about you know when you're talking about your husband being an introvert and you know I know for me like I'm a very verbal person I like to communicate my love language is definitely like you know words of affirmation and you know being summer words of affirmation and like connection and like you know I want to be. Talked to. I want to talk dirty and do that. But if you're with someone that's introvert, that's not comfortable in that, maybe they're expressing their love and their sexuality through something different. Maybe that's uncomfortable for them. And realizing that if they don't do the same things, maybe just asking for it, as awkward as that can be, don't be afraid to ask for what you want. If that's I don't know, a spanking, or like you want to be talked dirty to. Talk dirty to me. I'm honest, you guys. Sorry, this is not my normal conversation, but like, we gotta talk about it. Hey, hey, I like it when you do this. Can you just do that? And I'm sure that, you know, like, if your husband is anything like most men, like, they want to make you happy. They want to see you have pleasure. So they want to do what's going to, you know, Have you get pleasure. So don't be afraid to just like little by little start asking for what you want or what you need. And then, you know, honestly, like a long-term sexual relationship can be so rewarding if you have those 2 people that are willing to explore that and are willing to go like, okay, what's your, like, what's your thing? What do you like? And then, you know, you can end up having an amazing Incredible next-level experience, you know, if you are both willing to speak up and, um, yeah.

Yeah, you know, I'm just gonna say this quick and, uh, wind up. Uh, I'm just driving, I'm gonna have to stop here. And, uh, yeah, like when I told you that I went to counseling and we went, uh, we, we kind of revamped our marriage and it was amazing. It's such an amazing experience, like, uh, uh, especially when I was like in deep down in my depression and it was so lost and I was in the dark and my— he was just like, he was the light of my life. And I always say that actually that was like even better than a honeymoon. It was such— I don't know what to call that. It was amazing. Like, he literally, he brought me back from my ashes. So I always tell him that even him, he cannot do that again. Or maybe that wouldn't be as spicy as that. So, uh, yeah, like, uh, when you're talking about long-term sexual relationship or, you know, any, uh, marriage or any kind of relationship, um, it is, uh, very, very rewarding at the same time when both the people are committed to, uh, loving each other unconditionally and with, you know,