OCT 25 Karen Happel

Right. But then there's that moment of truth where it's like, oh yeah, I don't know how to actually do this. I don't know how to put it out. So what would you say is the benefit for somebody who, um, to work with someone like you as opposed to just trying to like self-publish or self-promote?

Yeah.

So that's a huge problem. I think just like you described, right? People have this idea that you write a book, you put it out, people buy it. You're done, right? Like, even people who are like, I don't need to make a lot of money on a book, I just want people to buy it. But if you put out any product and you don't market it, nobody's gonna know that it's there. Nobody's gonna know that it's for them, even though they do know it, even if they do know that it's there. So working with somebody like me, I think first of all, figuring out exactly, like, there are different experts who focus on different things, right? Like, my thing is social media. There's another guy out there who really focuses on Amazon ads and stuff like that. And so figuring it out exactly where it is that you want to grow, figuring out what you think your best way of driving traffic to your book is going to be, and finding an author, finding an expert who can absolutely help you do those things. Because what you just described, that content posting paralysis, right? Where you're like, all right, I'm gonna post a lot now, but it's Tuesday and I don't, is anyone interested in my cereal? You know, and it's just kind of this, I don't know what to post thing. And so you'll post tomorrow and then tomorrow never comes. So I think if you, if social media is your focus and you struggle to post consistently, especially because you don't know what to post, You don't know what to say. I think having somebody who can help you figure that out is, um, is invaluable really. And then also the, the little tools that you need to keep going with it, right? Like what are the things that you can do to make your life easier so that your whole life doesn't become consumed with social media? Because that's a big danger too.

Oh my gosh.

I laugh because yeah, that's, I think that's the common mentality. Like, I've been on I've been on Facebook or Instagram or TikTok for seven hours today, but it's like really, are you moving the needle forward? Are you actually like moving? Are you getting traction? Or are you just kind of like aimlessly throwing spaghetti up against the wall, trying to see what sticks? And I think that that's something happens. Plus, there's also especially being ADHD, you know, we can get very distracted on social media and. end up scrolling for 3 hours, realizing that we're consuming and not creating. So I think it is good to have someone, one, for accountability, and two, to help you kind of like focus on what are the important messages to get across to your audience. Because we don't always— I know I don't wake up thinking about the things my audience is, you know, I don't wake up thinking about the things my clients are anymore. But I remember, you know, because we always seem to be serving or coaching a past version of us. And so, you know, speaking to what they want to hear, not what we think is important or what we want to post just randomly, is always a good idea to have that strategy.

Oh, I love that, that we're coaching a past version of ourselves. That's such a brilliant way to think about it because it's so true.

Yeah, absolutely. That's been in my case, you know, I'm always coaching that past version of me. And then I've noticed with my clients too, it's like then they coach a past version of themselves. And it seems to be this really beautiful thing where, you know, because I think the difference between coaching and any other thing that you do, you know, whether if it's therapy or, you know, going to college, doing these things, which I'm not knocking college, I dropped out 3 times, graduated from one. But yeah, like, you know, in coaching, it's more of like, I've been there. And I know how to get you here. So let's do this together, as opposed to, okay, let's read some books, learn a bunch of terms, and then you're going to, you know, then try and apply it. But I think coaching— I mean, I'm a huge believer in coaching. I've been doing it, you know, since 2013, and I've always, excluding one period of time, I've always had my own coach. So I definitely believe in it. And I think that if anyone is in that space of looking to market their book or even get started, definitely reach out to Karen and find out what that process looks like and find out what you need to be prepared for as well. Because there's a lot in marketing and branding for anything, your book, whatever it is, that you may not even think about in this moment. Even if you're just getting pen to paper, it might be helpful to at least get some insight from her. Because there's so much that goes into it. There's so much that goes into bookselling and getting your name out there and branding yourself. So Summer, do you have any?

Oh, go ahead, Carrie. No, it's okay. Go ahead.

I was gonna ask Summer, do you have any questions, Summer, or any thoughts? Are you there? She might have had to step away from.

I couldn't get back to my freaking—

It's being really slow today, isn't it?

Like when I'm in the messages and I have to come back, I'm like, oh my gosh, it's taking—

Yeah. So yeah, I, I don't really have any questions. I just, I love this topic. I don't wanna, well, I don't know. It'd be nice to write a book, but I'm a big, excuse me, I'm a big journaler. So I've always loved to tell a story. I'm a big teller. I'm a big storyteller. And I've also, it's super important to me to document, to document my life, document my children's lives. So I used to do like paper scrapbooking, but I really have gotten into doing most of my designing part of the scrapbook. Scrapbook sounds like such an old word. I hate using it, but my, I've—

It's not.

done most of that on my phone. And like, I have a process that I use and I love having that part of it. Like, part of the process is like the journaling aspect. And I use a specific app for that. And, you know, just adding everything together and telling a story. I mean, I just, I love that and I love writing. So yeah, I appreciate like your place in the industry and really bringing that. Bringing that vivacious love and understanding of it to people like us that like, not like us, like me, who aren't as educated on it, if that makes sense. Boy, I am tripping over my words today, peeps. So yeah, just like, thank you. I mean, really, I mean, I love this. This topic and this, this idea, you know, like branding for authors. I'm not an author, but I totally love— I love the idea of knowing that you have a brand, you know, knowing that you have like that voice. Like they talk so much about, or at least in the stuff that I've, I've kind of dabbled in lately, they talk so much about like what is your brand voice. You know, and what, what are you trying to portray? Like, there's so much that goes into it, including like the colors and the words that you use and how you show up and who your audience is. So yeah, I love, I love all this stuff. I think it's super fun. So yeah, I don't really have any questions, just a lot of like thoughts on, you know, writing and those types of things. So yes.

Absolutely. I think those are all, you know, really great points. And thank you so much. It's, it's been a lot of fun. working with authors. So it's even more fun being able to kind of share that experience with you guys as well. And a lot of those basic marketing principles that you were just talking about, right? Like the colors and the fonts and your brand voice and all of those things translate to what I do with authors as well. So clearly, but you almost have to use a different language, right? Because instead of a buyer persona, It's, you know, what I call a future reader. And I think that that's something that authors struggle with a lot because they can't figure out— it's interesting, right? Because I find that authors are so good at, you know, at least fiction authors, right? They can create this fictional person and make them 3-dimensional and write a whole world around them, right? But then when it comes to figuring out who their future reader is, it's a similar exercise. And yet there's such a block there figuring out who that person is.

Yeah, 'cause it's like personality too. Like you have your own personality that I think, like for me, I wanna bring it into my brand, but also like what do your prospective clients need? You know, what is their need? And you need to make sure that you're fitting that need, but also putting your own flair on it. So yeah, I really love that.

Awesome.

And then, sorry, Val, there's something else you mentioned before too that I thought was really interesting. It's that whole thing about, um, how much time you spend scrolling on social media. And I think especially having ADHD, right? Like, you're right, you can get sucked into that black hole of the scroll so easily. Um, and so one of the things that, that I've done with myself that I've been able to pass on to all my clients is understanding exactly what needs to be done for research versus education versus entertainment, right? Because I can sit here and passively scroll and look at videos of guinea pigs and Pomeranians all day long, right? But like, that's not moving my business forward. However, market research on Instagram is so important for me, not only to understand who my target audience is, but also like what What are people in my world doing that's working right? Like what types of formats are people putting out there that are actually connecting with people, and the the accounts that are doing well and that are growing and have great engagement, right? Like what is it about what they're doing that's connecting well? And you know, like is it you know you start to look at like headlines on carousels and you know the speed of reels and you know what's What's getting that reach on Reels and what's not, right? Like, as long as my mind is asking those questions while I'm scrolling, then I feel like I'm, I'm doing myself a service. But then also, like, I need time to look at the guinea pigs and the Pomeranians too, right? It's just a matter of being self-aware enough to recognize which is which.

I agree. Yes, we do need some of that, like, mindless numbing scroll time. I think, or, you know, just a way to like kind of, um, just unwind and not really like have to think about anything. I know for me and for being an, you know, ADHD entrepreneur, sometimes it's like I have to be doing something. Like, it's ridiculous, but I have to be doing something. So sometimes that mindless scroll is me relaxing, you know? Like, I'm still doing something, but at least like I'm not working or pouring my heart into something, you know? It's like I'm doing something but not necessarily Absolutely.

And I think, you know, I think there's a lot of advice out there for neurotypical people as far as like what to do or to not do. And, you know, from what you were just talking about to like the times of day when you're supposed to be productive and all that kind of stuff that I've learned as an ADHD entrepreneur, right? Like, My brain's a little bit differently. And like, if I structure how I work around how my brain works, instead of like trying to force my brain to do what, like, you know, Tony Robbins tells me I'm supposed to do, or, you know, whoever, right? Like, nothing against Tony Robbins, of course, right? But like, the more that I try to force myself to do the things that help neurotypical people be productive, right? Like, the more frustrated I become.

Absolutely. Which is such a good point that, you know, so many things in the world are kind of built around the neurotypicals. So it's like, yeah, like having a different structure, you know, having someone who understands what— how your brain functions is so helpful. You know, it's a definite benefit that if somebody was going to write a book and they wanted to get, um, you know, a perspective, then Well, and it's helping you lean into—

sorry, Karen. It's helping you lean into, um, what you want to do. Like, I know sometimes, even though I do a lot of writing, I sometimes will have— it will take me like, I don't know, 4 times. Like, I go back and revise and revise and revise, and, and it gives me some clarity.

Yeah.

And I think that's what you're doing. clarity, but it takes a really long time. But I know when I was working with one of my business coaches, I was like, it was easier for her to like put a name on it and faster than I could. So, you know, I was trying to like, you know, do my brand messaging and try and get stuff, you know, more concrete and focused. And, you know, I was trying to describe something and sometimes we overthink it and it's, it's way more simple than we think. And so sometimes working with somebody else and putting it out there, it's actually easier for you to decide how you, you know, what you want, even though you think you know. It's, it's helpful to have somebody else's input, you know what I'm saying?

I completely agree with you. Um, and, and I love those moments, you know, out there in the wild, right, where all of a sudden, like, for whatever reason, ADHD comes up, right? And it's like, oh my God, you too? Oh my God, me? Yes, yes, yes, you know.

Yeah, totally. I think that other people's opinions like that differ from you. Like, I know my husband always has a different perspective because he's totally neurotypical. He's an NFT. Neuro effing typical is apparently— apparently I'm starting a movement. When we were in a room the other day, I said they were talking about NFTs and I had no idea what an NFT was. And I was like, they started talking about it and I finally figured out what they were talking about. And I just had to say, like, I thought it meant neuro effing typical. And so apparently I started a movement. But my husband is very NFT, and he always has a different perspective than I do. Sometimes it's extremely frustrating because he thinks I don't understand him, but really I just don't agree with what he's saying. So I think it is a good, a good perspective, like really. It's a, it's a different perspective that kind of helps you like hone in on what you actually want. So yeah, I love, I love kind of sharing, sharing that with other people. So yeah, Val, I'm gonna turn it back to you, my friend.

All right.

All right.

For anyone who just came in, we are in the ADHD Rise event happening all month long. It has been so much fun and we are in the Business and Brand Secrets Club. If you want to party in the club, come on over, hit that green house up on top. I always say rooms anyway. Like, I don't care if it's a club or a room. I'm always like, oh yeah, the room, the room. So come hang out in my club. This is Club Val, Club ADHD Rise. So come hang out. I have my amazing co-host here, Summer Christiansen. She's an ADHD parenting coach. And then we have Karen Happel here. She is the branding for authors expert. You guys want to get to know her. Hang out with her, get to know her, hang out in her space. She is awesome. And if you guys would like to, if you have any questions, feel free to raise your hands and come on up. We are going to open up the stage if you guys have questions, comments, thoughts. And with that, we'll see if anyone is coming up here. What would I would do? Have a question if. You have somebody who is in the starting place. Let's say that they have an idea. They're like, oh yeah, I want to write a book someday. Someday. What are the things that you would suggest to prepare them to write the book? I know because you talked about how there's a difference between the buyer and the future reader. And I can't imagine that would kind of create a different scenario in content that you're creating and marketing that you're doing. So what would you suggest for someone to start doing now if they want to write a book and maybe just start sharing about it with their audience, getting people involved? What types of tips do you have?

Well, the first thing to figure out, right? Obviously, if it's a nonfiction or fiction book, and that definitely is a big distinction as far as growing your social media following. If it's nonfiction and the book is all about helping people do XYZ, building your authority on social media is going to be so important because you're building that trust factor. You wanna make sure that even before your book comes out, people see you as an authority in your field. And for nonfiction authors, the big thing is, you know, like agents and publishers won't even speak to you unless you have a social media following anymore, which was something that just kind of like broke my heart when I first found out. Right. But before you even write the book, you wanna be, writing a book proposal. There's a book called How to Write a Book Proposal by Michael Larson, and that's usually where I send new fiction— new nonfiction authors before they start down that road. And then, you know, just trying to find those more— the good news is for nonfiction authors, all the marketing experts and all like the Instagram experts out there are giving advice that's going to work for you. Right? If it's fiction, it's a little bit trickier because figuring out exactly what that content is that you should be creating before you've written a book can be confusing. But if fiction is the way that you're going, the first thing that I would say to do is to dive into the author community on whatever platform you choose. Instagram has an incredible author community. I am so impressed by every single one of them. They're the most supportive community that I have ever seen. You know, they're constantly sharing their, you know, work in progress with each other and they're growing networks that way. What I would love to see them do is expand beyond that author community and start looking for that future reader in other places because I think that's the type of following that is going to help you long-term. But if you're just starting out, that's a really good place to get your feet wet and to start getting used to posting because they're so incredibly small.

Yeah, that's awesome. I've heard of, you know, there's quite a few author communities here in Clubhouse as well. So it's awesome to know that, you know, whatever niche you're in, there's something out there in social media that can, like, you can get support, you can get the help, you can do all the things, and it's going to be, you know, creating that supportive community, which is awesome because, um, Yeah, we all just— we need— I feel like everyone functions in more of a community space where you can find people that you collaborate with and you can get that, like, you know, just like the knowledge and the experience from other people as well.

Absolutely.

So I'm curious to know, I'm trying to think What questions I had for you as well. When you talk about the storytelling from the author, do you think that in telling their story, like let's say if they're creating content and, you know, it's always really uncomfortable to talk about yourself. I know this is something that comes up for specifically for ADHD people. We're great at promoting other people. We're great at lifting other people up, being supportive, but then when it comes to ourself, We can often get kind of sidetracked and not really know how to promote yourself. So what are you— what do you suggest as far as like content-wise or being able to, you know, share yourself on social media? What do you suggest for people?

Absolutely. I think also because I work with authors, there are so many of them are introverts or not quite sure what to put out there to the world or private or whatever it is that makes them hesitant to really put too much of themselves out there. So I have an exercise that I do with them where you figure out exactly, you have like buckets of topics that you pull from, right? So you take anything that you are comfortable sharing in the world from your personal life, like whether that is something incredibly relatable to the thing that you're sharing about, or it's something more social, right? Like for me, it's my Pomeranian and my iced coffee.

Right?

And then you have another box that you put anything that you are not comfortable sharing, anything that you— it makes you nervous, or you don't want to put it out there, or it's a little bit too raw, or whatever the reason is, you write that down and you put it in the other box, right? And the beautiful thing about that box is occasionally you might be able to pull something from, from it, and you have this moment of vulnerability. And that is really where the most beautiful connections happen on social media, because you put something out there and you're like, hey, this thing happened, here's how I dealt with it, right? And then all of a sudden somebody hears that and they're like, oh my God, you know, that happened to me too. Or you want to learn from that person or whatever it is, right? The one caveat with that, however, is my biggest warning is don't treat social media like a diary, right? You don't want to just be like vomiting out all of the drama and all that kind of stuff, right? Like if you do share something that, that you feel vulnerable vulnerable about, um, also trying to share the solution along with it, right? Like, this thing happened and here's what I learned from it, or here's how I handled it, or here's what I hope you can take away from this thing that happened to me.

Oh my gosh, yes! I love that point because that's something, you know, that I share a lot as well, is that you can share your struggles But I mean, you know, if you have those like drama things or whatever's going on, yeah, you might get a lot of comments and a lot of like sympathy. But really the empowered place to do that is to share your struggles from, not from the space of the injury, but from the space of the healing, you know, to have come from the other side and been like, yeah, I went through this and guess what? Yeah, I'm human. And sharing that experience that you learned as opposed to just kind of like dumping or word vomiting all over. And then people are like, Oh, okay. She's a mess. And we can share that human side. It's just really choosing, do you share in the hurt and in the pain of that struggle, or do you share from the empowered spot of showing others that it's possible? So, I love that you brought that up.

Absolutely. Just last week, I was so stressed out. I have a lot of things going on right now, right? I'm moving across the country next week. I'm getting out of a relationship. I'm running around. I'm saying goodbye to all my friends. In the meantime, I'm trying to post every day. I'm trying to run my business.

I've got clients, right?

It's all the things. And last week I was just sitting in my computer chair, looking at my phone, knowing I had to post and just not wanting to. I was like, what is wrong with me? Right? Like, why am I not— why is this so difficult right now? And all of a sudden I was like, you know what, Karen, you have a lot going on. Like, it's okay if you feel burned out, right? Like, let your mind rest so that you can reset and keep going. Right. And so that's what my post was that day. It was like, look, like even sometimes I don't want to post, but I have a content library that I have for rainy days. Like, this that I can always pull from, right? So that any days that I'm too overwhelmed or I'm too busy or whatever, right? Like I have this emergency pile of content that I can pull from. And then I asked other people like, if that's something that they've considered doing, right? So like I took the ickiness that I was feeling and I still tried to turn it into a teachable moment.

That's beautiful. That's a great— I'm sure someone here is like, oh, aha, that's a great moment for me to think about with writing out content And it looks like we do have a couple of people up here. So we have some questions. Hello, Andrea. How are you, my love? Oh, Andrea just ducked out. All right. Hello, Christy. How are you?

I wasn't ready.

Oh no.

Darn it.

Oh my goodness. Where did— so Andrea's like disappeared.

Maybe it was a mic thing. Oh, there's him.

There. Okay.

Hi. Sorry.

No worries. I figured, uh, it's been kind of twitchy, glitchy today, so figured you probably stepped out.

I, I'm in the place that I don't want to whine about. Uh, I have bad back, struggling, nasty weather, middle of a nor'easter, all that other fun stuff. But that's neither here nor there. My positive question is as follows. I put together a sort of a narrative of my life, 6, 7 pages, pretty thorough in terms of location and timing, but very little meat on the bone. How do I approach How do I approach expanding on that? Any suggestions? Any— because I'm finding it hard to get the motivation. And then when I sit there and start to think about what's like, well, what do I write about? What's going to be interesting? What's going to be, you know, not even what's going to be interesting, but just, I don't know. How do I— where do I start? Sorry, sounds like a weak question.

No, it's a great question. I think it's absolutely something that so many people struggle with. Unfortunately, the actual writing of the book process isn't my area of expertise. However, it is a big part of the process. And I'd say there are so many different places where you can find book coaches or people who can help you through the next stage. Because look, I sat down and I tried to write my memoir a few years ago, and it was brutal. And I was just like, I can't, I can't continue this. I'm so happy that I sat down and I started this process because it was very healing, right? But like, at least at that point in time in my life, like writing my memoir wasn't, it wasn't the right time for me, right? But I think even if you find some of these writing coaches out there, a lot of them have great information that they're putting out on Instagram or LinkedIn. Um, and that might help you figure out exactly like what the next stage of your outline process should be.

Thanks. And I apologize, typical ADHD. I came into the room, I saw ADHD Rise, I saw authors, I didn't look branding. I wouldn't have asked that question had I, had I been aware, had I, you know, paid attention. Anyway, sorry about that.

No, it's totally cool. You know, we, it is, it's all part of the same thing, right? And the amazing part of the thing is if you are starting your book now, starting developing your social media following as early as now is only going to help you later down the road. And you'll be thanking your, your past self if you're starting to kind of find your following in someplace now.

Thanks.

Thank you for that question, Andrea. Christy, are you ready?

Yeah, I mean, basically, I guess, you know, so I come to these rooms and if somebody asks me to be a speaker, I'm gonna hop on. So here I am. Hello. So thank you for asking me up. So, Karen, you know, that's interesting because I unfortunately, I missed a lot of your presentation because I was in a different room. And I just got here, not just, but a little tiny bit ago. And so I'm not exactly positive what all this is about, but I heard you mention that you were starting to write your memoir. And the funny thing is, I was thinking about writing a memoir just for the fun of it in a way. And then I was like, why should I bother? Who's going to want to read my memoir?

Like, who am I?

Like, I'm like nobody. So I don't know if there's a question in there, but I don't know, maybe you could speak a little bit to that. This is Kristy.

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much, Kristy. You know, from a marketing point of view, memoirs are actually the most difficult type of book to sell to a publisher or even to self-publish. But that doesn't mean that there isn't a story there, right? Like for me, even just sitting down and starting the process was healing, right? Like going through some of this stuff and telling that story was exactly what I needed to do at that point in time. And I had the help. I was on a writing retreat, right? Like I found a woman who, she had this thing in Carmel where you worked with her for a week and she helped you figure out exactly how to put pen to paper and all of kind of the technical stuff that I didn't know yet. And so she was able to help me with that. But she also tried to get me— and Andrea, this might be a good tip for you as well— instead of trying to dive straight into writing a whole book, starting with an essay, right? That's how the book Wild was started. She published an essay on her trip, right? And from that, the essay was so popular. It's the types of things that you would see in like You know, the New York Times has that column, what's it called, about, called Modern Love, right? Like, those are all essays written by people who are just creative nonfiction writers, right? So, like, just kind of starting with more of, like, a bite-sized thing that you can, one story that you can tell and you can perfect and you can really kind of, like, get your writing skills together. That's probably a great place to start as well because I think, you know, sitting down and saying like, okay, I'm gonna write a book today, like, that's overwhelming.

Well, that is— oh, sorry, did I interrupt you?

No, I was just essentially saying, yeah, thank you for helping clarify that. It is overwhelming and coming into a short A little bit, a little bit. That, that's going to be the beginning of it. And again, the question of who's going to want to read it anyway.

Yeah, I often do wonder that because the reason I even thought about writing a memoir in the first place was because I read and listened to Michelle Obama's memoir, which was just incredible. I just loved it. And it just reminded me so much of my— of how I grew up as well, because she's growing up at the same timeframe I'm growing up. Granted, you know, obviously it was a totally different situation, and obviously people are going to want to read Michelle Obama's memoir, and I'm like, like, you know, just some white girl. So anyway, it was just an interesting— Thought. And then when you mentioned it, Karen, I was just like, oh, what an interesting idea. And just, just to sit down and write it for yourself was what I was thinking, because like I said, I don't know who would want to read what I have to say. But, you know, somebody might. And then like you were saying, that's a great idea. And, you know, you can just write an article and see how the article plays out. And then if the article does take off, then, you know, you might actually have a memoir that you could write that you could actually— So yeah, thanks. That's really excellent advice. Thank you so much. This is Christy and I'm done speaking.

Awesome. Thank you, Christy. That was awesome. So I'm curious to know if you have any, um, or where can people get to find you? I know that you are on Instagram. If someone wants to work with you or has more questions, where can they find you, Karen?

Absolutely. I did update my Instagram handle in my in my bio while we were talking, so I feel very proud of myself. So you can follow me on Instagram at theunkarenkaren. My website is karenhappel.com. That's the best place to find me if you're an author and you want to work with me. But you know, you can always just shoot me a DM on Instagram. I'm not on Clubhouse so much, so answer. Instagram's probably the best place to find me, but I have a really active community who I love interacting with. So you can feel free to pop in and say hello anytime you'd like.

Perfect.

And do you have any last advice or suggestions you would give our audience?

I think so. Yeah. So just kind of what Kristy was talking about, right? This whole idea of like, who would wanna read my thing anyway, right? That is such a common thought, not only with writing a memoir, but also on social media, right? Like, who wants to hear from me? And the reality of the situation is we've all been through things, right? And just sitting down and figuring out like, okay, who could my story help? There is somebody out there who has gone through or who is going through something that you have gone through. And I think there, it's just a matter of like taking a look at your own life experiences through a different lens to figure out exactly what that story is that you should be telling. Because I really do believe that we all have a story in us.

Oh, I love that. We all have a story in us. And I believe that, you know, we all have that mission, that message, that purpose, that story that we can, you know, use to go out and share in the world and create a movement. So I love it. I believe everyone has a book inside of them, if not two. You know, I think everyone has a story that they can write and share and just, you know, to inspire someone else. And just like we get to experience in these rooms, you know, that we're not alone. You know, it's that me too thought of like, yeah, oh my gosh, someone went through what I went through. I think that's why biographies and, you know, that voyeurism of like looking at other people's lives and hearing their stories is so magical and magnetic because we get to look at other people and go, oh my gosh, they're just like me. They have the same story. They have similar situations. They have similar backgrounds, or they're both ADHD or whatever that is. We get to share those stories and in those stories and those lessons, there's so much power. So I want to thank you, Karen. Thank you so much for coming here today. Thanks for pouring yourself into this audience. Thank you for pouring yourself into this message and this mission. It has been an absolute pleasure having you here. And gosh, I'm sorry to hear about all the changes you have going on. I, my heart is with you. I know how that goes. I know how that goes. And it's, it's tough when you're trying to, you know, figure things out and you feel unsettled, but I'm really grateful that you made the time for, to come here today and to be with us. So thank you so much.

Of course, I was really looking forward today. So, so thank you for asking me to do this. You know, like all the stuff that I have going on, it's all really positive stuff. So really excited. But, but thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for having me. And thank you for offering so many amazing resources for people with ADHD and making it something that, that people can actually talk about. Because, you know, I think we're all learning so much about it every day.

Absolutely. And thanks, guys, for coming up and asking questions. Andrea, Christy, you guys are awesome. And we will go ahead and close out the room. But remember, this is ADHD Rise. When I rise, you rise, we rise together. Yes, girl! I love that you said it with me because Summer had to jump off.

She had a call. I know she had a call.

She had to get on it right at 2:30. So, all right, guys. Well, we will see you tomorrow back. We will be back at 9:30 AM Pacific time. We will be back with another amazing room. room on ADHD Rise, and we will see you then. We love you.

Bye.

Bye.