THRIVE Show w/John Michael Myers - The Legal Side of The Virus & What Parents Can Do - Val Nichols

Welcome everybody to the Thrive Show where we are creating a healthy lifestyle a thriving business, and a life of intention, even in the midst of the coronavirus. I am so excited today to have a special guest who is a dear friend of mine, an amazing attorney at law. He's licensed here in both Oregon and in Montana. We have today John Michael Myers. Welcome.

Hi, Val. Thanks for having me.

Awesome. We are so excited to have you here because as you probably know, With the coronavirus going on, there's a lot of craziness, there's a lot of fear, there's a lot of really misinformation going on out there. So I wanted to bring you on and really talk to you about, you know, what are you seeing in the legal scene? What are you seeing coming up for people? There's a lot of parents who are working from home these days. There's a lot of parents who have kids home. So what are you seeing in your law practice?

So yeah, just to clarify for your viewers, I primarily focus in family law, domestic relations. So we do a lot with, you know, parties that, you know, have separated, who have parenting plans, you know, different custody arrangements. And so right now with what's going on, especially here in Oregon, the virus is really creating a lot of interesting situations with people. You know, for parents who live in the same community, you know, as well as parents who live out of town, we're seeing, you know, issues with people being reluctant to follow parenting plans. And it's going both ways. I've had clients reach out to me who've said, you know, I, I'm concerned about getting the children from the other person because, you know, my mother lives with me or You know, then there are people who are worried about, you know, should I hand the children over when, you know, my ex-husband's new wife is a nurse? She's in a hospital, she's exposed to it. I'm concerned about that. So, you know, those are just a couple different scenarios. We're also seeing concerns with people who have— Where there's a distance where, you know, for instance, one parent Say father might be living in Portland or the Portland area, you know, mother's living down here. You know, I was just talking with somebody about the, you know, right now Portland is considering, I think, putting in the shelter-in-place that they have down in California. Now, if something like that happens, then, you know, the children could potentially go visit one parent and then be stuck there with that parent, which— Isn't necessarily a bad thing for, you know, might not be a bad thing for that parent, but the other parent might really want them back. And so those are just some of the complications we're seeing right now. And it's definitely been, you know, the last— the phone has definitely been ringing off the hook increasingly over the last week with a lot of questions from people.

Wow. So it sounds like you're hearing a lot of parental custody issues coming up. Which is a whole other layer when, you know, you're hearing a lot about the kids, the schools are shut down. They're saying now at this point it might be all the way until the end of the school year.

Right.

They're hoping April, but I'm hearing a lot of talk about maybe till the end of the year. So it sounds like this is really adding an extra layer when you're talking about custody.

And yeah, yeah, and with the school closures, that's been, you know, some people have asked, Well, what do we do? You know, our parenting plan says, you know, if the kids are in school, how do we treat it? You know, and really, any situation is different. You need to look at the parenting plan. But, you know, as I've told people, it's still technically the school year. And so that's, you know, but that does create problems, especially when daycares might be closing or people are reluctant to put their kids in the daycare. And so that Yeah, as you said, that adds a whole other layer to it.

Yeah, wow, that sounds really complicated. And so what are you telling people as far as like, what can they do if someone who's watching this is in that situation, which I can assume there are people watching this right now who are in that situation where they're thinking, you know, I can manage my kid and keep him in social distance while he's at my house, but When he's at dad's, maybe it's a whole other story. What can the parents do?

Well, I, you know, I have to be careful about, you know, giving advice because each situation is different and it's very tailored to, you know, what that— what the party's parenting plan is. But I, you know, I would say kind of just some general points. I mean, the first thing is, you know, make sure you're doing what's healthy for, you know, what's best in terms of the health for you and your family. You know, if you have elderly people living in your home or people that are high risk, that's always something you need to consider, given that they're saying, you know, children can be carriers even if they appear healthy. So, you know, I'm telling people, first of all, you know, you do need to keep that in mind. I would, you know, just encourage people to be respectful of, you know, the situation in the other household. You know, if you you know, in that sort of situation. So if you have, you know, maybe there's nobody at high risk in your household, but if, you know, in your ex's house there is somebody that's at high risk, you know, please be considerate of that. You know, I kind of— the first rule of thumb is always to, you know, follow your parenting plan, make sure you're, you know, complying with it. But, you know, in certain situations compliance might be difficult, and if that's the case, you know, the first thing you need to do I think is have, you know, and this can be unpleasant for some people, is, you know, try and see if there's a way you can talk to, you know, the other party to try and work it out, see if you can reach a compromise. And if you can't, then at that point I would say, you know, talk to your attorney, you know, and see if your attorney can try and come up with a compromise either with that other individual or with that person's attorney. But You know, I think it's easy for people to— you know, some people, I think in times like this, you know, they become paranoid or it's easy to sometimes when you're afraid to take that out on somebody else and to, you know, maybe get a little nasty or try and take advantage of a situation. And I would just say, you know, Kind of the general rule of thumb, be kind. I mean, don't, you know, there's no need to, you know, let this, you know, things are probably, you know, if you're in a situation where things are already bad with somebody, don't let this, you know, don't use this as a weapon to try and make things worse against, you know, somebody else. And remember that, you know, your kids are important to both of you. You need to be doing what's best for your children. And, you know, yes, there might be situations where you do what's best for your family, and maybe that does mean you go a couple weeks without your kids, or maybe that means that you, you know, you alter things a little bit in terms of how they're exchanged or, you know, aspects like that. But I think it's important to, number one, just be respectful towards the other person and acknowledge, you know, that People are afraid right now, but that doesn't mean that we need to be getting, as I said, nasty or overly aggressive with people about this. I think it's important to kind of take a deep breath and say, okay, what's best for me, for my family, for my children, for the other people in my household, and what's going to be best for the other household that my children are going to?

I love that. That's great advice for all of us out there. And I'm imagining, you know, knowing the audience that's watching this, there's probably someone out there that maybe they don't have that parenting plan in place and now they're facing this new challenge. So at what point, if someone, maybe they're experiencing the fact that they don't have a parenting plan in place because it hasn't been needed, but now they're seeing, maybe they're seeing that ugly side, maybe they're dealing with that conflict. At what point would you suggest that they're reaching out to someone like you?

Well, if you don't have a parenting plan in place, but you're separated, I think that's the time, this is probably a good time for you to reach out to an attorney and work on getting a parenting plan put in place because we don't know how long this is gonna be going on. Hopefully, the drastic impacts of it will only be a few months, but— I mean, I'm telling people, you know, who knows? And I've had some people say, well, you know, we, you know, just if we can get through the next couple weeks, I'm sure everything will go back to normal. And I'm telling people, you don't know that. I don't know that. I mean, none of us do. And so that's why I think we need to be careful about making sure that we're, you know, as I said, in terms of being respectful towards somebody, but thinking long term. You know, how are we going to address this? Because as you pointed out, we don't know how long school is going to be closed. We don't know if they're going to be, you know, putting a shelter in place. You know, it could be Portland tomorrow, it could be all of Oregon, you know, next week. We don't know. I'm sure just like you, I certainly wasn't, you know, expecting restaurants and bars to close down, you know, on Monday, but they did. And So, who knows what's next, right?

Yeah, it's a lot of unknown right now. And this is something I don't know. Are the courts still operating at this point?

So, oh, that's— you raised a very good question there. So, the courts are still operating throughout Oregon, but with limited capacity. So, right now, the only hearings that the courts are really holding are Criminal proceedings, some guardianship proceedings, and then in terms of domestic relations, we're having hearings right now for what you would call an immediate danger hearing or restraining orders, stalking orders, things like that. Basically, in short, emergency hearings. Enforcement of parenting time actions. standard trials for divorces or modifications of parenting plans. A lot of that is being pushed out. The courts are trying to reschedule that. Here in Deschutes County, they are rescheduling a lot of hearings. I was supposed to have a 2-day trial this week and a hearing today that both of those have been moved up to May. So, that's another thing is, you know, I would encourage people to try and have a little patience about that because one of the problems is there isn't— and this is why it's so important for people to be respectful and try to have patience with each other, is because the courts are struggling right now, just like everything else, to keep up with what's going on.

Mm-hmm.

I had a hearing yesterday on an emergency issue. The court asked me and my client, or my client and me to call in rather than appear in person. And the other attorney, he sat at a separate table than his client. Even though his client was wearing a mask and had gloves on, the judge still separated them and kept, as I said, my client and me out of the courtroom. And so, you know, the court is taking precautions. They're trying to cut back on the number of people that are there. They've also, the judges have been great about how they've responded to it. They've set some new rules in place temporarily. Normally in criminal proceedings, for instance, a lot of people have to appear in person for every hearing. They're allowing people to appear by phone in certain proceedings or just have their attorney appear for them. Not for everything, but in limited proceedings. So the courts are really stepping up and doing a lot to do their part to cut back on having people together. I don't practice criminal law really, so I don't know all the rules specifically, but I know they've kind of come up with some new rules as far as how juries are being selected, what's going on there. So it's, hopeful, I think, to see that, you know, just like the schools, just like, you know, a lot of other industries, the courts are doing their part to make sure that social distancing is respected. And, you know, I saw a great quote the other day from Judge Ashby, the presiding judge here in Deschutes County, where I primarily practice. he was encouraging the other judges and said that, you know, we're going to have— we need to have more patience right now, not less. And I think that that's really encouraging to see that the, you know, our presiding judges are taking that attitude. And I'm very— it's, you know, I think a lot of my colleagues, you know, I've experienced the same thing with a lot of them, other attorneys I've talked to this past week. about cases where people are stepping back, we're acknowledging we have difficulties, we're trying to work together. Obviously there's still conflict, there always is in this profession, but I'm really, really proud to be a part of the bar here and see the way attorneys are treating each other with that respect and not letting this devolve into a free-for-all war zone.

That is so awesome to hear because I do see that, like, I think that a lot of us are experiencing that, even though there's like the toilet paper crisis, and there's a lot of people out there acting in scarcity. There's also this, this unity that's happening. And so it's really cool to hear that even, you know, like in the law industry, like there's that unity and that, that patience and respect happening as well.

Yeah, no, it's been— it's difficult for sure, but, you know, I had a mediation this past Monday and, you know, I opted to stay home and, you know, rather than actually attending the mediation in person, I talked to my client. My client was fine with it. The mediator and the other party and the other attorney were great. We managed to settle the case, but it was— it's nice that people are having those discussions and we're being respectful. with each other. And yeah, it's nice to see that in the legal profession. It's not all like TV where they paint us out to be terrible to each other.

TV's not real? What?

I know, imagine that.

Shocked. So for someone who's wondering, maybe they're watching this right now and they're like, Yeah, I think, you know, I need to have those things in place. I need to do these things. And maybe they're nervous about— I'm glad that you brought up the courtrooms and, you know, courthouses being open, because I can imagine that that's kind of an incubator for people, you know, if they're scared about getting the virus. I'm hearing that judges, and they're really taking it seriously, and they're doing a lot of social distancing and doing what they can. But if there's someone out there that's thinking, well, maybe I need a mediator, or maybe I need an attorney, like, at what point would you say, yes, definitely seek that guidance? Is that something you guys offer? Like, I heard you say mediations. Is that something you guys offer? Well, we—

I'm not a mediator, but we will work with— we do represent people in mediation. I think, you know, the best place to always start is I would schedule a consultation with a family law attorney. That's where, you know, if you're having difficulties, you know, and really need somebody to help you solve them, I would start there. You know, then you can get, you know, some guidance as to, first of all, whether, you know, an attorney thinks you really, you know, do need somebody involved. I would also just kind of caution people, you know, even though it may be difficult to get in court right now, And there might be, you know, as I said, some things you need to do for the safety of your family and the people involved. I would really encourage people to be mindful of the fact that, you know, your actions now, maybe you're not going to get in front of a judge within the next month or two. But down the road, if you're in front of a judge, you know, the courts are going to look back and, and consider how people acted in the past. And so that's why I think it's That's what I said, please be respectful towards the parent, the other parent of your children. That's gonna matter in the long run and the courts, I think, will consider those things. So, but to go back to your question, yes, I would just say start off with a consultation if you don't have an attorney. If you do have an attorney, it doesn't hurt to contact them and say, okay, is there anything You know, I'm following the parenting plan, or I have questions about the parenting plan. What should I be doing? You know, it's better to be safe than to, you know, decide to do something on your own that might backfire on you later.

Yes, very good advice. And I know that you also offer— just so people know, you also offer estate planning and probate. And wills?

Yes, yes. Um, yeah, we have found, uh, people are wanting to get their wills in line. Um, we don't have them. I encourage everybody, not, not just because of, you know, and I'm not, not trying to jump on the scare bandwagon here, but I think it's, it's always a good idea to make sure you have your estate planning in place. Um, encourage people to at the least get a will. You know, or talk to an attorney about whether a will or trust is more appropriate for you. But definitely everybody should have a will. And it's, it's not just something for old people. I encourage young people to do it as well, especially if you're married or have, you know, small children. It's really important to deal with those, those things. I know my, my sister and her husband, they got theirs done in their late 20s. because they have small children. And so I think sometimes there's a misconception that, you know, we get this image of TV or the movies where a will is something that an old person has. And, you know, you don't think about it until it's read in a great room with oak-paneled walls. But that's really— everybody should have a will just to make sure that things are clear and about what is, you what's going to happen with your estate, you know, after you pass. And it's, you know, it's important for your, your children or your other beneficiaries to make sure you have that in place.

Awesome. So if someone is watching this and they're in either Oregon or in Montana and they want to get a hold of you and find out more about what you offer, or maybe they have some questions and they want to get a consultation with either you or one of your associates, How do they get ahold of you?

Yes, so I work at the Law Offices of Angela Lee. Angela Lee is the partner here. There's another attorney, Matthew Holland, as well as myself. Matthew, I think, has about 10 years of experience. I've been practicing for 11 years. Yeah, they can call us. The number here is 541-678-5614. As I said, the Law Offices of Angela Lee here in Bend, and we We've accepted cases all over the state of Oregon. So yeah, they're happy to give us a call.

Awesome. And we'll also put your website link below in case anyone wants to check it out. And I want to thank you so much for taking your time to pour into us today. You gave us some really great advice and some really practical tips for parents out there who are wondering how to handle these situations. So, John Michael, thank you so much for joining us today.

Val, thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. And I, you know, I think it's great the message that you're getting out there right now, and I'm really happy and honored to be a part of it.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, guys, and we will see you tomorrow on the Thrive Show. Bye!