Ep. 19: The 2021 Book List from the Book Broads
22 Dec 2021 · 34 min
Jen Dorsey and Vanessa Campos pick their favorite 2021 reads and build a gift guide for every type of reader. They recommend Somebody's Daughter by Ashley Ford, Matrix by Lauren Groff, The Splendid and the Vile by Erik Larson, and dozens of others across poetry, mystery, memoir, and YA. They also discuss donating books to libraries instead of letting them get pulped.
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Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your host Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey. Hello, welcome to the Pub Date podcast. Vanessa Campos Campos Campos, happy Friday and happy holidays.
Happy Friday, happy holidays. I'm so excited today. It's the last, very last recording of 2021, and it's a good one.
It is a good one. We are going to have so much fun today. First of all, I have to say, I cannot believe the year that we have had.
Gosh.
At Broad Book Group. It has been crazy. It has been wonderful. We started this podcast. We met Paul, um, our awesome producer, and we're having so much fun doing the show and just meeting clients. And I don't know, it's been great. I feel really, really lucky that we've had this awesome year.
Same. I'm just gonna echo that. It's— I was walking over, you know, down the neighborhood this morning right before this, this podcast, and I was like, you know what, I'm happy. This is good.
It's good.
It's good, which is really weird because it's a weird time.
It is. It's a very weird time, but that's okay because you know what you can do during a very weird time is you can do retail therapy. Yes. That's what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about some last minute holiday shopping recommendations, all book focused, of course, because we are us and that's what we do. So, you know, I don't know about you, but I buy books for everybody, whether they want them or not.
Yes.
Folks, you're getting books from me this year. This year. Surprise! Spoiler alert. Um, let's talk about that for a little bit. We've got some favorites. We're going to share those with each other today. I cannot wait to hear yours.
Where should we start? Okay, so obviously let's start nonfiction because that's really where, where we are. I try to stay as far away from business books, but I can't. Um, it's a sickness. It is a sickness. Um, but I will admit my fiction list this year was way longer than my nonfiction, so So, all right, what's on your nonfiction list, Jen?
All right, let's start with that. And we'll preface this by saying we're gonna talk about our favorite nonfiction and fiction books of the year, and then we have very specific recommendations for your shopping needs. So yes, we're gonna cover as much as we can. All right, so for nonfiction, I too, when I'm reading for myself, even though I read a lot of business books because that's a lot of what we do and that's our past and, and, you know, our present and probably our future too, just because that's who we are, um, I don't read a ton of them, but I do have a couple that I want to— well, one specifically that I want to mention, and I don't even know if I call it a business book, but that's Betting on You by Lori Ruderman. She is great. We're Twitter acquaintances. She just really wrote a fantastic book about how to like stop and take a pause. And, you know, if you're kind of angsty about your job right now or you're looking to make a change, you need to start with fixing you first before you go out and look for a job. So I love that. I think that's a really great mindset. To be in. So A+ to Lori. I love the book. Um, the other one in that category I would say is Right Within. Yes, I'm into hearts. Um, Mind is fabulous. We're gonna hopefully have her on the show in the new year, and we'll be excited to talk to her. She's the author of the memo, um, Right Within is also, uh, for Black women in business, just about, um, kind of, you know, how to, how to get right within, how to kind of handle all of the slings and arrows that are thrown at Black women, especially in the business world. So I think those two are kind of my to in that business category. And then I kind of went memoir this year. I went on a memoir binge. So my two faves in that nonfiction category are Somebody's Daughter by Ashley Ford and Unbound by Tarana Burke. These just— oh, I don't even know where to start.
Such good things. I haven't read them yet.
They're so good. Ashley Ford is a fellow Hoosier girl. I'm a Hoosier myself. And So she writes a lot about in the book just what it's like to be a Black woman in Indiana, which is a hard place, I would assume, to be a Black woman. She's just had an amazing life. She's a beautiful writer. She's a beautiful soul. And I just, I love the book. It broke my heart and mended it at the same time, if that's even possible. She just has a good—
Good writer.
Very good writer. And then Unbound by Tarana Burke is kind of in that memoir category as well. She's the founder of the Me Too movement. And just has so much important stuff to say. And, you know, likewise, I just— it just lifted me up out of the places that I was kind of in. And I don't know, it just really spoke to me. So those are my tops. What about you?
Okay. I also have Write Within. I haven't opened it yet because I'm so afraid of what I'm going to discover about myself. So that's going to be, you know, the week between Christmas and New Year's so that I can start the year right. Within myself. So I would say for me, nonfiction, I kind of did— and looking at my list, I did a little bit of introspective, like, why am I so angry? Why am I so feeling this way? So I gravitated toward Three Women by Lisa— I'm gonna butcher her name— Taddeo. And I— there's so many mixed emotions as you read this book that I actually had to put it down and pick it back up. So many times and like, I can't. I felt so much pain. I felt so, I don't know, like it really, these stories break you of these 3 women. And she does a really beautiful job of bringing just the humanity of it all to your page. And it's just, it broke me. If you wanna be broken for a little bit, read it. The next one, and this one I kind of bounced between the book and the audiobook, was "Rage Becomes Her" by Soraya Chamali. Vanessa Campos. I'm gonna butcher all the names. Because The Rage Becomes Her is an exploration of why we as women get boxed in. And I'm already becoming very angry about it because I also had to put this book down a few times and I was so angry. And it probably didn't help that I was listening to it on my way into work, my 9 to 5, and I was just like, ugh. You know, just like you had mentioned, all of these books do a really good job of kind of breaking you apart and making you you look inside of yourself before you build yourself back up. And I think that that's— I was gonna say the type of year that we've had, but I realize that we're going into year 3 of the pandemic.
Yeah, the type of years we've had.
Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I, I feel that that needed a little bit of, you know, some escapism. So let's talk about fiction.
Yeah, for sure.
What's on your fiction list?
Okay, well, I mean, I definitely have a theme, but probably that's just because of who I am. I mean, we all have our own things, right, that we love to read. And so I'm trying really hard to break out of that, but I always come back to English stuff and mystery stuff and creepy college campus stuff. Oof, and nuns. I don't know. It's a bizarre combination. So I've got some of those on my top list here. So first, I loved a book called A Peculiar Combination by Ashley Weaver. This is a fun book. It's about a woman, safe cracker. She's a thief. This is in the '40s, you know, it's in the height of the Cold War— or not the Cold War, World War II. And she's cracking safes, and then she gets recruited by the British to go and crack some Nazi safes. Safe and, you know, help with the war effort. So it's just a really fun mystery '40s read. I just loved it. It's just fun. And I hope that she writes more for this character. I think she's supposed to. So I love that. Also very British-y is The Mystery of Mrs. Christie. So if you are an Agatha Christie reader or if you are even familiar with her, you know, I would start with like Murder on the Orient Express. If you've seen the movie, it's a great movie. Both the old version and the new version. But this is about what happened when she, uh, disappeared. She disappeared once in real life. This really happened. Agatha Christie just poof, she disappeared. It turns out that she like ran away to a spa to get away from her husband.
All right, it was fabulous.
So this is sort of a fictional, um, telling of what that might have looked like and what happened when Agatha Christie disappeared. So it is fiction, but you can also read some great nonfiction stuff about that, that event and that incident. But this is just kind of a fun lark type of a book on that. Um, loved it. So the one that I know we both loved was The Maidens.
Oh my God, yes, I'm still shook from that, right?
So if you love, um, The Secret History by Donna Tartt. You will love this book. And The Secret History is my all-time favorite fiction book because it is— it's the weird creepy campus thing. It's creepy campuses and secret societies and people doing wrong by other people, professors and students, and doing things they shouldn't be doing together. Oh yeah, it's all of that. And so The Maidens is— it's got that Donna Tartt vibe to it. I really enjoyed it. Um, it's a much faster read than The Secret History, so if If you dug into The Secret History and you're like, "Ooh, this is too dense," start with The Maid, then go back to Secret History. I really loved it. So that was the other one I liked. And then finally, Matrix by Lauren Groff, which has been getting a ton of press. She's made all the lists. She's on Barack Obama's list this week for one of the best books. This is about a prioress, which is a nun who goes to take care of other nuns. And I'm going to pull up the description because I can't even remember all of it. She was cast out of the royal court by Eleanor of Aquitaine. She wasn't marriage-worthy. So she's 17 and she's sent to England to be the new prioress of an abbey. And the nuns are in crisis. And it's just— there's just a lot going on in this book. I have not finished it yet, but I am really enjoying it. So those are my nuns and creepy things and mysteries. What about you?
I think we have a theme here where we're talking about creepy things and mysteries. Yeah. I came across this book, I have no idea how it got on my list, but it's Fosa Wells by Gabriela Aleman, who is, I believe she's an Ecuadorian writer, and this was her first full-length book that was translated in English. It's a small town with corrupt politicians, violent gangs, women are disappearing, no one's doing anything about it, and there's a little bit of some supernatural stuff going on.
Cool.
It's a novel short read thriller. I love it. I loved it. It, it was definitely worth it. And I need to start exploring more writers, um, in Latin America because it was mind-blowing. Next, this one was on the list of— there's a podcast that we listen to that I can't think about, uh, the name of it, and I believe you're connected to them and they read off all the books.
Oh gosh, now my brain's gone.
Book Squad.
Oh, Book Squad Goals.
Yes, they're awesome.
Hey, Book Squad Goals.
Hey.
Hey, Susan and team, how are you?
They literally were the reason why I got into all of these books that I'm about to, like, go off and read. And I will say that I definitely, I enjoyed listening to their critique, but I think I disagreed with a lot of them. The one that I really, you know, hooked me on based on their podcast was Milk Fed by Melissa Broder. And that one was really interesting. It talks about this— it follows this woman who has a very difficult relationship with her mother, has issues with eating, and is part of this Jewish Orthodox sect of the religion, and ends up that she finds herself when she falls in love with a woman. Who she's not allowed to fall in love with.
I love that.
That one was great. Um, oh my God, Alyssa Cole's When No One Is Watching. If you haven't picked it up, pick it up. It's like, it's got history, it's got, uh, gentrification, it has, um, people being experimented on, and it's, it's It's insane. And I can't wait for it to be a Hulu series or a Hulu movie or a Netflix original because it really needs to be one. The next one was Luster by Raven Leilani. And I picked that one up because it follows a woman of color, a Black woman in book publishing. And it's her relationship with superiors, she getting involved in somebody who is really her boss, boss-like figure and then ended up having to live with them and his wife and their adopted daughter who happens to also be Black and their connection. And it's a lot of— I don't know. It kind of crushes you. I'm into books that crush you.
You got a theme this year. I got a theme.
I wanted to be crushed. Then I— this one was another recommendation, The Seven and a Half Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle.
And that's a great cover, by the way.
Oh my God.
It's a beautiful cover.
It's so Art Deco, it's so wonderful. And I had to stop it and, and go back and refigure. I'm like, okay, so who is this person now? So the ending will— it just comes out of nowhere. It's like 100 Years of Solitude a little bit, um, where history repeats itself, but it's, it's not. It ends up being something that you didn't even think about. So it's almost like a Sims simulation of torture and having to figure out whodunit in order to escape this And you have to read it. I mean, I know you've read it, but it's a must-read. It's a fun read. It makes you think. It makes you stop. If you're listening to it, you may have to go back a few times.
Agreed.
Those are my lists. A lot of whodunit, a lot of escapism for us this year.
That's okay. That is okay. This was a year that called for escapism, I think. Yes. 100%. All right. I love those. I love those recs. Yay, us. Look at us. Building this little library. So those are our favorites, but we also know that you can't just go and buy books for yourself, even though you should. Sometimes you have to buy for other people. So we have compiled a little list of interesting, interesting people to buy for. So we're going to talk about that, and if we don't get through them all, we'll definitely put all this in the show notes and maybe do a little blog post about this too. So I will, since it's my turn, I'm going to kick it off for the poetry lover. In your life. There are people who just sit down and love that poetry. I've got a couple of great ones here. These are short, they're pithy, great stocking stuffers. The Hill We Climb by the amazing Amanda Gorman. This is the poem that she read at the inauguration for President Biden in January. It is a beautiful, beautiful piece of writing. It's an even better piece of spoken word, but they've released it in a small hardcover that's perfect for gifting. So I really, I love that one. And then my other favorite, this is maybe for the feminist poetry lover in your life, I Hope This Finds You Well by Kate Baer. And we've talked about Kate Baer before. We love her stuff. What Kind of Woman was her first book of poetry. This is also a small one. This is really interesting though. She's taken emails and blog posts that are— and comments from people like in the comments section of various articles and stories. And she's flipped them on their head and deleted stuff to turn the words that are left into poems. That kind of— it's very intriguing. I just thought it was really cool and really fun. I'm going to send you a copy because you're going to love it.
Oh, I'm excited.
That's my poetry lover. What do you have? Who do you want to recommend for?
I want to recommend— and this could be for either a teenager that is a Disney lover or an adult who is a Disney lover, which is guilty. Here I am. There is a series of books from Disney. I think it's Disney Hyperion, and it's the Twisted Tale books. It's the What If series for all of the Disney books. And right now, I have Part of Your World, which my favorite Disney movie, Little Mermaid, for so many reasons. And it's on my to-be-read list. And that's just— I'm excited. Have you read any of them?
No, the kids have some and they are, they're really cool books and they really enjoy them. So we're big Disney people too and we're gearing up for a big trip, hopefully, knock on wood, in the summer. So we'll have to read some in advance of that.
Yes, definitely. Okay, so I have another one and this one is something that it's been on my list for the Somali in your family or the one that wants to pretend to be because we all have that person in our family.
There's always that one, yeah.
So this book is a really great gift book. It's 99 Bottles: A Black Sheep's Guide to Life-Changing Wines by André Houston Mack. It's illustrated, it's 4-color, it's a hardcover, it's beautiful. And it offers advice on wines that aren't necessarily on most people's lists. So it takes you out of that comfort zone. And I love his background because he didn't start off as being a winemaker. I think he's actually started corporate and decided, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to go after this passion of mine. And he makes it really easy to love wines that you didn't think that you could love. And he has this really cool series on YouTube with Bon Appétit called World of Wine with André Mack. Check it out.
Oh, I love that idea. Kind of a, kind of a twofer there. I dig it.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Here's someone that a lot of us have to buy for, and that is your uncle who loves war.
Ooh, yes.
They're so busy.
Or your father-in-law who loves war.
Any of the older dudes in your life, man, they love war, they love the military, they love all that stuff, and I love them for it. But you got to get them a little bit out of their wheelhouse. So get them away from those Bill O'Reilly books. Let's talk about a better book, and that is The Splendid and the Vile: A Saga of Churchill, Family, and Defiance During the Blitz. This is a big beast of a book. It's by Erik Larson. So if you remember Devil in the White City, which was about the serial killer at the Chicago World's Fair. Excuse me. That's Erik Larson. And he's got a really beautiful way of just crafting these real-life stories and telling you the background, just digging deeply into a topic. So this is all about Churchill and what was going on during the Blitz period. So I love it. I picked it up for actually my mom who loves military history, believe it or not. She's not a big war person, but she loves She loves anything World War II. So she really just plowed right through it. So that's a really good one. My other person that you may have to buy for, it's sort of related, is for your dad who only reads Brad Thor novels or only reads Carl Hyasson novels. You know, they love those paperbacks. They love those, the mass market paperbacks, which nothing wrong with them, but let's bring them out of there.
Box a little bit.
And I think one great way that you can do that and give them something new to try is to get them started on the George Smiley novels, um, by John le Carré. And Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is a really great one to start with. That was a movie a few years ago. Gary Oldman is in it, Benedict Cumberbatch is in it. Um, Tinker Tailor is kind of the one everybody knows, but there's a whole series of George Smiley novels that kind of digs into that British British spy world, and they're beautifully written. They are slow burns, though. I'm going to preface it with that. They're not like boom, boom, boom, action-packed. They're really character building and kind of stepping slowly into the topic. But man, once you get into them, they are just fantastic.
Ooh, I'm interested in that. I'm really interested in the history. I love anything World War II. I watch it all, and then that's just my secret. That's my secret. But let's talk about another big— just this big phenomenon that's happened over— I don't know, maybe because I turned mid-30s. For anybody who is obsessed with true crime— yes, that is all I watch now— check out Savage Appetites: True Stories of Women, Crime, and Obsession by Rachel Monroe. This one explains why we as women are obsessed with them.
Interesting.
The Good, the Bad, the Gruesome is all covered in there. So it's a little bit, again, with the whole like, why do we do the things that we do and breaking it all down. It's a really, really good read and it just kind of captures you. And she goes into it like, are we the detective type? Are we the serial killer type? But it's a really good read for that person who is just super obsessed with true crime.
Oh, and you could pair it with Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. Oh, the book that goes along with that podcast. That'd be a nice little gift pack to put together.
Oh, I'm into that. Okay, now this one is a little bit selfish. So I have this little secret that every year I buy the Astro Twins, uh, yearly book. The Astro Twins are this It's literally these twins who are astrologers and kind of talk to you about love and career. It's my escapism. Everything is escapism for me. But it's my 2022 horoscope guide, and it kind of walks you through what your year is going to look like, how to prepare yourself for things based on the Moon. And yeah, I'm a millennial. It's okay. But if anyone who is out there has a millennial in their life who's figuring-ish out, there's another astrologer that I I really got into, and her name is Honey Nicholas, and she wrote You Were Born for This: Astrology for Radical Self-Acceptance. A lot of reasons why you do the things that you do. All you need, all you need is your birthday and your time of day and where you were born, and then you're all set. She's got an app, she's got this whole thing. So if you have the time on your hands to try to figure it out, You know, it's kind of fun. And, you know, take it with a grain of salt, but it's kind of like my deep, dark secret.
Oh my gosh, I'm going to pick that up. I need to know more about what house my Moon is in and all that stuff because I don't—
I get confused all the time. I have a book and I wrote this down and I'm going to try to make that like my hobby, but it's really confusing.
It is.
Sorry, astro twins.
Well, they will help you. They'll help you figure it all out. I like that.
Yeah.
I've got a couple. We cannot leave out the kids because we can't leave out kids. It's kind of their holiday. So, well, maybe not, but I have to buy for kids. So I have been perusing the bookshelves a lot lately for my kids and other people's kids as well. I've got a couple here. For a kid who is too old for picture books, but they are not yet ready for like Rick Riordan and the bigger chapter books, I want to recommend the Zeus the Mighty series. This is such a cute book series. It's kind of right in that, that 3rd and 4th grade level, you know, kids who are just ready, but not— they're ready to read more, but not yet for the big stuff. So these are just kind of fun little imaginings of different Greek gods and goddesses and what they're up to and some of the more classic stories, but they throw them in some new situations too. And you can listen to Nat Geo's Greeking Out podcast to go along with this. National Geographic does so much cool stuff for kids, and "Greeking Out" tells a lot of the cool Greek mythology stories for that age level too. So that's a really fun series. For your older kiddo, if you've got an LGBTQIA kid or teen, I think "You Should See Me in a Crown" by Leah Johnson is an absolute must-read. It's a wonderful book. She's also a fellow Hoosier, as a matter of fact, I believe. Really great writer. It's just a wonderful heartfelt book that kind of touches the heart, I think. And especially for— I think parents should read it too. Just fantastic. And then Cinderella Is Dead by Kalynn Bayron is a fun reimagining of the Cinderella tale for an LGBTQ teen or tween audience. So those are both really, really fun for that crowd. Oh, love that.
Love it, love it, love it. I love these reimagining things of of older books and tales. So I have one last one, and this one is for any bookish parent who maybe just became a parent, their kid's starting to read. It is called Born to Read: Our First Five Years in Books, and it has recommendations. So it's basically a journal that you can jot down your firsts with your kid. It starts off with ages 0 to 1, 3 to 5. It has a lot of diverse book suggestions, and you could just kind of go along with it. There are questions that you can ask your child as you're reading the books, and you can kind of jot this down, and it, it kind of becomes a, a baby's first, but for the bookish parent. I loved it. Okay, one more. For the aspiring author who's almost done with their first book, I highly recommend Before and After the Book Deal by Courtney Mom.
Yes.
And she does such a good job of breaking it down for the author, just anybody who is on that side of it. And she tells it like it is. She asks the questions. All of her questions are there. They're likely your questions. And she shares her experience with you. And I think that— I thank her for the book because it does bring that— it shines a light into all of the mysteries of book publishing from that perspective.
100%, I agree. I will, um, super fast throughout my last two, for the foodie in your life, World Travel: An Irreverent Guide by Anthony Bourdain and Laurie Woolever, who worked with him for all the years that he traveled and did his show and did a cook's tour and all the other stuff that he did for CNN. And just a really beautiful, big, dense book all about the travels that they had together. And just, you know, it makes you miss him even more because he's no longer with us. But it's a really nice gift. I love that book. And then finally, for you, Vanessa, and for me, because we deserve it. The Drunken Botanist: The Plants That Create the World's Best Drinks. Yes. Amy Stewart. Tap off the year with a cocktail. It tells you everything behind how drinks were made and what plants were used to make them. It's just a beautiful, cool, gorgeous book. It's a wonderful book to gift people, but more importantly, maybe to gift to yourself when you're having that post-holiday cocktail. So that's it for my recommendations.
Paul, can I, can I jump in and offer one last thought here? Yes.
Yes.
Is it too early to pre-order the first imprints coming from, uh, Broad Book Group here in 2022? Is it—
oh, trick question.
There's all— again, it's a limited run, I understand, so people might want to get in early. They don't know what the titles are yet, but there's some stuff coming here.
That's a very good preview for 2022. We don't yet have them up on, on the site or on Amazon, but yes, you can be looking forward to some Broad Book Press books in the fall of 2022.
There you go.
Yes, we're excited for that. Thank you, Paul.
Thanks for the plug, Paul.
I thought I'd throw that in there. And I have to admit, I'm one of those crazy military history guys. I'm your uncle who wants to hit history book. I got stacks of history books. My dad was a bomber pilot in World War II, my late father, and that just imbued me and everybody in my generation with this fascination with World War II and everything that came after that here. So I got tons of those books. Yeah, I could rebook some. I could regift some of those to people. I should start regifting away or creating a military history museum or something here.
Yes, you need a book haul.
That was a book haul.
It's a book haul where you, where you list all the books that have spent enough time on your bookshelves and you give them to a good home and somebody who's going to appreciate them.
What a great idea. I've never heard of that. Do people do that? You just put it up and then somehow you get to pick and choose from other people's collections? Because I really do have tons of these books that I haven't read in years, and I thought, what am I going to do with my daughter? I don't want them.
Oh, that's a good question. I think we could probably talk about that in our next episode. There's a lot of things that we could do to pay it forward next year, and I think that we should talk about book deserts.
Yes, I like that whole idea. In fact, it was— this may be a weird aside, and I'm going down a rabbit hole here, but I, I hate to admit it, I like the show Sex and the City. And, uh, when it was on, I know guys aren't to say that, but I thought it was clever and cute. And I didn't get it. It was a world I've never seen before, clearly, you know, the shoes and handbags and stuff. But they were this snarky kind of girls making it through New York. And, and they talked about in the reboot, the new one that's come out, how they are consciously— the people who were the costumers on the show purposely did not just pick new clothes. They went and picked thrift shows because they said this is kind of the general ethical ethic of redoing stuff, reusing stuff, even if it's expensive stuff, redoing it, reusing it. Why does it all have to be use it once? I read a book once and then I throw it away or I stick it in a shelf forever. How do you repurpose stuff that had value to you that might have value to others?
Yeah, I love that. We should do that with books. I think we can come up with a ton of ideas to share with people on how to, how to clean out their bookshelves and Spread a little bit of love.
Yeah, because otherwise what happens to old books when, like, I hate to say it, my father died, I just, I don't know, I threw them away or gave them away. I mean, but it was just, it was just went down to the local library and said, here's giant piles of books that he had that I wasn't interested in.
Yes.
Libraries, donations, those are great, great options. I will say that the worst part of my job working in book publishing was pulping. It was ugly. That is not my favorite.
Chopping them back up again here, because yeah, I mean, there are tons and tons of books. There's no shortage of books coming out, and nobody ever thinks about what happens to old books. Where do old books go to die?
Did they just go— We'll uncover it next year on the Pub Date Podcast.
All right, thank you for all you've done. This has been a great show. We've got a lot of reaction to it, and I just want I just want to come in and say thank you for this. And I look forward to really the titles that you're going to come out with and hopefully some conferences next year with OC Talk Radio about writing books.
Absolutely. We just feel really excited and lucky to be working with you. So have a great holiday, have a wonderful end of your year. And next year we are going to do all the things together. Absolutely. All right.
Yes. Take us out. Give us the outro.
All right. That's been Pub Date Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks to our producer, Paul Roberts. Thanks to our executive producer, Emily Carpenter. Vanessa Campos of Little Red Communications, and we will see you next year.
Bye!
We hope that you gained some valuable insights into the world of book publishing. Head over to broadbookgroup.com to learn more about us and all our services, and be sure to check out all our social media @BroadBookGroup. Until then, keep publishing!
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