Ep. 37: Book Distribution 101: How to Sell Your Book Around the World

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your host Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey.

Welcome, welcome everyone. It is the second episode of spooky season. Hi, Jen. How are you doing?

Hi. I'm terrified. I'm terrified about what we're going to talk about today.

Well, it's less spooky and more demystifying. You know, I was thinking to myself, I woke up and it was at 90 degrees. I was like, ooh, it's getting chilly. And every time I live in Southern California, so every time it gets chilly, I start thinking like, I should probably take my annual trip to New York and, you know, feel some weather. And one of the things that I love to do when I'm in different cities is go to bookstores. All the bookstores.

No, you do.

I know, right? Occupational hazard. I should get paid to do that.

I wish. I wish we could. I mean, we pay ourselves, right? To do that kind of in the name of research.

Research. Exactly. Research. So one of the things that I think that I always think about, like when I'm walking in, I'm like, okay, well, this is the new latest and greatest and this is like, you know, this is what's selling. And sometimes what's selling isn't the latest and greatest, which I love. Backlists are great for publishers.

Yep.

But I always have my authors in mind. I always have, you know, our self-published authors, our traditionally published authors in mind. And, and always in the back of my mind, I think, how did the books get here? And how are we going to get our authors' books in the bookstore?

Magic.

Magic.

That's it. See? Boom.

You wrote it. It's done.

That's the end of the show, guys. Have a great week.

Thank you.

Bye. It's not magic. Oh, yeah. I was kidding. It's not.

So we talk a lot about how books are made, kind of like the how are babies made. But how do books get to the bookstore, like physical bookstore, if you're so lucky to get that placement? Because we all know space is limited. Lots of books out there. But how do books make it to that bookshelf?

Excellent question. We should answer it today.

This is the spooky part. This is the part that everyone's going to get really freaked out and start feeling overwhelmed. But it's OK because we're here to help with the overwhelm. Yeah. So the answer is distribution. Let's talk about that.

Distribution. Capital D distribution. That sounds like a really in-the-weeds, kind of inside baseball word, but it's not. It's the way anything gets to any store. Books are no different, right?

Right. They are.

And it's product. It, it gets to the store. You know, your laundry detergent gets to a store, so do your books. And the way that happens is distribution, right? Absolutely. So let's unmask it.

Yeah, let's talk about that. So if you, if you're a traditionally published author, book publisher takes care of distribution, right?

Indeed they do. Yes. Which is a big reason why a lot of people obviously want to do that. They want to go that route because they are not the ones having to figure out the very complicated way that the book distribution happens. And it can be very complicated. So, yes, that is on the publisher. So there's a lot that goes into it, as you and I both know. So let's dig into it a little bit. Here's the, here's the 50 Cent tour. All right. Or the nickel tour, even. It's the short tour. The short version is that you work, you know, you get a book deal and hopefully you get a nice advance, or at least an advance, any advance. It can be modest. You write your book, it goes through all the, all the different stages, editorial and development and design and layout and proofing, and ta-da, then there's a book at the end. So once that happens, once your beautiful book is ready to roll, Or actually, this— I would— let me back it up. Distribution, you should even think about before it goes to the printer. So before it even goes to the printer, your publisher is having conversations with their book distributor. And a book distributor, in short, is just a company that really is kind of the middleman between the publisher and the bookstore. They are going to go in, they're going to sell the books on the publisher's behalf, thus on your behalf. They're going to talk to buyers at places like Amazon and Barnes Noble and all of the independent stores and specialty stores if your book is applicable to that arena. Um, they're going to work with those buyers to determine how many books those accounts, those stores, actually want to take on. So for example, if there's a bookstore that has, you know, let's just say 500 locations and they want to put 5 of your books in every store, that's a pretty good buy. That's a pretty big buy, right? Um, so they make those kinds of decisions before your book is even printed. Once your publisher gets that kind of ballpark idea, they then go out and shop it to different printers to do what we call a first print run. And they base that first print run on those numbers that they're getting from the bookstores. So the distributor really does a lot of that work with you and for you. Um, not every distributor does. Some of them are just a little more small scale, I would say, but on the big scale, that's how it works. And then those books get printed, they get sent to the distribution warehouses all around the country, all around the world, and then the logistics people take it from there and all of those books go out to the Amazon warehouse, to the Barnes Noble warehouses, and then into the stores. And ta-da, your book is in the store. That's the super short version.

There's a lot more. And that's how babies are made.

That's right.

Okay, so say, I mean, we work with a lot of authors who are very very— either don't want to do the, um, they don't want to give up their rights because a lot of people are like, oh, I want to keep my rights, I want to manage the book, and I want to, you know, have creative freedom. So they decide to go the self-publish route. Can those authors access distribution in that same scale?

Not on that scale. Not on that scale. There are And let me, let me preface this by saying there are all kinds of distribute— distributors. I can't talk today. Distributors. Distributors. There are the great, great big ones like Ingram, whom we worked with in the past and we love working with. There are more mid-sized ones. There are some that specialize in very small publishers. National Book Network is a really good example of that. They work with pretty small publishers who maybe only do a few titles a year or or have maybe a slightly smaller catalog. Um, so, you know, then there, and then there are like kind of mom-and-pop homegrown distributors and wholesalers, um, who, who are willing to work with self-published authors, but it's very difficult as a self-published author to go and, and play with the big boys. And so, you know, you're, you're left with two possible scenarios. Either you're out knocking on doors, trying to be your own salesperson. And you're warehousing your own books and you're shipping your own books, or you're working with a really, really small wholesaler/distributor to, to help you do that. Um, but those deals are— they're hard to find. And, um, not— and again, not to say that they cannot happen, but I think if you don't understand the book business and you don't know how it works, you are at a real disadvantage to try to get out there and get your book into distribution if you're not working with a publisher. And keep in mind too, you don't have to be with a big publisher for distribution to work. I mean, you know, places that are as big as Ingram work with really small presses as well. They work with all kinds of publishers, but they work with people who are in the business, who know the business, right?

But let's say that, you know, you as an author, you're stubborn and you want to— you want to figure it out on your own. There's still options there. And I think, you know, we've talked about this in a few episodes, and we talk about the difference and the pros and cons of doing this when it comes to I'd like to call it digital distribution. I don't even know if that's— is that, is that the term?

That's the term I use, yeah.

All right, we'll go with that. Digital distribution is something that you can definitely do if you're planning on going at it solo. I would definitely encourage you to work with a book consultant that understands distribution on that, you know, traditional level so that you can benefit from that and really mimic some of the things that are necessary so that you get some of that attention. But you can definitely do it through like, uh, IngramSpark and Amazon's KDP.

You can. And sometimes if you start with digital distribution, that can then— if you do well and if it performs well, that can get the attention of Amazon, it can get the attention of some other, you know, bookstores or independent stores, and you might get a physical copy buy based on that. And we've seen that happen before too. So I, I'm with you. I always say kind of know what your goal is and know You know, and be realistic with yourself. Um, you know, if you are an independent solo press, you know, it's just you and just your book. You're probably not going to get it into, you know, a ton of Barnes Noble. That's probably not going to happen. But yes, you can absolutely get it digitally distributed through all of the channels and get it out there and then start building a reputation. And you and I know a lot of people who, um, who either solely distribute that way or they started that way and then it turned into something bigger. Oh yeah.

And if you're— if you work with somebody, or even if you are incredibly savvy, you did your research, and you get into the hundreds of thousands of book sales as a self-published author, there's a really good chance that you'll— you can land a very great, dare I say, six-figure book deal for your next book. I mean, you know, you just have to be smart about it. You, like you said, you have to do your due diligence. You have to figure out what your goals are. So if your goals are to get it into the hands of your clients you might not need distribution if you're not thinking like more clients outside of the current clients. If it's going to be just for like your workbook, then the people are coming to it and you might not need full distribution. You just need a place to print on demand. So if somebody buys the course, then somebody buys the book, and then it gets printed and then it gets sent, easy peasy. You still make a, you know, you still make a decent, you know, $2, $3. I shouldn't say that because it really depends on your pricing model and your page count.

And you know, since you bring that up, that is a caveat that I would give about big distribution too, right? Yes, right. Because when you're working with your— let's say, you know, you're working with a traditional publisher, you're going to get distributed whether it's through Ingram or Simon Schuster or Wiley, or, you know, all of these publishing companies also have distribution arms too. Or not all of them, but a lot of them. So when you work with a distributor in that way, it is a business. So, you know, they're going to take a percentage of the sales as well as your publisher taking a percentage of the sales. So unless you're really— unless you know you're going to move a lot of volume and it's a big book and it's, you know, you're not going to retire on your book, as we've said many times in the past on this show. And so even if you get that big fancy book deal and that big fancy distribution deal, know that everybody along the line gets paid at some point. So it just is what it is. It's part of the business. But, you know, you should know that it's the pricing of that is baked in and for good reason. I mean, they are doing a lot here. They're going in and being your salespeople. They're warehousing your book. They're being your logistics company. They're accepting the returns from the bookstore. So what distributors do is a lot.

Yeah, it is. And I think we usually like, you know, it's, it's magic. It goes from your book you're done with your book, you send it to the printer, and then it appears at the bookstore. And that's not the case. And I think that is, uh, that comes as a shock to a lot of people when they start looking at, you know, oh, I got it, I got a book deal and I get a, I get a royalty now. And then you were like, well, why do I get such a small royalty? And then you start really digging into it. There are a few books out there for people who are interested in how to, you know, profitable publishing and what have you. We have a few of those books on our Bookshop website, you know, if you really are interested in the nitty-gritty of it all. But you start thinking about it, it's like, wow, it really is a business. And it's a tough business to be in, especially if you don't have experience.

It is. And a big reason that that is such a tough, weird business is a thing called returns.

Oh my God, yes.

You know, I don't think most people realize that the book business is fully returnable at any time. Anytime, anytime you can get books back that you sold 10 years ago. And that has happened to me. I have at different places I've worked that has happened. And 9 times out of 10, you cannot resell those books. Books are tough to remainder these days. They're not, you know, the remainder business is not doing that great. And so that's another reason because you get, you get stuff back that ultimately has to be pulped. And then, you know, you've spent a lot of money shipping books and taking books back and. For nothing. So it's really a funky, funky business. And I would encourage anyone who works with any kind of publisher, when you get that first royalty statement, ask someone to walk you through it because they can explain how all those charges work and how distribution is baked into that so that you can see what the math looks like.

Right. Let's take a step back. What are remainders for all of our, you know, novice authors out there?

Oh, a remainder is when a book does get sent back from maybe a more traditional sales channel like B&N It maybe is a little beat up, so it's not quite nice enough to put back into the mix of the regular inventory. So there are companies that buy those and sell them, whether they sell them at used bookshops or they— there are a lot of remainder events around the country. I mean, not so much lately because of COVID but I think those will pick back up where it's like a book sale and it's at, you know, the Hilton in the ballroom or something, and you go and you peruse the books. A lot of what you see there are remainders and they're being sold at rock bottom, pretty much at cost prices because they got a nick on the COVID or the gut page ripped out. And that's what those are. Yeah.

They're slightly damaged, but they still need a home.

That's right. They're like people, you know?

Well, we like to think of them as people.

There's a little something wrong with them, but they're still—

Yeah, they're good. They're good. They're just a little disabled. All right, so it can get very interesting. And something that you brought up is, is returns. Okay, so we're talking distribution, and I know that Ingram and Amazon— Amazon's KDP and IngramSpark— if you are a self-published author, you can definitely activate your book, or however they want to call it.

They want to—

you can make it so that your book is available and sold worldwide. So then, all right, say, you know, you sell the book worldwide. It's, you know, being sent across the pond to the UK and you have some sales in Australia and you have some sales in Germany. Germany tends to buy a lot of English-written books.

Yeah.

You have some sales in Canada. You have, you know, a few sales everywhere, but then you get some returns because that does happen even when you're self-publishing. You know, what, what, what are some of the things that maybe authors need to consider when you're thinking about selling worldwide?

You mean just on, on the subject of returns, or just in general, like when you're writing the book?

Oh, I hadn't thought about that. I was thinking just on the subject of returns because, you know, it does come to a surprise that anyone would want to return a book. It does.

You know, I would say on, on that piece of it, my advice would be when you do get returns, just take a good look at them. Are, I mean, are they still in good shape? You can put them back in your inventory, but if they are kind of not the best and they are remainder worthy, let's say, you can resell those to companies like AbeBooks. You can go on, um, what's the other one? Is it, there are a couple of different sites where you can go online and sell your books directly through an app. Um, that's kind of similar to eBay, but for books.

Pango.

Bango, that's it. Um, there are quite a few of those out there, so you know, you can still make money on your book, you just may not make as much, right? Or, or you can use those for your giveaway copies or for review copies if you're trying to get your book reviewed, or if you want maybe to go speak at a convention and you need to send them a sample book, use them for those purposes, right?

I'd like to get a little sticker or a stamp that says, you know, review book or not for sale, just so that they know. It's like, hey, yeah, this might not be in the best condition, but it's still good material, right?

Now I have a question for you about distribution. When someone is trying to market their book and they're kind of looking and looking at their options, you know, do I want to work with the publisher, do I want to self-publish? When it comes to the distribution piece, do you find that the marketing approach for the author is slightly different? I know it is obviously for, for a publisher, like if you're working with a publisher, you're going to have some marketing people helping you, but not always, or at least not for everything, right?

So when it comes to marketing your book, obviously, you know, you see it in your royalties when you work with a traditional publisher. You have a team, they get a percentage, it's commission-based, and then, you know, they go out and sell. So when you're doing it yourself, you essentially have to be the publisher, the distributor, the sales rep, the everything. So I think that, you know, like we were saying earlier, if you're a self-published author and this is your first book or third book or a workbook or a planner, um, really think about who the audience is and where this book is going to be sold. Because if it's something that is, you know, something quick, maybe it's like a, like a digital planner, it can be just, you know, uploaded onto IngramSpark and it gets distributed and everything is super, super easy because it's all in one place. I would say that if you are looking to do marketing for a book that is intended to create more clients, then I would definitely consider a larger distribution. I love Ingram for this reason, um, because they allow you to do more than just the, the 6 or 7 keywords that Amazon, you know, does for you. And Ingram will distribute to Amazon, the libraries, the, um, the independent bookstores, all of the places that you didn't even know you could sell books at. It's pretty great to tap into that. But keeping that in mind, you know, you have to be smart about how you set up your distribution. So you can set up your distribution to be worldwide. So if you already know that you're speaking in Australia, you're going to New Zealand, you are that type of author, then it's worthwhile to turn those things on. But then you get into the, the, you know, the returns. And I think Ingram does a really good job of being very transparent about the fact that you can include like returns allowed, but then they get destroyed, which may make sense if you're seeing a lot of, a lot of sales in another country. You don't want to print them there and then have them shipped here because that's a cost.

Right?

Everything adds up. Everything is money.

Everything's money. It is. And speaking of money, we only have just a minute left, but I want to ask you, can you explain what Marketing Co-op is? Because that kind of is woven into the distribution piece too, a little bit.

Oh yeah, so Marketing Co-op is, is a very interesting thing. Amazon has their co-op, and then you have like smaller distribution and library co-ops that you can kind of have your publisher nominate your book for. So it means like it's an extra push during, you know, either a campaign. A lot of libraries— and you'll see this— we have like National Hispanic Month, Diversity Month, uh, BIPOC Month, the holiday season, gift season, etc. So there are these a lot of opportunities that are easily available through distribution that I think that if you kind of tap in, if you are a self-published author I mean, watch the retailers, watch the retailers and what they're doing, watch the bookstores and what they're doing and what they're celebrating, because I think that you could still piggyback on a lot of those things. And co-ops during, uh, with distribution, there is a fee, of course. And when you're doing it yourself, there's a fee of you doing it.

So, and basically marketing co-op is you're— it's kind of pay-to-play marketing. Within various stores, right? So like if a B&N is doing a special end cap for something, you have to pay to be a part of that. They don't just let you do it.

Or airports.

Oh my God.

Oh, that's a whole show.

Oh yeah, tune in next week when we talk about airports and why those bookstores are super expensive marketing.

Yeah, seriously, we'll talk about it. We will. That's a good show. Yeah, that's a good show. Yeah.

All right, so I think I'm, I'm officially spooked out. How about you, Jen?

I'm terrified. Yeah, let's do it.

Let's go sell some books.

Woo! Terrified in all the best ways, though.

Yes.

Absolutely.

If it doesn't scare you, it's not worth it.

Bingo. Absolutely right. Well, I'm scared to tell you, but our time's up. So, boop boop, this ends the show. But we will be back in a couple of weeks to talk more. Thank you so much to our producer, Paul Roberts, and our executive producer, Emily Carpenter-Pulskamp of Little Red Communications. We'll see you next time.

We hope that you gained some valuable insights into the world of book publishing. Head over to broadbookgroup.com to learn more about us and all our services, and be sure to check out all our social media @BroadBookGroup. Until then, keep publishing.