Ep. 38: How to Sell Your Books in Non-Bookstores (yeah, we’re talking airports!)

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your host Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey.

Hello, hello, everyone. How are you doing, Jenn?

Hello. Happy almost weekend. I am doing well. I'm ready for this weekend. I am locked and loaded and ready. How about you?

Oh, same, same, same, same. The holiday season, the spooky holiday season is kind of over. So now we're all turning our attention to Christmas because who thinks about Thanksgiving these days?

I know. I feel bad for Thanksgiving. Like, it's like the middle child that doesn't get the attention. Yet I love it. I love Thanksgiving. Like, it's just a nice, just a nice holiday. I don't have to go buy stuff. I can just, I can just eat pie and I can watch football. It's kind of great. Pie.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the— Cheesecake Factory has this really great pumpkin pie pecan cheesecake. I get my slice every year because, you know, too much is too much.

But right, shopping.

It's tis the season to go shopping. Tis the season to go out and buy all your Christmas presents before it's too late.

That's right. Tis indeed. I just, I, even though I say that I'm like not in the Christmas spirit yet, I did go and look at TJ Maxx yesterday and maybe went ahead and bought a few items. So I love it. I love going to weird stores. That's my favorite thing.

Well, and it, I think the season actually forces you to start thinking about like, okay, who is the person that's going to get this present or that present? So then you start going into specialty stores because you start thinking about the individual.

Right.

Then, you know, you walk into places like Urban Outfitters for the preteen that you, you know, you normally don't walk into an Urban Outfitters. You go into the REI, you go into the TJ Maxx, you go into all these wonky places that you normally wouldn't go to. And you know what they all have in common around this time?

Too much inventory. I don't know. Things I don't need. But love?

Yeah, yeah. But they also have books, is something that I've been noticing.

You do?

This is the most random thing when you walk in to get a preteen something at Urban Outfitters and then you see everything from your youth, like, I don't know, um, cassettes. I think cassettes at Urban Outfitters. But then you walk around and you see some books, some really beautiful coffee table books, right?

Right. Yeah, it's always interesting to me. In fact, on my TJ Maxx trip yesterday, I noticed they had some really beautiful cookbooks. They had like the Magnolia Table cookbook and, you know, some of those higher-end ones like the Chrissy Teigen one and just some really beautiful ones that they don't normally carry the other time of year. So I was psyched to see it.

Oh, yeah. And you know that, that, that's always the question that we get. It's like, okay, I have a great cookbook. And yes, it's cool to have it in at the bookstores and libraries and all the regular places. But what about, what about the HomeGoods? What about the TJ Maxx? What about, you know, I mean, even Costco, right?

What about your local, um, your local cookware shop? Like, if you have like a cooking store or something like that, um, I think that's something we should unpack today. Let's unpack some weird funky non-bookstore retailers and how you do it, how you get into those.

Yes, let's talk about it. So, hmm, this is a non-traditional conversation, right? It's a non-traditional— non— is that the right thing? Non-retail? No, but not, not your usual suspects, right?

Non-traditional retailers.

Thank you.

You're welcome. All right, teamwork.

Teamwork makes the dream work, especially on a Friday when you're just like, it's done, it's over. Um, okay, so earlier I had said I need to go into certain stores because I know certain people like certain things, but that is actually the mindset that you should have if you have a book that you think could be sold in a very particular or a specialty store, like, right? So you have to start thinking like, okay, what's in my neighborhood? What, what is, you know, what is the right place that you've had that relationship. And this is where you start thinking like a publisher, right? So let's give them an example of something that you and I are working on. You know, it's been kind of top secret for a minute, but we're getting ready to launch as a traditional publisher, and one of our books is actually a, uh, a running book. It's a running memoir. And it's interesting because it's like, oh, this could live outside of a Barnes Noble. It could live outside of a bookstore that is your corner mom-and-pop indie bookstore. So we start thinking about the individual, the runner. Where do they shop?

Where do runners run when they need things? I think they go to REI. I think they go to places like that. I am not a runner, as anyone who knows me can attest. But We're going to get into the mindset of the runner to figure out where else we can sell this book. And I think that's what, no matter what your book is about, that's what you need to do. You need to kind of go back to— oops, I just hit my mic. Sorry. Kind of go back to, you know, those early days when maybe you were writing your book proposal or you were trying to figure out what your book was. You thought about audience, right? So I think you kind of have to revisit that topic again once you're ready to go out and talk to retailers, you have to think, okay, who's my buyer? Who's my reader? Where do they go? What do they like? What don't they like? You know, are they HomeGoods, TJ Maxx people? Are they REI people? Do they like to shop at their local running store, for example, to go buy their shoes locally? You know, where do they go? What do they do? Even down to like, what are the restaurants they like to go to? Because all of these things kind of give you some good market insight into what that avatar is. For that ideal buyer. And that can help you then make some decisions about some of these funky, cool, different places that you can sell the book.

Oh yes, actually you said that, like food. I walked into a Pete's and they had their own book and I was like, wow, this is beautiful. It's, it's a how-to, like it was a history of the, of the bean and the process and, and how they do it. And it's, it was kind of interesting. But you think about it, you're waiting in line, you're seeing all the, uh all the instruments that you need to use, and then you see this beautiful little book and it's just like, you get that for your coffee lover, you're like, boom, done, Christmas shopping list done.

Exactly, exactly. And I think, you know, that brings up a good point, which is not only should you think about the audience and who your ideal reader is, but like, what are some adjacent— I'm not looking for— I'm not finding the right words today, it's Friday. What are some adjacent products that maybe would go well with your book. Yes, that can give you an idea where else to sell your book. So if we go back to the running book example, okay, we know that runners like to buy accessories, right? Maybe they like to buy like a CamelBak water thing, or they— and they obviously go buy shoes because they go through a lot of shoes, you know, they go through gear, um, you know, all of that stuff. So what are some stores that sell those things, or, or maybe somehow adjacent to those things where you can sell Right.

So, and that also helps you talk to the person who is buying the merchandise at those specific stores. And it's like, hey, my audience is very like, this is around the time of the year that they start gearing up for X, like the running season and the cold season for, you know, for runners that are out there running in the snow. God bless you. You know, maybe, you know, that's a really good place to position this book. It's really a conversation and educating the person who is also going to be the person to buy X number of books for their store. Or we can get into the weeds of like how to actually like how that money comes into play because I've heard and maybe you can help me with this because I know that you do some really fun stuff with, with some bigger companies like Menards. But I've heard of indie authors and self-published authors who have something that's very hyper-focused on like their community and they'll walk into a bookstore or a specialty store that's selling running shoes. And, you know, maybe the conversation is, yes, I can buy this book through your distributor, which is Ingram. If you are self-publishing, they will definitely do that. Or maybe they talk to you about a consignment, right?

Right. There, there's a lot of ways that you can do it. I think if you're working with a retailer like an REI, like, you know, it's a bigger, like, national brand retailer, yet kind of like non-traditional in the sense that it's not a bookstore. Most of those folks can work through your distributor, through the specialty sales team. Um, so anytime you see a book in Target, in, um, HomeGoods, in TJ Maxx, in REI, most of those are coming through bigger distributors like Ingram. There's a whole team dedicated to that. So they're, you know, they're funky and non-traditional in that they're not bookstores, yet they are still big retailers. But if you're going to talk to local folks, if you're going to talk to your local running store or your local cooking store, then yeah, just, just go in and make the intro. And normally they will, they will, they'll do one of two things. They'll either take them on consignment and say, hey, I'll take 10 books. You know, and if we sell them, then, you know, we'll pay you. Or they may just buy 10 and keep them on, on their floor. And so to do that, you kind of also have to think like a publisher again, as you mentioned before, and you have to give them a discount. They are not going to buy it for full price. So you're going to have to offer them, you know, maybe a 50% discount on the book to get it into their store. But 9 times out of 10, it's going to have really good placement. It's going to have good point of sale placement right by the register. I even went into my kids' karate studio this week and they were selling books written— they were written by the man who founded the karate studio. So, you know, you can buy a book anywhere. It's just a matter of making that relationship and, and seeing what makes financial sense for both parties. Yes.

Always know your numbers. And that's, that's the thing. It's like, don't take it and don't, don't get offended if they're like, hey, yeah, I don't— just don't have the space or this doesn't sell. That's a good conversation to have. Like, you should know what sells in their stores and that could just strike up a conversation like, hey, can I talk to the buyer? I'm a local author, this is what my book is about. And that's where a tip sheet comes into play. Um, you know, it's your one sheet that has a book cover on it and it has all the details on it— how long the book is, page count, trim size. It's, it's nice to have. It's an instructional manual for the person buying.

It is, absolutely. And You know, speaking of making those relationships, there are some other great venues that you can sell books at, um, that are very relationship-focused. And by that I mean associations and corporations. Yes.

And for our business authors, chances are you're already part of the associations and corporation, um, groups and networks that are likely going to buy your book. You just need to ask. And I think that a lot of people don't like asking.

I would agree with that. And maybe what they don't realize is that if they are a member of some kind of association that's related to their brand or their topic or their business, those associations typically offer, offer goodies, so to speak. So they offer discounts on advertising and maybe, you know, the big quarterly magazine that they put out, or they offer digital advertising and you can do fractional ads on the association webpage. And those things come at a discount to you because you are already a member. So I would really dig deep and see what your benefits are as part of that membership to see if you can maximize it for book sales in any way, shape, or form.

Oh yeah. Another idea, and we're just throwing out ideas because every book is different and every book, you know, deserves a special place. But if you are working with an association and you happen to be, you know, doing a speaking engagement with them, it's a really good idea to create a specialty edition for this event. So you can always discuss with the event coordinator and say like, hey, you know, I'd love to speak at your, your event. Would you be interested in buying 30 copies that we can, you know, maybe print a letter from the association president as a gift to the recipient? And those are really simple ways that you can create a special edition of your book, sell a copy of your book, And those are, those tend to be non-refundable, non-returnable. Sorry.

They do. And you know, you can tier the discounts for those people. I love doing this for associations or speaking events or corporate buys. You know, make it worth their while. So say, hey, you know, if you want to buy up to 100 copies, I'll give you a 30% discount. If you want to buy 1 to 300 copies, I'll go up to 45 or 50%, make it really worth it for them. Say, hey, if you take 1,000 copies, I'm going to give those to you for 55 to 60% off. Because again, this is not necessarily— I won't say it's not a moneymaker, it is, but it's more about volume and it's more about getting really strong reach when you're selling to associations and events and such. So always bake it in, always make it worth it for them. And you might even do kind of a Kickstarter-style situation there too, where you're saying, okay, if you buy 200 books, then I will do like a— I'll do a 30-minute virtual Zoom session with your teams. Or offer them little goodies that don't really cost you money, they just cost you maybe a little bit of your time, um, as lead gen. And then you can sell more books that way.

Oh yeah, absolutely. And as a disclaimer, I do want to note that we are talking about discounts to retailers. That discount is based off the MSRP, not your costs. So keep that in mind. That's how you make money.

Yep, exactly. Think like a publisher.

Always, always like a publisher. Make sure that your bottom line makes sense, and then make sure that your audience is the right audience, you know. Um, you'd be surprised where you can find a, a book randomly in a random store in a random place that you didn't expect. But let's talk about the place that we're always looking at books, you know, especially when we're traveling during the season and then our Kindle isn't charged or our ebook, you know, and we forgot our paperbacks, where do we go?

Oh, we go to everybody's favorite, the airport bookstore.

It's my favorite.

Best time stuck in the airport.

Yeah, you got that layover, you're gonna want to distract yourself for sure.

Yes. Oh my goodness, this is such a weedy topic. I can't wait to get into it. Let's break down the myth of airport book sales. Myth number 1 is that those sales are final.

Oof.

Ooh, they are not. And here's why. Most airport sales are pay-to-play. They are considered what we call in the business co-op, which means that you are paying them money to distribute— or not distribute, but to display. And unless you are like a Malcolm Gladwell or one of these people who are always in the bookstores. These are finite, limited opportunities. So you might get co-op for a month, you might get it for a season. And really the buy is not that big. The buy is maybe what, 500 to 800 units?

Yeah, across all the airports.

Right. So, you know, maybe 1 or 2 in every Hudson in major airports in the United States. So you pay to do it. Again, unless you're our already proven bigwig author. And it is, it is wonderful. It's great visibility. Your store, or your store, your book is in the stores. It's getting tons of foot traffic that they wouldn't normally see. So that's awesome. But I would never, never, never count on airport buy as something that's going to make you a ton of money because it's really a marketing opportunity more than a sales opportunity. Yes.

So you had mentioned actually, this is the best part. This is the— I don't want to say it's a gotcha, but this is something to consider. Your opportunity at the airport is for a limited time. So it's either you're contracted for a month or 3 months or depending on what season it is because books are sold in seasonality. But then what happens to your books, those 800, 500 copies that went out to all the Hudson stores in the US? After that month is over?

Uh, you're gonna get them back and they won't be in great shape. Spoiler alert. Um, they really, they really won't. So I think if being in an airport is important to you, and again, this is mostly for our business authors, cause that's the, other than fiction, that's the big get at airport bookstores, unless it's something very, you know, splashy nonfiction like the Magnolia Table book I think that I mentioned earlier, something that's got a very, very, very broad nonfiction appeal.

Nonfiction memoirs. It's the season.

Right. So like the Matthew Perry book, that one's going to be in airports. I guarantee it. Jason Kander's book is probably in a lot of airports, at least in the Midwest. So biography and books like that. But for business authors, you really have to think of it as, OK, this is a marketing opportunity for me. Yeah, and a signed one at that.

Oh yeah, and get ready to spend into the 5 and 6 figures depending on, you know, the outlet, and, and, and be emotionally prepared for when those books come back.

Right, right. Now I know a lot of authors who, they are also frequent travelers, and so they will go and they will stop in and they will offer to sign their book when it's in Hudson's And usually the people in Hudson's are very sweet, you know, they're, they're going to let you do it. And sometimes that means it won't get returned, but not always.

Yes, but if you do decide to do that, you know, and really this goes for anything, if you do decide to walk into a specialty store or local store that is somewhat, you know, topic adjacent, they have the ancillary products, is something that you're doing and that your book is related to, don't just ask them to carry your book, actually support the store. And that's, you know, shop local, shop indie. And that's something that we, um, you know, in, in the business are always pushing for because we need those extra outlets outside of Amazon, outside of Barnes Noble, outside of the traditional places so that, you know, more books get into the hands of people. I'd like to be, you know, optimistic and think like, yes, maybe book buying is down for a little bit, but that's because it's the holiday season. It's not because people stopped reading. People still read.

Oh, they absolutely do. And now's a great time to really see, to go out there and do a little research. If you're not quite ready to put your book out into those arenas, use this holiday season as your research time. Go out and see if they are selling other people's books. You know, if your local kitchen store is selling a local author's cookbook.

Yes.

Ask some questions, really use this time because this is— I mean, people are making, you know, 70% of their income. Many, many stores do in this 2 to 3 month period. And so now's the time they are also pulling out all the stops to sell stuff. So yeah, take notes, ask questions, make friends. And when you do get a bite and you do get either, you know, like an association or an independent store or whatever, to carry your book— as you mentioned, Vanessa Campos Campos Campos, make it a relationship. Don't make it transactional. Make it something that's going to last beyond the sale of this book. So amplify them on your own social media. Talk them up when you talk about where your book is being sold. Offer a buy link to their store if it's available. Make it a really good solid relationship so that when you come back to them to buy more they're gonna be more willing to do that and it won't be just one-time thing.

Absolutely. I, I think for Samantha Irby's last book, I'm on her newsletter, so she actually went in and signed a very limited quantity of books at her, um, local or one of her favorite indie bookstores. And in her email it said, buy copies from this bookstore and you will get a signed edition, and that's the only place. And that was just so great because it was like an independent bookstore that I'd never heard of. And I was like, yeah, okay, I'll support. And it's just like going to Amazon. It's just, you know, we need to shop local. We need to keep these things going because we all need a place and a home. And, you know, take advantage of the fact that Barnes Noble is now shopping hyper-local. They are looking for local authors, not just Barnes Noble, but like Books-A-Million. If you're in Canada, Indigo.

Right. Absolutely. The options are just absolutely endless. And so, you know, I always say never try to throw— just throw spaghetti to the wall and see if it sticks. Like, do your research. So do that. Really make yourself a student of how these different booksellers work and associations and conferences, if that's your jam, if you're a conference person. Just get in, get in the weeds and see what you find. If it only moves 100 books, that's fine, you're moving 100 books, but you're reaching more and more people by just making those interactions.

100%. Never stop selling. Never stop selling.

Always be closing.

Oh, that's it. Always be closing. And yeah, I would— if you're thinking about this being the holiday season, I would definitely look at the way that retailers— just, you know, just a little tidbit— look at how retailers start selling you merchandise for Christmas in July because that's the right time to do it. That's the right time to get in front of people. The, you know, the seasonality, yes, it is at the end of the year, but it starts in the middle of the year.

It does.

It's a wonky place.

It's very wonky. And you know what, speaking of that, here's a, here's a last minute tip. All of those catalogs that we get in the mail for holiday stuff, they're kind of funky, random, you know, like the ones that used to be on the airplanes. I forget what those were called. It was just like such a random—

Sharper Image?

Yeah, that was one. There was another one. I forget what it was. But anyway, there are all kinds of catalogs that go out that are for different kind of specialty groups. Like, you know, there's some that are toy catalogs or cooking catalogs. I just got my Zabar's catalog this week. I'm very excited. So if you have a book that might be a good fit for like a certain holiday gift guide, why not? You know? Shoot them an email, see how you can pitch it, and maybe you can get into some really great catalog spaces too.

Oh yeah, the snail mail is a good place to be.

It still goes, it still sells. Well, I think that, that—

I think that was a lot of information for, for the audience for today. It's, it's, it's a very good topic, you know. Think outside the box, think outside the box, retailers, and go talk to your indie bookstore sellers. An indie specialty. So go talk to your mom and pops is basically what we're saying.

Yep.

Choices are not just bookstores and Amazon. Go out there, explore, have a conversation.

Do, and let us know how it goes. Drop us a note. We're on socials. We're @ProdBookGroup. Let us know where you're selling your book right now and how that's working out for you.

Yes, please.

Well, I'm off. I'm off to go find a cocktail. So have a great weekend. Uh, we want to thank our producer Paul Roberts, uh, and our executive producer Emily Carpenter-Poleskamp of Little Red Communications. And thanks to my dog Maple, who snored through this entire show, and you can probably hear it.

It was a nice little hum.

It was. We'll see you next time.

We hope that you gained some valuable insights into the world of book publishing. Head over to broadbookgroup.com to learn more about us and all our services. And be sure to check out all our social media @BroadBookGroup. Until then, keep publishing.