Ep. 40: Overcome Procrastination and Unlock Your Writing Potential with Lisa McFadden

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your host Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey.

Happy New Year! Happy New Year, Vanessa Campos Campos Campos!

Happy New Year, Jen! I've missed you.

I've missed you too. We've been on a bit of a holiday pod hiatus and replaying a couple of oldies but goodies as we all went off and did our individual celebrating. So did you have a good holiday?

I did. It was nice. It was quiet and it was actually wet. I'm in Southern California and we had rain. It's weather.

You had weather. That's wild.

Yeah, we got lucky. There's no floods. But apparently, as of 5:30 yesterday morning, California is no longer in a severe drought. We're just in an okay drought.

All right, congrats. Thank you, guys. That's great. New year, new you for everybody, California included. Well, speaking of new year and new you, um, which I think January always brings those thoughts comes to people's minds that they're making those resolutions, and they may have already broken some of them. I know I have. But one thing that writers love to think about is getting that book started or picking that project back up or just kind of re— reframing how they think about their projects and writing and getting into the right mindset to start the new year off right. So let's talk about that today. Let's talk a little bit about how you do that, the writer's mindset.

Yes, let's do that, because I, I've been in book publishing the majority of my career now, and I've always thought like I would write a book. Boy, that is not the case. That is not the case. And I think I'm, I'm at my— I'm, I'm at fault. I just can't get into that mode.

I know. Well, how long have you and I been talking about writing books? Of our own, and at least 3 years now.

I was gonna say 5.

Have we done it yet?

Um, just— I started an outline.

Yeah.

Then I saw something shiny.

Yep, exactly. And then we saw a squirrel, and that was the end of that. So we, we need— we need this pod, I think, just as much as anybody else needs it. So let's bring on our guest. Our guest today is Lisa McFadden. She's the founder and coach of The Writer's Mindset. She helps writers overcome self-doubt and design their lives to support their writing goals and their aspirations. She's an award-winning filmmaker and screenwriter, film festival journalist, and programmer. When not helping others with their writing, she's at work on her own projects. Lisa lives in Texas with her rescued cat Wednesday. Hi, Lisa, welcome to the show.

Hi, great to have you.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you.

It's our pleasure. We're so excited to talk to you today. I think So many times on the podcast we talk a lot about the businessy parts of publishing, and, uh, which is all very good and important and what we know how to talk about, but talking about how you actually get into the right mindset to write is something, um, I don't think we've covered on the show. So we're thrilled to have you.

Oh, thanks.

So could you tell us a little bit about your background and how you got into this kind of work, helping other writers get into the right mindset? Sure.

Um, so first of all, yeah, so I'm a writer and then I also have a background in psychology. I have a fascination with both. Um, but I had started writing screenplays like all during the time that I was working as a journalist for film festivals and so forth. And so I moved to LA to pursue that dream. Um, while I was there, I started making films, I wrote a ton of spec episodes for TV pilots and stuff. Eventually the rules of everything started to set in and the competitive environment and nature that people like to think doesn't exist, but of course it does. Sure. Then I was just kind of in a negative environment. My day job was very negative. Very stressful, surrounded myself with people who were always like, oh, this is hard. It's terrible. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. And I let that with my own inner critic just kind of shut me down altogether. And the thing was, was that I knew that I needed some kind of assistance, and I knew that I was capable of reaching a goal of writing again. But I couldn't find that. Like, I didn't need a therapist because I'm not worried about, like, handling my past. I wanted somebody who was going to help me, not just a writing teacher, because I didn't really need to know how to write. I needed to know how to get back into it and how to get out of these blocks. So fast forward to 2021, in the middle of the pandemic, I was yet again in an extremely stressful day job, and it was just time to leave and work for myself. And I was working with a mindset coach, and it had the byproduct of like releasing this whole block, and I was able to write and I felt better. And so I left the job and I became the coach that I couldn't find. So, um, yeah, it is a very, very specified niche. I, I know, um, because, uh, people come to me and they're like, I don't really understand. I'm like, I'm not going to teach you how to write and I don't give you notes, but you're going to write while you're with me and I'm going to walk you through all that mind junk and there's a process to it. That you can overcome it and you can begin to separate from identifying with it. And it's really just also helping you become in your mind the writer that you are trying to become. So, but you become them now so that you can reach those goals. You don't complete goals by telling yourself, I'm struggling, it's hard, I can't do it. It's changing those thoughts so that you can reach that goal easier. Because you're not going to be— when you have a finished product, when you've written a book, your books, you're not like, oh, I can't do it, I don't have time. Of course you can, because you've done it, right? So, but it's getting into that mindset now so that you can do it. So the long and short, that's what I do.

That's amazing. I just, I'm so fascinated by it. Can you tell us a little bit about— I don't want you to have to give away all of your trade secrets necessarily, but Like, how does that work when someone works with you? What's the, what's the process like? Do you, do you meet with them? Is it online? Is it a little bit of everything?

Yeah, we meet over Zoom. And, uh, while I have kind of a predefined program, it's also tailored for the writer because I've worked with people who've never written and they've always wanted to write a book and it's been in their head forever. And then I've worked with people who are already professionals who've been paid to write, but they ran into a block and they haven't written. It's a predefined program where there's a 5-step process using cognitive behavioral therapy to— it's a model of beginning to see how your thoughts, your current thoughts, are bringing your current result. So we work through that, and all during this time you're going to drive into and through your first draft. Now, I work in a 3-month container, but I advise that people who are writing books extend that and go 6 months because you're not going to get through a full draft of a book in 3 months unless you're just amazing. But I have yet to see that. I would love to see that.

We would too.

Yeah, I would love to be that writer. But, um, uh, yeah. And so we move through that and then we also work on, uh, mindfulness, which is bringing yourself back into the present moment all the time, because shiny thing, new idea, new this, new that, is because you're uncomfortable in looking at what you're doing right now. You can't— your brain is tired, you're trying to figure it out. And so the brain is like, no, let's do something fun. Let's, let's relax. Let's eat some ice cream or watch TV. And oh, I'll think about it then. And no, you won't. Right. So, and then before you know it, a day and a day and a day and all these days go by. So we do that. We also look at cleaning out social media and reducing negative triggers. So not watching news. Why are you following people that make you feel less than? You know, all these things that feed your inner critic that tell you— memes. There's tons of writing memes about how hard writing is. Stop looking at them. Just stop. It's okay. Like, you're— it's going to be fine. You're going to be fine. Everybody, all my clients come back after they do this and they're like, my God, I feel so much better. And it's like, yes. Like, you don't need to just like shut off social media. You just need to like cleanse it. Negative family members, just mute them. So anyway, we go through that, um, you know, because they'll get mad. I'm looking at Vanessa Campos. They'll get mad if you just like, you know, unfriend them or whatever. So we do that. And then, um, usually about halfway in, writers are like, oh my God. And they're, they're already writing. So they're already feeling motivated, they're writing. And then we start getting into like, um, forgiving yourself because you're learning what your writing process is. So sometimes that procrastination is part of your process. Sometimes that anxiety you're feeling is part of your process, and it's forgiving yourself and building self-compassion and understanding that those things are part of your process. Then once we get through that, we start finding out where you write. We set up your environment. So that could be a room in your house, that could be, um, a specific coffee place that you like to write, um, a park where you like to sit and write. Wherever it is that you're most comfortable, that's going to get you going. We set up a protocol so that you're ready. A lot of the issues that you have when you're trying to write is that you're trying to make decisions in the moment. So we learn how to make decisions ahead of time. We set up a process of like, here's what I have to do every time. Some people need a lot of structure and then some people don't. So, so that's the part where it's kind of tailored to you and everything. So then once we get through to the end, you're not listening listening to your head so much as you're listening to your gut. And the head is going to try to make decisions like, no, that storyline's not going to work because this— nobody's buying that, nobody wants to read that, blah, blah, blah. When it's really just, you need to shut that off and become a channel and just write out whatever it is that's coming and let the characters do what they want. Even if it's a business book, of writing out what really wants to be said and being okay with that, because it's the vulnerability that people are going to connect with in your writing. And that's what you're trying to keep from happening. So I guess really what we're driving towards, um, I had a problem for a long time with being vulnerable in my writing and I thought I was, but it was because I used to write and I was very vulnerable. And I was humiliated for it and ridiculed all through school, even afterward. And so I began thinking, "Oh no, I can't write. This is so embarrassing." So I tried to write like everybody else, and then I just stopped. So, but then I found my way out of it. And it wasn't until I had a writing instructor tell me, you know, this was a great story, but You know, and all these bad things, you know, bad thing is happening, but we don't feel how you felt in the moment. And so then that's what began this whole long journey of, uh, of coming back to it and developing this program to help people. You know, once I broke through, I was like, oh my God, writers need to know about this. Like, right. They need to know about it. So, so here I am.

So here you are. I love it. You, you mentioned procrastination a couple of times, and I think that's a really important puzzle piece to, to what sometimes keeps people, uh, maybe it's not so much what keeps people from writing, but it's kind of the catalyst. A lot of things catalyze that procrastination, right? You know, a lot of, as you mentioned, a lot of different things can cause it, whether it's fear, whether it's just kind of feeling lost or not having your thoughts together. Can you talk a little bit more about those procrastination behaviors and how people can maybe work toward overcoming those a little bit?

Yeah. Yeah. It's, you know, I know people come to me and they want like very, uh, practical kind of solutions because we want everything fast. We want to just fix it, you know, make it okay, but it involves work. Um, and for procrastination, first of all, it's identifying what you're procrastinating and why you're procrastinating. So, and usually this sort of a fear that, you know, for me, I'll speak for me. So I had this fear that was going to be hard or I didn't know what to do next. I don't know where this story is or I don't, you know, I'm trying to rethink what I have to do. But instead, what helps me get through it is in my phone, in iNotes, I'll keep a piece of the story that I'm working on and it'll trigger. All I have to do is read it and suddenly I'll be able to like, oh, okay. But procrastination, a lot of the time, yeah, you're avoiding. When we're coming from the brain, your brain doesn't want to work. And I was just listening to another podcast that a friend of mine sent me where the guy was talking about your brain actually is, you know, can be regarded as a muscle and it does get tired. And if you're not working at like training yourself to do this behavior at a regular, you know, interval, or how to get over the procrastination, which is just sitting in that discomfort, because that's what we're avoiding. If you're not doing that, then your, your brain actually will fatigue. And then that's why, like at the end of your workday, you're just like, oh, I, I can't, you know, you're not thinking very clearly when really you can have a 20-minute nap or meditation and you'll snap right back into it. But your brain doesn't want to do that. It wants dopamine all the time. And now we live in a culture and a society where we're getting dopamine hits off of TikTok, like in 3-second intervals. And we weren't designed like that, but we're being configured in that way, so to speak. So it's just like your brain is learning this fast result. And so sitting down and doing something like thinking, like just pondering, think about, you know, like, well, I'll get to that in a minute, but just sitting and just feeling how uncomfortable it is to just sit. And stare at the screen, at your document, at whatever you're trying to think about. It's work and your brain's like, no, I don't want to do it. I don't want to think about it. Like, let's go watch TV. You can think about it while you're watching TV and you won't. So you just continue to procrastinate unless you like actually have to train. And there's like all this science, like in Atomic Habits, and there's tons of science out there that talking about how you have to retrain your brain to do the work that you're wanting it to do. But there's also another piece, Jen. A lot of the time we think we're procrastinating when we really do need the downtime. Right. And we're trying to live up to this productivity model, you know, that we have where we're just working all the time. There's just no rest time. You know, and your rest time and your walks and your time with your family and your time just vegging in front of Netflix can be actually very, very conducive to relaxation, to helping restore— what am I trying to say? Just helping you relax. Like, you need that in order to be creative. You have to have that downtime. You can't just be like thinking about your story like all the time, right?

And don't you feel like maybe the pandemic has made that even worse because the boundaries are so thin and sometimes nonexistent now between home life and work life? And, you know, for so many people, they, they went from working in an office every day and having hard boundaries or going to that coffee shop to write, and then all of a sudden, you know, they were just at home for all of it. At least I can't speak for other people, but I know that was something really hard for me and kind of made that feel like I needed to always be super productive all the time. And I lost some of that just thinking time, right?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. I was thinking just recently about, I was like, wow, you know, when I was younger, I would just daydream all the time, which now is creative visualization, right? But I would just daydream like all the time. I would just put headphones on and listen to music and just be like, you know, stare into space. Come up with 1,000 stories, and it was never a problem to just like sit down and start writing them out. But, you know, when we talk about distractions now, I mean, they are all around us. We have to learn how to adapt to them. And yes, back to your— yeah, the pandemic, we just lost all boundaries. And that's part of what drove me out of my job, was there just were zero boundaries. People were working at 3 AM. I mean, it was just a constant, no downtime. And a lot of the time we, you know, that made us start feeling guilty if we weren't working. Like, when do I have time to write? Like, I can't write. I should be working. If I'm awake, I should be working. If I, you know, this sort of a thing. And so, yeah, it did. It really, we just lost the boundaries of like, when, where's the start and the end? When do I relax? Oh, and so, so that's a really good point because we may still be moving at this kind of pace of just like, well, now why aren't I as productive? So especially people who have like, you know, I've seen a lot of creators like on TikTok who just exploded during the pandemic and now it's kind of imploding, you know, coming back down and they're just like, well, what do I do now? I was so productive and now I'm not. And Now it's different. You know, there's all the other things to take into consideration too, that, you know, you'll get blocked or procrastinate too because your, your situation has changed. Maybe you change jobs, maybe you change— I bring this up because I've talked to some writers lately that have come and they're like, well, I need help. I'm not as productive as I was, or I want to write and I can't anymore. And it's like, well, why? Well, I changed a job. And I really like my old job because every day it's such a clock. I could write. I'm like, well, how long have you been in a new job? 2 weeks. Like, okay, so you're probably going to need a little more than 2 weeks to kind of like get in the mode and figure it out and just feel what's right. And that again, that's that I need to be productive right now. Where's the fix? Tell me when to do it. So But yeah, it's, um, yeah, anyway, I feel like I'm rambling, but no, this has been incredible.

It's almost like a therapy session because you're talking and I'm like, yeah, I do that. Yeah, okay, I do that.

And if you're thinking, you're like, I should stop doing that.

And you're right, it is. I find myself, so I do a lot of the, the social media posting for, for the brand. And I always find myself procrastinating, not because I don't know what to say, but because I always fear that what I'm— how I'm saying it is wrong. And I found, as you were saying all the things, you know, like, yeah, okay, you get bombarded with all these ways, like how to blow up on TikTok, how to say the right things, how to, how to position the right things. And everyone is out there saying, this is what's, you know, this is what's trending, this is what you have to do, this is how you have to do it. And so it kind of creates these blocks in front of you and you're not realizing because you're thinking like, oh, I'll get that. It's a $39, you know, quick template of something and I could just borrow that. But you're really losing yourself in that. And if it doesn't match what that person is telling you to do, then you kind of feel like, is this good enough? Is this working? And with social media, it's just like, it's such an emotional cockblock, I feel. It's just like, I want to get to that. We have a voice. Everyone has their voice, right? And just like you were saying earlier, you know, it's not so much in like what the story is, but you lose yourself if you're no longer putting yourself into that. And that procrastination about it is just like Yeah, you hit a lot of— you, you hit a lot of spots for me today is what I'm saying.

100%.

Yeah. Yeah, it happens. Yeah.

Well, and I also love the fact that, you know, you, you knew what you needed for yourself and you became your own hero. You figured it out with the help of others, but then you're like, no, this isn't just right. And then you turned it around and made it into a business. And I love that. A lot of writers don't know that they need this. They don't know. They think it's just a writer's block. And I think it's like, the writer's block real, or is it just another form of procrastination? Because I don't want to do it because I'm afraid that people are— what people are going to think, how they're going to say, like, perceive me, and are they going to want to buy my services? And that's essentially like, you just kind of have to get over it and just do it.

Mm-hmm.

Doing it. What is it? Scared. And sometimes good enough is just good enough and doesn't have to go through that umpteenth version of proofreading if it's just gonna be on someone's social media feed for like a blip.

Exactly.

I will never forget some of the best advice I ever got from two of my dear professors. I was trying to get my dissertation done. I was so upset. I was going through all of this. I needed you back then, Lisa. Where were you? And they said, Jen, 'Just remember, a good dissertation is a done dissertation.' And I was like, 'Right, I'm just gonna get it done and yeah, and go from there.' Yeah.

And a lot of what we do, Jen, and I know that you mentioned this earlier, is we help people get to that process of going through the editorial copy editing of a manuscript. But if you don't have a manuscript, we can't help you.

Exactly.

Just have a beautiful idea, and that's where Lisa comes in.

Yeah, so come to me. You have a beautiful idea, you need a manuscript, come to me.

All right, and where can people find you, Lisa? What's the best way to get a hold of you?

Yeah, so right now the main primary place is Instagram, so, uh, and it's @thewritersmindset. That is the main place, and their link There's a bio link in there that will take you other places. I do have, um, a workshop next week on goal setting and time management for writers. It's a 2-day workshop. We've already got 20 people signed up.

Great.

Yes. Yeah.

I'll have to sign up for that.

Awesome.

Well, we'll get you a couple more here. All right.

Yeah.

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a real pleasure. We've so enjoyed it, and, uh, we hope you'll come back and see us again really soon to talk about this a little bit more.

I'd love to. Thank you so much.

Thanks everybody for joining us. Everybody have a good weekend. Vanessa, have a great weekend. And we want to thank our producer Paul Roberts of OC Talk Radio and our executive producer Emily Carpenter-Poles Campos of Little Red Communications. We'll see you next time.

We hope that you gained some valuable insights into the world of book publishing. Head over to broadbookgroup.com to learn more about us and all our services. And be sure to check out all our social media @BroadBookGroup. Until then, keep publishing.