Ep. 5: What Makes a Book Cover Good?

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your host Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey.

Hello everyone, welcome to the Pub Date podcast. Hey Vanessa, how's it going?

I, you know, it's going great. It's Friday, so I love Fridays. How's it going, Jen?

Oh, same. I'm ready to have a little bit of a cocktail, have my own little personal pub date here very, very shortly. But before we do that, this is exciting. We have a guest today.

We do. He's an honorary Book Broad.

He really is. He really is. He's, he's one of our behind the scenes honorary Book Broads. We're so happy to have him here. Andrew Wieliczko, how are you today?

I am doing really well. Thank you. Thank you for having me on the show.

Oh, it is our pleasure. So I want to give our guests, just our listeners, a little bit of a background as to who you are. Andrew's an award-winning graphic designer. He's got 25 years of experience creating brand and editorial-focused design for everything: advertising, marketing, publishing, identity development. Since founding Abandoned West Creative in 2009, he's designed over 150 book covers and interiors for clients ranging from the Big Four to self-published authors. He lives in Boulder, Colorado with his lovely wife, daughter, and irascible cat Isabella, or Isabelle, sorry. Andrew, welcome to the show. We're going to talk about book covers today.

Great, I am excited to talk about book covers because I think it's, it's at times somewhat of a mysterious subject. People either think they're a lot more complicated than they are or not nearly as complicated as they really are. So it's a nice opportunity to share some of the behind the scenes of how a cover comes together.

Absolutely. It's a whole other world, I think, and a part of book publishing, as you mentioned, that not everybody understands. They think that maybe it just magically happens. So fill us in a little bit. I'd like to know a little bit about your work. Tell us a little bit about types of books that you've worked on and just give us a bit of background on you.

Sure.

Um, I, you know, book covers, as, as sort of your introduction suggested, is, is part of sort of a large menu of things I do, but covers are what I have, and book structure in general is what I've come to focus on over the last few years, because partially as sort of my reaction to— as a lot of people and a lot of media has gone very digital and people think of the web as the primary way people communicate these days— is that I, you know, found something very comfortable about books, whether— and that includes ebooks. Is there something— there's a balance to the textural quality of books that I think is a nice counterpoint to a very digital and video-focused media landscape. And that's kind of what really interested me as a designer more and more so, it's an ability to contribute some texture to a landscape that can sometimes feel a little cold and a little less purposeful. And another thing that has attracted me and kept me interested in working on books is that there's an opportunity to work either with larger organizations, you know, certainly bigger publishers who work on higher volume and work on books that are more commercial in nature, and having the opportunity to work with self-published authors at the same time. I can kind of chart my own course, and it's an opportunity to, to watch people realize, realize a dream. I mean, publishing a book for a lot of people still feels like this really magical It's something that they get to hold and consider and put a lot of creative and thought effort into. And guiding people along that pathway is really fulfilling. And so it's an interesting counterpoint against more, I guess, commercial goals and more individual goals, depending on who I choose to work with. And so that's why I've kind of focused my talents in this area right now, because I think it's a unique opportunity and it's a nice counterpoint. To a lot of other opportunities right now.

Absolutely. And, you know, I think you bring up a really good point, which is the magic part of it. And to so many people, book publishing remains somewhat mysterious, which is one of the reasons I think we're doing this podcast, so that we can sort of, you know, kick down some of those barriers and shine a little bit of a light on what we do and what you do. And so talking about that magic part for just a second, What do you think makes a book cover magical?

That's a really good question and kind of a difficult question to answer. I think it comes back to the cliché about judging a book by its cover. A cover at its best is very representational. It has a lot of weight in terms of what the book itself represents. If you think about fiction is it sets mood and it sets tone and whether the book is, is it a murder mystery? Is it a thriller? Is it romance? And you think about how covers reflect the styles of books. And they're very emotive and evocative. And I think anything that connects to emotion immediately becomes kind of mysterious and kind of interesting how the design and how the title photography or illustration tap into certain emotional cues in a person. I think if you look at nonfiction, I don't think those cues go away because books are— can be very weighty. They can tackle subjects that are difficult and political and social or things that are more informational. And I think people connect to the subjects of books to a lot of personal journeys, and the way— the extent to which a successful cover can help tap into some of those ideas and can connect people to information makes them very powerful. And I think that's why people view them with a bit of mystery and a bit of magic, because they become these very powerful symbols of knowledge and of ideas and of stories, and it makes them— It makes them unique in that regard, I think, in terms of media. They carry a lot, and they can either be very successful or not successful, as the case goes. But hopefully at their best, they provide a doorway, a doorway to a lot of different emotions and ideas and experiences for a reader or for an author.

I love what you said there, because, you know, I think for us, obviously, you know, we work in nonfiction primarily, that's mostly what we've done with you in the past. And, you know, nonfiction books can be evocative of emotion in that way. Just like you said, I mean, if you were, if you're on a journey, if you're on a personal journey, you're looking for something, you know, that piece is still there. Nonfiction doesn't have to be something that is dry or informational only or a resource book, right? So how do you parse that out in nonfiction covers especially? It's a challenge.

It's certainly a challenge. I would agree with you. I think, I mean, and I think you touched on the idea that a nonfiction book doesn't necessarily lack any of the same evocative qualities that a fiction title might. It just does it in different ways. It connects to, it connects to knowledge, and that knowledge represents things that people want. I mean, you can look at something as simple as a book that is about a person starting a business, for example. And it may contain a lot of very practical and frankly dry information, but the idea of someone starting a business is incredibly exciting, and it can be scary, and it can be exhilarating. And there's no reason why the book itself or the COVID to the book can't tap into the emotions that a reader is having about a subject they need more information on, or the author trying to trying to draw people into their ideas or their methodologies. And I think those are all emotional constructs, not exclusively, but I think it'd be a mistake not to consider that as part of— as part of the journey that a cover takes, regardless if we're talking about fiction or nonfiction.

Absolutely. No, I agree with that. And, you know, I think that that piece is just always there. So I guess that the It kind of rolls me into my next question, which is, what do you think are some of the key things a really great cover should have? Knowing that not every cover is the same and they obviously don't have similar goals, but what are some non-negotiables that you feel like good covers have?

You know, I thought about— I actually specifically thought about this question a little bit ahead of time. I figured it would be coming. And I distilled it down to two ideas, and that is structure and purpose. Because the COVID occupies this very sort of evocative place in the structure of a book is I think a cover needs to communicate a lot of information very quickly. Whether it's scrolling by on a page in an online bookseller or it's something that if you're lucky enough you see in your local bookstore is a book needs to immediately say quite a bit. And the only way you're going to be able to do that is if the book has a clear structure to it, that it adheres to certain ideas about how it communicates information that are respectful of people's time and attention spans. And by purpose, actually, I'm speaking less to the COVID itself and that process, but to the author behind it and an author's understanding of their subject and of their audience and of what they're trying to accomplish with their book. What is their, what is their one-sentence pitch for the point of their book, and are they able to communicate that to a book designer, and is the book designer able to realize that on the COVID So the purpose of the book is very clear, and that doesn't mean it can't be a little mysterious, and it doesn't mean it can't have some whimsy or some play and force someone looking at the COVID to think, through a little bit, and in fact, some of my favorite books do that, but the purpose still needs to be there, and it needs to be something that is well considered. You can't— I guess another way of putting it is you can't stumble on a great cover. It has to come from a lot of thought and a lot of distilling ideas down to the core concepts.

You know, when I think about it in that way, it makes me think about all of the stakeholders. Who are involved in making these decisions about what does make a good cover and what's going to be a sellable cover. And it's often a different conversation depending on the size of the publisher and who all's involved, right? And we've been in many of those, many of those conversations together. And, you know, when you, when you bring the author into the conversation, that's always a bit of a wild ride, uh, because Vanessa's laughing too, she knows. But you know what I'm saying? I mean, they've definitely got, you know, ideas about what they want on a cover, but But you bring the knowledge of having designed several covers and knowing that some things are not going to work in the marketplace. And that's always a fun conversation to have, right? I mean—

Absolutely. And I think that's why I thought about what makes a good cover is, again, thinking of structure and purpose. And even if an author maybe has ideas that aren't realistic in a practical way, or, you know, comes from not necessarily a position of, um, position of knowledge about how a cover comes together, if they have a clear sense of their purpose, that's going to be a foundation that the COVID can be built on, even if there are some— I guess I'm at a loss of the word I'm looking for— even if there are some hard conversations to be had about what's practical and what makes for an aesthetically or a practically pleasing cover. If we can at least build on something that is sensical and rooted in the knowledge of the book, I feel like every other problem is there.

Right, right. That always shines through on your covers. So I've got to say that, you know, that's always something that I look forward to seeing on your covers. You parse that out of people, and that's one of your amazing talents among many that you have. So—

Thank you.

When we're talking about to-dos and not to-dos and goals for covers, what are some mistakes that you see on covers? Self-published or traditional, doesn't matter. I mean, give us a little bit of the— give us a little dirt here. Like, what do you see that you're just like, oh my God, no, don't do that?

You know, it's hard for me to separate that from, from pet peeves versus what are, what are true cardinal sins. And there is some overlap on that, on that, that diagram. So take, take, take some of these ideas, I think, with a grain of salt because they do represent things that me personally as a book designer just drive me up the wall a little bit. But I think the biggest sin for me is trying to communicate too much or lacking in focus. I think a lot of times, especially self-published authors, I think this is less of an issue with more commercially focused books, but especially authors who are trying to DIY, is they put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into their book, and they can't help themselves in terms of how they want to put those ideas on a cover. And a cover at its best needs to focus in on, again, a few key, well-conceived, well-considered ideas. And sometimes covers will have testimonials and a title and a subtitle and a co-subtitle, and then you know, a splash, and then sometimes, you know, and to a certain point, some of those things can be used for humorous effect, I suppose, but less is more, as in all things. Book covers are not immune to that idea. Another idea that just, another thought that just popped into my head is self-promotion versus idea promotion. And again, this to me is, I don't know, I guess this can, you know, you talked about sort of the difficult conversations with authors sometimes about covers, and especially authors who have a very strong brand and a very strong identity that they've worked very hard to develop, they become a little more focused on promoting that identity with their book than necessarily promoting the ideas of the book. I mean, I get that. I understand where that comes from. The people who are predisposed to do that as authors, I think, have learned that there's, you know, you never stop promoting. You're developing your brand, and I can respect that, but it very immediately, I think, isolates that book as being thin, is the word I would use. Sometimes what that tells me is if there's a lot of focus spent on the individual identity and not the idea of the book, is there aren't many ideas in the book, and that's unfortunate because I think even regardless if people have tremendous brand development or are still getting their arms around that idea. They have important ideas that a book can help them illustrate and expand upon and share with the world. And if you become too focused on your own identity, your ideas suffer. And I think those books are pretty easy to spot when they become more of a business card than they become a set of ideas. This comes purely as a pet peeve, so take it or leave it, I guess, is book cover designs that very clearly and obviously coattail on more popular books or books that are well-known in the marketplace. And the best example I can think of, and I think Vanessa, you and I have shared this idea before, and probably you and I, Jen, is Malcolm Gladwell's books, which I know are excellent, amazing reads and are popular for very good reason. And then everyone lined up and said, I want my book to look exactly like Mr. Gladwell's books. And that doesn't make you as popular or as well written or as well conceived or as deep or anything. And that's an idea that will never go away. And it's an innocent idea. I get why people do that. They see something they like. You just have to be careful because you are not that other author and you are not writing that other book. And it's okay to be influenced by things, and it's okay to take an idea and then veer in a different direction with it, but you can't copy it. And I have been asked many times by clients to say, I want it to look exactly the same, I want the same graphic, I want the same typeface. And that's not a book cover. That's a, you know, that's flattery, and flattery is wonderful, but that's not how you, again, develop and promote and isolate your ideas as unique. So I would say those are probably what I think are the most obvious problems that I see quite often, unfortunately. But, and I think are all easily avoidable, to be honest.

So I have a question for you, Andrew. Yeah, I'm actually in a conversation with an author regarding their cover and they've, they've, you know, they've developed about 5 different book titles over the years, and their covers are pretty simple. And talking about cardinal sins, one of the things that they've requested was, I don't want my bio, I don't want my name on the COVID Um, for me as a marketing person, I think that's a cardinal sin, but I'm, I'm wondering if there is in, in listening to you talk about, you know, having too much and maybe not enough. And I would love listening to and reading your— what basically ended up being a thesis for every cover you designed for us, which I love because then it armed me with the right things to say to an author and the reasons, you know, for the placement of things is I have no idea how to tell this author like, you need your name on this book. Have you ever come across a series of books? And I'm trying to think, like, has there ever been— I mean, other than the Bible?

Well, yeah, yeah, even then King James had got his way. So, you know, that's, that's fascinating. I'm— I was trying to think, I'm just running through the Rolodex in my head. Has that ever happened? And it's, it's always the opposite problem, is people who are like, okay, make my title smaller so my name can be bigger.

It's—

that's the conversation I usually have to have is let's respect the hierarchy of a cover. I know you're important and you're special and so are your ideas, but let's let people know what they are before we let people know who you are. You know, when you've made it and you're, you know, selling a million books a year, then yes, your name can be the biggest thing on the book because people are just going to buy it by name. But I honestly have never run into that, and it's interesting to to me. I'm not, as a designer, I mean, I consider this from two different sides. There's me, the editorialist, the person who understands editorial workflow and marketing and what you do to promote and identify a book in the marketplace. But there's also me as a designer and thinking about the elements on a cover. And I wouldn't necessarily immediately reject to the idea of a cover minus its byline. But I would, again, have to feel like, what's the purpose of leaving it off? Is it just some kind of personal preference, or are they trying to accomplish something by doing that? Are they trying to separate the idea from a brand? Are they trying to let the book be its own, have its own identity? I mean, that's— I don't know that those are necessarily valid concepts, but it interests me as a designer to at least say, okay, I would be willing to explore that. But again, going back to my cardinal rules, have you thought about why? Why do you want to do this? Can you defend it? Can it be part of a structure to the book? And if you can't, then it's not a hill you want to die on, because then it's just simply distracting from the things that you have that are core to the identity of your book. So that's, I think that'd be my wishy-washy answer. So I'm not willing to reject it out of hand, but I think it has a high bar of defense in my mind.

That makes sense. I mean, like everything else with covers, it needs to be intentional if you're going to make that choice, right?

Right, exactly. And I don't know, maybe part of it is just, is feeling a little bit, conciliatory. I mean, I try to meet authors where they are, you know, good ideas and bad ideas, and then hopefully I can coach them in a direction that helps them see, you know, this is why covers have been this way. I mean, I would try to understand the author's position and then make a counterpoint and see how much of an immovable object it is and come to some kind of an agreement or understanding. And that's the most important thing I do as a designer, understand.

So absolutely, that makes good sense. Um, real quick before we let you go, I just want to ask a super fast question. What's your favorite book cover of all time? Do you have a favorite?

Oh, you know, I, I'm, I'm gonna have to, I'm gonna have to punt on this one. I don't really, uh, there are two, there are too many, uh, there really are too many. I get asked that question a lot. A lot of clients ask me that question, and I, and I defer because, A, I don't want to I don't want to be influenced by favorites. Partially, it's me trying to be high and mighty, but also it's— I can't pick just one. It's like trying to ask a cinephile to pick their favorite movie. I like— there are a lot of classic series of novels, like Penguin Classics comes to mind, where there's an opportunity where the book is divorced from any specific promotional needs. It already exists, is known, and there's sometimes some really creative, interesting, and fun covers created around series, and I like those. If I had to identify a style of book cover that I really liked, there was a time in the 1960s and early '70s where book covers became incredibly typographic and bold. Think of like classic books like Catch-22 and the original book Psycho and a lot of Marshall McLuhan's books that had these very bold, very typographic, very of-the-moment cover designs that I think weren't beholden to a lot. They really reflected a period in graphic design. And those are— those have always been really attractive to me. And to me, they really are evocative of a time and a space, yet are incredibly timeless. And their appeal. So I guess that would be my answer. I'm not going to identify a specific book because again, it's difficult for me to do that. I can't pick one without picking 10 more.

Absolutely. Well, we will put something about this on the blog and we'll talk about some of our collective favorite covers and, you know, do a little show and tell on our website for everybody. So thank you, Andrew. How can people reach out to you if they want to talk to you more about book covers or hire you to do a book cover for them?

You know, it's funny, it's funny to say as I'm actually really bad at promoting myself. Most of my business comes word for mouth, so I don't have an identity beyond if they'd like to reach out to me via email, it's andrew@abandonedwest.com, and that's really the best way to reach me. And I'm sure maybe on the, on the the blog post, we can put some additional information. But honestly, I'm about having conversations with clients, and so that's— that would be the best way. Let's reach out and let's start a conversation.

Perfect. Well, we thank you so much for this conversation today. It has been an absolute blast to have you here, and we just cherish your friendship and your, your professionalism and all good things about you. So thanks again, and thanks to our producer Paul Roberts, thanks to our executive producer Emily Carpenter Polsky, Vanessa Campos. This has been Pub Date, and we will see you next time.

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