Ep. 6: Can Publishing a Book Help You Scale Your Business?

Welcome to the Pub Date Podcast, the show where two book broads discuss what should happen before, during, and after your book publication date. Brought to you by Broad Book Group with your hosts Vanessa Campos and Jen Dorsey.

Welcome back, Jen. So glad to see your wonderful face today. We missed you last time, but we know that you had a very relaxing time with the family. How was it?

Thank you.

It was lovely.

We went to Chattanooga, Tennessee, which is a fun little town with lots of cool mountainy stuff to do. So if you like mountains, but tiny mountains, it's the place for you. It was perfect.

It's probably the place for me. I'm so excited to have you on today and more excited— no offense, Jen— to have Laura Briggs on today. She is a phenomenal woman. She is in the business industry, we call them hustler. She's a speaker, writer, and an expert on the freelance economy. She's the author of How to Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business, The Six Figure Freelancer, and How to Become a Virtual Assistant. She's working on Apparently 2 new books that are coming out at the same time. Welcome, Laura.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Yes, we're so excited to have you. So for those of you who don't know, Laura came into our lives a few years ago when we were acquiring books about the freelance economy, but she came in and wow, I mean, your credentials and everything were just stellar.

Bestseller.

Laura has a, her, her story and her journey and how she got from, you know, being a teacher to having her own business and really scaling that up and then coming up with a book idea. I was just so fascinated with your, with your journey. So tell us a little bit about that specific journey. What got you into entrepreneurship and small business and how that led to writing several books?

Yeah, I never intended to be a business person. I was totally on the academic track. I got my master's degree immediately after college. Right after that, I went right into a PhD program in public policy, fully intended on becoming a tenure-track professor and teaching. And then I got a job as a teacher, and one year of that made me rethink my entire life plan to become a teacher. Education in America has just changed a lot, like even at the collegiate level, but teaching 7th grade was an eye-opener for me. I had no formal training to, to really be successful with that. And I was thrown into a really high needs district, high needs school. The school couldn't even afford a teacher in social studies for each of the middle schools. So they, they said, hey, can you teach 6th, 7th, and 8th grade, teach them whatever you think they need to know before high school? I was like, that's a lot in a year. And kind of at that same time that I was realizing this wasn't for me, My boyfriend at the time was active duty Navy and finishing medical school. And we knew that orders were coming for him to move as soon as he finished medical school. We had no idea if we would be going overseas, if we would be moving across country. And so it was kind of the perfect storm. And, um, I had a professor in college. It was such an offhand comment, but he had made a comment to me after class one day that he suggested that I change my major from economics and political science. Over to English. He loved my work, and I kind of laughed it off like, no, I'm almost done with college, I'm not starting over. Um, but it came to me as a moment of inspiration, like, maybe I could do some type of writing, like, I can't be that bad of a writer, and literally Googled how to become a freelance writer, absorbed everything I could, and it's just been such a crazy wild journey. It's opened a lot of doors that would not have opened if I had stayed in education.

Well, that's really exciting. I love that, you know, most businesses are started by absolute necessity and a passion. So tell me a little bit about, you know, that first initial step into how did you get clients? Because I know that, you know, most of the time we work with authors who already have clients, but let's talk a little bit about the beginning stage and give our listeners a bit about how to get yourself out there? Because I do feel that a lot of what you're probably going to tell us will be very relatable to, you know, the marketing around a book.

That's so true. Well, you have to start somewhere. And so I think one thing a lot of people do is they kind of try to jump steps. They're like, well, I'm looking for that amazing client. I want that 6-month contract. I want the $1,000, you know, job. And it's not like that, right? You may have to take something for less than what you were expecting. Get your foot in the door because also you don't even know if you're going to like doing this. So, so don't put too much pressure on yourself. Just go out there and try to find a job that you can do and somewhere where you can get your foot in the door. My favorite tip for people who are looking for any kind of side hustle where there's some sort of economy built up there, like in the freelance world, it would be job boards. The people are already pre-sold on needing that service. So let's say you wanted to be a dog walker, download an app that connects dog walkers with people who own dogs. Like, don't be like, I'm going to go build a website and get business cards and hang up flyers. That's really hard. Start with something simple, learn some of the basics of the business stuff, and then you can scale up. But it is true, it's absolutely the hardest to get your very first client. It's really difficult to do.

I think that's totally true, especially in, in the writing space. And I know that you work a lot with existing using platforms like that, like what you're talking about, like Upwork, to get your name out there. What do you see the role of those being for people who want to, to take on writing gigs and kind of scale up to, to get to that book level? Do you see them still being relevant and around? Is that where people are going right now to get that kind of work?

I think they're still relevant largely for beginners. I think where it's changed is when you're more experienced, you have a network, you have, you know, people that can refer you, you have a solid LinkedIn profile and a website. And so you don't have to do as much work to market yourself when you're more experienced, but getting your foot in the door, the value of places like that is that they're connecting you with someone who already needs that service. So it's one less step in your marketing. You don't have to tell the person, 'You need a blog writer. You should hire a ghostwriter.' They're already saying, 'I need to hire somebody. Who's the best person with the best rates and timeline that can do this?' And I think for people who are newer, that's really instrumental in not trying to start from zero, right? 'Cause if I pitch someone on LinkedIn, there's 100 different reasons they may not be interested in what I'm offering. If it's a job on Upwork, I at least know they see the value of hiring a freelancer 'cause they've already posted a job ad and they know a little something about what they're trying to outsource. I don't have to necessarily sell them on the benefits of doing the thing, period. So I do think they still have a place. They've gotten a lot more competitive since I started, for sure.

Right. But good warm leads, at least to get you started. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, I agree. I, you know, I'm thinking about the world of writing and personally, I, I too went, actually I did the opposite of you, Laura. I started as an English major and then moved into journalism and marketing. And some of my first gigs, because I'm in Orange County, California, some of my first writing and proofreading gigs were between, um, a teacher teaching publishing, uh, business, and then the healthcare industry. Like, I'm, I'm talking heart catheters and, and that, you know, that type of medical device industry. So I mean, I'm thinking about writing in such a wide array of areas of expertise When you're working with someone and coaching them, how do you come to the point where you figure out, okay, this is the right niche for you, or do you, you know, give them the chance to explore everything? What do you recommend?

I think explore everything to start with, but try to narrow it down to 3 to 4 things you think you have experience and/or interest in. Bonus points if you have experience and interest at the same time. Because like I said, that first job is the hardest to get. So anything that's going to get your foot in the door. I pitched all kinds of projects, but because I'd spent a lot of time working in the legal industry, I thought this is where I'm going to be one of the strongest candidates in the pack. Even if I'm a total beginner, I'm going to be a little bit ahead of most other people. And then use your experience to decide what you do and don't want to do. You're— a lot of people say that your niche will find you. And I think that is true. Uh, because you might try something and think, oh, I would love writing in the wedding industry. And then you discover something about those clients that you're like, ah, they're actually always under pressure and stressed out because they're planning events or weddings. And I don't like that. I don't like writing in that environment or whatever. So some of it is you have to feel it out and see what works for you.

I think that makes a lot of sense. And you mentioned earlier your, your origin story, which is in academia, as is mine. You and I are both recovering academics, right? And that's a very different kind of writing. A lot of the time it's, it's, let's be honest, it's a little stodgy. It's a lot of 25-cent words. What was that transition like for you? Because as you mentioned, now you write all kinds of things for all kinds of clients, but even if you kind of narrow into your niche, if you're one of those academics like us and you're making that move, what was that like for you? Do you have any advice for other academics who are looking to do different kinds of writing?

Yeah, and I suspect you both would say the same advice to people who are looking to write their first book. Good readers of the content make for great writers of the content, because you can go and take a class on, well, here's how to do essay writing or nonfiction writing or whatever. One of the best things you can do is just be a reader of that genre and start to absorb it. And so for me, I saw potential in writing blogs, but I didn't know how to blog. So I followed blogs. I followed people who talked about the art and craft of blogging. I think you have to also see, is there anything in your academic background that would actually translate over positively, right? So I work with lawyers, another industry where there's a lot of 25-cent words, jargon. It's more complex than your average thing. So I thought, I wonder if I can make this work in my favor, right? Because I don't want to— I'm not going to be as casual of a writer by nature as someone else might be. So I think it's learn the craft of what it is you think you want to write. And then if there's anything you can pull over— an academic, for example, might be an amazing researcher. So if they have to go dig through a bunch of government documents or something really thick and heavy, that's actually the kind of writer that you want because their research process will be more thorough. It might even be faster. So it's not always a negative thing. But you do also— you do not want to write like an academic because one of the things about academic writing is nobody reads that. And nobody wants to read that. So Don't write like an academic.

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, I would say you feel excited if 2 or 3 people read your journal article and you feel, you know, pretty special if you get cited. But yeah, I get it. Yes.

That's, that sounds tough. I'm, I'm coming from a consumer perspective and I find the challenges there is like, okay, are my words buzzworthy? Are they going to catch people's attention? So Laura, I'm curious. At what point in your freelance career did you decide it's time for me to write a book? Like, what was that moment?

I had always wanted to write a book. I've always been an avid reader of a lot of different types of genres and really thought this might be something I could potentially do. Of course, had that fear that I think everyone has where you're like, well, who am I to write a book? Do I have enough expertise? Do I have decent enough writing skill? And I think freelance writing really built up my confidence, at least to that point where I felt like, you know, I learned this from scratch. So even if I'm terrible at writing books, like, I can, I can work on it, I can get better at this thing. And I just, I had a really wonderful friend who's actually a YA author, and was publishing like her 6th book or something. And I was congratulating her. And she's like, hey, you're like an hour away from a really amazing writing workshop where you just moved in Indiana. And she goes, You need to go. They have agents on site. I bought the last ticket, bought the last slot to pitch an agent, and I had no book. So she goes, just do it. She goes, she goes, this may be the worst experience of your author career, but get it over with now. Everything's uphill from here. And she was right. It was brutal to pitch a New York City agent on a book that didn't exist. But I went ahead and did it. And I got over that fear of it because even at the end of this pitch, the agent still said, "Well, send me your first 10 pages." And everyone at the conference had told me like, "They won't say that, like, unless there's some shred of interest." And I was like, "Okay, maybe I could do this. Maybe," right? And so that's when— and I think also pitching fiction at that conference, I realized there too, it's going to be easier for me to go with nonfiction first. This is my strength area. This is what I know. The topics I write about are of huge interest right now in the world. Everybody wants a side hustle. And so was again kind of like that perfect storm coming together. So yeah, I worked with, um, someone to write my book proposal and kind of got up the courage to pitch agents from there.

Yeah, I congratulate you. Pitching— and we've met with a few New York, uh, based literary agents and subsidiary agents, and they're wild. They're, they're tough. And, you know, I think you have to be because that's— imagine how many books are coming at you, how many book proposals, and people with platforms. But when you, when you put your book proposal together, you had a business, you had experience, you— I believe you even had your coaching platform, right?

Yeah.

So tell me how that book just kind of made its way into your, your bus— your current business's ecosystem and, and how that kind of played into all of it.

So since my business is kind of split between doing actual freelance writing for my clients and coaching freelancers, a lot of my offers that I sell to freelancers, they're not what I would call super high-end, but they're $400, $500 courses. You know, it's one-hour coaching is more expensive than a beginner could access. And my real sweet spot is coaching people who are looking to scale to six figures. And beginners also don't have a budget. So it was hard for me for a long time. I had lots of free material and I had lots of more expensive paid material, but there wasn't really a middle ground thing where I could send that person who was like me. Like when I got started, I mean, I spent 3 weeks thinking about it, but I finally bought a $20 ebook from a freelance writer and, and poured through every word. And that's the person I was thinking of. And how can I fit this book into my ecosystem for $20 or less for the person who really is willing to do the work, but cannot afford $300, $400, or honestly is going to pick up this book, read it, and go, oh, I didn't think that's what being a freelance writer was like. I'm out. Right? I wanted it to be equally helpful for somebody at an affordable price point. And so I kind of view my books as like, it's like a credibility piece. They're also kind of loss leaders because yes, they sell and people buy them and review them, but it's usually much later that that person becomes a buyer in my ecosystem. So like Six Figure Freelancer came out in October. Now in the summer after that, I'm getting people saying, I read Six Figure Freelancer, I listened to every one of your podcast episodes, I need to hire you as my coach, right? And so I kind of went in knowing that, like, that it might not be all about the instant. And I worked really hard to make sure that I had a good enough presence where if the book was good for them and they liked my style, then there were opportunities to work with me in the future. So that's, that's how I kind of view my books. I, and I'm sure you all have experienced this too. A lot of authors are looking for that first book deal, and it's going to sell like gangbusters, and it's going to be super easy, and they're, they're going to be able to quit their job and retire because the book makes so much money. And I'm always like, wait, stop, like, let's have a reality check, because that is not what's going to happen, and you need to know that going in, you know.

Expectations are really important, and realistic expectations especially, especially Well, I think you make a good point. It's a book is oftentimes a long tail process, right? Like it pays dividends way down the line. And that's at least whenever I think about someone who's doing a book to increase their business or build their platform, that's kind of the goal there, right?

Yeah. And I think it's, I view everything in business as what can I be doing now to unlock the next level? I kind of think of it like a video game where I have to master this level and then that gate or portal is going to open to to the next one. And so it's like, if I'm writing a book now, how is this going to get me onto a TV show or onto a podcast I've really been eyeing for a while? Or is it gonna get a future book deal or a collaboration with somebody I really respect and admire? And so that's how I see it as part of the bigger picture. And I would encourage other authors to do the same because you can get a lot of mileage out of a book. You really can, especially if you have more than one, but it is a long game. It's a long game and you have to have it set up so that that's not the only place people can find you. Because people can read so much today, and if they don't remember your name, or if you don't have somewhere else for them to go, something else for them to download, you know, it's, it's really hard for them to continue connecting with you. They may even forget your name, you know.

Great.

I agree. And, and I really appreciate your perspective on this because, you know, one of the big questions that everyone should ask themselves before they decide to go forward with a book is, what are my goals here?

Yes.

What, what do I hope to accomplish? And everyone thinks, okay, number one bestseller, which you could probably achieve if you have enough, you know, of a fan base or a platform and you're sending traffic to that Amazon page. Don't even get me started about New York number one bestsellers and all of that. It's a money game there and a money game. But, you know, I love the, I love the perspective that you bring to this. Um, and, you know, I really want to, going back to the whole idea of like a book should have a purpose, a book should educate an audience, and which we were talking about niches earlier. So I really want to give you this opportunity, Laura, to tell us a little bit about your latest book project, which is with a niche publisher, which I think is so fabulous. You know, sometimes when you're working with a, on a book and you know that there's an audience for it, the big fives or the big fours may not be the right place to go. So I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about that project.

Yeah, absolutely. So I'm working, well, the manuscript is complete and it's in production mode for a book called Remote Work for Military Spouses, obviously related to freelance work, but this one is more of a career guide about how to get a traditional job working remotely or how to convince your employer to let you work remotely because military spouses move all the time. Um, that was my experience. I've moved 9 times in the last 12 years and I keep telling my husband, you better love this new job because I'm not moving again now that he's a civilian. Um, but I really experienced that firsthand. And I also run a nonprofit called Operation Freelance where we teach military spouses how to break into remote work as freelancers. And so I had been wanting to write this for a while. And like you said, where does this fit? The audience is so specific, right? And was connected with someone locally when I lived in Minnesota who ran a publishing house for military books only, lots of connections in that industry, open calls for submissions, and I did a book proposal. And she called me a couple weeks after I submitted the proposal, and she said, I'm so glad you submitted this, because if you didn't submit it, we were going to hire a ghostwriter to write this exact title. She's like, we need this book right now. And this was pre-pandemic. So we were already in the works of doing like a, you know, a remote work, book before remote work became the thing for everybody. And so look for the right place for your book, right? Where are you going to get the most traction? I think a lot of times, like you said, people look at the Big Five, or they go, I need to have this person as an agent because they published so-and-so's book. Find the right person for you. That goes for agent, that goes for publishing house, and talk to them on the phone and be prepared to say no if you, if you feel in your gut that it's not a fit, right? I talked to a couple of agents, and I just felt like, ah, I'm going to be the lowest I'm not the top person on the totem pole here. Whereas my agent was like, I'm going to go in, I'm going to fight for you. Like, let me, let me do all the dirty work. I'll handle it. You know, and I just, I felt that camaraderie of like, oh, this is another hustler. As you said, I was like, I can get behind that. I want her selling me. Right. So yeah, think about each book as an individual product, but you can also think about how does it relate to my other books that I have as well? How can they potentially work together? To do more for me and reach readers that are related.

Absolutely. I love that. I'm so excited for you. I think it's a very cool niche to have, and it's got such great purpose, and it just, it, it fits you to a tee. So that's awesome. That's great. Well, we have one very, very short question before you leave, which we'd love to ask people. What is on your, your reading list right now? What are you reading for fun? Are you reading anything for fun?

Oh boy, for fun, that's— well, yeah, I do. So Jennifer Weiner has a new book out that's been on my nightstand for a little while. So that one I want to read for fun. I read a lot of business and nonfiction, which other people would be like, oh, that sounds like work. Sometimes I really do think that that is fun. But yeah, I want to crack open that. You ever want to like savor a book? Like I'm afraid to start it because I know I'm going to blow through it and then the moment is over. So I— it's like this weird thing. I'm like, oh, the right day will come when I'm ready to just power read it.

Exactly. Well, I hope you get time to read it and such a busy lady.

Can you tell people how they can reach you if they're interested in working with you?

What's the best way?

Yeah, sure. So connecting with me on LinkedIn is great. I'm very active there. Just Laura Briggs, or you can check out my website, which is betterbizacademy.com.

Awesome. Everybody go, go check her out. Laura, thank you so much for being here today. We just, we love you. You know that we're fans. Um, you're awesome. And Cannot wait to just see what is next with you. So thanks again for taking the time.

Yeah, thank you.

You bet. Well, we want to thank our producer, Paul Roberts, and we'd like to thank our executive producer, Emily Carpenter-Pulskamp of Little Red Communications. We're going to have a great week. We hope you do too. See you next time.

We hope that you gained some valuable insights into the world of book publishing. Head over to broadbookgroup.com to learn more about us and all our services. And be sure to check out all our social media @BroadBookGroup. Until then, keep publishing.