The Joy of Putting the Work In Struggle Bus Ep 6 with Scott Lux

Welcome to the Struggle Bus at VSpot Show, the home of the e-com and early news. I'm your host Vinny O Brien, or as my friends love to call me, hey you in the bushes. As an agent journeyman in e-commerce, I wanted to create the Struggle Bus to create a space for us long-suffering career veterans who've seen it all, and we still go quietly back to our office just because we know the work has got to get done. With me for this episode is a friend, someone I got to know over the last year, Someone I'm very excited to speak to, it's Scott Lux, who's Executive VP and Global E-Commerce and Technology Head in Esprit. Scott, welcome to the show.

Thanks. Glad to be here.

There was a few things you've said to me in lots of different conversations that have kind of piqued my interest, but I'm really trying to figure out what makes people be the way they are. And apart from being a great guy, very experienced in the world we operate in, You have a love of technology that I think shapes the sort of career person you are. Take me back through that first piece of kit that you ever got, be it as a kid or an adult, that got you excited by the world of technology and retail.

Oh wow, I would say, I mean, for me it goes back to the very first, um, CD player that I got. I think I was turning 13 or 14 and saved up my money. I'd worked in my, my dad's shop, so this kind of ties into retail. He had a lighting store back in Dallas, Texas, where I grew up, and this is before Home Depot, Kohl's, like any of the big, uh, retailers that sell light fixtures and ceiling fans. And I used to love to go hang out at his store on Saturday. He'd pay me a little bit and put together light fixtures, interact with customers, walk the floor. I just thought it was so cool to see people coming in browsing and I'd help carry out their packages. And luckily where our store was located, there was a record store called Sound Warehouse in Dallas. And I would go talk to all the guys because back then that was the only way you could discover music that wasn't on FM radio. And I had this weird passion for like punk. Heavy metal, so everything that wasn't on FM radio. And that got me hooked on music and technology because I saw CDs and the very first CD I bought was Led Zeppelin IV.

Oh, amazing.

And since then, I always had this curiosity about technology and the interaction with kind of the human emotional element. And from there, it kind of stuck with me.

Weird music choices being from Dallas, Texas, I would have thought, no?

Yeah, you would have thought like country. Well, even worse, I was born in Alabama. But no, I just grew up with just a wide variety. I always talk about I had this aunt that— so my mom's side of the family is from Waco and she had a 280ZX. So it was a sports car with a T-top. And she loved Rod Stewart, Rolling Stones, Fleetwood Mac, and took me to the rodeo and listened to music. And I just thought that was the coolest thing because it was music you didn't hear played anywhere.

Yeah.

And somehow that kind of stuck with me. And I loved heavy metal, hip-hop back in the day, all the way through like New Order, Depeche Mode in the '80s. So kind of your classic Gen X, I guess.

Amazing.

Musical tastes. And then tortured my sister when a radio station in Dallas called Z-Rock came out and it was pure heavy metal. And my mom's like, you got to drive your sister to school. And poor, poor Jen had to listen to punk and hardcore heavy metal every morning to get her going.

Tell me, how did your dad run the store? Was he like authoritarian about it? Was he always looking at the next new thing? And at least what did you observe?

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it really came down to relationships because we had this unique mix because, you know, you had consumers that would come in if you had a home or apartment, you needed lighting. So kind of your proverbial direct-to-consumer back in the day. But he also did about 50% of his business through builders. So B2B. So home builders in the area. And I just observed how he would interact with not only the people he hired, how he took care of them, customers that came in, but also building relationships and networking, which is probably where I picked that up early on, just with the builders. Because again, this was back before any social media, before internet or technology. You really had to rely on word of mouth and just getting out and going, calling on builders, going on site and visiting. And that just kind of stuck with me, building that, that one-to-one relationship.

And you told me in one of our preambles that you remember when your dad took out this half-page ad in the newspaper, right? How, how did that stick with you so well?

Yeah, I just think, you know, growing up, you, you just have so many perceptions on what you want to be when you grow up and just kind of, you know, you— we grew up in, in Dallas, and so coming from a family of retailers, my grandfather in Waco had a jewelry business, and my other grandfather in Birmingham, Alabama, which is where my dad got the idea, had a lighting store and cousins. And I just always thought it was cool enough to have a store to go into, just this physical place. But when he told me he took out, you know, a half-page ad in the Dallas Morning News sports section, I thought that was the coolest thing to flip through there. And it was called Lighting World, and see our ad in there next to headline about the Dallas Mavericks or something along those lines. Because again, this was pre— yeah, you had local TV, but that was really kind of the only way to advertise. And to be in the sports page, which was always the most viewed section of the paper, was pretty cool. So stuck with it.

It's amazing because I grew up in a small village of about 1,300 people, and I started working in a butcher's from when I was 13. So they didn't really care for child labor laws. But they understood that young kids sometimes just want to do something, want to feel like they're contributing. So I've kind of felt that that's always been part of my upbringing and the way that I've evolved my thinking on it. But you have said walking the shop floor, you've talked about customer interaction, looking after people, building relationships. It feels like you had a really good grounding in whatever career path you were going to go into just from these kind of formative experiences.

Yeah, I think so. And the last one I'll touch on is, you know, it wasn't always like, I don't know what the saying is, like peaches and roses or whatever, working for my dad. So I finally, at about 16 when I could drive, branched out and waited tables at a restaurant in Dallas called Dalt's. It was an offshoot, kind of this grill model offshoot of owned by TGI Fridays back in the day. And I think that's the other thing that just kind of shaped my career path is just being in the service side of it, kind of front lines. And I view them with retail. You and I have talked about physical retail, and because you can't hide behind anything, if a customer is upset or angry and you're in hospitality or restaurant, you have to make it right. You really don't have a choice. And I think that just kind of stuck with me on how you interact, uh, with customers and that service side of it, the high pace, high pressure component and dealing with a ton of adversity. I mean, I had people walk out without paying, you know, you name it. Um, so I think that that's what kind of stuck with me, uh, going forward and kind of bringing that lens to how I view digital and e-commerce and, and retail today.

But you still talk about it with a huge amount of passion. So you're, you're a career veteran, you're in a similar time to me, 20 years plus. What, what are the things that you can draw on then to, to kind of help you still get in and do the work every day? Like, what's your motivator today that still burns brightly? Because you can even see it in your eyes when you talk about work.

Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's the love for kind of a brand and product first and foremost. I mean, that, that's really it. Um, you know, so it's the technology I view today as kind of an enabler of that brand and how you create, you know, different exposure touch points with the consumer. But for me, it's just love of brand and product. Again, going back to what we were just chatting about, being able to tinker and touch, you know, light fixtures or put them together or browse through, you know, CDs or vinyl. And now we were talking just before we kicked off, I went for a run. There's so many up-and-coming cool running brands, footwear brands that are out there. And it's not just that they're selling online, they're hosting events. You see people wearing that gear. And that's what gets me excited about, you know, the day-to-day side of it. It's just, you know, how do you raise that visibility, get people engaged with products that they love, and do that hopefully through digital, but a lot of times could end up in a physical retail or kind of a meetup.

The world we operate in is complicated. Do you think we have overcomplicated it or Is it a genuine statement of fact? We work in a complicated world.

I mean, yeah, I think it's complicated, but I do think we overcomplicate it. And you and I have touched on, you know, right now my big rant is around AI and it's not that I'm a Luddite or against it, but I just think we have become conditioned and I would say probably started with the iPhone and social media to just losing our ability to think. And you talk a lot about— you call it friction. And I think that's what's complicated it is everybody wants a shortcut or an easy path. I think I saw a quote somewhere like the average American now reads on like a 6th grade reading level. And that's just— it's horrifying. But that adds that complexity. And then you couple it with the world we live in. Where it's like on one hand you are just dumped AI, AI, AI. And it's like, hey, if you don't get on board with the GenTech AI and that's how everybody's shopping, then you're viewed as old school or someone that's just, you know, not going to have a job type of thing. And I completely disagree. But that's where that complication comes in because you can't really have that conversation today without being viewed. It's like, hey, then the world's just going to pass you by. And I think there's got to be that contrarian point of view out there. And that, that's where the complexity comes in, is how do you have that conversation? And then furthermore, how do brands determine what to lean into and not to lean into?

How do you have that conversation upstream to kind of bosses and, and leadership? And, and how do you navigate that downstream then from your perspective?

Yeah, that's a tough one. Because, you know, leadership at, you know, most of my career lately, I've reported to C-level executives and they're getting pressure. Everyone has a boss, right? Even, even C-level, whether it's a board or investors, and they're hearing noise or chatter. One of the best things to do is just create transparency and have conversations. So back to AI, one of the things we built out at Esprit before we had some of our challenges was just around data and analytics, just holding a data conference and doing this on a semiannual basis where that allowed one, people to participate. You have transparency on what we're doing, how we're talking about the potential of AI, where it's going. So it kind of minimizes the opportunity for people to kind of come in and say, oh, we're not doing anything. What are we doing for it? It's like, oh, wait a second, we actually are talking about it. So I think that's the best way. And that, that goes upstream to your point to executive leadership, and then it goes downstream to team members and partners because they're allowed to participate as well. And just having that forum and that transparency on here's how we're talking about data or AI or our tech stack or just brands allows you to have that open conversation both up and down.

The communication piece is really interesting. We've had a guest on the Watson Weekend, one of the other shows that you've been on with us, and we're talking about communication being like a strategy during chaos. And chaos is probably representative of the world that we just can't control right now. It's not a— I don't think it's an overexaggeration, but it can feel chaotic. How would your dad's business survive in a modern environment? Or could have?

Yeah, um, I think it could. I mean, it's tough to take something, you know, that existed 40-ish years ago and apply it immediately, but I think it would evolve over time. I mean, one of his biggest challenges that he faced was when Home Depot came onto the scene and started selling light fixtures. I mean, that's equivalent to Amazon selling anything to these smaller You know, he was a mom-and-pop shop. But I think you have to evolve. And a lot of that comes down to, you know, brand, really being clear on what you stand for, why you deserve to exist, and back to that relationship side of it. That's where there's all this conversation in New York about physical bookstores having a resurgence. So I think that's how you can compete in a crowded environment is you just have to be clear what makes our brand of light fixtures, Lighting World, so different than what you would get at a Home Depot or a big box retailer and have to stand behind that and back it up.

You've talked a little bit there about technology being the enabler and so on. And you and I have spoken before about your role in the architecture of all of this. We kind of think through the lens of speed being this great thing. What do you think about the idea that we should be slowing down and taking more time to make the decisions that we have? Does that fit better with the way that you work, or do you think time is our friend?

Yeah, no, I think you have to slow it down. I don't— I would be hard-pressed to see an example where speed and kind of that first mover advantage, if you will, really paid off. For a retail brand because you're burdening all the risk. And again, it goes back to what I was saying with AI. And I think, you know, we were talking about running for a bit. It's, you have to go through the process and the training. And that's what I've loved about becoming a runner is I've realized you can't, for the most part, there are always exceptions, but you can't just wake up and go from couch to marathon in a condensed period of time. You'll run into injury, you'll have so many issues, and I think you miss kind of the beauty of the training. And what I mean by the beauty of the training is having to get up day in and day out, kind of grind it out. But there's going to be days where the workout just sucks, but you learn from it. Or you run in horrific weather and it's like, okay, that's going to pay off later. If you rush everything and back to your question, like if it's always speed, speed, speed, you miss kind of that mechanical muscle memory buildup and expertise that'll help you in the long run. It may not help you immediately, but it will pay off in the long run. And I think that's, that's what I've seen with retail brands that have kind of just stayed, um, tried and true. Doesn't mean you don't innovate, doesn't mean you don't push ahead.. But, you know, there's a lot of talk about, um, I think it was American Eagle with their turnaround. Uh, you know, they— it took 7 years to kind of break that old mold that they had, and, you know, ended up paying off for them. So I think there's, you know, that whole thing that I do think you, you have to play the slow game a bit.

Yeah, I, I'm fascinated it at this point in my career because I feel like we've sped things up way too much. We operate in dog-like cycles, thinking way too quick. And then at a retail level, we operate against accounting cycles, which don't make it easy for us to do our job because everything then is measurable against a monthly metric, which is not really the way it should operate. I'm just wondering then, from a hiring point of view and skills and culture point of view, How's the environment that we operate in today? Is it getting easier? Is it getting more challenging? If you're your 20-year-old self and you're wanting to get back in now, what are the things that you need to consider before you decide to get back into this role?

Oh man. I mean, I think it's challenging. I think, you know, this whole notion of what a work culture is has been turned on its head. It's hard to kind of define. I think it'd be nice for people to go back to just being human again. You see stories on LinkedIn for recruiters that ghost people after interviews. There's just a lot, I think, that makes it challenging as you look to enter the market, not to mention all the tech noise, not to mention, you know, you know, what type of role should I look to gain a skill that will allow me to get into mid-management or to progress. And so I think that's the biggest challenge is, you know, as a leader today, how do I make sure those opportunities are available to today's up-and-coming graduates? They'll have a different perspective and lens on how to do things, but making sure that there's actually a role for them to contribute and progress and move up in. I think that's going to be the bigger challenge. You know, again, going back to you, you almost can't have this conversation without bringing AI in the mix because everyone wants to replace, you know, these roles that are quote unquote entry level or kind of grunt mechanical with AI. But then what do you do with a college grad? Like I saw somewhere, and if you'll indulge me for a moment about, you know, marketing that, oh, you know, marketing is now going to be great again. And she used that exact phrase. You know, she knew it was a hot take.

Down for me.

Yeah. And because of AI, and it's like, well, what if you're an entry-level copywriter that's a creative and wants to progress? Like, what is that pathway for you? If you're a designer that's entry-level, what is your, your pathway to progress? Because I, I do think there's a world for that. And how do we create those opportunities? Because if you're cutting out 5 years of entry-level experience, college grads can't just go into a role and into leadership right away. So that's the challenge, back to your question, that we have to solve for. If I was 20, you know, 1, 22 going into the workforce, I would try to figure out, okay, how do I pivot into that?

Yeah, you raise a couple of interesting points. The, the first, I suppose, that I struggle with is we have this passive relationship with technology now where it reminds me of The Simpsons, can't someone else do it? Where Homer was trying to run for, I think, sanitation commissioner. I love a good Simpsons quote, but it's the idea that we can replace thinking with kind of doing it and the immediacy of information that's available to us, whether it's right or wrong. This good enough mantra that's kind of developed is something that is at some point going to come back and bite us in the ass. The other thing I think is really interesting is the idea of career progression. I wonder, will we reach a point in the not-so-distant future, Scott, where we will be looking for people as part of their interview to tell us what that career progression could look like for them within our organization? Do you think that would be helpful?

I don't know. Maybe. I ask because— I think it's really tough. It's the same reason I have jaded perspective on all these vendors that reach out.

Yeah.

Is, and I'm not saying entry-level or recent grads would be lazy, but a lot of vendors are lazy. They don't do their homework. Like they'll reach out and say, oh, you're doing such an amazing job, this, this, and this. And I love what you're doing. It's like, yeah, but our site's been down for a month. So did you even look at our site? So the reason I bring that up is because I think it's really hard for someone to have a progress or roadmap of, hey, here's what my career progression would look like at XYZ company, if they don't even have enough research or the insight into what the company is doing to be able to think through that. And so maybe, maybe, you know, to your point, I'm not— we could be optimistic that they'll do more research on the company and have a thoughtful point of view. On where they would contribute and how they would grow. Um, but man, I just haven't seen it with even just partners that are trying to earn business do it. I just, I'm not too optimistic on that front.

We can maybe come back to that because there's a whole idea around entitlement, entitlement culture as well, which I think is really interesting. We almost feel because we've accessed everyone, we're entitled to everything as well. And it's certainly something I even see creeping in on my 7-year-old son. If he interacts with social media, which he never does, he's not got a phone, but he might see a YouTube video or whatever, and it does something to his brain. It scrambles how he thinks about the world. And all of a sudden he feels that he should be this creator or influencer who then has all this entitlement, because really, that's what a lot of messaging kind of overly comfortable with it. We're getting close to the kind of time, and I want to make sure I kind of respect that. There's always a couple of questions I ask at the end of this, but there's one thing in particular before I ask my key question, which is we talked about mini disc players, Walkman, when CDs came out. What was the best, the single best invention that influenced you? Like that you think now, I wish, I'm so glad I had that in my life, but it may not be there today.

Yeah, I, I would say, you know, when we're talking about that, going back to the Sony Walkman, I mean, for me, again, just, we, we kicked off the conversation talking about music, and I just think, you know, there's such a parallel between brand and music because music, you remember when you hear a song, it brings back that emotion or that connection at that point of life. Like, I can vividly remember you know, whether it's hearing, you know, music or soundtrack from Breakfast Club, it's like I remember vividly going to see the movie no matter how many times I hear, you know, the song. Um, so the Walkman for me, just being able to take music with you and kind of tune out the world and kind of go to this other place, um, for me that, that was kind of key. And, you know, I mean, it's, it's still embedded in your iPhone. I mean, iTunes and Music, that's predominantly a big portion of the, the phone. So for me, the Walkman and just portable music really is the invention that stuck with me because I— it's my escape. Like, you saw my mug with KEXP and just one of the best streaming music radio stations out there.

So yeah, you remind me of a buddy of mine. We, we went to a dress-up party one Halloween and he went dressed as an '80s power walker and his commitment to his role. Every time you talk to him, he used to pull the headphone away from his ear so that, you know, when you couldn't hear people, you had that kind of ego thing of doing it. He did that all night long, no matter how many beers he had. Amazing.

You still have that today. Like, how many times have you walked by someone and you say hello and they just keep going and it's like, oh, they had their AirPods in. It's like, oh, okay.

It's amazing. So my key question to you, what's— if your career was a song, right now, what would it be?

Ooh, if my career—

huh, you've mentioned some of the greats there.

Oh gosh, that's a really tough one. Yeah, well, I don't know, I would go back with Yellow Leadbetter from Pearl Jam.

Oh wow.

One, because Just, it kind of feels like the moment we're in where you can't understand a damn word of what Eddie Vedder is saying in that song, but just the vibe and the essence of it. And it's just, you know, they usually close out a lot of their shows with it, but they keep going. And I think that's it. It's like, we may not understand, but you're just in that moment and you kind of keep going. So for me, I do, uh do that one.

It's amazing how the world works. I heard Eddie Vedder's name at lunchtime. I was listening to an episode of Smartless and Will Arnett was chatting to Eddie Vedder. It's not often you hear his name twice in a day, let alone in 2 or 3 hours. My final question, Scott, before I let you go enjoy the rest of your morning. This is the Struggle Bus and it's not all about depressing stories. It's about understanding the kind of mindset that people are in and what keeps us all going. Why do you feel you should be on the struggle bus, or why have you decided to join me on the struggle bus?

Oh yeah, that's a good question. Because I, and you know, again, going back to running, my wife would say, don't bring it up again, but it's not always easy. You have to put the work in, but the payoff is there. And whether that's, you know, exploring a new city, and it could be walking, just going out there, like, you have to put the work in, but then you're rewarded with— you may discover this beautiful architecture of the scene. And I think that's, that's kind of it. I mean, e-commerce is the same way, but there'll be a reward. There's always something new. Uh, back to the power of the brands, I think there's some really cool up-and-coming brands, uh, fashion and just overall apparel that are out there. Um, so you just have to, to keep plugging through. Not every day is going to be a winner, despite what our bosses or the metrics or KPIs want it to be. But you work through it. And I think the reward is, is, you know, much greater when you do struggle and put the work in and get through it.

It's amazing. You're gonna make my wife so happy. She loves the idea of delayed gratification. It is one of the things she teaches our boys the whole time.

Nice. Yeah, but it goes back to— I know we're pressed for time, but That's the piece that's missing, is we've kind of lost out on that because everyone— back to entitlement— I think the entitlement is just instant gratification. There's got to be this shortcut path to get there, and you just miss out on the joy of putting the work in.

So, the joy of putting the work in— what a great way to end our show. Scott, thank you so much for being such a great guest, for being patient with me. I think the wait was certainly worth it for me. So very grateful to you to take time out and speak with us today.

Yeah, thanks.

Would you come back on and let us know how you're doing in the new year?

Of course.

Amazing. Where can people find you? Over on LinkedIn or where can they connect with you?

Yeah, LinkedIn's usually the best.

Amazing. Look, I'm going to see you around. I'll be in the city next month, as we said, so we'll catch up for a coffee, maybe on a run. And, um, I'll put in the groundwork so I'm not couch more than marathon when we get to do it.

Fantastic.

Thanks for your time, my friend.

Thanks.