Cultivating a Culture of Continuous Learning and Adaptation

I am very excited, uh, and I'm going to introduce you to Suzanne Muller. She's a Fractional Chief Leadership Coaching Officer. Suzanne is part of EconoQ. We are a small community. We've been around only a couple of years. We're still figuring out how to build this community-led organization, which is really about empowering women. This is our mission, and most importantly, empowering our, our own members in whatever endeavor they have, whether it's starting their own businesses, starting their fractional practice, so it's, or being a coach, writing books, you name it. And so we gather several times a month and we help each other in, you know, as in our journey of thriving as women and as executives. So today, this is the fourth I think the fourth workshop in this overall series. And today Suzanne is going to talk to us about growth, which is an essential element in our own human experience. So for those who don't know Suzanne, she is a Swiss-born global influencer and Fractional Chief Leadership Coaching Officer. She has written over 680 blog posts and 400 podcast episodes. Her athletic feats include completing 26 marathon races, climbing the Mount Kilimanjaro, and finishing an Ironman triathlon race and skydiving. She speaks 5 languages and she shines in global consulting. She's doing executive coaching and leadership development. She's also an author and an advocate for diversity and empowerment. And she's really someone that we look upon when it comes to personal growth. You can find here all her bio, because she's really quite multifaceted, her experience, and of course you'll be able to find some of her work. She is the author of 3 books, including the latest one, Fifty Shades of Lipstick Leadership, and her link to the podcast, as well as her TEDx and a couple of blog posts that she has written that are always so interesting and challenging. So without further ado, I'm going to stop share and hide— oops, not view. There you go. Yes. And let you lead us.

Yes, wonderful. So thank you. Oops, that is— thank you so much and welcome to all the bots that we have here. I think we have to just be flexible. And I think that's also the adaptation piece that we want to talk about today. I remember during the pandemic, somebody invited me to give a talk and there was no audience. So basically I was just talking to myself. I think this is the future and we have to learn. We just have to learn and be flexible. I think that's what we all have to do. And maybe I give you an example. So I was in India providing some leadership training and I always say, like, coming from an Ivy League school, having my Ivy League thinking, going to India, and I had a translator there, and my focus was on soft skills. So I said to him, let's focus on the soft skills. And he looked at me like this, and then I realized he did not know what soft skills were in his language. So I was like, what do I do now? So I had to kind of like change my framework presentation that I wanted to provide those young female students. I had to just give a storytelling event and it was a great experience for me. So you, you think you, you are prepared for something where we were expecting, I send out 100 messages to people. I think Virginie sent 70 out and we have so many bots, but that is the reality. And a lot of people don't have the time, don't take the time, but I'm excited So we had women and power, money and growth, and this is the last of this year. So, and thank you, Claudia, for making the time because I know that when you're a fractional, you're always like, I don't have time, I don't have time. But I also want to say I used to work for Nestlé and obviously there you're always busy in human resources guiding a global team. And Nestlé had a membership with the IMD. That's a managing MBA school in Switzerland, really top, like compared to Harvard in a way. And they had every Tuesday half an hour interviews with cool people. And I was like, let me join them. And it was half an hour. And I was like, I make the time. So I blocked that half an hour out of my day. And this was actually the best half hour I spent on myself. So if you think we don't have the time, We also know that the Dalai Lama says if you have a lot of work ahead of you, you have to meditate more. So it's about you, and I will talk about it's about you, then you can give to the others. And we know what they say in the airplanes, put the oxygen mask first on you, and then you can help others. So it's when we think we don't have time, we need to make the time. So, Obviously, it's always interesting. I feel like I'm the person who can make a presentation in difficult times. So I talk about myth and reality. I don't want to talk politics. I think it's a difficult time at the moment. It's lifelong learning. And I, with the help of Virginie Glaenzer, we wrote an article, Lifelong Learning Isn't Just a Necessity. It's, it's a must, right? So I talk about learning, listening, and leading. And if we don't do that, where do we go? And one fact that I want to share, and this is the reality, women in Switzerland have been allowed to vote only since 1971. I always like to say that, that 1971 seems like yesterday, and you think of Switzerland as such a forward-thinking country. Actually, Switzerland has been nominated for the country who's most innovative for many years in a row. And why not, why not women can vote? And what I always want to say, just let's reflect on that. When you look at— and a friend of mine said that that's a joke. Oh, the women had to stay in the kitchen to cook. That's why the men were in government and ruling the country. But if you look at celebrity chefs, They're mostly men. So when does that switch? So the, the women are prepping and doing all the work, and then when it comes to the celebrity status, it's the men. So this is the one thing. And I also want to say, I'm an immigrant, and what I want to say is, I will speak up. I have been in the US for more than 30 years, and I'm an entrepreneur. I'm very proud of what I have achieved. I don't have a family here. Whatever I've done, I did myself, and this presentation I did without the AI. So I'm really proud, and I think we need to say it. So it's the myth and the reality that I want to go, and it's that adaptation piece that is important. So we look at the iceberg, and I researched yesterday. So 90% is hidden. What people see in our Careers is just like the number one, the medal. When I finish my marathon, yes, I have a medal. I'm proud. I get a certificate. But what people don't see, and we all are here, and I don't know about the bots, but usually we are entrepreneurs. It's about the sleepless nights. It's about the persistence. It's about when do I get more money to pay my bills or the sacrifice we go Nobody sees that. And that's why I put together like life and not learning. So keep on, I need to change my view just a little bit. Okay, then I see everything. Life, and it's about life and not learning. And why do I say that? So first we go to school, we have parents who tell us what to say and what to do. And then we go to college, we have our first job, we're very excited. It's a career, it's a rat race, it's a promotion, it's the money, the marriage, the children, everything comes in, in the mid-career. And the organizations typically say, we will take care of your career. We will take care of your career. I hear that all the time. But they don't. Actually, it's you. You have to take care of your career. And then I get that answer. I don't have time to learn. I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted. So then, as we see now, the bots, are coming in, and people don't even show up for a presentation. So I don't have time. I will listen or watch the recording. But do we do it? Actually, I don't know. So how can we incorporate that learning when we don't have time? And now we look at the statistics because everybody loves the statistics, right? The engagement is 8.9 trillion lost in the global GDP, and it's 23% of the workforce is engaged. And this is from the Gallup workplace research. 62% are not engaged, 15% are actively disengaged. And we also hear about the loneliness, the loneliness in the workplace. It's equivalent to smoking 15 cigarettes per day. So 20% of employees experience loneliness. And when we came in, we said, like, the fully remote is not so easy. So 25% of the fully remote people are experiencing loneliness. So that's why we need to come to those webinars more often. So where can we get to know great people, people who have— where we can learn from, where we can talk to, and how we can also network with others and learn from others. 16% are still fully on-site, and I know that Amazon, they want that everybody's coming back. I don't know if that's going to work. 21% is hybrid. Probably hybrid is okay, but they still feel lonely. So even if you work hybrid, you're not there, you're not at home. So it's a huge statistic that we have to work on. And then the last statistic is the 2023 research where 52% of employees, they say they are watching or actively seeking a new job. And I also, I was once in Brazil and the people, this was a time when the president was impeached. So not an easy time for me to give a presentation about hope. And people were asking me, when is a good time to start my own company? And I said, never, or now, or whatever you feel like. So maybe there will be more people who will start their own company. Who knows? But 52% is a lot of employees who are looking for another job. Who knows what's going to happen in the future? But these are the statistics. And the question is always like, how do we do that? Where do we even start? And I think it starts with yourself. So it's about the social emotional intelligence. It's that me, I call that the self-awareness. So you want to be self-aware, you want to be authentic, you want to have a story to tell, and we go into that later, and you want to have more than one story to tell. So Virginie said about me, I'm from Switzerland, I've done marathon, Ironman, I'm an author, so I have more than one story to tell. And then the self-management is also about taking care of yourself. And now is the time to voice your opinion. I think that goes into that self-management piece. And then once you have that stage, it's, it's about the social awareness. And that's when you are leading a team or even what we know that when you're working in a team, even as a fractional, You need to inspire others, you need to influence others, you need to negotiate. So that's the social awareness that you need to have and showing the empathy, especially as a coach. Empathy is a huge element. And I was at the presentation yesterday and we were talking about AI, and we know AI does not have empathy. So this is where we come in as a human being. And then the social skills, Well, that's a given as a leader. We need to have social skills. That's a visionary leadership that we are developing others because as a leader you need to create followers, people who want to work for you. So when Virginie said to me, oh, we have Econ Oak, I was like, oh, I want to be part of this. It's exciting, something visionary where you can be part of it for here and also for the future. And I'm going fairly fast through the slides, but if you have a question, just stop me, or it's okay to interrupt. So then we talk about executive presence, and a lot of people say you need to have more executive presence. Yeah, well, then we need to know what it is. So it's about the 3 main points. It's about appearance, gravitas, and communication. And this research that I have here was actually before the pandemic, and we can see another research from last year or the year before. So the appearance is 5%, how you look. So we don't want to see your unmade bed in the back when you have a Zoom. So create a nice environment, especially on the Zoom. But it's about also the communication, which is 28%. How you speak, how you convey a message is important. So we cannot go way too fast. And I know I have an accent, so we have to speak maybe a little slower. And especially when people, their first language is not English, we need to speak slower and adapt to their understanding also. And then the gravitas is like how you act. What kind of an impact do I have? And also what kind of an impact do I want to make? And this is the social emotional intelligence that we saw before with that social awareness and self-management. It's, it's really important. So now what has changed? And this is from the Harvard Business Review article, and we can send that out together with the slides. And actually in the, in the article, all the 3 pictures are aligned, but I took it out so we can see it easier. So the gravitas traits, the confidence is still the confidence. And what I also have to say, this research is not the best because in 2012 they had 268 executives responding to that survey. And in 2022, only 73. So I'm wondering where are the 200 others. So we need to ask a statistician. It's not really valid when you have such a gap in response. But still, I think it's important that you see the confidence is really on top, but then the integrity goes down and the vision comes up. So we need to create our story, more than one story. We need to create our vision. What do you want to say? What impact do you want to make in this world? Communication traits obviously seems similar. Superior speaking skills. Yes, speaking is at 28%. Command of the room. And command of the room, I think, is also important when you are in person. I always make sure that I am early, and when people come in early, that I go and talk to them and say, what brings you to this? How can we— so you create a relationship with that person. And when you present, you can say, as Virginie said, as Runa said, so you actually relate to that people. So I think that command of the room is really important, and you can bring in your energy into the room. And the same goes for Zoom. You own the room. And what I've heard from an Asian colleague of mine, she said, you know, I'm really petite, and the Zoom has helped me because everybody is the same. Everybody's the same. So you see sometimes people, they're like, oh my God, you're so tall. Oh my God, you're so tiny. And the Zoom, we're all on the same level. And what I think is super important is that appearance trait, the polished look. The polished look is important. Authenticity, 31%. And willingness to show up in person. I think once the pandemic was a little over, that people were afraid to meet in person. I think for me, actually, networking on Zoom, you spend an hour, is more effective. But then when you meet somebody in person, you have coffee, it takes you an hour to get there, an hour and a half to speak to the person, an hour to go home. So it's 2, 3 hours is gone of your day. But sometimes it's really important to make that personal connection, even if you have met in Zoom over time. Is there anything that stands out for you before I move on?

I'm good.

Okay, so now I lost. Okay, um, here is a fun way of looking at how to establish your leadership in your executive presence. I don't need to go through all the 10 points, but show up as a whole person. I mean, you don't show up as a half person, but what I think is important that you, you show yourself, you're authentic, and then lead with what you care about. And that's what I said, I'm an immigrant, I will say that now moving forward all the time, and just lead with what you really care about. And the number 6 I think is super important is start by standing still. So if you move around all the time, people are like, what is happening with her? What is, what is, yeah, why is it That she cannot sit still. And now I lost my presentation. Hold on for a second. Okay, here we are, but I don't see myself anymore. What did I do? Oh, okay, so now it's good. It's a fun way to look at and begin a conversation that others want to continue. Again, Virginie introduced me as an author, as a coach, as a marathon runner. People want to continue that. So start with something plant some seeds so that people are like, oh, I remember you. Let's talk about your books or your marathon. What is that? And I usually talk about the marathon mindset when we think about changing and adapting. How can I take the marathon mindset into the business mindset as an entrepreneur? And actually yesterday, November 19th, was National Entrepreneur Day. Okay, let's go on. I know it's already— okay, so we go into the learning, listening, and leading. And learning is learning from others. So again, you come here, you want to learn, you want to learn something new. I was at the webinar, I took the time with Amy Edmondson, she's the professor of leadership at Harvard Business school, and she says learning is more important than knowledge. So we all create an expertise, but then we are stuck and stagnant in a way with that expertise. And now we know with the AI, and yesterday they talked about hybrid intelligence. I'm like, wow, what is this? So I want to know, I'm curious, I need to know more. And there is an interesting assessment that you can take. It's called VIA. And there you see your— there's 20 assessments, and it's a free assessment. I can put that in the, in the chat later. My number 1 assessment is lifelong learning. So for me, the learning is like I cannot get enough. Be curious and ask good questions. Ask those open-ended questions. As a coach, it's super important to ask those open-ended questions. Because then you get like a full range of what the people are giving you. And I'm sharing here my favorite question: what do you do when you don't work? What do you do when you don't work? Because that gives you a picture of the whole person and also something special. I was working with somebody who was a DJ. I was working with somebody who was a violinist. And then people say, oh, I work all the time. I'm just watching TV. I'm like, oh, Oh, there we are. There we have some problems, right? But if people are curious and they do something else than just working, this is where the fun is happening. So learning is more important than knowledge. And she has great books also. So follow her. She's a fantastic person. And the listening. I met Carol Gilligan, the psychologist and feminist in New York City. She gave a presentation. She's this powerful Amazon woman. And she says the hardest times for me were not when people challenged what I said. But when I felt my voice was not heard, and especially in today's times, you have to speak up. And also Sheryl Sandberg says it, you need to have a seat at the table. If you're invited at the table, you have something to say. And also listening is not interrupting. And then as coaches, silence is very important. Just stop. What I do usually when people are talking fast and a lot, I stop, I speak slower, and then people think, what's wrong with her? Well, I like to slow them down a little bit. I can adapt to your pace, I can speak much faster, but if people are— what are they hiding? Let the silence speak, and then you see that they are feeling that silence, that there's some uncomfortable moments, but listen to what's around you and listen very carefully. So silence is really golden. And I learned yesterday that the AI, when you ask AI, can you be silent, there's no silence. So AI will say 4 points what silent means. It's interesting, right? So we as humans can still show that silence piece and enjoy that moment. Okay, we go to the leading, and this is obviously my favorite part. Katrina Adams has been a fantastic tennis player. We haven't known so much about her, but she wrote a book on the arena, and she says, on the table, on your legacy, on your courage, and 12 more, on your whatever. But how I interpret that is like, if you are invited to a meeting and you think like, why am I invited? Well, There is a reason why you are invited and not another person is invited, because you have the expertise, you have something to say, and you should be prepared to say something. So that's a prepared spontaneity that you actually can prepare. What do I want to say? If you give a presentation, you prepare. Well, sometimes we have to say, oh, you present and you have like 5 minutes to present, but you are the expert of your talk. You know what you want to talk about. But own that table and take that space. Even think of like an Olympian. If they put on that gold medal, they don't slouch, they stand up tall. So if you give a presentation, stand tall and you own this. And also you have owned it. If you have done it, nobody can take that away from you. And I gave my TEDx talk and I took my medal that I got from my Ironman. And I said, this is my medal. I worked very hard for this medal, and nobody can take that away. Even if I'm the slowest person, everybody starts at the same start line and everybody finishes at the same finish line. I earned it. So whoever or whatever you have done, it's not bragging if you have done it. And we know that RBG, that Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she said, fight for the things that you care about, but do it in a way that will lead others to join you. And that's exactly what meant by leadership, it's about creating followership, creating that followership that people want to work with you. People want to be part of your team. I had once a boss and he says, I want to be part of your winning team. And I was like, oh, okay, wonderful. I thought that was a huge compliment that I got. And when you think about executive presence, it's about what do people say about you. And it's mostly what do people say about you when you are not in the room. Think of promotions. Think of if you are applying for a boardroom seat, you are not in the room. You are not in the room. Even when they do selections, or I don't know how it works when you are as a fractional, Claudia, when you are with the lawyers, you are sometimes not in the room and they say, ah, Claudia says this or Runa says this. You need to create that message before they speak about you, or they might say, oh, Susanne, she's always a quiet person. Well, then they might not give me an opportunity. But if you speak up and you have a voice on the table, on your legacy, on your voice, that's when the people want to talk to you and bring something special to the table. Okay, and now we go into the adaptation, and you said change your mindset into the growth mindset. And we know— I love that picture of the chameleon. It's not the strongest of the species that survive, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. Again, we need to adapt. My story in India, I mean, there was no air conditioning and I was sweating and I had to change my presentation within 2 or 3 seconds. It's not easy. Or when I was in Rio and I said, we're looking forward to the Olympics. And they were like, no, we're not looking forward. So you say something, you stand in front of the people, and it's not— it doesn't resonate. So how can you get out of a difficult situation? You have to be prepared. So we all have to adapt, and change is here. And people say, I don't like change. Well, every day is different, every season is different. So we, we have to adapt no matter what. And we can talk about the 5 diminishers and the multipliers. So this is the book by Liz Wiseman. The multipliers is how the best leaders make everyone smart. And when you look at the multipliers, everybody's like, yeah, yeah, I'm the talent manager, I'm the liberator, I'm the challenger, I'm the debate maker, I'm the investor. But then on the other hand, you also have those diminishers who say people won't figure it out without me when they build their empire. It's all about me. The tyrant, the micromanager, the know-it-all, and the decision maker. We all have worked for multipliers, and we all have worked with diminishers. I can give one example. I was working with a director and he would always introduce me, this is Suzanne and she's working with me. And I always felt like, wow, this is really nice of him. Then I had another director and she said, she's working for me. And I was like, it was almost as if I got like a knife stabbed into my heart. So there is one word of difference. She's working with me. She's working for me. So we know where that goes, like the diminishers is like, hey, She's working for me. I give, I give her, I'm building my empire and she does what I tell her. Versus the multiplier, he was the liberator. He says, I know when you come to me, you need help. But other than that, I can let you run. So I had like, I could do what I wanted within the guidelines, but that's what you want to create as a leader. Make sure your people are happy. They are— they feel like that they're working for the talent manager and also an investor in you. I just let that sink in a little bit because I think this is really important. And now everybody thinks like, oh, we're on either one of those sides, but this is the fun part. I think it's the There's accidental diminishers. Don't we all know the idea fountain? Oh, I have an idea. I have an idea that people are always on. The rescuer, which is not always a bad thing, right? But the pacesetter, the optimist, the protector, the strategist, the perfectionist. And I think the perfectionist gives such a bad rep because if we weren't the perfectionists, we wouldn't be here where we are today. If you're like sloppy and like, oh, I don't know, somebody else can do it, we wouldn't be on the top of our game. Or I like to say I'm proud of the work that I do. So yes, I'm a perfectionist. I try to align everything yesterday in the presentation and make it look beautiful. So I'm wondering where are we? And I know a few people say to me, oh, you're an optimist, you're always positive. So maybe I'm a little too optimistic, I'm wondering. So I need to be more of a realist, but I think it's, it's my strength. And maybe that's my accidental diminish. I'm wondering what speaks to you and where do you see yourself? And that's actually the exercise that I I have prepared for everybody who's here, including the bots. Where, where do you see yourself so we can have a discussion? Where can we be a little more, or where can we be a little less?

Virginie Glaenzer, I'd love to ask you, in what way strategies can be a diminish— accidental diminisher?

I think if you, if you take too much of a lead, right? And this is my idea. This is, this is what we, it's, it's not including others. It's always like looking for opportunity, increase your impact and engaging with the others. It's the Simon Sinek has an interesting framework where he says leaders speak last. So you can actually come into a meeting and you need to introduce it because sometimes people are like, what's wrong? That they don't speak. So you say, today I will just listen to everybody. So everybody comes in with their own strategy, and you as the leader, even though you have your strategy, you come last, or you summarize what others have said, and then you come together and find the best strategy together. Does that make sense?

Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much.

I was working once with a person and he said he was always on, so he slept with the telephone next to his, to his bed. And he said, put the phone somewhere else. Don't call back if people call me. He was working in a manufacturing company. He said, yeah, but what if the late shift? And we're like, The Liz Wiseman says people are smart, they figure it out. So he challenged him and he let the phone ring first of all, and he would only call back 20 minutes later. And sometimes people say, oh no, everything is fine. So we're like, see, people are smart, they figure it out. So you don't always have to be on or rescue everybody. I think also the pace setter is, is an important diminisher. I like to go at my pace. This is something when, when I have to work with a team, I was working with like we did role plays and then we had to write reports. And somebody else had to provide some input of their roleplays with the candidate. And I was like, oh, please send it to me, please send it to me. So I had to adapt my pace to their pace, which I was not really happy. I just had to adapt to that. Virginie Glaenzer.

I have another question, but it's more, um, I think it'd be— it's beyond the exercise, so I don't know if you want me to wait.

No, no, that's okay.

Okay, yeah, I'm, I'm curious to know what, what tactic would you, uh, offer or suggest to, uh, help us change into a growth mindset?

Yeah, so let's go back. So it's actually people are smart, they figure it out. So in a way, you also let the people fail. You ask more questions. So as a fractional, obviously, you, you, I'm just generalizing. So you come in, there is a project, there is a timeline, you have maybe a team. Ask a lot of questions. When, how, who, and then maybe you would interview people. And the liberator and the investor is also when you can assign a stretch assignment to somebody. And we all know people can do more. Obviously, we have like, we need to have all the players. I always say like, we have 26 letters of the alphabet. So we don't always have only type A personalities or people who are like us. So we need to include those people who like 9 to 5, that's it. I don't want to do more. But sometimes when you give somebody a stretch assignment, and it can be as little as have them train somebody else, have them shadow somebody, that gives them a little bit of a lift, and they can do great work, and they're proud of the work. So that's kind of like how you can open up and empower somebody else. And for you, empowering others is also empowering you. So if you lift each other up, everybody gets lifted up. And I think it's just seeing opportunities rather than problems or challenges. And I did a, a class in appreciative inquiry and also positive psychology, So when you change the questions into a positive outcome, that's when you get positive. So you ask the question, what do you like about your job? Initially, when people take a job, even as a fractional, you might interview people that you work with and you might ask them, what do you like about your assignment that you're on? And they say something positive. They rarely would say, I work too much, I hate my job. But if you ask them, How does your day look like? They might come in and say, oh my God, I have to get up and it's tough. Ask the right questions. I think that's the first point, like ask the right question to elicit something positive. And again, as I said, we don't always have only type A personalities. I had once a vice president in HR and he says people do the best that they can and you have to accept that not everybody is as as perfectionist as we are. And people typically don't get up in the morning and say, today I will only make mistakes. So I think you can tap into that, like, what is the energy, what is the motivation? And if you're a motivated person, then again, it's creating that followership. Great question. We all need more like And I just put some practical tips together, like never give up, especially in today's time. If you have a dream, do it. Be authentic, be yourself, and have your story ready. And not only one story, I think it's important to have multiple stories. And then the networking is reaching out to others, and it should start today, not like when people need to find a job or It's just, that's when it's too late. So the networking should start immediately and enlarge your network and also have a diverse network. So if you are a CMO, you only connected to CMOs, do you get clients through those CMOs? If I'm a coach, I'm only connected to coaches. I don't get rarely work from other coaches. So I need to venture out and that's why my niche is with that sports mindset, it's important that people who understand sports and they want to move up in their career, they're like, she understands, she knows what she's talking about. And I can tap into that. I had a client and he was a competitive swimmer and in the work he was a little lazy. And I said, he's asked, how can I become better? I said to him, what do you do in swimming? We train every single day. Well, that's what you do in life. You train every single day. You need to add something. You need to add more skills. And that's what it is. And then also what I think is important, book the time to yourself. We heard from Claudia that she took the time today. So thank you so much. And all the bots who are here, thank you for taking the time. We can only learn from each other, and now is the time. But I also want to give some positive examples. It seems like we focus so much on the negative. So I just heard Whoopi Goldberg started an all-women's sport network, and it's called AWSN, and it started November 13th. And she said in an interview it took her 16 years. She was talking to people, people, people, people, and everybody says, no, no, no, this is not a good idea. No, no, 16 years. So what is that? Never give up. If you have a dream, do it. And Melinda French Gates, we know she donates a billion over the next 2 years. For women's rights organizations, but it's also you can be a role model for others today and tomorrow, and now is the time to do it. Okay, so this is all I have for today. I'm very happy to be here, and I'm wondering what is helpful and what will you take away from today. And my contact is all here.

Thank you so much, Suzanne, for spending time with us and putting that together. I think it's always refreshing to hear some fundamentals because we're so ingrained in our own work that we just sometimes lose track of things that are really important and make a difference. For me, what resonated the most was the fellowship idea or reminder and the multiplier view. I really like that. Thinking through the lens of this multiplier view and looking at some of my skill set or personality traits that could be a diminisher, accidental diminisher versus a multiplier. I have a question for you. So you, you are coaching a lot of people and a lot of women, I would assume. So what do you think is the biggest hurdle for women specifically to grow and to lead? What have you found in your coaching practice?

Yeah, I think it's a speaking up. It's the speaking up simply. And then when you get interrupted, that you say, hey, I'm still speaking, I want to finish, that you are strong to say that. And not— I mean, I come from Switzerland where you are only talking when you're asked. And when I came to the US, I had to learn to speak up and I was like, oh my God, I'm rude. So you have to obviously adapt to culture if you do it in Asia, more pushy. In Europe, we all know Virginie Glaenzer, we're all from, not from the US. So it's a different mentality. And I think you need to adapt, but as women, adaptable, and we can do it. And it's just my example again, why are celebrity chefs male and not female? I mean, it's changing a lot, but also when I was working in human resources, everybody at the ground, everybody, maybe one or two, everybody was a female. And then when you look at the director level, everybody was a man. Why? I know we have marriage and children and everything, but this needs to change. And I think now is the time to do it at the local level and to have an impact. And it's, it's helping each other out, supporting women. And supporting women network. So it's— and I will have— and I, since we're a small group, I will have Miss Santa Claus workshop on December 6th, because December 6th is when we celebrate Saint Nicholas in Europe. And I always say Miss Santa Claus, she's actually the CEO, the COO, the CFO, and the CXO, because she's baking in the background. So she's a planner, she knows the marketing, and she's also having a diverse team. So that's why we can learn from Miss Santa Claus. And I'm I'm excited to do that. And it's about supporting each other, supporting the right people who do great work.

Yeah. Thank you so much, Suzanne.

Can I just tag on your answer, Suzanne, to Virginie about women not speaking up the same? I absolutely agree. And I think it is related to lack of confidence. That's what I am learning, that a lot of women, even though we are living in different times, are suffering from lack of confidence to use that voice. So that's something we are still working on, taking our space, stepping into our power, you know, be bigger, take, take, literally take space.

Yeah, yeah, thank you.

And, and I, uh, what, what kind of stands out for me, and it's nothing new, but it's your emphasis on the learning. I think that's such a key. It's such an opener for moving forward, having that curiosity to be learning all the time.

And I think sometimes it's also important that we learn something different. I took a Coursera class in digital marketing a few years ago, and I learned so much— the augmented reality. And it was, I have to say, it was so cool. So sometimes we need to learn something that is not in our field. Yes, we love psychology as a coach, or the whatever mindset multipliers, but sometimes if we learn something totally different, it opens up even more. So what could we learn outside? I would like to learn chess. I am not a chess player, but I think that That's what I would like to add to my toolkit next year.

Yeah, that's on my list as well because my grandson is starting to play chess, so I'm starting to try to play with him and he is still smarter than me, but so I thought I better get learning here.

Good, okay.

I don't know if it's possible, but I would love to invite Veronica if she's able to speak to share with us her experience in developing her growth mindset and the learn and learning ability, what she has found useful and challenging. So Veronica, if you're able to share anything with us, would love to hear your experience. Hi, good afternoon. Um, I think the biggest challenge is just the overwhelming amount of information sources. Like, right now there's so many areas where you can go and find information and just trying to absorb it all and obviously be able to apply it because it's not just learning it and hearing it, but it's actually the application of it. And I think that's just been the biggest challenge for me.