Ep #036 | The Art of Reinventing Yourself for a New Career or Business with Icon Miki Agrawal

Very often we go into the topic of reinvention. I just met a man, for example, who's been in the Same field for 10 years and I asked him, so tell me what you do. And he's like, well, I don't want to tell you what I do now because I'm bored with what I do. I want to reinvent myself. And yesterday I met a wonderful woman who told me that after five years of being in the same career, she's looking for something that truly lights her up. So whether we talk about finding our next passion or reinventing ourself, or finding that thing that lights us up, what we are ultimately talking about is disrupting the old way of our being and emerging into something new. Sort of like the metamorphosis from a caterpillar to a butterfly. And all of us go through this multiple times in our life. I went through my metamorphosis when I went from being a meditation teacher to building a technology company and being able to put on festivals like a fest and create apps like the Mindvalley app. So all of us often go through this period of our life where we feel a discomfort, but that discomfort is a sign that there's something beautiful emerging. So what we're going to talk about here in this episode is on the art of disrupting yourself and how to help the old move away to let something newer come in. It is the art of what I call in my book the beautiful destruction, letting what is simply good be move away so that what is truly great can emerge in your life. So I'm filming this in a fest in Algave, Portugal, and the woman I have on set is someone whom I'm so thrilled to have. Her name is Nikki Agrabal and if you haven't heard of her, you will soon. She created Thinx, a high tech period proof underwear brand. She led the company as CEO to a valuation of over 150 million. She realized that most of these products that to help women deal with their periods were invented by men and she wanted to go in and disrupt that money. Then she invented Tushy. Tushy is the modernized designer bidet for America. So Tushy is actually bringing modern hygiene to America through installable bidets. And finally, she created her own pizza company, Wild and acclaimed farm to table alternative pizza concept with three locations in New York City and one in Guatemala. Just because. Nikki Agrawal.

Great job. Hi, I'm here. Wow, it's so happy to be here.

Nikki Agrawal, she wrote this incredible book. Not only is this Book. Brilliant. But this book is a work of art. It is one of the most creative books I've come across, filled with beautiful artworks and drawings. Mickey was just telling me that she actually took an art class so that she could draw and add up to her own book. This book. And I'm going to read you just one line from the back cover. It's a whole body of fuck. Yes to your work, your life, your relationships, and your mission, while doing it authentically, unapologetically, and with full integrity. Now, before I bring on Mickey, you can watch her a fest talk for free on the Mindvalley Talks channel on YouTube. She was one of Inc. Magazine's most impressive woman entrepreneurs of 2016, made the COVID of Entrepreneur magazine in 2016, and most recently she was named Fast Company's most creative people in 2018. Get ready to go deeper with Nikki Agrawal. You go into these industries and you start companies really fast. And a mutual friend of us, Mia. Mia, is saying that Mickey has a special power, right? And she said that whenever you have an idea, your time, from idea to disruption to actual creation, is super fast because you know how to inspire, connect people, how to think, how to connect the dots and birth these companies into the world. And that's, you know, you know, one of the things I want you to share with us. You are such an original thinker, such a visionary. I'd love for you to go into some of the ideas from your book for the people who are watching here.

It's actually not complicated. I think we as human beings love to overcomplicate things. We love to put too many lists together. We love to just create complication in our lives when it actually isn't that hard. It's really about putting one foot in front of the other every single day. And so it's. If you're interested in creating a business, of starting something new, of disrupting a category without any experience, which is if there's one unifying thing between the four businesses that I started, is that I had no experience in any of them. And yet it really was about having the conviction to just put one foot in front of the other and do something every single day towards the thing you want to do. And I really believe that if you have the discipline to do one or two things towards your business, towards your idea, towards your passion, you can disrupt anything. It's not rocket science. I think most people love to talk and not actually take action, and that's it.

So, Mickey, what would be some of the first things that someone would think about or do if they're looking to reinvent the.

Yeah, I think the first thing that people can do is start first just catching the thoughts that come into their heads. You know, in my book Disruptor, I talk a lot about how to become a warrior gatekeeper of your mind. And how do you become a warrior gatekeeper of your mind is to start really practicing catching all the thoughts that come into your head and naming them. So as an example for me or for most people, we have a lot of judgment for about to start something. We're about to get, you know, get after something. If we're start to. If we want to quit our jobs and go go after something completely different, we just start to have these thoughts creep in. Judgy Judy comes in, you know, mean Margie comes in. Who am I to do this? Why am I, you know, like I'm scared. What are my parents gonna say? You start to doubt yourself? Doubtful. You know, dilly, you know, all these characters come in. You name the characters and you then you catch them before they get into your brain. And so when you catch these thoughts, you can then say, okay, this is a conversation with my coach on Tuesdays at 11am so this is a conversation that I'm not gonna let this person through my gate. And once you stop letting all these negative thoughts into your gate. Because a lot of the things that come into our gate, our mental gate, are pretty kind of self deprecating, negative and worrisome because we live in a world where we're taught to worry and it's all this sort of negative headlines and news, it's constant. And so to really catch all those negative thoughts, as a meditation teacher, I'm sure you know how to create that space, right? Once you catch them, you then you say, no, not today. And then you start to really flex the muscle of your brain to let all these new thoughts come in. And so the negative thoughts are kind of like the caterpillar y thoughts, right? And how do you let all these new ideas. You need to clear the space first. You need to let your brain just go through this sort of clearing out process. And the only way to do that is to catch.

I love that. I'm loving what you said. Now for those of you watching, this ties in to an earlier episode I filmed actually in this same set with the Reverend Michael Beckwith. Michael had just lost his father and he spoke about the thought of sadness. But he said, my entire feel is bliss. I'm a person of bliss. But sadness becomes my companion. And I know it'll be with me for a while, but I observe it, I embrace it, I don't push it away. And what you said kind of resonates with that, right? We have these thoughts and they are floating in our field. And I love what you just said, that self doubt. Okay, I'm going to, I'm not denying it. I'm just going to set a schedule to work on that with my therapist or my coach on Sunday. So think of these thoughts as floating around your field, but it might also serve you to call them companions. You are not the thought. You having a thought of unworthiness doesn't mean you're unworthy. It's simply a companion in your field.

Yes, that's right. And I think that when you're really like in tune with what every, with everything that comes into your mind, you start to become sort of like a ninja of your brain. You really start to say, wow, I can control my thoughts. It's kind of like people who start lucid dreaming, right? It's just like, wow. All of a sudden I have agency over my own thoughts versus the thoughts coming in, they spiral out of control. All of a sudden, an hour later, you're still, you know, mumbling about something that happened and it just completely just wasted your time versus just saying, oh, wow, I just caught that. And now I've, I've been able to file it away in the right way. And like you said, you know, what did you call it? You said, you know, companion, right? Have these companions and know when to, when to approach it and know really, you know when to like, you know, really focus on each one of those things. And when you do that, you really, it's, it's, it's space creating. And when you space, when you space create, you, it's, it's like 90% of your mind is now clear to invite in new things, new thoughts, new ideas. You start looking at the world again with a fresh pair of eyes and you start getting inspiration with, with a new renewed sense.

And that brings me to the second question. So one of the most unusual things about you is you are sheer creativity in like, even the way you dress, the way you get on stage, the advertisement that you just created, it's radically new. And so when I see you, it's like observing an artist of life. And in your book disrupt her, you wrote about the importance of getting back to your childlike curiosity, playfulness and awe. How do we do that?

Yeah, so I think it's, it's, you know, so important for Us to put ourselves as adults in a container of playfulness. And what does a container pain of playfulness looks like? Simply going out and literally going to a park and riding a merry go round, or going and doing, you know, just doing jumping jacks in the park or doing literally anything that gets yourself back into a childlike state of curiosity, playfulness and awe. We as adults and just in life, in society, we've been taught at a very young age, get serious as you grow up, get your hair out of the clouds, sit down, be quiet. And then you, all of a sudden you're like, oh, okay. And then they say, if you want to go to college and shut up and listen. If you want to get a job, then shut up and listen. You get really, really worried. In my book Disruptor, I talk about a story of this guy, Gordon McKenzie, who is one of the top creative directors at Hallmark. And he just as to get inspiration, would go to elementary schools and he would have conversations, elementary school kids, and just to get inspiration, creative inspiration, because kids are such conduits for creativity. And so when he would go, he would go to kindergarteners, he would ask them, who here is an artist? And literally every single kid shot up out of their chairs and were like, me, me, me, I'm an artist. Every single one of the kids just like, believed truly that they're artists. Then he went to the first graders, who here is an artist? And literally half the kids raised their hands, not like right now, just like this. And then by the time he got to the fourth, fifth and sixth grade, it was one kid going like this, don't pick me, don't pick me. And it was such a telling story of what happens when society tries to kind of put us into these positions of just submission. And teachers aren't doing that on purpose. They don't want you to lose your creativity. But they've been taught that this is how you have order, this is how you have people taught. But it's just not. It's just not the case for most people today. The way we're taught back then is literally the way people were taught in the industrial revolution so that you can create cogs in a machine. You know, the way during the industrial boom, people needed to learn how to become factory workers. And so the schools were literally built to create factory workers so that if a factory worker didn't show up, they can put someone in its place who took order, who took, you know, who took orders in a very specific way. To be taught in that way today is just not in line with how we all think, which is why there's such a high level of dissatisfaction when it comes to school. And so that was such a telling story for me where I was like, my goodness, like, if we can really get back to that kindergarten state, can we really open ourselves up to more creativity, to more disruption in our lives? And so for me, a great story in my own life is my idea for Thinx, which is now valued at, you know, a lot of money was created. Over 100 million was created in a container of playfulness. And how does, how do we create? How do we do that? Well, my family has a family barbecue called Agripalooza. And you know, we play games, three legged race, egg toss. These are adults playing these childish games. Volleyball. We have a talent show where everyone at the party has to come with a talent. And if you don't have a talent, you're not allowed to come. And so everyone, it doesn't matter. Like Tony Hsieh did a magic trick in one time. You know, we had like Asif Manvi did a stand up comedy routine, people did yoga tricks, people did whatever, like juggling. But you had to come with a talent. And so you had to like shake yourself awake from your seriousness of adulthood. You know, in my book I talk about hashtag adulting versus. Yeah, right, in the adulting state versus getting back into your awing state. Your awing state is like, you know, as a kid, I have a new baby who's under 2 years old and his first word was wow. He was like, wow. And I say wow all the time, so maybe he caught the word. But it's just when you walk around in life just saying wow, like a child, you literally see things in a different way. I look at the planet differently, I look at art differently, look at literally people walking differently. When I see people sitting in a subway, I look at how they sit. And that gives me ideas for my photo shoots. Oh, look. How do you sit? Like in a really casual way, but still cool and still interesting. It still makes me want to look at you. How do you sit? How do you turn in a way that, you know, that's intriguing. And I look at everything in the world just through a fresh wow pair of eyes. And I think we often have forgotten to do that because we just have this sort of like, gotta get to work, gotta do this, gotta do that. And you forget to look up and, and look around you in a different way. So the minute you do that, you can, when you get back to your childlike state, of curiosity, playfulness and awe. You can and create businesses. You know, literally the idea for things was born in a three legged race. Championship title. You know, when my sister and I were defending our championship title, you know, in the middle of the race, my twin sister started her period, Radha started her period. And as we ran up the stairs, still tied to each other and she was washing the blood out of her, of her bathing suit bottoms was when the idea hit. And so oftentimes your best ideas come when you're playing. I mean, think about it. When you're in the shower, people always say, oh my God, we come up with our best solutions, our best ideas. In the shower, we come up with our best ideas, best solutions. When we're on vacation, we come up with because we give ourselves the space to just like, you know, just be. And I think that when we're in that space, wow, we're a conduit for creativity. That's why I love Burning Man. It's the same reason why.

Wow. Okay, now you also talk about how to figure out your lit path as opposed to your traditional career path. Yes, let's talk about that for a moment.

Yes. And so when you think about how we've been taught, we've been taught to follow a career path. If you do this job and stay in your safe lane, you'll get the house, the picket fence and the car and the kids and the family and you'll live your safe, good life and then society will applaud you. You know, is that really what we want today? You know, do we want to follow a traditional career path or do we want to follow a path that lights us up, Our lit path? I think about, you know, this friend of mine who's a doctor and he spent literally the last 10 years in medical school to become, you know, to school, medical school, specialty, all that stuff. And when he came out, he was like, ugh, I don't know if I want to be a doctor anymore. Because he just wasn't satisfied. And I was like, well, go and go. Like, you know, we only from the point of graduate college to the point we die, we only have 21,000 days to live. That's it. So what are we going to do with that time? We're going to spend it just because our, you know, our immigrant families who we love so much, put us through school and we're the first person in our family to make something of ourselves or to go to college or to get a job, like become a doctor and just live that life because it's it's valued by our family or do you want to follow literally the path that lights us up? We can see when someone's eyes are lit up. We can see when someone's sort of dim. We can see when someone is just sort of living a neutral life, you know, And I can, I'm a, I'm so drawn to the people whose eyes are just like sparkling because they're living their lit up lives. But then you think about like what society does. Society shames us for switching careers. Society often shames us for saying, I don't want to do this anymore, I'm going to go somewhere else. Oh, what? You failed? Oh, what? You're so immature. You can't just focus. You can't just stick to one thing. You have to keep just jumping around. We just get name called a lot. And so because of that shaming, we often just stay in the safe jobs. Even our parents who love us, you know, they're like, you're gonna quit your, you know, your investment banking job and you're gonna go and try your hand and film. Like, what do you think you're doing? Like, stay in your safe job. You have student loans to pay off. You have this, you have that. Like, like, no, like you got this job. Stay there. And it's just, it's just not, it's just not real life. It's not real and authentic to you. And therefore you just, you're no longer happy. You even think about people like Michael Jordan, talk about that. In my book Disruptor, I talk about people like Michael Jordan who when he went, arguably the best basketball player in the world, went from basketball to baseball. What happened in baseball, everyone just laughed him off the pitch. What are you doing? You suck. Literally the best athlete in the world, they just shamed the shit out of him on the baseball diamond because they couldn't take him getting out of his path into something different. And so we have to catch our own biases, we have to catch our own judgments of ourselves and of others. Oh, why they change their jobs? Oh, they've now switched three times. Like, what does that mean about them? They can't stick to their job. And we, it's again the judgy Judy that just keeps coming and coming and coming versus saying, wow, look at that person just getting after it, going after their dream. Steve Jobs talked about this thing that really hit me and he said, you can never connect the dots looking forward, but you can always connect the dots looking backwards, right? And so oftentimes our lives might seem Very zigzaggy. But so many things connect afterwards. So when you think about my own life, and I'm sure your life too, you've tried your hand at so many different meditation teacher, all the different things, but that meditation teacher helps you become a better leader, helps give you the space to talk to people in a really calm way when, especially if you're feeling heated, you still have that beat, right? So for me, when you think about my career path, you're like, wow, investment banking, you know, oh, you play professional soccer. Oh, you worked in the film business. Oh, you started a restaurant, then you started an underwear company and then you have a bidet business. Like, what is happening? But literally, the investment banking gave me the tools to understand finance and talk about finance with investors later in life, you know, I learned how to put a spreadsheet together, put projections together, every single thing looking back, informed the thing, the next thing that I did. So nothing's ever futile, nothing's ever just like, oh, you know, I just did that and wasted my time. It's like it's. Everything connects, looking backwards and, you know.

And speaking of Steve Jobs, Steve Jobs, when he enrolled in Reed College, he took a class in calligraphy. And I bet you people were telling him, you're such a brilliant mind, you're studying Asian calligraphy. But because of that class, when he created the Apple computer, Apple had the best fonts, fonts any other person.

And he knew how it matters, dominated the field. Yes. And he said, I don't care what anyone says, the computer has to say hello with this font. And if it doesn't, we're failed. And so, and I think that it's exactly right, the attention to detail, understanding the fonts, the art, the creativity that was informed by his past experiences.

And if we all think about it, very often when you think you're on the wrong place, there's something there that you're going to learn. So I'm here at a fest, right? We're filming this at a fest in Algarve. And I would never, growing up, think that I would be running a transformation company and running this spectacular festival. But I was a photographer at one point, I was an actor. My acting career never took off. My photography career never took off.

But look at you now. You can talk like this with one take.

What was seeming failures, what I thought were failures. Now when I look at a fest, one of the things you notice most about a fest is how spectacular the photography is, Right. And because I was in, my acting career, never took off. But What I learned from that is how to get on stage, how to get in front of camera. But I never could. There was no way I could have connected the dots. Looking forward, right? Exactly. So I was sad when my acting career plummeted. I was sad when I just realized I could not be a photographer. But now when I look back, those were gifts. And sometimes I almost believe that the universe is lining us up.

Absolutely.

And so embrace what you've done in the past and try to figure out what were those skills, what were those ideas that you can mix and merge together, together to create something truly new. And I think that is really where.

Creativity comes from, 100%.

In your book, Mickey, you also speak about the importance of iteration. So you get better every day at all the things you are doing instead of focusing on being perfect.

Yes. We live in society where we're being advertised to thousands and thousands of times every single day, whether it's on our phones, whether it's a quick ad on the subway, whether you're driving, whether you're walking, you're just hit with ads and ads and ads. And so. And what do you often see? A beautiful woman, a beautiful person, people laughing. And you just see this perfect world. And you also think about social media. We put our most perfect parts of our lives on social media. So we don't really see the messy parts of our lives. And so we are just taught that being perfect is the most important thing. But it's not. It's actually the iterative process that's perfect. It's making micro adjustments in your life that's perfect. It's not being perfect. It's the iterative process that's perfect. And when you realize that you can see, where have I grown? You start looking at, wow, like just six months ago to where I am today. I have made all these micro adjustments, and I feel so proud of myself versus fretting. Was I perfect? Am I perfect? Was perfect then? I was not perfect, and I'm not perfect still. You're never going to be perfect. No one's ever going to be perfect. If there's something that's certain, nobody is going to be perfect. So what we can focus on is constantly improving. And I talk about, in my presentation at a fest yesterday, I talked a lot about how all these companies, you know, 88% of Fortune 500 companies from 1955 are now gone. Let me repeat that. 88% of Fortune 500 companies From 1955 are now gone. And why? Because they did not iterate fast enough. All These companies failed in the end because they just couldn't get past their own. Like this is. But this is working. But this is working. And we're not going to change. And I don't. The digital cameras will never be a thing. Oh, no one's going to buy CDs and have them delivered at home. Digital video is not going to work. We just know what we know and we're going to stick to this. And guess what happened? They didn't iterate fast enough and they're all gone. And so in our lives, not even just in business, but in our lives, if we just are focusing on being perfect, we are going to stagnate. You know, iteration is perfection, stagnation is death. I talk about that in Disruptor all the time. When you stagnate is when you die. It's when you're literally in a box, you're dead. That's cause you're stop. You stop moving. It's really about moving and moving and moving again. And that's what we often forget is that it's the how have I gone from today to tomorrow, today to next week, today to next month, today to six months. And when you see, wow, I really took those micro steps and I stopped saying little things. Even if you stop saying things like sorry as a person or you stop, you said, I focused on not saying sorry and wow, I gained confidence in myself. I started putting $10 away every week because I read this book and I'm just putting it towards in a Vanguard account and oh my God, like two years from now, compound, compound, compound. And it just, it compounds. And you're just like, wow, that's everything in my life as well. If I just put a little thing away, it's gonna compound, the effects will compound in your life. And so we simply must stop comparing ourselves. Comparison is also the enemy of happiness. Right? And so if we continue to compare ourselves to that person's thinner than me, that person is more perfect than me, that person's more wealthier than me, that person's life is better. You'll just never be happy. So if you focus on yourself, your own alignment with yourself, your iterative process within yourself, my goodness, will we be happier?

Amazing. Amazing. I love what you just said. So there were so many powerful ideas over there and now I want to go to some other ideas from the book. And this book says a manifesto for the modern woman. But really, as you showed me on the opening page, it talks about why men are going to benefit from this book as well. Right. A note to men. So I don't want you to think that because you are a male, this book isn't for you. I'm really looking forward to reading this book because I've been so awestruck by everything I've heard you say on stage, just yesterday and here. But I want to go into some specific pointers in your book for women, which I find interesting because as a male, I want to understand this. First, you said, define feminism for yourself and help men to remove the mask of masculinity by loving and supporting them when they show their emotional side. Let's talk about.

Yes. So we live in a society where we have gendered ourselves, right? So women are emotional, men are unemotional, women are allowed to share emotions, men are not allowed to share emotions. And I think that we as a society have helped put men, put a mask of masculinity on men, which means that, you know, we're all emotional beings, men and women. Did you know that it's more societally acceptable for men to be violent than to be emotional? This is a fact. And so to be more violent than emotional is more acceptable in society. And so we as women, as society, have been taught that, oh, if a man cries, he's a sissy. Or, you know, oh, if he shows emotions, like, I don't want to be with someone like that because he can't protect me, how's he gonna protect my emotional state? And so, you know, you think about us and loving the James Dean type person, right? Ugh, I don't wanna date him. He's too nice. You know, we. We've also, as women, really, you know, send signals to society, to men, that we want a man that's unemotional. We want a man that can provide for us. We want a man that, you know, that is just this certain way that's kind of like a little bit mean, a little like. But that's sexy, you know, because that's kind of what we've been taught. And I think, you know, in, in. In one of the chapters in my book, I talk a lot about the bonobo apes, and I talk about how we as women have forgotten that we do hold so much of humanity right here in our wombs. We obviously need the sperm to make that happen. However, we can choose which sperm that, that we, that we bring in to create the next generation. And then we. And if we spend our time really focusing on choosing the good, kind, loving men. So, so let me rewind for a second. The bonobo apes, they operate as a Matriarchy and the female bonobos really support each other and collaborate together. And every time there's an aggressive male bonobo that tries to get with the female bonobo in an aggressive way, all the females come together and shun that aggressive male away. And that aggressive male will never be able to procreate with a female again and will literally die a lonely, miserable death by himself. Whereas the female bonobos only choose to procreate with the kindest, gentlest, most loving male bonobos and in one generation can turn an otherwise really aggressive society into a kind, gentle, loving one. And so for us as women, as people, you know, we really do control who we let in to our bodies literally and say we will only choose to procreate with the kind, gentle, loving men who support and lift us up and lift each other up, lift society up, lift everybody up. And that in one generation can completely shift the world. And so we just, we just forgot about that. And even, even today, like, you know, you know, women really got into the workforce not even a generation ago. In the very beginning of the last generation, women started to get into the workforce for real. And so women as women are getting more into positions of power. I don't know if you know the stat, but 64% of women are either primary or co breadwinners now. Primary. You know, most of my female friends are primary, co breadwinner, primary or co breadwinners. And so not only do we control the kind of people that we procreate with, but we also control the purse strings in a lot of ways too now. And so we do have the ability and the power to really help society move in this conscious direction, this more loving direction, this more emotionally aware direction where it's okay to be with a partner that does lift us up. And I talk about snags too in this chapter, which I can talk about.

Let's go into that. What is a snag?

A snag is a secure new age guy. And new age guys, it's not like, you know, someone who's like, you know, like a hippie, when I mean, my secured new age guy is just someone who is really in touch with himself and his self evolution as a man. You know, we think about what is modern masculinity today. You know, in the wake of Me too and all these, you know, things that are happening in society, men are so, it's like, where do they fit in? You know, I have a son and I want him to grow up feeling like he can approach a woman and not, not Worry about what she's gonna say about him. I want him to feel like he can still be a man and still have his masculine presence, but also be emotionally aware at the same time. Like, you can be both. And I think that snags are on a quest of self exploration, are on a quest to really get in touch with their emotional states and really are okay with. With sharing their love and okay. Sharing their fears and. Okay. And feeling safe enough to do that. Where women have to also create that space to allow men to feel safe enough to do that too. So it's a collaborative thing. It's not like one or the other. You know, it's interesting. I talk about feminism, and we talked about that, and, you know, feminism, the term feminism is fraught with such connotation. And when a reporter once asked me, are you a feminist? I said, I don't define myself with any term because there's just. There's too much connotation around those terms. Do I support gender equality? Absolutely. Do I want to wear the future's female T shirts and do exactly that which oppress men, which is what women are fighting against? We don't want to other men by saying, the future's female because you did it to me, I'm going to do it to you. Now, that is actually not in support of the greater humanity or the greater cause that we women are fighting for, which is simply to be at the table together, holding hands, loving on each other that we want to be doing by future as female wearing those T shirts and wearing the sort of, like, you know, like, what's our turn? It's just. It's not going to work. It's not going to create. It's not going to create that balance that we want. It's only going to actually strengthen the patriarchy. A counterintuitive approach thinking about elevating the women's movement is by loving good men. It's by choosing good men. And we forgot that we aren't doing that as women, that we are often choosing the assholes. So we're often choosing the guy, you know, with the big swinging dick who has, like, the sort of, you know, who has the money and the power, because we want that money and that power too. And so instead, it's like, if we love the good men, if we choose the good, loving men, we are supporting the women's movement.

Nikki, that was beautiful. Thank you so much for everything you shared. And for those of you who want to go deeper in her work, check out this book, Disrupt her men women alike read this book. Thanks, guys. And thank you, Nikki.