Rising to Fame, Overcoming Addiction, & Finding Self-Love | The Mindvalley Podcast | Ep #59

There was a time in my life where I didn't feel like I was doing my best personally. I was waking up, I was making choices that weren't in my best interest and I was abandoning myself in every way possible.

Today I'm with Lucy Hale, the star of Pretty Little Liars, and we're going to talk about her success, her career, her rise to fame, and also her deepest, darkest moments of dealing with alcohol, anxiety, depression.

I said, I have to be done. I actually have got to be done. Having a dark night of the soul can actually be fun. If you're actually having the dark night of the soul, guess what? It's only up from here.

I feel like a lot of us women confused empowerment with victimhood. Meaning that we went into. Instead of waking up to our power, we went into blame.

I was always wanting to do the right thing and make everyone happy. I didn't have a voice. I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know how to advocate for myself.

If you're seeking love and approval and validation on the outside, there is no amount.

No, it'll never be enough.

Not enough. It'll never be enough. For anyone who's listening and is going through the dark night of the soul. What would be your, like, top three pieces of advice?

I think for me it's. I always felt I was a very intuitive kid. Like, I think all kids are like hyper aware, right? And have those abilities way more and we kind of lose those abilities as an adult. But I remember as a kid I was like very sensitive to the point of like, didn't like being around a lot of people. I didn't like going into restaurants. And now as an adult, I realize that that was just my antenna were just up, right? Like I was absorbing everything that was happening. It was like sensory overload. I. And now I realize it wasn't my own anxieties, it was the anxieties or feelings of anyone within that room. So I was always like, very sensitive and emotional or like difficult, I guess. But that just meant I was just like very. I was dealing with some heavy emotions that I didn't know. I didn't know how to properly deal with them. But I was very intuitive. Like, I. I would have these feelings as a little kid and I would bring them up to my mom and sometimes they would come true. I remember one time I was probably 12 and we were on a highway and it was raining really badly and out of nowhere I just started crying and I was like, mom, get off the highway now. Get off the highway right now. And she was like, okay. So we pull off the driveway, we sit. I couldn't explain what was happening, but I was having, like, a very physical reaction to something that was gonna happen in the future. So we get back on the highway, and I still get chills thinking about it. We get back on the highway and an accident had just happened. Maybe, like, I don't know, 10 minutes. So we would have been involved in that accident? I think so. Like, I was. I was very tuned in as a kid. You were psychic, I think. I think that's what.

Yeah, I guess we were picking up on everybody's energy, basically, yes. And if there was sadness, if it was. There was anxiety, you would pick it up, definitely.

And I've. And I've always kept that. I've always. But I. Somewhere along the way, like, lost that. That psychic. I don't want to say I've lost it because it's still with me. I think it's just like you. You just gotta dust it off a little. It gets, like, locked away. I think it scared me, ultimately. But I've always been extremely. And people throw this word around, like, empathetic. But I think what I mean by that is I've always been able to read people very clearly, for better or worse. Doesn't mean I've always, like, listened to that. But I. I think that's why I wanted a career in acting, because I could. I know how to access these different emotions.

When you were a kid and you were feeling all of those emotions in certain, like, events or around certain people, did you ever question yourself that, oh, my God, am I crazy? Why am I feeling this way? Was there anybody who actually understood you?

No. Well, let me rephrase. Like, my. I have a beautiful family, but I always. And they know this. I've said this publicly already. Like, I always felt very different. I always. I think as a kid, I felt like an outcast. I felt like it was very hard for me to connect with people. And I still feel that on a certain level. But I think it's because I've always desired to want to connect in this kind of way. I've always. As a kid, like, I was questioning things very early on, like, what am I really doing here? Like, why am I really on the planet? Like, what is this? What is this concept of God? Like, asking the bigger questions at a young age? I always wanted to be normal or feel things normally. And I do think I experience things in a deeper way. And I don't mean that in an Entitled way. Not like, oh, I just understand the world more. Not like that. I was always. It felt like a burden. It felt like a burden to. To be so hard on myself. I think I've always had a strong sense of purpose, but always a very harsh inner critic, which I think we all experience on. On some level. But, yes, I mean, I've definitely asked myself, like, am I crazy? Like, what's wrong with me? Am I lovable? Like, am I worthy? Like, because I didn't have people to connect with that in that way for a really long time. And I was always, like, searching outside of myself. I was like, if I could just find the things and the money and the jobs and the people and whatever outside of me, then. Then that's when I'm really going to be happy. And then I'd get those things and I'd still feel unhappy, and I'd be like, well, this can't be the point. I can't keep, like, going in this hamster wheel the rest of my life.

To all the women that are watching us, all of our soul sisters. Yeah. There is a group of us, for sure. We were feelers, I call it feelers.

Yeah.

We feel everything. Yeah. And I think we feel more than a lot of other people. Right. They can call us empaths, they can call us whatever, but the truth is, we feel. We walk into a room and there can be a party and everyone can be dancing, but we pick up on that person's depression and the other person's, like, Right. Anxiety. And then suddenly we're in a celebrity, like, a celebration room where everyone's celebrating, but we're feeling something, and we don't know what that is.

Right.

And as a kid, especially in our generation. Right. Our parents didn't know, like, what energy is and you know, how to guide us or any of that. Right.

You know what's interesting is that my grandmother, she passed away when I was 15, and she's definitely a part of my spirit team. Like, I feel her every day of my life. She did talk about this stuff. She talked about astrology. She talked about energy, but in her own unique way. But she was definitely the only one in my family that was, like, open to these kind of content, makes you question yourself.

Like, I remember as a kid, like, I'm like, mommy, I don't know why I went to this party, but I'm feeling so. Like, I didn't even know what anxiety is. I just write that something feels bad, right? Yeah. And then after a while, I started to gaslight myself. You're like, I'm like, I'm crazy. And then I'm like, oh, my God. I have too much emotions.

Yeah.

I'm a burden.

Wow.

And I still go struggle with this feeling that I am a burden.

I relate to this so much. I always find it really amazing that so many people feel this way. Like, we feel like we're too much. St. Catherine of Siena, she was the. She's like the saint of being too much. Right? She was a woman who felt like she was too much. That's why I wear this. Because that feeling of like. Like, I don't. I often don't go to people with my problems. I. I. For a lot of my life, not anymore, I really played it small. I was like, well, if I can just be quiet and be nice. It was like the be nice thing. It was like the make everyone happy, be a people pleaser, and then you're lovable and worthy of attention and love and validation. I don't know for you, but, like, in my life, I'm like, where did that whole feeling, like, too much start? And I'm like, is this. I think it's something I was born into this life with. I think it's like a lesson for me in this lifetime of not playing small, owning my power, being a weirdo, believing in things that maybe a lot of people don't believe in. But.

But.

But following that, like, path of authenticity, like, that is the only way for me now, because, like, playing small, like, being. Thinking I'm a burden that was causing so much chaos and pain in my life. How do you. How do you deal.

Deal with that? On one hand, I know my emotions are my superpower. Like, having too much emotion is my superpower. But also on a daily basis, I feel like because I have too much emotions, I'm too much of a burden for anyone who has to deal with those emotions. And one of Mindvalley's authors, his name is Neil Strauss, I was talking to him about it, and he said to me, he said, imagine every superhero movie. Like, the superhero at the beginning, he doesn't know what he should do with his power, so he might, like, like, use it in the wrong way and damage himself in the, you know, along the way. Or he can, like, self implode or, like, use it against. Use his own power against himself, himself. But then after a while, you get a. A grip on it and you understand how to utilize that superpower. But, boy, like, do I feel like I'm a burden. Yeah, all the time. All the time. And that's, like, it's been the biggest prison in my own mind of, you know, getting out of it.

When is your birthday?

June 14th. I'm Gemini. What are you.

That's my birthday.

You're June 14th.

Are you kidding me? I swear to God.

I swear to God, I didn't know.

You're June 14th.

Can I Google you?

I swear on my life I'm June 14, 1989. And you're saying everything. You're the reason I asked. This makes me.

What's.

Am I being out of. This feels like a dream. You were saying all these things, and I was like, this feels like it's.

You're.

It felt like I was reading a script from my head, and I was like. I was like, you have to be a Gemini or, like, an air sign or something. Well, that's why when you were. Your birthday.

14. That's why I felt like. When you were talking, I'm like, wow, she's reading my beginning here. She's reading 992.

92. Okay. I'm 89. I was like, if we have the even more similar on our birth chart. Insane. Okay. My Gemini sister. I mean, this is. You needed more proof that this needed to happen. Happen.

Yeah.

That was. That's, like, one of the top five.

Yeah.

Wow.

Okay.

Well, then I definitely. I definitely relate to everything you're saying.

Thank you.

Because here's the thing.

Like, literally, as you're talking, I'm like, oh, my God. Like, I honestly, for a second, forgot about that. This is an interview. I'm like, oh, my God. I need to genuinely ask her about, like, my concerns, because it sounds like my concerns and hers are very, very similar. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. So I went through, like, many years of gaslighting myself thinking that I'm crazy because of feeling all of these energies. Until I met Faye.

Yeah.

And I'm like, mama, I don't know why I walk into this room and I feel this way, and I feel that way. And she was like, you're picking up that energy and this energy and this person's energy. Yeah. And now I'm at a point where I'm trying to differentiate which one is mine, which is the other person.

How do you do it? So true. I. It's. It's interesting, right? I mean, normally, I know when it's so, like, if I go to a event or a party or something, I have to, like, really protect my energy from, you know, before I go in. And then when I leave the place, I make sure to like ask source to remove anything that's not meant for me. But usually I know it's not mine if it comes out of nowhere because I know myself and at this point in my life I'm pretty like by nature I'm, I'm optimistic. Right. Like I see the best in things and people and I feel pretty balanced. And so I know if I'm feeling like a little erratic or extremely depressed one day or hyper self critical, I usually know that those aren't, those aren't my feelings. And ultimately like anything that's negative isn't ours anyway. Like our true nature as people is love and pure and joy. Yeah. So actually anything that's other than that isn't ours. And that's a relief because it means we don't have to attach to it. I think for so long I had this narrative that I had to attach to being too much. Like it was so subconscious like on a, on like a brain chemical level that I like there I've really been working on like re wiring those thought patterns and like catching it really early. So for me if I, I start my day, I have to start my day like really sinking into who I am. And that looks a little, and then, and then, and not getting distracted. It's so easy to get distracted. And I think when you're in the morning is a really good time to get clear on, on who you are and how you want your, you want your day to go because it's, it's like pure energy. Right. You've just woken up from sleep, don't look at your phone. Like just get, get like feel that feeling of who you are. And I swear it works. At least it works for a little while. And then like maybe if you go out in your day like things. Are you a morning person or something?

Yeah. Oh, lucky you.

You're not a morning person. No, I'm, I'm very much a morning.

Person on the night person. Like really 10pm is like the time when I. And let me tell you why, because 10pm is when most people go to sleep so I don't feel their energies anymore.

That's exactly why I like the morning. It's so, so I'm in REM sleep by 10pm I go to bed so early. But that's why I like to wake up early is because there's something so serene about like knowing people are sleeping peacefully. And I wake up around like 6 or 6:30. Wow.

So either an early rise, early bird.

Annoying. Yeah.

What time do you go to bed?

Like 9:30 or 10?

Amazing. Every night?

Well, it, you know, it depends on if I'm filming something. Things change. But if it's up to me, I'm in bed at 9:30, like asleep by 10:30. Okay. I wish I could sleep in a little later than six, but one of my dogs is ready to rock and roll.

So basically a feeler girl growing up in a religious family.

And.

And then when did the desire for acting happen?

Oh, my gosh. I remember I was maybe 7 or 8 and I was obsessed with Aladdin, and I would lock myself in my bedroom pretending. Like, embodying being Jasmine, like, made my magic carpet. Like, I just loved that for some reason, I really gravitated towards that story. And. And so that was, like, where my. My love of pretending came from. Like, I was always very. Was always, like, in the backyard by myself, like, making little, like, things out of twigs. Like, I've always just been very into playing pretend, but I guess maybe every kid is. But. And then around 9 or 10, I started taking voice lessons. And I. I think, like, the moment I realized it could be a career, maybe I was like 12 or 13. And I don't know, like, everything just aligned for me to be out here. Like, my mom moved out here with me when I was 15 because we knew a friend who connected us with an agent out here. I met my manager, who I'm still with today. I've been with her for 20 years, and things just like, the stars aligned. My mom was a travel nurse, and we did not have, like, any extra money to get by, but the only way we could afford living in California is her hospital paid our rent. Wow. So all of my mom's extra money went towards the clothes for my auditions, my acting classes. Like, my mom. It makes me. My mom just. It's so crazy to me that she just knew. She was just like, this is where Lucy needs to be. And I've been out here ever since. I've been here for 20 years, and things just started flowing. And I think when you're on your correct path, things do flow. And it doesn't mean you don't work hard and put in the time, but doors just open and I would be in the right rooms with the right people and people would think of me for jobs. And before we started this interview, I was talking about, I'm at this point in my career where it's all about the connection, connections I've made over these last 20 years. Like, it's just really amazing. Like, you know, like, being in a room with someone for an audition that I met them, like, 10 years prior. And, you know, it's just everything. It's so amazing. It's just everything has its perfect time and moment and.

Was Pretty Little Liars your real breakthrough was that when life changed dramatically.

So it definitely was the job that got people's attention. But I had done for me, like, my bit, like the. The. The moment I saw my career changing, I was 17, about to turn 18, and I booked an NBC show. It was a remake of Bionic Woman. And like, any person my age who. Who was out here when. Pilot season was still a thing, it's not really a thing anymore. You know, if you, like, book the pilot, like, you've really done it. And the show was great. And after that, I did a show for CW that only went one season, but because that got canceled, the producers of that show were like, hey, we have this new show we're developing. It's based on a really popular book series. You might be familiar with it, Pretty Little Liars. We'd love for you to be a part of it. And it was my first time that I had ever been, like, offered a job. I didn't even know that that was a thing. I was like, okay, well, like, how many auditions do I have to do? And they were like, no, we want you to be a part of it. Like, read it and see what role you gravitate towards. And initially, I wanted to play a character on the show called Hannah. Her name was Hannah, because I wanted. Because I was never the Hannah, and I wanted to be the Hannah really bad. But as fate would have it, like, of course I was an aria, because I felt like an aria in real life. And. And, you know, the rest is kind of history because that show was, I mean, beyond anything. I actually. No, I kind of knew my life was taking me to cool places, but, like, even that experience was like, wow, right? Really the perfect group of people at the perfect time in. You know, I think it aired in 2010, so it was, like a very unique show for that time. And all of it, it was just talk about the stars lining in every possible way.

Wow.

And, yeah.

So did you have to go through a lot of struggle before you had a breakthrough?

I mean, I auditioned hundreds and hundreds of times. Hundreds of times. And every actor in la, New York, anywhere in the world, they know. They know that feeling. So you only see, you know, you only see people's successes, but behind that one success, there's. Yeah, I mean, there wasn't. Like, we were always able to pay our bills. And, and I wasn't, it wasn't anything like that. But, but it was a lot of, was a lot of rejection. And I think at that age, it, it did mess with my head and I didn't feel good enough and I didn't feel pretty enough and I didn't feel talented enough. And I, even though maybe on, on the surface I was saying, like, I acted like I didn't care of how you can at 13, 14, 15 years old say that, you know, and you see the person who gets book cast for it and you're like, oh, well, I'm not that. And, and that's, and I've had to work through that. But I also know that my soul chose this, My soul chose to be in this industry. My soul chose to go through those things. Like, and, and, and I, and I knew. And I'm just happy that I have sort of made some sort of peace with that.

Right.

And, and also within this industry, you just have to know that it is an extremely chaotic roller coaster ride. There will be extremely high highs and there will be extremely low lows. And if I put my worth and identity into my career in the way that I did in the past, like, I wouldn't make it through. Like, I wouldn't have made it through. So, yeah, I mean, it's been, I'm so grateful every day that I get to do what I do for a living. I love it. I want to do it for the rest of my life. People are like, when do you want to retire? I was like, what are you talking about? I never want to retire.

How do you deal with the highs and the lows right now?

Wow. I actually read, I was listening to something earlier, it was Tom Hanks talking about the phrase this too shall pass.

Yeah.

And he was talking, do you see it? Yeah. And he was talking about it. And of course I've heard that it's in the Bible. Like I've heard about it with, with the lows, this too shall pass. But it's also with the highs. And I think it's like for me, it's really. I've had to redefine what success is to me. Because if success is the high highs, those are fleeting, you know, like they're going to come and go. Like, my driving force these days has to be something bigger than me, you know, and it can't just be like, oh, what's my next acting job going to be? Or like, what city am I traveling to next? Like, the thing that keeps Me really grounded is knowing we're all a part of something really amazing here, being on the planet. Right. And, like, that gets me really excited. And, and I think that knowing I am doing my best every day now. There was a time in my life where I didn't feel like I was doing my best personally. I was waking up, I was making choices that weren't in my best interest, and I was abandoning myself in every way possible. I don't know if you relate to that, but that's a really bad feeling.

That's, that's when you're suffering from some pain and you're desperate to see how to numb it, because if you don't know how to heal the pain, which we usually don't in our, like, you know, right. 20s or teenage years, we look for a way to numb ourselves. And that's when you really start to get dysregulated. Right. Far from yourself. Right. When did, when did your drinking start?

So, so that is how I coped for a long time. I, I mean, ultimately, I think I've always had an issue with alcohol. I never was a regular drinker.

I.

Started drinking young, early teens, but I don't think it started to become an issue within my family and relationships and job until my early 20s. But it was a very scary feeling from the beginning with alcohol. Addiction is in my family. And so if you have many people have addiction in your family, like, that is something that looms over you, right? It's like, ooh, are they going to get it? Are they not going to get it? And I did. And I think I have a lot of grace for myself now because I, I now recognize I was drinking in the way I was drinking, in the extent I was drinking. I was so trying to ease a lot of internal pain and a lot of, I guess, anger. And I, I, I was showing up in my life a certain way, and I was always wanting to do the right thing and make everyone happy. And, and I didn't allow myself to express. I didn't, I didn't have a voice. I didn't know what I wanted. I didn't know how to advocate for myself. And so when I would drink, it just, like, gave me this whole stage to be like, all the different versions of myself. You know, it's kind of the same with acting. Like, with acting, I get to be all these other people, and it's amazing. Right? And so it was the same thing with drinking where I, It's a very long story, but I was just in a lot of Pain. I was in a lot of pain. And. And then. And then I felt really guilty that I was in a lot of pain, because objectively, if you looked at my life, you know, people were like, well, how. How is she having all these issues? Why are you so unhappy? And I felt a lot of guilt over that because I was like, yeah, I do have everything you would think someone wanted. And I feel like crap. I feel bad. This can't be it. I felt empty. I felt broken. I was so disconnected. But. But before that, it was a. You know, the drinking. And it wasn't just drinking. It was a lot of other things that I avoided and numbed myself out with. Like, they work for a little bit, and that's why you get hooked. And then, you know, the addictions are sneaky. And it was a slow creep up, like extreme anxiety and depression after my drinking episodes. And, you know, I've talked about this publicly before, and it's been really amazing to talk about it because I tried to hide this part of me for a really long time. And when I made the choice to get sober three years ago, that's when my spiritual awakening started. That's when it. And it's always been there. I grew up in a religious family, great values. It's always been very, very easy for me to believe in something bigger than me. And of course, I've abandoned that for many years as. As we do, we rebel against it. And I realized that was definitely not the way I wanted to go. And. And it really started, I think, around the time I got sober of, like, of this whole. The spiritual unfolding of the last three years has just been unlike anything I've. I can't even put it into words like, I will cry. I will cry. During this interview. I just. It blew my mind that that support and guidance was always with me. Was always with me. And I didn't. It never left me.

It.

And it's always been inside of me. It's just. It's that easy to just turn on that switch, Correct?

It is that easy because it's your higher self. Your higher self. Never leave, ever.

Ever.

We leave the higher self.

Exactly.

We abandon the higher self.

Exactly. And it can be as simple as, you know, I encourage everyone to just speak out loud, speak out loud to your higher self or your guides, your angels, God, the wall. It doesn't even have to be in something you believe in, but when something happens, when you have the desire to want change because something bigger than us is listening, and the answers will come, and the Signs will arrive at your door. You just have to be open, just like be a little open minded to it. And like my, my awakening didn't happen overnight and it's constantly evolving and shifting and you know, this like leveling up process it is. I think that's what I didn't really expect about this whole journey is like how painful a spiritual awakening can be. Because what you have to do in order to read the reach these next levels of consciousness, like you have to shed the parts of you, the limiting beliefs, the people that aren't gonna not. That's another thing is like not everyone is coming with you because not everyone is ready to level up. And so especially the last year of my life has been like a lot of shedding, a lot of pain, a lot of like recognition, a lot of like brutal honesty with myself. But on the other end of that is a sense of peace I had and have been searching for my whole life. And it has nothing to do with anything outside of me. It has to do with what's here and my concept of a higher power. And there's so much relief in that because that like, oh, it's always been here. And every, you know, I've heard people say that, that, that you. That saying before of like, it's always been with you, it's always been inside of you. But until you experience it, you realize it's not this like. Cause I always thought it would be this like big booming experience and it's not. It's really quiet, it's really subtle and it's really soft and that I just have so much gratitude for every moment that's like led me to those. And I worked. The one thing I will give myself credit for is I worked really hard to get sober. And I relapsed a lot of times. I'm talking almost 15 years of trying to get sober. I mean I tried everything and I always got back up because I always knew I deserved more and I always knew I was here for something bigger. And that makes me cry because it's because I did it and I figured it out. And I know that that is not because of me alone. That's because I've been blessed with an amazing support system and forces that love me and really pulled me out of some scary situations and you know, and to be here and to, to not only be alive but, but, but now, to be on my path, on my correct path and, and feel solid in that is. It's something I really applaud myself for. And I've Talked to. I know a lot of people in recovery, and I know a lot of people who struggle in this way. And, you know, we see people die from this and it's. It kills me, you know, because we all deserve to have the resources to help us recover. And I just feel grateful that I've been blessed with those resources and can openly talk about this.

There is immense value in the fact that you're sharing this because imagine the number of us women out there, number of us humans, men and women out there that are numbing our pains through different addictions. Oh, yes. You know, addiction is an addiction. An addiction is an addiction.

Right.

But the substance might be different, right? For somebody, might be alcohol. For somebody. For somebody might be addiction to self sabotage.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Emotional addiction. Yeah, emotional addictions.

Love addiction.

Love addiction. Like social media addiction.

Like, we all have. We all have it, right? And it's, you know, we just. Just put in the blank whatever your addiction is. And it's all to ease pain.

Pain, Correct. Addiction is there to numb a pain, the pain, or ease the pain.

And there's something really beautiful in knowing that we're all experiencing that. Like, we're all here to experience pain. Because on the opposite side of pain, like, what is that?

Bliss.

Bliss. And like, at the opposite end of fear, what is that? That's love. And, like, how amazing that we get to experience. Like, we need the contrast. What I've realized is, like, you know, a lot of my life, I was in victim mode. I was like, how could I be going through this? But, like, now I'm like, I have so much gratitude for what I've been through, because those moments, holy crap. Like, that has given me so much perspective. But you know how I want to feel. I didn't give up for 15 years.

I didn't give up, but because you always knew that there is going to be light at the end of the dark tunnel of, you know, the dark.

I did have that feeling. I mean, I did have a feeling at one point in my life. I was, like, very scared, where I was like, I don't know how this ends for me. And that's a scary feeling because to not feel safe within your own body and your choices, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone. But there was, I guess, always like a little angel or two on my shoulder reminding me that it's worth it. Like, keep going, keep trying. We're here. We're supporting you. We're guiding you.

So you talked about therapy before, and. But I was curious to know what healing modalities do you personally use or.

Suggest to other people? I love this question. I've tried it all. I really have tried it all. I. I have done, like, regular talk therapy, which I do here and there, because it's necessary for me to, like, purge my thoughts and feelings about things and then let it go. And I do reiki. I don't do Reiki on people. I get it practiced on me. Sound healing. I work with intuitive energy healers, psychics, an astrologer, meditation, anything like that. And I. And these are modalities I use often and all the time. And they've really helped me. They've really helped me in this new path I'm on.

What do you do to raise your energy frequency?

Oh, for me, it's like I am someone who has to be in solitude as equal as I'm out in public. Like, my job is very extroverted, right? Like, I'm around a lot of people all the time. I have to do these events and meet people, and I love that. I love connecting with people. But the only way I'm able to do that at this point in my life, being sober and being in this new phase, is I have to be with myself and. And get quiet my mind and get really centered. And it's really kind of that simple. And it's. I. I book in my days. Like, I always start my morning really intentional, really slow. No matter where I'm at in the world, no matter what I have to do, I always wake up an hour early. I journal. I do, like, what would I call it? Like, it's like stream of consciousness writing. But sometimes some really interesting messages come through, and so you don't overthink it. You just write. And sometimes I'm like, I don't know what I'm writing. Why am I doing this? Like, I don't want to be doing this, but then something really profound will come out. I'm like, hey, where did that come from? I stay off my phone breaks. Breaks from digital detoxes. Um, being outside, being outside is really important for me. And being around animals and being around good people, being around good people that don't drain my energy, don't want anything from me. Just see me, support me, and vice versa. Like that reciprocal, those reciprocal friendships are really important to me these days.

What I love about you is that, like, the finished product that I'm seeing right now is this wonderful, glowing woman who is, you know, who you are, you know what your powers are, what your. Which areas you need to Work on you're emanating light and it's just something that you don't even need to explain. You literally walk through the door and like, I could tell, and it makes me feel safe around you and it makes me want to share my. My story with you and my heart with you. But that came with a hefty price. It came with a hefty price of years of suffering and working on yourself and going through a lot of breakdowns. Was there a point in your journey where the breakdown was so painful that you decided no matter what, you are gonna succeed in the path of sober?

Iv? Yeah, I mean, like you. I feel like I had many, many moments where I was like, it can't feel worse than this. And of course, everything's relative, right? But like, the, the suffering I was experiencing internally, I felt so deeply isolated and I fe stuck. And so I had many moments like that. But I think, I guess the biggest moment would have been the day I got sober. I, you know, nothing really crazy had happened, but I had had an experience with drinking and it was a wild night out. It was a New Year's Eve, and I woke up on New Year's Day and I said, I have to be done. I ha. I actually have got to be done. And for a number of reasons. One, I was really, really scared. I was like, just so scared of what would happen to my life. And I just, I. And then I felt this, like, this feeling where I. I knew I was here to do something big with my life and, and not that I hadn't already done. And, and by big, I don't mean like, I mean, there's, there's more to my purpose that I haven't tapped into yet. And so I. Something happened. It was like a spiritual, truly a spiritual intervention. I'm not kidding you. I felt.

I.

It sounds crazy, but like, I, I actually heard this is the last chance. Like, please, please, we've given you chances. Like, please to. You know, this might sound crazy to people, but I believe. I believe in, in, in. In people helping us, guiding us. And I already knew that, like, I had been pulled out of some crazy situations before, but. But I just had this feeling of like, okay, not only am I going to get sober and it is going to be hard and it is going to be so uncomfortable and painful, but I'm going to get through it and I'm going to talk about it and it's going to help people and I'm going to be happy. I think I just like, had this, like, Knowing that on the other end of everything that had happened and all the highs and lows in the careers and all the personal turmoil and chaos, that there was going to be a point in my life where I was gonna feel okay. And I do. And. And it's almost like I could experience who I am now. Then it was like I could see myself here now, and I was like, that's what I'm running towards.

By the way, I have heard that message when it's the final call.

Wild. No, it was the final call. It was like the light. It's like when you're at the club and the lights turn off. God was like, yeah, Lucy, nobody heard it. I've heard it myself. And. And I listened. And it doesn't mean that I haven't wanted to go back to the way I was living, because I have. I have wanted to take the easy route, but I owe it to myself. I owe it to myself. And at this point, like, I'm already fully on borderline obsessed with, like, this path I'm on now, so.

And the fact that you share it so openly and you have. You're willing to put yourself out there to help other people who are going through the same situation as you were going through, but they have shame around talking about it. This takes a lot of courage. And the fact that you're so healed within yourself that now you can come from a place of, yeah, I can talk about this.

I think it does take courage. But I also know that it's not just me. Like, there is something speaking through me. Like, it's not me. It's not me. Like, it's. It's I. You know, before I came here today, I'm always. I. I'm always saying prayers all the time. I was like, just use me today. Like, let the right words come out of my mouth. And it's like channeling, if you will. So it's like, yeah, I am Lucy the person. And, like, yeah, it does take courage, I guess, to talk about your story, but it also is bigger than me. And. And that makes it very easy for me to talk about these things when I remove myself from it. I think a lot of my life, it was like, I'm in a career where it is me, me, me. Like, what job am I gonna get? You know? And I think I'm learning that I feel happiest when it's not about that. And I think that you said something about shame. Like, shame to me is worse than anything. Like that. Like, that feeling of shame, because that Keeps us, you know, locked in a dark room and isolated and thinking that everyone is talking about you or thinking that everyone thinks you're different or, you know, damaged or broken and. But that's a lie. That is a lie. We all experience the same things.

Correct.

Whether you have experienced the things we've gone through or not. Like, we all have shame about something that's happened to us. How we've. Who we inherently are. And it's our job as people to release that shame.

Correct.

And that happens with conversation.

Like, for anyone who's listening and is going through the dark night of the soul. What would be your, like, top three pieces of advice, boy? Don't listen to me.

I don't. I think. I think for me it's asking for help, you know, I think is like, maybe the number one thing. Because I never asked. I always wanted to do things on my own. I thought I was weak. If I did, if I asked for help, like, I felt like it was unworthy, I guess. And so asking for help, a talking talk. Talk as much as possible and find the people who will listen. Because you're not too much and your feelings aren't too much. Because what happens when you don't talk is all of that junk that I call it, it's just garbage. It's. What I mean by that is like, when you repress those feelings, it junks up your life and your body. Like, you have to purge those, those feelings and emotions. Stay curious. Like, just stay curious. That was my whole thing when I got sober, is like, well, I'm just gonna, like, ask questions and be open minded and like, see where this leads me. Well, all of that has led me to, like, these conversations and a really beautiful life. What else? Dark night of the soul. Like, honestly, I. I take things way too seriously sometimes. And I think sometimes I'm like, lucy, you're missing the point. Like, have a little fun.

It's.

It. Having a dark night of the soul can actually be fun. Because. Because when. If you're actually having the dark night of the soul, that means you've like, hit your bottom. That's great.

That's great.

Guess what? It's only up from here. Like, have fun with it. And, And I don't know, find your people. Find your people and be brutally honest with yourself. But. But it, man, it's hard. And it was yours.

My rock bottom was many times, but the worst one was in 2020. Okay. During the pandemic.

Yeah.

Where I had this idea that I really wanted to have my own Talk show. And my idea of success was that. And I got that and I was miserable.

Wow.

Yeah. That was my dark night of the soul. And yeah. So to our audience, if you are having your breakdown moment, you're not that special. We all go, keep going, keep going. Because we all go through that, like, real breakdown. And for me, I literally stopped working altogether and moved to India and lived at an ashram. And yeah, I went. You know, I just wanted to understand if, like, all there is to my life is just work and survive.

Right.

And I couldn't quite like, wrap my head around the fact that God would have sent us to the earth just.

To survive, struggle and work exiren. Exactly. Yeah.

There's got to be something else, House. There must be. What is my purpose? Yeah. What is my reason to be here?

Right.

And yeah, so that was my total breakthrough that gave my breakdown, that led me to my breakthrough. And then, yeah, my breakthrough came out of like six months of not working and understanding what is my energy, what is other people's energy. There was no me. I was buried under everybody else's energy. Right. And you said something in one of your interviews. You said you're a professional people pleaser.

Yeah.

Oh, my God, tell me about that.

Do you relate?

Oh, I didn't even know where was me. Like, I was buried under piles of other people's like, energies and expectations and love me, love me, love me. Like, you know, going from one place to another. Please love me, please love me, please love me. And it's so interesting because if you're seeking for love and approval and validation on the outside, there is no amount.

No, it'll never be enough.

Not enough.

It'll never be enough. It'll always be another mountain to climb. It'll always be another zero in your bank account. It will always be another person. Like, for me, I think a lot of my self worth, I was feeling it. I just wanted to be loved romantically. And I, I thought that, like, if I was with the right partner, that they would, they would fix me and I would. God, I'd finally be whole and then I'd be happy and then I'd be well on my way to my farm and my animals and babies and it's just not how it works. You know, it's not how it works because if I ended up with someone at a different phase in my life, that's not my person, because I know my person, wherever he is, I'm now a whole. I'm no whole. Like, I, I, I feel very self Sufficient. And I don't mean in like a practical, materialistic way. Like, I know what I want. I know how to speak up for myself. I know what I deserve. So I know when to walk away from people not meant for me. And I think that that has been one of my biggest lessons is, is. Is not needing people to fill some void within myself. And that. And even. Not romantically, even within, you know, career stuff and whatever career you're in. Like, we all just think the job is gonna. The job is gonna fix it.

The job that's gonna fix me, it's the lover that's gonna fix me, it's the marriage, it's the kid, It's.

Yeah.

Something on the outside that's going to fix me, which will never happen.

And what's so empowering is you can get all those things, and we should get all those things and enjoy them then. Now you can enjoy them. Because if they go away, you're still okay.

That's correct.

Because you're, You're. You're already whole.

Correct. Once you're walking on your own two feet, it's nice to have companionship. Yeah. But as long as you're looking for somebody else to be your backbone, your cornerstone, then, you know, it's always like a rocky up and down. Because if they're, you know, you're swaying, you're shaking from side to side depending on whether or not they're going to be there for you. Yeah. There is something about feminism and the female empowerment movement, which I, I'm really passionate about, and I feel like my main purpose on this earth is to be a part of the female empowerment movement.

You are.

Empower other women. But I feel like a lot of us women confused empowerment with victimhood. Meaning that we went into. Instead of waking up to our power, we went into blame that we were taken advantage of. We were a victim. Like, we were used. We were abused.

Right. Which. That's actually disempowering.

Right, it is disempowering. But how should a woman. And honestly, I think every woman on this planet has gone through some level of abuse or victimhood or taking advantage, being taken advantage of.

Yes.

But if anything, it's more on us than them.

Absolutely.

We put ourselves in a situation where we gave our own power away, and therefore, you know, we're not empowered.

Right.

And how can. If a woman is listening to us and she's been taken advantage of and she feels like a victim and she feels so much rage about the situation, what is your advice for that woman?

Oh, man. I mean, first of all, you are. You are allowed to feel those feelings of rage, of sadness, of confusion, of anger. You have to. You have to experience those feelings. But I think, you know, I, I can't speak for anyone else. I can just speak for me. But when I've been taken advantage of in any capacity, I've had to accept what has happened. I think accepting what has happened and what matters most is what you do after an event like that, your reaction to something. And there's something really amazing happens when you are accountable for your life and your choices and the things that have happened. You know, I look at it from a different lens because I'm a spiritual person, and I believe, like, my soul chose for certain things to happen for me so I could evolve and grow and. But not everyone has that lens. So I'm trying to, like, talk about it from a more grounded sense. I think it's. It's accountability, accepting boundaries. It's okay to be angry. I think anger is powerful. I used to think the anger was horrible. I thought that if I saw an angry woman, like, what's wrong with them? Lock them away. You know, now I'm like, I was probably burnt at the stake as a witch because of, you know, all of the anger that I had. And, and, and now I can access that anger. So I think that the anger thing is really important. But I'm always careful to give advice because I know that every situation and person is. It's uniquely theirs. But, but just for me, when I've been in situations where I was. How do I say it? Taken advantage of, and also taken advantage of when I couldn't, when I don't really have the memories of what happened, I think the way I've gotten my power back, because it's ultimately not about the other person. And I think it really is just like accepting the cards you've been dealt with and seeing the lesson in it. What have I gained from this? How can I take this and help someone else? How can I take this and, and not be a victim? I mean, because I think that that is where people get stuck is like. And bad things happen to people all day, every day, right? And we can all get stuck in pointing the finger and, and, and, and, and we, and I, I haven't in my life, like, created an identity around being a victim. And I felt so small. And we don't deserve to feel small. We deserve to be fully in our power. And to be fully in your power, you have to accept things as they are. And. And that's the best feeling in the world to. To not run away from the truth, you know, that's pretty cool.

Wow. And to see the lesson in every incident.

Absolutely. There is. It's.

It's the.

It's this concept of, like, life is happening for me, not to me. Yeah. Oh, I have chills. I love talking about that. Like, life is happening for me, all of us.

Yeah. So, guys, no matter what you're going through at this very moment, as hard as it may sound, remember that life is happening for you, not to you. And that very bad incident that is. That has just happened to you. There was a lesson that you needed to learn and graduate and go to the next level. And on the other side of this lesson, there's bliss and there's peace. There's freedom. So, you know, we're a big fan of yours at Mindvalley. In Mindvalley, we are dedicated to help 1 billion people worldwide. So far, we are at 25 million. 25 million are taking our personal development courses. Yes. And we have from, you know, self development, knowing yourself, spirituality, tapping into your higher self. I want to deeply, deeply thank you on behalf of myself and a lot of other women out there and mindvalley and the 25 million subscribers we have. I want to thank you for using your platform to share your truth and for living by example by encouraging us to live in our truth, truths and to not be shameful about our flaws or things that we had to go through. And just thank you.

Oh, I know what it.

I know how hard it is to get to a place where you are willing to share your truth with the world.

Yeah. Well, thank you for having me. Are you kidding? This was appreciated. So beautiful. And. And yeah, once again, anyone who's listening, like, there is so much power in just owning your story. I promise you. Like, my fear when I would talk about my story is that people would be, like, really scared of me and be like, oh, that's really, like, really freaks me out. But there is so much joy and power in just owning every single thing that's brought you to the place you're at in your life. So this is so great. Thank you. Thank you so much.