Chris Freeman-The Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing-Consistency, Processes and Technology

Welcome to the Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing hosted by Wayne Courageous iii. A place where active and passive investors come to hear the good, bad and ugly of real estate investing. Our guests consist of experienced operators and investors who want others to succeed by sharing their stories. If you're looking to syndicate deals or grow your wealth passively in real estate, you've come to the right show. It's now time to sit back, take mental notes and enjoy next episode of the Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing.

Welcome to the Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing. I'm your host, Wayne Courageous. For our next episode, we're excited to have Chris Freeman with High Tech Freedom. Chris is an experienced real estate investor with $30 million in assets under management. His 20 years of real estate investment has focused exclusively on multifamily apartment buildings that can generate immediate cash flow. Over 26 years, he has been fortunate to experience financial success through high tech sales and sales leadership. Working with companies like Juniper Networks, Sienna, Lucent and Citrix, he has learned how to achieve a high level performance in sales while redeploying a portion of his commissions into cash flowing, generating real estate. Through a consistent process over time, Chris has created enough passive income to replace his high tech sales income. This success has inspired Chris to create high tech Freedom Capital and help his peers achieve their own personal success. Welcome to our show, Chris.

Yeah, Wayne. Hey, thank you for having me.

And I'm excited to dig in and learn. I know we're part of the raised Masters group, so excited to see you in a couple of weeks. But let's dig into real estate. How'd you get started? What markets? Just whatever you want to share with us about you and your real estate team.

Yeah, sure. So I actually started way back in 1999 when I bought my first duplex and you know, I moved into half of it and then I rented out the other half. And I really wasn't intentionally thinking about some big multifamily, you know, real estate plan. I just figured it made sense to live in a duplex and have somebody pay my mortgage. And you know, I was at this, at that time I was working in high tech sales and it felt like I was, I was making what, you know, good money at the time. I didn't really have a perspective of what good money was, but it felt like I was doing well and I was investing a lot of my money in the stock market and pretty imbalanced with my portfolio. Just invested in what I knew, which was tech stock, you know, right about that time, so 2000, if you're familiar with history. Right. So the dot com bubble burst and I had my stock portfolio cratered, my 401k cratered and lost a lot of that value. And at the same time, I had just met really what would become, you know, a future partner of mine, 30 years older than me, and he'd been very successful in multifamily real estate locally here in Portland, Oregon. And it was really fascinating because while, well, I was, you know, feeling sorry for myself after losing all this money, I was watching him continue to bring in serious cash while being fully retired. And it was all just cash flow from his apartment buildings. And at the same time, he had many of his friends that were all retired, living off fixed income or living off their stock portfolio. It was just interesting to watch them back off doing all the things that they love to do, going on international trips, going out to eat, going to the college football games. And so really at that point I, I felt a little bit burned, a little bit like I couldn't control my investments with the market. So I decided to focus kind of moving forward, just shifting my investment into real estate and just smaller multi family units here in the Portland, Oregon market. So that's really how I got my start.

So that mentor that you connected with, how did you find him and how did you get to convince him to take you on as sort of this mentee relationship?

Yeah, well, sort of, sort of. Well, he was my father in law, so I had a relationship there. But what was interesting was he had lots of kids, lots of kids had husbands and wives, grandkids. They all wanted to do real estate with them. And he was like, no, no, no and no. But there was something about me. You know, we never looked at each other as father and son or father in law and son in law relationships. It was businessman to businessman. And for him, and I think regardless of whether he was my father in law, what he was kind of juiced on was, you know, he liked to stay involved. He liked, you know, he was retired, but he wanted to keep his mind sharp and wanted to pass along some of his knowledge and wanted to pass it along to somebody that would go run with it versus be dependent on him for success. And so I kind of fueled, kind of kicking his kind of real estate career into kind of the next phase. And you know, then I obviously benefited, you know, learning from him and having a little bit of what I felt like was a cushion if there wasn't something that I understood I had somebody I could go to.

Yeah, I love that it's hard to find a mentor if you're not. If it's not through a professional program where you're paying, or through a family or a close friend, ask that question. Because it's. Sometimes it is hard to find those mentors. You know, people post on Facebook and such. I would like looking for a mentor, but time is so valuable. So get to getting someone to help you and take you, take you on is awesome. So your father in law. That's, that's incredible. So let's go back to the duplex days. I love this because I was actually just talking to my niece about it over the past weekend and talking to her about looking at buying a duplex. Was the idea to get a duplex to offset that mortgage or why didn't you go out and buy a single family? What was the initial itch to get into this?

Oh, no, I owned a single family, so I left the single family and it was sort of an interesting opportunity. Right. So I was watching my friends who were all tech salespeople doing really well, and we had all bought our first house, you know, as single people, and they were all starting to now maybe get engaged, get married, move up to that next bigger house. And here I am, I'm like moving into this 1950s brick duplex. And it felt like I was stepping down. And I think initially I remember when my friends were helping me move into it, I felt, I don't know, a little embarrassed. But it didn't take me long to kind of shift my thinking that, hey, you know, they're overextending themselves and I'm paying my mortgage with my renter. Right?

Yeah, it's, it's powerful. Yeah, that's, it's a great way to get started, especially in areas. And in this case, I'm saying to my niece, like, really expensive markets. If you're able to find, you know, these two, three unit homes and able to live in one, you know, you're able to drastically reduce that mortgage payment, even potentially eliminate, in some cases, mortgage payment. So pretty powerful, especially when you're starting out and able to live in that 50s type home before having to, you know, get more space and maybe something a little nicer, newer. But let's so fast forward a little bit after that. So you've been, you know, with your sales, your commissions, I mean, how did that all work? I mean, you took your commissions and then you, you saved and you put 20%, 30% down on a home in additional duplexes, or did you go Skip right into the multifamily with your father in law. How did that all work with.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's a good question. So I was in the duplex and I was like, okay, well this, this has piqued my, my interest now. This is, you know, I like this. And so I wanted to go do something bigger and so I would ask my father in law about it. And so we were poking around, looking in the paper back in the day and there wasn't really a, you know, Craigslist or an Internet to look at. And so we found a fiveplex. No, a fourplex. Sorry, found a fourplex. And he and I talked about it and you know, he liked it and I liked it. And you know, at that time my attitude was, well, if he likes it, it's good enough for me. And he said, well, you want to just partner on it? And it was very informal. And I said, sure, let's go do it. And so I'd been setting aside for my commission dollars, we went and jumped and jumped in and bought it. And I remember thinking at the time, I am big time now. I just doubled my assets from two units to four units. But that was really a start of a journey. And one of the things that I learned in the process working with him was with that fourplex, I tried to find things that I could do that would add value to him. The things that maybe he didn't like to do or that he wasn't good at or didn't enjoy. I just grabbed onto those and tried to run with it and even maybe over deliver or exceed his expectations when I did something. And then, you know, after that, that really kind of, you know, opened both our eyes up to well, let's just go do it again. And so then what happened was I sold my duplex. We found a 15 unit building. It was essentially, it was in the newspapers off market, it was just the seller selling it direct. And so I sold my duplex in 1031 that into 15 unit building and then that ended up being a great cash flowing asset that fueled a bunch of other purchases over 20 years.

Yeah, well, a couple things there. Even though your father in law, you built a team, you know, you were able to offer things that he didn't want to do or time or whatever. And you were able to, he was able to leverage your experience and your time and you're able to leverage, you know, the things that he was able to bring to the table, obviously with this experience and maybe a stronger financial base to sign on the loan, etc. But that team, it goes through, rather you're doing a three, four unit or 15 unit or 200 plus, you know, multifamily or office deal. That team is, is extremely important. And the other thing that I love that you said that I just want to hit on is you worked really hard to, to find ways to take things off his plate and really add a lot of value so that you could get onto that next deal. And what I'm seeing is, is in, you know, just, in just life in general, whether it's football or anything, the more you're able to add to that team and that sport, people want to do business with you, they want to play with you, you know, and that mindset. So love that. And so with your background in technology and all the platforms and such that you've, you've worked with, how has that, how are the technology platforms and your background in the tech and sales world helped you to gain advantage in the real estate sector and to scale your business?

Yeah, you know, I, I would say it's actually taught me to, to be more cautious of some of the technology because, you know, being in this space, you know, I'm, I, I can be guilty of the shiny object syndrome. You know, it's like, oh, there's a cool tool. Let me go try that out. But what I've learned over time is, man, every one of those tools is everything is shifted to a subscription model, and there is a subscription and a tool out there to solve every problem. And they all start off with a very low entry point. But then, oh, I want that feature or I need to really be able to do that. It starts to creep up, and if you're not careful, that operational cost can start to get a little bit out of control. And in some cases, it can overcomplicate things. And so I've tried to keep it as simple as possible, really leveraging some of the basics. Live on Zoom, live on heavily leveraged Dropbox, Google Drive. Starting to explore, you know, kind of a process management tool like, like Usana or one other tool, you know, just to kind of get out of the email process a little bit.

Yeah. More for your project management piece with.

The, yeah, just kind of the workflow, you know, like, look, looking at a deal, post deal, the asset management of the deal, you know, even on, like my podcast, just so all the steps in the processes so, you know, make it consistent. And one of the things that we've been working pretty hard on is just checklisting everything. Right. So it's you don't have to think about it. We just go do it. You know, it's the same way every time. And that consistency, you know, that drives efficiency.

And then when you're focusing on raising capital and growing, are you focusing as your focus as a business with high tech freedom, focused on the high tech sales entrepreneurs out there? Is that sort of your avatar that you're focusing on or.

Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So what happened was, so I've had a brand out there for a long time and it was raising some capital. But what I was noticing is that most of my network, if you go to LinkedIn, I don't know, 80, I'm just kind of throwing out a number. But let's say 80% of my network is technology people and 80% of those are probably salespeople. And so the network that I'm naturally touching is that high tech salesperson. And, you know, and I look at my own career and what it's done for me, you know, high tech sales is a space where a person can go out and the reason they go into the space is they can, there's an opportunity for significant upside. You put in the work, you bust your butt, you can make some really good commissions. And they're not doing the job because they absolutely love to be in tech sales. I mean, it's interesting, but they're doing it because that income can fuel some dream or some freedom that they're looking to achieve. The challenge that I've seen with a number of tech salespeople and this could be the same, this could be the same for maybe a doctor, dentist, whatever, but in the high tech space, I've seen people where, you know, you continue to make more money and you continue to creep up your lifestyle. And, you know, over time, when it comes time to retire, you know, your 401k is not going to be able to maintain that same level of lifestyle that you've built up over time. And so I've been very passionate about creating that ability to, you know, from a tech salesperson, you first. You know, I've got this podcast that I started called High Tech Freedom. And the idea there is bring in other high successful tech salespeople so that you can learn from the best in order to earn like the best. And then, you know, create. How do you create that, that additional income stream over time by investing in assets that can generate cash flow above and beyond your 401k or stock or whatever the company's giving you. And so that's, that's really the Premise behind the brand. Yeah.

Were you doing that before you had joined Raise Masters and focusing on that avatar perfect customer.

The. I think there might have been an inkling of an idea but it definitely got accelerated when you know, talking to Hunter and, and, and I think what really caught my attention and he said this. So this isn't an original quote for me but. Right. I'll never be, you know, the Grant Cardone. You know, it's going to be hard. I shouldn't sell myself, sell myself short. But it's going to be hard to be seen or be noticed and to be able to offer the value that in such a giant sea. But how do you shrink that sea to maybe a lake or a pond so you can be a bigger fish or maybe the only fish in that pond. And you know, so that, that resonated with me and it gives me an opportunity to be seen and then offer value to the people that I'm, that I'm closest to or more similar to.

Yeah, I asked that because it wasn't something that I had really thought about. You know, a lot of my outreach and education to investors in general obviously are to my, to my network, but not really focused on a specific. Like your high tech sales people. And I think it's a, it's a great lesson and a great thing for those that are listening is think of it like the blue oceans. Right. Or you know, when there's a lot of competition, there's a lot of sharks in the water. Just using that imagery. There's a lot of blood in the water and going and finding opportunities where the seas are bluer. You know, you're just, you're, you're not having to compete as much, but you're also able to educate and talk the same language to those investors that you, that you have relationships or maybe have common interests and experiences in your case. So it's a great, you know, those that are listening, looking to raise capital, you know, look at, look at that. Instead of the wide net of, you know, trying to market to, you know, a wide cast of different groups, you know, find that, that niche. So good on you for doing that even before this because I, it's not something I was doing. I definitely had a wide.

Thank you.

Much wider net. So shifting a little bit on, on your experience in buying property. I mean you've got a incredible long term career at doing this. Have you found it more difficult in today's environment to buy properties than you did, say 20 years ago?

Yeah. That's interesting.

Or even five, 10 years ago. It doesn't have to go that far back.

But yeah.

Are you just seeing that it's just a little bit more challenging over the last couple years, Covid or not?

I think on one hand a little bit, you know, just because it's more competitive. But on the other hand, I would much rather have today's. Well, yeah, I would. I think what's better about it today is the availability of the information and the access to it. And that not only helps the deal sponsor, but even the passive investor being able to get the information just as easily as the people putting together the deal versus 10 years ago, you to really go hustle to get the information. And granted that might give some people a leg up, but if I'm a passive investor, the reality of them being able to go get that information is pretty low. They're going to depend pretty heavily on the relationship with that sponsor.

Yeah, it's great, great point. You know, most recently I was looking at a deal that in an area that I wasn't too familiar with, but just being able to do some Google search and look at some flood zones and, and really see, see the market from a standpoint of just easy Googling in a way. It's. You really can find out a lot, a lot faster than what, you know, even, I don't know, 15 years ago when I was buying properties, it was just, you know, times have changed so much.

I would dread going to the city office and having to pull the microfiche out and, you know, find my property or find old permits. It was just, you know, two hours of my day.

Are you using the virtual assistants or team members to help manage your time while growing your portfolio or how's your staff? Have you managed your team?

Yeah, so I. So on my personal assets, I've got two great local property managers and those assets are all stabilized. So, you know, mostly, you know, check in with them on a monthly basis and you know, go through some of the basics, look at any work orders as they come in, if there's anything significant. So that's all pretty stabilized. And then on the kind of the larger front, on the syndication front, two of my main team members, we've got a pretty good division of focus. You know, we're all going to raise capital and we're all going to step in and you know, look at the underwriting. But each of us has sort of a point focus and so that distributes some of the workload. Even like now I've got, you know, one of my partners, she's Taking care of all the stuff at the bank, getting the accounts open, taking care of all of that while I'm taking care of the investor portal, getting subscription documents, going through the whole E sign process and making sure all the fields are correctly tagged. So we're getting a good division of labor there. And then I did get a VA and it's been fantastic. I mean she's, she's also really sharp. I'm so fortunate to have her shout out to Joanna. She is like with my podcast, she's just done a tremendous amount of work to help me offload a lot of the steps, the communication, kind of organizing my calendar, doing some research for me and then on some of the real estate and asset front. She is also helping me pull together some of the metrics. So there's lots of metrics that I want to watch to see. Hey, how am I doing? How are we doing? Are we growing, maybe growing our lists? Are we, how are the expenses doing? And so she'll, she'll provide me report every Friday that captures things like meetings that I've had, investor calls, kind of my metrics around all the things I want to look for and are those up week over week, down week over week so I can just take a quick look and you know, get a quick check on the health of the business.

Yeah, having a great virtual assistant is incredible. I've tried to do it and I think I've, I don't know, it takes a lot of time to train and educate somebody that has no, you know, they don't know your. The real estate business and such as well. And so it's, it's always been very more in some ways time more time consuming. But one thing that I've learned recently is like using, going back to technology loom where I'm showing on the computer how to do something and I can talk through it and it records and then I can send that recording to a va. So. So one of the things I'm looking at doing and over the next month or two is going back out there and getting that virtual assistant or somebody to help do the things that you're talking about because I think it's so important. Did you find it through upwork or like what. How did you go about finding that? Right. Yeah, right. Joanna sounds like, sounds like.

Yeah. So I was looking at upwork and I put an ad out there and I ended up going through a company called VA Hub. So she's out of the Philippines and they, this most. They just do Philippines based VAs and it's probably, I don't know, let's say a dollar more than what you might get out of upwork. But they set up the interviews, they coach them up a little bit, they get them a little bit of training. If there's some common things, you know, common tools they see a lot of people asking for. And so, yeah, you know, so they presented me three resumes and went through and interviewed each, all three of them. And just, it just happened that the first one out of the gate was what I thought was the best one.

Yeah, I love that. I mean, just getting back five, ten hours a year of your week, I'm sure, or maybe more. I don't know how long you need, but that's something that's, that's great. So I'll put that, that link on our show notes too, if that work for va. You said VA Hub.

VA Hub.

Yeah, yeah, that's great. So going back a little bit on prior to us, talking a little bit about the VAs, but, you know, some of your routine habits. How do you stay focused, stay motivated in these good and bad times of real estate investing? You know, there's this, it's not always glamour and great things. So, you know, how do you, how do you keep motivated and what, what keeps you going every day?

Yeah, well, you know, I definitely am. I've always been long term focused. So I have, you know, I've got big goals and big dreams and when I first started the real estate journey, I had this goal. And this is before I knew that there was different ways to do real estate, that I wanted us, the family, to have 300 units that were all paid off and that would then generate all the cash flow that we ever needed to do whatever we wanted, take care of the kids and give back in any way that we, you know, we could, you know, that we were interested in. So that really hasn't changed. But for me it's really about, you know, I don't get too caught up in worrying about the future or thinking too much about the past. I just, you know, I like, I like to do the work and I love the journey of it. And that's really what I try to focus on. So I am really busy. And so what I do is I start, you know, I have annual goals, but really it comes down to what's the plan for the quarter, what's the plan for the month and what's the plan for the week? You know, I map out some big rocks. If you've ever read the book Traction, they Talk about this idea of rocks. And then it really, I mean, the, when the rubber hits the road, it comes down to the weekly and daily planning. And so I'm really intentional. Every morning I get up, got a pretty, pretty rigid routine, walk the dog, get my coffee, do some reading, do some journaling, and then I sit down and I've got a paper planner and kind of map it up with my electronic calendar. And every day I decide, all right, what are the big three things that I need to get done that day? And they should roughly map to the big three things I need to get done for the week. Not always. And I try to always make sure one of those is revenue generating. Is a revenue generating activity, you know, and then I jot down some of the other to dos and kind of go back and look and see what I missed from the prior day, go through my schedule. And when I can get those three things done for the day, I, you know, usually they're big or they're important and they're not goals, they're just big paths. I feel great. And, you know, if moved the ball just a little bit forward that day, that's really all we can do.

Yeah, I had a, had a boss who still is, you know, like a mentor to me in the real estate business. And you know, at the end of the day he always say, you know, did you move the business forward today? You know, and it. What does that mean? You know, what is, how much does that mean moving the business forward? There's no right or wrong answer, but did. Were you able to knock off some of those things that, you know, need to get done to move the business?

When I think what's key is, you know, for any professional, it's not hard to be busy, but it's really easy to be busy doing stuff that just doesn't matter. It's not, it's gonna, you're gonna feel good because you're busy. But did you really move the ball forward? And I think, you know, the way, you know, whether you did or didn't is, hey, how does that align? How does that one task align to the bigger monthly, quarterly or annual objective or goal that you're working towards? Maybe it's finding the next deal or maybe it's, you know, bringing on some new investor relationships, or maybe it's setting up a new brand. Whatever it is, you know, there's all kinds of subtasks and if they're moving it towards that big goal. Yeah, 100. Yeah.

So shifting a little bit, you're based out of Portland. Right. How are you finding and partnering with other investors in other markets? How are you building those relationships? One, and then two, knowing when it's good to partner and team up with those people? Because I assume not all your investments and focuses in Portland area, probably outside that area to more landlord friendly states, et cetera. So can you talk us through how are you building those relationships and sourcing deals to grow your portfolio?

Yeah, you bet. So I have two primary partners, we each have our own brand, but we're kind of slowly building structures around the three of us in terms of process and building out the team and kind of what each of us wants to focus on. And one's in New York, one's in Kansas City. And then one of my partners, he's primarily focused on the deal flow and so he's been working up his process around cause he's got a good healthy, he's been doing this for a while. He's a real estate coach and he's retired from his engineering job. And so he really has created a second career which I think is just so impressive because of the energy and excitement he has with it. But he's got good deal flow and kind of the developing fourth partner, they, they're based in the Carolinas and they've started to build out some young, hungry, kind of, I don't know, early career people, maybe college graduates that have just been really hustling and kind of building relationships in local markets, helping him extend his reach. He can't be talking to the broker every day, but he's using them as a proxy to continue those relationships. And as a result there's a track record there of executing on deals. And so they're getting a pretty good healthy flow of off market deals from brokers because of the history. And so it's really my one partner is the tip of the spear on the deal flow side.

So. And that's the one out of New York. Are y' all sourcing any deals up in the Northeast or is it primarily west coast, south region?

No, no, we're focused really in four markets. North, South Carolina, Georgia and Florida. We would look elsewhere but those four markets we have really solid existing relationships, proven track record with great property managers and we really feel that kind of in the current cycle of the, of the industry it's great if you get a good deal and you've under underwrote it correctly. But you know the, the operation piece is going to be key and we think that that is also going to make or break or Differentiate us over some of the other sponsors out there. Yeah.

So if you don't mind sharing some. An example of a, or more of challenging times that you've experienced when operating your properties. How'd you, how did you overcome it and you know, get through it?

Well, in fact, I think I just had one recently. I think we were scheduled to do this call back before Thanksgiving.

That's right, we were.

And the day of the call. So tell a quick story. So have a smaller bill. It's 22 unit asset and I'm in contract to close on the Monday before Thanksgiving. Well, Saturday you and I were going to record this episode and I get a hysterical call from an on site maintenance person there and it's his wife and all I heard her say was fire. Like, oh no. So short story is we had a fire at the property and you know, this is Saturday, day and a half before I'm going to close on Monday. And I just remember driving out there, you know, feeling, you know, looking at the property and feeling a little bit sorry for myself. You know, it's a big plan for that capital is there. I will, you know, oh, well. And so that was a challenge. But you know, one of the things that I've learned with any challenge is, you know, go ahead and feel sorry for yourself for a few minutes, maybe give it, give it a day, whatever. But wake up the next day and just start working. Right. What is that? Next thing I need to do to move forward. Start making your list. Pull out a sheet of binder paper and just start jotting down all the to dos and just start working them. And you know, then you don't really have time to feel sorry for yourself and you know, and it all works out. It's not our first fire. I mean if you've owned property long enough, you'll have one and you'll. No, you know, there's a process. So wasn't too worried about that piece. Fast forward. We're still in contract to close. It's been a very complicated transaction. Once we kind of figure out what I need to pay out for the work that's already been done, we're going to sign the claim to the buyer. He's got a pretty good, he's done a lot of rehab work. So he's going to take his construction arm and continue with the repair of the building and you know, we'll transfer what's left from the current dollars that have been received as a credit to them. So in a way he'll end up getting a Better building once it's all said and done, just a little bit delayed in the process.

Right. Yeah. The challenging times, especially feeling sorry for, I mean it's such an emotional roller coaster. And I say emotional because it truly is. I mean you put your time and so much effort and especially getting so close to closing, you're like, you're so close. But no, I'm glad that it's worked out and thanks for, thanks for sharing that. I think so many times we, you know, real estate in general, it, it all looks good and you know, rents, rents are coming in and all but at the end of the day, life happens and, and things can change. I mean in Texas we had the, the massive freeze.

Oh yeah, I remember that.

And we're not made to have major long periods of time of, you know, almost five degree weather, you know, multiple days. It was insane. So busted a lot of pipes, a lot of flooding and, and then some markets, coastal markets, you got hurricanes and floods, et cetera. So anything can happen in this thing we call real estate. But we, but just how do you get through it and staying positive and going through it. So appreciate you, you sharing that. One more question before we start closing up. But you know, what are some of the overlooked aspects to real estate investing that you know people out there making some investment mistakes or things that, you know, they can really, I don't know, do better on or think of and how to make better decisions and in analyzing or, you know, buying properties.

Yeah, I think it's definitely letting emotions get in the way. I think getting look at, I'm guilty of this but you know, you start to look at a deal and you're getting excited about it and you start thinking of ways to make it work and you really have to keep the emotions out of it. And it's not a new business, it's a numbers game. Math works. And so making sure that you know, you're not changing the numbers or changing the assumptions, more important just to make it fit. And then the other thing I'd say is, you know, if you're newer, maybe by yourself, maybe it's a smaller asset. If you're not sure, there's. It may, it may be new to you, but it's not new to somebody else. All anything you're going to run into has been experienced by somebody else. And it's such a broad, diverse. There's so many people in the industry you could call up. If you don't know who to call up, call up me, call up Wayne, call a broker, I Mean, a broker would be happy to point you over to another investor to let you bounce an idea off of. I mean, that's what they do. I mean, to them, that's value add, and that that's the quickest way to get help if you're. If you're just not sure.

Yeah, it's a small network community world. I mean, whether it's through meetups or bigger pockets or Facebook real estate groups, people are out there wanting to help and add value because likely they. They asked for that help, you know, initially on too. So. So great points. And I also liked what you said, too, Chris, about the emotional aspect of finding that property and then underwriting it to a point where sometimes it becomes a little bit more aggressive than what we initially would have done just to try to make the deal work. And when that happens, and it. I'm guilty of it, you know, it's that fortunately, I realize it to a point where, okay, I'm not doing a letter of intent, but it gets to a point where you try to make the deals like, how do you make this work? Because you want that. Want to deal so bad, and then. But then the deal isn't a deal after that. Right. You're overpaying or you're doing something that's potentially risky. So it's great advice and appreciate you sharing that. So as we sort of wrap up, you know, I always ask this to our guests, but, you know, what are. What are proudest moments you've had in real estate? Investing? In your career?

Yeah, you know, I struggle with that a little bit because I think I mentioned before, I don't spend a lot of time thinking about the past. I just try to stay in the moment. And so usually it's the next thing I've accomplished is the next big thing or the next most memorable thing. But I will say right now, I mean, I am really excited and really proud of the podcast that I've launched. Although it's not directly focused on real estate, you know, a component of it is, you know, how do you invest those commission dollars to generate that cash flow? So it does come up a little bit. And so I'm really proud of that. And, you know, it was a lot of hard work and a lot of evening hours and weekend hours. And so it's exciting to see that now that it's out, I think I've had a lot of personal satisfaction from people that I haven't talked to in a long time. Just unsolicited notes to me saying, hey, I heard it Sounded great. You sounded great. Well put together, very professional. So that felt good. Really proud of that. Yeah.

Love that. We'll put it in our show notes as well. But anything else you'd like to share on this show or about your company, about your podcast and how can listeners find you?

Well, I would say that, you know, High Tech Freedom, although it's a podcast for tech salespeople, everybody needs to learn to sell. And no matter what your job is, your sell, whether it's internal, external, so.

You know, check it out.

You might pick up a nugget. All you need is one good nugget to generate an improvement in your activities. So I'd say check it out. If they want to reach out to me, you could go to our website, hightechfreedom.com and you can contact us there. Sign up for our newsletter, download our ebook, or you can hit me up on LinkedIn. And I'm just Chris Freeman on LinkedIn. Perfect.

Well, Chris, thank you for being on the show. And it sounds like I get to meet you in LA in a couple of weeks. So excited for that.

Yeah, looking forward to it.

Absolutely. Well, if I can do anything for you, let me know. But thanks for being on our show.

Thank you, Wayne.

That's all for this episode. We hope you subscribe, share and leave a review of the show. For more information about passively investing in multifamily apartments, check out Wayne's free ebook by going to creipartners.com eBook. Also, follow us on Facebook by searching Creipartners. This was the Untold Stories.