Kevin Garden-The Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing-Creating Streams of Income Through Cable

Welcome to the Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing, hosted by Wayne Courageous iii, a place where active and passive investors come to hear the good, bad and ugly of real estate investing. Our guests consist of experienced operators and investors who want others to succeed by sharing their stories. If you're looking to syndicate deals or grow your wealth passively in real estate, you've come to the right show. It's now time to sit back, take mental notes and enjoy next episode of the Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing.

Welcome to the Untold Stories of Real Estate Investing. I'm your host, Wayne Courageous. Today I'm excited to connect with Kevin Gardner, president of Multifamily Utility Solutions. Kevin spent nearly 20 years with Comcast and was responsible for managing the team that negotiated agreements with multifamily property owners for multifamily property owners across the country and their management companies. Kevin's experience has resulted in favorable contract terms and improved net operating income. In 2021, multifamily utility solutions clients increased their NOI by more than $4 million, resulting in an increase in asset value over $100 million. Welcome to our show, Kevin.

Thanks, Wayne. Thanks for having me. I'm glad we could finally connect.

I know it was for the listeners out there. We've been trying to connect for probably two months and mostly it's my fault. So Kevin's been extremely gracious and flexible and. And here we are sort of late evening having this conversation. So super excited. And it's a little different than our other typical shows because we're typically talking with operators or passive investors, real estate owners, in this case, we're going to really dig in on miscellaneous income that isn't just base rent and parking, etc. We're going to look at contract revenue through cable and Internet contracts and others. So really super excited to have this conversation because I'm going to learn a lot. I always say it's selfish because I dig in and ask questions to learn and everybody for sure gets the benefit from that. So thanks for your time. So teed us up a little bit about what we're going to be talking about. But how did you get started in this business and then you sort of found this niche based on your experience at Comcast? Talk to us about, you know, that cycle of how that all came about.

Yeah. So when I left college and I had the opportunity, I had two job offers. One was to sell cable TV door to door. The other was to sell replacement windows. And I thought cable TV sounded a whole lot sexier than replacement windows. Plus you got free cable TV at that time. And so I went that route and I sold door to door for a couple of years. And this kind of tells you a little bit about me, right? I accepted the job in December in Fort Wayne, Indiana. So it was pretty cold out and got dark early. So it wasn't necessarily the best time of year to do that. But I had a great career with Comcast. I enjoyed being there. I really learned literally from the ground up. I mean, that was like the most entry level position I could have and I did well at it. And I kept getting promoted to other markets. You know, I became a sales manager and then a marketing manager and then I got into operations and you know, I was there for quite some time and you know, the company grew during that time. But you know, I just, part of me just loved that entrepreneurial spirit. You know, I was there when they were really small and they started growing and that was just so much fun. I enjoyed that. Nothing wrong with, I mean they're a great company and we do a lot of business with, with them and I've got a lot of friends still there, but I just love the entrepreneurial, small, smaller business type stuff. So I decided to start my own company and we did.

And so you started your own company focused on selling Internet contracts to multifamily investors. Like how did that.

Yeah, so when we first started, ironically, Comcast and Spectrum were our two of our first clients and we were actually a third party representative of theirs to negotiate with property owners. And I guess we did pretty, pretty well because we got enough contracts for them that they said, you know what, we feel like our exposure of unsigned contract is enough for our in house team to handle. So we don't need your services anymore. And so here we are sitting at the, you know, the negotiating table without a partner. So we just decided, well, we have all this experience, we know how it is on this side, let's start representing property owners. And that's what we did. We just sitting at the table, we just slid the chair to the other side and you know, I got to tell you, it's been awesome. It has really been an awesome experience because, you know, there's just so much, there's so much energy on the, on the owner side. You know, a lot of people are getting their first deals under their belts and just getting into it and they're excited and they, you know, I love teaching people things and a lot of people don't understand what we do and why we do it and why it's such an opportunity. So I love talking to people and explaining to them, hey, this is an opportunity. This is, we call it a little known secret or an often overlooked way to improve your noi. And so I don't know, there's just more excitement on this side of the table and we really enjoy it.

Yeah. On the office side in managing properties, my experience has been a lot of like the right of entry type agreements. So we'll have, you know, the fiber connections are such going into our building and the thought is, is that hey, for you to have access to in our building to provide services to our tenants, you have to pay this fixed fee. Is that type of the contracts that you would see on the multifamily side or you know, how do those contracts look, what do those look like and how does that profit sharing or, or fixed, you know, how does that all work in particular on the multifamily side?

Yeah. So I'll use the example of Houston, right? So Comcast has a non exclusive franchise with the city of Houston. Now, contrary to popular belief, Comcast is not the only game in town. A lot of times, because they want to be, the city doesn't give them the exclusive right to operate. Any other company can come in there. The challenge is that this is a very expensive service to deliver, Right. And so, you know, a lot of other companies don't want to come in there to take half the market share. So in Houston, Comcast has the non exclusive right to be on the public rights of way. Now if you're a homeowner there, Wayne, and they come to you and you say, yeah, I want to get Comcast, Internet service, TV service, whatever you want to get, you sign up with them, you are giving them the right to be on your personal property. You as the homeowner are saying, Comcast, yes, I'm giving you permission to be here. So that gives them the right to come off the public easements onto your personal property in the multifamily space. There's one more step in the process. So if I'm, if you own a hundred unit property in Houston and I'm your tenant and I want Comcast service, I can't tell them, hey, it's cool, you can be on Wayne's property. All I can do is say, yes, I'll pay the bill that you send me and I'll subscribe to service. So Comcast needs to come to you, Wayne, the gatekeeper, and get an agreement with you that you allow them on your personal property, even if you're not buying the service for everybody. Even if you're saying, look, I'm just giving you the right of entry, I'm giving you access to these potential residents. I may help you market your services. And in exchange for that, you get paid one of two ways or sometimes both. You either get paid a, what's called a door fee or a signing bonus, which is a one time fee for entering into that agreement and, or you can get revenue share, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's a percentage of the revenue based on, you know, how many people are taking service. So you get a benefit for giving them a benefit, and it doesn't negatively impact your resident. It's not like your residents are charged an extra fee or anything like that. Everybody in the city of Houston, all Comcast customers, there's a rate card. And it's not like a rate card for Wayne's people because we're paying him and a rate card for everybody else. Everybody has the same rate card. Everybody has access to the same publicized promotion. So you're not hurting your residents in any way. If anything, you can make the argument you're helping the residents. Because I know a lot of owners who take that one time fee and they put it and reinvest it in the property. Right. I know somebody who redid their whole pool area with that fee specifically. They're like, we want this money, we want it up front, but we don't want it for us. We want to give it back to the residents. And that's how they did that. So that's how the whole process works. And it works the same with phone companies who are bringing Internet service in there or whoever's bringing any telecommunications type services through wires. You can't do anything like if there's a DirecTV or a dish network because they're, they're not using your personal property. You don't necessarily own the, the airspace, the air above the property. So, so that's the, that's what's called an access agreement. But then you could offer bulk service, which means that you buy for all your residents from comcat at a discount price. And the reason you would do that is possibly for a competitive advantage. Be nice to promote the fact that, hey, move to Wayne's Apartments because, you know, we offer Internet as part of our rent. But also if you're buying the service at a discounted rate and you add it into your rent at a slightly higher rate, you can make more money that way as well. So maybe you're buying for $30 and you're taking your rent from 700 to 750 because the perceived value of Internet service might be 50 or 60 or $70 in your market. So you're actually not only recouping your cost, but you're possibly adding a little bit more to it. And that's another business model. But you know, each property is different so we always recommend. Let's, let's. First thing we do is tell me about your property. We want to learn about your property before we make any recommendations whatsoever.

Yeah. So, you know, for me, and I definitely think it, you know, for long term owners, they take that money up front, reinvest it in the property. For me, it seems like I'm more excited about the ability to grow in a way just like you've done, you know, as I mentioned during your intro in 2021, because at the end of the day, you know, our investors, the more revenue at the larger the noi, the larger the value of the property which benefits, you know, the investors. So I like the idea of buying in bulk and then selling or I guess offering that service to our tenants or our residents. But one of my questions is, can you build that separately? Does that look like it's. You're making a profit? So if cable discounted cable is $30 a month per unit, I'm going to charge it 35. So each unit I'm profiting $5 or I'm benefiting $5 for the NOI. How does that look from an FCC and regulation? To me it seems like you could get in trouble for prop, you know, upselling. So I just curious on that.

Yeah, here's how you look at it and what you described is not exactly how it would work. So when you buy, you buy for 100% of your. Okay, you can't just pick and choose like this guy wants it, this guy doesn't. This, you know, you buy for 100% of your units, thus the bulk. And that's why they can pass on the savings and offer you a lower rate. Because they're not sending trucks out there all their time. They're not, they're billing one person instead of 100. You're going to be more likely to, you know, just billing costs and collections costs and things like that. So now, and there is some downside in that because you know, you are paying for 100% your units every month regardless of whether or not the unit is occupied. You're at 90% occupancy out of 100. You're still paying for the other 10 that aren't having it, aren't receiving it. If people don't want it, don't use it, you're still paying for it. So you have to factor all those things in. And in some cases it can be a great thing. I tell people it's just like having a pool or a workout room. It's an amenity, right? Treat it as an amenity. It's part of your rent because it's an amenity that you offer. So if I'm living in your place and I use the Internet amenity, but I don't go to the workout facility or I don't go to the pool, you've still paid for those things, just like you're paying for this. And if I don't use it, it's not an important amenity for me, but it's still one that you have to pay for and everybody can use if they want to.

Well, it almost like when you sign a lease, if that's the case, it almost needs, regardless if you use it or not, whether you bake it into the rent, as you suggested earlier, so it's not an obvious line item, or you're separating it on the, on the statement as miscellaneous income. My struggle with it in the past is when I'm underwriting properties, it's usually a 30,000 plus. It's a pretty large number on an annual from on the income side or, excuse me, on the expense side. And so the overall percentage of expenses compared to revenue are, you know, 60, 65%, where I like, you know, typically 50, 55%. And so I look at the revenue, I'm like, what's offsetting that expense? And to your point, you know, just a moment ago, is it's like sometimes there's, there's a loss or slippage you're not recovering dollar for dollar. So the first question I'm asking Kevin, usually the broker is how long is the contract for? You know, when can we get out of the contract? Because, you know, I'm losing money and part of the value add is maybe to get out of the contract. So what do you typically tell buyers when they're in that situation? When you're representing a potential buyer, is there a way to renegotiate those agreements or anything from that could help, you know, ease some of that loss if the prior owner got into an agreement that's still on there for two years or more.

Right. So I will tell you this, that it's as important. It's important to find out if there is a bulk agreement if you don't want a bulk agreement, because like you said, it's a fixed expense. I mean, you know, it is absolutely a fixed expense. And which is one of the con to doing something like that, you know, one of the negatives if you can find out and believe it or not. Well, if there's, if there is a bulk agreement like that, you're going to see it in the, in the financials, even if, you know, so there should be automatic red flag that says, hey, here's a contract. I will tell you this, that when people ask me which contract is better, you know, that's their choice. But I will tell you that I've never seen a cable company or Internet company allow a bulk contract to be early terminated in exchange for an access only agreement unless it's bought out. So if you see a bulk agreement in there and you don't want bulk agreements, the only out is typically to require the current owner to buy out of that agreement. If you, you know, I can tell you, and that's if you're undecided, I always tell people, go with the right of access, right of entry because they will terminate that agreement to go bulk, but they won't freely terminate a bulk agreement to go back to right of entry because they want bulk. Bulk is their preferred way of doing business because they, they count 100% of the customers. They, you know, they, you may see that think that they don't make as much money, but they, they do because they're not rolling trucks out all the time. Every time somebody moves in and out and they're only sending out one bill and they've got fewer phone calls and you know, just the operational expenses alone are preferable on a bulk. So therefore the saving more, you know, pretty much offsets it. So yeah, that would be my recommendation.

Yeah. And I think just to recap, and I want to go back to the right of entry, but on the bulk there's pros and cons. Pros being that your property is getting a discounted rate, you're able to put it back into a rent, have some type of profit in theory. In theory, because it's viewed as an amenity. Right. So you're, you have this amenity in doing so. You can, you know, maybe push rents, etc. But the cons of it is, is there's going to be a loss because regardless if you have 100 units and 90 are occupied, you're still paying for 100 units. So if I switch off to the right of entry, if I'M hearing you correctly with that, it's the residents don't have the right to allow a service provider onto the property because they don't own that right. So the. So me as the owner, I have to approve that and in doing so I should be able to negotiate a right of entry fee for them to Compensation.

Yeah, you'd be compensated for that right to be on there. And when we negotiate it we do a right of entry, but we never do an excluding exclusive right. So we don't ever. You're not negatively impacted because you're not taking away choice. Right. If there's a property and there's already providers on there, what we see is if the property is more than 10 years old, the chances are that the. We'll use Comcast for an example because in Houston, right, same same property, it's 12 years old. When they built the property, they, there was an agreement signed with Comcast which means it's probably a 10 year agreement, which means it's been expired for two years or it's in an auto renew period. So we can then go back and negotiate another 10 year agreement. So it's not like they're on there without your, without somebody's permission. They got somebody's permission at the time that property was built or later to be on there. But we see most of the time is these agreements are expired and so they're in an auto renew. I saw an agreement the other day from 1976 and it didn't even have anything to do with Internet. It still had cable TV only on it. So obviously that was a mom and pop who signed the agreement when they first bought the property or built the property. And over time it never occurred to them, they didn't know to go back and do anything. The cable company kept operating and operating and they just didn't know. And so they had gotten to the point in their life where they wanted to, they didn't have anybody to pass it on, you know, so they weren't really creating generational wealth by having, you know, kids that, that wanted to take it over. So, so they were going to retire and sell it and it just never occurred to them that they should, you know, be looking at, you know, those agreements, you know, every so many years. Yeah.

So if you have an old agreement that has expired, the owner would look to a company like yours, you would review that document and then go and negotiate a fee for them to continue. So one, to renegotiate the contract to have a, a current contract in place. But in doing. So you're, you're going after or representing a owner for that revenue, that fee that should be paid on behalf of that company, right?

Yeah, we're, we're so. Yeah. So what we do is the first thing we do when we, when we engage with, with a new is we listen, we want to find out what are their goals, what are their, you know, I mean if you're trying to create generational wealth and that may be a different strategy than look, I'm trying to buy this thing, I've got investors on this thing. I'm going to take this thing from a C to a B and then we're going to sell out and we're going to, you know, we're going to reposition and we're going to, we're going to, you know, pay back the investors. And that's our goal. That's a very different, those are two different, very different situations, right? Very different scenarios. So we want to know what are your goals? And so then what we'll do is we'll go, if they don't have through the due diligence or on file a copy of any agreement that they can give to us, we will then ask them for a letter of authorization that allows us to go to the cable company, the Internet company, the phone company and say, hey, you know, this is our new client that they're, you know, they've purchased this agreement, this, this property. What do you have on file? And oftentimes they, they have things on file. Sometimes they don't even have things on file because like properties, cable companies have been sold over the years, right? So, you know, and doc, they didn't used to be recorded. Some of them are now depending on the location and the providers. And so they, you know, they, they may be able to produce something in which case we can take a look at it, we give it to the owner, we evaluate it and say, is this consistent? Is there an opportunity here? You know, and it may be in the middle of an auto renew period, you know, maybe, you know, it auto renewed on January 1st and here we are on April, April 14th. So we may have to wait for that next auto renew period to kick in to give notice. But usually if it's in an auto renew period or, you know, between 12 and 18 months away from the expiration of a term, we can usually negotiate a new agreement because they want to, you know, they know it's going to happen anytime, you know, in the, in the short term anyhow. So yeah, let's just do it now, got it.

So what size unit properties does this make sense for? Because I would assume, you know, with our single family homes that we've owned and rented, you know, we didn't go, we didn't sign an agreement with Comcast, you know, the tenant just called up. So I assume there's a certain number. What, what is that? And when should somebody really be looking at this as a way to add revenue to their noi?

Well, I will tell you, the sweet spot's a hundred. For some reason, when you get to 100, it's, it's pretty much a lock that there, there will be a contract either expired or current. There will be a contract, there will be an opportunity. In some markets, it depends on the provider, you know, and how competitive is the market and things like that. So I would tell you that if you've got 50 or more, definitely give us a call. We do a free assessment. We don't charge you anything. So that's the unique thing about how we get paid. We only get paid if we make money for you.

Okay.

And we get a percentage of it. So our goals are aligned. Right. You want us to, you want to make money and you want to make as much as possible. We want you to make as much as possible because we get a percentage. The more we bring to the table for you, the greater we get, not greater percentage, but the greater, you know, gross payment. So, yeah, so that's kind of, I always encourage people to engage us as quick as possible. You know, even before closing sometimes we can find things out. We may not be able to get a copy of the contract or anything like that, but sometimes we can say, you know, we can find out, is there a contract, is there not a contract? And you know, so, so is as early as possible.

Yeah. With cable becoming, you know, I still have cable. I, I'm old school, I like the remote, I like to go through, but I've tried the streaming and eventually, maybe one day I'll get fully on board. But is that changing your structure and how your business model works is, or is it just, is cable becoming as demanded in these properties? I mean, obviously Internet is, but where are you seeing cable going over the years and do you feel like that's going to change over time with these providers?

Yeah, I mean, I think, I think it's inevitable that at some point everybody's, you know, doing streaming services and apps and, you know, those sorts of things. But, you know, the pipe, the broadband pipe is absolutely critical to have. Right. So, you know, just when Internet came In Right. Internet was, was down here and cable TV was, was, was up here. And then over time there's been this movement that's, that's taken place. And you know, you gotta believe at some point, you know, it's, you're gonna be hard pressed to find a house without Internet access, you know.

Yeah, we live out in the country and there's this, we have a WI fi tower on the barn that connects. I mean we've got, you know, 30 up, 10 down and it works. We're having a conversation right now through zoom. But yeah, it's hard to imagine that you, you know, I mean, I know obviously many parts of the world don't have Internet, but it's just, you know, it just seems like such a basic thing that, you know, through satellites or during school they were talking, I think Google or some company was doing like these hot air balloons that were, you know, these countries that don't have access to, to Internet. They were, you know, doing these. So it just. Eventually you would think the entire world would have basic Internet, you know.

Yeah, well, yeah, and even in, you know, like you said, out in some of the rural areas, you know, we get consulted with a lot for people who are looking to get service out in those areas. And the government's been very supportive in, you know, in supporting those efforts to increase rural, you know, rural broadband. And so there's a lot of companies that are now, a lot of them are the electric co ops. You know, out in the rural areas there's electric co ops. So they already have the poles, they already have the infrastructure, they already have technicians. So for them they're, you know, a lot of them now are evaluating whether or not they should build broadband systems where there isn't one already.

Yeah, that makes total sense there. All right, so let's talk about the fcc. You had mentioned prior to the show that FCC had a recent ruling that caused some changes. What is that ruling? What are the changes? And then do you see any future FCC changes down the road coming soon?

You know. Yeah, I mean, so on February 15th, the FCC issued a ruling, an order. And it's just going to change how we do business. It's really designed to protect consumers, to not allow any owners to limit choice, you know, for financial wealth, you know, for financial gains, not to eliminate choice. And all the things we've already talked about, some of them will change slightly, but they won't go away. So for example, one of the big things here is, and we mentioned revenue share, right. So a lot of the Revenue share came through what was called exclusive marketing agreements. And the exclusive marketing agreements would oftentimes pay a graduated scale. Right. So, Wayne, in your property, I'll give you 2% of the revenue I get if I only get less than 30 out of 100 customers. But if I get between 30 and 50, I'm going to pay you 4%. So not only are you doubling the number of customers and the amount of revenue, you're doubling the percentage. And let's say you do really good and you get like between 50 and 70, well, maybe I'll give you a couple extra percent and then if you get over 70, maybe I'll give you more. So that's called a gradual graduated revenue scale. That is no longer going to be allowed because the feeling was that they were kind of, you know, pushing people and not letting them choose. So the expectation. And everybody I seem to have talked to said, look, okay, we don't, we can't do graduated. We'll just do a flat rate. We're not going to eliminate the revenue share. And the flat rate will be based on some averages. So, you know, from a, from a, you know, perspective of the owner, it's not going to be a measurable difference in compensation. Door fees will continue, bulk will continue to be available. Revenue share agreements. If you have an exclusive marketing agreement with somebody in place, you can't do an exclusive marketing that prevents another provider from coming in. You can't avoid choice. And then if you do happen to be in an exclusive marketing agreement, you have to disclose so any promotional materials or anything like that. It's got to be a little bit more open book.

Yeah, that makes sense. And so when you, you've mentioned Comcast, and so with the power of choice and, and not limiting it to an exclusive, it just pretty much saying you've got to allow other competitors to enter your building so that the residents have the choice. But in doing so, are you able to, you know, if that, if that's out there from an owner standpoint, they've got to be in my building regardless. I can't turn them away. So my negotiation power. Am I tracking that correct?

They still have to have your permission to be there.

Okay.

I mean, that's still your personal property. It's just a matter of who all is available. You can't like, you know, kick somebody out. I mean, you can't, let's say, and I'm not trying to pick on Comcast, it's just the example we use. I mean, you know, if you have Comcast and AT&T, both in a building and AT&T doing, you know, Internet service and their contracts expiring. And Comcast says, I'll give you, you know, a lot of money to kick them out. You can't do that. You got to continue to allow the choice that's there. And in some markets, there's other companies that are, you know, a third and even a fourth provider. I'm working with a property right now in Huntsville, Alabama. They've got four choices, each of which has one G service or greater available. You know, so, so, so there are those markets, you know, like that as well.

Yeah. Are there certain. Mark, are you covering all markets across the country? Are there certain markets in particular that you prefer? FCC governs the entire United States. Right. So I assume probably the full markets. But what is your territory base or just for those listeners?

We have the ability to do business anywhere. The challenge is if, like, as you mentioned earlier, in some of these rural areas, right, there may be only one choice or there may be a DSL service that's, you know, like 3 meg or something like that. And there may be a cable company that maybe has 100 or 200 meg service, and the cable company is going to be like, well, why should we pay you anything? Because we're really kind of helping you. So it does depend on the competitiveness of the market, what other providers are there, and things like that. I will say that while we have the ability to do business in, in all 50 states, we've not done business for probably a couple reasons. You know, referrals. And, you know, we haven't done business yet in Hawaii or Alaska, but done business in, you know, a lot of the Continental. And, but it just, it comes down to, you know, where our clients are because, you know, we offer referral, referral fees and things like that, so that, you know, we always like, you know, I mean, as, you know, referrals are great. And so we've got a lot of business right now in North Carolina and a lot of business in Texas. You know, some of the other states that seem to be really hot for us or like Tennessee, Indiana, Ohio tend to be, you know, really, really good for us right now.

No, I think this is great. And I think, you know, moving forward, we're, we're on contract for a property in Houston. And I will definitely be in touch. I see a bunch of satellite dishes all over the property. So it makes me think that, you know, there's. We need to really dig in on that and see why or what Agreements are in place. So just a side note, I'll reach out to you afterwards on that. But it's, but I do think it's just something that, you know, like you said earlier, is people getting you involved earlier in that process and just having this type of conversation and getting the awareness out.

Yeah. And Wayne, real quick, let me just walk you through what a process would look like for us to do that. So when you're a new customer, a new client of ours, you've got to say, hey, Kevin, I've got 100 units. All we're going to say is what's the name of the property, what's the primary address? And 100 units. You already said we're going to go do our homework. You're not paying us for any of this. We don't do retainers, we don't do hourly, we don't do anything. And so we're going to go do our due diligence and we're going to come back to you and say, Wayne, here's what we found. We found that there is a contract. There isn't a contract. And here's what we think we can get for you. If you want to move forward and have us get this for you, then that's when we do a contract with you and you say, yes, if I get this, you know, then I'll, I'll pay you and we go from there. If you don't want to do business with us after we've done that free assessment for you, that's fine. That's fine. We're not here to make an hourly rate. We're here to make a long term relationship.

Yeah, I love it. Well, I prepped you earlier, before this call, before the, you know, about your proudest moment, and I asked, normally it's very real estate related, but you can go wherever you want with that. So what is, what's your proudest moment recently?

Well, you know what, Honestly, I hope I haven't had it yet. I hope there's still more to come. I can tell you a personal, very personal proud moment, and that is that on April 1st, I celebrated six years of sobriety. That was pretty cool.

That was really cool.

You know, on real estate, we're involved in real estate right now as a service provider to multifamily properties. But I've got a target of 12 to 24 months where I want to begin to invest passively because I see the upside to it. And I think my proudest moment will probably be when that goal is attained and we Are passive investors.

Yeah, well, you know, do a plug. I do a meetup the first or the fourth Monday of every month. And it's all about educating passive investors. So whenever you do get to that point, you can ask the right questions and know what to look for. So, I mean, that. That's what the syndications. I don't, you know, whether you invest with us or not. But ultimately, it's all about being educated. So take the next two years, like this is your goal, and, you know, continue on that path. So good for you. And congratulations on that. Six years. That's a huge accomplishment.

So thanks. And it's not by coincidence that the business has grown tremendously as well, and my life has gotten better. It's very rewarding. And the best part about it, though, is helping other people for sure.

All right, well, is there anything else you want to talk about on the show? Or if not, how do people reach out to you?

Yeah, we can keep talking if you want. How much time do you have?

You know, my dog's out there starting to get a little antsy, which makes me a little ant fancy because I'm waiting for them to bark and all.

But you know what I've got? I've got one that's running around in the other room, so I can relate.

So two weeks ago, I know, you know, we're still being recorded right now, but I bought eight chicks. Well, so we have chickens, and I have them in my office. Not right now. I moved them into my son's bedroom, but they're getting louder and louder. So between them, and then I've got a great dean in the lab, and. But hopefully in a few weeks, those chickens will be in their coop, not in our house.

There you go. Yeah, I've got a boxer who was running around the sectional in the other room. I could hear her doing that. Hopefully she'll be ready to go to sleep here soon. But best way to reach me, Wayne, is, you know, our website is multifamilyutilitysolutions.com and my email is simply kevin multifamilyutilitysolutions dot com and that'd be great. Drop me an email and just, you know, make sure you have folks say that they heard me on Wayne's show, and that would be awesome.

Yeah, for sure. And I'll reach out to you. I'll send you an email tomorrow about the other deal, but really appreciate your time. And again, thank you so much for being flexible every time I changed the day. You're always so forgiving. And positive. So really appreciate that.

You know what, Wayne? That's one of the things I've learned in business is you have to be, you know, you just. You just have to be. And because it happens. Yeah.

Well, look forward to working with you. And thanks for bringing these insights to our show.

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me on, Wayne. I really thoroughly enjoyed it.

That's all for this episode. We hope you subscribe, share and leave a review of the show. For more information about passively investing in multifamily apartments, check out Wayne's free ebook by going to creipartners. Com Ebook. Also, follow us on Facebook by searching CREI Partners. This was the untold story.